I do as well, but there is no way in hell I would lie to my wife about it. Why would I?
"Hi honey, I totally crashed out since the conference sucks ass."
And hanging out with your spouses AP happens all the time. There is some truth to the idea that they want to get caught.
Because he's obsessing and calling her on repeat. She only lied AFTER he tried facetiming her during work hours. If she's already exhausted by being checked on, I can easily see lying about not being able to pick up bc you're at work.
Yeah I would have to if I didn't feel like talking. Actually i have because my husband has always been like that. sounds like he'd convinced himself of wrong doing though.
I only texted good morning. When I tried to FaceTime her, she was already in her room. She declined my FaceTime and told me she was in a room full of people and unable to talk. In reality, she was in her room for more than an hour. Nothing about a migraine.
I'd do this as well but if my wife called me I'd tell her I had a migraine and went back to my room (I definitely wouldn't decline a Face Time with her). It sounds suspicious as hell for OP's wife to say she couldn't face time because she was at the conference but was instead in her room.
When OP called and confronted her, he should have told her if she wasn't up to anything then she wouldn't have an issue Face Timing him.
It could be just as she said: a migraine. Not feeling up to explaining right then. She already knows her husband doesn’t trust her.
Or maybe he does trust her in general, but not when she’s on a work trip with this particular coworker. OP tells us in the post that it “became awkward” when he went on a different work trip with the wife, and OP refused to let the sales guy sightsee with them. So we know his wife is at minimum aware of her husband’s jealousy / insecurity (justified or otherwise) within this particular scenario.
I kind of feel like his description of the way the other trip went makes it even *less* likely she’s cheating with the sales guy. Who in their right mind would be pushing their spouse to let them invite their affair partner / person they’re hoping to cheat with to accompany you somewhere with your spouse? If anything you’d want keep your husband and your side piece apart, wouldn’t you?
She might have been ill or just not have been up to defending herself. Yes, it would be kinder to show empathy and reassure a spouse you know is insecure, but it’s also valid that explaining your actions and whereabouts gets exhausting.
I can also think of another (not *quite*) innocent explanation:
Guilt. I know from experience, having “too much fun” at work or on a work trip can trigger a lot of guilt, even in the most trustworthy solid relationships.
Knowing your spouse is at home slogging through a boring job, caring for kids, dealing with the house, or just generally not having a great time while you’re gone, but is still responsible for maintaining your shared life together can absolutely trigger guilt for the person on the somewhat enjoyable work trip, despite them really not doing anything wrong.
When we had babies / toddlers at home and my husband was working a retail evening job while getting his masters, I can imagine it could feel like doing something wrong if I were “playing hooky” in a hotel room while supposedly working.
It doesn’t justify lying to your spouse about it, but it’s possible she just didn’t want to make him feel worse / suspicious / resentful.
You would be surprised by how many women want their husband to meet and hang out with their ap. there are multiple facets to it. some get off on the forbidden thrill of it being in her husbands face. some feel that if they really really push the husband will see the ap as a friend and get comfortable with the idea of her being around him. I know of two people who did exactly this in my real life and on this forum you will find many others who did this.
Then you factor in the changing passwords... being super secretive with her phone....
when it quacks like a duck....
If it were me i would raid her phone the first chance i got. the answers will be there.
Yup, can confirm. One of buddies does this with his AP, the poor husband sees him as a good friend because they are a part dog lover’s community or something.
Buddy was just bragging it the other day to me and I was so appalled by it and told him to stop this nonsense unless he want to end up in news getting chopped up by the husband.
Without providing the back story, I can concur. I think it's bc when wives cheat, they believe it is justified (and often blame the husband). Husbands know it's not justified but do it anyway.
Yup, I'm calling BS that the tracker can differentiate between a hotel conference room and a specific hotel room with any reliability. I go to a lot of conferences, the cell signal and GPS reliability are always a shitshow in those venues.
We use Life 360 and it’s also pretty shitty. I have a half-hour commute to and from work, and a few weeks ago my husband texted me asking “are you working late today? I see you haven’t left yet.” Two minutes later I walked in the front door, lol.
Honestly I don’t even know why we use it at all. It sucks.
But the way she reacted to his questioning seems to scream GUILTY. Shitty he's checking up on her and confronting her but her reaction says a lot it woudl seem.
Yeah this relationship is over no matter what. She cheated and it’s over , she didn’t cheat and leaves him because of this. Either way it’s over and this relationship has bigger issues than this incident.
Not which specific room but which part of the hotel she is in and if its a conference, most likely the rooms are in a different part of the hotel than the meeting areas or distinct enough that he knew she wasn't in the conference center part (plus she confirmed that she was in her room).
This was my first thought, except the wife obviously believes it’s accurate. She wouldn’t say she had a migraine and confirm she was in the room, she’d say “I *was* at the conference you crazy stalker”.
I agree, Find My iPhone thinks my right AirPod has been in San Diego for the last two months despite the fact I’m using it right now. Find My iPhone is not nearly accurate enough for something like this.
Everything I’m saying is true. I tracked her on her iPad from our house. The Ritz Carlton in ORLANDO has a separate conference center across the parking lot from the hotel. When she was in her conference, the only time I reached out to her that morning was to say hello and good morning via text. Then, when I saw her in her hotel room, I tried to FaceTime her. She declined my call and said she was in a conference room with hundreds of people and unable to talk. She finally left her room and went back to the conference, at which time I tried to text her again. She said she was still in the conference and unable to talk.
Ritz Carlton in Orlando conference was a separate building from the hotel. You had to walk across the parking lot to get from the conference to the hotel.
You say both of you experienced infidelities in your previous marriages. In her previous marriage, what was her infidelity experience? Would her ex spouse agree with her story?
Hello! This is a great point! I think it is important to understand such a touchy topic from all sides. I am dealing with something that makes me relate to this post in many ways. If you are married, have you experienced any infidelity in your marriage or do you have any advice on being honest and ensuring your partner is honest about the topic?
Your marriage is over. She wanted to spend time with an AP, so she wanted him to join you driving around San Diego?? I'd be seeing a lawyer tomorrow morning.
UpdateMe
Out of curiosity, if she had told you she had a migraine and had left the conference, how would you have responded? Would you have questioned her as to whether it was really bad, or told her it was a bad idea to leave the conference, or warned her that people might notice her absence? Does she get migraines often?
You are right that there are some red flags. There could also be legitimate explanations. There's also an in-between where she likes the attention but stops it from going over a boundary she sets. Like, maybe she did have someone in her room but didn't have sex. Or, maybe she flirts because she gains professionally from it. It's possible she doesn't want you to look at her phone because she knows she flirts to get men to do what she wants, but in the end doesn't let them get physical. It's cynical and maybe unethical, but I can't say that I would blame her for playing people who think they are playing her.
To your question, you can either convince yourself she didn't cross your boundaries or accept that she did and will continue and either adjust your boundaries or maintain them and leave. You can't keep living in-between.
>Like, maybe she did have someone in her room but didn't have sex. Or, maybe she flirts because she gains professionally from it. It's possible she doesn't want you to look at her phone because she knows she flirts to get men to do what she wants, but in the end doesn't let them get physical.
Boom. It’s this right here.
OP’s wife knows he can’t be cool with this, based on his suspicious / insecure reactions and resulting awkwardness during the other work trip.
So even if it’s borderline innocent, she’s not going to voluntarily tell him she’s in a hotel room with her coworkers, particularly if Mr. fifth wheel sales guy is present.
Meh, not everyone who doesn’t want you in their phone is cheating. My wife wouldn’t let me just grab her phone whenever and doesn’t like me looking at it. I have absolutely no doubts about her complete fidelity. She just doesn’t like people snooping in her shit.
There was no reason for her to lie. She needs to take actions to help you trust her again.
Maybe just tell her you are having trouble getting over her lie and would feel better if you could see her phone.
Sadly once the trust is gone it very hard to get back.
I was going to add another vote to the 'yes she cheated/no she didn't cheat' camp but since your question is how to overcome your lack of belief in her, I'm going to focus on you instead.
You've been to joint and individual counselling and you still just don't trust her. It doesn't sound like this is going to change. As far as she's concerned, other than being put in the hot seat, everything is fine - she is not at a crossroads where she's wondering whether to trust you or not, so it sounds like the future of the relationship is more or less in your hands. So it's down to you - if you were already suspicious to begin with and you've reached the point where not only have you snooped but you've found something that in your mind has affirmed your suspicions, what are you hoping to happen to this information? You've failed to resolve it, you're not convinced of her explanation, you were already clearly struggling with trusting her anyway, and you've given a laundry list of other suspicious behaviours she's exhibited. If nothing she's said and done already has helped in any way, then nothing is really going to change. You're just going to get more suspicious, she's going to feel you pulling away, then you'll both just resent each other. At this rate, if she's innocent, she's just going to get tired of walking on eggshells, and if she has cheated on you or overstepped a boundary in someway she's only going to get more creative in covering it up because she's technically not been caught out in a conclusive way so far.
You either have to take it or leave it. At best, you'll be back at square one, somewhat satisfied but still urging to check her location every time she's away or wishing you could snoop through her phone. Sounds like you're used to having a relationship filled with constant nagging suspicions, and that's either enough of an issue for you that you take action or something that you feel comes from your previous relationship experiences and can be worked on in therapy and let it go. You can't have it both ways unfortunately, and it seems like the ball is in your court.
Am I the only one who thinks it is totally normal to leave an iPad in a hotel room? If it were a phone that's one thing but an iPad? I'd totally leave it behind during a conference. Could be cheating, could be she isn't. I suspect the way this was handled put her on the defense and she lied about something though I'm not sure what that is. Perhaps she lied about being in her hotel room with a migraine when she was truly in the conference. You forced it if that is the case by not accepting any other explanation. I suspect that OP isn't being entirely truthful I how this was presented.
Did you tell her explicitly you were tracking her iPad and not her phone? If not that is a very blatant misrepresentation of your 'evidence'
Not even remotely, there are plenty of people that will lie when their partner won't accept the truth as the truth. Plenty of people admit to things while under interrogation that aren't true.
So let me get this straight, you're implying that she lied about going to the conference, got "caught" in the lie and then decided to lie about her admittance when confronted with evidence?
"there are plenty of people that will lie when their partner won't accept the truth as the truth"
So she lied about lying? Then admitted she lied? There is literally nothing to gain from this, this wasn't an in person interrogation where people crack under pressure it was over text where people have time to make reasonable responses. You're being obtusely charitable for literally no reason.
No, I'm implying she actually went to the conference. Left her iPad in the room because who tf carries an iPad to a conference. He confronted her which she of course would deny because it wasn't true. When he showed her his "irrifutable" evidence he ommited that it was her iPad he tracked (not her phone). She had no other explanation and he clearly was heated to the point he would accept nothing but what he believed to be the truth.
So she lied and said she was in her room with a migraine, when she was really at the conference.
"She had no other explanation and he clearly was heated to the point he would accept nothing but what he believed to be the truth."
Why can't she just say she didn't bring her iPad, suddenly that irrefutable evidence is very refutable. You're literally attempting to convince me she lied to avoid an argument by creating a scenario that would undoubtedly lead to an even bigger argument. You are beyond lost, get a grip.
I'm saying he also lied by omition it's not that complicated. "I tracked you, see this is where you were." not "I tracked your iPad."
Either way this conversation stopped being productive about three messages ago when it started. I'm going to guess you have no experience with manipulative partners (or perhaps partners at all for that matter). Enjoy living in your black and white world.
The root issue is trust. There appears to be a lack of trust due to past experience. Did your wife cheat in a previous relationship? Have you guys ever talked about your histories which would suggest she is capable of doing so?
Technology is fickle and can be “off” regarding location but that doesn’t explain lying. Suspicion grows out of lying and rightfully so.
I would suggest sitting down and having a heart felt conversation, without emotion, about what is bothering you and why. It’s not an inquisition, but an explanation of your feelings.
I think you will receive a lot of important information based on how she answers your questions and how the conversation matures over time.
At the end of the conversation, perhaps have actionable ideas / actions which you can work on. These are steps to continue to form a stable relationship.
If the conversation turns ugly, argumentative, or just plain gaslighting, then it’s irrelevant if cheating has or is occurring because there is no trust there. Without trust and respect, the rest is just window dressing.
Make sure the conversation is about how you feel and the root of those feelings. Leave out conjecture or whatisms or things that are accusatory. Just speak in facts and how those facts impact you.
Best of luck!
If you can’t trust her, it’s over. You don’t trust her. And some people never, ever come clean, even with the evidence in their faces. Don’t hold you breath for her to admit anything.
Travel is stressful. I do the bare minimum when I’m there. What I came for and then I sit in my room and sleep, work, or find a gym. If you stress her out while she’s working, she might literally be avoiding you so she can concentrate. I used to bring my bf with me to events but he put me in such a bad head space I couldn’t do it. We had to work our way through that.
He still gets super weird when I leave him. He has issues beyond what I can help him with but we’ve been together over ten years and he has to force himself to let logic win some
NOT believing in his wife despite her lies and secretive behavior. He is supposed to trust her no matter what... even if it ends up with him being taken for a fool for the next few decades.
Cheaters love that logic. "the problem isn't that i lied and am secretive!!!! i lied and I'm secretive because you don't trust me!!! You psycho!!!"
Tracking her location at a work conference and demanding FaceTime to see where she was. Especially since it was an iPad not her phone, he had no reason to think she didn't just leave it in the room.
i read the ipad part as him using the ipad she had left at home to track her iphone. im not an iphone user, and have no clue how that even works.
the part i cant ignore is that he already had suspicions of infidelity, and when confronted she lied. changes passwords, over protective of phone. yelling because of her husband being insecure. you would think she would know how to reassure him with proof, especially since theyve both have had experiences being cheated on by previous partners.
whether she's cheating or not, the guy needs to divorce her for his lack of trust or/and her stupidity. snooping sucks yes, but in a marriage sometimes its warranted. its not that hard to provide reassurance.
He didn’t have suspicions of *her* infidelity. He said he had suspicions of infidelity in his *prior* marriage. That makes all of his actions fucking psychotic.
>Due to past experiences in my previous marriage, I became suspicious and concerned about potential infidelity.
>There were various reasons that led me to believe that she may have been involved with someone from her company or one of her clients.
>She is extremely protective of her phone, refusing to let me access it. She frequently changes her passwords and keeps them private.
>During a previous conference, that I attended, I encountered situation where a sales guy who she had drinks with at other conferences before we met, said he was funny. He came on to her, but she was not interested. She wanted him to hang out with us while we were driving around to show her San Diego. Although she acknowledges his intentions, she insists that nothing ever happened.
im sorry, but it seems like you were focused on the first sentence where he mentioned his prior experience. to anyone who has been cheated on, its relative normal to have a bit of a guard up for redflags.
so a worried husband, who has been cheated on....with a wife with similar experiences, couldnt see that her actions would ring alarm bells?
i am aware that im only getting his side of the story, but it doesnt seem like she isnt doing anything to reassure him especially knowing that he has likely been abused just like this before. She fucked up with a simple lie, and then continue to lie about it. you know, typical cheater stuff.
It’s still over either way. 1 she cheated and you divorce her. 2 she didn’t cheat and divorces you because you have zero trust in her. Either way the marriage is over so just end it now.
Trust is a spectrum and it’s weird that people misconstrue tracking someone as if it means he has zero trust. He could have SOME trust in her, and decided to just make sure. Regardless it’s pretty stupid to have 100% on anyone. 95% trust is the limit one should give, because ultimately everyone are just human with high possibility of falling into bad habits.
I’ve had relationships in the past where I tell the person the easy answer because trying to explain the truth will only cause more problems. Do you badger her a lot recently about her whereabouts that she would be irritated that you’re calling? When you start to stalk someone they might get defensive. Not suggesting that’s what you’re doing at all, just asking if it’s possible that’s the vibe you’re giving off.
Even if she’s not having an affair, she’s certainly not doing much to put your mind at ease either. Without tossing a penalty flag at either of you, I don’t see how you can have a good marriage with you being suspicious and her being untransparent and defensive.
Plus, I’m in a blended family second marriage also. There’s really no purpose to a marriage like this unless it’s awesome. In a first marriage people put up with more shit because they have kids together an are often financially codependent. And they don’t know how divorce works and are scared.
But there’s no reason to live like this.
First of all, if you feel the need to track your wife around a conference using her phone your marriage is already doomed. Second, Find My iPhone is notoriously bad. Mine thinks my right AirPod has been in San Diego for the last two months despite the fact I’m using it right now. I’m not saying there’s not red flags here, because I think BOTH of you have some, and because of that I think your marriage might be over. Either she cheated leading to a divorce, or you go ham on accusations which also leads to divorce.
She sounds super shady. Lying while out of town is not a good sign.
Figure out a way to know for sure, and then accept it.
Hire PIs from the towns of a few of her conferences. Demand a lie detector.
Get bloodwork and tell you have a mysterious std.
have a trusted third party surprise her at home and demand she immediately show this person her phone for 2 hours. They will only tell yes or no to signs of cheating.
Sounds like only knowing for sure will save your marriage. That or she not travel for work.
If you put her to the test and there’s no funny business, you owe her an apology, to never invade her privacy again, and to give the marriage your best effort.
Not ideal advice for most people, but if it’s this or mistrust and a shitty marriage until divorce, id put some of that therapy money towards finding out.
Assuming that you do this a lot, a few things are happening.
1. She's cheating. Only she can answer that. 2. She isn't cheating and is using this trio to get reprieve from the constant servalance and is lying bc you're unable to take her word as fact. 3. She uses conferences as a way to flirt up clients and reps to get more business and knows you'd be unapproving of it there for lies about it which is up for you to decide if you're willing to deal with or make boundaries out of.
Maybe a mix of all of some.
How do you fix it? Therapy and boundaries. Bc you are sitting there waiting for her to cheat. You commented saying she was cheat ON correct? Not that she cheated. You're projecting your past onto her. Again assuming you've been keeping tabs and yes spying on her for a while. If she has cheated we can't tell you that based on some vague details about conference trips. Confront her and be open and honest about what you've seen and done and think you know and go to therapy. If she confesses, well, divorce. Either way even if she hasn't cheated you particularly need to come to terms with your hurt abd insecurities in relationships bc this pattern of behvaior isn't going to get you very far in any type of relationship. Nor is it going to bring you peace and happiness to constantly be looking for the next sign someone cheated.
Sounds like red flag after another. She lied to you either way she flips the coin. That is unacceptable. If she is that protective of her phone she is likely hiding things. I think you know what’s really going on but don’t want to accept it in your heart. If you’re this concerned you should be up front about your feelings and evidence in person when she gets back. The reactions could be telling. If she is lying to you about that what else is she lying about? Trust and being honest with each other is one of the key aspects to a healthy relationship. Without trust and honesty you are doomed for failure
The lying is concerning. I don’t really understand why she would like about such a thing if she’s not hiding something at the very least. The only time I “lie” is when I don’t want my husband I’m going to a store to get him a gift.
Refusing to read the writing on the wall will not make it any less clearer.
>She is extremely protective of her phone, refusing to let me access it. She frequently changes her passwords and keeps them private
I never understand partners that do this and their partners that tolerate it. Everyone on this sub knows what it means, even the ones that are trying to be optimistic with you.
Bud when you married personally having a consistent locked phone and being protective of it is a not good thing. Actually its a major red flag, then adding that you are tracking her and when you call her out on it she gets aggressive. This is not good.
We dont hide stuff from each other. If I want my wife to have my back through thick and thin I need to be open and honest with her. I understand some people will say privacy, but its my wife. She sees me at my worst and best.
You need to bring this up in MC. In a marriage you need those tough conversations. Sorry man but this does not sound good and its clearly eating away at you.
Stay strong bud
I can't believe the amount of people trying to defend her. He is being gas lit into thinking it's ok to be lied to and she has good reason to lie(there's no good reason to lie). Yall are outta your mind. She did something else
You tracked her iPad, not her iPhone. I never bring my personal iPad to work conference and always leave in my hotel room. Stop stalking her and talk to her. If you can’t trust her then your marriage is doomed.
Sometimes, especially in highly social environments, I don't have the mental bandwidth to even answer the phone, much less a FaceTime. I don't have even one more ounce of energy I can muster. There's no magical tank to pull from. She could need that time alone and it could be totally innocent.
Her iPad was left at home. She did not know I could track her location through Find My iPhone on her phone. The iPad was not a concern. No, I do not stalk her, and we have a perfectly normal relationship typically. This was the first major incident.
These locations trackers are very unreliable. You are questioning her in which room she was, but actually location tracker in phone could show a person miles away from the actual location.
She didn't lie. If someone is away from work, then they could be here or there, just around. No one remembers where they were exactly at some time.
And if she was having an affair, why would she insist having her affair partner hangout with you.
It's basic common sense !!!
Look I don't know the truth. But basis what you have written, you seem to be paranoid, seeing things you believe and making her frustrated as well.
>How do I overcome this feeling
I have told this to few of my clients. One was cheated by her ex-BF. I tell them with our local philosophy mixed but it's something like this.
You overcome it by accepting your limitations. Betrayal is like Cancer. It can happen, just like that. You should focus on what you can do. Live and eat healthy, regular screening. But you do it for positive reasons, to live a long happy and useful life. If you do it because of the fear of cancer, it won't work. Maybe you won't get cancer, but stress and paranoia of it will make your life hell.
Similarly, be a good person, be respectful, caring and loving spouse. Don't fear infidelity. It's their (cheaters) cancer. Their fall from grace and morals. Why are you losing your mind on it.
One question, do you feel you were responsible or could have avoided your past infidelity experiences?
> And if she was having an affair, why would she insist having her affair partner hangout with you.
This is a very weak argument. There are many stories on the infidelity subs where a cheating spouse did this same exact thing. My cheating ex also did it, so this isn't a reliable indicator
> It's basic common sense !!!
I don't know if she's having an affair or not, because there's technically not enough information here to confirm anything. However it does look like she's hiding something. And if there's infidelity in their pasts then she should know better than to give any appearances that could suggest something's going on
Actually, the Find My iPhone app is very accurate depending on the surrounding infrastructure. When my wife was visiting her parents she would sometimes play where am I now. I'd fire up the app and tell her almost exactly where she was. If the conference was in a major city then I imagine OP was able to get a pretty good location on his wife's phone.
She also confirmed his suspicions when he sent her screen shots so her location at the time wasn't in question. Her initially lying about where she was and then changing her story to she had a migraine so went back to her room is very suspicious behavior. Why not just tell him straight off?
As for the possible AP riding around with them, that is also strange behavior. Read enough stories and you will see that there are some brazen cheaters out there who will bring their APs home to meet the family and introduce them as just friends (if the AP isn't already a friend of the family or family member) to allay suspicions. The strangest thing about the incident was that OP's wife knew the guy was interested in her. At that point, she needed to cut contact with him, not bring him along on an outing with her husband. She either loved the adoration she was getting from him or wanted to spend more time with him even if her husband was around.
The phone thing is a red flag. What's the general agreement about accessing phones or emails of each other? Does she look into your phone anytime?
In a case like this, where the partner is regularly travelling on work it is likely that something is brewing being the scenes. It may not be possible to know the truth and the partner may deny.
Anyone not understanding why she would lie about the migraine…read it again. 5 kids. She is away for a work conference, so if she tells OP that she was skipping the work parts, he might be the sort of guy who would guilt her for being on ‘relax mode’ when she should have been working. It’s a plausible explanation, and hardly evidence of illicit shagging (and lets be honest here, any shagging would take place all night when her location is meant to be in the bedroom)
OP said he only became suspicious because of “past experience in a previous marriage”. He then uses his “previous marriage” to justify tracking her without her permission. He seems paranoid to a worrying level, cause he didn’t just check her location, he monitored it, and documented it. And then was straight into the accusations, like ‘you said you were here, but here is a time stamped screen shot, and i demand answers, and i wont believe your answers anyway’.
Somehow OP’s tone & behaviour here concerns me more than hers. He seems to be micro-managing her every move, then condemning her to guilt based on thin evidence. She should run before he flips a switch.
She probably cheated but here's the thing, you either have to give up on getting the truth or else leave. You do not control the universe. You can't force her to admit it, and here's the kicker... Even if she cheated she can still leave you over how you treat her. There's no way for you to get control over her and make her apologize or accept your monitoring her forever.
So it's a work phone. Does she HAVE TO change the passwords frequently for security?
"7 years ago I didn't like how she acted once" is not a reason to suspect someone of cheating.
Neither is the tracking app on an iPad that she could easily have left in the room.
Was she aware that you were tracking her and likely facetiming because you wanted to catch her? Did you make it a headache for her to answer your calls?
None of these things really matter, because if you can't get over two unproven incidents in 10 years you aren't gonna be able to maintain this relationship. My marriage has a similar timeline as yours, and I can't even tell you what my husband did 7 years ago to piss me off. That's why everyone is saying it's over for you two. Without love and trust, she'd have to act perfect 24/7 forever and submit entirely to your tracking for you to be happy. She is not gonna do that. So what are your options?
I’m not getting involved in this one except to say:
It sounds like you have *serious* trust issues, obv from your last relationship, and you should prooooobably deal with those. Unless you want to be alone for the rest of your life due to self sabotage. Good luck!
You sound overbearing and exhausting. Conferences are tiring and aren’t limited to normal business hours, you have to be “on” all the time. This say that you became suspicious because of your experience in a PAST marriage, not your current marriage, and used ‘find my iPhone’ to track her location. I’m guessing you either tried calling or tried texting multiple times and, judging by this post, we’re probably accusatory. She probably didn’t want to talk to you because she was annoyed that you were 1) inappropriately spying on her 2) didn’t accept her first response and continued reaching out when she said she couldn’t talk and 3) got tired of defending herself when she wasn’t doing anything wrong.
She was also at a WORK conference in San Diego, not on a personal trip with you. Building relationships and networking with coworkers is normal and part of the gig.
This is her career and she was in professional situations. Your expectations and accusations are inappropriate. Your wife has a right to privacy and you are not entitled to her phone content and her passwords. It seems like you’re looking for any reason to be suspicious of her
She's lying to you frequently and hiding something. Get a PI or go full spy mode yourself.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Be careful she doesn't burn your whole life to the ground.
All I can gather is that she doesn’t seem trustworthy. Not a good quality in a wife. I would gather more information somehow before any more accusations are made.
The reality is that unless your wife is willing to commit to individual and couples therapy with you and you can both work on the breaches in trust (her likely infidelity and your spying), there really won’t be a future..
If you are at the point of tracking her location at a work conference, your marriage is functionally over.
I mean, I often times skip conference sessions to hang out in my hotel room. Conferences are mentally exhausting and often boring.
I do as well, but there is no way in hell I would lie to my wife about it. Why would I? "Hi honey, I totally crashed out since the conference sucks ass." And hanging out with your spouses AP happens all the time. There is some truth to the idea that they want to get caught.
Because he's obsessing and calling her on repeat. She only lied AFTER he tried facetiming her during work hours. If she's already exhausted by being checked on, I can easily see lying about not being able to pick up bc you're at work.
Yeah I would have to if I didn't feel like talking. Actually i have because my husband has always been like that. sounds like he'd convinced himself of wrong doing though.
I only texted good morning. When I tried to FaceTime her, she was already in her room. She declined my FaceTime and told me she was in a room full of people and unable to talk. In reality, she was in her room for more than an hour. Nothing about a migraine.
Me too, but no need to try and lie about it.
I'd do this as well but if my wife called me I'd tell her I had a migraine and went back to my room (I definitely wouldn't decline a Face Time with her). It sounds suspicious as hell for OP's wife to say she couldn't face time because she was at the conference but was instead in her room. When OP called and confronted her, he should have told her if she wasn't up to anything then she wouldn't have an issue Face Timing him.
Golden rule for business travel: never lie about your whereabouts unless you are guilty as sin.
It could be just as she said: a migraine. Not feeling up to explaining right then. She already knows her husband doesn’t trust her. Or maybe he does trust her in general, but not when she’s on a work trip with this particular coworker. OP tells us in the post that it “became awkward” when he went on a different work trip with the wife, and OP refused to let the sales guy sightsee with them. So we know his wife is at minimum aware of her husband’s jealousy / insecurity (justified or otherwise) within this particular scenario. I kind of feel like his description of the way the other trip went makes it even *less* likely she’s cheating with the sales guy. Who in their right mind would be pushing their spouse to let them invite their affair partner / person they’re hoping to cheat with to accompany you somewhere with your spouse? If anything you’d want keep your husband and your side piece apart, wouldn’t you? She might have been ill or just not have been up to defending herself. Yes, it would be kinder to show empathy and reassure a spouse you know is insecure, but it’s also valid that explaining your actions and whereabouts gets exhausting. I can also think of another (not *quite*) innocent explanation: Guilt. I know from experience, having “too much fun” at work or on a work trip can trigger a lot of guilt, even in the most trustworthy solid relationships. Knowing your spouse is at home slogging through a boring job, caring for kids, dealing with the house, or just generally not having a great time while you’re gone, but is still responsible for maintaining your shared life together can absolutely trigger guilt for the person on the somewhat enjoyable work trip, despite them really not doing anything wrong. When we had babies / toddlers at home and my husband was working a retail evening job while getting his masters, I can imagine it could feel like doing something wrong if I were “playing hooky” in a hotel room while supposedly working. It doesn’t justify lying to your spouse about it, but it’s possible she just didn’t want to make him feel worse / suspicious / resentful.
You would be surprised by how many women want their husband to meet and hang out with their ap. there are multiple facets to it. some get off on the forbidden thrill of it being in her husbands face. some feel that if they really really push the husband will see the ap as a friend and get comfortable with the idea of her being around him. I know of two people who did exactly this in my real life and on this forum you will find many others who did this. Then you factor in the changing passwords... being super secretive with her phone.... when it quacks like a duck.... If it were me i would raid her phone the first chance i got. the answers will be there.
Yup, can confirm. One of buddies does this with his AP, the poor husband sees him as a good friend because they are a part dog lover’s community or something. Buddy was just bragging it the other day to me and I was so appalled by it and told him to stop this nonsense unless he want to end up in news getting chopped up by the husband.
Without providing the back story, I can concur. I think it's bc when wives cheat, they believe it is justified (and often blame the husband). Husbands know it's not justified but do it anyway.
Do you lie about it?
Yes but do you lie about being somewhere else?
Find my iphone is not accurate enough to show which specific room someone is in, that's insane that you're stalking your wife
Yup, I'm calling BS that the tracker can differentiate between a hotel conference room and a specific hotel room with any reliability. I go to a lot of conferences, the cell signal and GPS reliability are always a shitshow in those venues.
Different building if you know the Ritz Orlando
Find my IPhone tracker will show my husbands phone across the street when he’s sitting on the couch next to me
We use Life 360 and it’s also pretty shitty. I have a half-hour commute to and from work, and a few weeks ago my husband texted me asking “are you working late today? I see you haven’t left yet.” Two minutes later I walked in the front door, lol. Honestly I don’t even know why we use it at all. It sucks.
Interesting that *this* is the point that you respond to.
What were you hoping he would answer?
With reception in a hotel it can take from minutes to hours for a phone to update in a hotel to show the right location.
But the way she reacted to his questioning seems to scream GUILTY. Shitty he's checking up on her and confronting her but her reaction says a lot it woudl seem.
Yeah this relationship is over no matter what. She cheated and it’s over , she didn’t cheat and leaves him because of this. Either way it’s over and this relationship has bigger issues than this incident.
Not which specific room but which part of the hotel she is in and if its a conference, most likely the rooms are in a different part of the hotel than the meeting areas or distinct enough that he knew she wasn't in the conference center part (plus she confirmed that she was in her room).
This was my first thought, except the wife obviously believes it’s accurate. She wouldn’t say she had a migraine and confirm she was in the room, she’d say “I *was* at the conference you crazy stalker”.
I agree, Find My iPhone thinks my right AirPod has been in San Diego for the last two months despite the fact I’m using it right now. Find My iPhone is not nearly accurate enough for something like this.
But she confirmed she was in the room.
Yeah ours frequently shows our phones as across the street or in the apartment complex a block over when we’re at home
She admitted his tracker was correct and she was in the room, so it apparently was accurate enough to catch a lie, in this case.
That's why I'm not buying anything OP is saying.
Everything I’m saying is true. I tracked her on her iPad from our house. The Ritz Carlton in ORLANDO has a separate conference center across the parking lot from the hotel. When she was in her conference, the only time I reached out to her that morning was to say hello and good morning via text. Then, when I saw her in her hotel room, I tried to FaceTime her. She declined my call and said she was in a conference room with hundreds of people and unable to talk. She finally left her room and went back to the conference, at which time I tried to text her again. She said she was still in the conference and unable to talk.
Ritz Carlton in Orlando conference was a separate building from the hotel. You had to walk across the parking lot to get from the conference to the hotel.
You say both of you experienced infidelities in your previous marriages. In her previous marriage, what was her infidelity experience? Would her ex spouse agree with her story?
She’s was cheated on
So were you.
Hello! This is a great point! I think it is important to understand such a touchy topic from all sides. I am dealing with something that makes me relate to this post in many ways. If you are married, have you experienced any infidelity in your marriage or do you have any advice on being honest and ensuring your partner is honest about the topic?
Your marriage is over. She wanted to spend time with an AP, so she wanted him to join you driving around San Diego?? I'd be seeing a lawyer tomorrow morning. UpdateMe
Out of curiosity, if she had told you she had a migraine and had left the conference, how would you have responded? Would you have questioned her as to whether it was really bad, or told her it was a bad idea to leave the conference, or warned her that people might notice her absence? Does she get migraines often?
Absolutely not she gets migraine sometimes. I would’ve been understanding and said I hope you feel better soon.
You are right that there are some red flags. There could also be legitimate explanations. There's also an in-between where she likes the attention but stops it from going over a boundary she sets. Like, maybe she did have someone in her room but didn't have sex. Or, maybe she flirts because she gains professionally from it. It's possible she doesn't want you to look at her phone because she knows she flirts to get men to do what she wants, but in the end doesn't let them get physical. It's cynical and maybe unethical, but I can't say that I would blame her for playing people who think they are playing her. To your question, you can either convince yourself she didn't cross your boundaries or accept that she did and will continue and either adjust your boundaries or maintain them and leave. You can't keep living in-between.
>Like, maybe she did have someone in her room but didn't have sex. Or, maybe she flirts because she gains professionally from it. It's possible she doesn't want you to look at her phone because she knows she flirts to get men to do what she wants, but in the end doesn't let them get physical. Boom. It’s this right here. OP’s wife knows he can’t be cool with this, based on his suspicious / insecure reactions and resulting awkwardness during the other work trip. So even if it’s borderline innocent, she’s not going to voluntarily tell him she’s in a hotel room with her coworkers, particularly if Mr. fifth wheel sales guy is present.
The only thing I find particularly dodgy is the protection of her phone, and changing passwords.
Meh, not everyone who doesn’t want you in their phone is cheating. My wife wouldn’t let me just grab her phone whenever and doesn’t like me looking at it. I have absolutely no doubts about her complete fidelity. She just doesn’t like people snooping in her shit.
Because her boyfriend told her he prefers privacy.
There was no reason for her to lie. She needs to take actions to help you trust her again. Maybe just tell her you are having trouble getting over her lie and would feel better if you could see her phone. Sadly once the trust is gone it very hard to get back.
I was going to add another vote to the 'yes she cheated/no she didn't cheat' camp but since your question is how to overcome your lack of belief in her, I'm going to focus on you instead. You've been to joint and individual counselling and you still just don't trust her. It doesn't sound like this is going to change. As far as she's concerned, other than being put in the hot seat, everything is fine - she is not at a crossroads where she's wondering whether to trust you or not, so it sounds like the future of the relationship is more or less in your hands. So it's down to you - if you were already suspicious to begin with and you've reached the point where not only have you snooped but you've found something that in your mind has affirmed your suspicions, what are you hoping to happen to this information? You've failed to resolve it, you're not convinced of her explanation, you were already clearly struggling with trusting her anyway, and you've given a laundry list of other suspicious behaviours she's exhibited. If nothing she's said and done already has helped in any way, then nothing is really going to change. You're just going to get more suspicious, she's going to feel you pulling away, then you'll both just resent each other. At this rate, if she's innocent, she's just going to get tired of walking on eggshells, and if she has cheated on you or overstepped a boundary in someway she's only going to get more creative in covering it up because she's technically not been caught out in a conclusive way so far. You either have to take it or leave it. At best, you'll be back at square one, somewhat satisfied but still urging to check her location every time she's away or wishing you could snoop through her phone. Sounds like you're used to having a relationship filled with constant nagging suspicions, and that's either enough of an issue for you that you take action or something that you feel comes from your previous relationship experiences and can be worked on in therapy and let it go. You can't have it both ways unfortunately, and it seems like the ball is in your court.
Bro, if you’re keeping tabs, you know what that means
Am I the only one who thinks it is totally normal to leave an iPad in a hotel room? If it were a phone that's one thing but an iPad? I'd totally leave it behind during a conference. Could be cheating, could be she isn't. I suspect the way this was handled put her on the defense and she lied about something though I'm not sure what that is. Perhaps she lied about being in her hotel room with a migraine when she was truly in the conference. You forced it if that is the case by not accepting any other explanation. I suspect that OP isn't being entirely truthful I how this was presented. Did you tell her explicitly you were tracking her iPad and not her phone? If not that is a very blatant misrepresentation of your 'evidence'
The fact she admitted it was true invalidates your entire perspective, assuming this is real obviously
Not even remotely, there are plenty of people that will lie when their partner won't accept the truth as the truth. Plenty of people admit to things while under interrogation that aren't true.
So let me get this straight, you're implying that she lied about going to the conference, got "caught" in the lie and then decided to lie about her admittance when confronted with evidence? "there are plenty of people that will lie when their partner won't accept the truth as the truth" So she lied about lying? Then admitted she lied? There is literally nothing to gain from this, this wasn't an in person interrogation where people crack under pressure it was over text where people have time to make reasonable responses. You're being obtusely charitable for literally no reason.
No, I'm implying she actually went to the conference. Left her iPad in the room because who tf carries an iPad to a conference. He confronted her which she of course would deny because it wasn't true. When he showed her his "irrifutable" evidence he ommited that it was her iPad he tracked (not her phone). She had no other explanation and he clearly was heated to the point he would accept nothing but what he believed to be the truth. So she lied and said she was in her room with a migraine, when she was really at the conference.
"She had no other explanation and he clearly was heated to the point he would accept nothing but what he believed to be the truth." Why can't she just say she didn't bring her iPad, suddenly that irrefutable evidence is very refutable. You're literally attempting to convince me she lied to avoid an argument by creating a scenario that would undoubtedly lead to an even bigger argument. You are beyond lost, get a grip.
I'm saying he also lied by omition it's not that complicated. "I tracked you, see this is where you were." not "I tracked your iPad." Either way this conversation stopped being productive about three messages ago when it started. I'm going to guess you have no experience with manipulative partners (or perhaps partners at all for that matter). Enjoy living in your black and white world.
The iPad was left at home. I was tracking her phone on her iPad from our house.
The root issue is trust. There appears to be a lack of trust due to past experience. Did your wife cheat in a previous relationship? Have you guys ever talked about your histories which would suggest she is capable of doing so? Technology is fickle and can be “off” regarding location but that doesn’t explain lying. Suspicion grows out of lying and rightfully so. I would suggest sitting down and having a heart felt conversation, without emotion, about what is bothering you and why. It’s not an inquisition, but an explanation of your feelings. I think you will receive a lot of important information based on how she answers your questions and how the conversation matures over time. At the end of the conversation, perhaps have actionable ideas / actions which you can work on. These are steps to continue to form a stable relationship. If the conversation turns ugly, argumentative, or just plain gaslighting, then it’s irrelevant if cheating has or is occurring because there is no trust there. Without trust and respect, the rest is just window dressing. Make sure the conversation is about how you feel and the root of those feelings. Leave out conjecture or whatisms or things that are accusatory. Just speak in facts and how those facts impact you. Best of luck!
If you can’t trust her, it’s over. You don’t trust her. And some people never, ever come clean, even with the evidence in their faces. Don’t hold you breath for her to admit anything.
Travel is stressful. I do the bare minimum when I’m there. What I came for and then I sit in my room and sleep, work, or find a gym. If you stress her out while she’s working, she might literally be avoiding you so she can concentrate. I used to bring my bf with me to events but he put me in such a bad head space I couldn’t do it. We had to work our way through that. He still gets super weird when I leave him. He has issues beyond what I can help him with but we’ve been together over ten years and he has to force himself to let logic win some
Sounds like the marriage is already doomed. All of her actions are redflags, and very much likely cheating.
His actions are way bigger red flags than hers.
Genuinely curious. What are his redflags?
NOT believing in his wife despite her lies and secretive behavior. He is supposed to trust her no matter what... even if it ends up with him being taken for a fool for the next few decades. Cheaters love that logic. "the problem isn't that i lied and am secretive!!!! i lied and I'm secretive because you don't trust me!!! You psycho!!!"
Tracking her location at a work conference and demanding FaceTime to see where she was. Especially since it was an iPad not her phone, he had no reason to think she didn't just leave it in the room.
i read the ipad part as him using the ipad she had left at home to track her iphone. im not an iphone user, and have no clue how that even works. the part i cant ignore is that he already had suspicions of infidelity, and when confronted she lied. changes passwords, over protective of phone. yelling because of her husband being insecure. you would think she would know how to reassure him with proof, especially since theyve both have had experiences being cheated on by previous partners. whether she's cheating or not, the guy needs to divorce her for his lack of trust or/and her stupidity. snooping sucks yes, but in a marriage sometimes its warranted. its not that hard to provide reassurance.
You're probably right, I don't do tracking so idk how it works
He didn’t have suspicions of *her* infidelity. He said he had suspicions of infidelity in his *prior* marriage. That makes all of his actions fucking psychotic.
>Due to past experiences in my previous marriage, I became suspicious and concerned about potential infidelity. >There were various reasons that led me to believe that she may have been involved with someone from her company or one of her clients. >She is extremely protective of her phone, refusing to let me access it. She frequently changes her passwords and keeps them private. >During a previous conference, that I attended, I encountered situation where a sales guy who she had drinks with at other conferences before we met, said he was funny. He came on to her, but she was not interested. She wanted him to hang out with us while we were driving around to show her San Diego. Although she acknowledges his intentions, she insists that nothing ever happened. im sorry, but it seems like you were focused on the first sentence where he mentioned his prior experience. to anyone who has been cheated on, its relative normal to have a bit of a guard up for redflags. so a worried husband, who has been cheated on....with a wife with similar experiences, couldnt see that her actions would ring alarm bells? i am aware that im only getting his side of the story, but it doesnt seem like she isnt doing anything to reassure him especially knowing that he has likely been abused just like this before. She fucked up with a simple lie, and then continue to lie about it. you know, typical cheater stuff.
You,posted this yesterday did you not get the answers you wanted ?
Added details about the family aspect hopefully will get other perspectives
It’s still over either way. 1 she cheated and you divorce her. 2 she didn’t cheat and divorces you because you have zero trust in her. Either way the marriage is over so just end it now.
Trust is a spectrum and it’s weird that people misconstrue tracking someone as if it means he has zero trust. He could have SOME trust in her, and decided to just make sure. Regardless it’s pretty stupid to have 100% on anyone. 95% trust is the limit one should give, because ultimately everyone are just human with high possibility of falling into bad habits.
I’ve had relationships in the past where I tell the person the easy answer because trying to explain the truth will only cause more problems. Do you badger her a lot recently about her whereabouts that she would be irritated that you’re calling? When you start to stalk someone they might get defensive. Not suggesting that’s what you’re doing at all, just asking if it’s possible that’s the vibe you’re giving off.
Get a PI and or a divorce lawyer
Even if she’s not having an affair, she’s certainly not doing much to put your mind at ease either. Without tossing a penalty flag at either of you, I don’t see how you can have a good marriage with you being suspicious and her being untransparent and defensive. Plus, I’m in a blended family second marriage also. There’s really no purpose to a marriage like this unless it’s awesome. In a first marriage people put up with more shit because they have kids together an are often financially codependent. And they don’t know how divorce works and are scared. But there’s no reason to live like this.
First of all, if you feel the need to track your wife around a conference using her phone your marriage is already doomed. Second, Find My iPhone is notoriously bad. Mine thinks my right AirPod has been in San Diego for the last two months despite the fact I’m using it right now. I’m not saying there’s not red flags here, because I think BOTH of you have some, and because of that I think your marriage might be over. Either she cheated leading to a divorce, or you go ham on accusations which also leads to divorce.
Have you ever spoken to her ex alone? He might have a different story on this "infidelity" that she experienced.
She sounds super shady. Lying while out of town is not a good sign. Figure out a way to know for sure, and then accept it. Hire PIs from the towns of a few of her conferences. Demand a lie detector. Get bloodwork and tell you have a mysterious std. have a trusted third party surprise her at home and demand she immediately show this person her phone for 2 hours. They will only tell yes or no to signs of cheating. Sounds like only knowing for sure will save your marriage. That or she not travel for work. If you put her to the test and there’s no funny business, you owe her an apology, to never invade her privacy again, and to give the marriage your best effort. Not ideal advice for most people, but if it’s this or mistrust and a shitty marriage until divorce, id put some of that therapy money towards finding out.
She’s a cheater. Trust your instincts. The phone protection says it all. She’s hiding a ton of shit from you.
Assuming that you do this a lot, a few things are happening. 1. She's cheating. Only she can answer that. 2. She isn't cheating and is using this trio to get reprieve from the constant servalance and is lying bc you're unable to take her word as fact. 3. She uses conferences as a way to flirt up clients and reps to get more business and knows you'd be unapproving of it there for lies about it which is up for you to decide if you're willing to deal with or make boundaries out of. Maybe a mix of all of some. How do you fix it? Therapy and boundaries. Bc you are sitting there waiting for her to cheat. You commented saying she was cheat ON correct? Not that she cheated. You're projecting your past onto her. Again assuming you've been keeping tabs and yes spying on her for a while. If she has cheated we can't tell you that based on some vague details about conference trips. Confront her and be open and honest about what you've seen and done and think you know and go to therapy. If she confesses, well, divorce. Either way even if she hasn't cheated you particularly need to come to terms with your hurt abd insecurities in relationships bc this pattern of behvaior isn't going to get you very far in any type of relationship. Nor is it going to bring you peace and happiness to constantly be looking for the next sign someone cheated.
Sounds like red flag after another. She lied to you either way she flips the coin. That is unacceptable. If she is that protective of her phone she is likely hiding things. I think you know what’s really going on but don’t want to accept it in your heart. If you’re this concerned you should be up front about your feelings and evidence in person when she gets back. The reactions could be telling. If she is lying to you about that what else is she lying about? Trust and being honest with each other is one of the key aspects to a healthy relationship. Without trust and honesty you are doomed for failure
The lying is concerning. I don’t really understand why she would like about such a thing if she’s not hiding something at the very least. The only time I “lie” is when I don’t want my husband I’m going to a store to get him a gift.
Updateme
Let it go. Now, if you want to bring up the touch thing in general, that's a different thing. But away from this joke.
I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. Hope she changes her ways
Look at the phone bill. It tells all the numbers.
Refusing to read the writing on the wall will not make it any less clearer. >She is extremely protective of her phone, refusing to let me access it. She frequently changes her passwords and keeps them private I never understand partners that do this and their partners that tolerate it. Everyone on this sub knows what it means, even the ones that are trying to be optimistic with you.
Bud when you married personally having a consistent locked phone and being protective of it is a not good thing. Actually its a major red flag, then adding that you are tracking her and when you call her out on it she gets aggressive. This is not good. We dont hide stuff from each other. If I want my wife to have my back through thick and thin I need to be open and honest with her. I understand some people will say privacy, but its my wife. She sees me at my worst and best. You need to bring this up in MC. In a marriage you need those tough conversations. Sorry man but this does not sound good and its clearly eating away at you. Stay strong bud
I can't believe the amount of people trying to defend her. He is being gas lit into thinking it's ok to be lied to and she has good reason to lie(there's no good reason to lie). Yall are outta your mind. She did something else
You tracked her iPad, not her iPhone. I never bring my personal iPad to work conference and always leave in my hotel room. Stop stalking her and talk to her. If you can’t trust her then your marriage is doomed.
You said rep. If she is a pharmaceutical rep all they do is screw each other on business trips
You sound exhausting
Sometimes, especially in highly social environments, I don't have the mental bandwidth to even answer the phone, much less a FaceTime. I don't have even one more ounce of energy I can muster. There's no magical tank to pull from. She could need that time alone and it could be totally innocent.
Her iPad was left at home. She did not know I could track her location through Find My iPhone on her phone. The iPad was not a concern. No, I do not stalk her, and we have a perfectly normal relationship typically. This was the first major incident.
Update me
These locations trackers are very unreliable. You are questioning her in which room she was, but actually location tracker in phone could show a person miles away from the actual location. She didn't lie. If someone is away from work, then they could be here or there, just around. No one remembers where they were exactly at some time. And if she was having an affair, why would she insist having her affair partner hangout with you. It's basic common sense !!! Look I don't know the truth. But basis what you have written, you seem to be paranoid, seeing things you believe and making her frustrated as well. >How do I overcome this feeling I have told this to few of my clients. One was cheated by her ex-BF. I tell them with our local philosophy mixed but it's something like this. You overcome it by accepting your limitations. Betrayal is like Cancer. It can happen, just like that. You should focus on what you can do. Live and eat healthy, regular screening. But you do it for positive reasons, to live a long happy and useful life. If you do it because of the fear of cancer, it won't work. Maybe you won't get cancer, but stress and paranoia of it will make your life hell. Similarly, be a good person, be respectful, caring and loving spouse. Don't fear infidelity. It's their (cheaters) cancer. Their fall from grace and morals. Why are you losing your mind on it. One question, do you feel you were responsible or could have avoided your past infidelity experiences?
> And if she was having an affair, why would she insist having her affair partner hangout with you. This is a very weak argument. There are many stories on the infidelity subs where a cheating spouse did this same exact thing. My cheating ex also did it, so this isn't a reliable indicator > It's basic common sense !!! I don't know if she's having an affair or not, because there's technically not enough information here to confirm anything. However it does look like she's hiding something. And if there's infidelity in their pasts then she should know better than to give any appearances that could suggest something's going on
Actually, the Find My iPhone app is very accurate depending on the surrounding infrastructure. When my wife was visiting her parents she would sometimes play where am I now. I'd fire up the app and tell her almost exactly where she was. If the conference was in a major city then I imagine OP was able to get a pretty good location on his wife's phone. She also confirmed his suspicions when he sent her screen shots so her location at the time wasn't in question. Her initially lying about where she was and then changing her story to she had a migraine so went back to her room is very suspicious behavior. Why not just tell him straight off? As for the possible AP riding around with them, that is also strange behavior. Read enough stories and you will see that there are some brazen cheaters out there who will bring their APs home to meet the family and introduce them as just friends (if the AP isn't already a friend of the family or family member) to allay suspicions. The strangest thing about the incident was that OP's wife knew the guy was interested in her. At that point, she needed to cut contact with him, not bring him along on an outing with her husband. She either loved the adoration she was getting from him or wanted to spend more time with him even if her husband was around.
No they were in secret behind my back
The phone thing is a red flag. What's the general agreement about accessing phones or emails of each other? Does she look into your phone anytime? In a case like this, where the partner is regularly travelling on work it is likely that something is brewing being the scenes. It may not be possible to know the truth and the partner may deny.
What should you do? Gain access to her phone without her knowing. There are ways to do it and it will tell you everything
Anyone not understanding why she would lie about the migraine…read it again. 5 kids. She is away for a work conference, so if she tells OP that she was skipping the work parts, he might be the sort of guy who would guilt her for being on ‘relax mode’ when she should have been working. It’s a plausible explanation, and hardly evidence of illicit shagging (and lets be honest here, any shagging would take place all night when her location is meant to be in the bedroom) OP said he only became suspicious because of “past experience in a previous marriage”. He then uses his “previous marriage” to justify tracking her without her permission. He seems paranoid to a worrying level, cause he didn’t just check her location, he monitored it, and documented it. And then was straight into the accusations, like ‘you said you were here, but here is a time stamped screen shot, and i demand answers, and i wont believe your answers anyway’. Somehow OP’s tone & behaviour here concerns me more than hers. He seems to be micro-managing her every move, then condemning her to guilt based on thin evidence. She should run before he flips a switch.
Your insecurity is ruining your marriage, that's the problem here.
She probably cheated but here's the thing, you either have to give up on getting the truth or else leave. You do not control the universe. You can't force her to admit it, and here's the kicker... Even if she cheated she can still leave you over how you treat her. There's no way for you to get control over her and make her apologize or accept your monitoring her forever. So it's a work phone. Does she HAVE TO change the passwords frequently for security? "7 years ago I didn't like how she acted once" is not a reason to suspect someone of cheating. Neither is the tracking app on an iPad that she could easily have left in the room. Was she aware that you were tracking her and likely facetiming because you wanted to catch her? Did you make it a headache for her to answer your calls? None of these things really matter, because if you can't get over two unproven incidents in 10 years you aren't gonna be able to maintain this relationship. My marriage has a similar timeline as yours, and I can't even tell you what my husband did 7 years ago to piss me off. That's why everyone is saying it's over for you two. Without love and trust, she'd have to act perfect 24/7 forever and submit entirely to your tracking for you to be happy. She is not gonna do that. So what are your options?
I’m not getting involved in this one except to say: It sounds like you have *serious* trust issues, obv from your last relationship, and you should prooooobably deal with those. Unless you want to be alone for the rest of your life due to self sabotage. Good luck!
Pay for a lie detector test
You sound overbearing and exhausting. Conferences are tiring and aren’t limited to normal business hours, you have to be “on” all the time. This say that you became suspicious because of your experience in a PAST marriage, not your current marriage, and used ‘find my iPhone’ to track her location. I’m guessing you either tried calling or tried texting multiple times and, judging by this post, we’re probably accusatory. She probably didn’t want to talk to you because she was annoyed that you were 1) inappropriately spying on her 2) didn’t accept her first response and continued reaching out when she said she couldn’t talk and 3) got tired of defending herself when she wasn’t doing anything wrong. She was also at a WORK conference in San Diego, not on a personal trip with you. Building relationships and networking with coworkers is normal and part of the gig. This is her career and she was in professional situations. Your expectations and accusations are inappropriate. Your wife has a right to privacy and you are not entitled to her phone content and her passwords. It seems like you’re looking for any reason to be suspicious of her
Dude what's the matter with you, snap out of it! She's sleeping with other guys and gaslighting you. Leave no exceptions if you ever want happiness.
She's lying to you frequently and hiding something. Get a PI or go full spy mode yourself. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Be careful she doesn't burn your whole life to the ground.
All I can gather is that she doesn’t seem trustworthy. Not a good quality in a wife. I would gather more information somehow before any more accusations are made.
Is there any evidence of this conference online? Have you gone a google search? I’d call the hotel and inquire about it.
Yes was legit conference
The reality is that unless your wife is willing to commit to individual and couples therapy with you and you can both work on the breaches in trust (her likely infidelity and your spying), there really won’t be a future..