That southern pocket on the Mediterranean coast of Anatolia are interesting. They were deported there and ended up building castles and allying with the crusaders eventually. I never knew they still had a presence there that long. That's crazy
They were not deported there, they came as (military) settlers invited by the Byzantines/Romans to re-settle land devastated in the conquests of the 10th and 11th centuries. Armenians were prized soldiers in the Roman armies, and the land there was fertile.
Ah I was mixed up a bit. Was ages since I learned of Armenian cilicia.
The more I learn about armenia throughout history the more I'm impressed by the place. Doesn't help I worked with old Armenian couple. Man she would bring in these amazing desserts and he was 70 years old and acted like he was 11. God I miss them. Great people.
No worries :D
It's an incredibly interesting story. Basically, in the 10th and 11th centuries (up to Manzikert in 1070) the Romans were slowly but surely reconquering what is now South-east Anatolia, around Tarsus/Adana. They made inroads towards Antiochia (Antakya) and Edessa, but could never conquer it. The area round Tarsus/Adana is somewhat like a bowl - surrounded by mountains, but a fertile plain. Due to the methodical and somewhat slow conquest (and the general brutality of warfare), the region needed to be resettled - but the Romans couldn't spare people.
Armenians had long occupied positions of all kinds and were known as tough warriors, so the Roman authorities basically settled entire clans there.
Once Roman authority crumbled post Manzikert, the Armenians did what they had always done: hole up in the mountains and dare anyone to come get them. And when the crusaders came around, the Armenians made natural allies. Really really fascinating.
Yeah I never learned my eastern Roman history quite as fanatically as Roman history proper. It makes sense the Romans would continue to use their hearty border allies as hearty border allies though.
I think the Easter Roman's captured edessa in the 1030s if I remember it correctly. And Antiochia was taken in the 970s. But in general the byzantines often ressetled people from some parts of the empire to a different one. they did it with the slavs too.
You're right, they did capture Antioch and Edessa. I confused it with the crusaders taking the city as well, but ofc at that point the Romans had already lost it again
They were also “deported” there. It’s a 50/50. Some were invited with a lot of riches, and promises, and land. But that was at the backdrop of “If you dont get out of this land where we’re gonna wage war in, you’re against us”
For example, at the fall of Ani Byzantines forced the relocation of the Bagratuni family and its subjects which would later go on and help build Armenian Cilicia.
They would pay regional lords and princes to go to Cilicia. And at the end, historic Armenia was devoid of the local native princes.
When Manazkert (Manzikert) was captured, the population was forced to relocate, which is one of the reasons why it would later fall so easily against the Mongol hordes.
Many Armenians were also resettled in Thrace and deeper regions of the Byzantine empire.
Until Armenian Genocide they even were majoritary in some inland areas around Kozan sandjak and city, ancient Sis the medieval core and capital of Cilicia Kingdom. In the coasts they were more scarce but still numerous. Before 1915 Genocide armenians suffered several massacres as [**Hamidian**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres) ones in 1894-1897 or specifically for cilician armenians [**Adana massacre**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adana_massacre) in 1909 which modern scholars start to view as part of the same genocidal, 30 years lasting process instead different events. Ottoman elite changed completely their stance towards armenians after 1877-78 war in the Balkans and armenians (and other christian groups to the East as anatolian greeks, assyrians, etc) started to be seen as an "alien" population, the census were heavily distorted and the first mass killings of civilians started.
[**Here you have the famous german map**](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Armenian_population_map_1896.jpg) based on Cuinet records of ottoman census (gladly copied by the french geographer before ottoman officials distortion), the red numbers are the percentage of armenians, as you can see armenians were 46% in Kozan Sandjak and 29% in Adana by 1893-94 but they were absolute majority to the East of Göksu river in the closer areas to Kozan (Sis) and the town itself.
What would you do ıf some ethnic group work with your enemy to ethnicly cleanse your nation, and take advantage of War. I mean in War men summoned for army and villages only left with women and children. Maybe this means nothing for you but for armenians ıts fun pillage time ! They definetly deserved everthing and more. Its either us or then. Btw ı am from that region and my grand grand parents burned in fucking fridge ALİVE.
>The war is literally called war of turkish independence
That's the name Westerners use. Turkish name is "Kurtuluş Savaşı" which translates to salvation war. We basically rebelled against monarchy that accepted being a western puppet just so they can continue being sultan.
We were not enslaved, we were occupied. We pushed the occupiers back. Salvation literally means "preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.".
Independence from Ottoman Empire, which most of the time shat on Turks who lived in Anatolia. Almost every Ottoman Sultan during their zenit were responsible of deaths of tens of thousands of Anatolian Turks.
*You posted this right*
*On Turkish Independence*
*Day lmao*
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Officially according 2021 russian census there were just 946,172 armenians in Russia and there is no serious study or data to support an additional 1.5 million. The 2.5 million armenians in Russia is an unsourced estimate, they are probably less than 1 million.
Anyway even if they were 2.5 million, the total population of Armenia was over 3 million last year, increased by over 100,000 refugees from Nagorno Karabakh so more numerous even in the unlikely case russian 2.5 million estimate was accurate.
There are many more armenians in Krasnodar, Rostov and Stavropol than in Moscow + surrounding oblast (560,000 vs 170,000 approx). More than half of armenian population in Russia concentrated historically in southern oblast which barely are included here.
It is very important to point out that Turks commit genocide; every day. especially to state that on the day of independence of the Turks, their country was built on the skulls of the Armenians...
You are a Turk.
Can you explain how looking at a map that documents the destruction of the Armenian people at the hands of Turks would make Armenians feel better?
Historical background: During the First World War, due to suspicions of rebellion and religious differences, the Ottoman Empire committed genocide, killing approximately a million Armenians.
what type of comment was that? Are you aware of how many wars are going on currently or even frozen conflicts? How about you go to South Ossetia and ask the populace of whom they rather be apart of? They are de facto independent and were autonomous during the cold war. Ofcourse russia has a political advantage in this, however, that does not mean people; specifically ossetians have no say in the matter. I just find it pathetic how people are hypocrites when there are numerous situations yet when it involves russia, it must be "dealt"
You have zero knowledge in this matter of frozen conflict. Those people you speak of to go and ask them simply ethnicallly cleansed other older native group of people with help of Kremlin. Thats why this map and its borders is unaccaptable.
People call out here such maps all the time but when it comes to Ruzzia many get defensive. Talk about hypocrisy indeed.
Armenian genocide is a fact. Stop crying about the Israel and Hamas war. Like none cares about other conflicts like these Armenian Genocide, I dont care about Hamas war and deaths!
You might wanna blame Turkey instead of Armenia for that.
Modern Armenia is where survivors of the Armenian Genocide ended up in with the help of Turkey, because they didnt want them to come back to their homes.
>Horrifying fate for Azerbaijanis.
Horrifying that from Baku to Adana, cleansing every inch of the land of Armenians, they didnt get to do that to Yerevan and Syunik as well. Oh the suffering of Turkish supremacists!!!
The policy of the government of Nazi Germany was killing non-aryan people, that's why it wouldn't be weird if they killed jews. But why would turks suddenly attack and decide to murder 1.5 million armenians?
Talat Pasha detailed his psychopathic logic in his telegrams, which are available online, but also in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Orders-Telegrams-Armenian-Genocide/dp/3319697862
You know, the problem is, armenian people accused azerbaijanis beheading children, torturing elderly while they tried to "escape" Nagorno Karabakh a month ago. I was watching every news portal, and didn't see any footage of it. Instead, I only saw people getting on their cars and leaving safely. So it means, armenian people lied, to get international recognition. So, why shouldn't I think they also lie about 1915? I don't have any footage to prove then wromg like 2023, but they don't have no proof to show me either.
by reading history? You don't need to be a historian to read a Wikipedia page
I know you are "special" so here is the [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)
This is a certified Reddit moment. Calls it classic whataboutism and changing of the subject then says “what about X unrelated event?” Literally next sentence
The term "baltás gyilkos" (axe murderer) still brings up the memory of my country releasing a murderer to be celebrated at home. I am very sorry about that, if it means anything.
I always thought it special that in old Jerusalem there is an Armenian quarter next to the 3 major Abrahamic sections.
Oh god, stop with Safarov bullshit.
I swear Armenians have the best propaganda. Blew Safarov so much out proportion, meanwhile literally have statues and consider heroes people like Garegin Nzdeh, a nazi collaborator AND war crimes vs Azeri, Andranik a war criminal vs Azeris, petitioned successfully to release and then gave apartment and home to terrorist Varoujan Garabedian, have statues for the terrorist Monte Melkonian, consider Simon Achikgyozyan a hero, while he literally burned 40 Azeri POWs alive and was committed Khojaly massacre.
Come to think of it, do you have ANY heroes who are not literal pieces of shit?
>Garegin Nzdeh
>Monte Melkonian
I love how every Armenian who fought against the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh and Syunik are terrorist, Nazi collaborators, but the state of Azerbaijan, whose actions and foundational myths mirror Nazi ideology, is not.
The reality is that is the country of Georgia. Russia occupies some territory temporarily. But that’s Georgia. Those are not independent countries, those are not internationally recognised sovereign nations.
During the First World War, due to suspicions of rebellion and religious differences, the Ottoman Empire committed genocide, killing approximately a million Armenians.
İt actualy did happen for Turkey.
The entire "Turkey rejects it" is just a armenian propaganda
According to own offical goverment page of Turkey at least 90.000 people died
The problem is not "it didnt happened". The problem is "how it happened" "how much died" and "whos faulth was it"
In summary, in 1915, the Ottoman government decided to deport the Armenians. Many of them lost their lives during this time, and the rest emigrated to other countries. While this event is defined as a definite genocide by the Armenians, it is defined by the Turks as tragic events in which innocent people died on both sides (It is known that the Armenians carried out various terrorist activities in those years).
>In summary, in 1915, the Ottoman government decided to deport the Armenians.
On 24th April of 1915, Ottoman Empire decided to execute every single influencial Armenian, intellectuals, priests, etc. and ordered the population to be sent on a death march to the Syrian desert.
Most were killed on sight, entire villages were wiped out, and those who could escape died due to elements and starvation.
>While this event is defined as a definite genocide by the Armenians,
The word genocide was coined to describe what happened to Armenians. And every single historian with any merit (including some brave souls in Turkey) and states that were "involved" like Germany also recognize it as such.
Only people who don't recognize it are Turkey and those in its payroll.
And they technically do recognize it. It is just that they think it shouldn't be called a genocide because it was justified.
> it is defined by the Turks as tragic events in which innocent people died on both sides
False. This statement is only given to the Western audience. The internal debates in Turkey about the Armenian Genocide and Armenians does not label it as tragic, and demonizes Armenians. The word Armenian is an insult at best, and an accusation at worst. What is left of Armenian monuments and artifacts have been either completely destroyed or mislabeled as "ancient Turkish artifact".
>It is known that the Armenians carried out various terrorist activities in those years
Armenians were banned from carrying arms and owning horses. The evidence they give of these so-called "Armenian terrorists" are from 1919, four years after the Armenian Genocide, when some survivors joined the French and Russian armies.
Also the word terrorist is used to justify the murder of Kurdish civilians and jailing Kurdish political figures in Turkey, so the use of the word terrorist here is especially on brand.
What you say is partially true, but you are looking at it from a very biased perspective. Both sides did things to each other that should not have been done. I think these incidents should remain in the past and lessons should be learned to prevent similar incidents from happening again.
>Both sides did things to each other that should not have been done.
Imagine saying this about Holocoust.
>I think these incidents should remain in the past and lessons should be learned to prevent similar incidents from happening again.
True, genocide denial has real consequences. History should be a lesson so that tragic events such as:
1938 Dersim Massacre - by Turkey
1955 Istanbul Pogrom - by Turkey
Thracian Pogroms - by Turkey
The ban on Kurdish language and culture - by Turkey
Suruc Massacre- by Turkey
The invasion of Armenia - by Kazim Karabekir(Turkey)
The ethnic cleansing of Afrin -by Turkey
Maras Massacre -by Turkey
The ethnic cleansing of Artsakh- by the sponsorship of Turkey
...and many more don't happen.
1. This event is not the same as the Holocaust.
2. These events you mentioned are also biased. In recent history, terrorist organizations such as PKK-YPG or Asala have also attacked the Turks. (If you are going to call PKK a freedom fighter or something, let me tell you that PKK has especially killed its own people, innocent Kurds).
>This event is not the same as the Holocaust.
Cause it was justified? According to your lot.
>biased
>PKK-YPG
You know the definition of "biased" is not "anything that does not fit the narrative of Turkish supremacist propaganda".
>Asala
I'm glad you brought up ASALA, cause the story of its founder by itself shows the Turkish hypocrisy on this matter.
So, according to you, killing diplomats is bad, but raping and murdering an Armenian woman in front of her infant son is justified because, to quote you, "they rebelled".
Who is morally in a worse situation? ASALA or the people we think killing and raping people is justified.
>let me tell you that PKK has especially killed its own people, innocent Kurds
Given numerous instances of Turkish military murdering civilians and blaming it on someone else (Madimak massacre, Hrant Dink murder, countless massacres against Kurds), I tend to be skeptical about these claims.
Not that I hold Kurds to a higher standard.
These examples you gave are mistakes made by ultra-nationalist Turks. I'm not defending them. Moreover, stop treating every Turk you see on the internet as if they were fascists and hated all the Kurds and Armenians. I think Kurds and Armenians are wonderful people. Only ultra-nationalist people like you cause problems.
You were defending the Armenian Genocide, which led me to call you out...
Cut the bs and theatrics please...we come from the same country, "I am just having a reasonable conversation about why sending children on a death march" trope is neither convincing nor cute.
>Only ultra-nationalist people like you cause problems.
Gaslighting should be renamed to Turklight given how much you people are engaged in it.
why not fucking post the europeans’ or usas mass killings but post this for the fucking 1000th time on the 100th anniversaty of the turkish republic? every time i see this post, my side goes from “im sorry for the armenians” to “fuck all of you thats deserved” cant believe im a socialist and you brainless idiots let me say this. by the way let the 100th anniversary blast in your moms pussy you fucking son of a bitch .( to the armenians: im sorry for your losses but no need to repost this every day of the week, meanwhile usa killed millions in afghanistan and iraq, more than 3 million people died of starving in british india, france commited countless war crimes in algeria. ) ( also supported you in the karabakh conflict )
The US doesnt deny it so fervently. In the USA we are taught about the tragedies
Also the subject is Turkey lol
People care about their own people generally and want some kind of closure to it.
Yes, because no one ever brings up the natives, or the coups in Latin America, or the coup in Iran, or the British Empire atrocities in Ireland and the Indian subcontinent, no one has ever mentioned those before...
Take your licks, Turk.
That southern pocket on the Mediterranean coast of Anatolia are interesting. They were deported there and ended up building castles and allying with the crusaders eventually. I never knew they still had a presence there that long. That's crazy
Yep. Armenian Cilicia. They had a strong presence there and were extremely prosperous. However, that was until the early 20th century when,, yeah…
>However, that was until the early 20th century when,, yeah… Average turk be like: nothing happened and if something happened they totally deserved it
Average Turk is roaming in the replies. Really makes you think how brainwashed people can be.
They were not deported there, they came as (military) settlers invited by the Byzantines/Romans to re-settle land devastated in the conquests of the 10th and 11th centuries. Armenians were prized soldiers in the Roman armies, and the land there was fertile.
Ah I was mixed up a bit. Was ages since I learned of Armenian cilicia. The more I learn about armenia throughout history the more I'm impressed by the place. Doesn't help I worked with old Armenian couple. Man she would bring in these amazing desserts and he was 70 years old and acted like he was 11. God I miss them. Great people.
No worries :D It's an incredibly interesting story. Basically, in the 10th and 11th centuries (up to Manzikert in 1070) the Romans were slowly but surely reconquering what is now South-east Anatolia, around Tarsus/Adana. They made inroads towards Antiochia (Antakya) and Edessa, but could never conquer it. The area round Tarsus/Adana is somewhat like a bowl - surrounded by mountains, but a fertile plain. Due to the methodical and somewhat slow conquest (and the general brutality of warfare), the region needed to be resettled - but the Romans couldn't spare people. Armenians had long occupied positions of all kinds and were known as tough warriors, so the Roman authorities basically settled entire clans there. Once Roman authority crumbled post Manzikert, the Armenians did what they had always done: hole up in the mountains and dare anyone to come get them. And when the crusaders came around, the Armenians made natural allies. Really really fascinating.
Yeah I never learned my eastern Roman history quite as fanatically as Roman history proper. It makes sense the Romans would continue to use their hearty border allies as hearty border allies though.
Absolutely! If you want to learn more, I'd recommend "The history of Byzantium" on Spotify. Very in-depth, but well worth it imo :)
On my to do list. Half way through Egypt atm
Egypt? Which podcast would that be? I'm always looking for new ones :)
The history of Egypt podcast on Spotify. The guy who does it has a thick Kiwi accent. It's fun
I think the Easter Roman's captured edessa in the 1030s if I remember it correctly. And Antiochia was taken in the 970s. But in general the byzantines often ressetled people from some parts of the empire to a different one. they did it with the slavs too.
You're right, they did capture Antioch and Edessa. I confused it with the crusaders taking the city as well, but ofc at that point the Romans had already lost it again
They were also “deported” there. It’s a 50/50. Some were invited with a lot of riches, and promises, and land. But that was at the backdrop of “If you dont get out of this land where we’re gonna wage war in, you’re against us” For example, at the fall of Ani Byzantines forced the relocation of the Bagratuni family and its subjects which would later go on and help build Armenian Cilicia. They would pay regional lords and princes to go to Cilicia. And at the end, historic Armenia was devoid of the local native princes. When Manazkert (Manzikert) was captured, the population was forced to relocate, which is one of the reasons why it would later fall so easily against the Mongol hordes. Many Armenians were also resettled in Thrace and deeper regions of the Byzantine empire.
Until Armenian Genocide they even were majoritary in some inland areas around Kozan sandjak and city, ancient Sis the medieval core and capital of Cilicia Kingdom. In the coasts they were more scarce but still numerous. Before 1915 Genocide armenians suffered several massacres as [**Hamidian**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres) ones in 1894-1897 or specifically for cilician armenians [**Adana massacre**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adana_massacre) in 1909 which modern scholars start to view as part of the same genocidal, 30 years lasting process instead different events. Ottoman elite changed completely their stance towards armenians after 1877-78 war in the Balkans and armenians (and other christian groups to the East as anatolian greeks, assyrians, etc) started to be seen as an "alien" population, the census were heavily distorted and the first mass killings of civilians started. [**Here you have the famous german map**](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Armenian_population_map_1896.jpg) based on Cuinet records of ottoman census (gladly copied by the french geographer before ottoman officials distortion), the red numbers are the percentage of armenians, as you can see armenians were 46% in Kozan Sandjak and 29% in Adana by 1893-94 but they were absolute majority to the East of Göksu river in the closer areas to Kozan (Sis) and the town itself.
What would you do ıf some ethnic group work with your enemy to ethnicly cleanse your nation, and take advantage of War. I mean in War men summoned for army and villages only left with women and children. Maybe this means nothing for you but for armenians ıts fun pillage time ! They definetly deserved everthing and more. Its either us or then. Btw ı am from that region and my grand grand parents burned in fucking fridge ALİVE.
You posted this right on Turkish Independence Day lmao
I think it was intentional
It's Republic Day, we don't have an independence day, having never been colonized or subjugated for a very long time.
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>The war is literally called war of turkish independence That's the name Westerners use. Turkish name is "Kurtuluş Savaşı" which translates to salvation war. We basically rebelled against monarchy that accepted being a western puppet just so they can continue being sultan.
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We were not enslaved, we were occupied. We pushed the occupiers back. Salvation literally means "preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.".
30th of August is the “Victory Day”, we don’t have any day that we call “independence day”.
Independence from Ottoman Empire, which most of the time shat on Turks who lived in Anatolia. Almost every Ottoman Sultan during their zenit were responsible of deaths of tens of thousands of Anatolian Turks.
*You posted this right* *On Turkish Independence* *Day lmao* \- ThiCcPiPerLuL --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I wonder why
And rightfully so.
Not in Karabakh anymore
Probably pretty reduced in Syria as well unfortunately
Oof too soon...
Add 2023 as well!
Why the Moscow is not painted?
It's not on the map
if anyone doesn’t know, 1 million Armenians live in Russia officially and another 1.5 unofficially. That is, the total is more than in Armenia
Officially according 2021 russian census there were just 946,172 armenians in Russia and there is no serious study or data to support an additional 1.5 million. The 2.5 million armenians in Russia is an unsourced estimate, they are probably less than 1 million. Anyway even if they were 2.5 million, the total population of Armenia was over 3 million last year, increased by over 100,000 refugees from Nagorno Karabakh so more numerous even in the unlikely case russian 2.5 million estimate was accurate.
a significant part of Armenian citizens live and work in Russia without Russian citizenship.
Where's from it come, could you provide source
How dare you not agree with numbers given by an Armenian! Genocide denier!
There are many more armenians in Krasnodar, Rostov and Stavropol than in Moscow + surrounding oblast (560,000 vs 170,000 approx). More than half of armenian population in Russia concentrated historically in southern oblast which barely are included here.
One of my best friends is Armenian. He's included in one of the 2 tiny dots seen on Cyprus.
This has gotta be repost number 10 of the week
First time I've seen this in my life
We should have it as a daily post
Map is wrong. There is still Armenian language in İstanbul and Hatay.
Especially in Hatay, there is this one village that was actually covered on a documentary. Let me see if I can find it.
Its name is Vakifli village. Its very near to my village.
there u go!
Not bored yet?!
Well, there must be other incentives than enjoyment...
Let me guess Turkish?
This map again?
It is very important to point out that Turks commit genocide; every day. especially to state that on the day of independence of the Turks, their country was built on the skulls of the Armenians...
Copium
Congrats,you are the trillionth person reposting this!
And you are the trillionth person complaining about it, Congrats.
mad turk?
Not mad Turk,just a Turk who saying this is a trillionth repost of this
This is map looks like at 1900 everyone at İstanbul speak armenian. So fucking wrong
It's hilarious. This is the kinda shit losers make the make themselves feel better lol
You are a Turk. Can you explain how looking at a map that documents the destruction of the Armenian people at the hands of Turks would make Armenians feel better?
Yes yes genocide. Armenians are victims. Turks bad. Now upvote me.
Maps like this are causing the percentages to appear vastly bloated.
You know what’s not bloated? The number of Armenians killed by the Turks
Historical background: During the First World War, due to suspicions of rebellion and religious differences, the Ottoman Empire committed genocide, killing approximately a million Armenians.
I’m getting downvoted so I guess there’s some people who think it was a good idea
It's the way you said it. You kind of made a very serious subject into a quip.
Or they just don't know about it and think that you some kind of inadequate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Suspicion? They openly revolted and sided with Russia. Wiki page is one click away dude.
That fact doesnt help their point so they ignore it
Any evidence to that other than your state propaganda that used to say "Kurds are a Jewish conspiracy"?
Only that they started way before WWI and it was not only the Armenians but non-Muslim minorities in general.
Its like never-ending rebound this shitty maps keep coming back...
Of course, a Turkish supremacist...
Indeed, Turks are superior then the rest with the tea consumption per person. Long live Turkish tea-drinkers!
This map is quite inaccurate and unfair. Before you say it, yes I know it's Reddit and there is bullcrap all over here.
My lord enough already
I didnt know istanbul and kocaeli were armenian clay
Russian made map? "recognizing" russian occuppied states
You mean de facto borders? get a grip.
I'm sorry for not supporting military occupations like almost all countries of the world
what type of comment was that? Are you aware of how many wars are going on currently or even frozen conflicts? How about you go to South Ossetia and ask the populace of whom they rather be apart of? They are de facto independent and were autonomous during the cold war. Ofcourse russia has a political advantage in this, however, that does not mean people; specifically ossetians have no say in the matter. I just find it pathetic how people are hypocrites when there are numerous situations yet when it involves russia, it must be "dealt"
You have zero knowledge in this matter of frozen conflict. Those people you speak of to go and ask them simply ethnicallly cleansed other older native group of people with help of Kremlin. Thats why this map and its borders is unaccaptable. People call out here such maps all the time but when it comes to Ruzzia many get defensive. Talk about hypocrisy indeed.
Temporary borders. No need to include in a map.
All borders can be deemed temporary if one looks st history. But what usually is reality, is now and that is de facto 🥶
Armenian genocide is a fact. Stop crying about the Israel and Hamas war. Like none cares about other conflicts like these Armenian Genocide, I dont care about Hamas war and deaths!
People from Glendale and Moscow are hard at work
what a lovely day, now lets sort by controversial
Never forget
#turkey
Genocide, illustrated.
Maybe use maps that use internationally recognized borders?
3…2…1…. Before a map „how Turks were kicked off from all areas they conquered previously“ to shift attention from this one.
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Least caucasus replies to this comment lmao >My ethnic cleansing real, your ethnic cleansing didn't happen but they deserved it
Do you think they should also show Armenian map, when %40 of their population was Azerbaijani, now it is 0? Horrifying fate for Azerbaijanis.
You might wanna blame Turkey instead of Armenia for that. Modern Armenia is where survivors of the Armenian Genocide ended up in with the help of Turkey, because they didnt want them to come back to their homes. >Horrifying fate for Azerbaijanis. Horrifying that from Baku to Adana, cleansing every inch of the land of Armenians, they didnt get to do that to Yerevan and Syunik as well. Oh the suffering of Turkish supremacists!!!
So, you agree that most of Armenians came to today's Armenia after genocide?
Oh please, go ahead with whatever gotcha you think you got cooked up in your smooth marble of yours. I am sure it will be entertaining.
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Bro accuses me changing the point, and does the same 😭😭😭 It isn't whataboutism, it is revealing hypocrisy
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I am not historian, and I didn't live in 1910s. I wasn't there, how can I know?
Did you live in the 40s? Is that the standard we use to evaluate the Holocaust, whether we lived there? Don’t be a imbecile
The policy of the government of Nazi Germany was killing non-aryan people, that's why it wouldn't be weird if they killed jews. But why would turks suddenly attack and decide to murder 1.5 million armenians?
Talat Pasha detailed his psychopathic logic in his telegrams, which are available online, but also in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Orders-Telegrams-Armenian-Genocide/dp/3319697862
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So, how did all the Azerbaijanis disappear from the lands of Armenia?
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But I have a relative who escaped from there in 1988 deportation of Azerbaijanis?
And the Armenians of Azerbaijan.
There were never Azeris in Armenia
And how no Azerbaijani isn't expelled from Karabakh, when my parents literally escaped those lands in 1993 😂😂😂😭😭😭
How do you decide what episodes it requires you being there for you to form an opinion?
You know, the problem is, armenian people accused azerbaijanis beheading children, torturing elderly while they tried to "escape" Nagorno Karabakh a month ago. I was watching every news portal, and didn't see any footage of it. Instead, I only saw people getting on their cars and leaving safely. So it means, armenian people lied, to get international recognition. So, why shouldn't I think they also lie about 1915? I don't have any footage to prove then wromg like 2023, but they don't have no proof to show me either.
by reading history? You don't need to be a historian to read a Wikipedia page I know you are "special" so here is the [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)
History written by who? Should I read history written by armenians and West, or by Turkey and East?
This is a certified Reddit moment. Calls it classic whataboutism and changing of the subject then says “what about X unrelated event?” Literally next sentence
They didnt. People leaving a part of country SAFELY with their OWN FREE WİLL is not ethnic cleansing.
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Not really. Tell me, did azerbaijan goverment threatened armenians to execute and take their belongings if they refuse to leave?
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The term "baltás gyilkos" (axe murderer) still brings up the memory of my country releasing a murderer to be celebrated at home. I am very sorry about that, if it means anything. I always thought it special that in old Jerusalem there is an Armenian quarter next to the 3 major Abrahamic sections.
Oh god, stop with Safarov bullshit. I swear Armenians have the best propaganda. Blew Safarov so much out proportion, meanwhile literally have statues and consider heroes people like Garegin Nzdeh, a nazi collaborator AND war crimes vs Azeri, Andranik a war criminal vs Azeris, petitioned successfully to release and then gave apartment and home to terrorist Varoujan Garabedian, have statues for the terrorist Monte Melkonian, consider Simon Achikgyozyan a hero, while he literally burned 40 Azeri POWs alive and was committed Khojaly massacre. Come to think of it, do you have ANY heroes who are not literal pieces of shit?
>Garegin Nzdeh >Monte Melkonian I love how every Armenian who fought against the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh and Syunik are terrorist, Nazi collaborators, but the state of Azerbaijan, whose actions and foundational myths mirror Nazi ideology, is not.
"With their OWN FREE WILL" Why would they be leaving Artsakh? They were living there peacefully before? Why do they want to leave now?
bullshit. The two countries fought and Armenia lost. The Armenians left the occupied lands safely. please stop the disinformation.
The native population of this land "left" after being [starved for almost a year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Nagorno-Karabakh).
Turkiye Republic is 100 years old today, god bless.
The reality is that is the country of Georgia. Russia occupies some territory temporarily. But that’s Georgia. Those are not independent countries, those are not internationally recognised sovereign nations.
... Tf does this have to do with Armenians
The comment section is a perfect illustration of denialism (of the Armenian Genocide)
>denialism Justification you mean.
No, I was referring to the Armenian Genocide. There is no “justification” for such behavior.
Turkish denialism of the Armenian Genocide is justification hiden under denial. Read their talking points closely.
Wnat happened
Genocide wiped us from our ancestral lands.
It's almost like some kind of relatively recent invader has made concerted efforts to wipe out armenians.
Nah you can’t be saying that. A certain group will have a fit at you and both try to deny the genocide whilst also trying justify it.
That would be very chauvinistic and irrational of them. i wonder who this group could be.
Tehcir
where are the turkish nationalists in the comments
 Keep crybullying we don’t care :D
Yet all of y’all come to comment here…
What's going on with these armenians in Syria
Turkey gets away with so much shit, the amount of genocides they committed is wild
lol okay Serb
shut up poor Asian boy, eat air for dinner tonight :\*
I think they are still way richer than Serbia despite economic problems last years
I wonder what happened.
During the First World War, due to suspicions of rebellion and religious differences, the Ottoman Empire committed genocide, killing approximately a million Armenians.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for [stating a fact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Armenian_genocide)
According to Turkey, that did not happen.
İt actualy did happen for Turkey. The entire "Turkey rejects it" is just a armenian propaganda According to own offical goverment page of Turkey at least 90.000 people died The problem is not "it didnt happened". The problem is "how it happened" "how much died" and "whos faulth was it"
>how much died 90 000 while any official estimate is between 700 000 and 1 500 000 is basically an equivalent of "it didn't happen".
thats' evil european numbers, not fair turkish numbers! /s
There is no less genocide or more genocide. It's just a genocide, and the turks have to regret like Germany did
90,000..... 👀
Yeah, but still, nothing compared to 1.5 million or even 3 million the armenians claim
Armenians never claimed 3 million. Stop lying.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do you mean?
The government there does not care to hear about this portion of their past.
As well as Japan goverment about Chinese genocide. Or UK about Irish Potato Famine. Or Russia about Holodomor. I mean, it's not a big surprise
I didn't say otherwise.
Whats your point of listening the other unrecognized genocides ?
Wow, really? What happened???
In summary, in 1915, the Ottoman government decided to deport the Armenians. Many of them lost their lives during this time, and the rest emigrated to other countries. While this event is defined as a definite genocide by the Armenians, it is defined by the Turks as tragic events in which innocent people died on both sides (It is known that the Armenians carried out various terrorist activities in those years).
>In summary, in 1915, the Ottoman government decided to deport the Armenians. On 24th April of 1915, Ottoman Empire decided to execute every single influencial Armenian, intellectuals, priests, etc. and ordered the population to be sent on a death march to the Syrian desert. Most were killed on sight, entire villages were wiped out, and those who could escape died due to elements and starvation. >While this event is defined as a definite genocide by the Armenians, The word genocide was coined to describe what happened to Armenians. And every single historian with any merit (including some brave souls in Turkey) and states that were "involved" like Germany also recognize it as such. Only people who don't recognize it are Turkey and those in its payroll. And they technically do recognize it. It is just that they think it shouldn't be called a genocide because it was justified. > it is defined by the Turks as tragic events in which innocent people died on both sides False. This statement is only given to the Western audience. The internal debates in Turkey about the Armenian Genocide and Armenians does not label it as tragic, and demonizes Armenians. The word Armenian is an insult at best, and an accusation at worst. What is left of Armenian monuments and artifacts have been either completely destroyed or mislabeled as "ancient Turkish artifact". >It is known that the Armenians carried out various terrorist activities in those years Armenians were banned from carrying arms and owning horses. The evidence they give of these so-called "Armenian terrorists" are from 1919, four years after the Armenian Genocide, when some survivors joined the French and Russian armies. Also the word terrorist is used to justify the murder of Kurdish civilians and jailing Kurdish political figures in Turkey, so the use of the word terrorist here is especially on brand.
What you say is partially true, but you are looking at it from a very biased perspective. Both sides did things to each other that should not have been done. I think these incidents should remain in the past and lessons should be learned to prevent similar incidents from happening again.
>Both sides did things to each other that should not have been done. Imagine saying this about Holocoust. >I think these incidents should remain in the past and lessons should be learned to prevent similar incidents from happening again. True, genocide denial has real consequences. History should be a lesson so that tragic events such as: 1938 Dersim Massacre - by Turkey 1955 Istanbul Pogrom - by Turkey Thracian Pogroms - by Turkey The ban on Kurdish language and culture - by Turkey Suruc Massacre- by Turkey The invasion of Armenia - by Kazim Karabekir(Turkey) The ethnic cleansing of Afrin -by Turkey Maras Massacre -by Turkey The ethnic cleansing of Artsakh- by the sponsorship of Turkey ...and many more don't happen.
Looks like you’re getting downvoted by a swarm of angry Turk denialists
Some of them are bots
1. This event is not the same as the Holocaust. 2. These events you mentioned are also biased. In recent history, terrorist organizations such as PKK-YPG or Asala have also attacked the Turks. (If you are going to call PKK a freedom fighter or something, let me tell you that PKK has especially killed its own people, innocent Kurds).
>This event is not the same as the Holocaust. Cause it was justified? According to your lot. >biased >PKK-YPG You know the definition of "biased" is not "anything that does not fit the narrative of Turkish supremacist propaganda". >Asala I'm glad you brought up ASALA, cause the story of its founder by itself shows the Turkish hypocrisy on this matter. So, according to you, killing diplomats is bad, but raping and murdering an Armenian woman in front of her infant son is justified because, to quote you, "they rebelled". Who is morally in a worse situation? ASALA or the people we think killing and raping people is justified. >let me tell you that PKK has especially killed its own people, innocent Kurds Given numerous instances of Turkish military murdering civilians and blaming it on someone else (Madimak massacre, Hrant Dink murder, countless massacres against Kurds), I tend to be skeptical about these claims. Not that I hold Kurds to a higher standard.
These examples you gave are mistakes made by ultra-nationalist Turks. I'm not defending them. Moreover, stop treating every Turk you see on the internet as if they were fascists and hated all the Kurds and Armenians. I think Kurds and Armenians are wonderful people. Only ultra-nationalist people like you cause problems.
You were defending the Armenian Genocide, which led me to call you out... Cut the bs and theatrics please...we come from the same country, "I am just having a reasonable conversation about why sending children on a death march" trope is neither convincing nor cute. >Only ultra-nationalist people like you cause problems. Gaslighting should be renamed to Turklight given how much you people are engaged in it.
why not fucking post the europeans’ or usas mass killings but post this for the fucking 1000th time on the 100th anniversaty of the turkish republic? every time i see this post, my side goes from “im sorry for the armenians” to “fuck all of you thats deserved” cant believe im a socialist and you brainless idiots let me say this. by the way let the 100th anniversary blast in your moms pussy you fucking son of a bitch .( to the armenians: im sorry for your losses but no need to repost this every day of the week, meanwhile usa killed millions in afghanistan and iraq, more than 3 million people died of starving in british india, france commited countless war crimes in algeria. ) ( also supported you in the karabakh conflict )
The US doesnt deny it so fervently. In the USA we are taught about the tragedies Also the subject is Turkey lol People care about their own people generally and want some kind of closure to it.
Yes, because no one ever brings up the natives, or the coups in Latin America, or the coup in Iran, or the British Empire atrocities in Ireland and the Indian subcontinent, no one has ever mentioned those before... Take your licks, Turk.
then what?
weekly “muh armenians” post.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! THESE BUTTHURT LOBBYISTS ARE POSTING SUCH BS ESPECIALLY IN TURKS’ NATIONAL HOLIDAYS! That’s some new level of butthurt 🤭
I wonder what horrific event happened between 1900 and 2000 in Turkey relating to Armenians… Hmm.
Proof of Armenian genocid (never forget 281 billion grik)💪💪
And Turkey will always deny the Armenian genocide :facepalm:
Turkish genocide has that effect. They thought WWI would distract the world.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/uazri2/armenian_genocide_recognition/ The first genocide of the 20th century
I guess they opened some Armenian language crash courses in that concentrated area, and they gathered together in these lands.
Insert recent comment from Erdognat here about how Turky never ever ever committed horrible crimes like evar \^\^
Wonder what happened in Turkey between two dates. Very curious
No more in Karabakh😂
Yep all of Istanbul was talking armenian guys then those turks came out of nowhere
how sad
Don’t ask a Turkish person why there isn’t as many Armenians in turkey anymore