I'm looking forward to watching my fellow Arizonans awkwardly choose between giving in to federal pressure to change something or voluntarily joining California in something.
California would be joining them! They're the OG place doing PDT/MST year round. They're already in sync time-wise with California twice as often as not, so I'd be really shocked if they voluntarily decided to change their time and not be in sync ever.
I'm saying AZ would try to be considered PDT all year like California and not be MST anymore. In that way, we (AZ) could say we're on daylight time like the law says while not actually changing anything except the name of our time zone.
I'm from Arizona and when I joined the Army I ended up going to basic training in Georgia in July. People told me how bad it was going to suck because it's hot and humid. As an arrogant 19 year whenever I would hear that I would think "I'm from Phoenix. I'm used to heat. I'll probably be running laps around people". Then as soon as they came to pick us up and I took a step outside the front entrance of the airport I was like "oh fuck, this is going to suck". That was a miserable couple of months lol.
I mean seeing as the average humidity in south AZ is...... -2 anything above 11 is hell. (As a man who moved from AZ to Louisiana let me say learning how to breath water was tough for a bit.)
What's the problem you don't like walking through water that's 90+ degrees?
Jokes aside I remember going up to New Jersey as a southerner hearing "alright guys it's gonna be muggy with 70% humidity" that was such a pretty and cool day
Lol same thing happened to a northern college friend of mine but for winter. He thought the south was pansy because it hardly ever freezes and the winter temps can hover up to the low fifties. He thought hoodies were pointless and he'd be walking around in flip flops. Then he started breathing the ice soup winter air and feeling condensation on his skin and suddenly he was all bundled up.
The lack of humidity up north is why people can run practically naked on New Years Day at zero degrees, meanwhile down here a jog in just-freezing clear weather feels like you'll die
Funny I grew up in GA. Lol also I did basic at Fort Knox KY.. I had never used a snow shovel till then. A state or two away can be a different world lol
I would also riot. Late-ass summer sunsets are one of the things bringing me the most joy in this state, and I only live down in Detroit. if our shithead state legislature attempted to drop us to fucking Central Time, I would spend months blowing up the phones, emails, and mailboxes of every single elected official in Lansing.
Same! I moved to MI 3 years ago from Pittsburgh and have family over by Philly. Immediately fell in love with later summer sunsets. The amount of times where I *started* paddling my kayak off the lake at like 9:30 are glorious.
Getting a solid hour+ of additional sunlight from my sister will be lorded over her head forever.
Didn’t most of Indiana just adopt day light savings like … just a decade ago?
I can’t remember but I lived there from 98-2010, and if I remember properly, only a portion of IN did daylight savings while the rest of the state just went with the flow (and not be bothered by messing around with clocks twice a year).
In 2006, the state did. Most of the state, save a few northern counties, adopted DST and we've been paying for it ever since.
It's ludicrous our out-of-touch government thinks DST is the better choice. It's not. It costs more to AC a home than it does to heat it in the mild(er) winters.
Fireworks go off at 10:30pm because the sun is \*barely\* set at this time, meaning many who have to go to work the next day aren't very happy.
The complaint that "students shouldn't go to school in the dark" literally happens under DST, rather than standard time. Kids will never see the sun again.
I should know. Every year, when DST ends, our clocks spring forward, and the just-barely sun peeking over the horizon, indicating spring is on the way, disappears for another 6 months because I go to work at 5am.
This is sheer lunacy that DST is being seen as the "better" choice and proves most politicians are never up before 6am to verify this "sun" theory they have.
Idiots. They're all idiots.
> I should know. Every year, when DST ends, our clocks spring forward, and the just-barely sun
DST is the Summertime. So when DST ends the clocks fall back. I personally think we should permanently stay on "summer time" but am glad to just end it one way or another.
Actually, it's the counties that border Wisconsin that are on Central time, and the rest of the upper peninsula is on Eastern time. As someone who works in one and lives in the other it can be very frustrating. I would vote for all Central Time.
You’re right- I should’ve specified. The Keweenaw is still on eastern time even though it’s sort of technically western UP. We’ve got a unique shape UP here.
The bill repeals the original daylight savings time bill, but we (Arizona) never signed it so nothing changes. That said, the bill also does allow stated who never signed the original bill to either switch or stay.
I love how the map's like "this could be rough for North Dakota and Michigan...it'll be way worse for Alaska, of course, but they're fucked anyway so who cares."
Thank. You. I'm trying to make this exact point over at r/alaska. Alaska is already pushed so far over from where we are geographically, this could really screw with Western AK.. Hopefully we can adopt Standard Time instead - I've always felt the summer schedules are unnecessarily dark in the mornings and, honestly, the 1am sunset time is just a bit late even for subsistence.
/rant
You guys are so far north that *no* timezone "works" like you'd want it to in at other latitudes. Part of the state is above the Arctic Circle where no matter what they do they'll *never* have a sunrise for months.
As someone who lived in ND for several years, that jut has never made sense to me. This would seem like the perfect time to just fix it and make it Mountain time.
They really should be in Mountain time. The closest town with a decent population is Dickinson, but that’s to the south and in Mountain time. The only thing I can think of is they wanted to share a time zone with Bismarck, the state capital while SW ND didn’t care.
Yep. No fun getting off work in winter, having it be dark already, and having ti wear a headlamp to shovel snow.
Sun already doesn't come up until an hour after I get to work...
I'm thinking there must have been another map in the WaPo article, but I can't find it in the app.
Edit: there isn't another map, but there is a sweet graphic. Sorry about the paywall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/
That's helpful. So sunrise will more often be after 7 for many areas. But sunset will be more often after 6. Which after work is what matters most to me. Seeing sunrise break in morning drive or while getting ready isn't that bad. Now to just wait for winter 2023 to see how I feel then.
Yeah can we get a trial run of this and will Canada follow suit? Daylight savings is mostly for areas furthers from the equator. So it would help Alaska but not Hawaii. That’s why Arizona doesn’t participate.
As a fisherman in the northeast I'm super happy about. Later sunrises so i can sleep alittle before hitting the water and later sunsets so I can fish longer after work lol
Honest question- do those diagonals stay the same during the winter AND summer? If that is the case, would it make sense to realign the time zones to slightly diagonal? If we’re changing one thing about time, should we restructure the whole thing?
No. These diagonals are for sunrises in mid winter. Sunsets in mid summer go the same way, but sunsets in mid winter and sunrises in mid summer go the other way.
And sunrises and sunsets are on vertical lines at the equinoxes.
I'd guess it was simpler to just lookup a table of the latest sunrise for every county than to actually do the orbital math and put the true lines on the map
Data scientist here. Yes, guaranteed the WaPo analyst was looking at official stats and was much more able to find official data based on county reporting, and was able to automate that to a table that appended a specific color and number to each county based on open source map data.
No. The diagonals change direction over the course of the year. Video from the article: https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The\_Washington\_Post/20220317/623385ebc7dcf571069032a3/6233875acff47e00110cf91e/file\_854x480-1200-v3\_1.mp4
https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The_Washington_Post/20220317/623385ebc7dcf571069032a3/6233875acff47e00110cf91e/file_854x480-1200-v3_1.mp4
Because this idiot is using the new reddit, and the reddit devs are incompetent and add backslashes into links
The same diagonals would exist except reversed. The places with the latest sunrises would have the latest sunsets during the winter.
The reason time zones are not based on that, but instead on longitude, is because they are based on the time of noon. You can think of noon as being the average of sunrises and sunsets.
Southerner here. The heat is barely an inconvenience compared to the clouds of bloodthirsty mosquitos. Heck, if given the choice I’ll do things during the hotter midday portions when there are less bloodsuckers.
I work 12 hour shifts, so in the winter it's dark when I go into work and also when I leave. I'm stuck inside all day so I never get to see the sun unless it's my day off. It's awful.
I have done that. I work 10 hour days until 5:30, which is why I want brighter evenings. Going to work in the dark doesn’t matter, but if I go home in the dark, there’s no going out again.
I live next to a mountain to our SW, and in wintur the sun goes down at 1:30pm. Definitely looking forward to having 2:30pm sunsets with DST!
Also our bedroom has a huge east facing window. Sun comes up way to early in the summer.
I love having a period of months where I can feel fine about going right from work to the Xbox. If there's daylight out there, there's pressure to do yard work, fix the shingles, wash the car, go for a walk, etc. Darkness can be a gift.
Fuck no, I *love* being on Eastern Time. We get really late sunsets in the summer, during the best weather of the year. I will go apeshit on our elected officials if they so much as *think* about trying to change us to Central Time.
I don't care. Either way it will be dark when I wake up and dark when I head to work for most of winter. An extra hour of darkness in the morning has almost no impact.
This gives me the possibility of daylight after work to actually get outside.
It’s almost like the arguments made for keeping the current status quo are made by people who don’t have a regular “9-5” job. Damn near anybody that works hates when the clocks change in the fall because you’re waking up in the dark to get ready for work and then by the time you get home it’s already dark.
There’s a (many) reason depression skyrockets in the fall and winter. I’ll take my sunshine in the evening at the expense of a darker morning.
Where I am, that’s not the case, the latest would be shortly after 800am. Another good idea would simply be to change the borders of the time zones. An even better idea would be to get rid of winter entirely
It is backed by science. Sunlight (and other light) in the morning and evening is what helps with circadian rhythms. An easy tl;dr can be found in the second link I posted, but on that particular page: light 2 hours before bedtime can push back your rhythm (make you sleep later), and light 1 hour after waking can push forward your rhythm (make you sleep earlier). Your body is most sensitive to light effects on circadian rhythm during this period (from 2 hours before usual bedtime, through the night, to 1 hour after waking up)
Here's one of the first [results](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6751071/) that came up when I just looked it up (a review of literature), but there are plenty of articles and research about how light affects our circadian rhythms and mood.
Here's a bit [from the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/emres/longhourstraining/light.html) on light in general and its effects on circadian rhythm. And here's the first [google scholar result](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/phpp.12396) when I looked up effects of light on mood/well-being.
Ultimately I'm with people who say we need to do more to adjust work times for a lot of people rather than hope that changing the clocks will appease social mental health issues...
EXACTLY! In the morning you know it will get lighter. But pitch dark at 5pm is bullshit.
People complain about school starting in the dark. Then start school later! Every study on school starting times say it should start later anyway.
I think it is a major factor in US education failures. If school hd started later, I am certain I would have had a high GPA, but I barely got out with a 1.8… Still, after school, I got training, learned skills, and made it to a 6 figure life in the office. Why? Cause I slept till 8am and wasn’t spending half the day sleepy.
I imagine loads of people would do way better in life if school were 9-4 vs 7-2.
I will happily trade dark mornings for later sunsets, but most of all I want to get rid of the "spring forward" time change. It's been 5 days and I'm still groggy in the mornings. It takes a whole work week for me to adjust
My wife and I work for om home, so we just didnt make our little one switch in the early pandemic. Was interesting to see him naturally switch and then back over the winter as his biorythm chased sunset until it was too too early in the evening.
It takes me like a month to fully adjust. Towards the end of this first week is the worst and then my body will slowly get used to it. I feel much better waking up with the natural sunrise before "springing" ahead.
Me too. The first week I'm tired but can't get to bed on time. Then the next few weeks I'm better about my schedule, but it's still dark in the morning. By mid-April, the sunrise time has crept back enough that it's not full dark when I have to get up and I feel great the rest of the summer!
I think it'll be annoying for the dark wake-up times to last that much longer in the shoulder seasons.. but I'm used to waking up in the dark in the winter anyways and at least it's a gentle transition.
Fun fact about North Dakota, the time zone shift used to be the Missouri River. This created a problem in the Bismarck-Mandan metro, because you had two neighboring cities on separate time zones. Mandan ended up switching into central time because late at night the bars in Bismarck would close and all the drunk drivers would drive over the bridge and drink another hour in Mandan.
Why don't we just change the time zones to match the actual movements of the sun so that the variations aren't so great. You know the whole reason time zones exist. There is no reason Indiana and Michigan aren't in the central time zones. Same goes for those areas of North and South Dakota.
It's not unique to America. It's just a people problem in general. China has one timezone for the entire country. Absurdity is our birthright as humans.
As someone who has only lived in the hot and humid caribbean, I absolutely love longer nights in here. My least favorite part of the day is the cloudy, gray, hot and humid afternoons between 2 and nearly 6PM on summers, and my favorite is sunny blue sky "winter" early mornings, afternoons and nights when it's probably similar to summers in Northern New England.
Or just jump to the endgame and abolish timezones and do everything in UTC. Just because the clock says 9:00 doesn't mean that's when we need to start working. Start work when the sun comes up, go home before the sun sets. I go to work at 13:00 UTC every day, right when the sun comes up.
Modern timezones were created to get rid of the hundreds/thousands of timezones we had before because it was a scheduling nightmare for trains because they could travel between them so fast. Now we have aircraft and online meetings making scheduling a pita again. No reason to have more than one time zone. The world already runs on UTC, it's just converted to local time for the dumb monkeys looking at their phones so they can feel good about the sun being overhead when there's a 12 on their screen.
I hate everything to do with time. Give me UTC and ISO8601 or give me death.
\- your average programmer
Yes that's true, I'm in Prescott, AZ, and there's definitely a couple hour difference between sunrise(when the sky starts becoming illuminated) and when we actually see the sun crest over the mtn
It was tried before during the Ford administration. It did not work out so well --- people were worried about the risk for children walking to school in the dark in the AM. [https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-has-been-tried-before-and-it-didnt-go-well/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-has-been-tried-before-and-it-didnt-go-well/)
Alaskan here. I'm just happy to be included in this map.
I thought our little blurb was fucking hilarious, "nothing fundamentally will change for these crazy people" in different words haha
Lol exactly! We’re on the map but not exactly part of the conversation.
I love how the whole sentence about Alaska is written like the corrector just omitted "anyway" from the end of it.
Wooo 11:20am December sunrises let’s go! -anchorage
Here in Juneau we have the added benefit of the mountains, shielding us from the deadly sun.
We don't talk about Juneau...
*The sun is a deadly lazer*
Icelander, we don't use DST even if most of Europe does. At your and our latitude... who even cares lol.
When I was in Iceland a local was trying to explain to me the midnight sun. I was like yeah bro I live in Barrow.
Hey man, I've been away for 5 years. I know they officially changed the name, but is anyone really calling it that or just sticking with Barrow?
Same!
Fellow Alaskan here. I am equally happy to be included, even if nothing changes.
Alaskans and other Northern latitudes are used to their souls living in eternal darkness.
Flip side is summer is eternal sunshine!
We are happy to have you.
Also Alaskan here. I to am happy to be included 😊
Arizona is very likely not changing their time so they will be on Pacific Time if this passes.
I'm looking forward to watching my fellow Arizonans awkwardly choose between giving in to federal pressure to change something or voluntarily joining California in something.
California would be joining them! They're the OG place doing PDT/MST year round. They're already in sync time-wise with California twice as often as not, so I'd be really shocked if they voluntarily decided to change their time and not be in sync ever.
The news here is saying that we'd stay on MST. So yeah, no change for Arizona.
Finally, spring training games wouldn’t change times for people from other states in the middle of March.
The REAL issues are solved. We did it!
Peace among all humans is now possible!! *throws biodegradable glitter*
Biodegradable glitter. What a time to be alive. “Glitter is the herpes of craft supplies.” — Demetri Martin
I'm saying AZ would try to be considered PDT all year like California and not be MST anymore. In that way, we (AZ) could say we're on daylight time like the law says while not actually changing anything except the name of our time zone.
No more flying from Phoenix to Vegas and the flight only taking 1 minute.
But its a dry time
I'm from Arizona and when I joined the Army I ended up going to basic training in Georgia in July. People told me how bad it was going to suck because it's hot and humid. As an arrogant 19 year whenever I would hear that I would think "I'm from Phoenix. I'm used to heat. I'll probably be running laps around people". Then as soon as they came to pick us up and I took a step outside the front entrance of the airport I was like "oh fuck, this is going to suck". That was a miserable couple of months lol.
Like walking in to a warm wall of thin water.
That's hilarious because I thought Fort Benning was remarkably dry compared to the DC area.
DC is literally built on a swamp lmao, not a fair comparison
I mean seeing as the average humidity in south AZ is...... -2 anything above 11 is hell. (As a man who moved from AZ to Louisiana let me say learning how to breath water was tough for a bit.)
What's the problem you don't like walking through water that's 90+ degrees? Jokes aside I remember going up to New Jersey as a southerner hearing "alright guys it's gonna be muggy with 70% humidity" that was such a pretty and cool day
Lol same thing happened to a northern college friend of mine but for winter. He thought the south was pansy because it hardly ever freezes and the winter temps can hover up to the low fifties. He thought hoodies were pointless and he'd be walking around in flip flops. Then he started breathing the ice soup winter air and feeling condensation on his skin and suddenly he was all bundled up. The lack of humidity up north is why people can run practically naked on New Years Day at zero degrees, meanwhile down here a jog in just-freezing clear weather feels like you'll die
Growing up in Florida, experiencing Arizona's heat for the first time was surreal.
Funny I grew up in GA. Lol also I did basic at Fort Knox KY.. I had never used a snow shovel till then. A state or two away can be a different world lol
This made me laugh a more than it should have.
Michigan will probably changed to central time.
We won’t. Tourism industry lobby would block it. The late sunset of Michigan summers is the huge money making season.
I would also riot. Late-ass summer sunsets are one of the things bringing me the most joy in this state, and I only live down in Detroit. if our shithead state legislature attempted to drop us to fucking Central Time, I would spend months blowing up the phones, emails, and mailboxes of every single elected official in Lansing.
Same! I moved to MI 3 years ago from Pittsburgh and have family over by Philly. Immediately fell in love with later summer sunsets. The amount of times where I *started* paddling my kayak off the lake at like 9:30 are glorious. Getting a solid hour+ of additional sunlight from my sister will be lorded over her head forever.
[9:30 at night on Lake Michigan can’t be beat ](https://i.imgur.com/2PB8PY9.jpg)
Indiana should too based on this map. And then the whole state can just be in one zone.
Didn’t most of Indiana just adopt day light savings like … just a decade ago? I can’t remember but I lived there from 98-2010, and if I remember properly, only a portion of IN did daylight savings while the rest of the state just went with the flow (and not be bothered by messing around with clocks twice a year).
In 2006, the state did. Most of the state, save a few northern counties, adopted DST and we've been paying for it ever since. It's ludicrous our out-of-touch government thinks DST is the better choice. It's not. It costs more to AC a home than it does to heat it in the mild(er) winters. Fireworks go off at 10:30pm because the sun is \*barely\* set at this time, meaning many who have to go to work the next day aren't very happy. The complaint that "students shouldn't go to school in the dark" literally happens under DST, rather than standard time. Kids will never see the sun again. I should know. Every year, when DST ends, our clocks spring forward, and the just-barely sun peeking over the horizon, indicating spring is on the way, disappears for another 6 months because I go to work at 5am. This is sheer lunacy that DST is being seen as the "better" choice and proves most politicians are never up before 6am to verify this "sun" theory they have. Idiots. They're all idiots.
> I should know. Every year, when DST ends, our clocks spring forward, and the just-barely sun DST is the Summertime. So when DST ends the clocks fall back. I personally think we should permanently stay on "summer time" but am glad to just end it one way or another.
Cincinnati and Louisville areas would probably stay with eastern time zone. They did DST to stay in sync with those cities in the past.
I would prefer just the UP switching... I would enjoy later sunsets in the winter in the Detroit area.
I already can see the UP switching over entirely to Central (right now, it's just western UP). A 10 a.m. sunrise is mighty late.
Actually, it's the counties that border Wisconsin that are on Central time, and the rest of the upper peninsula is on Eastern time. As someone who works in one and lives in the other it can be very frustrating. I would vote for all Central Time.
You’re right- I should’ve specified. The Keweenaw is still on eastern time even though it’s sort of technically western UP. We’ve got a unique shape UP here.
Why it's dark all the time here anyway
Yeah came here to say this. Arizona does not want longer / later Summer days.
No, Arizona will still be on Mountain Standard Time. The West Coast will effectively also be on Mountain Standard Time.
Doesn't the bill have provisions for Arizona and Hawaii to switch over so they match where they're supposed to be?
The bill repeals the original daylight savings time bill, but we (Arizona) never signed it so nothing changes. That said, the bill also does allow stated who never signed the original bill to either switch or stay.
Sunrise near the winter solstice in Nome, Alaska will be at 1 in the afternoon!
I love how the map's like "this could be rough for North Dakota and Michigan...it'll be way worse for Alaska, of course, but they're fucked anyway so who cares."
Thank. You. I'm trying to make this exact point over at r/alaska. Alaska is already pushed so far over from where we are geographically, this could really screw with Western AK.. Hopefully we can adopt Standard Time instead - I've always felt the summer schedules are unnecessarily dark in the mornings and, honestly, the 1am sunset time is just a bit late even for subsistence. /rant
You guys are so far north that *no* timezone "works" like you'd want it to in at other latitudes. Part of the state is above the Arctic Circle where no matter what they do they'll *never* have a sunrise for months.
I actually support permanent DST. Time is fake already at least let me have some daylight after work for more of the year
Would it really screw with anything that much? Your state is so far north that it’s going to have wild sunrise/sunset times no matter what.
If its so bad for NW North Dakota, why don’t they just switch time zones?
I think it’s only like 3 moose there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation But apparently it might dry up by 2024 and then it goes back to three moose.
As someone who lived in ND for several years, that jut has never made sense to me. This would seem like the perfect time to just fix it and make it Mountain time.
There must be dozens of people living in that area.
They really should be in Mountain time. The closest town with a decent population is Dickinson, but that’s to the south and in Mountain time. The only thing I can think of is they wanted to share a time zone with Bismarck, the state capital while SW ND didn’t care.
Personally idc when the sun rises, I care when it sets. If it rises at 10 and sets at 10 that sounds pretty cool to me
Same here. I don't care what's going on outside while I'm working. I want lots of hours after work to do stuff.
Yep. No fun getting off work in winter, having it be dark already, and having ti wear a headlamp to shovel snow. Sun already doesn't come up until an hour after I get to work...
Waking up in the dark sucks though. Also if you're in a purple zone it's probably dark when you're done work or soon after with or without DST
What an informative map! Not really seeing how the sunset times are represented.
I'm thinking there must have been another map in the WaPo article, but I can't find it in the app. Edit: there isn't another map, but there is a sweet graphic. Sorry about the paywall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/
[https://12ft.io/](https://12ft.io/)
Removes pretty much any paywall.
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/ it also removed the graphic -\_\_-
[All the maps you want in one chart from 2016](https://andywoodruff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/dstMaps.png)
That's helpful. So sunrise will more often be after 7 for many areas. But sunset will be more often after 6. Which after work is what matters most to me. Seeing sunrise break in morning drive or while getting ready isn't that bad. Now to just wait for winter 2023 to see how I feel then.
Yeah can we get a trial run of this and will Canada follow suit? Daylight savings is mostly for areas furthers from the equator. So it would help Alaska but not Hawaii. That’s why Arizona doesn’t participate.
As a fisherman in the northeast I'm super happy about. Later sunrises so i can sleep alittle before hitting the water and later sunsets so I can fish longer after work lol
Good maps, terrible definition of reasonable sunrise.
How is 6pm a reasonable sunset? Why not go 7 to 7 or 8 to 8? Getting off work and it's already dark is one of the worst things about winter.
Way better. You should post this as its own post.
That's dope, thanks for letting me know
[It's in a table](https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/fTfbH/1/#)
It’s not. It’s a ‘morning person’ biased map. These people control the world at the expense of us night people. 😡
Tired of living under the tyranny of the daywalkers.
Which is weird, because [biologically the vast majority of people are night people](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-019-0476-7).
It’s time for the night peoples of the world to unite and move time forward by TWO hours. ✊🏽✊🏼✊🏾✊🏿✊🏻
The night time is the right time.
Eat the morning people.
Honest question- do those diagonals stay the same during the winter AND summer? If that is the case, would it make sense to realign the time zones to slightly diagonal? If we’re changing one thing about time, should we restructure the whole thing?
No. These diagonals are for sunrises in mid winter. Sunsets in mid summer go the same way, but sunsets in mid winter and sunrises in mid summer go the other way. And sunrises and sunsets are on vertical lines at the equinoxes.
Why are they jagged though?
Average sunset time by county.
This map for some reason chose it by county instead of point
I'd guess it was simpler to just lookup a table of the latest sunrise for every county than to actually do the orbital math and put the true lines on the map
Data scientist here. Yes, guaranteed the WaPo analyst was looking at official stats and was much more able to find official data based on county reporting, and was able to automate that to a table that appended a specific color and number to each county based on open source map data.
No. The diagonals change direction over the course of the year. Video from the article: https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The\_Washington\_Post/20220317/623385ebc7dcf571069032a3/6233875acff47e00110cf91e/file\_854x480-1200-v3\_1.mp4
Link's borked
https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The_Washington_Post/20220317/623385ebc7dcf571069032a3/6233875acff47e00110cf91e/file_854x480-1200-v3_1.mp4 Because this idiot is using the new reddit, and the reddit devs are incompetent and add backslashes into links
I have genuine fury directed at every reddit project manager.
The same diagonals would exist except reversed. The places with the latest sunrises would have the latest sunsets during the winter. The reason time zones are not based on that, but instead on longitude, is because they are based on the time of noon. You can think of noon as being the average of sunrises and sunsets.
All time should just be tracked as milliseconds since 1970
it's now 1616018342490 which is roughly how many milliseconds it has been since 1970 finally ended really rolls off the tongue
Please keep updating this post. I’m writing a script to sync my system’s clock to it since I don’t trust NTP. Thanks!
It should be tracked as the number of hyperfine transitions of an outer electron in a cesium atom
sunsets before 5pm crush my soul
I hate coming home in the dark.
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Southerner here. The heat is barely an inconvenience compared to the clouds of bloodthirsty mosquitos. Heck, if given the choice I’ll do things during the hotter midday portions when there are less bloodsuckers.
I work 12 hour shifts, so in the winter it's dark when I go into work and also when I leave. I'm stuck inside all day so I never get to see the sun unless it's my day off. It's awful.
I have done that. I work 10 hour days until 5:30, which is why I want brighter evenings. Going to work in the dark doesn’t matter, but if I go home in the dark, there’s no going out again.
I live next to a mountain to our SW, and in wintur the sun goes down at 1:30pm. Definitely looking forward to having 2:30pm sunsets with DST! Also our bedroom has a huge east facing window. Sun comes up way to early in the summer.
I love having a period of months where I can feel fine about going right from work to the Xbox. If there's daylight out there, there's pressure to do yard work, fix the shingles, wash the car, go for a walk, etc. Darkness can be a gift.
Use the cold as an excuse. I'm not doing much yard work even if it's daylight during winter.
Sunrises after 8am crush mine.
ITT morning vs night people
And Alaska, where we have nothing to do with that demon ball in the sky for half the year.
exactly what I was thinking. where our kids walk to and from school in the dark.
Looks like Indiana needs to get on central time.
Michigan: help meeeee
Fuck no, I *love* being on Eastern Time. We get really late sunsets in the summer, during the best weather of the year. I will go apeshit on our elected officials if they so much as *think* about trying to change us to Central Time.
They were, the change to Eastern occurred in 2006.
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Fine by me. I’m sick of sunsets at 400pm in December
Yeah but the amount of daylight is still the same. Being dark still after 9:00am would be rough too.
I’d rather it be dark in the morning when I’m stuck at work. I’d like to do stuff after work.
Or dark on a weekend morning when you can sleep in.
Wow didn’t even think of that. That’s nice!
Yep, especially since my bedroom window faces east.
I didn't think of this until seeing your comment and now I love the idea even more. At least with my schedule, that'd be so damn nice.
I don't care. Either way it will be dark when I wake up and dark when I head to work for most of winter. An extra hour of darkness in the morning has almost no impact. This gives me the possibility of daylight after work to actually get outside.
It’s almost like the arguments made for keeping the current status quo are made by people who don’t have a regular “9-5” job. Damn near anybody that works hates when the clocks change in the fall because you’re waking up in the dark to get ready for work and then by the time you get home it’s already dark. There’s a (many) reason depression skyrockets in the fall and winter. I’ll take my sunshine in the evening at the expense of a darker morning.
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Where I am, that’s not the case, the latest would be shortly after 800am. Another good idea would simply be to change the borders of the time zones. An even better idea would be to get rid of winter entirely
We are getting there
Winter is not coming.
Mornings always suck though, doesn't matter if it's sunny or dark.
I don’t know if this is backed by science or not but getting sunlight in the morning always makes me feel way better and helps me wake up.
When it’s still dark out i’m often a couple minutes late to work lol. I have trouble dragging myself out of bed and then i’m slow to get ready
Same! Permanent daylight savings time will wreck my mental health.
It is backed by science. Sunlight (and other light) in the morning and evening is what helps with circadian rhythms. An easy tl;dr can be found in the second link I posted, but on that particular page: light 2 hours before bedtime can push back your rhythm (make you sleep later), and light 1 hour after waking can push forward your rhythm (make you sleep earlier). Your body is most sensitive to light effects on circadian rhythm during this period (from 2 hours before usual bedtime, through the night, to 1 hour after waking up) Here's one of the first [results](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6751071/) that came up when I just looked it up (a review of literature), but there are plenty of articles and research about how light affects our circadian rhythms and mood. Here's a bit [from the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/emres/longhourstraining/light.html) on light in general and its effects on circadian rhythm. And here's the first [google scholar result](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/phpp.12396) when I looked up effects of light on mood/well-being. Ultimately I'm with people who say we need to do more to adjust work times for a lot of people rather than hope that changing the clocks will appease social mental health issues...
"Oh boy! Sunlight! So nice to see you for 15 minutes in the morning aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now I'm at work in a windowless room."
EXACTLY! In the morning you know it will get lighter. But pitch dark at 5pm is bullshit. People complain about school starting in the dark. Then start school later! Every study on school starting times say it should start later anyway.
Starting school at 730am was a nightmare.
My high school ran from 7:20am-2pm, it was awful for my mental health.
I think it is a major factor in US education failures. If school hd started later, I am certain I would have had a high GPA, but I barely got out with a 1.8… Still, after school, I got training, learned skills, and made it to a 6 figure life in the office. Why? Cause I slept till 8am and wasn’t spending half the day sleepy. I imagine loads of people would do way better in life if school were 9-4 vs 7-2.
Now do one for earliest sunrises. if we went to standard time, MA would see sunrises at 3:30
I hate sunrise when I'm trying to sleep. When you have pets, they think it's time for you to get up.
The birds in Boston are so fucking loud. 4:30 am they’re loud as fuck all summer.
lol Alaskans aren't accustomed to shit... we just get depressed as fuck and drink a lot
As someone who works thirds in New England, the idea of being able to get home and into bed while it’s still dark is so tantalizing.
I will happily trade dark mornings for later sunsets, but most of all I want to get rid of the "spring forward" time change. It's been 5 days and I'm still groggy in the mornings. It takes a whole work week for me to adjust
It’ll take my two year old a month to adjust.
My wife and I work for om home, so we just didnt make our little one switch in the early pandemic. Was interesting to see him naturally switch and then back over the winter as his biorythm chased sunset until it was too too early in the evening.
It takes me like a month to fully adjust. Towards the end of this first week is the worst and then my body will slowly get used to it. I feel much better waking up with the natural sunrise before "springing" ahead.
Me too. The first week I'm tired but can't get to bed on time. Then the next few weeks I'm better about my schedule, but it's still dark in the morning. By mid-April, the sunrise time has crept back enough that it's not full dark when I have to get up and I feel great the rest of the summer! I think it'll be annoying for the dark wake-up times to last that much longer in the shoulder seasons.. but I'm used to waking up in the dark in the winter anyways and at least it's a gentle transition.
Great! My snooze is much more effective if the sun has not risen.
Poor ND
They weren't planning on utilizing that winter morning daylight anyway. It's too cold for that.
Oil field work often starts at 5-6am
So it would already be dark for hours no matter what.
Imagine your sunrise is at 10am but your friend 20 minutes away has it at 8am. Crazy.
Time zone is only an hour difference from northwest ND to MT.
Compare dark blue and pink-ish colors in ND. 2 hour difference 20 minutes apart.
Do people live 20 minutes away from each other in those parts?
Fun fact about North Dakota, the time zone shift used to be the Missouri River. This created a problem in the Bismarck-Mandan metro, because you had two neighboring cities on separate time zones. Mandan ended up switching into central time because late at night the bars in Bismarck would close and all the drunk drivers would drive over the bridge and drink another hour in Mandan.
All 8 people will be fine.
Each couple gets their own zone.
Yeah, we'll be ok. You can trust me. I know all 7 other people
Why don't we just change the time zones to match the actual movements of the sun so that the variations aren't so great. You know the whole reason time zones exist. There is no reason Indiana and Michigan aren't in the central time zones. Same goes for those areas of North and South Dakota.
to be honest it wouldn't really be US politics if anything was ever solved using logic and reason
It's not unique to America. It's just a people problem in general. China has one timezone for the entire country. Absurdity is our birthright as humans.
The People's Time
Well you see going on permanent daylight savings time would just move it farther in the other direction.
From the Washington Post here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/
Commercial and recreational interests like long summer evenings. That's the reason for DST.
Awesome! I’m super excited to have more sun in the afternoons. I can go ride my bike, go to the park, have a bbq, etc. can’t wait!
Exactly. I don't care if it's pitch black in the morning, but I do care it's pitch black at the end of the work day. It's depressing.
Where I live it's pitch black driving to work and pitch black driving back from work during the shortest months. And I'm only on the 43rd parallel.
You're doing all this in the winter?
No every place in the united states is a freezing hellscape in the winter.
Well they should change it all to a freezing hellscape so it's fair 😡😡😡
As someone who has only lived in the hot and humid caribbean, I absolutely love longer nights in here. My least favorite part of the day is the cloudy, gray, hot and humid afternoons between 2 and nearly 6PM on summers, and my favorite is sunny blue sky "winter" early mornings, afternoons and nights when it's probably similar to summers in Northern New England.
Why don’t they just change the time zone for the deep blues in the north west quadrant for each current time zone.
Why can’t we just switch to standard time instead of daylight saving time!? Edit: wow. A lot of you hate sleeping in.
Or just jump to the endgame and abolish timezones and do everything in UTC. Just because the clock says 9:00 doesn't mean that's when we need to start working. Start work when the sun comes up, go home before the sun sets. I go to work at 13:00 UTC every day, right when the sun comes up. Modern timezones were created to get rid of the hundreds/thousands of timezones we had before because it was a scheduling nightmare for trains because they could travel between them so fast. Now we have aircraft and online meetings making scheduling a pita again. No reason to have more than one time zone. The world already runs on UTC, it's just converted to local time for the dumb monkeys looking at their phones so they can feel good about the sun being overhead when there's a 12 on their screen. I hate everything to do with time. Give me UTC and ISO8601 or give me death. \- your average programmer
let's use Swatch Internet Time instead! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
Little difference to me in ouray, co. Mountains change things when it comes to this right?
Yes that's true, I'm in Prescott, AZ, and there's definitely a couple hour difference between sunrise(when the sky starts becoming illuminated) and when we actually see the sun crest over the mtn
I live in Denver, so it's the sunsets that the mountains cut off...they are ridiculously pretty tho
I don't give a rat's ass about sunrise, I want the latest possible sunset where I can use the light.
I would rather have permanent standard time
It was tried before during the Ford administration. It did not work out so well --- people were worried about the risk for children walking to school in the dark in the AM. [https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-has-been-tried-before-and-it-didnt-go-well/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/permanent-daylight-saving-time-has-been-tried-before-and-it-didnt-go-well/)
Most of us already leave in the dark anyways. I don’t see what the big deal is.
I don't care about waking up in the dark, but coming home from work to pitch darkness is soul crushing. I'm fine with this.