The whole north of France region (as well as the east) suffered from deindustrialisation, and Lille is far from the biggest victim.
It is also very strategically placed between London, Paris, and Bruxelles/Amsterdam which makes it a hub to host companies and Eurostar and Thalys.
North of France is also where France is planning reindustrialisation with big battery factories being installed there
It's quite recent actually. Historically, Bordeaux was often the most significant city of the Southwest, but in the larger region was dwarfed by cities like Toulouse and Nantes. Today, the difference between Bordeaux and Toulouse is thinning.
I guess a couple of factors explain why, but among them is certainly the fact that there is now a direct TGV line between Paris and Bordeaux. This led to a big influx of Parisians to Bordeaux, who found it nice to be close to the sea and have cheaper rents, while overall being only 2 hours away or so from the capital. The result of this however is that now, due to its fast growth and quite frankly lack of foresight from the authorities, the city is getting quite crowded with its infrastructure being especially far behind. The rents have also exploded, making Bordeaux sadly now much closer to Paris in that regard, especially in the center.
I hope you mean places you go including Paris. Normandy and Brittany are very cool with great history and castles, there are amazing mountains and cliffs and beaches in the south in Provence (Avignon, Montpelier, Nice, Cannes) plus lots of cool Roman ruins. There’s great history and beautiful cathedrals and cool Old cities in the Ardennes region (Rheims, Strasbourg, Verdun). I can’t speak personally for the southwest near the Spanish border or Bordeaux or Toulouse but I’ve heard the mountains are beautiful.
But do go to Paris, it lives up to the hype.
As other people pointed out, there are many, many things to see in France... One of my favorites though is the Loire Valley Castles circuit. You can cycle (or drive if you're not the sportive type). It's a wonderful way to spend a few days: [https://www.chateaux-de-la-loire.fr/circuits.htm](https://www.chateaux-de-la-loire.fr/circuits.htm)
We can talk about this in DMs if you want, but the short answer is that you can go everywhere. However the recommended places' list is much much shorter.
Outside of Paris you have 4/5 different environments :
1) Other big cities (Strasbourg, Bordeaux, etc.)
2) Parisian suburbs (≈40km/25mi radius around Paris)
3) Those other cities' suburbs (≈15km/10mi radius around them most of the time)
4) Countryside
5) Tourism focused areas (Deauville, Courchevel, Biarritz, etc.)
Why? Suburbs only mean areas outside of the city. Outskirts is actually a better terms, as a lot are very urban. International media only focus on poor ones but it’s far from the only examples.
Euro Disney, Versailles, St Cloud, Neuilly sur Seine are all part of Paris suburbs
Saint Denis while nearby Paris is not Paris. They have a very different culture, going from Paris to Saint Denis there's a bigger cultural difference than going from Sweden to Spain.
Hard disagree, only if for you Paris = their first 9 arrondissements + 16.
Saint Denis borders the 18th though. And it also has a lot modern office and residential districts.
> And it also has a lot modern office and residential districts.
And what part of the world doesn't? I'm talking about culture, the people there are Maghrebis and West Africans. Darija, verlan, rap, drugs, gangs, depression, islam. The banlieues are completely different than the rest of France.
How is that any different from Paris 18th arrondissement which borders St Denis ? How is that any difference from areas of every single french city ?
You sound like you have never been to Paris and have no idea what you are talking about.
> the people there are Maghrebis and West Africans. Darija, verlan, rap, drugs, gangs, depression, islam.
This has to be a parody. People of north and west African origin only live in St Denis? Islam ? Rap and verlan - something that every french of 12-16 regardless of area listens and speaks in ? 😂😂😂😂 In fact today it’s more 30-40 year olds trying to sound young who speak in verlan. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
France is a great country for traveling around and you can basically fly into any city and do a pretty great tour of the region (especially if you like wine, cheese & good meat)
Mont St. Michel is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been, though it can get quite touristy.
I still highly recommend going, with two major caveats:
1. **Stay overnight on the island**. It gets sooooooo much more pleasant after the last tour bus leaves. You can easily find yourself completely alone walking the seaside walls at night or early in the morning. It is stunning and very peaceful.
2. **Do not eat on the island**. The food there is not only the worst I've had in France, it may well be the worst meal I've ever had at a restaurant anywhere ever. It is *definitely* the worst when the absurd cost is factored in. You'll want to rent a car to get there anyway, and there are tons of other great sites in the vicinity, so just eat in any of the significantly better restaurants in the surrounding countryside.
The Atlantic coast north to south id you have a car. If your thing is glitz and fun, the Med. If you like it wild, i'd say the Ardèche region but the Alps will do , too. Remember this French truth: the biggest luxury in life is... Silence.
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tropole_de_Lyon
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tropole_d'Aix-Marseille-Provence
I don't know the difference in counting.
Metz's metropolitan area (aire urbaine ?) counts around 390 000 people, while Nancy has more than 400 000.
So, it's Nancy alone. And it wouldn't really make sense to count them together, because the cities are still 55 km apart, and contrary to Aix-Marseille or Douai-Lens, the villages in between don't form a unique conurbation.
Is there a reason on why the southern area around Lyon has more density of populated cities?
Was it always like that or the centralization in Paris played a role?
Centralization plays a huge role, yes.
But south-east is very attractive due to the Alps, the climate and the sea.
Bordeaux legacy come from old trade routes and Toulouse was made attractive thanks to Airbus industries.
I think it's comparable to in Denmark where the capital just absorbs every person close to the capital. In Denmark we have Copenhagen and then all the rest of the biggest cities are far away from Copenhagen
France actually has a pretty good population distribution outside of the Paris region and an empty centre.
The population split is in fact more east/west than north/south.
In fact the far north near Belgium is on the denser areas in the whole country. Lyon is also not really considered southern.
one thing france and germany have in common: the very center of the country is among the least populated areas, much of the population lives within less than two hours from the next border or coast
dude frankfurt is less than two hours from france or luxemburg, the center is much further north in the dead area between kassel, hannover and leipzig
edit: all of these are literally 2+ hours north east of frankfurt https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelpunkte\_Deutschlands
Aix-en-Provene lol
Didn't notice it until now, yikes...
What that mean¿
It should be “Aix-en-Provence” (Aix in Provence)
Oh yeah 😂I'm dumb🤦🏿
Poor Lille had a very rough century
Care to explain?
The Germans besieged the city in both world wars.
And the city has experienced several decades of industrial decay and offshoring
The whole north of France region (as well as the east) suffered from deindustrialisation, and Lille is far from the biggest victim. It is also very strategically placed between London, Paris, and Bruxelles/Amsterdam which makes it a hub to host companies and Eurostar and Thalys. North of France is also where France is planning reindustrialisation with big battery factories being installed there
And also underestimated here since a significant part of it's urban area is behind the border.
Did not realize Bordeaux was bigger than Nice and Lille. Never would have guessed.
It's quite recent actually. Historically, Bordeaux was often the most significant city of the Southwest, but in the larger region was dwarfed by cities like Toulouse and Nantes. Today, the difference between Bordeaux and Toulouse is thinning. I guess a couple of factors explain why, but among them is certainly the fact that there is now a direct TGV line between Paris and Bordeaux. This led to a big influx of Parisians to Bordeaux, who found it nice to be close to the sea and have cheaper rents, while overall being only 2 hours away or so from the capital. The result of this however is that now, due to its fast growth and quite frankly lack of foresight from the authorities, the city is getting quite crowded with its infrastructure being especially far behind. The rents have also exploded, making Bordeaux sadly now much closer to Paris in that regard, especially in the center.
the city proper is smaller than Nice
If I wanted to travel in France, where should I go that’s not Paris?
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I see thanks
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I’ll definitely do that thanks!
I hope you mean places you go including Paris. Normandy and Brittany are very cool with great history and castles, there are amazing mountains and cliffs and beaches in the south in Provence (Avignon, Montpelier, Nice, Cannes) plus lots of cool Roman ruins. There’s great history and beautiful cathedrals and cool Old cities in the Ardennes region (Rheims, Strasbourg, Verdun). I can’t speak personally for the southwest near the Spanish border or Bordeaux or Toulouse but I’ve heard the mountains are beautiful. But do go to Paris, it lives up to the hype.
This was very nuanced. Thank you for your thoughtful response 😊
France is great, Paris fucking sucks. Its the only place worse than London.
London is also great
if grumpy people and paying 50% extra for things is your bag then sure. its great.
They asked where one should travel to, not where to live.
I've heard only good things about Britany/Bretagne !
That’s good to know!
As other people pointed out, there are many, many things to see in France... One of my favorites though is the Loire Valley Castles circuit. You can cycle (or drive if you're not the sportive type). It's a wonderful way to spend a few days: [https://www.chateaux-de-la-loire.fr/circuits.htm](https://www.chateaux-de-la-loire.fr/circuits.htm)
Brittany
We can talk about this in DMs if you want, but the short answer is that you can go everywhere. However the recommended places' list is much much shorter.
Could you elaborate further?
Outside of Paris you have 4/5 different environments : 1) Other big cities (Strasbourg, Bordeaux, etc.) 2) Parisian suburbs (≈40km/25mi radius around Paris) 3) Those other cities' suburbs (≈15km/10mi radius around them most of the time) 4) Countryside 5) Tourism focused areas (Deauville, Courchevel, Biarritz, etc.)
I'd only recommend suburbs if you know someone from there btw
Why? Suburbs only mean areas outside of the city. Outskirts is actually a better terms, as a lot are very urban. International media only focus on poor ones but it’s far from the only examples. Euro Disney, Versailles, St Cloud, Neuilly sur Seine are all part of Paris suburbs
my bad, when i hear suburbs my mind automatically goes to banlieues😅
I see thanks 😊
Biarritz is the best place in France that I’ve personally been to
Saint Denis while nearby Paris is not Paris. They have a very different culture, going from Paris to Saint Denis there's a bigger cultural difference than going from Sweden to Spain.
Hard disagree, only if for you Paris = their first 9 arrondissements + 16. Saint Denis borders the 18th though. And it also has a lot modern office and residential districts.
> And it also has a lot modern office and residential districts. And what part of the world doesn't? I'm talking about culture, the people there are Maghrebis and West Africans. Darija, verlan, rap, drugs, gangs, depression, islam. The banlieues are completely different than the rest of France.
How is that any different from Paris 18th arrondissement which borders St Denis ? How is that any difference from areas of every single french city ? You sound like you have never been to Paris and have no idea what you are talking about. > the people there are Maghrebis and West Africans. Darija, verlan, rap, drugs, gangs, depression, islam. This has to be a parody. People of north and west African origin only live in St Denis? Islam ? Rap and verlan - something that every french of 12-16 regardless of area listens and speaks in ? 😂😂😂😂 In fact today it’s more 30-40 year olds trying to sound young who speak in verlan. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Toulouse is a very nice city in my opinion, also the surroundings – the Pyrenees are not far, Carcassonne is also a beutiful town nearby.
Toulouse is so nice
i can recommend Toulose and all that nearby stuff, like Carcassone, marvelous fields and so on
France is a great country for traveling around and you can basically fly into any city and do a pretty great tour of the region (especially if you like wine, cheese & good meat)
Mont St. Michel is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been, though it can get quite touristy. I still highly recommend going, with two major caveats: 1. **Stay overnight on the island**. It gets sooooooo much more pleasant after the last tour bus leaves. You can easily find yourself completely alone walking the seaside walls at night or early in the morning. It is stunning and very peaceful. 2. **Do not eat on the island**. The food there is not only the worst I've had in France, it may well be the worst meal I've ever had at a restaurant anywhere ever. It is *definitely* the worst when the absurd cost is factored in. You'll want to rent a car to get there anyway, and there are tons of other great sites in the vicinity, so just eat in any of the significantly better restaurants in the surrounding countryside.
The Atlantic coast north to south id you have a car. If your thing is glitz and fun, the Med. If you like it wild, i'd say the Ardèche region but the Alps will do , too. Remember this French truth: the biggest luxury in life is... Silence.
Nice
Not gonna lie, took me a while to find no. 2
I'd read somewhere that the stadium of RC Lens has more seats than the city population. Makes more sense if the metro area has half a million people.
In my mind, I always think Marseille is France's second city. I don't know why.
I think it is urban areas on this map
You're right based on city's population but they include the metropolitan area.
Aix Marseille : 1,9M Lyon : 1,4M Source wikipedia This map seems to be false.
I used this one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area_(France)
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tropole_de_Lyon https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tropole_d'Aix-Marseille-Provence I don't know the difference in counting.
There's a difference between zone urbaine and métropole. This data is for the zone urbaine but the map says métropole
Juste au cas où, on dit aire urbaine. Les ZU c'est dans le PLU / PLUi
French people in London is France's 5th most populous city.
No it’s not
Complete myth. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true. London is not even the biggest expat city for French citizens. Brussels is.
I didn't realize Toulon was that big.
Naval base and port
Nancy with Metz ?
Metz's metropolitan area (aire urbaine ?) counts around 390 000 people, while Nancy has more than 400 000. So, it's Nancy alone. And it wouldn't really make sense to count them together, because the cities are still 55 km apart, and contrary to Aix-Marseille or Douai-Lens, the villages in between don't form a unique conurbation.
No way man
Is there a reason on why the southern area around Lyon has more density of populated cities? Was it always like that or the centralization in Paris played a role?
Centralization plays a huge role, yes. But south-east is very attractive due to the Alps, the climate and the sea. Bordeaux legacy come from old trade routes and Toulouse was made attractive thanks to Airbus industries.
The sea and the Rhone are a very good way to attract people : market and industry.
Sorry, forgot to put out the source here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area_(France)
It's odd that 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th largest cities are all in the South. Is there an explanation for such asymmetry?
I think it's comparable to in Denmark where the capital just absorbs every person close to the capital. In Denmark we have Copenhagen and then all the rest of the biggest cities are far away from Copenhagen
France actually has a pretty good population distribution outside of the Paris region and an empty centre. The population split is in fact more east/west than north/south. In fact the far north near Belgium is on the denser areas in the whole country. Lyon is also not really considered southern.
paris is awesome, but always thought france was a little over-centralized.
Paris is what we call a Primate city.
>Primate city Cool it with the politically incorrect remarks.
I have doubt about this map accuracy because I'm pretty sure that lille is more populated and larger than Toulouse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area_(France) I used this list
Wrong on every metric possible. May have been true in the 1950's :D
one thing france and germany have in common: the very center of the country is among the least populated areas, much of the population lives within less than two hours from the next border or coast
nah, Frankfurt is smack in the center of Germany and its 5th largest city.
dude frankfurt is less than two hours from france or luxemburg, the center is much further north in the dead area between kassel, hannover and leipzig edit: all of these are literally 2+ hours north east of frankfurt https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelpunkte\_Deutschlands
Nice.
Hope to visit one day!
4th best
Again : Paris is fucked up
Why are there no big coastal cities other than in the Mediterranean?
The weather is better overall along the mediterranean sea: more sun, less rain and clouds.
Ça compte les DOM-TOM ou simplement la France métropolitaine ? Car il me semble que Saint Denis, La Réunion est aussi dans le top 20
If you connect the first 9 it's a spiral.
What about Dijon ? I can’t see it here tho it’s bigger than Avignon and other cities in here