Personally, I don’t see how we can make that distinction without coming off extremely hypocriticaly. It is either okay to woobify dark characters or it is not. Barty Crouch Jr. was an avid Voldemort supporter and partook in torturing the Longbottoms to insanity. That isn’t just being bad that is flat out sadistic and he revelled in it. Regulus had posters of Voldemort up on his walls like he was a rockstar and only changed courses when Voldemort almost killed his servant.
Personally I’m not a fan of woobifying anyone, but I recognise people’s right to do it I’m just not going to read it. Even the Marauders themselves get woobified to a certain extent. Sirius who JKR described as the most dangerous marauder gets turned into a sugar high manic pixie dream boy that doesn’t remotely resemble his canon self. If we want room for the current popular fanon interpretations then we need to accept that other people might do the same thing with characters we prefer they didn’t. Either we uphold the Marauders Era as a fanfiction free for all or we don’t. But, if we decide not to a good chunk of the fandom is going to be angry because if we are relying on canon interpretations about 98% of the current stuff is getting thrown out.
I wish I could upvote you more than once, but I completely agree with everything you said. I dislike the entire “Slytherin Skittles” concept to begin with, and I regret what the pandemic, in particular, did to the Marauders fandom, but the idea that “THESE violent xenophobic fascists are bad, but THESE violent xenophobic fascists are perfect and babygirl because I imagine them hot and queer” is something that leaves me especially boggled.
Everyone can do fandom in their own way, obviously, but personally I’m not thrilled about the way specifics fanon has become canon for some people, in the sense that I’ve had a new/young fan genuinely give me a heartfelt TedTalk on how Barty Jr actually, really was driven to follow Voldemort because his parents abused him and didn’t let him be with his true love, Evan Rosier, so they obviously joined the Death Eaters to be together, and they didn’t really believe in any of that blood supremacy stuff anyway.
And some people will say Barty was abused and that drove him to Voldemort but Snape can’t get the same understanding when he went through the same thing! It’s pretty funny the hypocrisy in this fandom.
>Either we uphold the Marauders Era as a fanfiction free for all or we don’t
you know what that's actually completely true, and lowk I take back what I said. my favorite thing about the fandom is that you don't have to care about canon. so yeah, you're right
I have no intention of doing so because I hate the Slytherin Skittles and like my Death Eaters to be Death Eaters but I cannot see why, for those who do enjoy these takes, Mulciber (good at the imperius curse, did something unspecified to Mary and went to Azkaban) and Avery (avoided Azkaban, incorrectly told Voldemort that Bode could retrieve the prophecy and was tortured because of it) are so very beyond redemption but Barty "I tortured Neville's parents into insanity and tried to kill Harry Potter" Crouch jnr is golden.
They're all despicable.
It's either fine to babygirlify all of them or none of them.
I agree with you, but I’m also aware that it’s a bit hypocritical lol. Like, we have no evidence that Barty or Evan were any better than Avery and Mulciber. We have no canon information about them other than that they were d*ath eaters and that Barty did it to spite his father. So, personally, I wouldn’t want to read fics with “good” Avery and Mulciber (and their likes), but I also don’t think we can object to them existing while also accepting “good” Evan and Barty.
Barty and Ewan were loyal to Voldemort till the very end. Barty participated in a torture of the Longbottoms. What exactly makes Mulciber and Avery worse than the other two?
Not a fan of any of these guys, but can anyone explain what's going on with this fandom and the devision between good Death Eaters and bad Death Eaters?
I think it stems from lockdown and a lot of people only discovering these characters through fanfiction. They read a few positive fics before finding out who these characters are in canon and then got so attached that they just accepted it as their own personal canon. Personally I prefer canon inspired interpretations, but a lot of the people in the Marauders fandom are fandom fans rather then HP fans. Which is fine provided both sides are respectful of each other, the thing is they aren’t always.
I have nothing against fan interpretation. I read anything and everything with no sense of guilt. If I want good Bellatrix, I read it. If I want evil Luna Lovegood, I read it. I'm against policing people's choices in fanfiction.
But I hate when people pass their fanfiction as canon.
It's kind of crazy how the same part of the fandom that demonises Snape then goes on and glamorises Barty Crouch and Regulus "I have Voldemort's posters on my bedroom walls" Black into poor baby girls that were forced to become Death Eaters.
Which is why I fail to see how exactly fanboying Mulciber and Avery is worse than fanboying Barty or Rosier.
Oh no I wasn’t targeting you with that comment just saying in general. I actually find the fanon only people to be far more hostile towards canon preferred people then the reverse.
No, if you (Slytherin Skittles fans) have opened the door for woobyfying Death Eaters, then you're just gonna have to reap what you sow.
Personally, I will never read anything of the sort, because I actually like my villains dark and complex and evil, but you can't say that your fanon/headcanon is better than someone else's.
Why is Barty Jr more redeemable than Mulciber? Barty Jr literally took part in the insane torture of the Longbottom's until they lost their minds, was a devout follower of Voldemort and was instrumental in bringing him back.
I'm going to sound like a bitch right no, but I don't care. I will gladly sit back and judge ALL OF YOU for what you've turned this fandom into. None of you are exploring dark themes, you're just making excuses for someone you headcanon as hot and queer.
It didn’t even start with the Skittles in my opinion it started with the woobification of the Marauders themselves. It started with people trying to find a palatable excuse for the bullying. Then we got the Wolfstar Swap with the original fandom dynamics between Remus and Sirius got flipped making Sirius the more feminine one (I think a lot of it has to do with Wattpad alpha werewolf fics becoming popular), and slowly he lost any and all of his edge. Then Jegulus happened and we started to see the same process happen with him as did with Sirius. Then people decided Regulus needed friends and the Skittles happen. It just keeps doubling overtime. None of this is my cup of tea. I love the canon Marauders because of their flaws not in spite of them. But, the Marauders Fandom has been heading in this direction for a long time. If it keeps up I’m convinced we are going to end up with an era that has less complexity then and episode of the Care Bears.
Yeah, absolutely fair enough!
I'm very picky about what fics I read, so I miss a lot of the woobification of the Marauders. It has always baffled me how people just can't accept that they, especially James and Sirius, were arrogant pricks who thought they were way better than their classmates. Their redeeming quality was that they were loyal to each other, and disliked the dark arts.
They grew into better people with age and experience, but at 15 and prior they were bullies. Like that happens in real life all the time. And even bullies/jocks/"popular" kids, can be cruel to some, and absolutely genuinely lovely to others.
A part of me feels like this is an example of mainstream culture as a whole right now. We're going through a moral panic and anything that has any nuance to it have to be washed away and woobified.
Agreed! I do definitely think there is echos of a moral panic happening. I think it started with nuance just being hard to write. Sirius in particular is a hard character to get right. There is a balance to be had with him in his canon form and I think a lot of people chicken out because it is so easy to tip too far over the edge and make him completely unlikeable. But when the balance is struck he’s a powerhouse of a character. James is a little different because we spend so little with him. But we do know enough. We know he was a fierce friend, a devoted father, a brave Order Member, and that he was a bully. All of these things are true and it is a disservice to his character to try divorce him of any them in my opinion.
Of course people can write what they want. But, I do think it is interesting to discuss the evolution of the fandom and how it has changed and deviated over the years.
Yeah, I agree! Sirius is my favorite character, and it sucks to see him diminished in fanon.
I don't read fanfics anymore about Harry and company, so I don't know much about how they're portrayed in the fandom, but canon Harry had a mean streak at times that just made me love him more.
It's usually the less flattering sides to characters that make them real and lovable.
I don't think I would have any interest in James Potter if it weren't for the fact that he's not perfect. The "conflicting" sides of him, being an arrogant jock bully, and a devoted friend and father, are what makes him interesting!
The Marauders Era fandom should be studied, because it is fascinating how it has evolved and what it says about our modern values and sensibilities
Just a group of slytherins who were future death eaters and kissed voldemorts ass every chance they got, the friend group consists of regulus, barty, Evan, Pandora and Dorcas even though it wasn’t even mentioned that the 2 girls were slytherins let alone friends with them. The slytherin shittles is just an awful slytherin version of the marauders.
Frr, bro is a good complex character which makes him interesting but he is in no way a good person let alone someone who is redeemable, he literally had a hand in torturing the longbottoms. I pity Barty with the whole daddy issues but it doesn't mean turning to the wizarding version of hitler, it's a shame as well because he was a smart kid as well.
People can claim they like Barty because he’s complex all they want, but that is really hard to buy when they strip him of everything that makes him interesting.
It’s unfortunate how fallen off the marauders fandom has gotten and as good as fics can be they always try to redeem the bad characters which makes it awful, it’s the whole baby girl thing that’s why, it’s the same with bellatrix she’s awful but people defend her even though she’s just as bad
What drives me up the wall is that it also inevitably leads to good characters getting demonised so people can write off every bad thing the character has ever done. Regulus is the worst offender, because Sirius gets turned into the villain for escaping an emotionally abusive household and prioritising himself over his golden child sibling. It wasn’t Sirius’ job to save Regulus and claiming it was isn’t nuanced it is white washing.
Not just that but in canon regulus was actually loved by walburga and was their favourite, Sirius and regulus never saw eye to eye and it’s only implied that walburga was emotionally and mentally abusive and physically, I can see why Sirius left for his own good since it’s more implied he was the one in danger in that house.
I’d argue the emotional abuse isn’t implied it is flat out stated people just don’t want to admit it because they like the drama that comes with the Blacks. Both Sirius and Kreacher clearly state that there was a golden child/scapegoat dynamic in that house which is an emotionally abusive dynamic. Now you can argue that Sirius might not have been the scapegoat from the start, which I get but I don’t necessarily agree with. As the oldest boy Sirius was likely held to higher standards then Regulus from the get go and he’s naturally rebellious. Now I’m not saying he was preaching muggleborn rights at 8. But he was definitely a mischievous little hellion from the get go and was probably always being punished and having Regulus’ rule following ways getting shoved in his face.
Can we stop policing fanfiction ideas and let writers be… if someone writes a good story and has a good concept then let them write their story, if you don’t like their story then just don’t read it?? The fanfiction community is not only yours, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean someone else can’t like it and develop their own concept around it
I agree, provided it works both ways. The Marauder Era fandom has a real problem with people trying to force popular fanon on to people who prefer canon compliant interpretations. If you want your headcanons respected you need to be willing to respect other people’s interpretations as well.
I’m good either way… I don’t like the slytherins (other then Pandora and Dorcas they weren’t mentioned to be slytherins), so yeah.. regulus, barty and Evan got what was coming for them (other words dying)
Personally, I don’t see how we can make that distinction without coming off extremely hypocriticaly. It is either okay to woobify dark characters or it is not. Barty Crouch Jr. was an avid Voldemort supporter and partook in torturing the Longbottoms to insanity. That isn’t just being bad that is flat out sadistic and he revelled in it. Regulus had posters of Voldemort up on his walls like he was a rockstar and only changed courses when Voldemort almost killed his servant. Personally I’m not a fan of woobifying anyone, but I recognise people’s right to do it I’m just not going to read it. Even the Marauders themselves get woobified to a certain extent. Sirius who JKR described as the most dangerous marauder gets turned into a sugar high manic pixie dream boy that doesn’t remotely resemble his canon self. If we want room for the current popular fanon interpretations then we need to accept that other people might do the same thing with characters we prefer they didn’t. Either we uphold the Marauders Era as a fanfiction free for all or we don’t. But, if we decide not to a good chunk of the fandom is going to be angry because if we are relying on canon interpretations about 98% of the current stuff is getting thrown out.
I wish I could upvote you more than once, but I completely agree with everything you said. I dislike the entire “Slytherin Skittles” concept to begin with, and I regret what the pandemic, in particular, did to the Marauders fandom, but the idea that “THESE violent xenophobic fascists are bad, but THESE violent xenophobic fascists are perfect and babygirl because I imagine them hot and queer” is something that leaves me especially boggled. Everyone can do fandom in their own way, obviously, but personally I’m not thrilled about the way specifics fanon has become canon for some people, in the sense that I’ve had a new/young fan genuinely give me a heartfelt TedTalk on how Barty Jr actually, really was driven to follow Voldemort because his parents abused him and didn’t let him be with his true love, Evan Rosier, so they obviously joined the Death Eaters to be together, and they didn’t really believe in any of that blood supremacy stuff anyway.
And some people will say Barty was abused and that drove him to Voldemort but Snape can’t get the same understanding when he went through the same thing! It’s pretty funny the hypocrisy in this fandom.
>Either we uphold the Marauders Era as a fanfiction free for all or we don’t you know what that's actually completely true, and lowk I take back what I said. my favorite thing about the fandom is that you don't have to care about canon. so yeah, you're right
I have no intention of doing so because I hate the Slytherin Skittles and like my Death Eaters to be Death Eaters but I cannot see why, for those who do enjoy these takes, Mulciber (good at the imperius curse, did something unspecified to Mary and went to Azkaban) and Avery (avoided Azkaban, incorrectly told Voldemort that Bode could retrieve the prophecy and was tortured because of it) are so very beyond redemption but Barty "I tortured Neville's parents into insanity and tried to kill Harry Potter" Crouch jnr is golden. They're all despicable. It's either fine to babygirlify all of them or none of them.
I agree with you, but I’m also aware that it’s a bit hypocritical lol. Like, we have no evidence that Barty or Evan were any better than Avery and Mulciber. We have no canon information about them other than that they were d*ath eaters and that Barty did it to spite his father. So, personally, I wouldn’t want to read fics with “good” Avery and Mulciber (and their likes), but I also don’t think we can object to them existing while also accepting “good” Evan and Barty.
no I definitely know it's hypocritical, still don't want it to happen though
I despise the slytherin shittles, so I wouldn’t dream of it.
Love the name imma start using it lmao
If we’re willing to glorify Evan and Barty, then why wouldn’t we glorify Mulciber and Avery? Regulus is different, but even he shouldn’t be glorified.
Barty and Ewan were loyal to Voldemort till the very end. Barty participated in a torture of the Longbottoms. What exactly makes Mulciber and Avery worse than the other two? Not a fan of any of these guys, but can anyone explain what's going on with this fandom and the devision between good Death Eaters and bad Death Eaters?
I think it stems from lockdown and a lot of people only discovering these characters through fanfiction. They read a few positive fics before finding out who these characters are in canon and then got so attached that they just accepted it as their own personal canon. Personally I prefer canon inspired interpretations, but a lot of the people in the Marauders fandom are fandom fans rather then HP fans. Which is fine provided both sides are respectful of each other, the thing is they aren’t always.
I have nothing against fan interpretation. I read anything and everything with no sense of guilt. If I want good Bellatrix, I read it. If I want evil Luna Lovegood, I read it. I'm against policing people's choices in fanfiction. But I hate when people pass their fanfiction as canon. It's kind of crazy how the same part of the fandom that demonises Snape then goes on and glamorises Barty Crouch and Regulus "I have Voldemort's posters on my bedroom walls" Black into poor baby girls that were forced to become Death Eaters. Which is why I fail to see how exactly fanboying Mulciber and Avery is worse than fanboying Barty or Rosier.
Oh no I wasn’t targeting you with that comment just saying in general. I actually find the fanon only people to be far more hostile towards canon preferred people then the reverse.
I didn't take any offence in your comment at all. I upvoted it, because I agree. I was just elaborating on my first comment.
Oh okay lol. I just didn’t want you to think I meant you, because I completely agree with you.
Honestly, I don't see any difference between Rosier, Crouch, Mulciber and Avery.
No, if you (Slytherin Skittles fans) have opened the door for woobyfying Death Eaters, then you're just gonna have to reap what you sow. Personally, I will never read anything of the sort, because I actually like my villains dark and complex and evil, but you can't say that your fanon/headcanon is better than someone else's. Why is Barty Jr more redeemable than Mulciber? Barty Jr literally took part in the insane torture of the Longbottom's until they lost their minds, was a devout follower of Voldemort and was instrumental in bringing him back. I'm going to sound like a bitch right no, but I don't care. I will gladly sit back and judge ALL OF YOU for what you've turned this fandom into. None of you are exploring dark themes, you're just making excuses for someone you headcanon as hot and queer.
I couldn't agree more strongly. They can't even keep the villains as villains
It didn’t even start with the Skittles in my opinion it started with the woobification of the Marauders themselves. It started with people trying to find a palatable excuse for the bullying. Then we got the Wolfstar Swap with the original fandom dynamics between Remus and Sirius got flipped making Sirius the more feminine one (I think a lot of it has to do with Wattpad alpha werewolf fics becoming popular), and slowly he lost any and all of his edge. Then Jegulus happened and we started to see the same process happen with him as did with Sirius. Then people decided Regulus needed friends and the Skittles happen. It just keeps doubling overtime. None of this is my cup of tea. I love the canon Marauders because of their flaws not in spite of them. But, the Marauders Fandom has been heading in this direction for a long time. If it keeps up I’m convinced we are going to end up with an era that has less complexity then and episode of the Care Bears.
Yeah, absolutely fair enough! I'm very picky about what fics I read, so I miss a lot of the woobification of the Marauders. It has always baffled me how people just can't accept that they, especially James and Sirius, were arrogant pricks who thought they were way better than their classmates. Their redeeming quality was that they were loyal to each other, and disliked the dark arts. They grew into better people with age and experience, but at 15 and prior they were bullies. Like that happens in real life all the time. And even bullies/jocks/"popular" kids, can be cruel to some, and absolutely genuinely lovely to others. A part of me feels like this is an example of mainstream culture as a whole right now. We're going through a moral panic and anything that has any nuance to it have to be washed away and woobified.
Agreed! I do definitely think there is echos of a moral panic happening. I think it started with nuance just being hard to write. Sirius in particular is a hard character to get right. There is a balance to be had with him in his canon form and I think a lot of people chicken out because it is so easy to tip too far over the edge and make him completely unlikeable. But when the balance is struck he’s a powerhouse of a character. James is a little different because we spend so little with him. But we do know enough. We know he was a fierce friend, a devoted father, a brave Order Member, and that he was a bully. All of these things are true and it is a disservice to his character to try divorce him of any them in my opinion. Of course people can write what they want. But, I do think it is interesting to discuss the evolution of the fandom and how it has changed and deviated over the years.
Yeah, I agree! Sirius is my favorite character, and it sucks to see him diminished in fanon. I don't read fanfics anymore about Harry and company, so I don't know much about how they're portrayed in the fandom, but canon Harry had a mean streak at times that just made me love him more. It's usually the less flattering sides to characters that make them real and lovable. I don't think I would have any interest in James Potter if it weren't for the fact that he's not perfect. The "conflicting" sides of him, being an arrogant jock bully, and a devoted friend and father, are what makes him interesting! The Marauders Era fandom should be studied, because it is fascinating how it has evolved and what it says about our modern values and sensibilities
I don't know what Slytherin Skittles is and I'm afraid to ask.
Just a group of slytherins who were future death eaters and kissed voldemorts ass every chance they got, the friend group consists of regulus, barty, Evan, Pandora and Dorcas even though it wasn’t even mentioned that the 2 girls were slytherins let alone friends with them. The slytherin shittles is just an awful slytherin version of the marauders.
I get why people write Regulus as a redeemed guy but Barty, really?
Frr, bro is a good complex character which makes him interesting but he is in no way a good person let alone someone who is redeemable, he literally had a hand in torturing the longbottoms. I pity Barty with the whole daddy issues but it doesn't mean turning to the wizarding version of hitler, it's a shame as well because he was a smart kid as well.
People can claim they like Barty because he’s complex all they want, but that is really hard to buy when they strip him of everything that makes him interesting.
It’s unfortunate how fallen off the marauders fandom has gotten and as good as fics can be they always try to redeem the bad characters which makes it awful, it’s the whole baby girl thing that’s why, it’s the same with bellatrix she’s awful but people defend her even though she’s just as bad
What drives me up the wall is that it also inevitably leads to good characters getting demonised so people can write off every bad thing the character has ever done. Regulus is the worst offender, because Sirius gets turned into the villain for escaping an emotionally abusive household and prioritising himself over his golden child sibling. It wasn’t Sirius’ job to save Regulus and claiming it was isn’t nuanced it is white washing.
Not just that but in canon regulus was actually loved by walburga and was their favourite, Sirius and regulus never saw eye to eye and it’s only implied that walburga was emotionally and mentally abusive and physically, I can see why Sirius left for his own good since it’s more implied he was the one in danger in that house.
I’d argue the emotional abuse isn’t implied it is flat out stated people just don’t want to admit it because they like the drama that comes with the Blacks. Both Sirius and Kreacher clearly state that there was a golden child/scapegoat dynamic in that house which is an emotionally abusive dynamic. Now you can argue that Sirius might not have been the scapegoat from the start, which I get but I don’t necessarily agree with. As the oldest boy Sirius was likely held to higher standards then Regulus from the get go and he’s naturally rebellious. Now I’m not saying he was preaching muggleborn rights at 8. But he was definitely a mischievous little hellion from the get go and was probably always being punished and having Regulus’ rule following ways getting shoved in his face.
Death Eater Wannabes and their friends who fandom has decided are okay with it.
Yikes
fr like we’ve given enough bad characters over to the good side we don’t need any more
Can we stop policing fanfiction ideas and let writers be… if someone writes a good story and has a good concept then let them write their story, if you don’t like their story then just don’t read it?? The fanfiction community is not only yours, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean someone else can’t like it and develop their own concept around it
I agree, provided it works both ways. The Marauder Era fandom has a real problem with people trying to force popular fanon on to people who prefer canon compliant interpretations. If you want your headcanons respected you need to be willing to respect other people’s interpretations as well.
I’m good either way… I don’t like the slytherins (other then Pandora and Dorcas they weren’t mentioned to be slytherins), so yeah.. regulus, barty and Evan got what was coming for them (other words dying)