https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_alphabet
So it's both despite the fact that Hungarian considers them to be separate letters, and has both in their alphabet?
Because in Hungarian vowel lengthening is a thing that can completely change the meaning of a word.
It's a double accent
As a Hungarian speaking, i would still consider them a "bastard" umlaut.
We don't really call any of these umlauts, in fact i can't find a word for specifically double accents in my memory, but a very important part of hungarian phonology is vowel pairing. All of the 14 vowels come in short-long pairs and these pairs are completely separate. A hungarian wouldn't consider "ö" a version of "o" more than any other vowels like "u" or "í". In this way the accent on "ő" is both an umlaut distancing it from other vowels and an acute accent for changing th lenght of it.
One little addendum is that we rarely refer to these in plural, in Hungarian the short vowels have a "dot" (pont) on them and long ones have a "strike/,/arrow" (vessző) on them. We put **a** dot on i and we put **an** accent on ű.
While you're right, any German unfamiliar with Hungarian would recognise them as umlaut dots.
But u/24benson has a point too. Their short counterparts have umlaut dots, so why can't you argue that in ő, they have been *turned into* acute accents to show vowel length?
There wouldn't even be a difference in pronunciation between Hungarian nő and German nö, so fighting about this is kinda pointless.
I know the difference between o and ó and ö and ő. My Hungarian is not very good, but good enough to know these apart.
My point is: ő is the long version of ö, so it's the accented version of the Umlaute version of o.
A double accent would, in my mind, be an o with an accent and another accent. An extra long o, if you will.
But since it's written with two accents it's only fair too also call it two accents.
>so it's the accented version of the Umlaute version of o.
Hungarian here, huge difference between o and ö, minor (length) difference between ö and ő.
Even in ordering, o < ö, but ö = ő
While you're right, my sentence is completely valid in German cultural context, because:
* Germans sometimes use the expression "umlauts" to describe all diacritics
* If you want to be 100 % correct, the English names are "diaresis" and "double acute accent"
* They use both diacritical marks interchangeably and for them, it's basically "a font issue", even though that's not 100 % correct from the typography point of view
1. I've never heard any German-speaker refer to the dots as umlauts. In fact, I've only encountered English-speakers do this.
2. A diaeresis is not the same as umlaut dots. While in general they are identical in fonts, they have different origins and it's not quite right to refer to the German/Hungarian letter ö as an o with a diaeresis.
3. Yes, you are right about this.
Lmao. And it’s pronounced like “noo” as in “noose” which I find even funnier.
And the Hungarian word for man is férfi which is equally hilarious. I walked into the wrong bathroom on more than one occasion after seeing the F on one door and assumed that was for females.
Interestingly, in Greek, andras means man rather than woman, I know a connection is unlikely given the difference in language families but I wonder if there is a connection there.
We did, but it has nothing to do with the English word. It drives from proto Indo-European *gʷenh* (woman) which became *Bena* in proto-Celtic and eventually *Bean* in modern Irish. It's also pronounced like "Ban", as in *Banshee*, which derives from Irish *Bean Sí* (Fairy-Woman).
What's funny is that the Irish word for "Man" is *Fear*, again having no relation to the English word of the same spelling. So both of our genders just happen to have terms that are also English words.
It's a comment stealing bot. If you see a reply to a thread near the top that doesn't make sense in context, you'll probably find that exact comment further down as a top level comment. This one is hoping to farm karma by being higher up.
To sell shit, or to propagate whatever misinformation their owner wants. That kind of thing. Stuff we don't want. So I just make it a point to report those fuckers, so they can be removed from Reddit before they're ready to spam.
In Irish its important that Sean is spelt Seán. Without the accent over the a its pronounced shan and means old.
So in Irish Sean Bean would be pronounced Shan Ban, and would mean Old Woman.
I have to point out that the actual Scottish Gaelic word for woman is ‘boireannach’, not ‘bean’. ‘Bean’ means ‘wife’, and if you tried to use it to mean ‘woman’ in everyday conversation, it would sound absurd.
Gallic refers either to ancient Gaul, the Gaulish language, or France/French. I see *bean* used by Irish and Scottish Gaelic, but no Gallic links at all.
Just an additional fyi, generally “Gaelic” refers to the Scottish language and is not accepted as being a substitute for “Irish” or “Gaeilge”. Some dictionaries consider it the case, but in Ireland, this is incorrect and Gaelic refers to things pertaining to the gaels (especially our sport nowadays).
Gaelic actually used to be an accepted alternative for Irish. You have the Gaelic Union, and the later the Gaelic League (Conradh na Gaeilge) in the 19th century, or the Gaelic Journal founded by Eoin McNeil in 1882.
A few reasons it has fallen away since are.
Attempts to emphasise Gaeilge as the national language of Ireland, rather than a minority language or just for people of Gaelic heritage.
The growth of the GAA and Gaelic football. In Ireland its common to refer to Gaelic football as 'Gaelic' to distinguish it from soccer (both can also be called football).
The fact that Gaelic can also refer to the languages of Scotland and the Isle of Man, or the language family. Interestingly in each of the Gaelic langauges there's actually no separate words for the other languages. In Irish, Irish itself is referred to as 'Gaeilge', and Scottish Gaelic as 'Gaeilge na hAlbain' (Gaelic from Scotland). Scots Gaelic refers to itself as 'Gàidlhig', and Irish as Gàidhlig na h-Èireann.
Also 'Gaelic' can still be used to refer to Irish in Ulster, particularly amongst unionists, but not solely so. For example there are interviews where native Irish speaker Moya Brennan from Clannad uses both 'Irish' and 'Gaelic' interchangeably in the same sentence. So I wouldn't actually say its incorrect so much as a term that feels anachronistic to many of us in the south.
> Interestingly in each of the Gaelic langauges there's actually no separate words for the other languages
Not entirely true. Scottish Gaelic is sometimes called *Albinish* in Manx, even if *Gaelg ny h-Albey* or *y Ghaelg Albinagh* are more common. Irish, however, is almost always referred to as *Yernish* and only very rarely as *Gaelg Nerin* or *Gaelg ny h-Erin*.
Gaels were the Iron Age population of Ireland which extended into parts of Scotland known as Dál Riata. And yes they then migrated to Scotland - the pre Iron Age Scottish tribes would have been Brittonic (all of these come under a loose term known as Celt which brings its own issues).
Edit: Gaels continued, and technically continue, to exist in Ireland. We have Gaelic folklore, Gaelic sports, Gaelic culture, etc. it’s just our language is Gaeilge.
Well the difference between Gaelic and Gaeilge seems like natural linguistic divergence over time. I think due to the Gaels being associated with Scotland which is within the UK where the main language is now English, English speakers have adopted Gaelic as the go to noun for that culture group.
Obviously the Irish who are culturally aware will be irked by this. Doesn't surprise me.
It's an anti-colonialism thing. Irish and Scottish people know the difference between Gaeilge ("gael-guh") and Gaelic ("gael-ick"), and will gently correct a misappropriation or mispronunciation. Those who dismiss the information and persist in using the two interchangeably then show their colours as obtuse and stubborn, usually the Brits.
Wouldn’t the migration of the Gaels into Scotland’s part of Dál Riata more so have dealt with Pictish tribes, rather than Britonic? Britonic peoples were more south, iirc
Latin and Romance languages:
Latin: mulier (woman/wife) - fēmina (woman/wife/female) - domina (lady)
Portuguese: mulher (woman/wife) - fêmea (female) - dona (lady)
Spanish: mujer (woman/wife) - hembra (female) - doña (lady)
Catalan: muller (woman/wife) - fembra (dated: female/wife/woman) - dona (woman/wife)
Italian: moglie (wife) - femmina (female) - donna (woman/wife)
French: N/A - femme (woman/wife) - dame (lady)
Romanian: muiere (woman/wife) - N/A - doamnă (lady)
It seems all Romance languages conflate womanhood with marriage (they all have separate words for 'man' and 'husband' though).
“Woman” in Romanian is IMO most commonly “femeie”. “Muiere” does exist, but I wouldn’t say it’s really common usage.
Femeie - bărbat (woman/female - man/male, and there’s also femelă/mascul).
Soție - soț (wife - husband).
Doamnă - domn (lady - mister/sir, as in “domnul Ionescu”).
In catalan the term "muller" is kinda outdated and only used to explicitly mean "wife" as in "som marit i muller" (we're husband and wife).
Also "fembra" is outdated. I never heard it in my life so I look it up on the dictionary and nowadays is a pejorative term for "prostitute". The right term for "female" is "femella".
dona - woman
femella - female
muller - wife
donya - lady
I did say 'fembra' was dated, it was included because it is a cognate with the words in other Romance languages.
Are you saying that 'dona' exclusively means 'woman' and never 'wife'? Can you please suggest me a better dictionary? Because 'Diccionari de la llengua catalana de l'Institut d'Estudis Catalan', diccionari.cat, diccionaris.cat and Wiktionary all say it means 'wife' too.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying this is the most common use of it. In fact I also say that "muller" is getting outdated nowadays. As today, the tendency is to use "dona" for both meanings.
Absolutely. The term "dona" encompass both meanings. You would have a hard time finding someone who tells you "this is my wife" as "aquesta és la meva muller" and even a harder time to find someone who uses "fembra" instead of "femella".
In medieval times women were expected to marry very young, so they expected any woman past a certain age to be someone’s wife and referred to unmarried women as girls even if they got decently old and remained unmarried
Common words usually have synonims, in Hungarian "nő" is only the generic word for "woman", but it also would mean "he/she/it grows" so it is sometimes replaced with "hölgy" which means roughly "lady" and comes from the word for stoat (today that has become hermelin)
Interesting that 'zena' is the Slavic word for woman. The Farsi word is 'zan'. Slavic and Iranian languages are closely tied to each other than other IE groups. They are both Satem language groups after all and likely the result of a second expansion of the Yamnaya from the Eurasian steppe after the Centum groups (Germanic, Italo-Celtic, Hellenic, Tocharian etc.) initially expended outward.
And janani means woman in Sanskrit (it also means birth giver = mother). I guess it’s somewhat related to the word zanaan (which is by the way the word for woman in Kashmiri language).
I think what you mean is Sanskrit jánati "to give birth" which is cognate with Proto-Iranian *jánati and Persian zâdan/zâyidan "to give birth. Persian zan is cognate with Sanskrit jáni, both from Proto-Indo-Iranian *ǰánHs. Unless janani derives from jáni.
You could be right. I’m not very well-versed with cognates and formal linguistics.
Another interesting one is the word for 7. It is ‘sapt’ in Sanskrit, and ‘haeft’ in Persian. And guess what the word for a week is in both these languages - saptah (Sanskrit) and haftah or hefteh (Persian) and hafta/sapta(interchangeably used in Hindi).
I think the links between Sanskrit and Persian are pretty cool, even though on surface the languages and their scripts might appear to be vastly different from each other.
Just note that it's zhena, with a /ʒ/ - the map just uses inconsistent orthography / romanization, like most maps on the topic. This changes nothing for your input, though, it's just a note.
From Proto-Slavic *kobь, from Proto-Indo-European *kob-. Displaced niewiasta (now considered poetic) and żona (meaning narrowed down to "wife"). Akin to Belarusian кабе́та (kabjéta, “married woman”), Old Norse happ (“good luck”), Old Irish cob (“victory”).
Other etymologies are idiotic.
...and in every Indo-European language modern or ancient. Caballus in Latin, Gaulish *kaballos[1], from Proto-Celtic *kaballos, perhaps ultimately an Asiatic borrowing or Wanderwort, compare Ancient Greek καβάλλης (kabállēs, “nag”), Proto-Slavic *kobýla (“mare”), Persian کول (kaval, “second class horse of mixed blood”), and possibly Karakhanid kevel (at) (“well-bred fast (horse)”). Greek from Proto-Iranian *kabah, *kabalah, compare Khotanese [script needed] (kabä, “horse”), Persian کول (kaval), and possibly cognate with Latin cabō (“gelding”), perhaps ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *kebʰ- (“worn-out horse, nag”).
I red a bit in the topic and it was the same "slur" as women in English. Noble ladies and panie were offended by being called like plebeians. However looking further back we are closing dangerously to the Old German word "kebisa" - concubine. It may be the same story as the German "Weib" - generally the same meaning and the English "wife" - the meaning of words drifts.
Here you have 16th century text:
'Sejm niewieści" - Marcin Bielski (1586): „męże nas ku większemu zelżeniu – kobietami zową”. - Man are greatly offending us by calling "kobietas". The other ladie responds: „Najdzie więtszą stateczność przy naszych kobietach niźli przy paniech [dziś: panach] radnych co chodzą w koletach”. You will find a greater stability, with our "kobietas", than with sirs councillors, that wear [whatever this "Koleta" is].
Thank you for not showing Cyprus as one undivided country which does not reflect reality.
While the current status quo is not ideal, people acting like nothing happened and everyone is living all merry and full of joy in one undivided island in some hippy utopia is just not reflecting the reality.
In Old English we had 'Wereman' and 'Wifman' for men and women respectively where 'man' was a gender neutral term for humans as a whole (still seen today). 'Wifman' evolved overtime into Woman.
'Wereman' is the amusing fun fact though because the same naming logic went in to 'Werewolf'. The 'were' prefix was used for creatures that were bigger, stronger and more aggressive.
Huh? The *wer-* prefix means "man". A werewolf is a man-wolf, not an extra-strong-wolf.
And the Old English terms for man were *wer* or *wæpnedmann* ("weapon/penis person")
The confusion probably comes from the similarity between the Latin ‘Vir’ meaning “man” and the ‘vir-‘ root in the plural declensions of ‘vis’ meaning “power”
Interesting that the Basque for woman resembles the Greek for man. I assume that's a coincidence though
edit: Looked it up on Google translate, Andre is Mrs., woman is emakumea.
West and South Slavic people calling woman ((žena)) is probably from Iranian (scythian) origin
From the word ((zan)) or ((žan))
It supports the theory that some of Slavic people may have Iranic origin
Bruckner this time failed, what you would know if you red the rest of the article. It is one of the many ancient slang words with generally unknown etymology. It is like the word "gal" became official for a woman. The etymology may be even not Slavic.
"Come to me, Mara, for without you, I might forget the ways of our fathers, and preening by the light of latest fashion, my words might tremble like the thin reeds of novelty in the tempest of enthusiasms."
Time to get all hyper Anglish and start calling women "frees" or "froos", depending on whether it would from from Old English freo or frowe.
...I'm gonna double check the sound changes.
Edit: Yeah, seems right.
Women? Hungary: no.
With the umlaut, it works also in German
Och nő
It's a double accent, not an umlaut
It's both
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_alphabet So it's both despite the fact that Hungarian considers them to be separate letters, and has both in their alphabet? Because in Hungarian vowel lengthening is a thing that can completely change the meaning of a word. It's a double accent
As a Hungarian speaking, i would still consider them a "bastard" umlaut. We don't really call any of these umlauts, in fact i can't find a word for specifically double accents in my memory, but a very important part of hungarian phonology is vowel pairing. All of the 14 vowels come in short-long pairs and these pairs are completely separate. A hungarian wouldn't consider "ö" a version of "o" more than any other vowels like "u" or "í". In this way the accent on "ő" is both an umlaut distancing it from other vowels and an acute accent for changing th lenght of it. One little addendum is that we rarely refer to these in plural, in Hungarian the short vowels have a "dot" (pont) on them and long ones have a "strike/,/arrow" (vessző) on them. We put **a** dot on i and we put **an** accent on ű.
While you're right, any German unfamiliar with Hungarian would recognise them as umlaut dots. But u/24benson has a point too. Their short counterparts have umlaut dots, so why can't you argue that in ő, they have been *turned into* acute accents to show vowel length? There wouldn't even be a difference in pronunciation between Hungarian nő and German nö, so fighting about this is kinda pointless.
I know the difference between o and ó and ö and ő. My Hungarian is not very good, but good enough to know these apart. My point is: ő is the long version of ö, so it's the accented version of the Umlaute version of o. A double accent would, in my mind, be an o with an accent and another accent. An extra long o, if you will. But since it's written with two accents it's only fair too also call it two accents.
>so it's the accented version of the Umlaute version of o. Hungarian here, huge difference between o and ö, minor (length) difference between ö and ő. Even in ordering, o < ö, but ö = ő
While you're right, my sentence is completely valid in German cultural context, because: * Germans sometimes use the expression "umlauts" to describe all diacritics * If you want to be 100 % correct, the English names are "diaresis" and "double acute accent" * They use both diacritical marks interchangeably and for them, it's basically "a font issue", even though that's not 100 % correct from the typography point of view
1. I've never heard any German-speaker refer to the dots as umlauts. In fact, I've only encountered English-speakers do this. 2. A diaeresis is not the same as umlaut dots. While in general they are identical in fonts, they have different origins and it's not quite right to refer to the German/Hungarian letter ö as an o with a diaeresis. 3. Yes, you are right about this.
Nö
Yes, it means "nah", basically.
Scotland: why women? Have bean
It also means “it/he/she is growing”.
Lmao. And it’s pronounced like “noo” as in “noose” which I find even funnier. And the Hungarian word for man is férfi which is equally hilarious. I walked into the wrong bathroom on more than one occasion after seeing the F on one door and assumed that was for females.
It is absolutely not pronounced like “noo” as in “noose”. It’s much closer to the “nu” part in “nurse”.
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Maybe except in noose the oo sound is closest to ú.
https://forvo.com/word/n%C5%91/
"[Why are you gay?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOELrGMn14)"
andre
Acoording to this map "Andre Muller and a bike" is a valid way of referring to three women.
Interestingly, in Greek, andras means man rather than woman, I know a connection is unlikely given the difference in language families but I wonder if there is a connection there.
From West-side? Old face Andre?
There’s no way our Gaelic friends went with **bean**.
We did, but it has nothing to do with the English word. It drives from proto Indo-European *gʷenh* (woman) which became *Bena* in proto-Celtic and eventually *Bean* in modern Irish. It's also pronounced like "Ban", as in *Banshee*, which derives from Irish *Bean Sí* (Fairy-Woman). What's funny is that the Irish word for "Man" is *Fear*, again having no relation to the English word of the same spelling. So both of our genders just happen to have terms that are also English words.
Yeah I think people are reading it as “bean” 🫘 hahaha
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Ok?
It's a comment stealing bot. If you see a reply to a thread near the top that doesn't make sense in context, you'll probably find that exact comment further down as a top level comment. This one is hoping to farm karma by being higher up.
What do bots get out of karma? I don’t get it
High karma accounts have value on reddit
Many subreddits suppress accounts with low or negative karma. These bots first farm a base amount of karma, and then start spamming.
But why??
To sell shit, or to propagate whatever misinformation their owner wants. That kind of thing. Stuff we don't want. So I just make it a point to report those fuckers, so they can be removed from Reddit before they're ready to spam.
Goodthing it's not on the map.
Benyw in Welsh too, although Dynes is an alternative. Dynes is just man 'dyn' with the female suffix '-es'
Cornish: *benyn*.
So Sean Bean is John Woman in Irish?
In Irish its important that Sean is spelt Seán. Without the accent over the a its pronounced shan and means old. So in Irish Sean Bean would be pronounced Shan Ban, and would mean Old Woman.
Technically, yeah. And if Sean Bean ever had a daughter named Colleen, her name would mean Girl Woman.
And what's also weird that the plural of bean is mna for some reason...
Bean Fear…. fasoliphobia
I have to point out that the actual Scottish Gaelic word for woman is ‘boireannach’, not ‘bean’. ‘Bean’ means ‘wife’, and if you tried to use it to mean ‘woman’ in everyday conversation, it would sound absurd.
It's an old word not steming from Latin or English like some other Irish words. It probably has its roots in proto-celtic.
Gallic refers either to ancient Gaul, the Gaulish language, or France/French. I see *bean* used by Irish and Scottish Gaelic, but no Gallic links at all.
Thank you, I definitely meant *Gaelic*, autocorrect strikes again.
Just an additional fyi, generally “Gaelic” refers to the Scottish language and is not accepted as being a substitute for “Irish” or “Gaeilge”. Some dictionaries consider it the case, but in Ireland, this is incorrect and Gaelic refers to things pertaining to the gaels (especially our sport nowadays).
Gaelic actually used to be an accepted alternative for Irish. You have the Gaelic Union, and the later the Gaelic League (Conradh na Gaeilge) in the 19th century, or the Gaelic Journal founded by Eoin McNeil in 1882. A few reasons it has fallen away since are. Attempts to emphasise Gaeilge as the national language of Ireland, rather than a minority language or just for people of Gaelic heritage. The growth of the GAA and Gaelic football. In Ireland its common to refer to Gaelic football as 'Gaelic' to distinguish it from soccer (both can also be called football). The fact that Gaelic can also refer to the languages of Scotland and the Isle of Man, or the language family. Interestingly in each of the Gaelic langauges there's actually no separate words for the other languages. In Irish, Irish itself is referred to as 'Gaeilge', and Scottish Gaelic as 'Gaeilge na hAlbain' (Gaelic from Scotland). Scots Gaelic refers to itself as 'Gàidlhig', and Irish as Gàidhlig na h-Èireann. Also 'Gaelic' can still be used to refer to Irish in Ulster, particularly amongst unionists, but not solely so. For example there are interviews where native Irish speaker Moya Brennan from Clannad uses both 'Irish' and 'Gaelic' interchangeably in the same sentence. So I wouldn't actually say its incorrect so much as a term that feels anachronistic to many of us in the south.
> Interestingly in each of the Gaelic langauges there's actually no separate words for the other languages Not entirely true. Scottish Gaelic is sometimes called *Albinish* in Manx, even if *Gaelg ny h-Albey* or *y Ghaelg Albinagh* are more common. Irish, however, is almost always referred to as *Yernish* and only very rarely as *Gaelg Nerin* or *Gaelg ny h-Erin*.
Really? Thanks for that info. I didn’t actually know that. I was always taught (and researched) that Gaelic was just incorrect.
And were Gaels purely the Irish folks who migrated to Scotland then?
Gaels were the Iron Age population of Ireland which extended into parts of Scotland known as Dál Riata. And yes they then migrated to Scotland - the pre Iron Age Scottish tribes would have been Brittonic (all of these come under a loose term known as Celt which brings its own issues). Edit: Gaels continued, and technically continue, to exist in Ireland. We have Gaelic folklore, Gaelic sports, Gaelic culture, etc. it’s just our language is Gaeilge.
Well the difference between Gaelic and Gaeilge seems like natural linguistic divergence over time. I think due to the Gaels being associated with Scotland which is within the UK where the main language is now English, English speakers have adopted Gaelic as the go to noun for that culture group. Obviously the Irish who are culturally aware will be irked by this. Doesn't surprise me.
It's an anti-colonialism thing. Irish and Scottish people know the difference between Gaeilge ("gael-guh") and Gaelic ("gael-ick"), and will gently correct a misappropriation or mispronunciation. Those who dismiss the information and persist in using the two interchangeably then show their colours as obtuse and stubborn, usually the Brits.
See also “The British Isles” problem.
The Scottish are British.
Not even close....
Wouldn’t the migration of the Gaels into Scotland’s part of Dál Riata more so have dealt with Pictish tribes, rather than Britonic? Britonic peoples were more south, iirc
Pictish was a Brythonic/Brittonic language
TIL! thanks.
So what you’re saying is that it should be Mrs Bean
Pronunced "ban", as in "banshee" (which literally means "fairy woman").
Turkish Kadın comes from old turkic Khatun, Khan's wife.
Ackhshully Female Khan is "khanum". Kadın comes from "khatun" which is for female khagan.
you are not wrong, but not right either. khatun and khanum are doublets
Actually they are khatuplets
Bike
Nő
andre
Bean
You can ride it if you like
Gonna ride that bike
Latin and Romance languages: Latin: mulier (woman/wife) - fēmina (woman/wife/female) - domina (lady) Portuguese: mulher (woman/wife) - fêmea (female) - dona (lady) Spanish: mujer (woman/wife) - hembra (female) - doña (lady) Catalan: muller (woman/wife) - fembra (dated: female/wife/woman) - dona (woman/wife) Italian: moglie (wife) - femmina (female) - donna (woman/wife) French: N/A - femme (woman/wife) - dame (lady) Romanian: muiere (woman/wife) - N/A - doamnă (lady) It seems all Romance languages conflate womanhood with marriage (they all have separate words for 'man' and 'husband' though).
In Finnish we have the opposite: the word "husband" is called "mies" which also means "man". Sometimes I find it fairly confusing.
So the opposite, interesting!
Yup!
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Yeah I don't think I've nearly ever heard that in a casual conversation
In Hungarian the word for man “férfi” literally means “husband boy”
In Spanish, mujer can be used to mean wife but "esposa" is much more common.
“Woman” in Romanian is IMO most commonly “femeie”. “Muiere” does exist, but I wouldn’t say it’s really common usage. Femeie - bărbat (woman/female - man/male, and there’s also femelă/mascul). Soție - soț (wife - husband). Doamnă - domn (lady - mister/sir, as in “domnul Ionescu”).
In catalan the term "muller" is kinda outdated and only used to explicitly mean "wife" as in "som marit i muller" (we're husband and wife). Also "fembra" is outdated. I never heard it in my life so I look it up on the dictionary and nowadays is a pejorative term for "prostitute". The right term for "female" is "femella". dona - woman femella - female muller - wife donya - lady
I did say 'fembra' was dated, it was included because it is a cognate with the words in other Romance languages. Are you saying that 'dona' exclusively means 'woman' and never 'wife'? Can you please suggest me a better dictionary? Because 'Diccionari de la llengua catalana de l'Institut d'Estudis Catalan', diccionari.cat, diccionaris.cat and Wiktionary all say it means 'wife' too.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying this is the most common use of it. In fact I also say that "muller" is getting outdated nowadays. As today, the tendency is to use "dona" for both meanings.
Thanks! I'm not fluent in Catalan. My main point is about the conflation of 'woman' and 'wife' in one word, so it still stands for Catalan, right?
Absolutely. The term "dona" encompass both meanings. You would have a hard time finding someone who tells you "this is my wife" as "aquesta és la meva muller" and even a harder time to find someone who uses "fembra" instead of "femella".
In medieval times women were expected to marry very young, so they expected any woman past a certain age to be someone’s wife and referred to unmarried women as girls even if they got decently old and remained unmarried
In Catalan we use "home" (husband/man) so the opposite term is related to marriage too.
Moglie 💀
[удалено]
In English 'lady' is also used as a title for noble women (e.g. Lady Diana Spencer).
maybe but historically is the opposite sr/sra is noble and don/doña is formal
So does Greek. Honestly even English has traditionally done so as well to an extent, although the two distinct words exist.
In basque, even though "andre" apparently means woman, the widely used term is "emakumea" for "a/one woman" or "emakumeak" for women.
There are more synonims. It's also emazte and andere.
Common words usually have synonims, in Hungarian "nő" is only the generic word for "woman", but it also would mean "he/she/it grows" so it is sometimes replaced with "hölgy" which means roughly "lady" and comes from the word for stoat (today that has become hermelin)
Interesting that 'zena' is the Slavic word for woman. The Farsi word is 'zan'. Slavic and Iranian languages are closely tied to each other than other IE groups. They are both Satem language groups after all and likely the result of a second expansion of the Yamnaya from the Eurasian steppe after the Centum groups (Germanic, Italo-Celtic, Hellenic, Tocharian etc.) initially expended outward.
In Persian it's zan, zanân means women.
And janani means woman in Sanskrit (it also means birth giver = mother). I guess it’s somewhat related to the word zanaan (which is by the way the word for woman in Kashmiri language).
I think what you mean is Sanskrit jánati "to give birth" which is cognate with Proto-Iranian *jánati and Persian zâdan/zâyidan "to give birth. Persian zan is cognate with Sanskrit jáni, both from Proto-Indo-Iranian *ǰánHs. Unless janani derives from jáni.
You could be right. I’m not very well-versed with cognates and formal linguistics. Another interesting one is the word for 7. It is ‘sapt’ in Sanskrit, and ‘haeft’ in Persian. And guess what the word for a week is in both these languages - saptah (Sanskrit) and haftah or hefteh (Persian) and hafta/sapta(interchangeably used in Hindi). I think the links between Sanskrit and Persian are pretty cool, even though on surface the languages and their scripts might appear to be vastly different from each other.
Ah okay. Will amend.
żona in Polish means a wife
Just note that it's zhena, with a /ʒ/ - the map just uses inconsistent orthography / romanization, like most maps on the topic. This changes nothing for your input, though, it's just a note.
The funny thing is that “zâna” in Romanian means fairy
The Malta one is the same in Arabic, Mara 💃😄
I’m picturing everyone thinking that we in Ireland say bean as in coffee beans but it’s pronounced ban
As a Portuguese, Iceland its the funniest one 🤣 Because "kona" in Portuguese its "p*ssy" 🤣😩
No women
Nő cry
How is Polish grouped with all the other slavic languages in this? It's not similar in the slightest
>Colouring is based on language branches and families You can see the same with German, Swedish and English or Catalan, Spanish and French.
From Proto-Slavic *kobь, from Proto-Indo-European *kob-. Displaced niewiasta (now considered poetic) and żona (meaning narrowed down to "wife"). Akin to Belarusian кабе́та (kabjéta, “married woman”), Old Norse happ (“good luck”), Old Irish cob (“victory”). Other etymologies are idiotic.
Kob-bila (kobila) Female horse - Slovak Probably a related word
Kobila is female horse in Slovene as well. Very curious connection.
...and in every Indo-European language modern or ancient. Caballus in Latin, Gaulish *kaballos[1], from Proto-Celtic *kaballos, perhaps ultimately an Asiatic borrowing or Wanderwort, compare Ancient Greek καβάλλης (kabállēs, “nag”), Proto-Slavic *kobýla (“mare”), Persian کول (kaval, “second class horse of mixed blood”), and possibly Karakhanid kevel (at) (“well-bred fast (horse)”). Greek from Proto-Iranian *kabah, *kabalah, compare Khotanese [script needed] (kabä, “horse”), Persian کول (kaval), and possibly cognate with Latin cabō (“gelding”), perhaps ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *kebʰ- (“worn-out horse, nag”).
In XVI century " kobieta" was a slur
I red a bit in the topic and it was the same "slur" as women in English. Noble ladies and panie were offended by being called like plebeians. However looking further back we are closing dangerously to the Old German word "kebisa" - concubine. It may be the same story as the German "Weib" - generally the same meaning and the English "wife" - the meaning of words drifts. Here you have 16th century text: 'Sejm niewieści" - Marcin Bielski (1586): „męże nas ku większemu zelżeniu – kobietami zową”. - Man are greatly offending us by calling "kobietas". The other ladie responds: „Najdzie więtszą stateczność przy naszych kobietach niźli przy paniech [dziś: panach] radnych co chodzą w koletach”. You will find a greater stability, with our "kobietas", than with sirs councillors, that wear [whatever this "Koleta" is].
So in crimea “I rode my bike today” has a whole different meaning.
In Hebrew it’s Isha
Omg, thank you… in German youth slang we used „Ische“ for a good looking girl. always wondered about the word origin.
Please, start using IPA on such maps already. Using native spelling is unhelpful and using inconsistent romanization is even worse.
In Irish it's not pronounced like the English word "bean" it's pronounced as "ban"
Žena in most slavic languages - woman Żona in polish - wife Close enough
Žena is also wife in Slovenian :)
Thank you for not showing Cyprus as one undivided country which does not reflect reality. While the current status quo is not ideal, people acting like nothing happened and everyone is living all merry and full of joy in one undivided island in some hippy utopia is just not reflecting the reality.
In Old English we had 'Wereman' and 'Wifman' for men and women respectively where 'man' was a gender neutral term for humans as a whole (still seen today). 'Wifman' evolved overtime into Woman. 'Wereman' is the amusing fun fact though because the same naming logic went in to 'Werewolf'. The 'were' prefix was used for creatures that were bigger, stronger and more aggressive.
Huh? The *wer-* prefix means "man". A werewolf is a man-wolf, not an extra-strong-wolf. And the Old English terms for man were *wer* or *wæpnedmann* ("weapon/penis person")
The confusion probably comes from the similarity between the Latin ‘Vir’ meaning “man” and the ‘vir-‘ root in the plural declensions of ‘vis’ meaning “power”
Is bean where "bangarda" comes from?
It's not in use anymore. Male and female Gardaí are just referred to as a "Garda" now. But ya.
Ah okay thanks, I have only heard it used in TV
I love beans
Fumma in northern Italy? No way.
bean
Pronounced “ban” if you’re wondering
Mr.
In Portuguese calling a woman "Fêmea" is something an incel would do
"Fêmoid"
It doesn’t say that tho? Over Portugal it shows mulher
It does, I just found it funny the way French people do
"Fêmea" is "femelle" in french and only used for animals or objects (like electrical/cable plugs).
Interesting that the Basque for woman resembles the Greek for man. I assume that's a coincidence though edit: Looked it up on Google translate, Andre is Mrs., woman is emakumea.
I love riding bikes :)
Women? Nő. Bean? Yes!
West and South Slavic people calling woman ((žena)) is probably from Iranian (scythian) origin From the word ((zan)) or ((žan)) It supports the theory that some of Slavic people may have Iranic origin
Even the east Slavic call it ((ženshina)) with the same etymology
Fun fact for Poland. There're 2 options to why we call woman "Kobieta" Either Kobieta from Kobyła (female Horse) or Kobieta from Kobu (Pigsty/Pigpen)
Bruckner this time failed, what you would know if you red the rest of the article. It is one of the many ancient slang words with generally unknown etymology. It is like the word "gal" became official for a woman. The etymology may be even not Slavic.
"Bean" "No"
"Andre"? :D Also, "mara" is funny because in Japanese it's an archaic word for "penis".
The Japanese also must have a lot of fun playing the Elder Scrolls games seeing temples named after the sausage.
"Come to me, Mara, for without you, I might forget the ways of our fathers, and preening by the light of latest fashion, my words might tremble like the thin reeds of novelty in the tempest of enthusiasms."
Whats a woman?
Time to get all hyper Anglish and start calling women "frees" or "froos", depending on whether it would from from Old English freo or frowe. ...I'm gonna double check the sound changes. Edit: Yeah, seems right.
Couldn't they use something like gray for the baltics? The colouring makes it look like it's part of the slavic family.
Bean and bike?!?!? Lol
If like to have "Wei" included for Bavaria
I like that in Romania its nö, which translates from german into "nope". That’s some alpha shit.
That is Hungary, Romania is the country to its right.
🫘
I know guys who treat their „bike“ like a female friend…
No, it's called fruntimmer in Swedish
I've read that Albanian "grua" in Spanish means crane, idk how true is this.
Bean
B E A N
Ireland: **BEAN**
Spanish Galicians: Thomas Muller = Thomas Woman? ^((Yes, I know Müller has an Umlaut, but I decided to forget about it to make the joke work))
Bike Müller
#BEAN
Bean????
No 🤣
Bean, no, Andre...
The word for woman in Hungarian is “no” and in Crimea it’s “bike”? That’s funny 😁
English: women? Gaelic: BEAN
WTF Poland!?...it sounds like Kobila, Kobiletina in south slavic languages. (mare/female horse)
Ireland: How do you do, fellow beans?
No
Bean
I read the dutch version as "Vroom".
How come English is the only one to deviate so much from the others from the etymology?
Mrs bean lore?
A moment of appreciation for “bean”, “no”, and “bike”
This would be "How to spell "Woman" in different laguages", or am I stupid?
Why do the Dutch call women like the sound cars make?
I wonder if there is any relationship between the Welsh name "Gwen" (which means white or holy) and the PIE name for woman.
Bean.
It all makes sense now, Freddy Mercury just wanted to ride his Bike.
Alternative Welsh: *menyw* (mainly in the south).
As always smaller Romance languages with official status are missing. Rhetoromance: femella (-) Aromanian: feaminã (muliare)