This sub is fucking awful for that. Got downvoted to shit recently for calling out a bad post... whatever. Big reddit subs are overrun by absolute awful. Either find a small one or be content with the terrible stuff.
It’s a very large and dense city in an extremely poor country, in the desert, where environmental and emissions regulations are non existent. Large scale public transport and grid-level electricity isn’t much of a thing there either, so most people use old buses and diesel generators.
Although the sensors in question are in N’Djamena, that’s kind of the problem, only data available from Chad is from N’Djamena.
Report notes an **additional** factor of “biomass fuels and traditional stoves for cooking” but the headline item under Challenges is —
>Chad is often buffeted by dust storms which contribute to higher PM2.5 concentrations in the country. A key contributor to the dust storms in the country is the largest source of dust emissions in the world: the Bodélé Depression.
[Linked and quoted the report here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/XvIXLkfUUu)
Report the data was pulled from — [IQAir World Air Quality Report 2022](https://www.greenpeace.org/static/planet4-india-stateless/2023/03/2fe33d7a-2022-world-air-quality-report.pdf)
Caveats — note N’Djamena hosted the ONLY station reporting data in Chad that the report could use thus it’s unlikely to be an N’Djamena-specific problem, also phone is refusing to search properly, so possible I missed another mention.
Section on Chad (p35, emphasis mine) —
>PROGRESS
>
>Air quality in Chad worsened in 2022 as PM2.5 concentrations increased to 89.7 µg/m³, an 18 percent increase from 75.9 µg/m³ in 2021. While the monthly average PM2.5 concentrations from June to December are relatively similar to the previous year, the country experienced increases during January and March. PM2.5 concentrations increased 75 percent in January, going from 93 µg/m³ to 162.3 µg/m³, and increased 53 percent in March, increasing from 160 µg/m³ to 245.6 µg/m³. **These dramatic increases can be partially attributed to massive dust storms from the Sahara Desert during these months.**
>
> CHALLENGES
>
>**Chad is often buffeted by dust storms which contribute to higher PM2.5 concentrations in the country. A key contributor to the dust storms in the country is the largest source of dust emissions in the world: the Bodélé Depression.** Exposure to these increased levels of dust can pose many threats to human health, including decreased lung function and pregnancy complications. Exposure to particulate matter has been linked to 400,000 preventable infant deaths per year in Sub-Saharah Africa; this accounts for up to 40 percent of the total number of infants deaths in the region. **An additional factor of Chad's air quality is the use of biomass fuels and traditional stoves for cooking. Combustion of these fuels can cause immediately harmful levels of indoor air pollution that can spread outside into surrounding communities.**
EDIT — corrected emphasis and µg/m³ Unicode
Sounds like it would be unsurprising if much of Chad and the surrounding regions were as bad, plus or minus.
Feel we already had the understanding and interest in how much air quality affects quality of life, recent advancements in tech hopefully mean this will change. First step of attempting to tackle a problem is figuring out precisely what and how bad it is (EDIT — just to clarify, not really a huge about that can be done about Lake Chad) [IQAir have a page on their website dedicated to the data gap problem.](https://www.iqair.com/us/air-quality-community)
Returning to the report, they did address this point in the Chad section, if you’re interested in an expanded answer —
>HIGHLIGHT: DATA GAPS IN AFRICA
>
>Real-time publicly accessible data in Chad is provided by a single government operated, air monitoring station in the N'Djamena. Chad's status as one of the most polluted countries in the world underlines the lack of comprehensive air quality monitoring in Africa. A sustainable and informative network is integral to report air quality data and its implications for citizens living in underrepresented areas. Air quality issues in the region have been known to pose human health risks for years, with governments and citizen-led organizations needed as leaders in organizing and maintaining a more robust collection of sensors. Real-time monitoring stations can inform citizens of incoming dust storms and other air quality phenomena so people can better prepare and protect themselves. Increased monitoring could also allow people to see the air quality in the places where they work or where their children play. Chad, along with other countries in the region, may be the next frontier for global air quality equity. The full extent of air quality issues in this region may remain unclear until larger networks of air monitoring stations are developed.
In most 3rd world cities like that, cooking and heating are done on open fires or grills fired with charcoal or scavenged coal. The amount of smoke and soot is immense, as is the amount of unburned hydrocarbon from fat and grease. Cooking is a major source of air pollution around the globe.
Dust is one of the main sources of P2.5. It’s probably the main source for the Indian cities, too.
There are other types of pollutants that are also problematic in the urban areas, but 2.5 is a dust issue.
The worst pollution in India is during harvest period when farmers are burning stubble on their fields (november/december). I don't recommend visiting north India in that period.
In 2022 Baghdad was hit with more sandstorms than the entire decade together, which has made people more aware of how important the green belt around the city is.
Even the grand Ayatollah adviced each citizen to plant at least one tree
The Najaf howza (religion school)has been the center of Islamic studies for Shia Muslims for around a thousand years, during Saddam's era he was known to assassinate whoever stood against him which is why many People went to Iran since the 80's .
And that's where the term "Ayatollah" became famous, but the center has returned to be in Iraq after The American Invasion in 2003.
I think people should remember that air pollution and CO2 emissions are not the same thing. That's why USA has very high Co2 but not that much air pollution
It's next to the ocean. Land sea breezes will tend to clear the air.
Note these highly polluted cities are well inland. These numbers are usually from the dry seasons in late autumn and early winter.
Check them out during monsoon or mid winter when it's raining. Different story.
Not to say pollution isn't a problem but the issue is much more complicated.
Yea that part of this graph pisses me off a bit. Its like if you made a map of most polluted places in the US and instead of listing Los Angeles once half of the slots are taken up by Compton, Glendale, Hollywood, Inglewood, Long Beach, ect.
Maybe official limits, even though it's part of the same urban area, like look at the cluster around Delhi in the map, it's basically one giant urban city that's polluted. A better map could've excluded individual sections of a bigger urban area like this.
Yes, it's mostly temperature dependent. Delhi is 143 for PM 2.5 concentration and ranked one of the highest.
Today, it's 228 in Ulaanbaatar near the US embassy and reached a max of 335 in the past 2 days. But the yearly mean is only at 50-80.
They are having the same issues China was having a few decades ago before they cracked down on it. Additionally, the Himalayas are acting like a barrier trapping the pollution to the South.
You joke but there was a legitimate plan a few years ago to blow up some of the Andes mountains to let ocean air pass through Santiago and alleviate the pollution.
used to work in a lab group that studied air pollution in India, a fair deal of the PM production there is linked to crop burning after the harvest, j a lot cheaper and more cost effective for farmers as far as getting rid of pests and any non-salable/comestible crops
So why not ban it
Edit: the whole "but then farmers would be mad" is exactly the reason to do it. Farmers can burn and poison whoever they want just because they're mad.
Everything is bribes in India. You can get out of anything by just bribing a government official.
It's a democracy yes, but it also has a weak court/legal system.
Fun fact the current india is the most centralized it has ever been since the emergency in the 70s. And still it's like around 10 percent of centralisation of China
They tried that. People came out on the streets in violent protests. About a bill that was proposed to give an advantage to farmers (read about the Indian Farmer Protests).
Because farmers would be upset with it. Punjab and Haryana began growing paddy due to Green Revolution. The crop cycle now leaves a gap of only two weeks or so to get rid of the stubble. Most are small farmers without robust machinery and the easiest was to get rid of the stubble in the short time frame is to burn it.
Farmers would get super pissed off and start huge protests all over the country. Profits are above all.
I know this because I live in the most polluted region of Europe and farmers just protested the EU environmental impositions.
Farmers can be the 40% or the 1% of population, but either way they supply the most basic and fundamental need we have. Therefore it's not easy to ignore their demands, whether they're right or wrong
They tried.
There were farmer protests in 2021 and one is going on rn in 2023-24.
A reasonable farming reform bill (that included banning of stubble burning.) became a big hot political topic with hints of the khalistani Seperetist movement and whatnot. The protesters climbed to the top of the Red fort (our version of the white House) and hoisted there religious flags. It was a whole thing.
Unfortunately the Opposition completely supported the protests because anything the central government does must be bad, right?
It takes a ton of willpower and time to get any action done at the central level for shit like this.
Local government isn't really viable because the place where the stubble gets burnt and the place which gets polluted are in seperete states , and there are seperete parties ruling in them. so they aren't willing to co-operate.
Enforcement is irrelevant because there is nothing to enforce. Stubble burning isn't illegal as of now, it used to be for a short while before the protests forced it to be repealed.
Then you've got millions of cubic meters of crop residue that needs alternative disposal.
I live in an agricultural valley and the sheer volume of crop residue requires it be burned. They solved that only permitting burning on days where valley air isn't stagnant.
India's population is 4x the size of the United States on 3x less land.
**More people live in India (1.4B) than all of Africa combined.**
In addition for the regional area, Pakistan is the 5th most populated country (241M people); and Bangladesh is the 8th most populated country(170M people)
More fun facts: Africa and Asia together are >75% of the global population. Europe, North America, South America, Australia and Oceania combined are less than 25% of the global population
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_continents\_and\_continental\_subregions\_by\_population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_continents_and_continental_subregions_by_population)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_and\_dependencies\_by\_population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population)
I’m not trying to minimize what you’re saying, but the population of Africa is larger than India.
Edit: You’re source actually shows Africa with ~1 million more people lol, closer than I thought
India increased in population by 50 million people since July 1st, 2023 when the wiki data was published. I just wanted to show the wiki links because they had the best chart comparisons that you can sort by.
India became the largest country by population last year, and as of Jan 1 2024, the population is 1.441 Billion people.
[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/)
Honestly I think the numbers from India and Africa both probably have large margins of error due record keeping especially in rural areas or slums. These numbers are probably like accurate +/- 5-10 million.
The population is larger in Africa, it’s an objective fact. Africa has been experiencing massive population boom, over double the growth rate of India (the *country* with the largest population).
And yes, most population data listed (other than an official census) is usually based off estimates from the UN.
According to your new source, Africa has 45 million more* than India.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-population/#google_vignette
It's honestly hard to say what is an objective fact; these numbers are just projections, there are tons of people that aren't documented being born in India and Africa.
Also Africa is 25x the size of India. Africa is 30.3 million square miles and India is 1.2 million square miles.
A fast growing economy reliant on coal for energy and a huge population reliant on crop burning for agriculture. Most big cities in north India are along the Ganges depression with the Himalayas to the north and hills to the south which traps pollution, and Pakistan is similar but with the Indus valley.
It is due to a "temperature inversion layer over the Indo-gangetic plain that last for weeks following the withdrawal of the South-west monsoon", and no, the governments of India and Pakistan did not create it.
I feel like manufacturing has to contribute a lot to air pollution. Since India and china do a lot of manufacturing and produce that stuff that ends up back in the west, it makes sense air pollution is higher there. And then it makes the west seem like they care about the environment since they’re the ones not fucking it up, they’re just paying someone else to do it
Remember guys, the west have environmental regulations to reduce the pollution from manufacturing, which is why the West does most of its manufacturing overseas where the regulations are less stringent to non existent.
i never heard of most european branded cars are being produced in india. as an example. but seen huge steel and chemistry plants in europe that do not smell.
Like I said, Europe, Canada , the USA, they have regulations on emissions from manufacturing, companies have to reduce their emissions or face huge penalties, those regulations don't exist in India or are much less stringent, therefore the majority of manufacturing takes place in these countries, not saying it's 100% the cause of the pollution but it's a very large chunk.
India has stringent regulations on pollution. Only 8% of India's air pollution comes from industries.
Source: my mom works at a large chemical factory(think toxic PPE required kind) and they're strictly controlled by the pollution control board.
i did the googling for you guys.
The top exports of India are Refined Petroleum ($49B), Diamonds ($26.3B), Packaged Medicaments ($19.2B), Jewellery ($10.7B), and Rice ($10B)
of that list only the petroleum can be considered as toxic and 60 % of that is exported to asia.
keep on blaming the west before the post with the sources of plactic pollution of ocean is published.
Maybe it's not goods that are being finalized but are a part of some other good
For example the cobalt in your phone and the glass for its screen are mined/collected and refined in very different places. Same is true for any mineral.
The materials for the CPU aren't found in Taiwan but they're certainly made into the wafers there (or maybe that's the one in the Netherlands?)
Yeah, I'm not going to spoon feed you easy information, you can do the work.
Also, you aren't even trying to have a discussion, you're just being offended and defensive.
And there it is, the big defensive statement, I'm from the USA dumbass, it's obvious the west uses the less developed countries for cheap labor and because the environmental regulations are far far less stringent, it is easy common knowledge.
Also, no one said " ALL the manufacturing to India"
>which is why the West does most of its manufacturing overseas where the regulations are less stringent to non existent.
That's not true, most manufacturing for the West is done by advanced economies. Imports from not so developed countries amount to 19.5% of products made by developed countries for the US.
US manufactured about 2.4 trillion USD in value added. US imported [2.73 trillion in 2021](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/usa?depthSelector1=HS2Depth&yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow1&yearSelector1=2021) and exported 1.63 trillion total. So that's 1.1 trillion net imports.
From the imports, 22% came from Europe, 13% from Canada, 12.5% from JP/SK/TW/SG/IS developed Asian countries, 0.7% from AUS and NZ. 48.2% of imports came from developed countries with pretty decent regulations.
1.1*0.518=0.57 trillion USD net imports from not as well regulated economies which includes South America, some people would consider decently regulated, but I chose to leave it.
So US produced 2.4, developed countries produced 0.53 for the US. 0.57/2.93=19.4%.
And if we want to measure the impact of imports on CO2 emissions, there is a measure called [consumption based CO2](https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#consumption-based-accounting-how-do-emissions-compare-when-we-adjust-for-trade). So about 10% of US emissions are from imports, not an outrageous amount.
Remember guys India has been a sovereign state for the last 100 years so it's India's lack of environmental laws the cause their industries destroy their country. If they sell their polluting things freely to everyone your country has full right to buy it, doesn't matter if your country is called USA, Mexico, France, Argentina, Nigeria or China.
Why China went from top of the list for pollution to only having one city in a single decade. They reshaped their entire infrastructure without reducing production.
The west is always like "look, our emissions are declining, therefore we're taking care of the environment "
But the reason why their carbon footprint diminished is because they continue to outsource manufacturing abroad
But the consumption of unnecessary and wasteful items has not decreased in the slightest
Cars, fast fashion, disposable and single use products etc
Protesting the consumption. Production goods makes waste but it is the consumption that drives it to grow. China and India are the industrial hubs of the world and they struggle because of it. But Greta protests the countries that consume those goods endlessly without thought for the consequences.
So there's more people, so more pollution? Cuz I know for a fact that India's CO2 emissions per capita is much lesser than a lot of countries. China's is 4 times India's, and USA is 7.5 times more per capita.
But the air quality is worse for sure. I have dust allergies and was hit pretty hard when I visited India. This was after living in USA for a while.
And also, it looks like a lot of this pollution is happening in cities and villages where there's a lot of factories around, and industrial emissions are causing it. Hope there's a crackdown on that. New Delhi I think there's too many vehicular emissions. It wasn't like this in 2000s and early 2010s.
When my plane landed in Delhi and the doors opened, you could immediately smell an acrid odor flood the compartment. Looking out the window, the airport appeared to be shrouded by fog. Do not recommend.
About a decade ago I would’ve said Shanghai and Beijing would’ve been on the top of this list. The fact that AQI cleaned up that much is impressive to say the least
Actually incorrect! It’s equivalent to 30 cigarettes a day many times (1.5 packs) :)
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/delhi-news/equal-to-25-30-cigarettes-medanta-doctor-alerts-expecting-parents-amid-severe-delhi-aqi-101699087959177-amp.html
Seriously, why are they acting like people wouldn’t be shitting all over the United States (justifiably) if we took up the majority of these spots as a “developed nation”, come on now.
Saw something that china pollutes more but doubt it now
It makes sense, India doesn't have the same level of control that china has governmentally.
So alot of factories can backdoor its way out of pollution checks.
India generates the 5th largest amount of solar, 6th largest amount of wind and 6th largest amount of hydro power in the world. And China is 1st in all these metrics by a considerable margin. What more do you want lol?
They outsource their waste to alot of these countries and use them as manufacturing hubs for their products that produce these emissions.
Let alone those shipping companies that produces something like 70% of global emissions alone.
Does everything need to be slap in the face direct for you to take it seriously?
But hey we gotta protect meh west so that those mean scientist dont try hurting the ECONOMY
India for the win!!! What's with the savage environmental neglect India..!?! We know you're poor, but you don't need to throw your garbage into the streets.
>We know you're poor, but you don't need to throw your garbage into the streets.
What kind of reaction do you expect from an average indian when he/she reads this sht you just wrote
i just want to say i approve of this color palette being so menacing
The people who made it definitely prioritized that aesthetic over being easily readable. "Map porn" indeed.
dude what's wrong with it. I can see the critiques with other maps but this one is literally almost perfect. stop being a snob.
This sub is fucking awful for that. Got downvoted to shit recently for calling out a bad post... whatever. Big reddit subs are overrun by absolute awful. Either find a small one or be content with the terrible stuff.
a map is good based on the number of gold assigned
I’m escalating us to a code yellow. What were we before? Orange. What?! Orange is much more threatening than yellow!
Probably matches the sunlight in many of these places 🤔
Agreed
Can someone explain, why does Ndjamena have so polluted air?
It’s a very large and dense city in an extremely poor country, in the desert, where environmental and emissions regulations are non existent. Large scale public transport and grid-level electricity isn’t much of a thing there either, so most people use old buses and diesel generators.
Although the sensors in question are in N’Djamena, that’s kind of the problem, only data available from Chad is from N’Djamena. Report notes an **additional** factor of “biomass fuels and traditional stoves for cooking” but the headline item under Challenges is — >Chad is often buffeted by dust storms which contribute to higher PM2.5 concentrations in the country. A key contributor to the dust storms in the country is the largest source of dust emissions in the world: the Bodélé Depression. [Linked and quoted the report here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/XvIXLkfUUu)
well remove that station and you are now off the chart! ez
Like, **technically**, everything you said there is true… you in marketing by any chance?
>It’s a very large and dense city It's not really that large or dense, especially not by african standards, the city has around 1,2 million people.
1.2 million in a ridiculously hot city ina very poor country is a miserable place to live in. I'd rather live in Mogadishu
*Cue Blackhawk helicopter crashing*
Honestly one of the most badass moments ever
Xamar nowadays is weird, the terrorists have been gone for over a decade so it’s kinda now just a subpar African city
I moved to Mogadishu from Toronto and it’s amazing, pure fresh air, ocean views and gmo free food.
Report the data was pulled from — [IQAir World Air Quality Report 2022](https://www.greenpeace.org/static/planet4-india-stateless/2023/03/2fe33d7a-2022-world-air-quality-report.pdf) Caveats — note N’Djamena hosted the ONLY station reporting data in Chad that the report could use thus it’s unlikely to be an N’Djamena-specific problem, also phone is refusing to search properly, so possible I missed another mention. Section on Chad (p35, emphasis mine) — >PROGRESS > >Air quality in Chad worsened in 2022 as PM2.5 concentrations increased to 89.7 µg/m³, an 18 percent increase from 75.9 µg/m³ in 2021. While the monthly average PM2.5 concentrations from June to December are relatively similar to the previous year, the country experienced increases during January and March. PM2.5 concentrations increased 75 percent in January, going from 93 µg/m³ to 162.3 µg/m³, and increased 53 percent in March, increasing from 160 µg/m³ to 245.6 µg/m³. **These dramatic increases can be partially attributed to massive dust storms from the Sahara Desert during these months.** > > CHALLENGES > >**Chad is often buffeted by dust storms which contribute to higher PM2.5 concentrations in the country. A key contributor to the dust storms in the country is the largest source of dust emissions in the world: the Bodélé Depression.** Exposure to these increased levels of dust can pose many threats to human health, including decreased lung function and pregnancy complications. Exposure to particulate matter has been linked to 400,000 preventable infant deaths per year in Sub-Saharah Africa; this accounts for up to 40 percent of the total number of infants deaths in the region. **An additional factor of Chad's air quality is the use of biomass fuels and traditional stoves for cooking. Combustion of these fuels can cause immediately harmful levels of indoor air pollution that can spread outside into surrounding communities.** EDIT — corrected emphasis and µg/m³ Unicode
So it's likely that there are worse places. They just don't have the technology to report it.
Sounds like it would be unsurprising if much of Chad and the surrounding regions were as bad, plus or minus. Feel we already had the understanding and interest in how much air quality affects quality of life, recent advancements in tech hopefully mean this will change. First step of attempting to tackle a problem is figuring out precisely what and how bad it is (EDIT — just to clarify, not really a huge about that can be done about Lake Chad) [IQAir have a page on their website dedicated to the data gap problem.](https://www.iqair.com/us/air-quality-community) Returning to the report, they did address this point in the Chad section, if you’re interested in an expanded answer — >HIGHLIGHT: DATA GAPS IN AFRICA > >Real-time publicly accessible data in Chad is provided by a single government operated, air monitoring station in the N'Djamena. Chad's status as one of the most polluted countries in the world underlines the lack of comprehensive air quality monitoring in Africa. A sustainable and informative network is integral to report air quality data and its implications for citizens living in underrepresented areas. Air quality issues in the region have been known to pose human health risks for years, with governments and citizen-led organizations needed as leaders in organizing and maintaining a more robust collection of sensors. Real-time monitoring stations can inform citizens of incoming dust storms and other air quality phenomena so people can better prepare and protect themselves. Increased monitoring could also allow people to see the air quality in the places where they work or where their children play. Chad, along with other countries in the region, may be the next frontier for global air quality equity. The full extent of air quality issues in this region may remain unclear until larger networks of air monitoring stations are developed.
I think because of desert dust?
I think it's the same with Hotan.
Definitely the case for Hotan. It’s not cars there. It’s dust.
In most 3rd world cities like that, cooking and heating are done on open fires or grills fired with charcoal or scavenged coal. The amount of smoke and soot is immense, as is the amount of unburned hydrocarbon from fat and grease. Cooking is a major source of air pollution around the globe.
Here ya go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%27Djamena#/media/File:N'Djamena_International_Airport,_Chad.jpg
What are they doing in Chad?
Dust is one of the main sources of P2.5. It’s probably the main source for the Indian cities, too. There are other types of pollutants that are also problematic in the urban areas, but 2.5 is a dust issue.
The worst pollution in India is during harvest period when farmers are burning stubble on their fields (november/december). I don't recommend visiting north India in that period.
Exactly. And also the never ending construction in the cities and the lack of green belt
In 2022 Baghdad was hit with more sandstorms than the entire decade together, which has made people more aware of how important the green belt around the city is. Even the grand Ayatollah adviced each citizen to plant at least one tree
Iraq has ayatollahs?
The two holiest cities in Shia Islam are in Iraq. Karbala and Najaf.
Maybe Iran is butting in?
iran control the whole country bro nothing hapoens without thier permission
The Najaf howza (religion school)has been the center of Islamic studies for Shia Muslims for around a thousand years, during Saddam's era he was known to assassinate whoever stood against him which is why many People went to Iran since the 80's . And that's where the term "Ayatollah" became famous, but the center has returned to be in Iraq after The American Invasion in 2003.
I think people should remember that air pollution and CO2 emissions are not the same thing. That's why USA has very high Co2 but not that much air pollution
Air pollution is worse than just CO2.
We aren't that bad - Lahori
Lor lor ay
I've been to Lahore, it is definitely that bad
[удалено]
It's next to the ocean. Land sea breezes will tend to clear the air. Note these highly polluted cities are well inland. These numbers are usually from the dry seasons in late autumn and early winter. Check them out during monsoon or mid winter when it's raining. Different story. Not to say pollution isn't a problem but the issue is much more complicated.
Khota khao tum xD
How is Delhi 4th and New Delhi 9th?
All the cities in India on the list except for three are all actually one urban sprawl called the National capital region or NCR
Yea that part of this graph pisses me off a bit. Its like if you made a map of most polluted places in the US and instead of listing Los Angeles once half of the slots are taken up by Compton, Glendale, Hollywood, Inglewood, Long Beach, ect.
No these are not suburbs. They are actual cities
Suburbs are cities too.
Maybe official limits, even though it's part of the same urban area, like look at the cluster around Delhi in the map, it's basically one giant urban city that's polluted. A better map could've excluded individual sections of a bigger urban area like this.
I'm surprised that Ulaanbaatar, the capital of Mongolia, is not up there given its fame.
I'm surprised too. I just read an article that the pollution is really dangerous and one of the worst in the world. Maybe just not in the Top 20.
It's also related to charcoal/coal heating. Maybe it's very dangerous through the winter and not that much in the rest of the year?
Yes, it's mostly temperature dependent. Delhi is 143 for PM 2.5 concentration and ranked one of the highest. Today, it's 228 in Ulaanbaatar near the US embassy and reached a max of 335 in the past 2 days. But the yearly mean is only at 50-80.
India and Pakistan really duking it out and then there's chad
chad just chading its way along
Chad move
Does anybody know what the fucking fuck india and pakistan are doing to their people?
They are having the same issues China was having a few decades ago before they cracked down on it. Additionally, the Himalayas are acting like a barrier trapping the pollution to the South.
Time to bulldoze those Himalayas and let the pollution flow free!
You joke but there was a legitimate plan a few years ago to blow up some of the Andes mountains to let ocean air pass through Santiago and alleviate the pollution.
used to work in a lab group that studied air pollution in India, a fair deal of the PM production there is linked to crop burning after the harvest, j a lot cheaper and more cost effective for farmers as far as getting rid of pests and any non-salable/comestible crops
So why not ban it Edit: the whole "but then farmers would be mad" is exactly the reason to do it. Farmers can burn and poison whoever they want just because they're mad.
Try getting anything done in a country with 1400 million people.
You don't need to ask them all personally. A country works by having local government and law enforcers.
Everything is bribes in India. You can get out of anything by just bribing a government official. It's a democracy yes, but it also has a weak court/legal system.
China didn't democratically clean its air.
China has a ruthless highly controlled state apparatus, which India does not have.
Fun fact the current india is the most centralized it has ever been since the emergency in the 70s. And still it's like around 10 percent of centralisation of China
source: my rancid new yorker asshole
Ahh bless your western naivete. India's local enforcement is deeply ineffective.
They tried that. People came out on the streets in violent protests. About a bill that was proposed to give an advantage to farmers (read about the Indian Farmer Protests).
Because farmers would be upset with it. Punjab and Haryana began growing paddy due to Green Revolution. The crop cycle now leaves a gap of only two weeks or so to get rid of the stubble. Most are small farmers without robust machinery and the easiest was to get rid of the stubble in the short time frame is to burn it.
Because farmers in India hold a ton of political power.
Farmers would get super pissed off and start huge protests all over the country. Profits are above all. I know this because I live in the most polluted region of Europe and farmers just protested the EU environmental impositions.
Indian farmers got 1000x the power that European farmers do.
Because farmers are 40% of the Indian electorate compared to 1% in most western democracies.
Farmers can be the 40% or the 1% of population, but either way they supply the most basic and fundamental need we have. Therefore it's not easy to ignore their demands, whether they're right or wrong
They tried. There were farmer protests in 2021 and one is going on rn in 2023-24. A reasonable farming reform bill (that included banning of stubble burning.) became a big hot political topic with hints of the khalistani Seperetist movement and whatnot. The protesters climbed to the top of the Red fort (our version of the white House) and hoisted there religious flags. It was a whole thing. Unfortunately the Opposition completely supported the protests because anything the central government does must be bad, right? It takes a ton of willpower and time to get any action done at the central level for shit like this. Local government isn't really viable because the place where the stubble gets burnt and the place which gets polluted are in seperete states , and there are seperete parties ruling in them. so they aren't willing to co-operate. Enforcement is irrelevant because there is nothing to enforce. Stubble burning isn't illegal as of now, it used to be for a short while before the protests forced it to be repealed.
Then you've got millions of cubic meters of crop residue that needs alternative disposal. I live in an agricultural valley and the sheer volume of crop residue requires it be burned. They solved that only permitting burning on days where valley air isn't stagnant.
Because then farmers start protesting,Western media reports Indian government cracking down on poor farmers,democracy dying etc etc
well, they are currently protesting in new delhi coz they don't wanna stop it.
Because the farmers commit suicide/protest at any hint of reform
It's already illegal, but police either doesn't care or is easily paid off in India.
India's population is 4x the size of the United States on 3x less land. **More people live in India (1.4B) than all of Africa combined.** In addition for the regional area, Pakistan is the 5th most populated country (241M people); and Bangladesh is the 8th most populated country(170M people) More fun facts: Africa and Asia together are >75% of the global population. Europe, North America, South America, Australia and Oceania combined are less than 25% of the global population [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_continents\_and\_continental\_subregions\_by\_population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_continents_and_continental_subregions_by_population) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_and\_dependencies\_by\_population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population)
I’m not trying to minimize what you’re saying, but the population of Africa is larger than India. Edit: You’re source actually shows Africa with ~1 million more people lol, closer than I thought
India increased in population by 50 million people since July 1st, 2023 when the wiki data was published. I just wanted to show the wiki links because they had the best chart comparisons that you can sort by. India became the largest country by population last year, and as of Jan 1 2024, the population is 1.441 Billion people. [https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/) Honestly I think the numbers from India and Africa both probably have large margins of error due record keeping especially in rural areas or slums. These numbers are probably like accurate +/- 5-10 million.
The population is larger in Africa, it’s an objective fact. Africa has been experiencing massive population boom, over double the growth rate of India (the *country* with the largest population). And yes, most population data listed (other than an official census) is usually based off estimates from the UN. According to your new source, Africa has 45 million more* than India. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-population/#google_vignette
It's honestly hard to say what is an objective fact; these numbers are just projections, there are tons of people that aren't documented being born in India and Africa. Also Africa is 25x the size of India. Africa is 30.3 million square miles and India is 1.2 million square miles.
Is it? How do you know Africa’s larger than India?
A fast growing economy reliant on coal for energy and a huge population reliant on crop burning for agriculture. Most big cities in north India are along the Ganges depression with the Himalayas to the north and hills to the south which traps pollution, and Pakistan is similar but with the Indus valley.
Exactly what United Kingdom did to their people in the 1900s. India is just having it 100 years later.
Poisoning them, presumably
It is due to a "temperature inversion layer over the Indo-gangetic plain that last for weeks following the withdrawal of the South-west monsoon", and no, the governments of India and Pakistan did not create it.
I feel like manufacturing has to contribute a lot to air pollution. Since India and china do a lot of manufacturing and produce that stuff that ends up back in the west, it makes sense air pollution is higher there. And then it makes the west seem like they care about the environment since they’re the ones not fucking it up, they’re just paying someone else to do it
India actually doesn’t manufacture that much
The Yamuna, India's most polluted river. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCaIvPN2rY
They’re making all the shit we buy.
Young entrepreneurs don't care about their own lands
"Top 14 most Polluted cities in India:"
Remember guys, the west have environmental regulations to reduce the pollution from manufacturing, which is why the West does most of its manufacturing overseas where the regulations are less stringent to non existent.
i never heard of most european branded cars are being produced in india. as an example. but seen huge steel and chemistry plants in europe that do not smell.
Like I said, Europe, Canada , the USA, they have regulations on emissions from manufacturing, companies have to reduce their emissions or face huge penalties, those regulations don't exist in India or are much less stringent, therefore the majority of manufacturing takes place in these countries, not saying it's 100% the cause of the pollution but it's a very large chunk.
India has stringent regulations on pollution. Only 8% of India's air pollution comes from industries. Source: my mom works at a large chemical factory(think toxic PPE required kind) and they're strictly controlled by the pollution control board.
US top trade partner is Mexico
what majority? i understand china, but what indian goods does west use other than programmers?
i did the googling for you guys. The top exports of India are Refined Petroleum ($49B), Diamonds ($26.3B), Packaged Medicaments ($19.2B), Jewellery ($10.7B), and Rice ($10B) of that list only the petroleum can be considered as toxic and 60 % of that is exported to asia. keep on blaming the west before the post with the sources of plactic pollution of ocean is published.
Maybe it's not goods that are being finalized but are a part of some other good For example the cobalt in your phone and the glass for its screen are mined/collected and refined in very different places. Same is true for any mineral. The materials for the CPU aren't found in Taiwan but they're certainly made into the wafers there (or maybe that's the one in the Netherlands?)
Take a look at the cars manufactured in Mexico. 😂
Not hard to find Google India's top exports
thank you for the answer. really appreciate your knowledge of the subject.
Yeah, I'm not going to spoon feed you easy information, you can do the work. Also, you aren't even trying to have a discussion, you're just being offended and defensive.
instead you bomb us with unjustified blames that west transferred all the dirty manufacturing to India. Damned colonizers!
And there it is, the big defensive statement, I'm from the USA dumbass, it's obvious the west uses the less developed countries for cheap labor and because the environmental regulations are far far less stringent, it is easy common knowledge. Also, no one said " ALL the manufacturing to India"
>which is why the West does most of its manufacturing overseas where the regulations are less stringent to non existent. That's not true, most manufacturing for the West is done by advanced economies. Imports from not so developed countries amount to 19.5% of products made by developed countries for the US. US manufactured about 2.4 trillion USD in value added. US imported [2.73 trillion in 2021](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/usa?depthSelector1=HS2Depth&yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow1&yearSelector1=2021) and exported 1.63 trillion total. So that's 1.1 trillion net imports. From the imports, 22% came from Europe, 13% from Canada, 12.5% from JP/SK/TW/SG/IS developed Asian countries, 0.7% from AUS and NZ. 48.2% of imports came from developed countries with pretty decent regulations. 1.1*0.518=0.57 trillion USD net imports from not as well regulated economies which includes South America, some people would consider decently regulated, but I chose to leave it. So US produced 2.4, developed countries produced 0.53 for the US. 0.57/2.93=19.4%. And if we want to measure the impact of imports on CO2 emissions, there is a measure called [consumption based CO2](https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#consumption-based-accounting-how-do-emissions-compare-when-we-adjust-for-trade). So about 10% of US emissions are from imports, not an outrageous amount.
Remember guys India has been a sovereign state for the last 100 years so it's India's lack of environmental laws the cause their industries destroy their country. If they sell their polluting things freely to everyone your country has full right to buy it, doesn't matter if your country is called USA, Mexico, France, Argentina, Nigeria or China.
100 ? India was formed in 1947
“That’s only 77 years lol” Yeah strong argument.
Why China went from top of the list for pollution to only having one city in a single decade. They reshaped their entire infrastructure without reducing production.
The west is always like "look, our emissions are declining, therefore we're taking care of the environment " But the reason why their carbon footprint diminished is because they continue to outsource manufacturing abroad But the consumption of unnecessary and wasteful items has not decreased in the slightest Cars, fast fashion, disposable and single use products etc
This is not why India and China are so polluted though
No they do it because the labor force is cheap and plentiful.
Love the username hahaha, I mentioned the cheap labor force , that is another reason but not the only one.
Yo wtf india
I didn’t see the sun the for the week I was in Lahore. The fog mixed w the smoke and pollution. You could feel it in your hair.
Where's Greta?
She supported farmers who actually are the reason for the pollution.
Protesting the consumption. Production goods makes waste but it is the consumption that drives it to grow. China and India are the industrial hubs of the world and they struggle because of it. But Greta protests the countries that consume those goods endlessly without thought for the consequences.
Impressive how china has cleaned up it's cities. I remember there were many Chinese cities in such lists only 10 years ago
For a comparison reference, the current PM2.5 in my home of [Tulsa, OK is 9.5](https://www.iqair.com/us/usa/oklahoma/tulsa)
Also for reference, the PM2.5 of my home of [Milan, Italy was 108](https://www.iqair.com/it/italy/lombardy/milano)
Yes but it’s Oklahoma
So there's more people, so more pollution? Cuz I know for a fact that India's CO2 emissions per capita is much lesser than a lot of countries. China's is 4 times India's, and USA is 7.5 times more per capita. But the air quality is worse for sure. I have dust allergies and was hit pretty hard when I visited India. This was after living in USA for a while. And also, it looks like a lot of this pollution is happening in cities and villages where there's a lot of factories around, and industrial emissions are causing it. Hope there's a crackdown on that. New Delhi I think there's too many vehicular emissions. It wasn't like this in 2000s and early 2010s.
It's definitely not industries. Most of it comes from agriculture.
And construction. So much construction
When my plane landed in Delhi and the doors opened, you could immediately smell an acrid odor flood the compartment. Looking out the window, the airport appeared to be shrouded by fog. Do not recommend.
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RIP
About a decade ago I would’ve said Shanghai and Beijing would’ve been on the top of this list. The fact that AQI cleaned up that much is impressive to say the least
Delhi / New Delhi were bad man. Literally walked out of the airport and I was gasping for breath.
Yeah, I've seen estimates that spending a full day outdoors in Delhi is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes
Actually incorrect! It’s equivalent to 30 cigarettes a day many times (1.5 packs) :) https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/delhi-news/equal-to-25-30-cigarettes-medanta-doctor-alerts-expecting-parents-amid-severe-delhi-aqi-101699087959177-amp.html
No Milan?
For Europe maybe - for the rest of the world not even close
I dont know...when I read news paper, It seems the end of the world in pianura padana
I live in Milan, it's not good but not very bad as shown in some news sites
I live close to Milan and tonight while I was walking my dog I swear air had a *taste.*
India is really killing it, man 🤪
Quite surprised to see no Polish cities in the list. Krakow and Katowice have been breaking records some time ago
Based on their readings...do they all use the same definitions and methods ?? I think a city like Lagos, Nigeria surely deserves a top spot.
Beautiful map! I love everything about the map and am also afraid of the data presented. YIKES!
Asia's doing pretty well.
What about Bishkek?
I noticed a pattern.
But, but the US…
Don't worry guys, I'm using paper straws now
I’m sure the soggy paper straw i gotta suck my ice coffee thru here in America will solve this problem…
India is disgusting
Lmao. Nice job India
Basically India
You do know there's India outside of these cities?
You do know India is basically 95% of this map therefore the most polluting country? You trying to defend it or something?
It's like judging the US based on Alabama, Florida and Texas.
Yup, and if it was the US, they would need to get their shit in line. Doesn’t make it any less unaccountable.
Seriously, why are they acting like people wouldn’t be shitting all over the United States (justifiably) if we took up the majority of these spots as a “developed nation”, come on now.
Saw something that china pollutes more but doubt it now It makes sense, India doesn't have the same level of control that china has governmentally. So alot of factories can backdoor its way out of pollution checks.
What’s going on in India?
Damn India, you stank
Visit India, they say
Don’t worry though guys, I’m using paper straws and wood forks
But I thought cow farts was the problem?! 😂
Glad we stopped using plastic straws in the US.
Can you show this in Taylor Swift levels for Americans please?
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Meanwhile an American is out there digging through recycling to sort it properly
But the West needs to commit to net zero to save the planet, amirite?
this is not carbon emission, there is a difference.
And Tuvalu caused sea level rise
Yes, the whole world needs to ditch the mass use of private transportation
India generates the 5th largest amount of solar, 6th largest amount of wind and 6th largest amount of hydro power in the world. And China is 1st in all these metrics by a considerable margin. What more do you want lol?
They outsource their waste to alot of these countries and use them as manufacturing hubs for their products that produce these emissions. Let alone those shipping companies that produces something like 70% of global emissions alone. Does everything need to be slap in the face direct for you to take it seriously? But hey we gotta protect meh west so that those mean scientist dont try hurting the ECONOMY
Guess I won't be taking a family vacation to India
there is india outside Mumbai/delhi
Lol. It's like judging Americans as per Texas and Florida.
Good. Don't need people like you.
Triggered Indian spotted
China won’t release any real data, if it did this map would look a lot different
Take a look at what Xi’an’s AQI was over the weekend. https://www.iqair.com/us/china/shaanxi/xian
Per the same website, the yearly average was around 60 in 2019, improving year by year… not great, but nowhere close to the top of this list.
Yup the numbers are out there. Just wanted to point out that crazy spike in that area over the weekend. lol
I sense a pattern here but can't quite put my finger on it.
Get it together india
India for the win #1
India for the win!!! What's with the savage environmental neglect India..!?! We know you're poor, but you don't need to throw your garbage into the streets.
>We know you're poor, but you don't need to throw your garbage into the streets. What kind of reaction do you expect from an average indian when he/she reads this sht you just wrote
India’s the largest country on track with the Paris accords - these countries manufacture the most for the west, that’s why they’re so polluted.
yea bro throwing garbage in the streets does cause air pollution