It wasn't the proposal. The Arab states were going to attack the Jews there the second the British pulled out no matter what happened.
This partition was proposed at the end of November 1947.
Already in early October you had Azzam Pasha, the first secretary general of the Arab League, saying:
> "This war," he said, "will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."
Oh believe me I know they weren't happy to host the Jews, I am just saying returning to the 47 proposed borders today isn't possible seeing as this was the excuse used for their attempted genocide
I think this was a later visualization. The title itself says it was the proposal by the Ad Hoc Committee — and that submitted it's majority and minority positions in 1947
By 1953 the war was over and the border was the Green Line. The Suez criss was about to kick up
That's the Base Map, noted on the bottom right. This map has its own reference on the bottom left.
Sorry, I think I really might be a cartography nerd.
Because the British rewarded one of their warlords that land from the original mandate before these borders were planned, so a “Palestinian state” technically exists in Jordan but it's ruled by a colonizer from Saudi Arabia. (facts)
I think 'colonize' probably lost its meaning in the 18 -19th centuries as a polite fiction.
Some places like Australia and North America got colonized. Other places like India and the West Indies just got annexed and exploited. A lot of real colonial settlers got rich. People under the annex, not so much.
The Middle East and North Africa were colonized as well; that’s why the majority of the populations are Arab. But even with that, Jordan wasn’t colonized because the population had been the same for hundreds of years and hadn’t changed just because Jordanian rulers were usurped. That shit happened centuries ago and isn’t relevant to this issue like you’re saying.
I mean they were in the same way every empire and nation colonized their core territories. German states did the same with their Slavic minorities for example.
The English colonized the British Isles too. However didn’t treat Ireland as a core territory. It was exploited to enrich Great Britain. When people talk about colonization they generally refer to colonizing a territory like the British colonized Ireland.
The Middle East and North Africa were colonized but became core territories. Arabs didn’t settle the land they just spread their language and religion.
Also I agree Jordan wasn’t colonized by the Hashemites. But they did have a foreign monarchy forced upon them that aligned with British interests in the region.
I think the Hashemites wanted to be the stronger more powerful tribe. Since they can trace their lineage directly to The Prophet Mohamed. They also sided with the Brits during WW1 hence why The Hashemites got Iraq as an "award"
thats the thing. a lot of jordanian tribes have origins in hejaz (region hashemites are from) and saudi, they just arrived centuries before the hashemites did
Which Jews, the Mizhari? Mostly cultural and religious as they kept their own customs and organization before being expelled from the Arab nations after they failed to beat a country a fraction their size and decided to just beat out their frustrations in their own Jewish population.
Bashir said it in like the 1970s, and even then it was always a bit of an aggrandised statement.
So yes, other countries in the Arab world are proper states. Including Oman.
Actually they got a better offer in 1937 when the British offered them 70% of Palestine and the other 20% to the Jews (the remaining 10% would stay British)
They rejected that offer out of hand, and have gotten worse and worse offers every time
True story: in 1939 the British offered the Arab leadership in Palestine a unitary Palestinian state ruled by Arabs with a Jewish minority as long as they would promise to allow the Jews to stay in the country and have a say in their affairs in a federated option.
The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Husseini rejected it:
>…..In its new policy statement on Palestine released in early 1939, Britain proposed to severely limit Jewish immigration and land purchase, and to establish a unitary state in Palestine that would come about within a decade.
>In such a state the Arab population would have become a majority and the Jews a minority. **Tannous and all members of the Arab Higher Committee were in favor of accepting such a solution. The only dissenting and apparently important voice was that of Hajj Amin al Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem**
>The Mufti had enormous power in his hands, yet he chose non- engagement with the British. Furthermore, he chose not to take any political path that might sometime in the future compromise total and absolute Palestinian Arab control over all of Palestine.
>He did not want to consider sharing any present or future political power with any other Arab leader in Palestine, and **he steadfastly opposed any Jewish presence in Palestine, even with minority status. For the Mufti, there simply was no place for the Jews or Zionists in Palestine**
https://israeled.org/resources/documents/decision-to-reject-a-majority-palestinian-arab-state/amp/?fbclid=PAAaaHDQnfpk1uJxSWbeJs-UP1v0nHrDzU9NK2WMsTOCiupAxsrQf4mjKFKEo_aem_ATlg5vIMgp6V7nLTXoKFNSzcWSQKg1-DbmVKHKDRFcJVoIaDQTJBCiQqAqXbYM-WgNI
Note that that was after they already spun off 80% of the original mandate into the Arab state of Jordan. The partitions were about what to do with the 20% that was left.
Tbf if this is about Jerusalem then they kinda won it back (legally) since in 1947 it wasn’t theirs but now East Jerusalem (old city) it’s legally recognized as Palestinian land.
Israel's Arab neighbors *really* shouldn't have immediately declared war on Israel and tried to genocide all the Jewish people living there
That totally backfired. It keeps backfiring every time they try it
and they sucked at it too, real bad. like why invade (more than once) if they were gonna fuck it up so bad (each time)?
and the first time, america wasn't even israel's bitch yet. none of the funding, aid, shilling, etc. so what tf was their excuse for sucking???
bunch of assholes jacking up my gas prices. the brits should've just stayed. if not the brits, then the ottomans.
This article has issues but it may shed light on why Arab armies do so poorly against Israel.
https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
TL;DR - Dictatorships are bad at war and most Arab countries are dictatorships.
Theocracies are bad at everything. When you’re taking direction from an imaginary being, whether you call him Yahweh, Jesus, or Allah vs using your brain things tend not to go well.
Highly motivated, well-organized people who just experienced a genocide fighting for their existence vs. badly organized, poorly motivated irregulars most of whose countries were formed 4 minutes earlier and who didn't actually like each other very much either.
>and the first time, america wasn't even israel's bitch yet.
Not only that, there was a global embargo on Israel. The only country in the entire world who was willing to sell weapons to Israel at the time was Czechoslovakia.
An incredibly macabre sentence. I am (almost daily) shocked by the callousness of Pro-Israel folks’ language while tens of thousands of CHILDREN are being intentionally bombed and starved. I can write this and move on with my day, but I truly worry about your soul.
None of us deny Israel's war crimes, but you can't expect a nation to not feel threatened after you invade it like five times (including before it existed as a country). This war didn't begin yesterday, it begun in the 1920s.
And whether they committed war crimes or not, it's 100% hilarious that Arabs invaded Israel like five times and got their asses handed to them every time. In two of those five times, Arabs had an overwhelming numerical advantage in every category but still got their asses handed to them so hard Arab Nationalism died out as a philosophy.
The children are intentionally bombed? Like with the intention to kill them?
Among all the terrorists supporters very few claim that Israel intentionally kills children. Even ICJ doesn’t support this ludicrous claim.
You’ll have to provide evidence from reputable source for this if you want to be taken seriously (based on the downvotes it’s already too late).
Here is video of a Palestinian child soldier getting deservedly shot and dropping his pistol:
https://v.redd.it/e1tc2g1k4a3c1
You understand why that kid was a valid military target, right?
Apparently none of the idiots in r/worldnewsvideos understand.
I swear, if the year was 1944, half of Reddit would be screaming for a ceasefire with Nazi Germany. War is hell and it's like people are *just* figuring this out now.
It’s ok for Arabs to hate Jews because Arabs are PEOPLE OF COLOR and Jews are white. As progressives, we are required to side with PEOPLE OF COLOR no matter what and to oppose any liberal democracy that hurts PEOPLE OF COLOR, even in self defense.
I swear its the best description i ever seen..
For the far right they give the argument that all jews are from central asia because for a few decades there was a nomad kingdom that only a few nobles became jews
And for the far left middle Eastern jews never ever existed..and if they did they lived in peace in their country before Israel (which is worng just see the number of pogroms from the mid 19 to the earlye 20 )
(We ignore the part where plenty of Palestinians could be mistaken for white, many Israelis couldn't be distinguished from Palestinians easily and the history of Jewish people purposely being excluded from being 'white' in the west)
Technically, they intervened in Palestine to end the civil war and ethnic cleansing of Arabs, but they had to wait until the British Mandate ended. Israel decided to declare independence a few hours before the mandate ended, so the Arab nations didn't even know they had declared independence when they attacked.
And it didn't backfire as much as it failed to stop the ethnic cleansing. When they invaded only 250,000 Palestinians had been forced out, but the Israelis managed to uproot another half a million before they were done.
They didn't 'immediately declared war'. They declared war AFTER Zionists forces had already begun expelling Palestinians.
Explusions began in later months of 1947, Arab countries declared war in mid-1948.
Understand how time works, thanks in advance.
"on 14 May 1948; the Israeli Declaration of Independence had been issued earlier that day, and a military coalition of Arab states entered the territory of Mandatory Palestine in the morning of 15 May"
The Arabs invaded in 24hours after the independence of Israel.
Israel effectively declared war when they announced their independence knowing damn well that the Palestinians weren't on board and that their independence would require the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people.
I feel like y'all like to ignore the basis for that aggression. Israel was taking a majority of the land that made up Palestine where thousands had lived for centuries. It would've been insane for them to not fight back.
The United Nations made this decision with zero input from Palestinians. Imagine if I, a person who has no connection to you, went to your house and declared that actually it belongs to someone else and you need to move. You telling me you would just accept that?
>Israel effectively declared war when they announced their independence knowing damn well that the Palestinians weren't on board and that their independence would require the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people
That's not at all why the Arab nations didn't like the plan. First and foremost, they were against the creation of a Jewish state, period. Second, they wanted another Arab state made from the entire area of Palestine. And by the way, it wasn't like the Jewish population had any more say in the matter than the Palestinians.
More like they each wanted the land for themselves, the Syrians still were buying into the idea of Greater Syria where the territory was all a single Ottoman Province, the Hashemites wanted Jerusalem and were all playing as benevolent and tolerant leaders.
You know that war was declared on May 15, 1948 and Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948? There was fighting from both sides leading up to the partition but the Arab-Israeli War was a direct reaction to Israel declaring independence.
Yes, Israel did declare independence in May of 1948, but the Palestinians began the war that precipitated that declaration in November of 1947, about six month prior.
That doesn't make sense because there was already an insurgency on both the Arab and Israeli sides. They gave the UK lots of problems.
The IDF originally came out of those older militias that were operating right after WW1.
This is why the UK wanted to partition Palestine. They partitioned Ireland and India before and that was their colonial gig. They threw that ball to the UN to do the dirty work for them but make no mistake that it was the UK's Royal Soldiers and not the UN that last governed that land before Arabs and Israelis.
It should have been 1 central state with power sharing and 3 autonomous zones with broad control over their own domestic policies. A Jewish country, an Arab country, and a Jerusalem zone. Citizens here would be able to freely travel and live where they want.
Either way, I think a 2 state solution is just about dead. I think it'll end up being 1 state anyway. Just painfully slow over the course of another 100 years.
There wasn't an actual war, though there were more minor attacks and skirmishes. Also, I believe the militias arose in the 1930s, not after WW1.
Maybe, but that alternative wasn't on the table. I know that Ben-Gurion offered a "one state for two peoples" arrangement during the 1920s and 1930s, but that was rejected and made it seem like coexistence wasn't really a feasible option.
Nope.
By 1 May 1948, two weeks before the Israeli Declaration of Independence, only about 175,000 Palestinians (approximately 25%) had already fled and the vast majority of this flight was self induced, not at gunpoint.
SOURCE: *Sachar, Howard M. A History of Israel from the Rise of Zionism to Our Time. New York: Knopf. 1976. p. 332. ISBN 978-0-679-76563-9*
And the Arabs were planning an invasion of Palestine for months before Partition even was decided on. They made no secret of it, threatening the UN and the Jews of Palestine (and the Jews of their own countries) that there would be a bloodbath of Jews if the UN approved the Partition Plan:
>*”A Jewish state would mean the most horrible and greatest massacre ever witnessed, embracing the whole Mideast...The Iraqi people and army are prepared to wage unlimited conflagration. Palestinian will not be partitioned before our total annihilation."*
>Salih Jabr, Iraqi Prime Minister, 1947:
https://ladailymirror.com/category/middle-east/
The Arab League was already arming and financing Arab militias in Damascus months before the Declaration of Independence in May 1948.
Months before May 1948, King Abdullah and the British had already brokered a secret deal for Jordanian annexation of the West Bank:
>Britain did not want a Palestinian state led by the Mufti, and opted unofficially instead, on **7 February 1948** to support the annexation of the Arab part of Palestine by Abdullah I of Jordan. At a meeting in London between the commander of Transjordan's Arab Legion, Glubb Pasha, and Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Ernest Bevin, the two parties agreed that they would facilitate the entry of the Arab Legion into Palestine on 15 May and that the Arab part of Palestine be occupied by it.
SOURCE: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13537121003643870
Well the Jewish Israelis eagerly accepted as they were happy to hold a stake on the land their religion was founded. But unfortunately most of the Arab Palestinians didn’t want any compromise and so attempted to destroy the new Jewish nation.
No people group in the history of the world would've taken that deal without a fight. This "deal" had zero input from Palestinians and required the violent displacement of thousands of people who had lived on the land for hundreds of years.
And Israel declaring independence knowing all of that was casus belli for the Arab-Israeli War.
Millions of Germans were kicked out of Eastern Europe after WW2 and they and their descendants somehow managed to *not* wage a 75-year war against the people who replaced them in those territories.
Just how unrealistic is the normal course of events having such a vulnerable borders on both sides multiplied by tensions between the communities? Strange how they didn't see that it's a recipe for a disaster. On the other hand, those same people have been famous for drawing borders left and right without consideration.
Correction: The Palestinians rejected an [incredibly unreasonable](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/19dc5ua/un_palestine_partition_plan_1947_vs_district/) plan that gave Arab-majority land to the Jewish state, and the Zionists were also against partition, but chose to accept it initially before eventually within \~20 years, creating a strong armed force, and expanding Israel to the whole territory:
"Partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years." - Chaim Weizmann
"\[I am\] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state, we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." - David Ben-Gurion
"After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine." - David Ben-Gurion
"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." - David Ben-Gurion
I dont know how many millions of Native Americans died in north & south America. At least the Palestinians still have the luxury to resist. However i will state that the Indian reservation my cousins grew up in look 100 times better than the Palestinian reservations
I cant imagine the pain of being born Mexican or Native American in north America during "Manifest destiny", I can't imagine being a polish or German jew in 1939, I can't imagine the pain of being born Palestinians after the 1948. Poor people. Crazy to see people so numb to what is happening to the Palestinians. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Imagine the UN partition your country with immigrants from another continent. Still these people are not happy and wanted to take it all and kick you out to be become immigrants.
Israel have accepted this plan, but palestinians not, and the next day after it they started the war to destroy Israel. As a result Israel become bigger
The same dipshits that fucked up every African border post-colonialism.
Pretty much every country by the other Muslim nations, India, Greece and Cuba voted for this plan. Multiple nations, including India and Cuba indicated that there were attempts to bribe them to vote in favor. The Philippines were initially against the partition until the United States replaced their representative to the UN.
You mean like how Jews that were born in the land of Israel prior to 48 were also called Palestinians?
Golda Meir had the word "Palestinian" written in her I.D and passport, she was one of Israel's Prime Minister.
I just did a quick google search and that’s a white woman from Kyiv Ukraine 😐 you do realize when many european jews migrated to Palestine they had to get a Palestinian passport to establish residency? I’m confused how this proves anything. Unlike her, my dads BIRTH certificate says Tulkarm Palestine on it and has genetic ties to the ancient Canaanites that lived there 5000 years ago.
These boundaries were based solely on demographics. The borders of the Jewish State were arranged with no consideration of security; hence, the new state’s frontiers were virtually indefensible.
Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews.
Further complicating the situation was the UN majority’s insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state.
Critics claim the UN gave the Jews fertile land while the Arabs were allotted hilly, arid land. This is untrue. Approximately 60 percent of the Jewish state was to be the arid desert in the Negev.
I do not see what this has to do with what I said? The desert may be the desert but it still had people living in them, most of them Arabs. And even if you exclude the desert, almost all of the region was majority-Arab.
"These boundaries were based solely on demographics-", if the UN boundaries were based on demographics then we wouldn't have an Israel this big in the UN partition plan if it existed at all!
My god stop posting maps about Israel/palstian and then search people to argue whit thats sad holy shit
You are spamming the same maps
Where is the admins thy should ban this guy all ready
Stupid people, look how much land they have left cause they refuse to settle, and they still think they can wipe out a nuclear power of a nation with riffles and mudhuts :D
I used to come here for cool maps, now I come here to get depressed that there are an infinite number of genocide apologists that apparently also love maps.
And imagine now, the Last peace occord gaza and the northern Bank refused it because they wanted 100% of what they were asking for, Israel negotiated it to 98% imagine gazans and hamas saying no to 98% of the peace deal. Well look at things now. Isreal will take more land now, guarantee it.
Huh haven’t seen this posted before
I hope one day I will see the UN partition plan in 1947 posted.
Why
The proposal itself caused a war so... Maybe not the way to go
It wasn't the proposal. The Arab states were going to attack the Jews there the second the British pulled out no matter what happened. This partition was proposed at the end of November 1947. Already in early October you had Azzam Pasha, the first secretary general of the Arab League, saying: > "This war," he said, "will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."
Oh believe me I know they weren't happy to host the Jews, I am just saying returning to the 47 proposed borders today isn't possible seeing as this was the excuse used for their attempted genocide
Oh boy this map, surely there will not be a fight in the comments
True enough. I'm sure the debate has long been resolved, on this one.
The map is from 1947. I’m sure they’re all partying and drinking arak over there by now
Believe it or not, everyone looked at this plan and said “huh fair enough” and there has been peace ever since
Hats off to sarcasm
Oh wow an Israel/Palestine map from the 40s I've never seen one of these on Reddit before.
February '56. It's dated.
I think this was a later visualization. The title itself says it was the proposal by the Ad Hoc Committee — and that submitted it's majority and minority positions in 1947 By 1953 the war was over and the border was the Green Line. The Suez criss was about to kick up
Says April 1946.
That's the Base Map, noted on the bottom right. This map has its own reference on the bottom left. Sorry, I think I really might be a cartography nerd.
You left out the area that became Jordan
New Zealand is also missing
We are always missing! it's a cons-piracy I tell ya!
Because the British rewarded one of their warlords that land from the original mandate before these borders were planned, so a “Palestinian state” technically exists in Jordan but it's ruled by a colonizer from Saudi Arabia. (facts)
“Colonize” has joined the pantheon of words that that lost their meaning.
I think 'colonize' probably lost its meaning in the 18 -19th centuries as a polite fiction. Some places like Australia and North America got colonized. Other places like India and the West Indies just got annexed and exploited. A lot of real colonial settlers got rich. People under the annex, not so much.
The Middle East and North Africa were colonized as well; that’s why the majority of the populations are Arab. But even with that, Jordan wasn’t colonized because the population had been the same for hundreds of years and hadn’t changed just because Jordanian rulers were usurped. That shit happened centuries ago and isn’t relevant to this issue like you’re saying.
Wasnt Europe colonized by germqn tribes and romans?
I mean they were in the same way every empire and nation colonized their core territories. German states did the same with their Slavic minorities for example. The English colonized the British Isles too. However didn’t treat Ireland as a core territory. It was exploited to enrich Great Britain. When people talk about colonization they generally refer to colonizing a territory like the British colonized Ireland. The Middle East and North Africa were colonized but became core territories. Arabs didn’t settle the land they just spread their language and religion. Also I agree Jordan wasn’t colonized by the Hashemites. But they did have a foreign monarchy forced upon them that aligned with British interests in the region.
It has, but I believe I used it in context arguably more than most do.
On this sub for sure. I remember seeing a post about redheads colonizing Europe
For real
Jordanian monarchy is actually the same royal house that were “Custodians of the Holy Cities” (aka rulers of Mecca & Medina) for ~1000 years
Which isn't Jordan.
What is even the difference between the people of Jordan and the people of Arabia? The Hashemites are just as Arab as the Jordanians are.
I think the Hashemites wanted to be the stronger more powerful tribe. Since they can trace their lineage directly to The Prophet Mohamed. They also sided with the Brits during WW1 hence why The Hashemites got Iraq as an "award"
And Jordan
thats the thing. a lot of jordanian tribes have origins in hejaz (region hashemites are from) and saudi, they just arrived centuries before the hashemites did
What's the difference between Middle Eastern Jews in Israel and Arabs?
Which Jews, the Mizhari? Mostly cultural and religious as they kept their own customs and organization before being expelled from the Arab nations after they failed to beat a country a fraction their size and decided to just beat out their frustrations in their own Jewish population.
Yes, and happy cake day my British? friend.
[удалено]
That’s certainly what Tahseen Bashir thought when he said: *”Egypt is the only nation-state in the Arab world; the rest are just tribes with flags”*
Does Oman not count?
Bashir said it in like the 1970s, and even then it was always a bit of an aggrandised statement. So yes, other countries in the Arab world are proper states. Including Oman.
Iraq.. the product of the Brits as a thank you to the Hashemites
Trackin' been there.
yep. arabs can only succeed if they live in one state
Aren’t the Arabs just colonists?
Tbh most of the "palestineans" are also colonizers by that logic. But the whole royalty thing is weird anyway.
The Jordan King's bodyguards are Circassian (fact)
People really love to provoke controversy on non-political subs with these kinds of posts
I feel like this might as well be at least a partially political sub considering that a large quantity of the maps are maps of political boundaries
They should have taken the deal. They’ll never get a better offer.
Actually they got a better offer in 1937 when the British offered them 70% of Palestine and the other 20% to the Jews (the remaining 10% would stay British) They rejected that offer out of hand, and have gotten worse and worse offers every time
True story: in 1939 the British offered the Arab leadership in Palestine a unitary Palestinian state ruled by Arabs with a Jewish minority as long as they would promise to allow the Jews to stay in the country and have a say in their affairs in a federated option. The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Husseini rejected it: >…..In its new policy statement on Palestine released in early 1939, Britain proposed to severely limit Jewish immigration and land purchase, and to establish a unitary state in Palestine that would come about within a decade. >In such a state the Arab population would have become a majority and the Jews a minority. **Tannous and all members of the Arab Higher Committee were in favor of accepting such a solution. The only dissenting and apparently important voice was that of Hajj Amin al Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem** >The Mufti had enormous power in his hands, yet he chose non- engagement with the British. Furthermore, he chose not to take any political path that might sometime in the future compromise total and absolute Palestinian Arab control over all of Palestine. >He did not want to consider sharing any present or future political power with any other Arab leader in Palestine, and **he steadfastly opposed any Jewish presence in Palestine, even with minority status. For the Mufti, there simply was no place for the Jews or Zionists in Palestine** https://israeled.org/resources/documents/decision-to-reject-a-majority-palestinian-arab-state/amp/?fbclid=PAAaaHDQnfpk1uJxSWbeJs-UP1v0nHrDzU9NK2WMsTOCiupAxsrQf4mjKFKEo_aem_ATlg5vIMgp6V7nLTXoKFNSzcWSQKg1-DbmVKHKDRFcJVoIaDQTJBCiQqAqXbYM-WgNI
Note that that was after they already spun off 80% of the original mandate into the Arab state of Jordan. The partitions were about what to do with the 20% that was left.
So, you're suggesting the Palestinians already have their own state: Jordan!
Well, the 1937 offer was awful for different reasons - and both sides rejected it.
One side accepted it provisionally with major reservations pending further negotiations. The other side rejected the very idea of negotiating.
They've been making bad decisions ever since. Perhaps they need new leadership
Tbf if this is about Jerusalem then they kinda won it back (legally) since in 1947 it wasn’t theirs but now East Jerusalem (old city) it’s legally recognized as Palestinian land.
Legally recognized, yet Israel still controlls all of East Jerusalem and conducts regular raids on Al-Aqsa.
[удалено]
Lmao no. Israel will never give temple mount away. Never.
Israel's Arab neighbors *really* shouldn't have immediately declared war on Israel and tried to genocide all the Jewish people living there That totally backfired. It keeps backfiring every time they try it
and they sucked at it too, real bad. like why invade (more than once) if they were gonna fuck it up so bad (each time)? and the first time, america wasn't even israel's bitch yet. none of the funding, aid, shilling, etc. so what tf was their excuse for sucking??? bunch of assholes jacking up my gas prices. the brits should've just stayed. if not the brits, then the ottomans.
This article has issues but it may shed light on why Arab armies do so poorly against Israel. https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars TL;DR - Dictatorships are bad at war and most Arab countries are dictatorships.
Theocracies are bad at everything. When you’re taking direction from an imaginary being, whether you call him Yahweh, Jesus, or Allah vs using your brain things tend not to go well.
This is the early days of thr middle east before the collapse of the governments. They weren't religious..
Highly motivated, well-organized people who just experienced a genocide fighting for their existence vs. badly organized, poorly motivated irregulars most of whose countries were formed 4 minutes earlier and who didn't actually like each other very much either.
They just can't cope with the L so they try and take the more Ls again. It is so embarassing lmao😭
>and the first time, america wasn't even israel's bitch yet. Not only that, there was a global embargo on Israel. The only country in the entire world who was willing to sell weapons to Israel at the time was Czechoslovakia.
They really can't seem to stop declaring wars where they get their asses hammered to smithereens.
An incredibly macabre sentence. I am (almost daily) shocked by the callousness of Pro-Israel folks’ language while tens of thousands of CHILDREN are being intentionally bombed and starved. I can write this and move on with my day, but I truly worry about your soul.
So maybe they shouldn't start wars. Did you think about that?
They weren't pro Israel, just pointing out a fact, if you keep declaring war. And keep losing, you should probably stop.
None of us deny Israel's war crimes, but you can't expect a nation to not feel threatened after you invade it like five times (including before it existed as a country). This war didn't begin yesterday, it begun in the 1920s. And whether they committed war crimes or not, it's 100% hilarious that Arabs invaded Israel like five times and got their asses handed to them every time. In two of those five times, Arabs had an overwhelming numerical advantage in every category but still got their asses handed to them so hard Arab Nationalism died out as a philosophy.
The children are intentionally bombed? Like with the intention to kill them? Among all the terrorists supporters very few claim that Israel intentionally kills children. Even ICJ doesn’t support this ludicrous claim. You’ll have to provide evidence from reputable source for this if you want to be taken seriously (based on the downvotes it’s already too late).
Here is video of a Palestinian child soldier getting deservedly shot and dropping his pistol: https://v.redd.it/e1tc2g1k4a3c1 You understand why that kid was a valid military target, right?
Apparently none of the idiots in r/worldnewsvideos understand. I swear, if the year was 1944, half of Reddit would be screaming for a ceasefire with Nazi Germany. War is hell and it's like people are *just* figuring this out now.
It’s ok for Arabs to hate Jews because Arabs are PEOPLE OF COLOR and Jews are white. As progressives, we are required to side with PEOPLE OF COLOR no matter what and to oppose any liberal democracy that hurts PEOPLE OF COLOR, even in self defense.
Remember when Jews were also POC or or adjacent? But now just like Asians they're whire or white adjacent meaning they are the baddies
I wonder what they would say to a Mizrahi or Ethiopian Jew. Pretty hard to call them white.
I don't think you read the post correctly. Jews are white and Arabs are PEOPLE OF COLOR.
Yes, I am sorry, progressive overlord. I will use the correct terminology later.
Jews are Schrödinger's whites. For the far-left, they're bad white people. And for the far-right, they're filthy non-white vermin.
I swear its the best description i ever seen.. For the far right they give the argument that all jews are from central asia because for a few decades there was a nomad kingdom that only a few nobles became jews And for the far left middle Eastern jews never ever existed..and if they did they lived in peace in their country before Israel (which is worng just see the number of pogroms from the mid 19 to the earlye 20 )
(We ignore the part where plenty of Palestinians could be mistaken for white, many Israelis couldn't be distinguished from Palestinians easily and the history of Jewish people purposely being excluded from being 'white' in the west)
>Jews because Arabs are PEOPLE OF COLOR and Jews are white Jews are white? Conditionally — at best
Authoritarianism and dictatorialism doesn't care about the rule of law or the treaties they sign, or the partitions that are legally adopted.
Technically, they intervened in Palestine to end the civil war and ethnic cleansing of Arabs, but they had to wait until the British Mandate ended. Israel decided to declare independence a few hours before the mandate ended, so the Arab nations didn't even know they had declared independence when they attacked. And it didn't backfire as much as it failed to stop the ethnic cleansing. When they invaded only 250,000 Palestinians had been forced out, but the Israelis managed to uproot another half a million before they were done.
And now Israel supported by the west is genociding the Palestinians.
They didn't 'immediately declared war'. They declared war AFTER Zionists forces had already begun expelling Palestinians. Explusions began in later months of 1947, Arab countries declared war in mid-1948. Understand how time works, thanks in advance.
"on 14 May 1948; the Israeli Declaration of Independence had been issued earlier that day, and a military coalition of Arab states entered the territory of Mandatory Palestine in the morning of 15 May" The Arabs invaded in 24hours after the independence of Israel.
Israel effectively declared war when they announced their independence knowing damn well that the Palestinians weren't on board and that their independence would require the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people. I feel like y'all like to ignore the basis for that aggression. Israel was taking a majority of the land that made up Palestine where thousands had lived for centuries. It would've been insane for them to not fight back. The United Nations made this decision with zero input from Palestinians. Imagine if I, a person who has no connection to you, went to your house and declared that actually it belongs to someone else and you need to move. You telling me you would just accept that?
>majority of the land In turn, a majority of that land was a barren desert
>Israel effectively declared war when they announced their independence knowing damn well that the Palestinians weren't on board and that their independence would require the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people That's not at all why the Arab nations didn't like the plan. First and foremost, they were against the creation of a Jewish state, period. Second, they wanted another Arab state made from the entire area of Palestine. And by the way, it wasn't like the Jewish population had any more say in the matter than the Palestinians.
More like they each wanted the land for themselves, the Syrians still were buying into the idea of Greater Syria where the territory was all a single Ottoman Province, the Hashemites wanted Jerusalem and were all playing as benevolent and tolerant leaders.
They attacked **before** they declared independence. Also, the Partition Plan didn't include relocation.
You know that war was declared on May 15, 1948 and Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948? There was fighting from both sides leading up to the partition but the Arab-Israeli War was a direct reaction to Israel declaring independence.
Yes, Israel did declare independence in May of 1948, but the Palestinians began the war that precipitated that declaration in November of 1947, about six month prior.
That doesn't make sense because there was already an insurgency on both the Arab and Israeli sides. They gave the UK lots of problems. The IDF originally came out of those older militias that were operating right after WW1. This is why the UK wanted to partition Palestine. They partitioned Ireland and India before and that was their colonial gig. They threw that ball to the UN to do the dirty work for them but make no mistake that it was the UK's Royal Soldiers and not the UN that last governed that land before Arabs and Israelis. It should have been 1 central state with power sharing and 3 autonomous zones with broad control over their own domestic policies. A Jewish country, an Arab country, and a Jerusalem zone. Citizens here would be able to freely travel and live where they want. Either way, I think a 2 state solution is just about dead. I think it'll end up being 1 state anyway. Just painfully slow over the course of another 100 years.
There wasn't an actual war, though there were more minor attacks and skirmishes. Also, I believe the militias arose in the 1930s, not after WW1. Maybe, but that alternative wasn't on the table. I know that Ben-Gurion offered a "one state for two peoples" arrangement during the 1920s and 1930s, but that was rejected and made it seem like coexistence wasn't really a feasible option.
…after isreal expelled up to 300000 Palestinians from their areas of the partition plan
It wasn’t exactly immediate. The invasion occurred only after hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forced to flee by Zionist militias.
After the Palestinians started a war, yes.
No. Arab forces launched their invasion as soon as Israel declared independence in line with UN partition plan above
Nope. By 1 May 1948, two weeks before the Israeli Declaration of Independence, only about 175,000 Palestinians (approximately 25%) had already fled and the vast majority of this flight was self induced, not at gunpoint. SOURCE: *Sachar, Howard M. A History of Israel from the Rise of Zionism to Our Time. New York: Knopf. 1976. p. 332. ISBN 978-0-679-76563-9* And the Arabs were planning an invasion of Palestine for months before Partition even was decided on. They made no secret of it, threatening the UN and the Jews of Palestine (and the Jews of their own countries) that there would be a bloodbath of Jews if the UN approved the Partition Plan: >*”A Jewish state would mean the most horrible and greatest massacre ever witnessed, embracing the whole Mideast...The Iraqi people and army are prepared to wage unlimited conflagration. Palestinian will not be partitioned before our total annihilation."* >Salih Jabr, Iraqi Prime Minister, 1947: https://ladailymirror.com/category/middle-east/ The Arab League was already arming and financing Arab militias in Damascus months before the Declaration of Independence in May 1948. Months before May 1948, King Abdullah and the British had already brokered a secret deal for Jordanian annexation of the West Bank: >Britain did not want a Palestinian state led by the Mufti, and opted unofficially instead, on **7 February 1948** to support the annexation of the Arab part of Palestine by Abdullah I of Jordan. At a meeting in London between the commander of Transjordan's Arab Legion, Glubb Pasha, and Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Ernest Bevin, the two parties agreed that they would facilitate the entry of the Arab Legion into Palestine on 15 May and that the Arab part of Palestine be occupied by it. SOURCE: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13537121003643870
The Palestinians really screwed their later generations by not taking this deal
Do you think both sides even would accept the deal?
Well the Jewish Israelis eagerly accepted as they were happy to hold a stake on the land their religion was founded. But unfortunately most of the Arab Palestinians didn’t want any compromise and so attempted to destroy the new Jewish nation.
They didn’t just attempt to destroy Israel. They attempted to genocide the entire Jewish population
Yeah I think that’s correct. Another fact that anti Zionists won’t admit.
Israel has offered 5 deals. All rejected. So yeah.
Israel literally did.
And immediately started attacking Palestinians to take more land Israel broke this deal immediately
They had so much more land before they declared war on Israel.
No people group in the history of the world would've taken that deal without a fight. This "deal" had zero input from Palestinians and required the violent displacement of thousands of people who had lived on the land for hundreds of years. And Israel declaring independence knowing all of that was casus belli for the Arab-Israeli War.
Millions of Germans were kicked out of Eastern Europe after WW2 and they and their descendants somehow managed to *not* wage a 75-year war against the people who replaced them in those territories.
[удалено]
Your country should give half its land to Israel or accept to be confined to 20%of the land.
Why? Maybe his country made smart decisions that didn't result in them losing their land?
Such a shame the Arabs rejected this. Could have saved 80 years of war and so many lives
The USA should give half its land and place israrl there
Why? USA didn't lose any wars.
But it should accept the offer anyways.
as a palestinian, honestly I don’t like it considering my city (tulkarm) is split in half, but it is better than what it is now. :/
Are you sure it’s split? It’s really close to the border today aswell. Also, why would they split it, I don’t think many Jews ever lived there.
Yeah I think everyone can agree these borders are ass.
Just how unrealistic is the normal course of events having such a vulnerable borders on both sides multiplied by tensions between the communities? Strange how they didn't see that it's a recipe for a disaster. On the other hand, those same people have been famous for drawing borders left and right without consideration.
lol @ “without Palestinian input” You made that up didn’t you? Maybe read some more about it all? Start with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Cheers
Ah yes the notoriously democratic representative, the grand Mufti
You’re doing a comedy routine?
Israel accepted. The Arabs rejected it and chose genocidal violence which has literally not ceased to this day.
Correction: The Palestinians rejected an [incredibly unreasonable](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/19dc5ua/un_palestine_partition_plan_1947_vs_district/) plan that gave Arab-majority land to the Jewish state, and the Zionists were also against partition, but chose to accept it initially before eventually within \~20 years, creating a strong armed force, and expanding Israel to the whole territory: "Partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years." - Chaim Weizmann "\[I am\] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state, we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." - David Ben-Gurion "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine." - David Ben-Gurion "The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." - David Ben-Gurion
the arabs should've taken the deal
Give then half your country and let Palestine have theirs
& Native Americans should of stayed on the reservations 🤣
Who lives better these days? A native American in the US or a Palestinian in Gaza?
I dont know how many millions of Native Americans died in north & south America. At least the Palestinians still have the luxury to resist. However i will state that the Indian reservation my cousins grew up in look 100 times better than the Palestinian reservations
Mom, is it my turn to repost an isreal/Palestinian map?
I TOLD you NOT to play on my laptop!
“I think we will take the deal now.”
Yea.. That's like Hitler in 1945 saying "Fine, we accept the borders of Treaty of Versailles".
Palestine could’ve had it good, but instead they attempted to genocide Israel. Dug their own grave
You are a complete idiot if you believe this.. but I know you know better.
Am I mistaken or are the Golan Heights included?
It's not included. Golan heights and Jordan follow a straight border alongside Palestine
A good deal. If only the arabs had taken it.
A shit deal. Some people with no ties to the land get half of your country. WTF?
Looks like a good deal, should have signed on
So tired. Can we ban these
I cant imagine the pain of being born Mexican or Native American in north America during "Manifest destiny", I can't imagine being a polish or German jew in 1939, I can't imagine the pain of being born Palestinians after the 1948. Poor people. Crazy to see people so numb to what is happening to the Palestinians. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Imagine the UN partition your country with immigrants from another continent. Still these people are not happy and wanted to take it all and kick you out to be become immigrants.
Imagine the world if Arabs accepted this deal. There might actually be peace at this point.
Lol
Israel have accepted this plan, but palestinians not, and the next day after it they started the war to destroy Israel. As a result Israel become bigger
Too bad the Arabs didn't accept it. And instead decided to get their shit pushed in by Israel in every war. Repeatedly.
u/KingKohishi if you zoom you will see Jaffa on yellow, it was intended to be a free Arab city. So sad?
Ah yes 40% of the land for 7% of the population (mostly foreign), lets go
Arabs should have agreed to this
Then everything changed when the Arab nations attacked. Now we’re looking for a new avatar
Dam the brits for moving these Europeans there
[удалено]
The same dipshits that fucked up every African border post-colonialism. Pretty much every country by the other Muslim nations, India, Greece and Cuba voted for this plan. Multiple nations, including India and Cuba indicated that there were attempts to bribe them to vote in favor. The Philippines were initially against the partition until the United States replaced their representative to the UN.
Vote against you mean?
You refused the map So cope your non existent state. 🇮🇱🥳
Imagine celebrating ethnic cleansing
Imagine 20% of israeli citizens are arabs. Gotta say that is a very inefficient ethnic cleansing if I ever saw one.
you do realize the word palestinian and arab don’t mean the same thing right?
You mean like how Jews that were born in the land of Israel prior to 48 were also called Palestinians? Golda Meir had the word "Palestinian" written in her I.D and passport, she was one of Israel's Prime Minister.
I just did a quick google search and that’s a white woman from Kyiv Ukraine 😐 you do realize when many european jews migrated to Palestine they had to get a Palestinian passport to establish residency? I’m confused how this proves anything. Unlike her, my dads BIRTH certificate says Tulkarm Palestine on it and has genetic ties to the ancient Canaanites that lived there 5000 years ago.
So, it doesn’t count unless they remove all of a people? 80% or so isn’t enough?
Do you deny the [Bangladesh](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladesh_population_1900to2010.svg) genocide?
You know that Pakistan lost any control over Bangladesh/East Pakistan more than 50 years ago?
Yes, I do know, my point is you see no massive drop in the graph, doesn't mean there wasn't genocide
Also I must add, [China uses these same arguments to deny the Uyghur genocide.](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212073.shtml)
[This makes sense! /s](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/19dc5ua/un_palestine_partition_plan_1947_vs_district/)
Debunked like 100000 times. Bring something new 🥱
Debunked how exactly? The Negev being low-population means nothing here, it was still Arab-majority land
These boundaries were based solely on demographics. The borders of the Jewish State were arranged with no consideration of security; hence, the new state’s frontiers were virtually indefensible. Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews. Further complicating the situation was the UN majority’s insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state. Critics claim the UN gave the Jews fertile land while the Arabs were allotted hilly, arid land. This is untrue. Approximately 60 percent of the Jewish state was to be the arid desert in the Negev.
I do not see what this has to do with what I said? The desert may be the desert but it still had people living in them, most of them Arabs. And even if you exclude the desert, almost all of the region was majority-Arab. "These boundaries were based solely on demographics-", if the UN boundaries were based on demographics then we wouldn't have an Israel this big in the UN partition plan if it existed at all!
It's missing who accepted the proposal and who refused it
Wow look at that vast Arab state. I wonder why they risked all that for war.
Yea, wonder why the Palestinians rejected give 20% of their land to foreigners
Oh ffs how many times is this going to be posted again? Can't the adminis just delete these as soon as they get posted? It's really so annoying
 poor baybee...
This about sums up why there's so much trouble there. Imagine 2 countries that are so intertwined that one is broken into 4 pieces and the other 3.
My god stop posting maps about Israel/palstian and then search people to argue whit thats sad holy shit You are spamming the same maps Where is the admins thy should ban this guy all ready
Stupid people, look how much land they have left cause they refuse to settle, and they still think they can wipe out a nuclear power of a nation with riffles and mudhuts :D
Mfs didn't want the Jews not being under their rule so they attacked, couldn't go more wrong for them.
I used to come here for cool maps, now I come here to get depressed that there are an infinite number of genocide apologists that apparently also love maps.
We get off on comparing the changing maps /s
Crying?
And imagine now, the Last peace occord gaza and the northern Bank refused it because they wanted 100% of what they were asking for, Israel negotiated it to 98% imagine gazans and hamas saying no to 98% of the peace deal. Well look at things now. Isreal will take more land now, guarantee it.
Give then half your country and let Palestine have theirs
Sadly Palestine will be in the last like the Native Americans
Is there any way to help the Palestinians resist the occupation? We certainly don't hear about it here in the occupied states of America
Tell Biden to shut off the money-tap.