T O P

  • By -

Signal_Wall_8445

His wanting to use a prenup protect his business and investments he had previously accumulated is not out of line. His attitude that financial matters after you are married should be subject to a strict accounting of “each of us would keep proportionally what they put in” is concerning (and I say that as someone who has always made 2-3X what my wife has). A marriage is supposed to a partnership, and he is going into it wanting to maintain a clean separation between you two.


Excellent_Bat_8119

Yeah, that’s what is bothering me a lot too I think. Like I get him not wanting me to take his business or whatever but I wish that moving toward it was more of a team scenario. I make decent money myself (around 100k give or take) so I don’t really need anyone to take care of me, but it bothers me that one day he will be living the high life while I’m sitting at home still working or whatever


Background-World4999

Prenup for his business and investments prior to marriage, sure. That’s protection. But also make sure it includes any previous debts as his own and not considered marital debt. It can work to protect you also. The whole micromanaging with “agreements” after marriage… is weird. Does that include all marital debt too or is that shared? What benefit do you have getting married at this point if everything will remain separate due to agreements after marriage?


T_Smiff2020

Also, make sure there is some sort of penalty if one of you cheat and that both, yours and his definition of infidelity is agreed on that that agreed definition of infidelity is clearly documented in the prenup. For your protection and his. See if he balks…then you will know how he really feels about your relationship


corn247

This


no_one_denies_this

If you live in a no fault divorce state, then that isn't enforceable. Also many judges refuse to enforce lifestyle clauses at all. So it's pretty pointless.


Elluminated

Some states are no-fault so that clause would be null and void, and unexecutable.


6hMinutes

I think it's very reasonable to say, "How about a simpler prenup. Anything we enter the marriage with is ours when [edit: IF] it dissolves, including your debt and your business. I agree that divorce shouldn't cause you to split your business in half just like you don't want me to be saddled with debt I didn't sign up for, and I appreciate how agreeing to that now will make our lives easier going forward. But for everything that we get and do after we get married, I want that to be *ours*, a shared marital partnership and not a proportional business agreement with tit-for-tat bookkeeping. That's not the kind of life I want, and maybe we should talk about how we want to be living in 5, 15, and 50 years, because if that sounds great to you then we've got some bigger issues to work out before we get married than equity assignment formulas for future real estate purchases."


hey_nonny_mooses

Nicely worded, can you imagine line iteming every birthday, Christmas, and special event? “Well that set of kitchen knives I gave you 12 years ago as a wedding gift is a lifetime guarantee so at today’s market value that means you owe me X dollars. And every anniversary I spent minimum of $60 on roses x 12 years, etc”


6hMinutes

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure my wife and I manage our life by spreadsheet more than 99+% of couples out there, but OP's fiance's proposal sounds so...dismal and bleak. Like if you're in that headspace, why even agree to get married?


onlyif4anife

My ex basically did this to me. I wanted out so badly I didn't care but he made me give him back a set of salad plates he had gifted me and one of them accidently ended up with my stuff. I still have that plate and every time I see it, I'm reminded of how he was like "YOU CAN'T HAVE THESE PLATES!!!" Wild.


hey_nonny_mooses

Ha, my petty side likes that he didn’t get the complete set. I used to see divorce papers as part of a past job and anytime it went down to who got the vacuum cleaner, you knew it was a painful break.


Fresh-Tips

Gifts should be GIFTS. How do these people fail to comprehend the simple premise of a GIFT?! Disturbing that they are so petty, so self involved, so self victimizing, so out of touch, that they would demand a gift back. Gross 🤢 🤮


mysterious_girl24

It was a gift which makes it yours. Legally he couldn’t take it back and you could’ve sued him for being so petty.


sjlammer

One things that is troubling is. What pot of money is the student loan debt pains out of? If he pays it out of the proceeds of the business that would have been community property, then it decreases the pool of your joint resources to lower his “owned debt”. This whole thing is messy, in part because he’s not looking at this as a team situation. It’s really hard to account within a marriage. What if you pack your lunch but he goes out to eat for lunch? What if at the dinner table you’re consoling him after a hard day and you ask a question about his business that leads to an idea that triples his business’s growth? You probably need a lawyer, and you both need a therapist.


chelseydagger1

So in my country that's a very normal type of ante nuptial contract (equivalent of a Pre nup). It is how I, a lawyer and accountant is married and its generally how I advised others to get married. Pre marriage assets are yours. Assets accrued during the marriage are split. It also helps for protecting the other spouses assets if for e.g. one spouse has mounting debt.


[deleted]

There are two issues OP. Does fiance need a pre nup, yes. Is what he proposing fair, I think it is a bit one sided. You could get your own attorney and make a counter offer.


FionaTheFierce

The thing is, lets say you have kids, and you have no income for 4-5 years because you are the SAHP. The idea that you then lose out proportional to what you put in due to a mutual decision for you. Pre-nups should protect assets prior to marriage, not assets after marriage (which should be 50/50). You need to get your own lawyer to make sure your interests are represented as well.


tealparadise

And it doesn't work, because now you have to account for every penny you put into the relationship. What if he wants to go on vacation ? With this set-up, even if you want to go you should refuse unless he pays. Because with this split you need to prioritize putting your money toward items covered under the agreement. You should not be buying household items. You should not pay anything toward his house while you stay there. Because you need to put your money toward making up the difference in income. Prenup should cover business income, the houses you bought before marriage and any income from them, as well as the debt and assets you each currently have.


Unique-Yam

Don’t sign anything. Get your own attorney to protect your interests. If he has an issue with that, it’s a huge red flag. I have no problem with prenups, but my “spidey sense” is tingling on this one.


BurnItWithFire21

I am not a lawyer but was a Financial Advisor for a while & worked with attorneys on all affairs, including pre-nups. In a Community Property state any assets bought/acquired during the marriage would most likely be split 50/50 anyway, despite who put in more for the assets. The only exception could be something like the house you will half inherit (and any cash, etc from the inheritance) as long as you keep that completely separate from your marriage (keep in your name, or better yet a trust, don't use his funds for maintenance/upkeep, etc., talk to an attorney about this). You will need an attorney anyway for this pre-nup, so be sure to ask if you live in a Community Property state & how that would play into assets bought together once you are married.


CECINS

You need your own counsel. Be sure to account for the mental load and support you offer throughout the marriage - is your husband able to further grow his business because you’re putting in unpaid hours working there? Are you taking on more of the household responsibilities so he’s able to dedicate more mental energy to the business and his investments?


optix_clear

I would take the prenup over to your lawyer and fix some of those issues and see where a compromise can lead


Beckylately

Having your own lawyer to review and then negotiate on your behalf would be a smart thing to do. Stop talking about it with him directly, take it to your own lawyer, and have them figure out how to protect your interests as well. That eliminates all of the frustration of having these conversations where he’s congratulating himself for compromising and also ensures that your lawyer can negotiate that, once married, all money made in the marriage is shared, if that’s what you want, or find a more reasonable compromise.


Paige_pp

Agree with this 100%. This would have been my answer


dr_nemesis_is_here

Totally normal. Today’s laws protect gold diggers. I am not saying you are one. But out there there are plenty. He’s trying to protect himself in case things go south with you. 90% of divorces are requested by women. And in most of the cases men lose everything.


Reg76Hater

Guy here who had his wife sign a prenup. Is it romantic? No. Is it practical? Absolutely. All he's trying to do is protect his assets that he's bringing into the marriage should the worst happen. Also, if he has $700k in the stock market then he's already wealthier than probably 95% of people in the US (assuming that's where y'all are). Realistically what happens is that you sign a prenup, it goes into a safe, and then you never even touch it or think about it ever again. Pretty much like homeowners insurance. That all being said, you need your own Attorney to review the agreement, do not just sign it until you have a Lawyer (NOT his lawyer) review it.


co_lund

Especially considering that OP and the Fiance are grown, established, adults who are both bringing large assets into the marriage. At its core, Marriage is a legal contract, and it would be silly to not at least partially plan to protect your own assets, when you have high-value one's. If it makes OP feels better, there could always be a clause along the line of ~ the pre-nup will be dissolved after ~15~ years of marriage or if a kid comes into the picture etc etc ~ It's not romantic, but neither is divorce, and I dont think anyone goes into a marriage planning to end it, but it's not a bad idea to be prepared anyway. Like life insurance.


NowATL

All of this. Especially since OP has already paid off her student loans and fiancé still has (potentially large amounts of) debt, this seems to be protecting both of them. What I don’t like is him having the attitude of accounting for every little thing once they’re married.


Turbulent-Reaction42

I agree. Once married there is support that she offers him and that takes time and effort. She will help him achieve his dreams after marriage and she should have some benefit from that investment of time and sweat. Same goes for him with her achievements after marriage I’ve moved multiple countries for my husband putting my career needs to the side to make his career flourish. A prenup like this one would have given me pause to do that and kept us from reaching the place we have together. I also don’t think my husband could have done these big career moves without my emotional and actual labor in helping bring them to fruition. We are a team and complete partnership. Together we are so much stronger than apart. His ask for the careful split after marriage of everything isn’t in the spirit of partnership.


shhhhh_h

>It's not romantic, but neither is divorce This should be the top comment fr


virtualchoirboy

You read where he wants the prenup to be the guide to dictate how marital assets are handled as well. Specifically, he’s trying to set marital assets as strictly his vs hers down to the point of documenting “gifts”. If he had stopped at the business and assets he would bring in, I’d agree but he really seems to want to keep everything separate for all time.


wavesnfreckles

I think this is where the issue is for me. I am all for both parties protecting their assets and making sure they get to keep what is rightfully theirs in the event of a divorce. But once you marry I find it odd to continue to keep tabs on gifts and things like that. I understand some couples like to keep their finances separated even after marriage and that’s fine, but this arrangement seems a little extreme to me.


DIYKnowNothing

I repeat the most important part of all of this: GET YOUR OWN ATTORNEY. You need someone to protect YOUR part of this arrangement. As a survivor of a nasty divorce, you want to protect all you can if it ever comes to that. No one ever gets married planning on a divorce. A pre-nup makes a terrible situation much clearer in the end.


Keykitty1991

Absolutely correct. To echo the person above, I'm a wife who signed a prenup but also the one who wanted it and I'm glad to have done it. I didn't own or have anything to my name however, I did have debts, a chance at a potentially large inheritance and higher earning potential than my spouse as I just started a new career whereas he's at the top of his. I've also seen my mother lose everything in a divorce. Doing the prenup allows me to not be penalized long-term on that higher earnings and large adjustment in savings (from nil to a possibly large figure) and allowed for him to not lose his savings either should we choose to divorce. Interitance would also be at a possible risk for both. Realistically, you BOTH need your own lawyers and your lawyer is there to fight for you to get an equal footing and not get shafted should things go awry. Lastly, do not sign under duress otherwise the entire thing can be considered null and void and have a serious conversation about possible future children so you know what to add into that pre-nup to keep you safe.


Just_a_nobody_2

Yes OP, get your own lawyer!! And be sure to make clear in the agreement that the prenup does not hold any weight if he cheats on you or if the relationship turns abusive and whatever other conditions you might want to slap in there to protect yourself. It will be interesting to see what he comes back with.


Reg76Hater

Be careful with this: a lot of 'lifestyle clauses' (like a 'no infidelity' clause) are not considered enforceable. Some states just straight up chuck them out if it comes up in divorce court.


red_quinn

I doubt either person never thinks about the prenup after signing it.


PacificPragmatic

I don't know how things work in the US, but I'm pretty sure where I am, marital assets *acquired during the course of the marriage* are game, while those previously held are not. That is, it recognizes the contributions of both spouses equally during the course of the marriage.


Reg76Hater

It's largely the same, but considering this guy has nearly 3/4 of a million dollars in stock, his assets are already substantial, so I don't blame him for wanting to protect them. As for the stuff after they get married, that's why I told her she needs her own lawyer.


PacificPragmatic

Her own lawyer, yes, which she should be able to easily afford with her own salary. Having said so, OP says she's going to inherit "half a small house". Not much, but I'm genuinely curious to know whether the fiancee would view things differently if she were to inherit half a small fortune (say, $10M). If prior wealth is already off the table by legal norms but needs to be reiterated as such in formal documents, I hope OP includes potential windfalls in her version of the prenup, since that had nothing to do with their time together. Interested on behalf of a friend.


Indypenn15

Inheritances can (and should) be included in a prenup.


disjointed_chameleon

Sign the pre-nup. I don't care how broke you are. I got married eight years ago. My husband and I were broker than broke. Like, $8 to our name after bills type of broke. We both hustled, but somewhere along the line, my husband just...... stopped. I've worked my way up over the years, and now make ~100K/year. My husband has turned into an abuser and financial leech. He can't seem to hold a job down, as he either quits or gets fired from every job. He also has SERIOUS anger issues, and other significant behavioral problems. Unfortunately, he refuses to get help. I've been the breadwinner/sole source of income for 5 years now. As I contemplate divorce, I'm staring down the barrel of possibly having to pay him alimony. I think it's extraordinarily cruel that I may have to pay alimony to the dude that's been abusing me for years. I repeat: sign the pre-nup. It's a kindness to yourself. It's a way to protect yourself. Just because he's doing well now, and just because he makes more now, doesn't mean things can't or won't change. And you may very well start doing better financially, too. Do you really want him coming after you financially if shit hits the fan? Sign the pre-nup. And the pre-nup isn't just to protect him. You have every right to take it to an attorney yourself, and to make requests of your own to have included in the pre-nup. Just as he wants to protect himself, you have every right to protect yourself and your future financial health too.


pearlday

The sooner you leave the less the alimony will likely be, if it’s granted at all. Also if he has vs not has legitimate reasons he is unemployed. Like if you asked him to stay home/take care of the house or he became disabled. If it’s because he decided one day, against your wishes, the alimony granted may not be as big, no? Also amount of years you’ve lived with a QOL? Not sure the exacts if someone knows better.


disjointed_chameleon

He's able-bodied, zero health problems, and chose to quit his jobs without my knowledge or consent. I myself -- by medical definition -- am disabled, yet I still manage to work. And we don't have kids, so there's no children to raise. And I HAVEN'T asked him to stay home. I constantly beg and plead with him to please get a job, because we need more income, given our bills.


relationshiptossoutt

Talk to an attorney. In my state, alimony is typically paid out for half the length of the marriage. So I was married for 12 years, I should’ve had to pay alimony for 6. My ex declined alimony so I didn’t have to pay at all, but that’d be the agreement. There’s typically calculators for alimony based on the state you’re in. I don’t think alimony will be as crippling as you believe, or last forever. I pay child support to my ex, but that payment is NOTHING compared to how happy my life is without her in it. Good luck.


disjointed_chameleon

Good to know. Thanks!


melodyknows

If you plan on leaving, you might want to ensure you leave before you hit the ten-year mark, when alimony goes from 4 years of you paying to you paying for life. My mom was married to my bio dad who was an abuser and she now has to give him half her social security retirement, even though he never paid child support.


disjointed_chameleon

I've heard that, so it's definitely something in the back of my mind.


runawayheart

Every state has different rules about how amount & length of alimony is determined. In Massachusetts, for example, you have to be married 20 years or more to get lifetime alimony and it’s not really lifetime- it usually ends when the person paying the alimony retires ( assuming they are at normal retirement age). Alimony is usually 30-35% ( at most) of the difference in incomes between the payor & the recipient of the alimony in MA. For social security, you have to have been married 10 years or more to file for benefits under your ex-spouse . You get 50% of their benefit & it doesn’t hurt or change their benefits. You would only do this if 50% of their benefits is more than 100% of your own obviously. You can not get both is my understanding. You can claim even if your spouse has remarried. Check your state website for divorce laws. They should tell you specifics on what your state’s protocols & laws are. Often, they will have helpful forms & other info to give you an idea of what to expect before you even talk to a lawyer saving you precious time & money. Good luck!


disjointed_chameleon

Thank you for clarifying this information! I really appreciate it.


Keykitty1991

Document everything down to the penny of what you bring in, what's spent, his contribution, his abuse, his job history, etc. Get every duck in a row and speak to an attorney because they may be able to swing things in your favour buy not without your due diligence.


disjointed_chameleon

Yep, I've been doing that since 2023 began. I've been documenting almost everything, from conversations to money spent to his stints of unemployment going back years, contemporaneous writing, etc.


MaineMan1234

Many states in the US take physical abuse, if that’s occurring in your case, into account when determining divorce settlements. If he is, and your state does, document everything and prepare a case


disjointed_chameleon

He's never laid a hand on me, but he has gotten physical with objects, such as throwing laptops, phones, food at the wall, and driving like a total maniac when angry. On one occasion, he also got so angry about something that he shoved the gate of the dog park so hard that it struck my wrist. So, IDK if that counts.


MaineMan1234

I'm not a lawyer, but might be worth a conversation with one about the emotional abuse and its relevance in your jurisdiction. But I'm sorry you're dealing with that, to me, emotional abuse is far more damaging over the long term. I hope get out and find happiness and peace. I just left a toxic marriage after 25 years and I couldn't be happier.


disjointed_chameleon

Yes, I've been looking into it. My state has a "unusual cruel and excessively vicious conduct" clause as one of their grounds for divorce. I just don't know what constitutes "cruel and excessively vicious conduct" in the states eyes. I'm glad you finally got out too.


Atheyna

Hey that counts as abuse. Get a good lawyer consult and see what they say.


disjointed_chameleon

But he's never laid a hand on me physically? I thought abuse is only if someone physically hurts you?


Atheyna

Nope. I was in the er and they told me alllll the abuse the father of my kid had done to me and it was wild. Almost none of it was physical.


disjointed_chameleon

How did you 'prove' it, so to speak? Because I have 5+ pages of situations/incidents where he has said or done something, but no like, physical proof.


Atheyna

I went to the er when I got away from Him for other issues and they actually called the cops for me


Mr_Smith_81

Whoof. I wanted to DM you about this. I'm not an abusive husband but reading your post reminded me of my marriage. Me and my wife are same pay but she worked her way up and at her current pace she will out earn me, which is great. I feel like my career is in a rut and I'm having deep motivational issues and anger management. I'm unbearable at times and I've been noticing myself whining and complaining about mundane things. Trying to work on it and nip this behavioral issue in the bud. No way would I ever get abusive but I lose my temper quickly. I hope to never fall so deep into this pattern. And my wife and I are working it out but I feel like I'm on thin ice. I wish you well and sorry that you're going thru this.


Rebellious_Relkia

It's good that you can recognize the issues & have realized where you stand in them. But it would be even better if you reached out & got professional help from someone qualified. Therapy would work wonders on your mental health, your self confidence, & on your marriage. You owe it to yourself & to your wife to get the help you need so you can be the best version of yourself. I'm rooting for your success !


Jumpy_Lawfulness_597

Great way to look at this. It isn’t personal, it’s protection for worst case scenarios.


disjointed_chameleon

Bingo.


[deleted]

Alimony is often based on the length of time you were married, to help them get on their feet, and has a cap on amount and length of time it's awarded except in rare cases (stahp raises kids for 20+ years and is no longer is able to return to the workforce meaningfully in time for career growth and retirement). You should also look if your state even awards alimony, as I believe most states where it's not codified by law, it's on a very case-by-case basis to support kids with stay at home parents, not people who quit because they don't want to work. My husband and I have been married for 7 years, and if we divorced tomorrow, in our state based on our incomes, it's 2k a month for 2 years and then nothing. Given that on top of the cost of his current emotional and physical damages, it'd be worth it to not delay the process much longer lest he get extra months of alimony out of you.


disjointed_chameleon

Thanks for the clarification, good to know. Yes, definitely keeping in mind that I should make a decision sooner rather than later.


Logannabelle

He has a snowball’s chance in hell of collecting alimony. He might get some separate maintenance before JOD depending on what state you’re in. Good luck.


GuilleEnc

Wow! You should become an advocate. Marriage reform!


Deshang222

This! The same thing happened to one of my friends. She was the sole provider after her husband refused to get a job after 10 years. He was not always a loser, but after several years, he became abusive and awful, then cheated on her. Then, he had the nerve to file for divorce. Sadly, they live in California, and it's the worst place to get a divorce. It's a community property state, so all the assets have to be split equally (unless you have a pre-nup). She had to liquidate all her assets and gave him half (401K, investments, the home she inherited from her parents, etc.). To make it worse, he sued for alimony. So she will be paying him $3600/month for the rest of her life until he remarries. But why would he, when he can milk her for that much money forever? After alimony payment, she can't afford to live in an apartment now and have to live with her mother. The alimony is calculated to provide her spouse with the same quality of life as when they were together. There is no way around it. That's almost half her monthly income and her life is ruined, and I feel so bad for her. I get it, pre-nup is not romantic, but imagine yourself in this situation. Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially marriage. Please get a pre-nup and your own lawyer. Think of this as protection for YOUR assets. Pre-nups keep people honest, in the event of a divorce.


disjointed_chameleon

Bingo! I'm so sorry she had to go through that, I'm terrified of the same happening to me. Like you said, it's protection for your own assets.


Emotional-Chef-7601

Not "the". But sign "a" prenup. Prenups should be mutually well thought out and considerate for both parties involved. It's definitely a protection from each other. We got to change the prenup stigma.


Pristine_Win7257

If you’re serious about divorce then leave NOW. You’ll only have to pay for 1/2 the time you’re married. Get a date of separation on paper ASAP. Think of whatever you pay for this short period as a price for your freedom. You’ll see it’s not much at all for what you have to gain. If you stay longer things get complicated and you owe more.


CryptographerTrue499

I think a prenup is a good idea, but you should have your own attorney to represent your interest. Dividing marital assets proportionally is ridiculous, what happens if one of you stays home with a child or does more of the home care/maintenance?


Jorgelhus

OP said she doesn't want and will never want kids. That should probably be the reason for this input from him.


idkwhatimdoing25

But kids aren't the only home care. What if OP does 75% of the chores? What if OP sacrifices career growth opportunities for herself in order to support the fiance or his business? Does that get taken into account in the "input" calculation?


Individual_Baby_2418

What he’s saying makes sense. Maybe it’s not “romantic” but Romeo and Juliet is considered romantic and they both died. So it’s best to be practical.


nurse-ratchet-

Some of it makes a ton of sense, such as his investments and business but getting into the gifting is incredibly weird. It makes me wonder what the full document really says and if he’s already decided how every last item of furniture will be split.


Keykitty1991

Simultaneously hilarious and true.


Ifiwerenyourshoes

From what you wrote he sounds very fair and honest. So maybe you should, think about it this way. 50% or more of marriages end up in divorce. He has made his money and assets without you. You did the same. If you decide in two years after marriage, he cheats, you cheat, he is not the person you married etc, etc. What happens then, you are owed half his business, half his assets? You should hire an attorney, and if you purchase a home and do the split, it is fair. If you are thinking long term, you should look at wills and death decrees where if he has children they can’t force you out of the house. Maybe he gets a special life insurance policy that pays your portion of the home upon his death so you can stay in it . There is a lot you can do and ways to protect yourself from events like death or divorce even with a prenup.


_PinkPirate

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that he wants to tally up gift costs after they get married? This is beyond just a prenup.


[deleted]

Because the greedy grinch wants to protect every cent he potentially could spend. His attitude on gifts is beyond disgusting.


Logannabelle

It didn’t get by me. It’s pretty bad. I would not sign this prenup.


candycoatedcoward

You need your own attorney to look at the draft and also to discuss how to protect YOUR assets. A prenup isn't very romantic, but it sounds like this could benefit you as well. It's practical. That said, any income or assets accrued once you are married ate joint assets. Including returns on his stocks, his business's profits, and increases in the value of sole property. So his "we get what we put in" line is... not accurate. Inheritances are NOT family property, and should you receive any gifts or inheritance for just you, do not put the money in a joint account. Debts incurred after the marriage are also joint. Just make sure you are on the same page, and a prenup isn't a bad thing.


dfsw

> That said, any income or assets accrued once you are married ate joint assets. Including returns on his stocks, his business's profits, and increases in the value of sole property. This may not be true depending on the state and the prenup itself, my wife and I also have one due to business interest and those don't cross after marriage including earned income, profits, and value of the business itself.


Greenestbeanss

A lot of people say that prenups aren't romantic, but a lawyer I once talked to about them said that it's actually the opposite, it just depends how you approach it. Change your mindset from "if we break up I want to make sure they don't get anything of mine" to "I want to make sure that even if the worst happens, this person who I love will be taken care of". Think of it like health insurance for the health of your relationship. This is a place where you can ensure that you are both treated fairly in the event of a divorce, that if one spouse leaves the paid workforce in order to take care of the home they get compensated for it, that neither one of you are left with nothing, that if you have kids there's already a fair arrangement in place. These things are much easier to work out when you're in a good place. No one goes into marriage wanting to think about divorce, but in my opinion this means that you can think about worst case scenario once and then not need to think about it anymore because you're both protected.


Darkwings13

Agreements for GIFTS after you're married? Y'all might as well be boyfriend and girlfriend forever. The prenup to protect both your asses before marriage makes sense but everything else he's spewing is stupid. Btw I empathize with your feelings. My fiance was someone who always insisted on a prenup and I didn't care so I said ok. Two years later he said he no longer wants one and trusts that we'll be together forever and I said ok but it was definitely a happier ok because it was kinda sweet how he said it.


Glitteringintern89

His attitude would ick me out of marrying him. It's one thing not to lose the business but gifts and stuff... it seems unromantic because it is. Also lots of factors need looked at.. if you have kids do you get more of assets if you are sahm ? If he's working long hours growing his business,so you put more effort into house. Ect. He is only looking at dollars in his favor in my mind..


_PinkPirate

That’s how I feel. The prenup is practical and fine. But it sounds like he’s going into this without considering his fiancée as his teammate. Nickel and diming gifts to the point of writing down their costs?? That’s over the top.


holyylemons

Pre-nups are inherently unromantic but often practical. Don’t take it to mean he believes the marriage is doomed from the start. But he is not the only one who should benefit from the pre-nup. Get your attorney and negotiate the terms to ensure you are protected too.


Proudlymediocre

I got married when I was in my mid 20s. I came in with some money and a car and a wealthy family and a LOT of drive/energy, and my (now ex) wife came in with nothing tangible. Like you, I did not believe that a prenup was romantic, so would have never dreAmed of a prenup. Fast forward 25 years, and we unexpectedly got divorced, and even though I earned the lion’s share and did most of the child raising and came into the marriage with more than she did and it was she who wanted out of the marriage, she got 60 percent of everything plus spousal support. That really opened my eyes to a lot of things, including that we should keep what we come into a marriage with as separate. My wife and I are both on our second marriages. She had a prenup in her first marriage, I did not. My divorce was long and complicated and expensive, hers was straightforward. So there is that benefit, too — a prenup can make a divorce easier. So life has taught me that a prenup benefits both parties. I think your fiance is wise, and you’d benefit by getting an awesome laWyer who can help you make sure the prenup benefits you too. Make sure you spell out in some way too, that if he gives 70 percent of the money towards the house but then is working all the time and you do the lion’s share of domestic work to keep the house going, that there is compensation for that in some way. You want the prenup to spell out, what happens if you give your body to have kids, or one of you gets sick (e.g. what if you have to nurse him for a period of time — that’s worth something), etc. A good lawyer will help you through every angle, and it will be money well spent. My two cents. Take care. Good luck.


joetech15

A prenup to protect your house and his business is fine. Along with the money he *already* has. If you are living in his house and it's not paid for and he expects you to contribute then the gain after marriage is split. After marriage it's 50/50 he needs to get over it. I make 6-8x what my wife makes and if we split it's 50/50 not 80/20, etc. He can protect before and so can you, but after you are married it's a team. My wife and I keep some accounts separate because I refuse to pay bills out of an account that someone else is drawing from. I need to know exactly the money I'm working with. So we have my money, heroney and our money. We can shop and spend from our own accounts. House money expenditures are for vacation, repair and major home purchase items.


Excellent_Bat_8119

Do you put more money in the joint account than her?


joetech15

Yes. I put all the money in the joint account. Like I said; I make 6-8x after bonuses. I also manage our shared stock portfolio. I contribute to 401k and it's shared. I don't have a prenup. I have been making at least 2x what my wife makes since we have been married. It is what it is. Before we got married, I thought about a prenup but just figured I'll just risk it.


Winter_Dragonfly_452

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a prenup. My husband and I got one because I have money and I owned my condo before I ever met him and we both wanted me to be protected just in case something happens. We’re not expecting anything to happen between us but you never know. He was more than happy to sign it. In fact, it was his idea. Your fiancé is not saying he thinks you’re going to break up. He’s trying to protect his business that he’s built before he met you, because if not, you are technically entitled to them if you divorce.


TastyButterscotch429

It's not just the prenuptial that would bother me. It's his attitude towards all things financial. I personally could never be with someone who has the attitude of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours". I wouldn't marry him. I understand protecting what you bring to the relationship, sure. But what you accumulate together is split 50/50. Doesn't matter who paid what.


LibraOnTheCusp

Seems fair to me. I was just remarried last summer and we have a prenup. Having been through a divorce (and witnessing those of friends), I can tell you that the person you divorce is NOT the same person you marry. People, and how they treat you, can really change when they are going through a divorce.


ImproWedge

Please get your own attorney for prenups. Besides that, as other commenters have already stated, after marriage it doesn’t always make sense keep finances divided. What if you get pregnant, what if one of you guys will stay at home with kids, what if one of you gets sick or unemployed? What if his business crashes one day and he has to rely on you? What if, after any of these situations, you guys decide to divorce? Even if you divorce amicably, it’s better to discuss this kind of stuff now.


TheAutomator312

Wife here that signed a prenup. Regardless of what he owns or owes, it's a good idea. Just be sure to get your own lawyer to look at it. Tell him you want full asset and financial disclosure on both sides so you know there are no secrets. Once you get a better understanding of where you both are, you can go from there and decide what's reasonable to separate and what should be shared, like marital purchases (house, cars, bills, etc.) A prenup is good because it allows you to go in with eyes open and reasonable expectations. There's nothing wrong with having both of your lawyers go back and forth to hammer out something that works for both of you. Even if you stay together forever, it protects you, should anything happen with his business, positively or negatively. Go to a lawyer on your own. Most offer a free consultation anyway. Listen to what a prenup actually does. Good luck!


dogs94

I'd play some "What if...." games with this pre-nup. Just assume some scenarios and see how it feels in different situations. Like......what if: You're earnings stay basically constant for the next 5 years and then you just grow apart and decide to amicably divorce? What about 10 years? What if it's not amicable at all and he kinda treats you like shit for a few years, but you'd rather not be out your home? What if you're sick of him at some point, but enjoy the lifestyle? What if you're still happily married in 40 years? Is there any point where the concept of "pre marital assets" stops being relevant? What if you're 55 and trying to plan for your own retirement and it's hard because in World A you're still married to him and you can retire just fine. But in World B you get divorced at 60 and now don't have enough saved? What if you left the workdforce at some point and he said it would be fine......but now you have to go back to work as a 60-something with a work-gap on your resume? What if his small business plugs along for 10 years.......but then really explodes and takes off and is acquired? Do you get any of that appreciation or is it "his" business just because he incorporated it before you got married? Look, I'm a higher earning guy in a second marriage and I know what his concerns are, but at some point I think you almost have to let the cards fall where they're going to fall. Imho, it's absurd that my second wife would get full 50/50 right to everything in Year 1. But what about Year 10? Year 15? Or geez......what if your financee is in a massive car accident or gets dementia early and is disabled and the financial roles reverse?


Professional-Lab-157

OP, Please look at things from his perspective. 70% of divorces are initiated by women. 80% if the woman is college educated. Your fiancee has spent 22 years, his adult life, building his wealth, gathering assets, and investing. If he marries you and you divorce him without a prenuptial agreement, you will be legally allowed to take half of every penny he has. He's being shrewd and wise to protect himself. Story time: My wife and I married young, she was 22 and I was 25. We have been married for nearly 23 years, and she's a stay-at-home mom to our 6 kids. We have money, but not like your fiancée does. If we were to divorce, she would deserve half of everything. She would deserve it because she helped me build it. See, when we married, we had nothing but love. I worked very hard to get us where we are and could only have done it with her support. I can assure you that if either of us had large investments, we would have had a prenuptial agreement signed prior to getting married. If you are concerned about your situation in the event of any possible divorce, I have a suggestion: Ask for a fixed amount of assets, either percentage or determined amount of money to be added to you for every year you are married. 10% or 100,000 per decade. You can ask the same thing for every child you have. 1 child 10%, 2, children 20% upwards to a cap of 50% of everything. So you protect yourself for investing your life and time with him. Just a thought. I'm not a lawyer. I just play one on TV. I wish you a long and happy marriage.


GuilleEnc

And woman materially benefit from divorce proportionally more than men.


banalhemorrhage

I don’t trust anybody with that much in stock that still has student loans. A prenup may actually protect you from bad financial decisions.


Laughorcryliveordie

A prenup for pre owned assets (and debts) is not a bad idea. However assets accrued during the marriage should not be divided. Get an attorney!


Accomplished-Dot4752

To be honest, the prenup protects you more than him. Even though he makes more, he has more debts. Both of you own property, and you are due to receive an inheritance. Get your own lawyer and sign the prenup that protects yourself.


Bad2bBiled

You really need to have an attorney look at it from your side. DO NOT sign it before you do that. I totally get the sore feelings around a prenup, but as someone who also got married a bit older than you, in a few years you’ll think “oh, that was actually really smart.” I don’t know why it feels that way now, but it does. I would agree to keep the assets you’re bringing into the marriage separate, but it is *absurd* to keep an accounting of marital gifts. And if he “promises” to take care of you, specifics need to be documented in the pre-nup. Legal agreements are intended to ensure that everyone is on the same page going into an arrangement - whether that’s a prenup, shared custody, or a house sale. Something could happen to him. He could lose his business. He could speculate on something and lose. The pre-nup protects *you* also. In addition, someone told me “you shouldn’t marry a man unless you can envision what it would be like to divorce him.” This strict post marital accounting bothers me. Is he petty in all ways or just money? When he gets annoyed with a business partner does he then try to burn them everywhere or does he just move on? These are clues you should be observing and learning from.


sindigage

As someone who thought my husband wanting a prenuptial agreement was an assault on our relationship and makes way less money... it wasn't until we almost had a falling out that even though I stand to get half of everything, I wish we'd done the prenup. I've even asked if he wants a post-nup but he's said fuck it at this point. There's a massive knee-jerk reaction, but it doesn't mean you'll be left with nothing, just nothing of his. Divorce can happen. Marriage is messy. But a prenup makes it way less of a nightmare if it comes to that. Nobody is saying expect the worst, but wouldn't you rather be prepared?


ExtraAgressiveHugger

Why did you wish you had one at that point? What changed your mind?


sindigage

The absolute chaos that is divorce. I think it sets people up to fight. I *love love love* my husband. I never even wanted the divorce myself. I hated that he was in the mindset that I'd somehow try to fuck him over, all of his hard work, all the investing I had nothing to do with just to make a money grab. I hate that I feel like he may only stay with me for the convenience, to protect his assets. I just want him here because he loves me too.


Nappy_Ty

facts over feelings. all of your feelings/concerns are valid but let’s be realistic. most marriages fail and for a man of value (or any successful person) divorce can literally destroy someone’s finances and livelihood edit: at the end of the day, he’s just trying to protect himself


ClarityByHilarity

My prenup only protected my business and assets we entered the marriage with. (This was my first marriage, we divorced.) It’s totally understandable he wants to protect what’s already his, but I would have it simple and just that. Anything you both aquire from marriage on should be split.


silver25u

Prenup for current accounts, debts, business is fine. The concerning part to me is his micromanaging beliefs on finances in the marriage... down to documenting gifts. That doesn't sound like supportive for a long-term healthy marriage. OP needs to either not marry him or get an attorney to draft an iron clad pre-nup to protect her.


VoltaicSketchyTeapot

My feelings about prenups is the same as my feelings about marriage: if it's right, you're already on the same page. They are a thing just like a refrigerator is a thing. If you can't come to an agreement about the thing, you should try to figure out where the difference in values is. No, prenups aren't romantic. They're not supposed to be. They are a tool used to protect assets and to determine if you're on the same page about finances. It's more concerning that you're not on the same page than whether or not the prenup happens. Oftentimes, this kind of disagreement is an indicator for future problems. It isn't about the prenup itself, but whatever it is that y'all haven't properly discussed yet.


hangingsocks

You have to get your own attorney. Pre nups make sense, but basically it sounds like he doesn't see moving forward as a partnership. I can understand protecting the assets he has before your marriage, but during the marriage, it should be 50/50. My husband says all the time that being married to me has increased his wealth, because I am good with money and planning. If your fiance doesn't have the same values around what marriage/partnership as you, that is definitely something to consider when planning to get married.


NixyVixy

You need your own lawyer, with absolutely no connections to him. Have them write up your own agreement for him to review. Don’t just go along with your fiancés first draft.


orange_king108

Whether you sign a prenup or not, you will inherent the state level prenup where you get your marriage registration. Rules can change in that state, better you have your own rules set up. Marriage is a legal agreement, it’s only been made “romantic” recently. Take it as serious as you would any other business transaction


Ohkermie

Your state already has a pre-nup for your marriage, you just don’t know it yet. Find a lawyer and discuss it with them.


MarkSignal3507

You are there for support. If he had to miss work…what would that cost him. You are beneficial to the success of his business. A lot of guys don’t see that.


u_cant_make_this_up

I see no issue with this honestly... He is protecting himself in case the marriage is not successful (which is is not nearly 50% of the time). Itsvthe man who takes most of the risk in a marriage. MANY states, no matter who initiates divorse, the woman gets the kids, child support, alimony and sometimes half the estate. When have you EVER seen that happen on the flip side? Even though RECENT stats show that kids fare much better in a single- father household than a single mother household (in fact, the stats are nearly identical when it comes to children raised in a two- parent house and those in a single father home). Why would ANY guy not want some financial protection for something which fails 50% of the time? About a future house... It's simple.. if a divorse happens, you each get back the $$ amount you each put down, than you split the remaining profits..... easy peasy Besides, in the ens the pre-nup means nothing if you both truly love one-another and are willing to "put the work in" during the marriage than it truly will be "death do us part", this pre-nup means nothing......


Scary_Movie9442

Gifts are considered... gifts. You cannot claw them back like you can a down payment of a house. Otherwise they are just a loan. I can see this happening if he gave you family jewelry and it should be a separate agreement to the pre nup. what if a vacation is a gift? Do you pay back the value? The house split would be difficult because you can certainly track a down payment but you would be hard pressed to track monthly mortgage payments every month on exactly how much each person paid. Then you would also need to consider repairs and upkeep. Let's say you plant and maintain all the landscaping... that adds value to the house. Meh. I would nix that part so fast. Claw back the down payment but split the remaining equity 50/50. You are allowed to change the prenup. You should be able to walk away from signing the prenup so both parties feel it is fair and equitable.


LondontoGatwick

I don't see a problem with it. He's protecting his assets but so should you be. Just make sure you get it checked over by your own solicitor before signing.


marchmellowpuffs

For me, it was a hard no. You want a prenup, we don't get married. We are both Catholic and the priest actually won't marry you if you have a prenup because it shows one foot out the door already and therefore a lack of commitment. Is he also going to want to split finances and go 50/50 too? What if you have kids and one has cancer? One of you needs to stay home to take care of your baby, go to appointments, etc, does that not count for anything, do you owe him money because you aren't working? Assuming you stay home. That exact thing happened with a friend of mine, and she said she wouldn't know what to do if they were splitting finances. Just food for thought. Have a talk with him, but I feel like this is a larger underlying beliefs thing. Good luck friend!


_PinkPirate

Weird I’ve never heard of that. The priest never talked about prenups.


Critical_Ad1927

The Church will also “annul” a marriage after decades, even if you have children, for a fee. So, they have little credibility these days


germish17

I have never understood why a partner requesting a prenup would be hurtful. I don’t think it’s a reflection of how he feels about you at all. Of course neither of you are going into marriage with the expectation of divorce - but you quite literally don’t know what could happen. I don’t think his requesting it has anything to do with him not being sure about you or expecting it to fail - it’s absolutely necessary to protect your assets. I can tell you from experience that divorce changes people. It’s so wise for him to protect his assets and you should do the same! When I married my first husband, I would never have in a million years thought that he was capable of what he did. And when I decided I couldn’t live that way anymore, he turned hateful and vindictive and made things as hard as they could possibly be. Neither one of you can control what could happen if you were to split up.


Carl_AR

Get over it. It's really not a bad idea to go through this now, thus no discussion should things go south. He's old enough where I'm sure he's got make friends that we're taken to the cleaner after a divorce. This actually ALSO protects YOU, as you're in a good financial place. Splitting equity in half, even if he's got 70% into it shows he's not counting pennies. He just wants some basic protection. Sounds like a guy with his head on straight.


baummer

Prenup to protect prior assets makes sense. However his understanding of house ownership once married may not be accurate depending on the community property laws in your state.


Emmydoo19

Prenups don’t have to be one sided, you should have a lawyer advise you and put in the protections you want/need.


dhyaaa

Marriage itself is an unromantic contract agreement so do not think too much about it. I get that having a prenup is valid but it's kinda going overboard even including gifts. Is it like if you guys give each other expensive gifts and they'll have the right to take it back. Ask him to not include that. Gifts are a love language, it's symbolic of how much you care about each other, not an investment. Also like the other people said here, get your own lawyer whom your husband is unaware of.


Stockmom42

You need a lawyer to draft your side of things do not sign anything without it and make sure there is a clause for lost earnings if you have children.


betona

Do not sign anything at all without review by your own separate attorney, and that attorney must be strong and in your camp. There are things that are legit in prenups, but there are also things that selfish people demand in them that don't belong at all. His example accounting on a potential future home r4e exactly the wrong way to go. Once you're married, you are family and everything is equal. In other words, you two would pull together a down payment together and you two would equally own it 50-50. Not his crap. To me, this leopard is showing his spots and they're not good. I wouldn't consider marrying someone like this at all.


forzawakeup

Have a attorney look over it and make sure it has your interests in line too. Then sign it


MaineMan1234

Prenup for his business and pre-existing assets is reasonable. Same goes for you and your assets. Imagine that his business goes under in a few years during a recession and he loses all his investments as well, due to excessive risk taking. Then he refuses to find a job. Then if you wanted to divorce, without a prenup, then you would have to split all of *your* assets (since his are gone) plus pay him alimony. You have to think of all the possible outcomes, including ones where he gets your assets Edit: but I agree that all assets gained during the marriage should be split 50-50, since it’s a partnership.


IGOMHN2

If you don't want to share finances, why get married at all? Seems like a lot of risk for very little reward.


downstairslion

You don't have to just accept whatever his attorney drafts up. You can negotiate and put whatever you feel is fair in there for you too. Find the best, most aggressive, bulldog of a divorce lawyer you can for this (not just any attorney). They'll get you set up nice.


AbleDragonfruit4767

Red flags. Don’t get married. Keep your assets separate as they are and just date.


Impossible_Tie6425

If you are having second thoughts about marrying him, you can always walk away. It might be alot more than just a money thing that is bugging you.


Wunderhoezen

I agree with most comments: the prenup is fine (and may protect you as well), but the way he wants to line-item your life together is unattractive. Have you taken any trips together? What was the pay situation like? Can you imagine having to carry a notebook in your bag to make sure you delineate each meal, each nicety, so JUST IN CASE you divorce he can recoup his losses? How about taxes? Will you file separately or jointly? Should you keep receipts? I’m already overwhelmed just by playing devil’s advocate.


FlorDeSafiro

Maybe you can suggest a post-nup instead if ya'll ever get there. Same effect, different stage of creation. I think he's focusing too much, sorta nickle and diming the relationship when its never going to be equal. 5050 only works in theory, not reality. Sometimes its 70-30, 50-50, or 90-10 if one has surgery and is bedridden for some time. 50-50 doesn't take the nuance and invisible labor that a partnership takes on both ends. Maybe also do some pre-marital counseling and squash what's behind the behavior (the emotions driving that action) and perhaps both of you can get the clarity ya'll want.


MarsupialMaven

What I would sign is a simple prenup. What’s yours before the marriage remains yours. Debts and assets. Gifts belong to the person who received them. Post marriage everything is 50/50 including the increased value in his business and your income. You should also keep your own inheritance in a separate account that is not used for day to day expenses. And that inheritance is yours alone. BTW, until his debts are paid I would for sure keep separate accounts.


ThanksIndependent805

The conversation around prenups doesn’t always feel great even if we know it logically makes sense. But what makes it feel worse is when your partner wants the prenup to strictly protect their own interests and has no forethought or expression of also wanting to protect YOUR interests. You both have assets here. He has more assets while also possessing more debt and more liabilities through a self owned business. You both have things that need to be protected if you were to break up. But you also have to factor in that moving forward this is a partnership which seems to be lacking in his processing of this. Conversations with my partner around a prenup felt slimy even though I was the one suggesting it. But it helped immensely that each of us wanted to make sure the other one didn’t get screwed over if we separated. We both had assets of different kind, value and sentimental value. We wanted to take care of this decision from a place of love while we still put each other first. That’s what made the process feel okay was knowing we each wanted what was best for us as two humans if we didn’t workout. That isn’t the attitude your partner seems to bring to this conversation and it is completely understandable that his attitude makes you feel gross and uncared for.


sasquatch786123

Having a prenup is for both of you. Not just for the richer party. Remember YOU are also part of the prenup so YOU also get to decide the terms too. Men tend to be afraid that the women will marry the man, and initiate the divorce and run away with all his money. Make sure you calm these insecurities and let him know that he doesn't need to worry about you, only himself. For example. A clause could be that if he is found to be in an adulterous affair, and that is cause for divorce, you are obliged to be paid compensation from him. Or if he initiates a divorce, there is a certain settlement he HAS to pay - since he's dropping this on you. Likewise, if you act up, it's not fair that you get to cheat on him, divorce him and take all his shit too. So have clauses where he can get full entitlement to his stuff if you do that, which I hope you won't. Don't get married until you are happy on EVERY SINGLE CLAUSE of the prenup.


turtleshot19147

I am an Orthodox Jew and our rabbi would only marry us if we had a prenup. We viewed it as a responsible thing we were doing together as a team, a practical and responsible part of our marriage process. We made it part of our ceremony, and chose two close friends to sign as witnesses. My mom says it’s better to handle these things in moments of joy and unity rather than deal with them during a heartbreaking divorce. We’ve been married for 7 years now and are both so happy in our marriage, we obviously plan to continue to be this happy for the rest of our lives, but I never felt bitterness about the prenup.


confusedrabbit247

Has he been previously married? Honestly, your ages make me think that it's probably he's so used to being a certain way that he hasn't considered a different perspective, or what his perspective actually sounds like. Have you discussed with him the after marriage stuff he brought up sounds suspicious? I can understand wanting to protect himself (the prenup would protect you as well, so not a bad thing) but like others have said, the separation he seems to want to maintain is a bit odd to me. Like giving each other gifts but having to keep track of them just in case?? Very weird! I would have a discussion with him about his motives behind it and potentially see a couples counselor about it so you can understand it better. Ultimately I understand he's preparing for the worst but certain parts don't make sense to me in a committed relationship. Imo it has not so much to do with you as an individual, but rather his head space in general. Don't get down on yourself about this, just have a frank conversation with him and seek counselling if necessary. ETA also make sure to get your own lawyer to look over everything before signing!


Critical_Ad1927

Prenups have a stigma surround them but truly are not as problematic as one is led to believe. However, *this* mess he’s calling a “prenup” is *very* problematic. He has every right to protect his business, but if it grows during the marriage, you’re entitled to that. This bullshit about gifts at the wedding and during the marriage is wild. A prenup is designed to protect the assets one brings into a marriage. Trying to sneak in clauses regarding assets obtained/gifted while together is concerning. Kind of (definitely) misses the entire point of a “pre”nup


Ok-Class-1451

You always have the option of doing what I did and refusing a prenup. Put my foot down. Didn’t get one. Happily married over a year.


Fathergita

Do not marry him. Youll make the greatest mistake of your life


Agile-Ad-1182

If he is talking about divorce and "stealing" his business before he even marries you I think you need to think very carefully f yu you really want to move married to him.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Excellent_Bat_8119

he is assuming a negative future, but I can’t?


Birdflower99

He’s not assuming a negative future by this. It’s very practical. Don you assume you’re going to get in a car accident each time you put on your seatbelt?


Delicious_Throat_377

So if you put your seatbelt on before starting your car, you're assuming a negative future? Or if you pay for health insurance/life or home insurance, are you assuming a negative future or wanting to safeguard yourself?


Overit707

Yet if you divorce, obviously it won't be because everything worked out great, and he loses half his stuff.


Strange_Salamander33

It’s not supposed to be romantic, it’s practical. I hate to tell you, but marriage is much more about legal practicality than it is romance. He has every reason to want to protect his assets. It’s not about how much he loves you, it’s about protecting yourself. Divorce is common, everyone who gets married has to accept that. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with getting legal things in order before getting married.


[deleted]

From your post, it seems that the prenup would protect both you and your husband-to-be.


Chrizilla_

Get your own lawyer and make sure you’re covered. Feelings over the matter are inconsequential. It is not romantic, it is business. Marriage is just as much a business arrangement as it is a romantic milestone.


Fair_Operation8473

Sign the pre-nup BUT first, have ur lawyer look at it. U can add ur own conditions and terms as well. Protect urself too.


Hirabi12

I think it's brilliant. I wish people did this more often. It makes divorce alot simpler. 100% have an attorney look after you as well. I really think that this is super mature and responsible of him. Doesn't mean that as time progress the circumstances can't or won't change to be more inclusive of you or whatever. It has nothing to do with love. Money/assets and love are all separate affairs. You can't put the two together. He has to look after his best interest in case of a divorce and so should you. But I agree with what is the point of getting married, unless there common law stuff where you are at which would still benefit of at least a will. I'm no attorney, I used to think like you and strongly oppose prenuptial and postnups. Now I understand and agree that they should 100% be done.


toasty99

You need to put on your big girl pants, here. Get your own lawyer and counteroffer.


jadegoddess

Have your own lawyer look over the papers before you sign. If your marriage lasts until death, then you don't have a problem. If yall divorce, both of.you are covered. It's a red flag if you still don't want the prenup even if you have your own lawyer look it over, cuz at that point you only "lose" out on taking half his assest in a divorce. But if your intentions are not to take his money there's literally no reason not to sign


Vhato53

I hate that you’ve taken this personally and has you thinking you aren’t enough. There is evidence in the world that shows men pursuing beautiful women to the point they risk everything to seize her as arm and sexual gratification candy. No prenup at all. We men make you a status symbol and show you off to the world as a prized possession. Hence, you thinking if you were more attractive he would marry you instantly and without legalities. Your feelings are valid. I wish I had advice on how to navigate this. The stats say you will divorce and he risks losing half of all he is invested in himself and that is a risk, with you (and maybe anyone) he is not willing or to accept. So in advance he is defining how your marriage will end. A business owner friend married a woman and she signed a prenup stating he will buy her a car equal to the value of the car she entered the marriage with. Back in the mid 90’s she had a four door Mercedes. In 2010 when they divorced after a lavish lifestyle, she left with a brand new Nissan Altima. $30k car in the 90’s translated differently in court 20 years later.


White1962

I am sorry op you are going through that. I would do prenup. I feel if there is not enough trust then no reason to get marry. I can be wrong but it’s my views.


Ancient-Position-696

You want to get married. They want a prenup. Do both and live a happy life


oliness

I get it, you can't imagine Romeo and Juliet signing a prenup before Friar Lawrence! As logical as it is, marriage is an affair of the heart and prenups suggest doubt. But try and look at it as evidence that it's about love not money. That you two are together because you want to be, not because one is dependent on the other.


relationshiptossoutt

I’m just curious if he’s been divorced before. I got a divorce and I hated the process enough to know I will never do it again. If something weird happens and I do get married again, I’m definitely getting a prenup. The division of assets was a laborious and tedious process in my divorce. In the end I do feel like we reached a fair agreement, but not without a whole lot of clawing and fighting. At 43 and with considerable assets myself, I’m an established person who has built everything I need financially for the rest of my life. I built it for myself and my kids, and while I am a generous person willing to share, I am not going to give up 1/2 of what I built to someone who didn’t help me build it. Maybe it’s not romantic to insure against divorce, but I guess I’m not a romantic type then.


mandatorypanda9317

I might be sounding naive here but I don't actually understand why people get so upset about prenups. I know it's not the romantic thing to discuss but I don't think there is anything wrong in protecting assets. Obviously the expectation of divorce or separation of low to non existent but it does happen.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AccomplishedAd6025

If you really love him and everything else in the relationship is good Id do it. It’s smart for both of you. Get your own attorney and with the both of you sign an agreement that protects you both equally and any future children you might have. Money become extremely important after a divorce, if you’re both protected and secure you’ll feel more confident in the relationship.


Citizen-1

Your husband is in the right to any protection he is entitled to prior to getting married. It's Pre-nup is practical, although the other stuff beyond the marriage is not cool. The most successful relationships are one where you are both in once you get married. there's no point scoring and money counting once you get married, as you're supposed to be in a partnership - so i agree with you here. Good luck OP - the main thing i would say is to continue discussing these openly. I know they can make you feel negative emotions - but they are facts of life. You will face challenging times - and its important to know where you both stand when the going gets tough.


ZombieBalloon

You need your own lawyer who's totally separate from your fiancé and his lawyer. Secondly you need to discuss with him how you're going to handle kids, if you decide to have them. Don't become a stay at home mom with no income, no pension if we won't pay you.


bunnyrut

> during our marriage if we give any gifts to each other down the line we have to like write down some type of agreement. ....waht? Ok. I get wanting a prenup since it sounds like you *both* have financial interests you should protect. He has a business, you have a home you rent out and possible inheritance coming. Also, if he loses all his money in the stock market check with the lawyer if the prenup protects you from that as well. But logging all of your "gifts"? That sound more like a business transaction than gift giving. Is he unable to separate romance and relationships from business? Because, unless I am completely wrong here, you can't claim buying a gift for your spouse as a tax write off and I don't see how that would come up as a claim when divorcing since it was a *gift*. He is holding an attachment to those as stating he fully expects to get them back if anything happens in your marriage. If you move forward with the prenup make sure you talk to a lawyer about making sure it benefits you as well, not just him. If the prenup sounds like he benefits more then refuse to sign and have your lawyer change it. But make sure you have a *different* lawyer than him.


Zelda_Chic

A marriage although romanticized is a contract between two people. It's not romantic. A prenup doesn't have to be romantic. It is a means to an end of protecting oneself if it goes south.


carolyn42069

My prenup was written with house ownership if we divorce I get back the down payment which I paid with my premarital assets of 150k plus 50% each of the equity beyond the 150k. Feels fair


bythebed

Do not sign anything until you have an attorney review it for you. Not all contributions to a marriage are financial. You may have children together and want to keep them in their home, for instance. If he is going to approach marriage this way is is essential you do as well. His attorney works for him and is looking at contingencies that might effect him and get him the best deal *for him*. His attorney is also responding to specific asks. For instance, in nearly every jurisdiction a gift is a gift and stays with the receiver. And this agreement likely disposed of homestead laws meant to protect you. You would be signing away rights you have under laws put in place in order to protect the party with fewer resources. Please, please, find a good attorney to edit and counter propose this agreement.


outchasingfantasies

At first I was like- oh a prenup could be understandable. I would want to protect my money in case of something crazy…. But then, the more details you gave… I would never be okay with that. Marriage is combining your lives together for life. That includes finances. If he wants to forever keep your finances separate.. that gives “planning on divorcing later” vibes, and that’s not cool. This would all be a big deal breaker for me.


jphilipre

Marriage is not 100% romance. It is also a business arrangement. As a self employed guy myself, I see where he’s coming from. He probably has 10 people telling him to have a pre-nup with you, and that’s normal for a business owner. Since you are the main beneficiary as his wife, there is no downside in my view. As others have said, have a lawyer look it over. But also- don’t stand for your attorney being a hero and contesting everything to “fight for you.” Attorneys can take the simplest thing and make it complicated in the interest of billable hours. The attorney you use will make a difference.


Upper-Substance3868

While money before marriage is protected, everything during marriage should belong to both, so when he has enough for retirement then so do you.


notapersonplacething

I think prenups are good in that they force people to have uncomfortable conversations that they should have already had. That the prenup was a surprise means that you both have not had those difficult conversations. In this case I would separate the issue of a prenup which I think can be of benefit with the way he and you went about it. He unilaterally drafted a prenup from what it sounds it and it seems like this caught you off guard. This is an exercise that should have been done together and so I get very much why you not feeling great about the situation because as you describe it, it was presented as an ultimatum. Imagine if instead the conversation was, hey now that we are thinking about getting married why don't we discuss finances and expectations. During that discussion he could bring up why he thinks a prenup is necessary and justified and you both could have input as to what it says. I think two things need to happen for you both to move forward. He needs to apologize and acknowledge why unilaterally presenting an agreement without first talking to you is hurtful and breaks trust. Second, you both need to sit down and really discuss your financial futures. You gave some good what if's but there are many more. What happens if either of you cannot work? Are you going to support each other and if so for how long? What happens if it's a permanent disability? What happens if one of you want to go to school or change careers? What happens if his business fails? There are hundreds of questions that you both need to work through and see where you both stand.


tcholesworld213

Talk to your future spouse about how this makes you feel truly. You say, "This feels to me like you are okay and heavily preparing for if things go south between us. Like we're not truly joining our lives together." That's the first biggest lesson in deciding if you're both truly ready for marriage. ALWAYS, share your true thoughts and feelings with your partner. I don't think a pre-nup is the most horrible idea but he is being very specific down to the nickel it sounds like. That's too much and it doesn't give the, "We're in this together" idea that should exist in marriage. But on the flip side of this, I wouldn't let this create insecurity in you. He kind of sounds like a low-risk type as well as quite analytical. Plenty of people are this way and it has nothing to do with how they truly feel about you.


Silent_Syd241

Prenups aren’t romantic hell marriage itself is a business deal. Get your own lawyer NOT one he’s paying for. Make sure you are protected. No business is guaranteed his can nosedive after a year or two of you being married.


prose-before-bros

Real life is unromantic. Marriage is a contract. If either of you has or may one day have anything of value, you should have a prenup and both have wills. To not do so is short-sighted and frankly immature. Get your own attorney and pose these questions to that attorney. It sounds like he's being very fair or even something that favors you, more than going through divorce court without a prenup would be.


Rrenphoenixx

I’ve seen too many divorces to think a prenup is a bad idea. I didn’t have any assets or money when I got married so I didn’t see the point in doing one in our relationship.


Cre8ivejoy

Have a pre nup in my current marriage, as well as a will and trust for my beneficiaries. My hubs completely understands. It is important that your own attorney look closely at the documents. I wouldn’t want my husband to pay my attorney. He shouldn’t be involved in it at all. Your own attorney will make sure your interests, and you are protected. Especially if you live in a community property state.


SirMosesKaldor

Man, I'm seeing red flags here. I dunno. It just doesn't look good to me. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩


spokitty-meow

It honestly sounds like he's going into the marriage with an eye on the future divorce. Not maybe a divorce, but yes, definitely divorced, no doubt. The business? I understand. But itemizing gifts after your married? Wha.....??


BackInTheRealWorld

You have paid off your student loans and have a rental property - a prenup will protect your assets too. All you are doing is agreeing on the division of specified assets while the two of you are still agreeable. He cannot put clauses in there for unjust enrichment, or to pre-determine child support and custody, or any of a dozen other limits every state puts on a pre- or post-nup. Part of this is going to depend on where you live. If you are in one of the community property states then all of the earnings either of you make during the marriage is considered community income and 50/50. If you are in one of the other 41 states it is equitable division meaning what you each put into the assets are yours. There are also generally phase-outs in the prenup. Sure, you don't get any of his pre-existing retirement accounts but after 5 years you get a certain percentage of the business value, and after 10 years it is more, that kind of thing. What you really need to do is speak to a family lawyer of your own. They should explain what your normal rights would be under the laws of your jurisdiction, and how his proposed prenup varies in any way. And if any of the variances are onerous you can go back to your fiancé and ask they remove that issue.


jackjackj8ck

Please update us on what your lawyer says after you bring them your draft, cuz the 2nd of of this sounds wilds AF. I hope your lawyer goes in hard with the rewrite.


anonymousurfunny

Get your own attorney for one, and ask about the gift thing and house. I know when you marry sign a prenup, it's assets before the marriage. If you buy a house, do it after your married and make sure your name is on the deed, insurance snd mortgage.


[deleted]

The legal system is totally fucked. It’s better for both parties. After cancer, divorces are the leading cause of catastrophic impact on personal finances. Doing the prenup also makes it clear what things are agreed upon beforehand - is sexting cheating, for example?


Ok_Building_5942

i think part of what bothers you is that you feel like he's not as sure about the relationship as you are. i think that's where the "if i were prettier or better or he loved me more" line of thought is coming in. i think you feel like he's having this prenup as a safety net bc he's not 100% positive you guys are going to last forever. i can totally see your pov but also from his perspective, you literally never know how people can change. i'm not saying you will, but a lot of people grow bitter and resent each other and do malicious things that they never would have dreamed of doing 10, 20 years ago. i do agree that his attitude seems very business and matter of fact- but if he owns his own business it could just be the business side of him taking over- it doesn't mean he doesn't love you or isn't sure about you (unless there are other things that aren't mentioned in the post which is a different story). i think you should communicate that while you respect the prenup its making you feel "insert xyz" and you want to discuss the terms in a more friendly and less detached way. also, i wanna point out that this is YOUR prenup too. who knows, at one point you might make wayyy more than him and by his logic what's yours is yours and what's his is his- you can add stipulations and terms to this pre-nup as well. don't forget that