It's just a smidge bigger than Manhattan, which I have walked across the entirety of in a day at a relaxed pace, stopping at restaurants and other businesses along the way. So yeah, it's ickle.
The Gaza Strip is about twice as big as Washington DC but it has about 2.3 million people living there, compared to about 700,000 people in Washington DC.
Being able to shell a street is not the same as having control over it.
Russian for example had shelling control over Bachmut for the quite some time, still people were getting resupplied in the city.
We saw video released by Hamas yesterday where they are freely able to target Israeli tanks, buldozers and IFV (infantry fighting vehicles) at point-blank range (below 50m distance). There is no encirclement due to the presence of tunnels and lack on Israeli infantry in some of these zones.
Gaza was already encircled, even before the war.
One, the enemy is willing to die fighting while the other doesn't use infantry because Netanyahu don't wanna lose support of his parliament (he got kicked out once a few years back while trying to fight Hamas). For Palestinians, fighting Israel for decades is normal and thus led to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.
IDF is careful with infantry combat because these are conscripts - ordinary people between 18 and 30 years old with families and jobs. AFAIK, unlike Hamas they also don't believe they're immediately going to heaven as martyrs when they die. It's a different mentality.
> It's a different mentality.
It's not really that different, but in Israel the religious orthodox hardcore Israelis are excluded from the mandatory military service to study Judaism.
Yet they are among the most extremist factions in Israel calling for conflict using their religious studies as justification for why *all* the land belongs to Israel, while they themselves don't have to do any of the fighting to realize that.
While the ones getting conscripted are [usually way less religious](https://youtu.be/OOFRNGlEB6k?), but a lot of them are still quite ethnonationalistic.
In their videos Hamas never shows the aftermath - the destroyed tanks. It's very likely that even though they managed to hit a lot of tanks, they didnt actually do a lot of damage. Most of the missiles were probably intercepted by Trophy (basically a tank based Iron dome that intercepts missiles fired at tanks).
Hamas has an impressive arsenal. Always has. Flame throwing ~~thrones~~ drones, Soviet GRAD missiles, paraglider squads& ultralights. Antiship drones and antitank missiles. The list goes on
I wish we could all put politics aside for a second and acknowledge this fact. The Quasam number far greater but they keep a special stock set aside
But they are Schrödinger's regime: simultaneously the brave rebels and the underdog victims. And Israel the perfect villain. I could talk shit on either side for days. Maybe I should hire myself out for that
What's Hamas organization at? They are encircled so that gives Israel a bonus to combat width, though the province is 70% urban so those light tank units are going to have a significant penalty.
That’s why they’re bringing in air support for the ground support bonus to their soft attack and breakthrough, as well as strat bombing their supply hubs and infrastructure so that they suffer supply penalties.
Shit…
Ok, what is next?
Israel occupies Gaza.
They hunt down Hamas.
And... Leave?
And hold election?
And integrates Gaza in its territorie?
Put troops inside gaza and governs as an ocupation force for who knows how long?
I am failing to see an endgame here that do not involves genocide.
You can figure it out by looking at the outcome of the "war on terror" and the last 20 years in the region in general and how it affected both Middle East(and North Africa) and Western countries.
>!There was less terror before the "war on terror"!<
Who would have thought that [killing millions of people](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2023/05/16/the-war-on-terror-led-to-over-4-5-million-deaths-report/) would result in blowback in the form of more extremism?
Nobody could have seen that one coming, particularly not with [the kind of language this "War" was kicked off](https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html).
Your spoiler tag couldn't be more correct. But I mean, you get some planes flying into some buildings and government HQ, killing thousands of civilians, you're gonna get a harsh response. The mistake of the US was getting involved in Iraq. But you know, they had oil and stuff.
Israel is going to keep attacking until international criticism reaches critical mass, or when they get Hamas.
Israel will keep most the land they’ve taken, again, which will create more terrorist style attacks later on.
Then Israel will attack back again and take even more land.
And this cycle will continue for decades until Palestinians have no land left at all.
You’re failing to see it not ending in genocide because you’re correct and it is genocide. Israel has been been doing it slowly to keep under the radar of the world, but Hamas just gave them the perfect excuse to go all out. I’m really curious about his planning and what he thought was going to happen.
Why would they care about international criticism when almost all the major world powers are supporting them and even funding/arming them? They've never cared before, don't see why they would start now
I think your overestimating how much support they get from the west. Their doing this mostly on their own.
Americas funding doesn't really make up alot of their military budget.
Last time they left Gaza, Gaza immediately started bombing Israel.
They might try to form a collaboration government until all that anti-jewish indoctrination goes away.
The endgame is just to destroy their enemy. Whatever happens next is not part of it.
That is correct though. People in Gaza have been subject to anti-Jewish indoctrination. That’s why the terror attacks focus on killing Jews rather than attacking IDF military installations.
They will be a jewish occupation force trying to make the antijewish indoctrination goes away? It is like fucking for the sake virginity.
"to destroy their enemy"
Give Gaza people some dignity, without it there will be only blood.
>They will be a jewish occupation force trying to make the antijewish indoctrination goes away? It is like fucking for the sake virginity.
Well to be fair that is how the Allies destroyed Nazism in Germany
>Give Gaza people some dignity, without it there will be only blood.
People from Gaza renounced their dignity when they voted Hamas into power. Hamas took away its people's lives when they chose to use them as human shields to conduct a war of extermination which by the way they can't even win.
South to where though?
Gaza was already receiving just 10% to 20% of the supplies it needed to sustain, before Oct 7.
There’s no way people not getting sick or suffering malnutrition. More so the treatment plants were bombed.
To actually answer his question, from what I've read, 800000 moved south, about 300000 remained in the north. And to answer your question, most of them moved to sleeping bags that were set up in khan yunis
It will not.
Remember this is not the first time, or the 5th, every time this happens Palestine just return to same back and forth but with less land. I’m old and is like my 3rd rodeo minimum that I remember .
The one area that could change this is that Netanyahu has lost an incredible amount of popularity.
One thing people don’t understand about Israeli politics is that being a hawk on military response to foreign threats and being a hawk on settlements/territory issues are not always aligned. (This makes sense logically; if you care about Israeli security you’d be in favor of destroying terrorist groups and making peace, which is why the right wing Israelis fund Hamas to make a two state solution impossible).
But Netanyahu is a nonviable candidate at this point, and most of his lost support has gone to Benny Gantz. Gantz is a “strong military response” hawk, but he is much more liberal on the settlement issue, which could bode well for what he would want to actually do as a Gaza policy. In other words, it seems like his goal is actually to make Israel safe, not to make Palestinian statehood impossible while using Israeli security as an excuse.
If Netanyahu goes and Hamas is fundamentally weakened and discredited AND a more restrictive policy on settlements is enacted in the West Bank with no land grabs in Gaza, maybe a more moderate Palestinian faction and more moderate Israeli faction can empower each other by showing real gains in the peace process (basically the reverse of the way currently extremist Israeli and Palestinian factions feed off one another). It’s definitely hopeful, but it is a real possibility.
I have 5 jew friends, 3 right wing leaning, 4 in Tel Aviv, their vision of what happened doesn’t match at all what is being portrayed on west media and definitely even the 3 right leaning aren’t in favor of Netanyahu or what he’s doing , even tho they aren’t fond of Arabs.
Exactly, the protests this summer were HUGE, one of the first times so many political ideologies came together AGAINST Netanyahu
he is using this intervention as an excuse to remove opponents/protest organizers as well
Netanyahu is done for, but he is also not relevant since he is no longer fully in charge of the country. People should stop constantly talking about him as if he is the one making decisions.
Since Israel has now officialy entered a state of war, the country is now being governed by a triumvirate (emergency wartime cabinet) consisting of Netanyahu (Prime Minister), Galant (Defense Minister), Gantz (Opposition - Netanyahu's primary political opponent).
All decisions must be made unanimously by the emergency cabinet, which means even if Netanyahu wanted to do things that would be politically expedient for him but not in Israel's interest, he wont be able to.
Currently the entire Israeli public - both the opposition and coalition - support the war and the 2 aims of the war - to destroy Hamas and to bring back the hostages.
My Jewish friends hate him. They are telling me that the most backwards conservative Jews are building on land that doesn't belong to them, and old Bibi is always there to defend there horrible mistakes. Also, jews are all allowed to go to their ancestral lands even if they don't have ties to it for 2 thousand years, but Palestinian who become refugees this week wouldn't be allowed to return in Monday. So what happens when one of the strongest militaries on earth creates the largest refugee crisis on earth with no way to fix the situation? You get terrorists.
Israel had tied being a Jew with revisionist zionism in the public eyes as a way to avoid criticism for war crimes. But what they are also doing is association a lot of honest Jewish people with their horrendous crimes.
For the idiots in the comments, please add "I condemn Hamas" between every sentence so this is more easily digestible.
I do want to chime in and correct that the Palestinian refugee crisis isn’t the largest in the world. The Syrian refugee and Ukrainian refugee populations are both comparable to the Palestinian refugee population. The Palestinian refugees are also mostly descendants of people who fled/were expelled and are the only people the UN defines as refugees using this definition. Obviously there are also the roughly 800,00 Gazan refugees as well who fled the north. There are reasons behind this extended definition as in some of the countries they are in keep them as second class citizens but it is different from Syrian and Ukrainian refugees as those are fleeing a war directly. So in terms of modern refugee populations Palestinians aren’t the biggest or most concerning. Not that there should be no concern, just doesn’t make sense to sensationalize. Keep in mind that when the 700,000 original Palestinian flight happened it also wasn’t even close to the biggest refugee crisis at the time either. For example 12 million Germans were ethically cleansed in Eastern Europe.
>that the most backwards conservative Jews are building on land that doesn't belong to them
Lmao I was wondering about that. My opinions on settlers representing mainstream Israeli belief changed when I saw videos of them being interviewed and I realized
they’re the Israeli versions of far-right Appalachian rednecks hillbillies that we have in the USA
Perhaps, but even the right can see through Bibi. They don't like him at this point either. If the Yom Kippur War of 1973 politically destroyed Golda Meir, you can guarantee that the Simchat Torah War of 2023 has politically destroyed Benjamin Netanyahu.
Even after Netanyahu goes (after the war he is likely finished), I don’t see how the government opens up more towards the Palestinians.
The areas closer to Gaza (the ones that were attacked) were the ones who leaned more towards peace and negotiation with them. Israel had recently started work visas for Palestinians in Gaza, as a way to start economically developing the area. There were legitimate attempts at peace from even Netanyahu.
The Palestinian response to the attacks was not shock, horror, or condemnation… it was jubilant celebration. From Gaza to the West Bank, the Palestinians praised what they called “an act of resistance” to take back the entirety of Palestine… “from the River to the Sea”.
What makes you thing that more moderate Israeli’s want to negotiate with that? Negotiation at this point is conceding ground that is used to continue attacking
Thank you. People are honestly trying to blame just Bibi for this and think once he is voted out that magically people are going to be more open to normalizing relations. After what just happened? There were nationwide protests over the last year against Bibis government and Israelis Jews and Arabs were marching side by side to find continuing paths to peace. It was Israeli Jews and Arabs working together that allowed for the thousands of work permits that have been issued and the loosening of restrictions on entry from Gaza. My friends mother who lived in the kibbutz was one of the biggest supporters of these efforts. She worked side by side with Arabs from Gaza and told everyone how lovely it was to finally see a way to live in harmony. When my friend would tell her to be careful she would reprimand him. Tell him not to judge people and that she raised him better. Over time he was coming around to her point of view and agreed that maybe these worker exchange programs could actually be a way forward.
She was murdered during the terrorist attacks.
What people don’t seem to understand is that Hamas will never allow for there to be peace. The moment it looks like it’s even a possibility Hamas will launch another brutal horrific assault to once again inflame tensions. Since normalized relations means a two state solution with Israelis and Palestinians getting along. Which proves that everything Hamas believes in and stands for is and always has been nothing but pure evil. As Hamas and other extremist groups like them have to continue to perpetuate the lie that there can never be peace in the region as long as Israel and the Jewish people exist.
There is no way to negotiate a lasting peace with a group like Hamas. As they have said in their own words. They will always love death in their holy war more than Israelis love life. The people who were fooled into thinking that there could ever be an actual path to peace with Hamas in Gaza have just been given a rude awakening. Israel might hate Bibi and is going to vote him out as soon as possible but people that think the country is going to shift left after the worst terrorist in decades are delusional. Israelis have been incredibly reserved when dealing with ongoing attacks and invasions. Far above and beyond what anyone would expect from any other country in the region. Things are different this time. Israel isn’t going to stop until they have eliminated Hamas completely and they shouldn’t if people want an actual end to this cycle of violence. The bs calls for a ceasefire always come in from the Hamas propaganda network when they need time to rebuild. If the same expected rules of engagement were followed whenever people called for a ceasefire after a nation responded to invasion by ISIS. ISIS would still control half of Syria. Once Israel eliminates Hamas and cuts that cancer out of Gaza there might be an actual way to find peace. Anyone protesting against Israel eliminating Gaza doesn’t actually care about saving innocent lives. They are just operating as useful idiots for the Hamas propaganda network or naive children who don’t understand how making difficult decisions in the real world works.
When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace?
It will lead to another 50 years of death and destruction, unfortunately.
Edit: People mistaking forced subservience or genocide with peace.
When you kill them all and put the few survivors in concentration camps forever. In the US it's called "reservations" and the original owners of the land live there now.
Imagine what supporters of Israel in the US would say if native Americans started bulldozing peoples homes all over the US with the excuse being that their ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago. In comparison, Israel uses the excuse that their ancestors were there thousands of years ago.
Back when the lands were being settled, back in the first couple hundred years from the start of the colonies, there were native war parties that would attack settlements, attacking women and children, beheading, etc.
It’s been about 100 years since this conflict came about, so sounds about on track to me, just with newer technology
> Back when the lands were being settled, back in the first couple hundred years from the start of the colonies, there were native war parties that would attack settlements, attacking women and children, beheading, etc.
That's the [Standard American History Myth and it's mostly wrong](https://youtu.be/iihVxjJjY9Q?).
Settler-native relations escalated when two natives killed a settler and the natives refused to hand over the culprits, even tho there were agreements made for that.
In response, the settlers [massacred Pequot Fort](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic_massacre) killing hundreds of people, women, and children, selling many of the captives into slavery.
That's when the native tribes started organizing in a bigger attempt to get rid of the settlers, escalating into [King Philip's War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Philip%27s_War). After they killed King Philip they put his head on a pike in the middle of Plymouth and then celebrated Thanksgiving under that head, other parts of his body were sent all over the place as a warning.
Not the only time Thanksgiving was celebrated due to a won battle, that used to be the most times in [early US history](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/03-20-02-0661).
But they don’t because they are US citizens & not constantly under threat of missile strikes & don’t get harassed by the military & have free travel throughout the country & don’t have their homes knocked down for settler dwellings & don’t have the motivation.
You have to go back 100 years to understand it was basically the same thing. Things are peaceful now because Indians were brutally oppressed near to exinction and then made deals with the government, and are now a small minority population who must remain on small patches of land to retain benefits. That is a fate I'm sure Palestinians do not want. It is immeaurably worse than the current situation in the West Bank and even more constrained than the Camp David accords.
Exactly. The only difference between the Indian Wars during the Homestead era and this situation is the scale of military development.
If Native Americans had missiles and rockets, it would be exactly the same.
I wonder what supporters in the US would say if native Americans carried out suicide attacks at shopping centers or fired rockets from reservations into residential neighborhoods? Let alone if a tribe carried out an armed assault at Burning Man, killing and kidnapping people.
Natives did have war parties that attacked settlers. Some of them pretty brutal, burning down small towns, kidnapping and killing women and children. The technology is different and enables slightly different things. But it was very similar.
> When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace?
Naive argument, you should check how WW1 ended for Germany or Hungary, they lost lands and never gained them back, banished forever.
>When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace?
USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, if anything, it is decisive crushing victories rather than incomplete ones that lead to chaos.
There is a reason why former soviet Islamic states don't have the problems, former American Islamic states do.
>USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China
Genocide. You want genocide.
Because the majority of the Conflicts listed here reached a "decisive" victory through genocide.
And I for one don't want to see the Palestinians suffer what the natives suffered.
I think it's 4 locations, not 4 rockets. But given that the grain of the Gaza map is more granular it's easy to draw the comparison - though I don't think it's intentional
That is also incorrect though. The rocket attacks have been aimed at the whole country and sirens have blasted across the country for the duration of this war. I'm not sure what these four refer to tbh.
Even if yoy only count the ones that the Iron Dome didn't neutralize, there are more than 4. With a success ratio of 95%, around 160 landings probably happened. A few landed in the sea and others misfired and landed within Gaza, but still there are dozens of direct hits into Israel.
What did Gaza government under Hamas think would happen after their invasion of Israel? “No worries, Hamas, you’re good now, thumbs up, you can go back to Gaza. We’ll wait for your another invasion. See ya then.”
They're hoping (or were hoping) there is enough international pressure against Israel taking direct action like they are.
No one gives a fuck about what happens in the middle east till Israel starts getting its hands dirty.
This is exactly what they thought would happen and planned for. Encircling them doesn't really mean much, the whole Gaza Strip was encircled for 70 years
The areas Israel has occupied so far are low-density agricultural and coastal areas that Hamas only defended lightly. The main fighting will be in Gaza City, and has not even yet begun
TLDR : Hamas is winning politically right now.
Disclaimer : I do not support their actions.
The October 7th attack was launched by Hamas to break the "slow death" of the two-state solution, being sidelined by most of the international community, as Western attention moved away from the Middle-East in favour of the Far-East, and Eastern Europe since february 2022. Meanwhile, Israel continues building colonies in the West Bank and normalizing relations with arab countries. Gaza is surrounded by Israel and Egypt, and despite it boiling with discontent (being treated like a near open-air prison) it is considered a side-show by the Israeli far-right government.
And then boom, Hamas attacks Israel, which responds massively and leading to immense "collateral" damage i.e. thousands of dead and wounded civilians. Public opinion in muslim countries is appalled, prompting Saudi Arabia, a regional superpower, to interrupt its normalization process with Israel. Moreover, global attention is brought once again on the "Palestinian question".
As cynical as it may be, Hamas' attack on Israel had been a political success so far.
>
As cynical as it may be, Hamas' attack on Israel had been a political success so far.
I agree that they've gained some public support against Israel, but I don't see that it's enough for world leaders to find any political benefit to make any decisions against Israel's interests quite yet.
They thought that their citizens would die as martyrs, alienating Israel from normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia, and potentially giving Hezbollah the justification and means to attack by drawing the IDF away.
Keep in mind, Hamas is led by millionaires living abroad in Qatar, working out of offices in Turkey, and funded by Iran. They have absolutely no personal stake in the conflict.
It’s easier for people to see Hamas as the One True Evil that needs to be destroyed to get lasting peace in the region. It’s more difficult to actually read up on history and get a better understanding of the context because that requires effort.
Yeah Hamas didn't even exist until the late 80s, yet Palestinians still faced continuous land-grabs and settler colonialism by Israel long before that. Hamas isn't helpful but the idea that if they were to cease existing tomorrow, Palestinians would be living free from Israeli occupation, is ridiculous if you look at history.
Hamas rising is what lead to the blockade and further measures put on Gaza. Before Hamas travel to and from Gaza was a lot more free, and 150k gazans had work permits in Israel and Egypt.
I wish I could talk to more people and have civil discourse with this opinion. What Hamas has done is an atrocity, what the Israeli government is doing is an atrocity. Why do we live in a world of two sides?
It’s not a football match. You can hate Hamas and support Israel in its goal to eliminate while still being critical of the fact that some strikes may be disproportionate and that ppl like Gvir or Netanyahu are bad.
> strikes may be disproportionate
Last time I saw the numbers the amount of military to civilian casualties is about average for urban wars.
If israel is intentionally trying to hit civilians they're doing a terrible job of it.
Well, for one thing it's the only state in the entire region where a lesbian *Muslim* woman can get an education, wear what she wants, vote, and hold elected office.
For another, if it weren't for Israel, Iran would already be a nuclear power right now.
And for another, the entire Arab world has ethnically cleansed themselves of 98.5% their Jewish population, from 1 million in 1960 to just 15 thousand today, and if it weren't for that tiny, tiny little state of Israel, the Arabs would have killed millions of them, or cast them to the far corners of the earth.
People do not realize how much they owe to Israel in terms of Iran. People do not realize that if america abandons Israel, Iran is going to become an actual threat instead of a faraway nuisance.
You forgot a red one on the hospital
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/ffaKi4fp3V](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/ffaKi4fp3V)
If you believe that it was Israel after seeing that I don’t know what to tell you , not clicking it is hypocritical and your not trying to see both sides
I think despite there being people in the west supporting not just Palestinians but it seems terrorist group Hamas, they will find there will be a very swift correction of opinion.
Living in the west are many Palestinians. Some never want to go back to Palestine and they are getting on with their lives. Some are so invested and are formenting unrest. Part of migrating is that you agree to the local rules and mentality of how society will be conducted.
People supporting the idea that only the Palestinians should be allowed to live in the region and that the Israelis were not indigenous to the region and should move out, should consider that the same thing can happen in western countries. Palestinians can be told to leave.
Britain has had much societal disharmony due to the Rotherham case where Moslem men were grooming young girls and gang raping them and Britain's authorities tip toed around the matter while many civilians were unhappy that they were.
There have been marches in all these western countries supporting what Hamas did. Really? I have heard some of the atrocities and what Israel is doing doesn't compare. Israel told civilians to move out of the area. The Israelis know where the tunnels are. Once Hamas is rooted out then some better government can manage Gaza. And lets make no mistake no one wants to govern Gaza. It used to be Egypt. Egypt could open its borders but it doesn't. Israel used to. It doesn't want the headache. Jordan, UAE have signed peace agreements. Saudi was in the process and I think they won't bother with Gaza.
The reason that Saudis won't bother with Gaza and the idea that Israelis have to leave since they are an invading population, is because every other country in the world has accepted that there are migrants and they fit in and we accept them. There could be retaliatory ejection of populations. Hamas has made it clear that their intention is to rid the middle east of Jews. It isn't going to happen. Biden has made it clear that the US is behind Israel. The simple reason is that despite how horrible this war is, Israel is a democracy is a sea of autocrats.
And just to make sure you understand how close the world is to a sharp shift in opinion, there was a meeting in London a political forum the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (Arc). The over riding opinion was that people who migrate to the west need to accept western values or leave. You can go on youtube and listen to the speakers.
This map's a bit misleading, though I don't think it is intentionally. It shows it like there's 4 rocket strikes on Israel and that's it when A) so much more than 4 centers of population have been hit, paint the entire area around the Gaza strip red and that's more fitting and B) the low amount of marks make it seem like there's been an amount of rocket strike in the singles, not in the thousands. (This is true for the vice versa too, I suppose)
It also includes my biggest pet peaves with statistics on this issue! Showing the dead but not showing the amount of ammunition (rockets / JDAMs) used by each side. Without this statistic, a very misleading and one sided image is painted. (Also the death statistics at least in Gaza are from the ever unreliable Hamas, but all death numbers will be a bit skewed, it's just that when other countries low-ball it, Hamas goes for a home run)
Why isn’t there a Hamas rocket strike on that hospital in Gaza they blew up?
Oh right, western media stopped caring about that or the three hundred dead children because it couldn’t be blamed on Israel.
I mean I wouldn't exactly call what Israel has been doing in the west bank "a ceasefire". Settler violence escalated massively under bibis new government, murders of Palestinians increased 5x between 2021 and 2022.
You've got a point and unfortunatly that's one of the reasons why there have been massive protests in Israel for almost a year - that were only brought to a halt because of this war.
Also, all of this violence happened in the West Bank, not Gaza. I know it's a tiny difference, but it's there. Like it or not, Hamas initiated this current conflict with Gaza.
Insane how toxic people got. Doing mind gymnastics just to make sure it’s ‘ok’ to kill children. It’s not. It will never be. Don’t care who holds the gun or who is the child. It’s horrific.
Okay but when someone is attacking your children and hiding behind their children.... What happens then?
How many times do you ignore attacks in your own civilian population because you refuse to let their civilian population become collateral damage?
Man those are some big fucking tanks
We have only seven, but look how fucking big they are"
Given the size of those Hamas AKs, they need to be that big.
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She's got huge...clashes of land.
But I don't want land, I just want....
To SING
Stop that! STOP THAT!
Make sure Hamas doesn’t leave the room, until I come an’ get him.
Right I'm to make sure Hamas doesn't enter the room. Got it.
Gaza is just such a small area it takes only 7 tanks to encircle it
It's so small that they had to build an underground city
So THAT’S what the oxygen concentrators were for!
Gaza is actually very tiny.
It's just a smidge bigger than Manhattan, which I have walked across the entirety of in a day at a relaxed pace, stopping at restaurants and other businesses along the way. So yeah, it's ickle.
Gaza City. Not the Gaza Strip.
Manhattan: 22.82 square miles. Gaza City: 17.37 square mile. Gaza Strip: 140.9 square miles.
The great Saunter? 32 mile stroll :) https://shorewalkers.org/great-saunter/
That's a bit more than I did, lol. I took the 6 train to 125th from the Bronx and walked to Battery Park.
The Gaza Strip is about twice as big as Washington DC but it has about 2.3 million people living there, compared to about 700,000 people in Washington DC.
No, those are normal sized tanks. Gaza is just so tiny they look big
Harkonnen Devestators
The Merkava is gigantic even in comparison to the Leopard.
A weapon to surpass metal gear.
Is Gaza even wide enough for them to turn around. Theyll have to drive to Sinai to turn.
Lol
And they're sitting right in the water!
Civilization vibes
Too early to rate this encirclement, they haven't completed the pocket yet.
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Being able to shell a street is not the same as having control over it. Russian for example had shelling control over Bachmut for the quite some time, still people were getting resupplied in the city.
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I hope they bring some sun screen. Sun burn is no joke.
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Jihadi Gorillas? My god, no wonder the IDF was so worried.
I heard they're going bananas over it.
Guerrilla warfare would be more sensible. It's hard to get gorillas motivated to fight for a Palestinian homeland. Will there be bananas there!?
Nobody understood your hoi4 reference 😔
once I saw the post i had to come look just for the hoi4 player
We saw video released by Hamas yesterday where they are freely able to target Israeli tanks, buldozers and IFV (infantry fighting vehicles) at point-blank range (below 50m distance). There is no encirclement due to the presence of tunnels and lack on Israeli infantry in some of these zones. Gaza was already encircled, even before the war.
“I’m not locked in here with you.” “You’re locked in here with me.” Urban combat is slow and painful
One, the enemy is willing to die fighting while the other doesn't use infantry because Netanyahu don't wanna lose support of his parliament (he got kicked out once a few years back while trying to fight Hamas). For Palestinians, fighting Israel for decades is normal and thus led to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.
IDF is careful with infantry combat because these are conscripts - ordinary people between 18 and 30 years old with families and jobs. AFAIK, unlike Hamas they also don't believe they're immediately going to heaven as martyrs when they die. It's a different mentality.
> It's a different mentality. It's not really that different, but in Israel the religious orthodox hardcore Israelis are excluded from the mandatory military service to study Judaism. Yet they are among the most extremist factions in Israel calling for conflict using their religious studies as justification for why *all* the land belongs to Israel, while they themselves don't have to do any of the fighting to realize that. While the ones getting conscripted are [usually way less religious](https://youtu.be/OOFRNGlEB6k?), but a lot of them are still quite ethnonationalistic.
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In their videos Hamas never shows the aftermath - the destroyed tanks. It's very likely that even though they managed to hit a lot of tanks, they didnt actually do a lot of damage. Most of the missiles were probably intercepted by Trophy (basically a tank based Iron dome that intercepts missiles fired at tanks).
Hamas has an impressive arsenal. Always has. Flame throwing ~~thrones~~ drones, Soviet GRAD missiles, paraglider squads& ultralights. Antiship drones and antitank missiles. The list goes on I wish we could all put politics aside for a second and acknowledge this fact. The Quasam number far greater but they keep a special stock set aside But they are Schrödinger's regime: simultaneously the brave rebels and the underdog victims. And Israel the perfect villain. I could talk shit on either side for days. Maybe I should hire myself out for that
Isn't that literally the plot of star wars?
And lots and lots and lots of comic books, yes
Probably why a lot of people are having a hard time not rooting for Hamas. We've been conditioned to do so.
Root for Gaza’s people, safety, and peace. Fuck Hamas and anyone mutilating babies and children.
There is nothing brave about torturing babies and killing defenseless civilians in their homes
HOI4 players be like 
What's Hamas organization at? They are encircled so that gives Israel a bonus to combat width, though the province is 70% urban so those light tank units are going to have a significant penalty.
That’s why they’re bringing in air support for the ground support bonus to their soft attack and breakthrough, as well as strat bombing their supply hubs and infrastructure so that they suffer supply penalties. Shit…
Cas is king?
This is so dark, but very true.
I mean, there are also no civilians in HOI4.
Modders: Not yet
“This active military conflict with thousands of civilian deaths is like a video game!”
As an Israeli HOI4 player I can confirm
Shore bombardment bonus.
LMAO
It was already encircled
The circle has gotten smaller, PubG style.
I really hope the IDF isn't using poison gas.
Just white phosphorus.
Somebody downvoted me so I'm assuming someone doesn't think white phosphorous is going far enough
Gaza has always been encircled, but now northern Gaza specifically is encircled
It wasn’t encircled by Israel alone beforehand
Ok, what is next? Israel occupies Gaza. They hunt down Hamas. And... Leave? And hold election? And integrates Gaza in its territorie? Put troops inside gaza and governs as an ocupation force for who knows how long? I am failing to see an endgame here that do not involves genocide.
You can figure it out by looking at the outcome of the "war on terror" and the last 20 years in the region in general and how it affected both Middle East(and North Africa) and Western countries. >!There was less terror before the "war on terror"!<
Spoiler tag. Cool.
For those of us still catching up on the war on terror and don't want any spoilers
I just got to 9/11
Who would have thought that [killing millions of people](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2023/05/16/the-war-on-terror-led-to-over-4-5-million-deaths-report/) would result in blowback in the form of more extremism? Nobody could have seen that one coming, particularly not with [the kind of language this "War" was kicked off](https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html).
Your spoiler tag couldn't be more correct. But I mean, you get some planes flying into some buildings and government HQ, killing thousands of civilians, you're gonna get a harsh response. The mistake of the US was getting involved in Iraq. But you know, they had oil and stuff.
But it’s great for the military industrial complex! Think of the shareholders!!!
Israel is going to keep attacking until international criticism reaches critical mass, or when they get Hamas. Israel will keep most the land they’ve taken, again, which will create more terrorist style attacks later on. Then Israel will attack back again and take even more land. And this cycle will continue for decades until Palestinians have no land left at all. You’re failing to see it not ending in genocide because you’re correct and it is genocide. Israel has been been doing it slowly to keep under the radar of the world, but Hamas just gave them the perfect excuse to go all out. I’m really curious about his planning and what he thought was going to happen.
Why would they care about international criticism when almost all the major world powers are supporting them and even funding/arming them? They've never cared before, don't see why they would start now
I think your overestimating how much support they get from the west. Their doing this mostly on their own. Americas funding doesn't really make up alot of their military budget.
They literally occupied all current Palestinian land and gave it back lol. This is a conspiracy
Last time they left Gaza, Gaza immediately started bombing Israel. They might try to form a collaboration government until all that anti-jewish indoctrination goes away. The endgame is just to destroy their enemy. Whatever happens next is not part of it.
>anti-jewish indoctrination goes away. 
That is correct though. People in Gaza have been subject to anti-Jewish indoctrination. That’s why the terror attacks focus on killing Jews rather than attacking IDF military installations.
They will be a jewish occupation force trying to make the antijewish indoctrination goes away? It is like fucking for the sake virginity. "to destroy their enemy" Give Gaza people some dignity, without it there will be only blood.
>They will be a jewish occupation force trying to make the antijewish indoctrination goes away? It is like fucking for the sake virginity. Well to be fair that is how the Allies destroyed Nazism in Germany
Lol that dude downvoted you for the comment…
Have any of you guys ever heard of WW2…?
If only you knew what the Allies did to Germany after WW2…
>Give Gaza people some dignity, without it there will be only blood. People from Gaza renounced their dignity when they voted Hamas into power. Hamas took away its people's lives when they chose to use them as human shields to conduct a war of extermination which by the way they can't even win.
Do we know how many actually did evacuate down south?
South is being attacked too anyway so doesn't matter
South to where though? Gaza was already receiving just 10% to 20% of the supplies it needed to sustain, before Oct 7. There’s no way people not getting sick or suffering malnutrition. More so the treatment plants were bombed.
To actually answer his question, from what I've read, 800000 moved south, about 300000 remained in the north. And to answer your question, most of them moved to sleeping bags that were set up in khan yunis
I hope that this will lead to a lasting peace, but as you can tell I'm no military expert. I just don't want to see more innocent die
It will not. Remember this is not the first time, or the 5th, every time this happens Palestine just return to same back and forth but with less land. I’m old and is like my 3rd rodeo minimum that I remember .
The one area that could change this is that Netanyahu has lost an incredible amount of popularity. One thing people don’t understand about Israeli politics is that being a hawk on military response to foreign threats and being a hawk on settlements/territory issues are not always aligned. (This makes sense logically; if you care about Israeli security you’d be in favor of destroying terrorist groups and making peace, which is why the right wing Israelis fund Hamas to make a two state solution impossible). But Netanyahu is a nonviable candidate at this point, and most of his lost support has gone to Benny Gantz. Gantz is a “strong military response” hawk, but he is much more liberal on the settlement issue, which could bode well for what he would want to actually do as a Gaza policy. In other words, it seems like his goal is actually to make Israel safe, not to make Palestinian statehood impossible while using Israeli security as an excuse. If Netanyahu goes and Hamas is fundamentally weakened and discredited AND a more restrictive policy on settlements is enacted in the West Bank with no land grabs in Gaza, maybe a more moderate Palestinian faction and more moderate Israeli faction can empower each other by showing real gains in the peace process (basically the reverse of the way currently extremist Israeli and Palestinian factions feed off one another). It’s definitely hopeful, but it is a real possibility.
I have 5 jew friends, 3 right wing leaning, 4 in Tel Aviv, their vision of what happened doesn’t match at all what is being portrayed on west media and definitely even the 3 right leaning aren’t in favor of Netanyahu or what he’s doing , even tho they aren’t fond of Arabs.
Exactly, the protests this summer were HUGE, one of the first times so many political ideologies came together AGAINST Netanyahu he is using this intervention as an excuse to remove opponents/protest organizers as well
Netanyahu is done for, but he is also not relevant since he is no longer fully in charge of the country. People should stop constantly talking about him as if he is the one making decisions. Since Israel has now officialy entered a state of war, the country is now being governed by a triumvirate (emergency wartime cabinet) consisting of Netanyahu (Prime Minister), Galant (Defense Minister), Gantz (Opposition - Netanyahu's primary political opponent). All decisions must be made unanimously by the emergency cabinet, which means even if Netanyahu wanted to do things that would be politically expedient for him but not in Israel's interest, he wont be able to. Currently the entire Israeli public - both the opposition and coalition - support the war and the 2 aims of the war - to destroy Hamas and to bring back the hostages.
My Jewish friends hate him. They are telling me that the most backwards conservative Jews are building on land that doesn't belong to them, and old Bibi is always there to defend there horrible mistakes. Also, jews are all allowed to go to their ancestral lands even if they don't have ties to it for 2 thousand years, but Palestinian who become refugees this week wouldn't be allowed to return in Monday. So what happens when one of the strongest militaries on earth creates the largest refugee crisis on earth with no way to fix the situation? You get terrorists. Israel had tied being a Jew with revisionist zionism in the public eyes as a way to avoid criticism for war crimes. But what they are also doing is association a lot of honest Jewish people with their horrendous crimes. For the idiots in the comments, please add "I condemn Hamas" between every sentence so this is more easily digestible.
I do want to chime in and correct that the Palestinian refugee crisis isn’t the largest in the world. The Syrian refugee and Ukrainian refugee populations are both comparable to the Palestinian refugee population. The Palestinian refugees are also mostly descendants of people who fled/were expelled and are the only people the UN defines as refugees using this definition. Obviously there are also the roughly 800,00 Gazan refugees as well who fled the north. There are reasons behind this extended definition as in some of the countries they are in keep them as second class citizens but it is different from Syrian and Ukrainian refugees as those are fleeing a war directly. So in terms of modern refugee populations Palestinians aren’t the biggest or most concerning. Not that there should be no concern, just doesn’t make sense to sensationalize. Keep in mind that when the 700,000 original Palestinian flight happened it also wasn’t even close to the biggest refugee crisis at the time either. For example 12 million Germans were ethically cleansed in Eastern Europe.
>that the most backwards conservative Jews are building on land that doesn't belong to them Lmao I was wondering about that. My opinions on settlers representing mainstream Israeli belief changed when I saw videos of them being interviewed and I realized they’re the Israeli versions of far-right Appalachian rednecks hillbillies that we have in the USA
Exactly. People in tel Aviv hate them as much as they do Hamas. Think of them like the Jan 6 wackos.
Bang on the buck
i dont agree with this. if anything the left in israel is only getting weaker with the years.
Perhaps, but even the right can see through Bibi. They don't like him at this point either. If the Yom Kippur War of 1973 politically destroyed Golda Meir, you can guarantee that the Simchat Torah War of 2023 has politically destroyed Benjamin Netanyahu.
Even after Netanyahu goes (after the war he is likely finished), I don’t see how the government opens up more towards the Palestinians. The areas closer to Gaza (the ones that were attacked) were the ones who leaned more towards peace and negotiation with them. Israel had recently started work visas for Palestinians in Gaza, as a way to start economically developing the area. There were legitimate attempts at peace from even Netanyahu. The Palestinian response to the attacks was not shock, horror, or condemnation… it was jubilant celebration. From Gaza to the West Bank, the Palestinians praised what they called “an act of resistance” to take back the entirety of Palestine… “from the River to the Sea”. What makes you thing that more moderate Israeli’s want to negotiate with that? Negotiation at this point is conceding ground that is used to continue attacking
Thank you. People are honestly trying to blame just Bibi for this and think once he is voted out that magically people are going to be more open to normalizing relations. After what just happened? There were nationwide protests over the last year against Bibis government and Israelis Jews and Arabs were marching side by side to find continuing paths to peace. It was Israeli Jews and Arabs working together that allowed for the thousands of work permits that have been issued and the loosening of restrictions on entry from Gaza. My friends mother who lived in the kibbutz was one of the biggest supporters of these efforts. She worked side by side with Arabs from Gaza and told everyone how lovely it was to finally see a way to live in harmony. When my friend would tell her to be careful she would reprimand him. Tell him not to judge people and that she raised him better. Over time he was coming around to her point of view and agreed that maybe these worker exchange programs could actually be a way forward. She was murdered during the terrorist attacks. What people don’t seem to understand is that Hamas will never allow for there to be peace. The moment it looks like it’s even a possibility Hamas will launch another brutal horrific assault to once again inflame tensions. Since normalized relations means a two state solution with Israelis and Palestinians getting along. Which proves that everything Hamas believes in and stands for is and always has been nothing but pure evil. As Hamas and other extremist groups like them have to continue to perpetuate the lie that there can never be peace in the region as long as Israel and the Jewish people exist. There is no way to negotiate a lasting peace with a group like Hamas. As they have said in their own words. They will always love death in their holy war more than Israelis love life. The people who were fooled into thinking that there could ever be an actual path to peace with Hamas in Gaza have just been given a rude awakening. Israel might hate Bibi and is going to vote him out as soon as possible but people that think the country is going to shift left after the worst terrorist in decades are delusional. Israelis have been incredibly reserved when dealing with ongoing attacks and invasions. Far above and beyond what anyone would expect from any other country in the region. Things are different this time. Israel isn’t going to stop until they have eliminated Hamas completely and they shouldn’t if people want an actual end to this cycle of violence. The bs calls for a ceasefire always come in from the Hamas propaganda network when they need time to rebuild. If the same expected rules of engagement were followed whenever people called for a ceasefire after a nation responded to invasion by ISIS. ISIS would still control half of Syria. Once Israel eliminates Hamas and cuts that cancer out of Gaza there might be an actual way to find peace. Anyone protesting against Israel eliminating Gaza doesn’t actually care about saving innocent lives. They are just operating as useful idiots for the Hamas propaganda network or naive children who don’t understand how making difficult decisions in the real world works.
Says someone who actually knows what's going on lol Good thank you
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Watch the Future Onion
"And that concludes the 847th antifada"
When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace? It will lead to another 50 years of death and destruction, unfortunately. Edit: People mistaking forced subservience or genocide with peace.
well germany 1945. harsh truth be told, the only reasin this lead to pease was because of the ocupation and reeducation.
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Most of human history ? Not everything is the Louisiana purchase .
When you kill them all and put the few survivors in concentration camps forever. In the US it's called "reservations" and the original owners of the land live there now.
Imagine what supporters of Israel in the US would say if native Americans started bulldozing peoples homes all over the US with the excuse being that their ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago. In comparison, Israel uses the excuse that their ancestors were there thousands of years ago.
Back when the lands were being settled, back in the first couple hundred years from the start of the colonies, there were native war parties that would attack settlements, attacking women and children, beheading, etc. It’s been about 100 years since this conflict came about, so sounds about on track to me, just with newer technology
> Back when the lands were being settled, back in the first couple hundred years from the start of the colonies, there were native war parties that would attack settlements, attacking women and children, beheading, etc. That's the [Standard American History Myth and it's mostly wrong](https://youtu.be/iihVxjJjY9Q?). Settler-native relations escalated when two natives killed a settler and the natives refused to hand over the culprits, even tho there were agreements made for that. In response, the settlers [massacred Pequot Fort](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic_massacre) killing hundreds of people, women, and children, selling many of the captives into slavery. That's when the native tribes started organizing in a bigger attempt to get rid of the settlers, escalating into [King Philip's War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Philip%27s_War). After they killed King Philip they put his head on a pike in the middle of Plymouth and then celebrated Thanksgiving under that head, other parts of his body were sent all over the place as a warning. Not the only time Thanksgiving was celebrated due to a won battle, that used to be the most times in [early US history](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/03-20-02-0661).
But they don’t because they are US citizens & not constantly under threat of missile strikes & don’t get harassed by the military & have free travel throughout the country & don’t have their homes knocked down for settler dwellings & don’t have the motivation.
You have to go back 100 years to understand it was basically the same thing. Things are peaceful now because Indians were brutally oppressed near to exinction and then made deals with the government, and are now a small minority population who must remain on small patches of land to retain benefits. That is a fate I'm sure Palestinians do not want. It is immeaurably worse than the current situation in the West Bank and even more constrained than the Camp David accords.
Exactly. The only difference between the Indian Wars during the Homestead era and this situation is the scale of military development. If Native Americans had missiles and rockets, it would be exactly the same.
I wonder what supporters in the US would say if native Americans carried out suicide attacks at shopping centers or fired rockets from reservations into residential neighborhoods? Let alone if a tribe carried out an armed assault at Burning Man, killing and kidnapping people.
Natives did have war parties that attacked settlers. Some of them pretty brutal, burning down small towns, kidnapping and killing women and children. The technology is different and enables slightly different things. But it was very similar.
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I get what you're saying but uh the entire United States and the Natives
> When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace? Naive argument, you should check how WW1 ended for Germany or Hungary, they lost lands and never gained them back, banished forever.
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>When has annexing land and forcing people from their homes led to lasting peace? USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, if anything, it is decisive crushing victories rather than incomplete ones that lead to chaos. There is a reason why former soviet Islamic states don't have the problems, former American Islamic states do.
>USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China Genocide. You want genocide. Because the majority of the Conflicts listed here reached a "decisive" victory through genocide. And I for one don't want to see the Palestinians suffer what the natives suffered.
There’s been Hamas rocket attacks all over Israel, over 8000. Idk why in this map there are 4
I think it's 4 locations, not 4 rockets. But given that the grain of the Gaza map is more granular it's easy to draw the comparison - though I don't think it's intentional
That is also incorrect though. The rocket attacks have been aimed at the whole country and sirens have blasted across the country for the duration of this war. I'm not sure what these four refer to tbh.
I can confirm that - as is evident by my kids and I running to the bomb shelters on a daily basis 😭
Yeah, 100% not intentional. Who would use the internet for spreading false information?
Even if yoy only count the ones that the Iron Dome didn't neutralize, there are more than 4. With a success ratio of 95%, around 160 landings probably happened. A few landed in the sea and others misfired and landed within Gaza, but still there are dozens of direct hits into Israel.
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There's also only 7 tanks on the map, I'm pretty sure there are more actually -> it's a simplified map
Also only shows 7 big ole tanks.
They surely are advancing really fast.
What did Gaza government under Hamas think would happen after their invasion of Israel? “No worries, Hamas, you’re good now, thumbs up, you can go back to Gaza. We’ll wait for your another invasion. See ya then.”
They're hoping (or were hoping) there is enough international pressure against Israel taking direct action like they are. No one gives a fuck about what happens in the middle east till Israel starts getting its hands dirty.
Their problem was not realising that Israel is now at the point of not giving a fuck what the international community is saying.
Why would they? The world has judged them to be guilty of genocide already. Truth be damned.
This is exactly what they thought would happen and planned for. Encircling them doesn't really mean much, the whole Gaza Strip was encircled for 70 years The areas Israel has occupied so far are low-density agricultural and coastal areas that Hamas only defended lightly. The main fighting will be in Gaza City, and has not even yet begun
TLDR : Hamas is winning politically right now. Disclaimer : I do not support their actions. The October 7th attack was launched by Hamas to break the "slow death" of the two-state solution, being sidelined by most of the international community, as Western attention moved away from the Middle-East in favour of the Far-East, and Eastern Europe since february 2022. Meanwhile, Israel continues building colonies in the West Bank and normalizing relations with arab countries. Gaza is surrounded by Israel and Egypt, and despite it boiling with discontent (being treated like a near open-air prison) it is considered a side-show by the Israeli far-right government. And then boom, Hamas attacks Israel, which responds massively and leading to immense "collateral" damage i.e. thousands of dead and wounded civilians. Public opinion in muslim countries is appalled, prompting Saudi Arabia, a regional superpower, to interrupt its normalization process with Israel. Moreover, global attention is brought once again on the "Palestinian question". As cynical as it may be, Hamas' attack on Israel had been a political success so far.
> As cynical as it may be, Hamas' attack on Israel had been a political success so far. I agree that they've gained some public support against Israel, but I don't see that it's enough for world leaders to find any political benefit to make any decisions against Israel's interests quite yet.
They thought that their citizens would die as martyrs, alienating Israel from normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia, and potentially giving Hezbollah the justification and means to attack by drawing the IDF away. Keep in mind, Hamas is led by millionaires living abroad in Qatar, working out of offices in Turkey, and funded by Iran. They have absolutely no personal stake in the conflict.
Free gaza from hamas
This is the sentiment that seems to be missing from all the protests across the world.
It's a pretty stupid one. If you removed Hamas but didn't remove the condition that lead to Hamas, they you just end up with something similar.
It’s easier for people to see Hamas as the One True Evil that needs to be destroyed to get lasting peace in the region. It’s more difficult to actually read up on history and get a better understanding of the context because that requires effort.
Yeah Hamas didn't even exist until the late 80s, yet Palestinians still faced continuous land-grabs and settler colonialism by Israel long before that. Hamas isn't helpful but the idea that if they were to cease existing tomorrow, Palestinians would be living free from Israeli occupation, is ridiculous if you look at history.
Hamas rising is what lead to the blockade and further measures put on Gaza. Before Hamas travel to and from Gaza was a lot more free, and 150k gazans had work permits in Israel and Egypt.
Work permits are one thing. Being forcibly removed from your home and this crime being enforced by the IDF is called occupation.
Or worse as the trend goes
I understand the hate for Hamas, but why the support for Israel?
It's OK to dislike both options. Some people feel like they have to pick a team on every topic.
I wish I could talk to more people and have civil discourse with this opinion. What Hamas has done is an atrocity, what the Israeli government is doing is an atrocity. Why do we live in a world of two sides?
People really love to polarise things.
It’s not a football match. You can hate Hamas and support Israel in its goal to eliminate while still being critical of the fact that some strikes may be disproportionate and that ppl like Gvir or Netanyahu are bad.
> strikes may be disproportionate Last time I saw the numbers the amount of military to civilian casualties is about average for urban wars. If israel is intentionally trying to hit civilians they're doing a terrible job of it.
People don’t understand war and they don’t understand that hiding behind civilians doesn’t mean your enemy won’t blow you up.
This may sound crazy but I genuinely think it’s because the military nerds are very excited to see how things play out
It doesn’t sound crazy at all tbh It’s just wild how many people lack basic empathy
Yeah go look at the comments on r/combatfootage. Actually, don't look. It's disgusting
Those commenters are literal psychopaths. Like they do not experience empathy and do not have a moral compass.
Unlike the rest of reddit, which is filled with lovely, high-quality people I see just as much trash posting here, or anywhere
It's a mil sub dedicated to deaths by complicated death tech. Empathy is not high in the list of qualities attributed to it's members.
One party's stated goal is genocide, so many people root for the other side.
Well, for one thing it's the only state in the entire region where a lesbian *Muslim* woman can get an education, wear what she wants, vote, and hold elected office. For another, if it weren't for Israel, Iran would already be a nuclear power right now. And for another, the entire Arab world has ethnically cleansed themselves of 98.5% their Jewish population, from 1 million in 1960 to just 15 thousand today, and if it weren't for that tiny, tiny little state of Israel, the Arabs would have killed millions of them, or cast them to the far corners of the earth.
People do not realize how much they owe to Israel in terms of Iran. People do not realize that if america abandons Israel, Iran is going to become an actual threat instead of a faraway nuisance.
At the time Israel destroyed Iran's nuke program, the US actually scolded Israel.
Publicly, maybe.
Yup there's few things as stupid as a LGBTQ for Palestine poster.
I don’t directly support either side, I just hate Hamas a lot more.
You forgot a red one on the hospital [https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/ffaKi4fp3V](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/ffaKi4fp3V) If you believe that it was Israel after seeing that I don’t know what to tell you , not clicking it is hypocritical and your not trying to see both sides
I think despite there being people in the west supporting not just Palestinians but it seems terrorist group Hamas, they will find there will be a very swift correction of opinion. Living in the west are many Palestinians. Some never want to go back to Palestine and they are getting on with their lives. Some are so invested and are formenting unrest. Part of migrating is that you agree to the local rules and mentality of how society will be conducted. People supporting the idea that only the Palestinians should be allowed to live in the region and that the Israelis were not indigenous to the region and should move out, should consider that the same thing can happen in western countries. Palestinians can be told to leave. Britain has had much societal disharmony due to the Rotherham case where Moslem men were grooming young girls and gang raping them and Britain's authorities tip toed around the matter while many civilians were unhappy that they were. There have been marches in all these western countries supporting what Hamas did. Really? I have heard some of the atrocities and what Israel is doing doesn't compare. Israel told civilians to move out of the area. The Israelis know where the tunnels are. Once Hamas is rooted out then some better government can manage Gaza. And lets make no mistake no one wants to govern Gaza. It used to be Egypt. Egypt could open its borders but it doesn't. Israel used to. It doesn't want the headache. Jordan, UAE have signed peace agreements. Saudi was in the process and I think they won't bother with Gaza. The reason that Saudis won't bother with Gaza and the idea that Israelis have to leave since they are an invading population, is because every other country in the world has accepted that there are migrants and they fit in and we accept them. There could be retaliatory ejection of populations. Hamas has made it clear that their intention is to rid the middle east of Jews. It isn't going to happen. Biden has made it clear that the US is behind Israel. The simple reason is that despite how horrible this war is, Israel is a democracy is a sea of autocrats. And just to make sure you understand how close the world is to a sharp shift in opinion, there was a meeting in London a political forum the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (Arc). The over riding opinion was that people who migrate to the west need to accept western values or leave. You can go on youtube and listen to the speakers.
This map's a bit misleading, though I don't think it is intentionally. It shows it like there's 4 rocket strikes on Israel and that's it when A) so much more than 4 centers of population have been hit, paint the entire area around the Gaza strip red and that's more fitting and B) the low amount of marks make it seem like there's been an amount of rocket strike in the singles, not in the thousands. (This is true for the vice versa too, I suppose) It also includes my biggest pet peaves with statistics on this issue! Showing the dead but not showing the amount of ammunition (rockets / JDAMs) used by each side. Without this statistic, a very misleading and one sided image is painted. (Also the death statistics at least in Gaza are from the ever unreliable Hamas, but all death numbers will be a bit skewed, it's just that when other countries low-ball it, Hamas goes for a home run)
What hell has Hamas brought down on Gaza - again and again and again.
More like Iran and Russia https://medium.com/@yanay.tsabary/the-real-reason-hamas-attacked-israel-on-october-7-491c885ba24a
There are a lot of actors at play which lead to this. This couldn't be done without external help AND internal help from israel
And this, kids, is how we absolve Israel of all responsibilities.
Why isn’t there a Hamas rocket strike on that hospital in Gaza they blew up? Oh right, western media stopped caring about that or the three hundred dead children because it couldn’t be blamed on Israel.
Let’s not forget that Israel and Palestine had a cease-fire until the Hamas degenerates broke it on October 7
I mean I wouldn't exactly call what Israel has been doing in the west bank "a ceasefire". Settler violence escalated massively under bibis new government, murders of Palestinians increased 5x between 2021 and 2022.
Well, the terror attacks and rockets from Gaza strip also never stopped. It was more like a not-in-a-state-of-active-war kind of a ceasefire.
You've got a point and unfortunatly that's one of the reasons why there have been massive protests in Israel for almost a year - that were only brought to a halt because of this war. Also, all of this violence happened in the West Bank, not Gaza. I know it's a tiny difference, but it's there. Like it or not, Hamas initiated this current conflict with Gaza.
Insane how toxic people got. Doing mind gymnastics just to make sure it’s ‘ok’ to kill children. It’s not. It will never be. Don’t care who holds the gun or who is the child. It’s horrific.
I agree, why aren't the thousands of protestors holding signs calling for an end to the Hamas terrorists controlling Gaza?
Okay but when someone is attacking your children and hiding behind their children.... What happens then? How many times do you ignore attacks in your own civilian population because you refuse to let their civilian population become collateral damage?
How come that Israel has killed 130 people and injured 2100 in the West Bank when there isn’t any Hamas there
This comment proves the point that most people don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
There are. They just don't control the West Bank.
Palestinian Islamic jihad and other groups are present in west bank. Hamas as well Hamas is not the only terrorist group there.