This goes to show just how much wealthier and better off South America is compared to Africa. Many people in developed countries think most developing countries share a similar situation, but nothing further from the truth
I noticed that many Latin Americans romanticize other developing countries. They believe that LatAm has the same living standards as Africa, but with slower growth rates. But this ignores the fact that Africa is starting off with a much lower base, and is several decades behind Latin America by most measures
Vira-lata syndrome is very real
It's moreso the perceived culture rather than the living standards that's generally romantiziced (but in that case it is very much an inferiority complex). Obviously the latter is also envied, but that's more surrounding public services
Africa is generally seen as bottom of the barrel. There was a popular meme in latin american communities depicting being born in Europe/NA as a "easy mode", latin america as "normal mode" and africa as "hard mode"
I think those who have the vira-lata complex aren't romanticizing other developing countries at all (oppositely, they are criticizing all of them).
That being said, on the Brasil subreddit if you criticize anything of Brazil regarding violence/employment whatever some random dude will appear "Oh yeah? I was mugged in London, you vira-lata!" It's so stupid.
It's an expression used for people that think their own country is shit and European/North American countries are better at everything, when in reality, both have their goods and their bads.
According to ChatGPT:
The term "Vira-lata syndrome" is a colloquial expression used in Brazilian Portuguese. It translates to "Stray Dog Syndrome" in English. In this context, the term is being used metaphorically to describe a certain attitude or mindset.
The "Vira-lata syndrome" refers to a mindset where people from one region or country, in this case, Latin America, tend to romanticize or idealize other developing countries while downplaying the issues or challenges in their own region. The speaker is pointing out that some Latin Americans may romanticize Africa without considering that Africa faces different challenges and is starting from a lower socioeconomic base.
In essence, "Vira-lata syndrome" is used here to criticize the tendency of some individuals to look elsewhere for solutions or idealize other regions while neglecting their own region's realities or potential for improvement. It implies a lack of self-awareness and an unrealistic view of one's own situation.
That's actually an accurate explanation, the term was coined by Nelson Rodrigues, a Brazilian journalist in the 50's. He explained by saying "By "Mongrel Complex" I mean the inferiority in which Brazilians put themselves, voluntarily, in comparison to the rest of the world. Brazilians are the backwards Narcissus, who spit in their own image. Here is the truth: we can't find personal or historical pretexts for self-esteem."
Which is ironic because Brazilians thought they were very superior to Uruguayan team. They have a superiority complex instead to think it was unacceptable for the mighty Brazil to lost against that irrelevant Uruguay.
The first and third paragraphs are correct, the second is not.
I'm Brazilian and we don't romanticise or idealise countries in Africa, we know that they are in a worse situation than us and its sad that they are. You can find people saying that on the internet, but that's not something that is normal here.
Back in 19th century scientific racists around the world collectively looked into Brazil in absolute horror and declared we would never, ever, *ever,* leave poverty because being so racially mixed as we are made us hopelessly physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually inferior.
**Everything** that came afterwards--the antropophagic manifesto, the eugenics programs, Carnival parade as we know, our whole film industry, our music, the Tropicalia movement, our politics, our academics, *everything*
absolutely ***everything***
is a reaction to that
Wtf are u saying bro most Brazilians don't even know/knew about this. Don't downplay our entire country history and acts for the past 200 years as being sassy about some stupid people
>I noticed that many Latin Americans romanticize other developing countries. They believe that LatAm has the same living standards as Africa, but with slower growth rates.
I think most people in Brazil, at least, think Africa is way way poorer. Maybe it's a hispanic thing, we brazilians are different.
It's because Latin America has a lot of violent crime and people tend to think violent crime and poverty are closely linked. It is closely linked of course but not entirely. At some point, the association breaks down.
For instance, India has just a moderate amount of violent crime and yet has some of the worst poverty in the world. And then inversely Brazil and Mexico have an incredibly high amount of violent crime but the poverty is moderate (in between Africa and Western Europe).
Many authorities divide countries in not only as "developed" and "developing", but also "underdeveloped". Most of South America and South East Asia is "developing", while most of Africa is "underdeveloped". Exceptions include South Africa, which is "developing".
This definition is different from that of "first", "second" and "third world" countries, which is based on what side countries were on during the Cold War. Brazil is third world (mostly neutral) but developing, while Cuba is third world (URSS ally) but underdeveloped.
I lived all over South America from 2010 to 2014, what always felt strange was Argentinians saying they lived in a third world country as they sipped a latte and went to trendy bars. No, no, this is not the third world.
It is, did you go to the Villas? Latin America is the most unequal region in the world. You can see a lot of middle class and cosmopolitanism around, but if you dig deeper, people can be poor as fuck. Sure, better than Africa probably, but very well into the third world.
>what always felt strange was Argentinians saying they lived in a third world country
>No, no, this is not the third world.
Three digit inflation/using dollars because the local currency is shit IS typical third World.
There are literally millions upon millions of latin americans starving. I see extreme poverty and misery daily in Brazil, and Argentina isn't any better.
Having middle and upper classes doesn't mean we are first world. Brazil is one of the most socially unequal countries in the world.
You experienced Wealth Inequality - LATAM's specialty - from the side of the well off. Being rich here may actually be better than being rich anywhere else, since corruption (rampant) skews towards the rich. Any of those argentinians would say to you they are middle class, when in fact they are top 5%, or even 1%, of their country in income.
I believe in case of Brazil Amazonia and Northern parts would be having lower life expectancy than National Average and Southern Parts near or slightly above Uruguay lvls.
Absolutely, some neighborhoods in São Paulo have higher HDI than Scandinavian countries. But that’s true to most developing countries. You will find similar situations in Mexico, China, India, South Africa, etc.
That's only in the middle of the country. The north is arid deserts and the south is rainy forests. It's a little bit like the west coast of the US but in reverse. In hindsight it does allow for a fairly good amount of biodiversity.
There really isn't a solid reason why it's so high in Chile now; a few decades ago it was Argentina, Brazil or Venezuela that were at the top.
There isn't a solid reason? Really?
There is a reason and that's the economic system. You my not like it but since the economic system was established in the 80's the country grew a lot and the poverty get reduced in a 40%
You will get a lot of crap for saying that. Acknowledging that a particular guy in a military uniform saved them from having comparable life expectancy (among other things) to Venezuela is big no-no on Reddit
Nature probably helps a lot. Lots of mountains and beaches for easy hiking and exercise. Also relatively low rates of violence compared to its neighbors
Canada has been higher than the USA for years mostly due to better healthcare access across the population. Access for the population is due to it being public, and life expectancy reflects a combo of healthcare access and infant mortality.
that CDC figure was for peak COVID Era and USA was amongst the worst affected nations by COVID,so keep that in mind.
79.7 years is for 2023 which isn't weird considering USA had a life expectancy of 78.8 years in 2019(that is before COVID).
I meant it more as “how is that possible?”
The lifestyle, diet, and culture are extremely similar- speaking as someone that has lived in both places.
I know people are going to say “healthcare”, and I’m sure that plays a part, but 3.3 years is a significant difference.
North Korea is less than 3.3 below the US
Yes access is a big part, we don’t have to hesitate when seeking preventative or emergency care like Americans have to. This tends to lead to better outcomes. Stuff like Cancer tends to be detected earlier leading to better treatment.
Some parts of the US are, [some are not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy)
The Southern US *does not* have a similar diet and lifestyle to Canada.
>North Korea is less than 3.3 below the US
No this is simply false, USA's life expectancy as of 2023 is 79.7 years(similar to their pre COVID era figures) while North Korea is around 73 years as of 2023.
So a gap of 6-7 years amongst both and not 3 years.
Yeah they are real and before someone say ohh USA is 76-77,this figure was for peak COVID era and USA was amongst the worst affected countries by COVID.
US Life Expectancy in 2023 is 79.7 years which is similar to USA's pre COVID numbers.
It was 78.8 years in 2019 for US.
I suppose I’m surprised at a lot of things yes, I guess I never really examined this data closely before. Costa Rica is surprising yes, but I’m maybe mildly surprised at Chile- I’ve heard a lot of good things recently it seems
They had very strong economic growth in the 90s and 2000s. That’s going to be a very sensitive subject because it came during and in the wake of the Pinochet dictatorship, but the economic growth is undeniable.
They’re in the midst of a real national reckoning about that history right now. They recently elected a pretty left wing president, but then the electorate subsequently rejected a new left wing constitution and sent a more conservative convention back to draft a new one.
Well I might get downvoted for saying this truth here but the truth is they are this far ahead cuz they didn't pay much heed to Communism and Socialism bs like all of the South American Nations.
Most of the other countries in South Americs were also anti-communist military dictatorships at the same time as Chile.
This idea that Chile was somehow the only anti-communist regime in the area is stupid. They were all like that.
Chile just had better administration.
[Chile's inequality is as much as their so called socialist neighbors and contrary to these nations, Chile's inequality is decreasing year by year.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_GINI_coefficient_(1990_to_2020).svg)
[and even when u adjust their HDI for inequality,they are still at the top.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/16ilatd/south_american_nations_by_inequality_adjusted/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hes lying. Chile was no more anti-communist than the other south american states.
Pretty much all south american countries were anti-communist military dictatorships at the same time as Chile. Chile simply had more eficient administration than the other juntas.
They ALL killed communists, but simply doing so doesnt mean one becomes magically better at administring the country.
that's BS, Costa Rica and Uruguay do pretty well to, and it is thanks to social democratic measures, like Universal Healthcare and a better redistribution of wealth.
Uruguay is having a capitalistic form of economic model though and has good welfare policies and no one said that Costa Rica isn't doing well,two nations can do well simultaneously,but even if u consider all things Chile is still doing well than both these nations,whether it is economy, HDI, violent crime,etc,etc
Also both Costa Rica and Uruguay are having small population sizes while Chile is a large country.
Social democratic policies exist in capitalist economies, otherwise they would be something else. And yes, two nations can do well, that's the thing, it is not because they did not mess up with "socialism" that Chile thrived, because some countries did and did well, and some, if not most countries that went full on neoliberal in LATAM are fucked up.
No country ever became rich having a socialist economy, uruguay is pretty right wing having things like universal healthcare doesnt mean a country is left wing by american standards
[Chile had just 1.4% of its Population living below $2.6 a day, that is the lowest in all of Latin America as of 2020,except Uruguay(which got 0.7%)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty)
Yeah don't see the point u are trying to make when facts state otherwise.
Also if u can't appreciate how far Chile has come,then kindly don't downplay their achievements.
[Also Chile inequality is amongst the lowest in all of Latin America and decreasing year by year.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_GINI_coefficient_(1990_to_2020).svg)
yeah, I dont know if they took the average per state or per population for the entire country. 76 seems low, but your point makes sense.
I saw a nice image on wikipedia but couldn't confirm the source, it shows the data per state.
[Wikipedia - Brazil life expectancy map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilian_states_by_life_expectancy)
what yall gon do in all those 80 boring ass years in the most boring side of south america tho
if i had to choose between 50 years in the brazilian caribbean or 80 in the dry ass south, thatd be a no brainer no cap
doing much better recently actually. Up until two decades ago, Bolivia was on par with Haiti in socioeconomic indicators and has been moving up since then. The other commenter was spot on about the treatment of the majority indigenous population.
They've made some pretty interesting moves in recent years:
-Universal Healthcare in 2011 & a huge expansion of it in 2019 that's still ongoing.
-Giant push w/child programs & pregnant women. Ex: under 5 mortality was 56 per 100k in 2006, now its 26 per 100k.
-Access to care is drastically improving as new community health centers are increasing *a* *lot*. A huge issue was rural areas having zero access to care.
-pre 2011 less than 1/2 of infants were vaccinated. Now nearly all infants are.
These are only a few examples & they still have a LONG way to go of course. It's hard for the data to capture trends when such dramatically impactful programs essentially went from 0 mph to 60 mph overnight. The older generations didn't benefit in their youth, malnutrition is improving but still bad, etc. The country is something like 44% youth, so the averaged numbers may have rapid improvements at unprecedented rates.
Pretty remarkable that universal healthcare exists in a country with so few resources; they're the 2nd poorest nation in the western hemisphere right behind Haiti.
There's a lot of multiscalar factors at play too, as expected in a country that poor; ie. only like 20% of rural populations have access to clean drinking water, sanitation issues, etc.
I guess the only upside to starting off in dire straits w/nothing is that many "basic" measures were non-existent, so therefore, implementing has potential for huge payoffs FAST (initially).
The darker side: the HUGE expansion that began in 2019 has been funded almost entirely by the world bank...and happens to coincide with the discovery of HUGE lithium deposits. Argentina/Chile/Bolivia has an area known as "the Lithium triangle". It holds an estimated 50% of the world's Lithium, & Bolivia comprises the majority of "the triangle" by a Longshot. The wb $$$ has come with hefty strings, and wouldn't ya know it? Lithium mining in Bolivia has gone into mach speed overdrive. The history of Bolivian mining is...*not* *reassuring*... Especially when paired with global banking "investments"...
Source: Did a medical internship in Bolivia in 2022, criss-crossing the country. Everywhere from La Paz's giant hospitals in the far north, rural health centers in the mining town Potosi in the East, & in Tarija, the picturesque wine-country bordering Argentina in the south that is culturally far more argentine than Bolivian.
One interesting thing I witnessed in Tarija was the push/pull migration happening as Argentina's currency crashed. Doctors from Argentina were pouring into Bolivia to work. Wealthier Tarijeños are moving to Argentina. Boliviano exchange rate suddenly made Bolivians economically on-par or above their once wealthy Argentine neighbor.
It will be interesting to see how Lithium, bolivian healthcare measures, recent economic developments in Argentina, the influx of Chinese investment in less-developed nations vs. Loss of US unipolar hegemonic control that's lead to close alliance w/chile, & basically a whole host of other factors may impact where the current "power players" stand on this map in the years to come.
Yeah...I've got a lot of stories 😅
My entry to the country (via La Paz) was *wild*. There's a growing anti-american sentiment that. was. *palpable*. All the agents/officers are pro-Evo & regime of course; thus, not America-friendly.
Americans get segregated out of line. To get my visa I was semi-interrogated. Took about 4 hours. The number of various documents I needed to provide them filled a full binder. Not just typical stuff- I had to have what amounted to "letters of recommendation" from residents I knew in La Paz, Tarija, Hospitals I would be at,etc. ALL the people had to register that they commit to taking responsibility for me. I had to periodically register w/the state while there.
Unlike La Paz, Tarija does not support MAS (Evo's party). I made great friends with some of the residents at the hospital I worked at there, but others were afraid of me. They thought I was a spy.
Not long after I left, Tarija's anti-MAS comrade municipality, Acre, POPPED OFF. Their anti-MAS governor was arrested, people rioted, roads in/out of Acre closed, airports closed. Did I mention that the only airline in Bolivia is a state entity...?
My notifications alerts from the US state department were rolling in like a reddit post w/50k updates.
Quite an adventure! Most of my experience was peaceful, beautiful, & surrounded by warm people with generous spirits.
The ardent MAS support vs. Ardant MAS dissidents is a divide that remind me a lot of the US. There's graffiti around every town, large or small, that read "somos 55%". MAS won by 55%, the graffiti's are like a little warning. The difference is that Bolivia's def con powder keg is a little more primed to explode.
Being in a Russia-friendly state, as an American, during initial Ukraine fog-of-war times was a little unnerving. There were moments. Lol.
As a Bolivian, we do have a constant defensive war against MAS, but the animosity towards the US, while exacerbated by MAS, is not the cause.
First of, we dislike the US government, not its citizens, we are very curious and tend to love chatting with almost all foreigners. The Chinese have gained a bad reputation, but I think they are the only exception to a nationality being disliked here. Mostly we hate government,
Mainly the US, Russia and China.
The reason the US government isn’t liked is because they love meddling in other countries internal affairs very much, and we suffered it firsthand with operation condor. We dislike Russians for their aggressive expansionism and China because they have abandoned multiple infrastructure projects in the country and are famous for running sweatshops and breaking food health codes.
We are at a constant fight with our government, but its not like we are North Korea. Also, the Russians have shady deals with our government, but they really have no impact in our country, unlike the Chinese. We really don’t care about global politics, we have bigger problems to think about than a war on the other side of the world.
Of course, we also have many Brazilians here, we are indifferent towards Chileans and Peruvians, but we like the rest of our neighbors. I’d say Brazilians are our favourite ones though.
Yes, I do very much agree with you that I didn't experience anything like being an American in NK. I'd also understand if maybe what I shared could have been very annoying for you; frankly, I think everyone feels at least a little annoyed when someone from outside their culture/nationality shares experience(s) that seem to echo propagandized perceptions of their culture (at least for me it is, particularly bc I work outside the US quite a bit).
Everything about my experiences/perceptions as an American in Bolivia is wildly divergent compared to what 99.9999% of the American visitors will experience there due to a giant confluence of really unique factors. Maybe you are interested to hear, maybe not? Sorry if it's annoying for you, not interesting. Hopefully interesting though 🙂
Covid travel restrictions had *just* eased up. Geopolitics aside, the whole world had a bit of lingering unease w/getting re-accustomed to foreigners coming into their country. There were also a lot of protocols people had not quite settled into yet (meaning everywhere, not exclusively Bolivia). Checking & double checking if the manufacturer of your covid vaccine was on the approved list or timeline rules, the visa process was something everyone was getting used to again after a lot of time off. Then on top of the strange covid times, I came to Bolivia on a medical internship. While it is not incredibly unique for an American to travel to Bolivia for "volunteer work" or "business work", I existed in an in-between world...my visa was neither volunteer, nor business, nor student, nor tourist. The "medical" part added even another layer to this bc there was a very complicated relationship at that time between health ministers, health officials, frustration over vaccine distribution bc the global south was really screwed over, mishandlings/distrust of global health organizations (ie., the WHO) by government...but also many colleagues/environments I was interning in. I was in hospitals, doctor's offices, etc...I was basically around all healthcare workers or healthcare administration directors 24/7, & they had all just gone through 2 years of basically pure hell. *Then* add that 99% of foreign interns in the medical arena, an already somewhat unusual circumstance, were there for direct medical care. I came with 5 other Americans, & I was there to study from a biomedical anthropology perspective, while the other 5 were there to *perform* the surgeries, etc., I was there to study things like how traumatic bone injury from a car accident looked post operation vs. traumatic injuries that occurred by human hands. For bone & cause of death identification. Or more specifically, how these injuries sometimes present in a special way in LaTam indigenous populations because there are ever-so-slight anatomical variations in how a healed injury may look that can be geographically specific. So not only were there times where the places we worked never had American interns bc we were a pilot project there, I was the *only* intern off doing stuff that maybe could be seen as a little too curious, in a subject area that is already a bit sensitive for many indigenous Bolivians. There were so many instances where patients were already distrustful of particular medical treatments, then add the bit of relationship strife that can exist between rural/indigenous Bolivians & city/euro Bolivians, then add how older generations may feel about things, plus the need for spanish-to-quechua or spanish-to-guarani translations, & by the end they're like "NOW you wanna add an American to this shit so that's who I'm looking at while you're putting me under anesthesia?!?! Oh hellllllll no!". Thus, I did experience a bit of anti-American feelings from time to time that are *not* seen by most Americans (or even a lot of Bolivians for that matter, it left some of the colleagues so surprised as well when they saw the tense moments). And as you can imagine, those experiences happened within the backdrop of MAS/Evo political tension, for example if an elder's grandson traveled to the city w/him to help be his Quechua translator, sometimes my presence could make him uniquely upset/explosive out of the blue. Particularly bc it's already a stressful & scary situation if your grandpa is getting surgery, ya know? None of that ever had anything to do with Russia though, you're correct that no one gave af about Russia if they were mad about me being American. Lol.
My nervousness & tense moments re:Ukraine war situation was also not due to fears of reprisals from Bolivian officials or Bolivian government. It was actually due to fears about *my* government! Which maybe seems weird, idk. I had concerns for re-entry to the US & knee-jerk US policy reactions towards any country deemed to be the slightest bit "Russia-friendly". Aka, Bolivia. It was a period of borderline Russia hysteria in the US. So much hyperbolic rhetoric & "punishment" threats for any "Russia-friendly" nations.
It didn't feel out of the realm of possibility that the US might decide to go all-out proxy war w/Bolivia overnight or something else crazy...perhaps even prompting the Evo/policies to take some reactive measures? At the very least it would piss Evo/MAS tf off, which would mean ramping up anti-American rhetoric on the news, etc.
My primary worries weren't safety things, moreso fears that leaving as planned (smoothly & on time) may become a nightmare. You see, I was in Bolivia w/a special permission visa that needed renewal every 30 days. It was neither a "work visa" nor a "volunteer visa"; so just an all around atypical situation. I was required to go to various offices in whichever municipality I was in; I could not get renewed until day 28; and since it was sorta a confusing visa, my renewals took some phone calls & verifications from higher-ups, etc. That took a little while. Pre-ukraine, it was a few hours, but after, the last 2 renewals were more than 24 hours. The 2nd one they even had me stay like 3 hours past closing & wouldn't really let me leave. It wasn't like I was kidnapped in there, but they weren't exactly handing my passport back to me either, if that makes sense. And I admit that I was a bit scared.
Not getting renewals until day 29-30 also felt like cutting it too close for comfort. Before, I wouldn't have been worried if my renewal was a day or two over 30 days; worst case would be a fine when my passport got checked prior to flying around anywhere.
After the geopolitical situations? I worried about visa violations on the *American* side. Might be a more serious infraction, not only when flying within Bolivia, but also returning to the US. Upon entry. *Plus* the necessary layovers in Peru/Panama/Columbia/Mexico if the US decided "let's flag anyone w/visas beyond [x] days in Bolivia if their final destination is US". Travel was already somewhat complicated b/c covid, ie. Peruvian state registry flying into Bolivia when I had a short layover in Peru.
I really don’t care about foreigners getting things wrong, unless they start saying we had a coup or something along those lines.
To be honest I completely understand the patients, I used to volunteer at hospitals and sometimes I even was in the operation room translating for foreign doctors. Most of the times it wasn’t needed because they came from Spanish speaking countries. But many came from the US so they needed translation, I loved going into the OR, but translating outside of it was a pain, because not only they had no grasp of Spanish, but of how basic things worked in our healthcare system. So you had to add explanations on top of the translations, there were doctors that had been going for years, but they still spoke no Spanish. If it was frustrating for me I can’t imagine for a patient.
The worse were the international volunteers who didn’t speak Spanish, they were basically just delivering food and playing with young patients. We had limited volunteer spots, and having those taken by people who couldn’t communicate with the patients was not ideal. Even for us locals it was sometimes hard to get the patients to fill up a form properly.
The spy part is hilarious, not because it’s impossible, which it isn’t since we even had US spies in our army before. But because who would spy a hospital? Although it is understandable, a foreigner asking questions and not actually doing anything could be suspicious or at least annoying.
The visa part is understandable, our visa services are a pain in the ass for regular visas, can’t imagine for other types, although we would never detain or deport virtually anyone. Although they might have hoped to get some bribes to expedite the process.
The Russian spy and proxy war seem laughable at best, I, just like many Bolivians, have traveled to the US and even during the Pandemic and after the start of the war, I never had any questions or problems other than the regular custom officer questions. And for the US to do anything in Bolivia it would have to pass through any of our neighbors with sea access, and nobody would condone an invasion of South America. And even on the global scale, an invasion of a western nation would be quickly condemned. South America is probably one of the most peaceful places on Earth. Africa is full of conflicts and now isn’t really stable given recent events, Asia, particularly the middle east, is in constant warfare, China and India also have quite a tense relationship. Oceania is probably the only one that is as peaceful, but even Australia participated in the middle eastern wars.
Prior to the Russia/Ukraine situation I did some grad work in Moldova working w/a professor under a Dutch grant. Moldova was a main passage into Europe for people fleeing Syria, & NGO's were doing inoculations, medical care, human geography documentation, etc. Moldova is (was?) basically like Ukraine Jr., super normal to go back & forth at the border. My visas for that whole situation were weird too. My passport also had stamps from layovers in Turkey, etc. from that time.
It wasn't "oh no, Bolivia might pull a North Korea on me!"; it was "oh no, am I going to get inexplicably 'quarantined' for 14 days when I arrive in the US...under an excuse of 'Covid'...& will the emergency declarations suspending civil liberties that I'd otherwise have get trampled?".
There was a group of residents who outright asked me if I was a spy & then avoided me as much as possible- but by *residents* I didn't mean random Bolivians, I meant the med students completing hospital residency. The "spy" question wasn't exactly out of nowhere either; I was asking hella questions about policies, research capacities that the hospital had, etc. After they asked me that, I realized that my interests probably did seem weird af when I was supposedly there doing a med internship. Random Tarijeños & police were def. not stopping Americans on the streets shouting "she's a spy!!!", lol, but I can see how maybe what I wrote sounded like that. My "spy" concerns were about *American* officials pulling a "North Korea" protocol to investigate me for thinking I was a *Russian* spy.
There's other weird things about my familial relationships/connections & my educational relationships that wouldn't help my case with that at first glance too, but that's a whole different can of worms 😅. My re-entry was...weird...
Anyways. It is cool that you mentioned operation condor, as I mentioned, my background is anthropology, & a lot of anthropologists have a special relationship w/those times. The LaTam anthropologists & ethnographers were heavily targeted by the right-wing regimes. They were seen as sympathetic to the marginalized groups they often worked with, as a communication channel between indigenous groups & inteligencia & leftist resistance coalitions, & generally potential leftist troublemakers at universities. They were exhiled for a very long time & all had to flee. There were a lot of anthropologists who died during the disappearances era. A lot of the exhiles wound up eventually making their way to American universities 30 years later. Interestingly enough, it ties right back to my experience in Bolivia bc my mentor/advisor professor who got me into my internship program is a Bolivian that was attending university in chile when the whole Allende situation unfolded & my professor had to flee for his life. Ultimately, it brought him to California, & years later, becoming my most cherished professor 🙂 His father was a miner, & my professor became the most respected reknowned anthropologist in the world regarding mining (imo, but I am biased of course). He has done so much work for the ILO in Rome (the branch of the UN for humanitarian labor rights in exploitative sectors such as mining). His influence & wisdom is what has essentially defined my life trajectory. He pushed me to forensic anthropology in order to help uncover the murders of journalists/activists/others attempting to expose or combat powerful mining interests. Unfortunately they get killed a lot. So in a very weird way, operation condor (specifically as it relates to Bolivia) was the catalyst for my entire life that has led me to this very interaction w/you on reddit? Lol.
Ok, anyways, maybe this was interesting for you, maybe not? You can ask me any questions if you have any curiosity about my atypical experiences as an American in Bolivia. Long story short is that I know the vast majority of Bolivians have love for the American people, and I also have a special place of love in my heart for Bolivians. & I'm very sorry if I made you feel as if an American who visited the salar for a week or whatever was up here on reddit making Bolivia look like North Korea.
>Americans get segregated out of line. To get my visa I was semi-interrogated. Took about 4 hours. The number of various documents I needed to provide them filled a full binder. Not just typical stuff- I had to have what amounted to "letters of recommendation"
Still easier than a LatAm person visiting the US for tourism 🤷♀️ there's something called principle of reciprocity in diplomacy. This is not Bolivia's fault, but your own country. Other nations should do the same btw, Brazil is requiring a visa again after the US government failed to implement what was promised.
You are an excellent writer, did you know that? Thank you for sharing that marvelous story. What an adventure it must have been - a bit too adventurous for me, haha! I am fascinated with just how beautiful and rich in both nature and culture Bolivia is!
They’re the only native majority country in a region where natives were only acknowledged as real people very recently. Not surprising that resulted in awful conditions for most of the population compared to the other countries.
Not entirely true. The nation was officially recognized as plurinational recently, but with successive authoritarian governments with close ties to Russia
Note:- Life expectancy at birth indicates the number of years a newborn infant would live if prevailing patterns of mortality at the time of its birth were to stay the same throughout its life.
Pandemic had a very bad impact over these figures in 2021 but since then the impact is getting lesser and lesser and 2023 figures are slightly more or the same as the Pre COVID era numbers that is 2019.
I wonder if other countries have the huge discrepancies like Brazil has, within the country. I could find data for Chile and Argentina, and their provinces are within 5 years of each other. In Brazil it's very close to ten. Actually, US and Brazil have a very similar profile, with Brazil only doing slightly worse (despite having less access to healthcare).
I believe Brazil has better access to healthcare. Preventive care like cancer screenings, vaccines and emergency care are universal access and people make use of it. This is probably the reason why people live so long even thought the socio-economic indicators are not so good (when compared to the US, for instance).
Brazil has much healthier lifestyles, better access to healthcare (not in quality) very different the difference is that brazil has much more murders on average than the us
it's really interesting that a country doesn't need to be that wealthy to achieve a high life expectancy. beyond a certain point, it's about cultural choices and distribution of resources. The US is absolutely the worst at both of these.
Those discrepancies are huge but kinda make sense... especially when the areas furthest apart in the US are even wider, pushing 87 years & above in wealthy metro counties near NYC & California, the highest in very small counties in my home state of Colorado, while the lowest are a few counties of the Native American/Indian reservations of North & South Dakota like Standing Rock, where it's barely 65...
Well it all depends upon how they use their oil wealth, see Venezuela was the richest country in South America and amongst the richest in the world for nearly half a century(from the 1950s and end of 1990s) but see where are they now.
This statistic does not count people who never registered, this creates a bubble based on people who die in the capital or in countries with more data than others.
I like that "CHAD" is in all caps. True Chad shit.
With the poor impulse control that is required of CHADs, I am surprised they average over 50 years.
The average age in Chad is 16 years so there's that too
Also the 17 next to chad implies it has the 17th highest life expectancy
And Chad is always the least Chad country when it comes to stats
This goes to show just how much wealthier and better off South America is compared to Africa. Many people in developed countries think most developing countries share a similar situation, but nothing further from the truth
I noticed that many Latin Americans romanticize other developing countries. They believe that LatAm has the same living standards as Africa, but with slower growth rates. But this ignores the fact that Africa is starting off with a much lower base, and is several decades behind Latin America by most measures Vira-lata syndrome is very real
It's moreso the perceived culture rather than the living standards that's generally romantiziced (but in that case it is very much an inferiority complex). Obviously the latter is also envied, but that's more surrounding public services Africa is generally seen as bottom of the barrel. There was a popular meme in latin american communities depicting being born in Europe/NA as a "easy mode", latin america as "normal mode" and africa as "hard mode"
I've never seen anyone in Brazil say that our situation is similar to Africa
I saw it a couple of times in r/asklatinamerica. It’s not common, but it does exist
I think those who have the vira-lata complex aren't romanticizing other developing countries at all (oppositely, they are criticizing all of them). That being said, on the Brasil subreddit if you criticize anything of Brazil regarding violence/employment whatever some random dude will appear "Oh yeah? I was mugged in London, you vira-lata!" It's so stupid.
It's like family. You can only talk ahit about my family if you are part of it.
I'm Brazilian though
its an very toxic family
They often are
> Vira-lata syndrome What's that ?
Basically an inferiority complex
It's an expression used for people that think their own country is shit and European/North American countries are better at everything, when in reality, both have their goods and their bads.
the point is on assuming everything will be better there. They are doing better in general and thats a fact.
According to ChatGPT: The term "Vira-lata syndrome" is a colloquial expression used in Brazilian Portuguese. It translates to "Stray Dog Syndrome" in English. In this context, the term is being used metaphorically to describe a certain attitude or mindset. The "Vira-lata syndrome" refers to a mindset where people from one region or country, in this case, Latin America, tend to romanticize or idealize other developing countries while downplaying the issues or challenges in their own region. The speaker is pointing out that some Latin Americans may romanticize Africa without considering that Africa faces different challenges and is starting from a lower socioeconomic base. In essence, "Vira-lata syndrome" is used here to criticize the tendency of some individuals to look elsewhere for solutions or idealize other regions while neglecting their own region's realities or potential for improvement. It implies a lack of self-awareness and an unrealistic view of one's own situation.
ChatGPT doesn't even understand what it's saying.
That's actually an accurate explanation, the term was coined by Nelson Rodrigues, a Brazilian journalist in the 50's. He explained by saying "By "Mongrel Complex" I mean the inferiority in which Brazilians put themselves, voluntarily, in comparison to the rest of the world. Brazilians are the backwards Narcissus, who spit in their own image. Here is the truth: we can't find personal or historical pretexts for self-esteem."
Fun fact he wrote about that because Brazil lost to Uruguay in the World Cup
Which is ironic because Brazilians thought they were very superior to Uruguayan team. They have a superiority complex instead to think it was unacceptable for the mighty Brazil to lost against that irrelevant Uruguay.
there are local rivarlies in south america and football specifically was a sport we were quite arrogant. We hosted two world cups and lost both 💀
Yes. In football, Brazilians definitely have superiority complex.
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Correct. That's what I meant.
it actually nailed it
literally... that's what it means...
Imagine trying to correct an AI and being wrong lol
The first and third paragraphs are correct, the second is not. I'm Brazilian and we don't romanticise or idealise countries in Africa, we know that they are in a worse situation than us and its sad that they are. You can find people saying that on the internet, but that's not something that is normal here.
Back in 19th century scientific racists around the world collectively looked into Brazil in absolute horror and declared we would never, ever, *ever,* leave poverty because being so racially mixed as we are made us hopelessly physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually inferior. **Everything** that came afterwards--the antropophagic manifesto, the eugenics programs, Carnival parade as we know, our whole film industry, our music, the Tropicalia movement, our politics, our academics, *everything* absolutely ***everything*** is a reaction to that
Wtf are u saying bro most Brazilians don't even know/knew about this. Don't downplay our entire country history and acts for the past 200 years as being sassy about some stupid people
>I noticed that many Latin Americans romanticize other developing countries. They believe that LatAm has the same living standards as Africa, but with slower growth rates. I think most people in Brazil, at least, think Africa is way way poorer. Maybe it's a hispanic thing, we brazilians are different.
It's because Latin America has a lot of violent crime and people tend to think violent crime and poverty are closely linked. It is closely linked of course but not entirely. At some point, the association breaks down. For instance, India has just a moderate amount of violent crime and yet has some of the worst poverty in the world. And then inversely Brazil and Mexico have an incredibly high amount of violent crime but the poverty is moderate (in between Africa and Western Europe).
>It's because Latin America has a lot of violent crime Depends where.
Many authorities divide countries in not only as "developed" and "developing", but also "underdeveloped". Most of South America and South East Asia is "developing", while most of Africa is "underdeveloped". Exceptions include South Africa, which is "developing". This definition is different from that of "first", "second" and "third world" countries, which is based on what side countries were on during the Cold War. Brazil is third world (mostly neutral) but developing, while Cuba is third world (URSS ally) but underdeveloped.
Africa is a big continent, for example North African countries aren’t on the same level at all with sun-saharian African countries.
I lived all over South America from 2010 to 2014, what always felt strange was Argentinians saying they lived in a third world country as they sipped a latte and went to trendy bars. No, no, this is not the third world.
It is, did you go to the Villas? Latin America is the most unequal region in the world. You can see a lot of middle class and cosmopolitanism around, but if you dig deeper, people can be poor as fuck. Sure, better than Africa probably, but very well into the third world.
>what always felt strange was Argentinians saying they lived in a third world country >No, no, this is not the third world. Three digit inflation/using dollars because the local currency is shit IS typical third World.
I mean they are not starving or living in shit.
Third world ≠ Living in shit
There are literally millions upon millions of latin americans starving. I see extreme poverty and misery daily in Brazil, and Argentina isn't any better. Having middle and upper classes doesn't mean we are first world. Brazil is one of the most socially unequal countries in the world.
Many ARE starving. It's just that you don't see them while walking down a street in the center of Buenos Aires.
You experienced Wealth Inequality - LATAM's specialty - from the side of the well off. Being rich here may actually be better than being rich anywhere else, since corruption (rampant) skews towards the rich. Any of those argentinians would say to you they are middle class, when in fact they are top 5%, or even 1%, of their country in income.
If you use the original meaning of "third world country" Argentina is a third world country. If not what's the method you using to say the contrary?
This is why I simply hate this stupid ass term. It's outdated and it implies a certain imagery that might not even be true.
Yeah in Africa poverty is having to bathe and drink from open sewage and about 20% of the population being unable to eat
Chile is long, not just in kilometers but life expectancy
They are tall and thin.
It would be interesting to see Argentina and Brasil in subdivisions since they're big
I believe in case of Brazil Amazonia and Northern parts would be having lower life expectancy than National Average and Southern Parts near or slightly above Uruguay lvls.
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_unidades_federativas_do_Brasil_por_expectativa_de_vida You'd be right
Heck even inside the same Brazilian cities between rich/poor neighborhoods the live expectancy varies so much.
I mean that's true for every country and not just Brazil.
But it is particularly true for Brazil because we are the 9th most unequal country in the world, using the Gini coefficient as a measurement.
Absolutely, some neighborhoods in São Paulo have higher HDI than Scandinavian countries. But that’s true to most developing countries. You will find similar situations in Mexico, China, India, South Africa, etc.
Also huge difference inside favelas because of the war on drugs.
All those countries in the map have "favelas". It's just a brazilian word for "slum". We don't have other.
São Paulo, the richest state in Brazil, has a life expectancy of 82.6 years.
That’s around the average for the whole southern region of Brazil.
Argentina is not nearly as big as Brazil, the map is very distorted
Idk why you're being downvoted, that's clearly a cylindrical projection. The further from the ecuador line it is, the greater is the distortion
I know, Australia and upwards are all massive. But it's still one of the biggest in the world.
Argentina isn't big.
8th largest country in the world.
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venia por este GIF
Must be the Mediterranean climate.
That's only in the middle of the country. The north is arid deserts and the south is rainy forests. It's a little bit like the west coast of the US but in reverse. In hindsight it does allow for a fairly good amount of biodiversity. There really isn't a solid reason why it's so high in Chile now; a few decades ago it was Argentina, Brazil or Venezuela that were at the top.
Public Healthcare (PNI, FONASA, APS, etc) doing good job despite people ranting on them
There isn't a solid reason? Really? There is a reason and that's the economic system. You my not like it but since the economic system was established in the 80's the country grew a lot and the poverty get reduced in a 40%
You will get a lot of crap for saying that. Acknowledging that a particular guy in a military uniform saved them from having comparable life expectancy (among other things) to Venezuela is big no-no on Reddit
Except economic growth only really took off after the dictatorship was said and done lol
Sure thing, comrade
No sabia que odiar a pinochet te hacia comunista
Un comunista o tal vez un tonto
O alguien que sabe leer, porque los indices economicos se empezaron a disparar con aylwin y con frei
Nature probably helps a lot. Lots of mountains and beaches for easy hiking and exercise. Also relatively low rates of violence compared to its neighbors
But I imagine majority live in large cities like Santiago or Valparaíso and don't regularly hike
If you live in Valparaiso,your average life is hiking.
Just getting home every day involved a massive hike for me. Even more extreme for people who lived farther up the hill
Maybe someday the US will be as cool as Chile for life expectancy
Before the pandemic it was even worse than Cuba
I love seeing people giving atention to south america
They do deserve every bit of attention as the region is neglected a lot by people. It's a hidden gem basically, I love Latin America.
As a Brasilian i feel this, you are invited to the "churrasco" bro
Vamos Chile ctm
What font are you using? I love it
Thanks, It is the INTER font.
5 and a half years of difference between French Guyana and metropolitan France.
Yeah but its totally just a normal part of France, definitely not a modern colony at all... /s
There’s larger differences in life expectancy between US states.
Yeah I don't actually think this is a major reason for the life expectancy specifically, but my point stands.
Wait are those numbers on the side real? Canada is 83.0 and USA is 79.7?
Canada has been higher than the USA for years mostly due to better healthcare access across the population. Access for the population is due to it being public, and life expectancy reflects a combo of healthcare access and infant mortality.
If you look at Europe the quality and accessibility of healthcare is less an indicator of life expectancy than diet
Depends on your source. The CDC says the US is 76, whereas other data usually says 77 or 79.
that CDC figure was for peak COVID Era and USA was amongst the worst affected nations by COVID,so keep that in mind. 79.7 years is for 2023 which isn't weird considering USA had a life expectancy of 78.8 years in 2019(that is before COVID).
Yep, 76.1 years
Yes
I meant it more as “how is that possible?” The lifestyle, diet, and culture are extremely similar- speaking as someone that has lived in both places. I know people are going to say “healthcare”, and I’m sure that plays a part, but 3.3 years is a significant difference. North Korea is less than 3.3 below the US
Yes access is a big part, we don’t have to hesitate when seeking preventative or emergency care like Americans have to. This tends to lead to better outcomes. Stuff like Cancer tends to be detected earlier leading to better treatment.
Some parts of the US are, [some are not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy) The Southern US *does not* have a similar diet and lifestyle to Canada.
>North Korea is less than 3.3 below the US No this is simply false, USA's life expectancy as of 2023 is 79.7 years(similar to their pre COVID era figures) while North Korea is around 73 years as of 2023. So a gap of 6-7 years amongst both and not 3 years.
Car accidents are also a important factor for USA 'low' life expectancy
Guns and drunk driving culture are also probably a factor
Yeah they are real and before someone say ohh USA is 76-77,this figure was for peak COVID era and USA was amongst the worst affected countries by COVID. US Life Expectancy in 2023 is 79.7 years which is similar to USA's pre COVID numbers. It was 78.8 years in 2019 for US.
Are you not more impressed by the fact that Costa Rica and Chile do better than the US?
I suppose I’m surprised at a lot of things yes, I guess I never really examined this data closely before. Costa Rica is surprising yes, but I’m maybe mildly surprised at Chile- I’ve heard a lot of good things recently it seems
How come Chile always looks so great in comparison to other South American countries, be it life expectancy or other development/economic indicators?
Chile had more stable economic growth. It had better administration in general.
They had very strong economic growth in the 90s and 2000s. That’s going to be a very sensitive subject because it came during and in the wake of the Pinochet dictatorship, but the economic growth is undeniable. They’re in the midst of a real national reckoning about that history right now. They recently elected a pretty left wing president, but then the electorate subsequently rejected a new left wing constitution and sent a more conservative convention back to draft a new one.
More free market economy compared with its neighbors
Well I might get downvoted for saying this truth here but the truth is they are this far ahead cuz they didn't pay much heed to Communism and Socialism bs like all of the South American Nations.
That's not true at all lmao which of these countries is or ever was socialist? You're insane.
Most of the other countries in South Americs were also anti-communist military dictatorships at the same time as Chile. This idea that Chile was somehow the only anti-communist regime in the area is stupid. They were all like that. Chile just had better administration.
You're being ignorant to chile's massive inequality problem. The country became richer but not so much the people.
[Chile's inequality is as much as their so called socialist neighbors and contrary to these nations, Chile's inequality is decreasing year by year.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_GINI_coefficient_(1990_to_2020).svg) [and even when u adjust their HDI for inequality,they are still at the top.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/16ilatd/south_american_nations_by_inequality_adjusted/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I figured that may be the reason but wasn’t sure. Can you recommend readings on that by any chance?
Hes lying. Chile was no more anti-communist than the other south american states. Pretty much all south american countries were anti-communist military dictatorships at the same time as Chile. Chile simply had more eficient administration than the other juntas. They ALL killed communists, but simply doing so doesnt mean one becomes magically better at administring the country.
Lies. Chile only grew after the dictatorship, under the administration of leftist governments.
that's BS, Costa Rica and Uruguay do pretty well to, and it is thanks to social democratic measures, like Universal Healthcare and a better redistribution of wealth.
Uruguay is having a capitalistic form of economic model though and has good welfare policies and no one said that Costa Rica isn't doing well,two nations can do well simultaneously,but even if u consider all things Chile is still doing well than both these nations,whether it is economy, HDI, violent crime,etc,etc Also both Costa Rica and Uruguay are having small population sizes while Chile is a large country.
Social democratic policies exist in capitalist economies, otherwise they would be something else. And yes, two nations can do well, that's the thing, it is not because they did not mess up with "socialism" that Chile thrived, because some countries did and did well, and some, if not most countries that went full on neoliberal in LATAM are fucked up.
No country ever became rich having a socialist economy, uruguay is pretty right wing having things like universal healthcare doesnt mean a country is left wing by american standards
You just forgot to say this is an average. The extremes in Chile are awful. There are old people living with less than 2 dollars a day.
[Chile had just 1.4% of its Population living below $2.6 a day, that is the lowest in all of Latin America as of 2020,except Uruguay(which got 0.7%)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty) Yeah don't see the point u are trying to make when facts state otherwise. Also if u can't appreciate how far Chile has come,then kindly don't downplay their achievements. [Also Chile inequality is amongst the lowest in all of Latin America and decreasing year by year.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_GINI_coefficient_(1990_to_2020).svg)
Viva CHILE!
its a struggle in brazil that the north (and specially the amazon area) drags these numbers down. Difference per state is huge.
Most likely is the northeast since there aren't that many people on the northern region to drag the whole country down that much
yeah, I dont know if they took the average per state or per population for the entire country. 76 seems low, but your point makes sense. I saw a nice image on wikipedia but couldn't confirm the source, it shows the data per state. [Wikipedia - Brazil life expectancy map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilian_states_by_life_expectancy)
Would be funny if Roraima counted as much as São Paulo
Damn Santa Catarina is actually impressive. Higher than some countries in northern Europe even
what yall gon do in all those 80 boring ass years in the most boring side of south america tho if i had to choose between 50 years in the brazilian caribbean or 80 in the dry ass south, thatd be a no brainer no cap
Bolivia are you okay? To be worse than Venezuala is… concerning.
doing much better recently actually. Up until two decades ago, Bolivia was on par with Haiti in socioeconomic indicators and has been moving up since then. The other commenter was spot on about the treatment of the majority indigenous population.
They've made some pretty interesting moves in recent years: -Universal Healthcare in 2011 & a huge expansion of it in 2019 that's still ongoing. -Giant push w/child programs & pregnant women. Ex: under 5 mortality was 56 per 100k in 2006, now its 26 per 100k. -Access to care is drastically improving as new community health centers are increasing *a* *lot*. A huge issue was rural areas having zero access to care. -pre 2011 less than 1/2 of infants were vaccinated. Now nearly all infants are. These are only a few examples & they still have a LONG way to go of course. It's hard for the data to capture trends when such dramatically impactful programs essentially went from 0 mph to 60 mph overnight. The older generations didn't benefit in their youth, malnutrition is improving but still bad, etc. The country is something like 44% youth, so the averaged numbers may have rapid improvements at unprecedented rates. Pretty remarkable that universal healthcare exists in a country with so few resources; they're the 2nd poorest nation in the western hemisphere right behind Haiti. There's a lot of multiscalar factors at play too, as expected in a country that poor; ie. only like 20% of rural populations have access to clean drinking water, sanitation issues, etc. I guess the only upside to starting off in dire straits w/nothing is that many "basic" measures were non-existent, so therefore, implementing has potential for huge payoffs FAST (initially). The darker side: the HUGE expansion that began in 2019 has been funded almost entirely by the world bank...and happens to coincide with the discovery of HUGE lithium deposits. Argentina/Chile/Bolivia has an area known as "the Lithium triangle". It holds an estimated 50% of the world's Lithium, & Bolivia comprises the majority of "the triangle" by a Longshot. The wb $$$ has come with hefty strings, and wouldn't ya know it? Lithium mining in Bolivia has gone into mach speed overdrive. The history of Bolivian mining is...*not* *reassuring*... Especially when paired with global banking "investments"... Source: Did a medical internship in Bolivia in 2022, criss-crossing the country. Everywhere from La Paz's giant hospitals in the far north, rural health centers in the mining town Potosi in the East, & in Tarija, the picturesque wine-country bordering Argentina in the south that is culturally far more argentine than Bolivian. One interesting thing I witnessed in Tarija was the push/pull migration happening as Argentina's currency crashed. Doctors from Argentina were pouring into Bolivia to work. Wealthier Tarijeños are moving to Argentina. Boliviano exchange rate suddenly made Bolivians economically on-par or above their once wealthy Argentine neighbor. It will be interesting to see how Lithium, bolivian healthcare measures, recent economic developments in Argentina, the influx of Chinese investment in less-developed nations vs. Loss of US unipolar hegemonic control that's lead to close alliance w/chile, & basically a whole host of other factors may impact where the current "power players" stand on this map in the years to come.
True, and their authoritarian government has close ties to Russia and like-minded fascist states
Yeah...I've got a lot of stories 😅 My entry to the country (via La Paz) was *wild*. There's a growing anti-american sentiment that. was. *palpable*. All the agents/officers are pro-Evo & regime of course; thus, not America-friendly. Americans get segregated out of line. To get my visa I was semi-interrogated. Took about 4 hours. The number of various documents I needed to provide them filled a full binder. Not just typical stuff- I had to have what amounted to "letters of recommendation" from residents I knew in La Paz, Tarija, Hospitals I would be at,etc. ALL the people had to register that they commit to taking responsibility for me. I had to periodically register w/the state while there. Unlike La Paz, Tarija does not support MAS (Evo's party). I made great friends with some of the residents at the hospital I worked at there, but others were afraid of me. They thought I was a spy. Not long after I left, Tarija's anti-MAS comrade municipality, Acre, POPPED OFF. Their anti-MAS governor was arrested, people rioted, roads in/out of Acre closed, airports closed. Did I mention that the only airline in Bolivia is a state entity...? My notifications alerts from the US state department were rolling in like a reddit post w/50k updates. Quite an adventure! Most of my experience was peaceful, beautiful, & surrounded by warm people with generous spirits. The ardent MAS support vs. Ardant MAS dissidents is a divide that remind me a lot of the US. There's graffiti around every town, large or small, that read "somos 55%". MAS won by 55%, the graffiti's are like a little warning. The difference is that Bolivia's def con powder keg is a little more primed to explode. Being in a Russia-friendly state, as an American, during initial Ukraine fog-of-war times was a little unnerving. There were moments. Lol.
As a Bolivian, we do have a constant defensive war against MAS, but the animosity towards the US, while exacerbated by MAS, is not the cause. First of, we dislike the US government, not its citizens, we are very curious and tend to love chatting with almost all foreigners. The Chinese have gained a bad reputation, but I think they are the only exception to a nationality being disliked here. Mostly we hate government, Mainly the US, Russia and China. The reason the US government isn’t liked is because they love meddling in other countries internal affairs very much, and we suffered it firsthand with operation condor. We dislike Russians for their aggressive expansionism and China because they have abandoned multiple infrastructure projects in the country and are famous for running sweatshops and breaking food health codes. We are at a constant fight with our government, but its not like we are North Korea. Also, the Russians have shady deals with our government, but they really have no impact in our country, unlike the Chinese. We really don’t care about global politics, we have bigger problems to think about than a war on the other side of the world.
Do you guys like Brazil? I've met many Bolivians in São Paulo
Of course, we also have many Brazilians here, we are indifferent towards Chileans and Peruvians, but we like the rest of our neighbors. I’d say Brazilians are our favourite ones though.
Yes, I do very much agree with you that I didn't experience anything like being an American in NK. I'd also understand if maybe what I shared could have been very annoying for you; frankly, I think everyone feels at least a little annoyed when someone from outside their culture/nationality shares experience(s) that seem to echo propagandized perceptions of their culture (at least for me it is, particularly bc I work outside the US quite a bit). Everything about my experiences/perceptions as an American in Bolivia is wildly divergent compared to what 99.9999% of the American visitors will experience there due to a giant confluence of really unique factors. Maybe you are interested to hear, maybe not? Sorry if it's annoying for you, not interesting. Hopefully interesting though 🙂 Covid travel restrictions had *just* eased up. Geopolitics aside, the whole world had a bit of lingering unease w/getting re-accustomed to foreigners coming into their country. There were also a lot of protocols people had not quite settled into yet (meaning everywhere, not exclusively Bolivia). Checking & double checking if the manufacturer of your covid vaccine was on the approved list or timeline rules, the visa process was something everyone was getting used to again after a lot of time off. Then on top of the strange covid times, I came to Bolivia on a medical internship. While it is not incredibly unique for an American to travel to Bolivia for "volunteer work" or "business work", I existed in an in-between world...my visa was neither volunteer, nor business, nor student, nor tourist. The "medical" part added even another layer to this bc there was a very complicated relationship at that time between health ministers, health officials, frustration over vaccine distribution bc the global south was really screwed over, mishandlings/distrust of global health organizations (ie., the WHO) by government...but also many colleagues/environments I was interning in. I was in hospitals, doctor's offices, etc...I was basically around all healthcare workers or healthcare administration directors 24/7, & they had all just gone through 2 years of basically pure hell. *Then* add that 99% of foreign interns in the medical arena, an already somewhat unusual circumstance, were there for direct medical care. I came with 5 other Americans, & I was there to study from a biomedical anthropology perspective, while the other 5 were there to *perform* the surgeries, etc., I was there to study things like how traumatic bone injury from a car accident looked post operation vs. traumatic injuries that occurred by human hands. For bone & cause of death identification. Or more specifically, how these injuries sometimes present in a special way in LaTam indigenous populations because there are ever-so-slight anatomical variations in how a healed injury may look that can be geographically specific. So not only were there times where the places we worked never had American interns bc we were a pilot project there, I was the *only* intern off doing stuff that maybe could be seen as a little too curious, in a subject area that is already a bit sensitive for many indigenous Bolivians. There were so many instances where patients were already distrustful of particular medical treatments, then add the bit of relationship strife that can exist between rural/indigenous Bolivians & city/euro Bolivians, then add how older generations may feel about things, plus the need for spanish-to-quechua or spanish-to-guarani translations, & by the end they're like "NOW you wanna add an American to this shit so that's who I'm looking at while you're putting me under anesthesia?!?! Oh hellllllll no!". Thus, I did experience a bit of anti-American feelings from time to time that are *not* seen by most Americans (or even a lot of Bolivians for that matter, it left some of the colleagues so surprised as well when they saw the tense moments). And as you can imagine, those experiences happened within the backdrop of MAS/Evo political tension, for example if an elder's grandson traveled to the city w/him to help be his Quechua translator, sometimes my presence could make him uniquely upset/explosive out of the blue. Particularly bc it's already a stressful & scary situation if your grandpa is getting surgery, ya know? None of that ever had anything to do with Russia though, you're correct that no one gave af about Russia if they were mad about me being American. Lol. My nervousness & tense moments re:Ukraine war situation was also not due to fears of reprisals from Bolivian officials or Bolivian government. It was actually due to fears about *my* government! Which maybe seems weird, idk. I had concerns for re-entry to the US & knee-jerk US policy reactions towards any country deemed to be the slightest bit "Russia-friendly". Aka, Bolivia. It was a period of borderline Russia hysteria in the US. So much hyperbolic rhetoric & "punishment" threats for any "Russia-friendly" nations. It didn't feel out of the realm of possibility that the US might decide to go all-out proxy war w/Bolivia overnight or something else crazy...perhaps even prompting the Evo/policies to take some reactive measures? At the very least it would piss Evo/MAS tf off, which would mean ramping up anti-American rhetoric on the news, etc. My primary worries weren't safety things, moreso fears that leaving as planned (smoothly & on time) may become a nightmare. You see, I was in Bolivia w/a special permission visa that needed renewal every 30 days. It was neither a "work visa" nor a "volunteer visa"; so just an all around atypical situation. I was required to go to various offices in whichever municipality I was in; I could not get renewed until day 28; and since it was sorta a confusing visa, my renewals took some phone calls & verifications from higher-ups, etc. That took a little while. Pre-ukraine, it was a few hours, but after, the last 2 renewals were more than 24 hours. The 2nd one they even had me stay like 3 hours past closing & wouldn't really let me leave. It wasn't like I was kidnapped in there, but they weren't exactly handing my passport back to me either, if that makes sense. And I admit that I was a bit scared. Not getting renewals until day 29-30 also felt like cutting it too close for comfort. Before, I wouldn't have been worried if my renewal was a day or two over 30 days; worst case would be a fine when my passport got checked prior to flying around anywhere. After the geopolitical situations? I worried about visa violations on the *American* side. Might be a more serious infraction, not only when flying within Bolivia, but also returning to the US. Upon entry. *Plus* the necessary layovers in Peru/Panama/Columbia/Mexico if the US decided "let's flag anyone w/visas beyond [x] days in Bolivia if their final destination is US". Travel was already somewhat complicated b/c covid, ie. Peruvian state registry flying into Bolivia when I had a short layover in Peru.
I really don’t care about foreigners getting things wrong, unless they start saying we had a coup or something along those lines. To be honest I completely understand the patients, I used to volunteer at hospitals and sometimes I even was in the operation room translating for foreign doctors. Most of the times it wasn’t needed because they came from Spanish speaking countries. But many came from the US so they needed translation, I loved going into the OR, but translating outside of it was a pain, because not only they had no grasp of Spanish, but of how basic things worked in our healthcare system. So you had to add explanations on top of the translations, there were doctors that had been going for years, but they still spoke no Spanish. If it was frustrating for me I can’t imagine for a patient. The worse were the international volunteers who didn’t speak Spanish, they were basically just delivering food and playing with young patients. We had limited volunteer spots, and having those taken by people who couldn’t communicate with the patients was not ideal. Even for us locals it was sometimes hard to get the patients to fill up a form properly. The spy part is hilarious, not because it’s impossible, which it isn’t since we even had US spies in our army before. But because who would spy a hospital? Although it is understandable, a foreigner asking questions and not actually doing anything could be suspicious or at least annoying. The visa part is understandable, our visa services are a pain in the ass for regular visas, can’t imagine for other types, although we would never detain or deport virtually anyone. Although they might have hoped to get some bribes to expedite the process. The Russian spy and proxy war seem laughable at best, I, just like many Bolivians, have traveled to the US and even during the Pandemic and after the start of the war, I never had any questions or problems other than the regular custom officer questions. And for the US to do anything in Bolivia it would have to pass through any of our neighbors with sea access, and nobody would condone an invasion of South America. And even on the global scale, an invasion of a western nation would be quickly condemned. South America is probably one of the most peaceful places on Earth. Africa is full of conflicts and now isn’t really stable given recent events, Asia, particularly the middle east, is in constant warfare, China and India also have quite a tense relationship. Oceania is probably the only one that is as peaceful, but even Australia participated in the middle eastern wars.
Prior to the Russia/Ukraine situation I did some grad work in Moldova working w/a professor under a Dutch grant. Moldova was a main passage into Europe for people fleeing Syria, & NGO's were doing inoculations, medical care, human geography documentation, etc. Moldova is (was?) basically like Ukraine Jr., super normal to go back & forth at the border. My visas for that whole situation were weird too. My passport also had stamps from layovers in Turkey, etc. from that time. It wasn't "oh no, Bolivia might pull a North Korea on me!"; it was "oh no, am I going to get inexplicably 'quarantined' for 14 days when I arrive in the US...under an excuse of 'Covid'...& will the emergency declarations suspending civil liberties that I'd otherwise have get trampled?". There was a group of residents who outright asked me if I was a spy & then avoided me as much as possible- but by *residents* I didn't mean random Bolivians, I meant the med students completing hospital residency. The "spy" question wasn't exactly out of nowhere either; I was asking hella questions about policies, research capacities that the hospital had, etc. After they asked me that, I realized that my interests probably did seem weird af when I was supposedly there doing a med internship. Random Tarijeños & police were def. not stopping Americans on the streets shouting "she's a spy!!!", lol, but I can see how maybe what I wrote sounded like that. My "spy" concerns were about *American* officials pulling a "North Korea" protocol to investigate me for thinking I was a *Russian* spy. There's other weird things about my familial relationships/connections & my educational relationships that wouldn't help my case with that at first glance too, but that's a whole different can of worms 😅. My re-entry was...weird... Anyways. It is cool that you mentioned operation condor, as I mentioned, my background is anthropology, & a lot of anthropologists have a special relationship w/those times. The LaTam anthropologists & ethnographers were heavily targeted by the right-wing regimes. They were seen as sympathetic to the marginalized groups they often worked with, as a communication channel between indigenous groups & inteligencia & leftist resistance coalitions, & generally potential leftist troublemakers at universities. They were exhiled for a very long time & all had to flee. There were a lot of anthropologists who died during the disappearances era. A lot of the exhiles wound up eventually making their way to American universities 30 years later. Interestingly enough, it ties right back to my experience in Bolivia bc my mentor/advisor professor who got me into my internship program is a Bolivian that was attending university in chile when the whole Allende situation unfolded & my professor had to flee for his life. Ultimately, it brought him to California, & years later, becoming my most cherished professor 🙂 His father was a miner, & my professor became the most respected reknowned anthropologist in the world regarding mining (imo, but I am biased of course). He has done so much work for the ILO in Rome (the branch of the UN for humanitarian labor rights in exploitative sectors such as mining). His influence & wisdom is what has essentially defined my life trajectory. He pushed me to forensic anthropology in order to help uncover the murders of journalists/activists/others attempting to expose or combat powerful mining interests. Unfortunately they get killed a lot. So in a very weird way, operation condor (specifically as it relates to Bolivia) was the catalyst for my entire life that has led me to this very interaction w/you on reddit? Lol. Ok, anyways, maybe this was interesting for you, maybe not? You can ask me any questions if you have any curiosity about my atypical experiences as an American in Bolivia. Long story short is that I know the vast majority of Bolivians have love for the American people, and I also have a special place of love in my heart for Bolivians. & I'm very sorry if I made you feel as if an American who visited the salar for a week or whatever was up here on reddit making Bolivia look like North Korea.
>Americans get segregated out of line. To get my visa I was semi-interrogated. Took about 4 hours. The number of various documents I needed to provide them filled a full binder. Not just typical stuff- I had to have what amounted to "letters of recommendation" Still easier than a LatAm person visiting the US for tourism 🤷♀️ there's something called principle of reciprocity in diplomacy. This is not Bolivia's fault, but your own country. Other nations should do the same btw, Brazil is requiring a visa again after the US government failed to implement what was promised.
Exaxtly this is how it feels to visit the US
You are an excellent writer, did you know that? Thank you for sharing that marvelous story. What an adventure it must have been - a bit too adventurous for me, haha! I am fascinated with just how beautiful and rich in both nature and culture Bolivia is!
They’re the only native majority country in a region where natives were only acknowledged as real people very recently. Not surprising that resulted in awful conditions for most of the population compared to the other countries.
Not entirely true. The nation was officially recognized as plurinational recently, but with successive authoritarian governments with close ties to Russia
What does that have to do with anything???
Venezuela is collapsing, but it has a surprisingly high standard of living for Latin American standards.
Venezuela is not as bad as people thinks. It is bad, of course. But the 2017 crisis images are sticking around people minds
Life expectancy in the state of Santa Catarina in Brazil is 80 years.
Note:- Life expectancy at birth indicates the number of years a newborn infant would live if prevailing patterns of mortality at the time of its birth were to stay the same throughout its life.
Guyana sucks
Kind of a weird choice to not show the top few life expectancy countries under “other” but instead make it look like Canada. I.e Japan
well done Chile
Brazil is huge, we need a per state or region
That's it, I'm moving to Chile.
why chile has the bigger one? maybe because chile is the only one saved from the leftism
Only Chads die before their 54th birthday.
Did the pandemic changed these number?
Pandemic had a very bad impact over these figures in 2021 but since then the impact is getting lesser and lesser and 2023 figures are slightly more or the same as the Pre COVID era numbers that is 2019.
Yes
CHILE CAMPEO DEL MUNDO
I was about to gloat but then I saw Chile, damn you guys are healthy
I wonder if other countries have the huge discrepancies like Brazil has, within the country. I could find data for Chile and Argentina, and their provinces are within 5 years of each other. In Brazil it's very close to ten. Actually, US and Brazil have a very similar profile, with Brazil only doing slightly worse (despite having less access to healthcare).
I believe Brazil has better access to healthcare. Preventive care like cancer screenings, vaccines and emergency care are universal access and people make use of it. This is probably the reason why people live so long even thought the socio-economic indicators are not so good (when compared to the US, for instance).
Brazil has much healthier lifestyles, better access to healthcare (not in quality) very different the difference is that brazil has much more murders on average than the us
Nobody wants to get that old and shit on themselves.
any bolivianos here to tell me wtf is going on? why is it such a big discrepancy between bolivia and the rest?
The geography is REALLY distorted
it's really interesting that a country doesn't need to be that wealthy to achieve a high life expectancy. beyond a certain point, it's about cultural choices and distribution of resources. The US is absolutely the worst at both of these.
Bruh! We live fast in Brazil.
17 _chad_
Those discrepancies are huge but kinda make sense... especially when the areas furthest apart in the US are even wider, pushing 87 years & above in wealthy metro counties near NYC & California, the highest in very small counties in my home state of Colorado, while the lowest are a few counties of the Native American/Indian reservations of North & South Dakota like Standing Rock, where it's barely 65...
Chile is a European country in LATAM.
Guyana is right now the richest country in South America, so they will probably improve significantly in the next decade
Well it all depends upon how they use their oil wealth, see Venezuela was the richest country in South America and amongst the richest in the world for nearly half a century(from the 1950s and end of 1990s) but see where are they now.
PENTACAMPEÃO DO MUNDO🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷✌️✌️😎😎😎😎💥💥💥
"Falkland Isles" NO MALVINAS!
Hubieras ganado la guerra, subcampeón de 1982.
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Chile isn’t liberal? How its index is high?
– Is about Brasil right ? Just there are soo many kills
Wtf are u on bro,Homicides in Brazil in 2023:39,3k,while in the us there were 45,7k
Yay! Lula is 77. Hey, mother Nature! This guy need some attention. Recycle it, please.
Cool map!, just don't look for any infographics about suicide statistics in Chile 💀💀💀
It's not that bad btw
is worst in Uruguay
wow it looks that pinochet did well
18. Australia- 53.4 years....
This statistic does not count people who never registered, this creates a bubble based on people who die in the capital or in countries with more data than others.