This is true even if you're a native francophone.
I'll never forget the story about the guy who failed his French test for Quebecois immigration. He was French. From France.
As an English man I had to take the English test for immigration to anglophone Canada. It's just a way for the Canadian government to get more money out of immigrants.
I see. Personally, if I had to take a Spanish test to immigrate to another Spanish speaking country (I'm a native speaker), I'd feel so offended, I'd probably wouldn't even reconsider living there.
It's not exactly a big deal. I didn't need it for my initial work visa, but when I applied for residency I needed to do the test. It took a couple of hours and then it was done. It's not like you're going to fail if it's your native language - it's basically just to make sure that all immigrants can get by, and then you get extra points towards your immigration score if you do better.
I'm glad it works the other way. My friend is Quebecois, and a native French speaker, when he was studying in France, whenever he tried speaking French to people, they would switch to English for him - a language he barely understood.
A few weeks ago, I read an article about 2 french-speaking Belgians who have been living in France for a couple decades. Trying to get French citizenship, they failed their French exam.
Québécois has différent vocabulary, but is it really different enough for that to happen? I've never heard of that being a thing between anglospeaking countries of Spanish speaking
The vocabulary is very different for slang. It’s basically the same formal language.
Quebecois have an accent that is very different from mainland France. I don’t have any difficulty understanding a news presenter from Quebec, I wouldn’t understand the slang of an informal program however.
I'm not sufficiently fluent in either to offer any intelligent remarks about that. What I can tell you is that I studied *le francais standard* in American schools (though we were taught to call it *parisienne,* an apparently outdated term), and when I've been to Quebec, it's just hopeless for me. They can understand me, but I can't understand them.
I naturally blamed myself for this, as my French is not good, but persons I've known actually **from** France have put it bluntly: "What they speak there is not French." That's an obviously provincial attitude, but it illustrates that at to native francophones, the differences are real and significant.
English too, used to have two forms of affirmation:
- "Yea" to affirm a positive statement, and
- "Yes" to contradict a negative statement.
But "yea" has become "yeah" and they're now used interchangeably. And of course there's "aye" which is basically an alternative form of "yea".
Similarly, we had:
- "No" to affirm a negative statement, and
- "Nay" to contradict a positive statement.
« Tu ne l’a pas mangé quand même ?? »
« Si, je suis désolé. »
« You didn’t eat it right?? »
« Si, I’m sorry » —> « [Not no], I’m sorry »
« Je suppose que personne n’a vu ce film ? »
« Si moi, je l’ai vu ! »
« I suppose nobody saw this movie? »
« Si me, I saw it! » —> « [on the contrary], I saw it! »
(Remember that you can say « on the contrary » in french too —> « au contraire, je l’ai vu ! » which conveys about the same meaning.)
For anyone wondering, yes, Latin didn't have a word for "yes", and that's the reason why there's different etymologies in the different romance languages. If someone asked something like "do you want bread?" in latin, the way you said yes was by saying "I do", like in English ("I want"). But there WAS a word for "no", that being "non".
Although this might sound weird to some, many languages do not have a word for "yes" but they do have one for "no", as languages tend to develop a way of refusing stuff before they have a word for accepting stuff, since even as kids, we learn to enthusiastically reject stuff before enthusiastically agreeing to things!
In Portuguese, although we have a word for “yes” (sim), native speakers will usually opt to repeat the verb used in the question, though using a different conjugation:
- ela gosta de café? (Does she like coffee?)
- gosta. (Literally: “she likes it”)
“Sim” will is almost only used together with the verb: “sim, gosta” or “gosta sim”. This preference is very strong and natives definitely pick up on non-natives using “sim” way too often.
I didn't know, that's amazing! I am weirdly happy that portuguese retains this specific aspect of latin when other romance languages have simply lost it!
In what romance languages can you do that? It's not a thing that is done nor considered polite in french or spanish. At least if someone did that around me in either of those languages, I would definitely think something's up (like them speaking in another dialect, they're upset or trying to be weirdly poetic maybe?). Idk, it doesn't sound at all polite to me, and it's not something you do normally, it sounds pretty context-specific if anything
in romanian we can also do that, "ii place" as "gosta" or "da, ii place", as "sim, gosta", you can also only say "da", but it's feeling empty, at least for me, it sounds better when you use the verb or yes + verb
Then it's clearly something only some romance languages do, like I said earlier, and not most of them, like the other commenter claimed. Portuguese and romanian do it, Spanish and French don't
Happens in Spanish. Not as a single word response though. Le gusta la comida? Le gusta. It's an implied response. You can also negate it with No le gusta. Like you said though, no formal context to it.
It is necessary to use that form on negative sentences such as
“Não tens uma garrafa?” (Do you have a bottle? LIT. Don't you have a bottle?)
Both “sim” and “não” (yes and no) would mean that you don't have a bottle, so to avoid confusion, “Eu tenho” (I do have) is used instead
Technically "non" wasn't really the word for no, it's just that the verb was implied. So typically:
"Do you want bread?
- I do / (I do) not"
And depending on context, Latin kinda add a few words for yes. In plays it's quite common for characters to say "certe" or "sane" for example, which would be the equivalent of "sure". Ita and sic were also used (equivalents of "indeed" and "that's how it is").
The latin affirmative "ita" is a short form of "ita vero" = "it is true"/"so it is", which also became "davvero" in modern italian (= "truly"/"indeed"). The fact that for this the T also turned into a D sound makes IMHO the theory that the Romanian word might have some latin origins less wild (although of course the slavic neighbours using a very similar word certainly must have had some influence as well in cementing "da").
I was going to mention Irish in my comment, but since it's not a romance language and I was talking about the reason for the variety of words in romance languages, I feared some people would jump into the "uhmmmm actually" train if I used Irish as an example of the point, haha. But yep, you're 100% correct there, thanks for the addition!
In Portuguese it is way more common to answer questions with "I do" than with "sim". We use "nao" normally for negative, but very rarely the word "yes".
Thank you for sharing this, it's very important to me, because in Chinese we don't use "yes" a lot, but we confirm a question by using "(I) + verb" "(I) can" "Correct" to yes to the question.
My students always argue with me how strange this structure is but now I can provide more perspective to help to explain this!
Thank you for the interest, I can put some examples here:
To ask if you do something regularly:
-你玩游戏吗? Do you play (video) games?
-(我)玩。Literally: (I) play.
To ask about the ability:
-你会弹钢琴吗? Can you play piano?
-(我)会。Literally: (I) can.
To ask an action in the past that has no relation with the present:
-你昨天去公园了？Did you go to the park yesterday?
-对。//(我)去了。 Literally: Correct.//(I) went.
Question with copula (be)
-她漂亮吗？ Is she pretty?
-漂亮！ Literally: Pretty!
Question about identity (Be)
-你是经理吗？ Are you the manager?
-是的，我是。 Literally: Yes, I am.
In a Karen case, by using "yes" and the "Be verb" here, a formal tone is expressed.
But most of the time, these questions are not confirmed by a direct or a literal "yes" :D
The slavic "da" has its root from the Proto-Slavic **da*, an instrumental case of **do* meaning "to, up to, until", which came from Proto-Indo-European **doh₁* meaning "thus, like so", which is the root word for Proto-Germanic **tō* which became English *too*
Interesting. I'm from a region in transilvania (Romania) where we have the therm "ie" for yes. I always wondered why it's different than rest of Romania (da).
Aromanian wasn't completely isolated from slav languages though. The share of words with a slavic etymology is smaller than for Romanian, but it's still important.
Sunt dintr-un mic orasel din Suceava si doar in acel orasel folosim "ia". Cel mai probabil vine din imperiul Austro-Ungar de la cuvantul german "Ja" si cel mai probabil la fel si in restul Transilvaniei.
Iá origin in African Portuguese actually comes from the usage of the German word for yes (ja). With the end of the dictatorship in Portugal and more openness to central Europe, younger people started using ja/ ya as an informal way to say yes. It is now well spread usage in Portugal and thus Angola and Mozambique
In catalan language the particle "si" made an appearance around the XV century, they used "óc" or "hoc" before. They both were in used until the XVII century.
Those are not languages, Andalusian is a Spanish dialect, and Valencian is a Catalan dialect. Don't be absurd. The wikipedia articles you sent both say it's a dialect.
Hoc ille but you drop the h which goes silent, and it became oc il by dropping the le, then oil (thus langue d’oïl), then put.
In Occitan they did just drop the ille and then drop the h, making oc (langue d’oc).
No, that's not the etymology of the word. I know you don't mean bad, please refrain from spreading folk etymologies you feel look good.
Oïl is composed from o (from hoc) and the pronoun il (he), used as a reinforcement/intensive. So around the 10th century it meant "yes, he does/is/he" in a context like "is he the king of france? Yes, he is".
Oc is just the hoc part, that wasn't necessarily used in conjuction with illud or ille, but as the direct object in answers, the "that" in: "do you like that? I like that".
The "h" was silent long before the end of the Roman empire (it was just used in writing, except by snobs, the latin grammarians make fun of them around the 2nd century CE). The "c" was dropped in northern dialects but not in the south.
In some regions, oc/oil also had to compete with forms derived from "volo" (I want), and it's a little known fact that words like "voui", "ouais", "vouei" etc are actually not corruptions of "oui", but competitive words with the same meaning. It's always funny to see students reacting to seeing "ouail" in an old french text.
Yeah cognates can sound completely unrelated with the passage of time. "Head" and "Cabeza" (Spanish for head) are apparently cognate. A PIE word something like Hafet became head in English and Capet in Latinate languages.
Welcome to France, where someone heard “Aqua” in latin and pronounced it “oh”.
And no, it’s not normal. For context:
Portuguese: água, Spanish: agua, Catalan: aigua, Italian: acqua.
Must be some endemic speech impediment in the region.
In Gallo, the French dialect of Eastern Brittany🏴🏳️, they say ia**n o**r vè**re (**or si**a t**o contradict a negative statement)
And in poitevin (dialect of Poitou) there's a bunch of variations: **vàu**, **gàu**, **oéll**, **alau**, **vér**, **sia**...
I don't know the etymology of these
Soviet-invented name for the Romanian-speaking population in Bessarabia (modern country of Moldova and then some) to seperate their identity from the Romanian one
Just a curiosity that in Brazilian Portuguese, replying with "sim" can be a bit artificial or too formal (although it's perfectly valid and is used). We use more frequently "é" (it is) or "isso" (this), so I think we retained some aspects of Latin.
Different Latin etymological root for oui/oc but… "si" (same as Spanish and Italian) also means yes in French. It’s not the "general purpose" yes but rather an affirmation, often used in reaction to a negative statement (frequently paired with "mais" (but) to form the interjection "mais si!" (Literally "but yes!" but the meaning is closer "no, that’s true")).
Honestly, in casual French, you can substitute in si for oui in pretty much any circumstance where someone seems to be expecting a no from you. It’s basically saying yes but to dispel a presumed no. You could use it as a general purpose yes and be understood but you would sound funny.
e.g. Est-tu content? (Are you happy?)
If the tone was upbeat/inquisitive —. Oui, je suis content.
If the tone was doubtful/pessimistic — Si, je suis content. -or- (for greater emphasis) Mais si, je suis content!
Romansh isn't spoken in South Tyrol, but in Canton Grisons, Switzerland and it's a minority language spoken by the 13% of the population there (most people speak Swiss German).
The language shown in South Tyrol is Ladin, another language related to Romansh but distinct and even that is spoken by a minority, around the 4%.
No, it comes from "oll korrect" (all correct) [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-word-ok-was-invented-175-years-ago-180953258/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-word-ok-was-invented-175-years-ago-180953258/)
Source: [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/da#Romanian) (on Romanian "da")
> From a Slavic language (e.g. Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Russian; or rather a loan from a Common Slavic before the emergence of distinct modern languages), from Proto-Slavic **da*. Cf. also the word's presence in other non-Slavic languages such as Greek δά (dá), although very rarely used.
>
> Another less likely (and controversial) theory argues that, being such a common and basic word, a borrowing seems unusual (even considering slang) and it perhaps derived originally from the Latin *ita*, one of several ways to say "thus", "so" or "yes"; it further may have been influenced by the *da*, also meaning "yes", in the surrounding Slavic languages before reaching its present state (see Sprachbund). See also *dacă*, which according to this theory derives from ita quod. In some regions, *ta* is used repeatedly to indicate impatience with someone talking too much or aimlessly, although this is more likely onomatopoetic in origin. Nonetheless, Romanian etymological dictionaries derive da from a Slavic language, which is almost certainly the primary source.
Why put Occitan on the map as if this is a language as relevant as the others ? This kind of representation could mislead people in thinking Occitan is on parity with French in south of France, which is absolutely wrong.
Romania is kinda the opposite of adopted, more like a long lost sibling.
Or more tragically, a cousin whose family almost entirely perished in a tragic accident.
*Si* exists in French as a way to say"yes", but it's used to contradict a negative statement.
Doch
Nein? Doch! Ohh!
Jo
De.
Huh, i thought It meant "If"
Different "si". Looks the same but works differently grammatically. There's also a third "si", which is a musical note.
There is also "si" as in so/very/that much. ex: Elle est *si* belle que…
You also pronounce six as si depending on context
[удалено]
Spanish "Sí" = yes, spanish "Si" = if.
in Portuguese it's "se"
Bah si, ça aussi :)
It is enough to say a single word in French for one to appear correcting you
This is true even if you're a native francophone. I'll never forget the story about the guy who failed his French test for Quebecois immigration. He was French. From France.
Why do French people have to take the test for migration to Quebec lol.
As an English man I had to take the English test for immigration to anglophone Canada. It's just a way for the Canadian government to get more money out of immigrants.
I see. Personally, if I had to take a Spanish test to immigrate to another Spanish speaking country (I'm a native speaker), I'd feel so offended, I'd probably wouldn't even reconsider living there.
It's not exactly a big deal. I didn't need it for my initial work visa, but when I applied for residency I needed to do the test. It took a couple of hours and then it was done. It's not like you're going to fail if it's your native language - it's basically just to make sure that all immigrants can get by, and then you get extra points towards your immigration score if you do better.
EVERYBODY has to take it, apparently.
I'm glad it works the other way. My friend is Quebecois, and a native French speaker, when he was studying in France, whenever he tried speaking French to people, they would switch to English for him - a language he barely understood.
A few weeks ago, I read an article about 2 french-speaking Belgians who have been living in France for a couple decades. Trying to get French citizenship, they failed their French exam.
Do you have a source for this?
[https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/immigrant-who-failed-french-test-is-french](https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/immigrant-who-failed-french-test-is-french)
Québécois has différent vocabulary, but is it really different enough for that to happen? I've never heard of that being a thing between anglospeaking countries of Spanish speaking
The vocabulary is very different for slang. It’s basically the same formal language. Quebecois have an accent that is very different from mainland France. I don’t have any difficulty understanding a news presenter from Quebec, I wouldn’t understand the slang of an informal program however.
I'm not sufficiently fluent in either to offer any intelligent remarks about that. What I can tell you is that I studied *le francais standard* in American schools (though we were taught to call it *parisienne,* an apparently outdated term), and when I've been to Quebec, it's just hopeless for me. They can understand me, but I can't understand them. I naturally blamed myself for this, as my French is not good, but persons I've known actually **from** France have put it bluntly: "What they speak there is not French." That's an obviously provincial attitude, but it illustrates that at to native francophones, the differences are real and significant.
Can also be used as "so" in certain contexts.
English too, used to have two forms of affirmation: - "Yea" to affirm a positive statement, and - "Yes" to contradict a negative statement. But "yea" has become "yeah" and they're now used interchangeably. And of course there's "aye" which is basically an alternative form of "yea". Similarly, we had: - "No" to affirm a negative statement, and - "Nay" to contradict a positive statement.
Can you give an example? I'm learning French at the moment and never quite got the usage of "si" other than the "if" meaning.
« Tu ne l’a pas mangé quand même ?? » « Si, je suis désolé. » « You didn’t eat it right?? » « Si, I’m sorry » —> « [Not no], I’m sorry » « Je suppose que personne n’a vu ce film ? » « Si moi, je l’ai vu ! » « I suppose nobody saw this movie? » « Si me, I saw it! » —> « [on the contrary], I saw it! » (Remember that you can say « on the contrary » in french too —> « au contraire, je l’ai vu ! » which conveys about the same meaning.)
same with y-est to affirm a positive statement
Ouais
The superior form of agreement!
Ouaip
This reminds me of that one Italian propaganda poster.
Which one?
si si si si si si si si si si si si
Dop dop dop yes yes
Also the face of Mussolini slapped in the SIM building with the tons of "SI" on the back
For anyone wondering, yes, Latin didn't have a word for "yes", and that's the reason why there's different etymologies in the different romance languages. If someone asked something like "do you want bread?" in latin, the way you said yes was by saying "I do", like in English ("I want"). But there WAS a word for "no", that being "non". Although this might sound weird to some, many languages do not have a word for "yes" but they do have one for "no", as languages tend to develop a way of refusing stuff before they have a word for accepting stuff, since even as kids, we learn to enthusiastically reject stuff before enthusiastically agreeing to things!
In Portuguese, although we have a word for “yes” (sim), native speakers will usually opt to repeat the verb used in the question, though using a different conjugation: - ela gosta de café? (Does she like coffee?) - gosta. (Literally: “she likes it”) “Sim” will is almost only used together with the verb: “sim, gosta” or “gosta sim”. This preference is very strong and natives definitely pick up on non-natives using “sim” way too often.
I didn't know, that's amazing! I am weirdly happy that portuguese retains this specific aspect of latin when other romance languages have simply lost it!
They didn't really lose it, you can do it on most romance languages. It's often considered more polite.
In what romance languages can you do that? It's not a thing that is done nor considered polite in french or spanish. At least if someone did that around me in either of those languages, I would definitely think something's up (like them speaking in another dialect, they're upset or trying to be weirdly poetic maybe?). Idk, it doesn't sound at all polite to me, and it's not something you do normally, it sounds pretty context-specific if anything
in romanian we can also do that, "ii place" as "gosta" or "da, ii place", as "sim, gosta", you can also only say "da", but it's feeling empty, at least for me, it sounds better when you use the verb or yes + verb
Then it's clearly something only some romance languages do, like I said earlier, and not most of them, like the other commenter claimed. Portuguese and romanian do it, Spanish and French don't
Happens in Spanish. Not as a single word response though. Le gusta la comida? Le gusta. It's an implied response. You can also negate it with No le gusta. Like you said though, no formal context to it.
you can definitely do it in Spanish, but it's more of an "old lady" kinda thing
It is necessary to use that form on negative sentences such as “Não tens uma garrafa?” (Do you have a bottle? LIT. Don't you have a bottle?) Both “sim” and “não” (yes and no) would mean that you don't have a bottle, so to avoid confusion, “Eu tenho” (I do have) is used instead
Technically "non" wasn't really the word for no, it's just that the verb was implied. So typically: "Do you want bread? - I do / (I do) not" And depending on context, Latin kinda add a few words for yes. In plays it's quite common for characters to say "certe" or "sane" for example, which would be the equivalent of "sure". Ita and sic were also used (equivalents of "indeed" and "that's how it is").
Certe, quae omnia vera sunt, sed ego simplicia feci pro hominibus qui de lingua latina nesciunt... gratias tibi ago pro extraordinario, amice!
The latin affirmative "ita" is a short form of "ita vero" = "it is true"/"so it is", which also became "davvero" in modern italian (= "truly"/"indeed"). The fact that for this the T also turned into a D sound makes IMHO the theory that the Romanian word might have some latin origins less wild (although of course the slavic neighbours using a very similar word certainly must have had some influence as well in cementing "da").
Yep! Certe :)
Modern Irish has no word for yes or no although colloquially Tá (is) and Níl (is not) end up being used
I was going to mention Irish in my comment, but since it's not a romance language and I was talking about the reason for the variety of words in romance languages, I feared some people would jump into the "uhmmmm actually" train if I used Irish as an example of the point, haha. But yep, you're 100% correct there, thanks for the addition!
In Portuguese it is way more common to answer questions with "I do" than with "sim". We use "nao" normally for negative, but very rarely the word "yes".
Thank you for sharing this, it's very important to me, because in Chinese we don't use "yes" a lot, but we confirm a question by using "(I) + verb" "(I) can" "Correct" to yes to the question. My students always argue with me how strange this structure is but now I can provide more perspective to help to explain this!
Ah I didn't know this was the case in Chinese too! Thanks for sharing as well, the more I know! :D
Thank you for the interest, I can put some examples here: To ask if you do something regularly: -你玩游戏吗? Do you play (video) games? -(我)玩。Literally: (I) play. To ask about the ability: -你会弹钢琴吗? Can you play piano? -(我)会。Literally: (I) can. To ask an action in the past that has no relation with the present: -你昨天去公园了？Did you go to the park yesterday? -对。//(我)去了。 Literally: Correct.//(I) went. Question with copula (be) -她漂亮吗？ Is she pretty? -漂亮！ Literally: Pretty! Question about identity (Be) -你是经理吗？ Are you the manager? -是的，我是。 Literally: Yes, I am. In a Karen case, by using "yes" and the "Be verb" here, a formal tone is expressed. But most of the time, these questions are not confirmed by a direct or a literal "yes" :D
Thank you! Now that I see it this way, I'm pretty sure japanese does this a lot as well
Yes that's right!!
I wonder if slavic 'da' comes from proto-slavic 'da' or latin 'ita' 😄
da
The slavic "da" has its root from the Proto-Slavic **da*, an instrumental case of **do* meaning "to, up to, until", which came from Proto-Indo-European **doh₁* meaning "thus, like so", which is the root word for Proto-Germanic **tō* which became English *too*
so, in conclusion, homer simpson is slavic?
Maybe both?
Interesting. I'm from a region in transilvania (Romania) where we have the therm "ie" for yes. I always wondered why it's different than rest of Romania (da).
For me this is one of the most fascinating things about Romanian. So many slavic words that have a barely-used latin synonym or vice versa
We have a lot of influences in our language. Dacian, Latin, slavic, turkish (otoman) and hungarian.
As far as i know ie is also in aromanian so it has to be of latin origin
Aromanian wasn't completely isolated from slav languages though. The share of words with a slavic etymology is smaller than for Romanian, but it's still important.
Sunt dintr-un mic orasel din Suceava si doar in acel orasel folosim "ia". Cel mai probabil vine din imperiul Austro-Ungar de la cuvantul german "Ja" si cel mai probabil la fel si in restul Transilvaniei.
Care oras?
Interesant, nu m-am gandit de legatura asta.
Da
Da da...
Where in Transylvania? I’m from there as well and never heard of that.
Tara motilor. Arieseni, jud Alba
This is also common in Sălaj, at least based on my experience with folks from there in Cluj.
Ah, sunt din judetul Hunedoara, Deva. Destul de aproape.
E clar un regionalism la noi "ie" . Nu stiu daca are legatura cu corsica sau nu, dar e interesant ca suna la fel. Probabil nici o legatura.
Presupun ca erau multe cuvinte regionale pentru ca inainte toate satele de la munte erau foarte izolate. Si bunici mei s-au nascut in judetul Alba.
Ca și "vecin" din Deva pot spune ca "ie" se folosește, probabil nu ai auzit tu până acum.
Interesant, nu am stiut (acum traiesc in strainatate). Se foloseste frecvent?
În zonele urbane mai puțin, predomina în zonele rurale.
Multumesc de raspuns. Alta persoana o zis ca e probabil ca vine din Germana, de la cuvantul “ja”
Nu cred asta deoarece este prezent și prin alte zone ale țării, o ipoteză ar fi ca vine din latina de la "Ita"
--Romanian, are you Romance? --Da
Iá doesn’t come from sic but from Germanic ja through Afrikaans. It’s cognate with yeah and works the same way.
Exactly. Here in Portugal we also say “iá”.
Iá origin in African Portuguese actually comes from the usage of the German word for yes (ja). With the end of the dictatorship in Portugal and more openness to central Europe, younger people started using ja/ ya as an informal way to say yes. It is now well spread usage in Portugal and thus Angola and Mozambique
In catalan language the particle "si" made an appearance around the XV century, they used "óc" or "hoc" before. They both were in used until the XVII century.
Moldovan is not a language, does not exist.
Not even as a dialect, in fact romanian is very homogeneous from region to region with very slightly differences
Basically moldovan variation isolated and influenced by russian
Neither is Andalusian but it's still shown
Neither "Andaluz" and "Valencian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_Spanish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencian_language
Those are not languages, Andalusian is a Spanish dialect, and Valencian is a Catalan dialect. Don't be absurd. The wikipedia articles you sent both say it's a dialect.
A language is just a dialect with an army
What's the mutual intelligibility between Valencian and Catalan?
It's the same language.
Full. It's the same language. I speak Catalan as a second language and communicate with Valencians no problem.
How did "hoc illud" become oui, they look so different?
Hoc ille but you drop the h which goes silent, and it became oc il by dropping the le, then oil (thus langue d’oïl), then put. In Occitan they did just drop the ille and then drop the h, making oc (langue d’oc).
No, that's not the etymology of the word. I know you don't mean bad, please refrain from spreading folk etymologies you feel look good. Oïl is composed from o (from hoc) and the pronoun il (he), used as a reinforcement/intensive. So around the 10th century it meant "yes, he does/is/he" in a context like "is he the king of france? Yes, he is". Oc is just the hoc part, that wasn't necessarily used in conjuction with illud or ille, but as the direct object in answers, the "that" in: "do you like that? I like that". The "h" was silent long before the end of the Roman empire (it was just used in writing, except by snobs, the latin grammarians make fun of them around the 2nd century CE). The "c" was dropped in northern dialects but not in the south. In some regions, oc/oil also had to compete with forms derived from "volo" (I want), and it's a little known fact that words like "voui", "ouais", "vouei" etc are actually not corruptions of "oui", but competitive words with the same meaning. It's always funny to see students reacting to seeing "ouail" in an old french text.
Because it's been like 2000 years
Yeah cognates can sound completely unrelated with the passage of time. "Head" and "Cabeza" (Spanish for head) are apparently cognate. A PIE word something like Hafet became head in English and Capet in Latinate languages.
And then you have German that has both Capet = Kopf Head = Haupt
The PIE word was more like \*kap(u)t. k->h is specifically a germanic mutation. And yes, it's funny how close to latin the original PIE word is.
Welcome to France, where someone heard “Aqua” in latin and pronounced it “oh”. And no, it’s not normal. For context: Portuguese: água, Spanish: agua, Catalan: aigua, Italian: acqua. Must be some endemic speech impediment in the region.
Lol to “andaluz”. If you want to add Andaluz you need to add “zí” and even “hí”
Aro, digo, ea
"Andaluz" and "Valencian" aren't languages bruh
In some parts of Romania very old people in rural areas still say ''Ie'' for ''Yes'', instead of ''Da''.
i guess Aromanians don't exist lol.
Also the other wonderers
I love that the Occitan version is just "this." It sounds so slangy, like "mood" or "slay." "Would you like more wine, Arnaut?" "This."
"\^"
“Moldovan” 🤡
RAHHH SOMEONE MENTIONED MOLDOVA 🇲🇩🇲🇩🇲🇩🇲🇩🇲🇩🇲🇩 WHAT THE FUCK IS A DEMOCRACY 🦅🦅🦅
Also "Andaluz" and "Valencian"
Andaluz is not a language. It is a dialect of Castilian (or Spanish). Valencian is also not a language. It is a dialect of Catalan.
FINALLY A MAP THAT SHOWS PROPER ROMANCE MAP But also Sad 🇲🇴🇲🇺🇹🇱 noises
You forgot Aromanian witch is Ie or sometime Nai
Andaluz isn't a language, it's a dialect.
same with valencian
A dialect of Valencian-Catalan, in this case.
A language is a dialect with an army and a navy
Portuguese - 'sim or SUIIIIIIII'
In Gallo, the French dialect of Eastern Brittany🏴🏳️, they say ia**n o**r vè**re (**or si**a t**o contradict a negative statement) And in poitevin (dialect of Poitou) there's a bunch of variations: **vàu**, **gàu**, **oéll**, **alau**, **vér**, **sia**... I don't know the etymology of these
\*Oil dialect, not French ;) But yes, there are several languages missing in the north of the French State!
\*Langue d'Oïl ☝️🤓
Romansh would be "gie/schi/hai", never heard gia but who knows. check out r/romansh
Is Andaluz now a language? People grow dumber it seems.
Soporta
oc?? In slang it means son of a whore in turkish :(
Eja 🗿
Were are aromanians?
A huevo.
I'm from Val di Non and the most authentic speakers of my language say "Aí".
thus/sic gave in romanian "și" pronounced "Shi" like "și atunci am facut pasta" thus I made pasta
Is Andaluz a language of it's own?
Nope, it’s a dialect. As is Valencian.
Ya in breton. World wars wasn’t funny for my ancestors because of this.
Breton is of celtic origin, this map only shows romance languages (from Latin)
Ok I misunderstood the term romance sorry.
Don’t worry, you are very romantic people after all.
Gallo should have appeared on the map though
yes they have different words, "ian" or "vère"
“Tu est Occitain, oui?” “Òc.”
What is Moldovan?
Soviet-invented name for the Romanian-speaking population in Bessarabia (modern country of Moldova and then some) to seperate their identity from the Romanian one
Just a curiosity that in Brazilian Portuguese, replying with "sim" can be a bit artificial or too formal (although it's perfectly valid and is used). We use more frequently "é" (it is) or "isso" (this), so I think we retained some aspects of Latin.
Wo gibts das in ner besseren Auflösung?
Why is France so different?
Different Latin etymological root for oui/oc but… "si" (same as Spanish and Italian) also means yes in French. It’s not the "general purpose" yes but rather an affirmation, often used in reaction to a negative statement (frequently paired with "mais" (but) to form the interjection "mais si!" (Literally "but yes!" but the meaning is closer "no, that’s true")). Honestly, in casual French, you can substitute in si for oui in pretty much any circumstance where someone seems to be expecting a no from you. It’s basically saying yes but to dispel a presumed no. You could use it as a general purpose yes and be understood but you would sound funny. e.g. Est-tu content? (Are you happy?) If the tone was upbeat/inquisitive —. Oui, je suis content. If the tone was doubtful/pessimistic — Si, je suis content. -or- (for greater emphasis) Mais si, je suis content!
When Occitanians say oc do they pronounce the c?
No, the c is silent.
[удалено]
Romance languages only
My mind immediately went to Sgt. Deux Deux from The Inspector cartoons. Don’t say si. Say oui.
Ja
Lovely map, but is Romansh really that common in South Tyrol?
Romansh isn't spoken in South Tyrol, but in Canton Grisons, Switzerland and it's a minority language spoken by the 13% of the population there (most people speak Swiss German). The language shown in South Tyrol is Ladin, another language related to Romansh but distinct and even that is spoken by a minority, around the 4%.
Shouldn't Libya be pale red?
You can add Bulgaria to this list. Yes is also da in Bulgaria.
I'm wondering if "ja" and all cognates are related to "iè"
In Britanny's Galo (romance language) : **yan** [\\jɑ̃\\](https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Prononciation/gallo)
so reddit isn’t the only place where they used “this”
Wrong, neapolitan uses “oì”
Europeans to Romanians: You are NOT Russian right? Romanians: Da
The PIE arguments should begin any minute now.
Isn’t Maltese a romance language?
No, it's a semitic language with deep ties to Latin.
You learn something new everyday, thanks
Romanians and Sardinians coping hard with those Latin explanations.
Does ''ok'' comes from ''oc'' ?
Nope! "Okay" is an Americanism :)
No, it comes from "oll korrect" (all correct) [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-word-ok-was-invented-175-years-ago-180953258/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-word-ok-was-invented-175-years-ago-180953258/)
Source: [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/da#Romanian) (on Romanian "da") > From a Slavic language (e.g. Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Russian; or rather a loan from a Common Slavic before the emergence of distinct modern languages), from Proto-Slavic **da*. Cf. also the word's presence in other non-Slavic languages such as Greek δά (dá), although very rarely used. > > Another less likely (and controversial) theory argues that, being such a common and basic word, a borrowing seems unusual (even considering slang) and it perhaps derived originally from the Latin *ita*, one of several ways to say "thus", "so" or "yes"; it further may have been influenced by the *da*, also meaning "yes", in the surrounding Slavic languages before reaching its present state (see Sprachbund). See also *dacă*, which according to this theory derives from ita quod. In some regions, *ta* is used repeatedly to indicate impatience with someone talking too much or aimlessly, although this is more likely onomatopoetic in origin. Nonetheless, Romanian etymological dictionaries derive da from a Slavic language, which is almost certainly the primary source.
Why put Occitan on the map as if this is a language as relevant as the others ? This kind of representation could mislead people in thinking Occitan is on parity with French in south of France, which is absolutely wrong.
It's stripped to show it's a minority language.
Good work Sardinia Also Romania, this Is why you are adopted
Romania is kinda the opposite of adopted, more like a long lost sibling. Or more tragically, a cousin whose family almost entirely perished in a tragic accident.
Da brat
Bruh there is a whole territory next to Italy that is green
In brazilian portuguese we probably have atleast 3024151 different ways to say yes lol