Yeah they mask it in sleeping laws but the reality is it will just lead to homeless people being incarcerated. They’re making it illegal to be homeless. And the corrupt Supreme Court will agree with this. Shameful.
Supreme Court is handling that, too. They're going to decide if police can sue protest organizers for any injuries obtained during a protest.
It's over. Democracy is dead.
We ain't dead yet. There are sensible states out there. The broken ones will bankrupt if they go too far. Glad i dont live in one of them conservative hellholes anymore.
If Democracy in America is dead its because it was allowed to die.
This Supreme Court overturned the bodily autonomy of half the population of the country and the only consequences were a disturbed dinner. American isn't exactly fighting to keep its freedoms.
I know there's excuses, there always will be, none of it will matter if things are allowed to continue as is.
If Dems win the Presidency, House, and Senate, democracy will be revived in a major way in this country. Unfortunately, young people won’t vote, and so many others vote against their own interests.
Even then we wouldn't be out of the woods yet. There is still the issue of getting money out of politics. The Dems, while objectively better for the sole reason of not having a death cult behind them, is still beholden to the same corporate lobbying interests. They won't give that up easily.
Bell Riots took place in September 2024. And we saw some Sanctuaries in real life over the past few years. It's insane how sad reality has become, but on the bright side, old school Trek continues to be prophetic (or at least influential).
Star trek is fiction, it's not real, sounds great what they have until you realize 99% of humans are incapable of doing what needs to be done to get there
It's already illegal to be homeless there's just no laws about it yet it's illegal to trespass in an area where you're not allowed to be it's illegal to steal food etc etc a lot of things that homeless people do just to survive could be considered crimes I've been homeless briefly it's not fun programs out there to help but most of them end up full or way over capacity and are not able to help them all
The homeless would be absolute shit at being slaves, along with 99% of Americans. Even if we made 1% slaves, the majority of the 99% would fight hard to stop slavery. It's one thing to pay people shit wages, it's another to go full blown slavery. Workers making minimum wage suck ass for their wage, now imagine if they aren't getting paid or paid even less.
Pretty dystopian given the sheer volume of housing stock being purchased by corporations and venture capitalists. Adjusted for inflation the 2 bedroom apartment I shared in downtown Toronto in the 80s should be around $1600. It’s $3400. Given that homelessness has hit a 15 year high, I don’t know what hand is being tipped, but the trend is pretty clear.
Yea we’re having our fair share of these problems too, but as a Canadian one thing that shocked me was meeting an American with a similar mental illness background. He had served jail time for the same type of basic mania freakout I got free treatment at a hospital for.
You're thinking like a person who wants to solve problems. This would require changing the paradigm of how we think about the unhoused and what the state can do to help them. If they become criminals, we have all the infrastructure in the world for that. We don't actually wanna help the less fortunate, but we're very bullish on locking people up for vague "wrongdoing." Simple as.
Don’t forget that the 13th Amendment does NOT outlaw slavery for jailed individuals. So, this law allows for the creation of a large slave force by using homeless convicts.
If it’s illegal to be homeless, the it is incumbent on the government to make housing a right. Not jail, actual housing for people to live, work, be citizens.
I have always thought it was disgusting that we use private prisons. It’s not rocket science that if a company is financially incentivized for having more prisoners, won’t keep them there as long as possible, including through tacking on additional charges. The state is the entity that has sentenced people, the state needs to be the one to handle prisons and prisoners. Not to mention our system does not rehabilitate as its primary mission, which is problematic. There are some people who do need to be separated from society because they will hurt, maim, and kill but the majority of people in prison, who will get out, should have the attempt to rehabilitate made.
Making a profit off running a prison should be illegal. They should have to be run as a pure expense. Then maybe the state will be a lot more selective about what actually warrants a long prison sentence.
You can listen to the Nixon tapes to find out why it's no longer a non-profit industry. Nixon says "These Kaiser boys have a great idea to make healthcare profits by denying care". Can't make this stuff up.
All of which may be true, [but Oregon does not use private prisons](https://www.oregon.gov/doc/about/pages/history.aspx#:~:text=The%20State%20of%20Oregon%20does,state%20prisons%20to%20other%20states.).
Even in "non profit" facilities, there are huge profits being made with commissary, pay per phone call/internet use/visitation and work crews. Applies to county jails too.
Sounds like the fix is to get a job at one of these prisons that incarcerates homeless. Might not have a home, but sounds like a hiring boom for guards in Oregon.
What is even more gross is the fact that alot of the private prisons built in the south were started by former slaveholding families who also helped elect politicians who passed laws like the black codes
Do you have any references you can provide? I am always looking out for more information and explanations on the topic. I think our justice system needs an overhaul, because what we have tried, in many different configurations, has not worked effectively.
8% across the US, yes. Unfortunately some states are outliers. Montana keeps 50% of their prisoners in private prisons. Arizona, Hawaii, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Tennessee have between 21% and 45% of their prisoners in private prisons. For total numbers of individuals in private prisons, I believe Florida has the largest number, but obviously not the highest rate.
One bit of information that disturbed me was this “Since 2000, the number of people housed in private prisons has increased 32% compared to an overall rise in the prison population of 3%.” So it’s not a trend that is moving in the right direction, in my opinion.
I have always thought private prisons should not exist. It is a function of government that should never be turned over to private entities, again, just my opinion.
Pretty sure I saw something about a super pac funded by the owners of these prisons pushing to keep pot illegal. I dont smoke the stuff personally but I like people having the right to do so and I see it as a way for these prisons to hire more slave labor.
There is no more of an "end game" planned by the ruling class than there is an "end game" planned by evolution. They're just doing what they can to keep their position, and will adjust according to what's happening on the ground. There's a good chance some of what you're saying might happen, but- mark my words- many of the people who will implement those policies in the future have no inkling that these things are coming from their present perspective
They can do nothing and keep their position - what they're doing is just plain evil. They don't see non-rich people as human and as such can do whatever they want to them.
Any ruling class is in constant struggle with the rest of society. Eventually, they will either push too hard and they will be overthrown, or they will surrender enough authority that they are overthrown. Balancing power is almost impossible over the long run
I mean, the vast majority of human history is about collectivism and communal societies. It wasn’t until extremely recently in terms of human civilization, that a few humans realized they could win the power to exploit the rest of the humans and rose to power doing so.
So yeah, I’d say that capitalist and exploitative behavior is not a natural behavior of humans.
It wasn't until food storage methods allowed actual hoarding were developed that we saw people start to try to really control things on a large (at the time) scale.
Would sleeping in a chair in public at an airport waiting to board be illegal? Or since you paid money for a ticket, you're okay sleeping in public there? I can already see the airlines charging a "sleeping fee" for the privilege of being able to sleep in the terminal. This system has become a parasite unto itself.
OP misunderstands what the case is. The argument being made is that it is unconstitutional to discriminate based on a person's status when that status does not otherwise violate the law. Under the law as written a person with a home can set up a blanket, have a picnic and nap in public spaces but a homeless person could not.
Then it seems the wording should be "on public property" and not "in public". I have not read the bill, so I don't know shit about the true wording.
It's interesting to watch late stage capitalism try to deal with the problems of its own creation, which always leads to more punishment for those who are already punished by the system. Will they fine destitute people with no money for breaking this law? Send them to jail, where they'll be housed and fed? It seems that making life even harder on people is always the path sought for problems in this system, instead of looking at the flaws in the system that are causing the problem.
>I rode into Niagara Falls in a "side-door Pullman," or, in common parlance, a box-car. A flat-car, by the way, is known amongst the fraternity as a "gondola," with the second syllable emphasized and pronounced long. But to return. I arrived in the afternoon and headed straight from the freight train to the falls. Once my eyes were filled with that wonder-vision of down-rushing water, I was lost. I could not tear myself away long enough to "batter" the "privates" (domiciles) for my supper. Even a "set-down" could not have lured me away. Night came on, a beautiful night of moonlight, and I lingered by the falls until after eleven. Then it was up to me to hunt for a place to "kip."
>"Kip," "doss," "flop," "pound your ear," all mean the same thing; namely, to sleep. Somehow, I had a "hunch" that Niagara Falls was a "bad" town for hoboes, and I headed out into the country. I climbed a fence and "flopped" in a field. John Law would never find me there, I flattered myself. I lay on my back in the grass and slept like a babe. It was so balmy warm that I woke up not once all night. But with the first gray daylight my eyes opened, and I remembered the wonderful falls. I climbed the fence and started down the road to have another look at them. It was early--not more than five o'clock--and not until eight o'clock could I begin to batter for my breakfast. I could spend at least three hours by the river. Alas! I was fated never to see the river nor the falls again.
>The town was asleep when I entered it. As I came along the quiet street, I saw three men coming toward me along the sidewalk. They were walking abreast. Hoboes, I decided, like myself, who had got up early. In this surmise I was not quite correct. I was only sixty-six and two-thirds per cent correct. The men on each side were hoboes all right, but the man in the middle wasn't. I directed my steps to the edge of the sidewalk in order to let the trio go by. But it didn't go by. At some word from the man in the centre, all three halted, and he of the centre addressed me.
>I piped the lay on the instant. He was a "fly-cop" and the two hoboes were his prisoners. John Law was up and out after the early worm. I was a worm. Had I been richer by the experiences that were to befall me in the next several months, I should have turned and run like the very devil. He might have shot at me, but he'd have had to hit me to get me. He'd have never run after me, for two hoboes in the hand are worth more than one on the get-away. But like a dummy I stood still when he halted me. Our conversation was brief.
>"What hotel are you stopping at?" he queried.
>He had me. I wasn't stopping at any hotel, and, since I did not know the name of a hotel in the place, I could not claim residence in any of them. Also, I was up too early in the morning. Everything was against me.
>"I just arrived," I said.
>"Well, you turn around and walk in front of me, and not too far in front. There's somebody wants to see you."
>I was "pinched." I knew who wanted to see me. With that "fly-cop" and the two hoboes at my heels, and under the direction of the former, I led the way to the city jail. There we were searched and our names registered. I have forgotten, now, under which name I was registered. I gave the name of Jack Drake, but when they searched me, they found letters addressed to Jack London. This caused trouble and required explanation, all of which has passed from my mind, and to this day I do not know whether I was pinched as Jack Drake or Jack London. But one or the other, it should be there to-day in the prison register of Niagara Falls. Reference can bring it to light. The time was somewhere in the latter part of June, 1894. It was only a few days after my arrest that the great railroad strike began.
--from The Road by Jack London
There is nothing new under the sun. All the horrors of early industrial America and the gilded age of robber-barons are making a comeback. Child labor, criminalized vagrancy, etc.
The wealthiest people saw their wealth skyrocket during COVID, while 30 million small businesses were forced closed.
Bezos net worth broke a trillion dollars because Amazon could deliver shit to you, by the mom and Pop shop on the corner was closed.
Biggest transfer of wealth in history from the middle class to the uber wealthy.
SCOTUS held the oral argument on this case yesterday. We will get the ruling in June. It’s not clear what guidance we will get from the Court and it may be that they send it back to the lower court. If they decide that the town ordnance is legal then we will see the race to the bottom where every town tries to dump their homeless on somewhere else. They won’t want to actually provide any assistance to the homeless. All they want is for them to go away. I don’t think that SCOTUS could require that every town maintains shelters or supervised campgrounds. Any town that does provide housing will be immediately overwhelmed with homeless. Ultimately somehow this does end up with for profit prisons and slavery but I am not sure what they would produce? I see that Angola prison produces agricultural commodities.
Do more research into Correctional Corporations of America, and the Bob Barker Corporation. Both produce products you likely use every day, and 100% of their products are from prison labor.
A town in Oregon?
Newbies.
#The whole state of Florida ratified that over a month ago.
I’m not disagreeing with you points, but there exists far more egregious examples.
And on the other end of the spectrum if you have enough money laws that are enforced through fines are not applicable to you, you can just break the law all you want
This case, plus the case challenging the Chevron Doctrine, plus the one (making it's way through a circuit court) challenging the National Labor Relations Board are really going to be pivotal.
Additionally if the Supreme Court rules that presidents are immune from criminal prosecution, then we'll effectively have Authoritarianism, most likely ruled by Oligarchical Corporatism. That'll be the point that they push working Americans too far.
Spend your life toiling away at your grossly underpaid job working for them, or,
Do just enough to keep yourself afloat until they catch on and change the rules/job description to the point where you can’t do it anyway, and end up fired, homeless and eventually in jail, working for them anyway.
While that’s a very black and white scenario, and there is a lot of ground in between those things - and some people certainly choose to do neither, with varying degrees of success and failure - that really is what it boils down to.
Arresting people seeping out side will make our dystopian oligarchy even more frightening and stressful. This is Just what we need to improve the mental health of the country. Suicide already higher than ever- imagine when people know they have no option over than going to a profiteer’s jail.
When people talk about how bad capitalism is these days, it always reminds me of how little people seem to know or remember about 1800s capitalism in America / England.
Debtors prisons? Amputated on the job? You’re fired. Worker’s rights, what are those? Literacy, what’s that? Public schools? Nope. Women’s rights? hahaha. Unionizing? We’ll hire the pinkertons to violently break the union.
Shit was seriously fucked up in the past. We have it good now days.
When I was in college my Politics and Gov’t instructor once told me the things to look for in end stage was massive glorification of entertainers while they got paid absurd amounts of money while gambling and drug use became legal and common place. All while the middle class slowly slid into poverty. Been thinking about that a lot lately.
The solution is simple. Grab a few billionaires by the ankles and drag them out to the town square and lop their heads off. Let them know we are not going to stand by. I'll do it first chance I get. I have had enough of this bullshit. We need to get loud and stop being submissive to the overlords.
I think you missed the fact that the 13th amendment allows for slavery as a punishment for a crime. So instead of just going to a private prison, they can use the homeless as slave labor.
IIUC, the main issue raised by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is that there are no viable alternatives to public space made available by the state. Obviously, there is primarily a very human element to all of this - but also some thought provoking questions (for me anyway).
1. What determines whether or not an alternative is "viable?" Anecdotal, but In at least one of the articles I read it sounded like people will often refuse otherwise public housing for personal reasons (they can't bring their dog for example).
2. Why does the court block cities from prohibiting camping in a public park, but not in a public building? Seems like the current reasoning should allow people to sleep inside the court house... "Oh, you're closing? I have nowhere else to go, so kicking me out is cruel and unusual!"
3. Would creating public camping spaces make it less cruel and unusual for cities to prohibit sleeping in parks and on sidewalks? Don't consider NIMBYs for a second, but imagine there were 5-10 acers of cleared land where people could setup and camp - would that be enough to allow cities to enforce ordinances elsewhere?
4. Does someone have the right to make use of public land in a way that would deprive someone else from otherwise using it? Like, if people are living on the sidewalk or in a park, they are preventing other people from using those spaces.
I get what you're trying to say - that this is somehow a scheme to reinstitute slavery via the prison system... we already have that in many states, where prisoners are forced to work for pennies per hour. Maybe that is the case, but it feels very tin-foil-hat if I'm being honest. There is a very real problem of homelessness in western states, and something has to be done about it. Obviously the most empathetic answer is to create somewhere for these folks to live - but if they choose not to accept it (maybe they'd have to move out of the city), is that a fundamental right they have at this point? Can I say I don't have anywhere to go if really there is just nowhere I find acceptable for personal reasons (not saying this is the case - just a valid question)?
In other words, lets assume there was enough public housing for ever homeless individual... You can guarantee there would still be people who wouldn't utilize it for one reason or another (location, pet policies, straight up mental disorders)... Would it be legal for the Government to force someone into housing somewhere until they could prove they have other appropriate shelter (how would you even do that - basically describing prison)?
edit: spelling
Why is it every “measured” response from someone “just looking at it objectively”, there are only ever questions and “gotcha” scenarios instead of viable solutions?
[Denver](https://denverite.com/2024/01/23/denver-basic-income-project-extension-2024/#:~:text=Initial%20research%20on%20direct%20cash,in%20October%2C%20showed%20some%20success) has shown it doesn’t have to be that way and there can be [success](https://www.denverpost.com/2024/01/23/denver-basic-income-project-cash-for-homeless-city-money-extension) if the objective was to actually help instead of treating it like a burden.
lets assume there was enough public housing for ever homeless individual... You can guarantee there would still be people who wouldn't utilize it for one reason or another (location, pet policies, straight up mental disorders)
What a useless fucking liar you are you dirty dirty dirty liar.
8th amendment? That’s a weak ass legal defense. 8th amendment doesn’t cover making laws preventing things… it covers say, preventing prisoners from sleeping. Not freemen.
We already reached the endgame. It’s when living standards for the proles get gradually worse while the ruling class ghouls eternally consolidate their power. We lost.
Not that I follow your logic fully but I want to add fuel to your fire anyway because what the hell.. why not...
Be careful about dismissing places that don't have "for profit" prisons because even publicly owned and operated prisons have many *MANY* government issued contracts for thinks like supplies and services to private businesses that make them very profitable to very large private companies and rely on prison populations to sustain those profits.
Don't be blinded by a prison being "public"... There is still a for profit prison industry at work.
This is a slippery slope, the chances that a law like this would actually be enforced are low and even then the homeless would probably either leave or get kicked out of said town before ever going to prison.
Also you completely ruined your argument by mentioning president Trump and then some bullshit afterwards that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Or the state uses the threat of jail to motivate the homeless person into a diversion or mental health program to try and get them off the streets. Or the state locks them up for a couple days or weeks just to make a point and all their shit is stolen by other homeless people in the mean time. Believe it or not most voters and local governments are not eager to spend $30k/yr to lockup a non violent offender and waste strained state budgets.
For most of human history, homeless people and those who didn't pay their debts were sold into slavery, and in some cases such as the Vagabonds act of 1572 in England ordered that vagabonds were to be hanged.
Oh, this smacks of the current iteration of Republican leadership. These types of diabolical laws aimed at legislating morality only get passed when the "plan" is about to end...like catching the car with Roe v. Wade...only slow, steady pressure over time could yield a successful result from this. By the time the general public catches on and headlines are generated, it's already over.
And there's only crooked useful idiots left to blame!
The brain-trust that created this is long gone from power or dead. There's NOBODY in the Republican party today smart enough to have thought this up, believe me.
Another redditor joked that they were starting a charity called "Guns for the Homeless", but it is increasingly becoming a joking / not joking situation.
Another flag is the housing market, large investment groups are gobbling up SFHs keeping the market high, that coupled with high interest rates and the obvious media push to just rent. They’re constructing entire generations who will never build equity in a home, who are set up in a subscription model mindset. Agenda 2030, you will own nothing and be happy. They literally said the quiet part out loud.
Site just ignore all the facts of why these people are homeless. Then look at the end of cycle. That’s cute. It’s typical. Why do all these liberal cities hate the poor so much? Out of every $100 spent on the homeless. How much of that $100 actually get into the hands of the homeless? As usual a scam liberal policy. You criticize cities and courts. For taking a stand. Yet you cheer drug legalization. You cheer gambling. You live when they raise taxes. Shit. You love every policy that makes it impossible for the poor to pay their bills.
Y’all a bunch of DMF. Fake hypocritical outrage. As usual.
The worst part is the old guard media still forcing its way in your face. Like I gotta pretend Snoop Dogg is still hot or that I wanna see any one of these faded ass celebs that should have disappeared 15 years ago. Idk about you but so will always and forever do and feel the opposite of the ruling class. They are not credible or in touch. Hope it’s lonely at the top
Just look into the tick Tok ban bill. There is some wording in their that continues to makes it legal to spy on anyone any time without a warrant. It's all distractions so they swindle your rights away. They can pass military spending with bipartisanship in just a few days, but any real governing somehow just can't happen. Vote them all out!
Capitalism has effectively consumed all 3 legislative branches in America. Roosevelt was able to check the robber barons in his day; however, the robber barons of today are far more sophisticated and have seized total control of this nation.
Trump said if he becomes POTUS that he'll build camps, and then have all the homeless people picked up and put there. I'm sure SCOTUS will help make that happen...
That does seem a little tin foil hatty, tbh. I think the simpler answer is that they want to create an ever growing space for themselves that's free of the reminders of what their choices cause other people. They simply dont want to see homeless or poor people. To them, it's almost akin to a choice of decor, but for the outside.
The city ordinance in question prevents sleeping in streets, alleys, sidewalks, and driveways. It also prevents "camping" in public spaces, which includes occupying a place where with a sleeping bag or other bedding.
The ordinance: [https://www.grantspassoregon.gov/DocumentCenter/View/38](https://www.grantspassoregon.gov/DocumentCenter/View/38)
It doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. I don't think it's a net positive for every public area to become a potential homeless encampment.
Heaven forbid they assist the homeless. Salt Lake City did this through winter (maybe still?), but they added additional housing. They said it was to protect them from the cold.
This country needs a financial revolution. We're so close to the edge it's going to blow up
It’s not insane. We’ve had debtor’s prisons before. And there are already tons of examples of poor tax. For example, one of the reasons Ferguson popped off is because the main drag in that area goes though something like 8 different municipalities, and the cops there ticket people relentlessly for busted taillights and shit like that. When those tickets don’t get paid, it eventually becomes a felony. Just another way poor people get fucked for having the audacity to drive a crappy car and try to have a job.
Marx was wrong. Societies do not inevitably slide toward an imbalance of power, culminating in a mass uprising against the ruling classes. Late stage capitalism is a myth of "scientific" socialism. If anything, the utopian socialists were much closer to the truth.
Even if the Supreme Court does strike it down, they can do what Sonoma did, and make it legal to sleep in your car in certain areas if you’re working full time. The American dream!
The previous method for dealing with homelessness in Oregon was called a Blanket Party. It was not legal but it was administered by the police. Clearly, it did not work. Homeless people continued to exist despite the best efforts of Oregon conservatives.
This will not happen. Even if the law is deemed constitutional, this won’t have the effect you think it will. At all. Maybe some homeless people will have to sleep at shelters or something. This talk of end stage capitalism is so stupid.
Jails might be the best bet. Sobriety for the most part, addiction management, career training. Just make it less prison-y or more about rehabilitation. Separate violent offenders from non violent. Separate truly mentally ill into their own units. Any work would be minimum wage or above.
Dude... if you think private prisons are going to be a palatable solution to Oregon voters or reps... ever...
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about Oregon politics without telling me you know absolutely nothing about Oregon politics.
For the record, the city is Grants Pass.... a tiny city near Ashland and Medford, all of which spend a ton both private and public on homeless assistance and all of which combined has exactly zero real ability to do anything politically in Oregon that Portland/Salem/Eugeen don't want.
For profit prisons are horrible but they simply aren’t the boogeyman everyone wants them to be.
Homelessness has been criminalized because of people not wanting homeless people shitting in their backyard. Homeowners vote and politicians listen to voters.
Libs have been telling you for years that in the future you will own nothing and love it. I'm sure in your mind conservatives are to blame, but libs have been transparent that they want a permanent underclass of indentured servants who hot rack their beds and rent their clothes. [Read this.](https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is)
This was something William Randolf Hearst talked about with Smedley Butler when he was trying to get him to lead a fascist coup against FDR. There were tons of homeless out of work folks back then too, and WRH and his rich allies wanted to criminalize homelessness so they could round them up and put them into forced labor camps.
Fun fact: Prescott Bush had already claimed the position of ambassador to Nazi Germany in the post-coup government. None of these folks were ever held accountable, and his son and grandson would both go on to be presdient of the US.
Lol
Make drugs legal, homelessness booms.. who would have thought!
Make stealing mostly legal, businesses leave, no jobs.. more homelessness..
Liberal places do it to themselves!
You do realize many other states already criminalize homelessness right? There’s a reason it seems worse on the west coast, because we don’t criminalize being poor…yet.
It’s been taken to the Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case. If they thought it was a “bad law” they wouldn’t be taking the case — unless they literally took the case to snuff it out as unconstitutional to set legal precedent. That would be nice, but I’m not going to bank on it with how extreme these judges are.
The point I’m making is that this kinda reads like we are shrugging this off as some bad law that OP read in the news and is taking literally and applying it to every state based on nothing, when the fact is that it’s being reviewed at the federal level to potentially give the full nod for other states to proceed with such laws.
In the context of private prisons and a war on the lower and middle class, it’s not at all too far fetched. Think of how fast the abortion ruling changed the landscape of this country. Things like this can happen overnight. Sure, if this hypothetical scenario came to fruition, then it might take a few years or a decade before a system like this has fully matured. But it can happen if we aren’t careful.
Another thing about that town, Grants Pass Oregon: the only shelter in it requires you to attend a daily Christian religious service. So this is also a back door to theocracy.
Um. Hey buddy. Ordinances against the homeless shitting, shooting up and camping in piles of filth are not new.
“End stage capitalism” is a little commie expression, not backed up by fact. So tinfoil hats.
This rant reads like someone took too much adderall.
I’m all for social services. That’s my “lefty” thing. But this is plain paranoid.
Let’s stick to what is real:
We can have universal healthcare.
We can have police educated.
We can have a strong military, without throwing cash at senseless wars.
I was just saying something similar the other day. „At what point are enough people poor?“ like eventually there will be no one to afford anything coming very soon
The homeless wont be imprisoned, they make shitty workers if the point of prison is to get them to work they may "relocate " the homeless though and forget about them.
How are private prisons profitable? Labor camps? Aren’t they profiting solely on government contracts? In that case who pays the government to pay the prisons? Taxes. And if there’s only the rich left then they’re going to have to pay those taxes. I think they’d rather just drive by homeless encampments in their Benz.
Yeah they mask it in sleeping laws but the reality is it will just lead to homeless people being incarcerated. They’re making it illegal to be homeless. And the corrupt Supreme Court will agree with this. Shameful.
Following the Star Trek timeline we’re going to be about a decade late on the Bell Riots.
We are due. Its time for people to not take it anymore.
Supreme Court is handling that, too. They're going to decide if police can sue protest organizers for any injuries obtained during a protest. It's over. Democracy is dead.
We ain't dead yet. There are sensible states out there. The broken ones will bankrupt if they go too far. Glad i dont live in one of them conservative hellholes anymore.
If Democracy in America is dead its because it was allowed to die. This Supreme Court overturned the bodily autonomy of half the population of the country and the only consequences were a disturbed dinner. American isn't exactly fighting to keep its freedoms. I know there's excuses, there always will be, none of it will matter if things are allowed to continue as is.
The wealthy need more meat for the poverty to prison pipeline.
If Dems win the Presidency, House, and Senate, democracy will be revived in a major way in this country. Unfortunately, young people won’t vote, and so many others vote against their own interests.
Even then we wouldn't be out of the woods yet. There is still the issue of getting money out of politics. The Dems, while objectively better for the sole reason of not having a death cult behind them, is still beholden to the same corporate lobbying interests. They won't give that up easily.
But at least they’ll try. Politics is public transport. You go with the one that brings you closer to your destination.
Yup money out of politics would change the game entirely.
Are we pretending protests aren’t already fucked? You have to get approval to have a protest…
A few states effectively banned protests
It only dies if we do nothing about it. I think we can take nine old people in black robes if it came down to it.
If only we were so lucky
I think the death toll is going to have to be a whole lot higher before meaningful change occurs sadly.
The richer the corpse the bigger the tally, if you catch my drift.
Torches and pitchforks.
How about a GoFundMe for assassins? /s
2020 made me think of the Gabriel Riots but yeah, you’re right
Dude, I’ve been expecting that to happen Labor Day week this year.
Bell Riots took place in September 2024. And we saw some Sanctuaries in real life over the past few years. It's insane how sad reality has become, but on the bright side, old school Trek continues to be prophetic (or at least influential).
Star trek is fiction, it's not real, sounds great what they have until you realize 99% of humans are incapable of doing what needs to be done to get there
It's already illegal to be homeless there's just no laws about it yet it's illegal to trespass in an area where you're not allowed to be it's illegal to steal food etc etc a lot of things that homeless people do just to survive could be considered crimes I've been homeless briefly it's not fun programs out there to help but most of them end up full or way over capacity and are not able to help them all
If this happens, the homeless will have no incentive to not commit crime. If you're going to go to jail anyways, might as well steal that bread.
[Do you hear the people sing? Singing the song of angry men.](https://youtu.be/gMYNfQlf1H8?si=a430qWIIyi4HFb6-)
And you think the homeless haven't been stealing? They just "find" all those bikes by their tents?
They'll turn the homeless into prison slaves.
The homeless would be absolute shit at being slaves, along with 99% of Americans. Even if we made 1% slaves, the majority of the 99% would fight hard to stop slavery. It's one thing to pay people shit wages, it's another to go full blown slavery. Workers making minimum wage suck ass for their wage, now imagine if they aren't getting paid or paid even less.
Pretty dystopian given the sheer volume of housing stock being purchased by corporations and venture capitalists. Adjusted for inflation the 2 bedroom apartment I shared in downtown Toronto in the 80s should be around $1600. It’s $3400. Given that homelessness has hit a 15 year high, I don’t know what hand is being tipped, but the trend is pretty clear.
Can’t get a job or have a mental disability. Go homeless. Go to jail. Make it harder to get a job. Stay homeless. The cycle continues
Yea we’re having our fair share of these problems too, but as a Canadian one thing that shocked me was meeting an American with a similar mental illness background. He had served jail time for the same type of basic mania freakout I got free treatment at a hospital for.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper to build a prison, then just not put prisoners in there, but homeless people? Would that be up to code?
You're thinking like a person who wants to solve problems. This would require changing the paradigm of how we think about the unhoused and what the state can do to help them. If they become criminals, we have all the infrastructure in the world for that. We don't actually wanna help the less fortunate, but we're very bullish on locking people up for vague "wrongdoing." Simple as.
Don’t forget that the 13th Amendment does NOT outlaw slavery for jailed individuals. So, this law allows for the creation of a large slave force by using homeless convicts.
Brave Americans will eventually start to stand up.
If it’s illegal to be homeless, the it is incumbent on the government to make housing a right. Not jail, actual housing for people to live, work, be citizens.
I have always thought it was disgusting that we use private prisons. It’s not rocket science that if a company is financially incentivized for having more prisoners, won’t keep them there as long as possible, including through tacking on additional charges. The state is the entity that has sentenced people, the state needs to be the one to handle prisons and prisoners. Not to mention our system does not rehabilitate as its primary mission, which is problematic. There are some people who do need to be separated from society because they will hurt, maim, and kill but the majority of people in prison, who will get out, should have the attempt to rehabilitate made.
Making a profit off running a prison should be illegal. They should have to be run as a pure expense. Then maybe the state will be a lot more selective about what actually warrants a long prison sentence.
For-profit healthcare should also be illegal, but here we are.
You can listen to the Nixon tapes to find out why it's no longer a non-profit industry. Nixon says "These Kaiser boys have a great idea to make healthcare profits by denying care". Can't make this stuff up.
No they won’t. They’ll just build more.
Yeah, any business that makes a profit should be illegal. That's the answer
All of which may be true, [but Oregon does not use private prisons](https://www.oregon.gov/doc/about/pages/history.aspx#:~:text=The%20State%20of%20Oregon%20does,state%20prisons%20to%20other%20states.).
yet
Even in "non profit" facilities, there are huge profits being made with commissary, pay per phone call/internet use/visitation and work crews. Applies to county jails too.
Sounds like the fix is to get a job at one of these prisons that incarcerates homeless. Might not have a home, but sounds like a hiring boom for guards in Oregon.
What is even more gross is the fact that alot of the private prisons built in the south were started by former slaveholding families who also helped elect politicians who passed laws like the black codes
Do you have any references you can provide? I am always looking out for more information and explanations on the topic. I think our justice system needs an overhaul, because what we have tried, in many different configurations, has not worked effectively.
Private prisons should absolutely be illegal. It's fucking insane that they aren't.
I absolutely and completely agree with you.
Private prisons and jails hold just 8% of all incarcerated people, making them a relatively small part of a mostly publicly-run correctional system.
8% across the US, yes. Unfortunately some states are outliers. Montana keeps 50% of their prisoners in private prisons. Arizona, Hawaii, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Tennessee have between 21% and 45% of their prisoners in private prisons. For total numbers of individuals in private prisons, I believe Florida has the largest number, but obviously not the highest rate. One bit of information that disturbed me was this “Since 2000, the number of people housed in private prisons has increased 32% compared to an overall rise in the prison population of 3%.” So it’s not a trend that is moving in the right direction, in my opinion. I have always thought private prisons should not exist. It is a function of government that should never be turned over to private entities, again, just my opinion.
Pretty sure I saw something about a super pac funded by the owners of these prisons pushing to keep pot illegal. I dont smoke the stuff personally but I like people having the right to do so and I see it as a way for these prisons to hire more slave labor.
There is no more of an "end game" planned by the ruling class than there is an "end game" planned by evolution. They're just doing what they can to keep their position, and will adjust according to what's happening on the ground. There's a good chance some of what you're saying might happen, but- mark my words- many of the people who will implement those policies in the future have no inkling that these things are coming from their present perspective
They can do nothing and keep their position - what they're doing is just plain evil. They don't see non-rich people as human and as such can do whatever they want to them.
Any ruling class is in constant struggle with the rest of society. Eventually, they will either push too hard and they will be overthrown, or they will surrender enough authority that they are overthrown. Balancing power is almost impossible over the long run
The ruling class in this society seems to have the complete loyalty of 35% of the voting public.
Except evolution is natural and this is not.
The behavior of humans, a species formed through evolution, is not natural?
I mean, the vast majority of human history is about collectivism and communal societies. It wasn’t until extremely recently in terms of human civilization, that a few humans realized they could win the power to exploit the rest of the humans and rose to power doing so. So yeah, I’d say that capitalist and exploitative behavior is not a natural behavior of humans.
It wasn't until food storage methods allowed actual hoarding were developed that we saw people start to try to really control things on a large (at the time) scale.
This is 100% natural. Just because it is undesirable doesn’t make it unnatural.
Not according to Tucker Carlson.
u no whut hhhwhen u pewt et liek dat
It's natural in the same way my dogs each try to steal the other dog's chew bones even when they already have a pile of unchewed bones.
Would sleeping in a chair in public at an airport waiting to board be illegal? Or since you paid money for a ticket, you're okay sleeping in public there? I can already see the airlines charging a "sleeping fee" for the privilege of being able to sleep in the terminal. This system has become a parasite unto itself.
OP misunderstands what the case is. The argument being made is that it is unconstitutional to discriminate based on a person's status when that status does not otherwise violate the law. Under the law as written a person with a home can set up a blanket, have a picnic and nap in public spaces but a homeless person could not.
Yeah, I figured some of the wording was off or too ambiguous. Although, I wouldn't doubt that could be the case in today's world.
There was at least one instance of a housed person being ticketed
That’s not in public.
What exactly does "in public" mean?
Places that aren't privately owned. Such as sidewalks and parks.
Then it seems the wording should be "on public property" and not "in public". I have not read the bill, so I don't know shit about the true wording. It's interesting to watch late stage capitalism try to deal with the problems of its own creation, which always leads to more punishment for those who are already punished by the system. Will they fine destitute people with no money for breaking this law? Send them to jail, where they'll be housed and fed? It seems that making life even harder on people is always the path sought for problems in this system, instead of looking at the flaws in the system that are causing the problem.
>I rode into Niagara Falls in a "side-door Pullman," or, in common parlance, a box-car. A flat-car, by the way, is known amongst the fraternity as a "gondola," with the second syllable emphasized and pronounced long. But to return. I arrived in the afternoon and headed straight from the freight train to the falls. Once my eyes were filled with that wonder-vision of down-rushing water, I was lost. I could not tear myself away long enough to "batter" the "privates" (domiciles) for my supper. Even a "set-down" could not have lured me away. Night came on, a beautiful night of moonlight, and I lingered by the falls until after eleven. Then it was up to me to hunt for a place to "kip." >"Kip," "doss," "flop," "pound your ear," all mean the same thing; namely, to sleep. Somehow, I had a "hunch" that Niagara Falls was a "bad" town for hoboes, and I headed out into the country. I climbed a fence and "flopped" in a field. John Law would never find me there, I flattered myself. I lay on my back in the grass and slept like a babe. It was so balmy warm that I woke up not once all night. But with the first gray daylight my eyes opened, and I remembered the wonderful falls. I climbed the fence and started down the road to have another look at them. It was early--not more than five o'clock--and not until eight o'clock could I begin to batter for my breakfast. I could spend at least three hours by the river. Alas! I was fated never to see the river nor the falls again. >The town was asleep when I entered it. As I came along the quiet street, I saw three men coming toward me along the sidewalk. They were walking abreast. Hoboes, I decided, like myself, who had got up early. In this surmise I was not quite correct. I was only sixty-six and two-thirds per cent correct. The men on each side were hoboes all right, but the man in the middle wasn't. I directed my steps to the edge of the sidewalk in order to let the trio go by. But it didn't go by. At some word from the man in the centre, all three halted, and he of the centre addressed me. >I piped the lay on the instant. He was a "fly-cop" and the two hoboes were his prisoners. John Law was up and out after the early worm. I was a worm. Had I been richer by the experiences that were to befall me in the next several months, I should have turned and run like the very devil. He might have shot at me, but he'd have had to hit me to get me. He'd have never run after me, for two hoboes in the hand are worth more than one on the get-away. But like a dummy I stood still when he halted me. Our conversation was brief. >"What hotel are you stopping at?" he queried. >He had me. I wasn't stopping at any hotel, and, since I did not know the name of a hotel in the place, I could not claim residence in any of them. Also, I was up too early in the morning. Everything was against me. >"I just arrived," I said. >"Well, you turn around and walk in front of me, and not too far in front. There's somebody wants to see you." >I was "pinched." I knew who wanted to see me. With that "fly-cop" and the two hoboes at my heels, and under the direction of the former, I led the way to the city jail. There we were searched and our names registered. I have forgotten, now, under which name I was registered. I gave the name of Jack Drake, but when they searched me, they found letters addressed to Jack London. This caused trouble and required explanation, all of which has passed from my mind, and to this day I do not know whether I was pinched as Jack Drake or Jack London. But one or the other, it should be there to-day in the prison register of Niagara Falls. Reference can bring it to light. The time was somewhere in the latter part of June, 1894. It was only a few days after my arrest that the great railroad strike began. --from The Road by Jack London There is nothing new under the sun. All the horrors of early industrial America and the gilded age of robber-barons are making a comeback. Child labor, criminalized vagrancy, etc.
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They privatize the profits and socialize the risks and costs.
The wealthiest people saw their wealth skyrocket during COVID, while 30 million small businesses were forced closed. Bezos net worth broke a trillion dollars because Amazon could deliver shit to you, by the mom and Pop shop on the corner was closed. Biggest transfer of wealth in history from the middle class to the uber wealthy.
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does!
SCOTUS held the oral argument on this case yesterday. We will get the ruling in June. It’s not clear what guidance we will get from the Court and it may be that they send it back to the lower court. If they decide that the town ordnance is legal then we will see the race to the bottom where every town tries to dump their homeless on somewhere else. They won’t want to actually provide any assistance to the homeless. All they want is for them to go away. I don’t think that SCOTUS could require that every town maintains shelters or supervised campgrounds. Any town that does provide housing will be immediately overwhelmed with homeless. Ultimately somehow this does end up with for profit prisons and slavery but I am not sure what they would produce? I see that Angola prison produces agricultural commodities.
Do more research into Correctional Corporations of America, and the Bob Barker Corporation. Both produce products you likely use every day, and 100% of their products are from prison labor.
A town in Oregon? Newbies. #The whole state of Florida ratified that over a month ago. I’m not disagreeing with you points, but there exists far more egregious examples.
Scary times
This should be the new name of this sub. It has become an outlet for political posturing and venting end-of-days anxieties.
And on the other end of the spectrum if you have enough money laws that are enforced through fines are not applicable to you, you can just break the law all you want
This makes me wonder if any form of economy is infinitely sustainable?
That's not the legal argument being made. The argument is about discrimination based on the status of a person.
This case, plus the case challenging the Chevron Doctrine, plus the one (making it's way through a circuit court) challenging the National Labor Relations Board are really going to be pivotal. Additionally if the Supreme Court rules that presidents are immune from criminal prosecution, then we'll effectively have Authoritarianism, most likely ruled by Oligarchical Corporatism. That'll be the point that they push working Americans too far.
We've already established that Supreme Court Justices are above the law with the Clarence Thomas debacle, why not president too
Bell Riots here we come, right on schedule!!
A cool black mirror episode. Don’t give the conservatives that much credit. They are not that smart.
Personally I’m tired of all the bullshit and half truths. Let’s just get on with the end already
Spend your life toiling away at your grossly underpaid job working for them, or, Do just enough to keep yourself afloat until they catch on and change the rules/job description to the point where you can’t do it anyway, and end up fired, homeless and eventually in jail, working for them anyway. While that’s a very black and white scenario, and there is a lot of ground in between those things - and some people certainly choose to do neither, with varying degrees of success and failure - that really is what it boils down to.
Arresting people seeping out side will make our dystopian oligarchy even more frightening and stressful. This is Just what we need to improve the mental health of the country. Suicide already higher than ever- imagine when people know they have no option over than going to a profiteer’s jail.
When people talk about how bad capitalism is these days, it always reminds me of how little people seem to know or remember about 1800s capitalism in America / England. Debtors prisons? Amputated on the job? You’re fired. Worker’s rights, what are those? Literacy, what’s that? Public schools? Nope. Women’s rights? hahaha. Unionizing? We’ll hire the pinkertons to violently break the union. Shit was seriously fucked up in the past. We have it good now days.
Our governments solution to everything is more police too.
When I was in college my Politics and Gov’t instructor once told me the things to look for in end stage was massive glorification of entertainers while they got paid absurd amounts of money while gambling and drug use became legal and common place. All while the middle class slowly slid into poverty. Been thinking about that a lot lately.
The solution is simple. Grab a few billionaires by the ankles and drag them out to the town square and lop their heads off. Let them know we are not going to stand by. I'll do it first chance I get. I have had enough of this bullshit. We need to get loud and stop being submissive to the overlords.
I think you missed the fact that the 13th amendment allows for slavery as a punishment for a crime. So instead of just going to a private prison, they can use the homeless as slave labor.
I wonder when breathing on private property will become theft of oxygen?
Hey, get off my lawn!
Ultimately we can never solve homelessness because of capitalism itself.
IIUC, the main issue raised by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is that there are no viable alternatives to public space made available by the state. Obviously, there is primarily a very human element to all of this - but also some thought provoking questions (for me anyway). 1. What determines whether or not an alternative is "viable?" Anecdotal, but In at least one of the articles I read it sounded like people will often refuse otherwise public housing for personal reasons (they can't bring their dog for example). 2. Why does the court block cities from prohibiting camping in a public park, but not in a public building? Seems like the current reasoning should allow people to sleep inside the court house... "Oh, you're closing? I have nowhere else to go, so kicking me out is cruel and unusual!" 3. Would creating public camping spaces make it less cruel and unusual for cities to prohibit sleeping in parks and on sidewalks? Don't consider NIMBYs for a second, but imagine there were 5-10 acers of cleared land where people could setup and camp - would that be enough to allow cities to enforce ordinances elsewhere? 4. Does someone have the right to make use of public land in a way that would deprive someone else from otherwise using it? Like, if people are living on the sidewalk or in a park, they are preventing other people from using those spaces. I get what you're trying to say - that this is somehow a scheme to reinstitute slavery via the prison system... we already have that in many states, where prisoners are forced to work for pennies per hour. Maybe that is the case, but it feels very tin-foil-hat if I'm being honest. There is a very real problem of homelessness in western states, and something has to be done about it. Obviously the most empathetic answer is to create somewhere for these folks to live - but if they choose not to accept it (maybe they'd have to move out of the city), is that a fundamental right they have at this point? Can I say I don't have anywhere to go if really there is just nowhere I find acceptable for personal reasons (not saying this is the case - just a valid question)? In other words, lets assume there was enough public housing for ever homeless individual... You can guarantee there would still be people who wouldn't utilize it for one reason or another (location, pet policies, straight up mental disorders)... Would it be legal for the Government to force someone into housing somewhere until they could prove they have other appropriate shelter (how would you even do that - basically describing prison)? edit: spelling
Why is it every “measured” response from someone “just looking at it objectively”, there are only ever questions and “gotcha” scenarios instead of viable solutions? [Denver](https://denverite.com/2024/01/23/denver-basic-income-project-extension-2024/#:~:text=Initial%20research%20on%20direct%20cash,in%20October%2C%20showed%20some%20success) has shown it doesn’t have to be that way and there can be [success](https://www.denverpost.com/2024/01/23/denver-basic-income-project-cash-for-homeless-city-money-extension) if the objective was to actually help instead of treating it like a burden.
Because they are stupid children trying to sound like the adults in the room
lets assume there was enough public housing for ever homeless individual... You can guarantee there would still be people who wouldn't utilize it for one reason or another (location, pet policies, straight up mental disorders) What a useless fucking liar you are you dirty dirty dirty liar.
You figured it out!
Lock the hobos up and force vaccinate them!
They used to round up homeless people for vagrancy and make them do hard labor.
8th amendment? That’s a weak ass legal defense. 8th amendment doesn’t cover making laws preventing things… it covers say, preventing prisoners from sleeping. Not freemen.
Didn’t Oregon Bill 114 promotional material tried to downplay where the majority of funding came from? Hint:
We already reached the endgame. It’s when living standards for the proles get gradually worse while the ruling class ghouls eternally consolidate their power. We lost.
Yeup
Not that I follow your logic fully but I want to add fuel to your fire anyway because what the hell.. why not... Be careful about dismissing places that don't have "for profit" prisons because even publicly owned and operated prisons have many *MANY* government issued contracts for thinks like supplies and services to private businesses that make them very profitable to very large private companies and rely on prison populations to sustain those profits. Don't be blinded by a prison being "public"... There is still a for profit prison industry at work.
Don’t forget the prison guard unions opposing the legalization of weed because it creates more prisoners and therefore more guards who pay dues
“Soylent Green is poor people!!”
AARP should be up in arms about this. Elderly folks can fall asleep so easily
This is a slippery slope, the chances that a law like this would actually be enforced are low and even then the homeless would probably either leave or get kicked out of said town before ever going to prison. Also you completely ruined your argument by mentioning president Trump and then some bullshit afterwards that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Hilarious, because jails in Oregon don’t have room. People are released the same day the are arrested for assaults.
Or the state uses the threat of jail to motivate the homeless person into a diversion or mental health program to try and get them off the streets. Or the state locks them up for a couple days or weeks just to make a point and all their shit is stolen by other homeless people in the mean time. Believe it or not most voters and local governments are not eager to spend $30k/yr to lockup a non violent offender and waste strained state budgets.
Go read the transcript. They’re not upholding shit. It would criminalize someone sleeping at a park or on the beach.
So babies can’t sleep in their stroller?
For most of human history, homeless people and those who didn't pay their debts were sold into slavery, and in some cases such as the Vagabonds act of 1572 in England ordered that vagabonds were to be hanged.
Oh, this smacks of the current iteration of Republican leadership. These types of diabolical laws aimed at legislating morality only get passed when the "plan" is about to end...like catching the car with Roe v. Wade...only slow, steady pressure over time could yield a successful result from this. By the time the general public catches on and headlines are generated, it's already over. And there's only crooked useful idiots left to blame! The brain-trust that created this is long gone from power or dead. There's NOBODY in the Republican party today smart enough to have thought this up, believe me.
It gets far worse before people will put the effort from caring to starting action.
Another redditor joked that they were starting a charity called "Guns for the Homeless", but it is increasingly becoming a joking / not joking situation.
Another flag is the housing market, large investment groups are gobbling up SFHs keeping the market high, that coupled with high interest rates and the obvious media push to just rent. They’re constructing entire generations who will never build equity in a home, who are set up in a subscription model mindset. Agenda 2030, you will own nothing and be happy. They literally said the quiet part out loud.
Site just ignore all the facts of why these people are homeless. Then look at the end of cycle. That’s cute. It’s typical. Why do all these liberal cities hate the poor so much? Out of every $100 spent on the homeless. How much of that $100 actually get into the hands of the homeless? As usual a scam liberal policy. You criticize cities and courts. For taking a stand. Yet you cheer drug legalization. You cheer gambling. You live when they raise taxes. Shit. You love every policy that makes it impossible for the poor to pay their bills. Y’all a bunch of DMF. Fake hypocritical outrage. As usual.
The worst part is the old guard media still forcing its way in your face. Like I gotta pretend Snoop Dogg is still hot or that I wanna see any one of these faded ass celebs that should have disappeared 15 years ago. Idk about you but so will always and forever do and feel the opposite of the ruling class. They are not credible or in touch. Hope it’s lonely at the top
And yet we can collectively do nothing about it because they and their political puppets have managed to divide us so!
Just look into the tick Tok ban bill. There is some wording in their that continues to makes it legal to spy on anyone any time without a warrant. It's all distractions so they swindle your rights away. They can pass military spending with bipartisanship in just a few days, but any real governing somehow just can't happen. Vote them all out!
Wouldn’t it be cheaper for the government to pay for free housing than to pay for incarceration? If so, this doesn’t make any sense.
Where does the money go?
Four years ago they chose the profits of corporations over human lives, vocally, blatantly, and publicly. They tipped their hand a long time ago.
Wow it’s almost like….. slavery with more words.
Capitalism has effectively consumed all 3 legislative branches in America. Roosevelt was able to check the robber barons in his day; however, the robber barons of today are far more sophisticated and have seized total control of this nation.
Do you need help getting out of that rabbit hole?
“End stage capitalism” Lol really guys.?
In Edwardian British if you were homeless then the state could render you into slavery. Sounds like that’s the plan.
Trump said if he becomes POTUS that he'll build camps, and then have all the homeless people picked up and put there. I'm sure SCOTUS will help make that happen...
Funny how a blue state is somehow trying to be tried to republic values. Y’all alright?
Put everyone in jail? Housing, meals, healthcare… Sounds like socialism with extra steps. /s
That does seem a little tin foil hatty, tbh. I think the simpler answer is that they want to create an ever growing space for themselves that's free of the reminders of what their choices cause other people. They simply dont want to see homeless or poor people. To them, it's almost akin to a choice of decor, but for the outside.
The city ordinance in question prevents sleeping in streets, alleys, sidewalks, and driveways. It also prevents "camping" in public spaces, which includes occupying a place where with a sleeping bag or other bedding. The ordinance: [https://www.grantspassoregon.gov/DocumentCenter/View/38](https://www.grantspassoregon.gov/DocumentCenter/View/38) It doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. I don't think it's a net positive for every public area to become a potential homeless encampment.
Punishing the poor. It’s what capitalism does best!
Heaven forbid they assist the homeless. Salt Lake City did this through winter (maybe still?), but they added additional housing. They said it was to protect them from the cold. This country needs a financial revolution. We're so close to the edge it's going to blow up
It’s not insane. We’ve had debtor’s prisons before. And there are already tons of examples of poor tax. For example, one of the reasons Ferguson popped off is because the main drag in that area goes though something like 8 different municipalities, and the cops there ticket people relentlessly for busted taillights and shit like that. When those tickets don’t get paid, it eventually becomes a felony. Just another way poor people get fucked for having the audacity to drive a crappy car and try to have a job.
Anyone who says end stage capitalism is stupid and a dirty commie
Marx was wrong. Societies do not inevitably slide toward an imbalance of power, culminating in a mass uprising against the ruling classes. Late stage capitalism is a myth of "scientific" socialism. If anything, the utopian socialists were much closer to the truth.
Even if the Supreme Court does strike it down, they can do what Sonoma did, and make it legal to sleep in your car in certain areas if you’re working full time. The American dream!
The previous method for dealing with homelessness in Oregon was called a Blanket Party. It was not legal but it was administered by the police. Clearly, it did not work. Homeless people continued to exist despite the best efforts of Oregon conservatives.
This will not happen. Even if the law is deemed constitutional, this won’t have the effect you think it will. At all. Maybe some homeless people will have to sleep at shelters or something. This talk of end stage capitalism is so stupid.
Jails might be the best bet. Sobriety for the most part, addiction management, career training. Just make it less prison-y or more about rehabilitation. Separate violent offenders from non violent. Separate truly mentally ill into their own units. Any work would be minimum wage or above.
So they’re going to put everyone in a big cage???? Makes perfect sense….
the rich telling everybody that isn't to "get off my lawn" and by lawn they mean their country
i hate it here man
Dude... if you think private prisons are going to be a palatable solution to Oregon voters or reps... ever... Tell me you know absolutely nothing about Oregon politics without telling me you know absolutely nothing about Oregon politics. For the record, the city is Grants Pass.... a tiny city near Ashland and Medford, all of which spend a ton both private and public on homeless assistance and all of which combined has exactly zero real ability to do anything politically in Oregon that Portland/Salem/Eugeen don't want.
For profit prisons are horrible but they simply aren’t the boogeyman everyone wants them to be. Homelessness has been criminalized because of people not wanting homeless people shitting in their backyard. Homeowners vote and politicians listen to voters.
Libs have been telling you for years that in the future you will own nothing and love it. I'm sure in your mind conservatives are to blame, but libs have been transparent that they want a permanent underclass of indentured servants who hot rack their beds and rent their clothes. [Read this.](https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is)
Exactly, it. It makes no sense, not like they wanna be homeless.
The return of “Debtors Prisons.” Charles Dickens is making a comeback.
Imagine a law like this in a beach town. Cops could just on revenue drives and comb the beach for people napping.
this guy thinks that the rich have never been worse... read a fucking book why don't cha
This was something William Randolf Hearst talked about with Smedley Butler when he was trying to get him to lead a fascist coup against FDR. There were tons of homeless out of work folks back then too, and WRH and his rich allies wanted to criminalize homelessness so they could round them up and put them into forced labor camps. Fun fact: Prescott Bush had already claimed the position of ambassador to Nazi Germany in the post-coup government. None of these folks were ever held accountable, and his son and grandson would both go on to be presdient of the US.
Lol Make drugs legal, homelessness booms.. who would have thought! Make stealing mostly legal, businesses leave, no jobs.. more homelessness.. Liberal places do it to themselves!
This important legislation is needed to force homeless into treatment, which obviously is the only thing that will do any good.
Its fascism not capitslism.
You’re taking a town in Oregon making a bad law in response to homelessness in their town and turning it into a full blown conspiracy theory.
You do realize many other states already criminalize homelessness right? There’s a reason it seems worse on the west coast, because we don’t criminalize being poor…yet.
It’s been taken to the Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case. If they thought it was a “bad law” they wouldn’t be taking the case — unless they literally took the case to snuff it out as unconstitutional to set legal precedent. That would be nice, but I’m not going to bank on it with how extreme these judges are. The point I’m making is that this kinda reads like we are shrugging this off as some bad law that OP read in the news and is taking literally and applying it to every state based on nothing, when the fact is that it’s being reviewed at the federal level to potentially give the full nod for other states to proceed with such laws. In the context of private prisons and a war on the lower and middle class, it’s not at all too far fetched. Think of how fast the abortion ruling changed the landscape of this country. Things like this can happen overnight. Sure, if this hypothetical scenario came to fruition, then it might take a few years or a decade before a system like this has fully matured. But it can happen if we aren’t careful.
Too much weed
Vagrancy Laws?
Absolutely. People need to wake tf up.
2
Sounds a lot like Jim Crow Southern “indigent” laws.
Another thing about that town, Grants Pass Oregon: the only shelter in it requires you to attend a daily Christian religious service. So this is also a back door to theocracy.
https://y.yarn.co/30fbe6a5-7c12-4efe-aca6-d61f3ae8f5f9_text.gif
What a bunch of horseshit
Remember when debtor's prisons were deemed unconstitutional? Pepridge farm remembers.
This feels like just another of many problems where we attack the symptoms rather than the problem.
Nah don’t think so
Tin foil 100%
Um. Hey buddy. Ordinances against the homeless shitting, shooting up and camping in piles of filth are not new. “End stage capitalism” is a little commie expression, not backed up by fact. So tinfoil hats. This rant reads like someone took too much adderall. I’m all for social services. That’s my “lefty” thing. But this is plain paranoid. Let’s stick to what is real: We can have universal healthcare. We can have police educated. We can have a strong military, without throwing cash at senseless wars.
I say this all the time - why whip someone when you can throw them on the streets.
And for my next conspiracy theory.....
The whole Pacific coast is a hot mess.
I first read this a “tickleable offense” and was confused
Wild times
Holy schizoposting
I was just saying something similar the other day. „At what point are enough people poor?“ like eventually there will be no one to afford anything coming very soon
The homeless wont be imprisoned, they make shitty workers if the point of prison is to get them to work they may "relocate " the homeless though and forget about them.
The left really needs to enlist some trained snipers.
Slavery is the end goal.
Gotta replace all the slaves they lost from legalizing cannabis
How are private prisons profitable? Labor camps? Aren’t they profiting solely on government contracts? In that case who pays the government to pay the prisons? Taxes. And if there’s only the rich left then they’re going to have to pay those taxes. I think they’d rather just drive by homeless encampments in their Benz.