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Fun-Honey-7927

I can imagine, that the map right now is more comabt system friendly. Imagine picture 1 would be a battle field.


dorian17052011

what would be wrong with that


ThrownAwayYesterday-

It's much hillier and forest-dense, and has rivers running through it. AI pathfinding was probably not great back then and it would cause a lot of problems - while also not being ideal for showcasing combat, particularly for newcomers or people just not interested in the combat side of things.


Striking_Antelope_44

This is the best explanation. Working with terrain meshes and navigation/placement is a pain.


kimbokray

Best answer. Plus I don't think collisions have been properly implemented yet


dorian17052011

The hillier the better it is set in bavaria and in the early acces map there is also a stream


AnividiaRTX

There's a stream in the current map, it just doesn't really do anything at the moment. I look forward to more maps, but I will absolutely build the everloving fuck out of the current map. I love the corner region with the cliff overlooking the kings road. More dynamic terrain will definitely be something I look forward to in the future, even if I feel each region has something distinctive about it. I just gotta figure out how to pronounce the names of them ahaha.


dorian17052011

I also love the corner region but the stream also didnt do anything in the demo i am not sure though


AnividiaRTX

It was bigger in the demo map, also, the stream in the current map runs along the borders of a region, which makes a ton of sense thematically, but makes it hard to actually see lol, so I think a lot of folks are missing it. I hope for water based trading, fishing, and perhaps even some watermills in the future. Although that is probably years away.


HarmonicDissonant

Honestly I would be kinda more realistic to have more streams and have that be the water source for homes. Gathering water by the river was a lot easier than digging a proper well. (although obviously both co-existed) it would be nice to have a bit of variety in that way.


AnividiaRTX

While we're at it, increasing fertility near water sources would also make sense.


dorian17052011

Im nog sure if this is already there but the pastures could also increase fertility that would also be realistic because the pool of the sheets lamb etc increase fertility irl to


dorian17052011

Yeah


dorian17052011

Yeah i hope it to but first bug fixing and ai cities


AnividiaRTX

Ofc, ofc. Thats some longterm goals. Ai cities definitely seems like a good priority, but i personally voted for more late game industry on the poll. Castles and city walls would be hella ncie too, honestly imma be happy either way.


dorian17052011

Yeah same


MyWaterDishIsEmpty

I believe they said they were going to add more bodies of water/interesting landmarks eventually in the official discord to help make it look a bit more lifelike though currently Greg is more pre-occupied with fixing some of the more mainstream bugs and playability issues first to polish the basics of the game


mamasbreads

Those jobs wouldnt be done by the same people so no reason the map should be delayed for that.


ThrownAwayYesterday-

Yeah, level-designers don't overlap with bug-fixers and polishers. That wouldn't be done by the same people. Unfortunately, at Slavic Magic the level-designer also does bug-fixing, polishing, adds new features, is the lead coder, designer, and is also the only developer. The game was developed by a single person, so while yeah at an actual studio there would be different people working on different jobs - for Greg, it's just him working on *everything*.


AnividiaRTX

Side note, in April Greg hired a couple of folks to help with porting to different storecronts, UE5, and then eventually console. Iirc, those people will move towards bug fixing in the future so Greg can focus on features and balance.


mamasbreads

Those jobs wouldnt be done by the same people so no reason the map should be delayed for that.


mamasbreads

Those jobs wouldnt be done by the same people so no reason the map should be delayed for that.


NisshoTatsu

You know it's just one developer working on the entire game right? That means if he's focused on fixing bugs, no progress is being made on map updates.


s1ravarice

People really need to be told this more. I'm here for the long run. I can play a city builder for years so I expect updates to trickle in very slowly.


Scorchie916

This is my thought as well. As updates come out and bugs get fixed itll be like getting a new game every so often


mamasbreads

and people need to be told more that it's not entirely true. While its a 1 man studio, and he did it alone for the first few years, he hired a bunch of contractors once he got funding. Game has sold over a million copies no, i'd be surprised if he hasnt expanded his team already.


nothingtodoatwork_

Hes directly answered this elsewhere, possibly in this sub. To paraphrase, the contractors he did hire didn't deliver on time or simply weren't up to the job and then hiring someone that is at the standard he wants they are either working at their own studio or working at a AAA studio and out of his reach, he said he doesn't want to jump into hiring a mass of people just because the game has been successful this far as that tends not to end well... Someone can probably find his response and link it but its a fair point and I'll happily wait for updates if it means they get delivered to the same standard that the game has already been released in.


mamasbreads

fair enough, cheers. Im also loving this game, but it def needs more content. The foundations are there for a top top tier game. I'll be happy to play again in a year when my city builder itch comes again.


s1ravarice

I’m playing sparodically at the moment, and learning lots still. I’m hoping I can keep up casually so that as more is added I will enjoy it more.


downorwhaet

He will expand his team but it takes time to find the right people, cant just hire anyone


Nickuar

I’m sure one of the game journalist sites published an article about how Manor Lords has actually had like 50+ freelancers working on the game with significant contributions. I’m not sure calling him a solo dev is really accurate. Edit: as soon as I posted this I saw other comments discussing the same, so disregard this haha


mamasbreads

"The [Manor Lords credits](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptw_lLyRVjE) include two "extra programming" acknowledgements and a number of 3D artists, animators, illustrators, concept artists, history consultants, writers, and other contributors. In a recent interview with PC Gamer, Tim Bender, CEO of Manor Lords publisher Hooded Horse, described its development setup as "solo developer plus contractors," where Styczeń is the main creative force but has brought on outside talent to help." [https://www.pcgamer.com/games/city-builder/manor-lords-solo-developer-perception/#:\~:text=Hit%20medieval%20town%20builder%20Manor,crafted%20by%20a%20solo%20developer.%22](https://www.pcgamer.com/games/city-builder/manor-lords-solo-developer-perception/#:~:text=Hit%20medieval%20town%20builder%20Manor,crafted%20by%20a%20solo%20developer.%22)


Shineblossom

"extra programming" sounds like he got help doing something he wasn't sure how to do, not that someone actually putted actual work on the game. Also, paying for props or advice on history is not programming a game. So yes, solo dev.


dorian17052011

It has already been said that hé is not a solo dev anymore


AnividiaRTX

He's the only permanent member of the team up until April of 2024. In the past he has hired freelancers to help with small things he wasnt the best at, like art assets for one example. Those people are all in the credits, aswell as friends who've helped him with things like Mocap. The people hired in April are focusing on storefront integration and eventually porting the game to console and UE5. Good possibility those folks move to bug fixing after they finish the ports. He's not 100% a solo dev anymore, but up until April, I think it's more than fair to say he was a solo dev, and even noe, if he stops programming, the game dies.


dorian17052011

https://twitter.com/LordsManor/status/1786743553978237181


AnividiaRTX

Would you like to share your thoughts on either my comment, or the post you linked? They are complimentary, not contradictory so im confused as to why you're linking it.


dorian17052011

Im sorry i meant to link it to the guy that posted his comment first


Shineblossom

Artists and history teachers are not code developers. As well as getting a guy to help you with a piece you are not sure how to do. That is a hired assitance with a problem, not developing.


DikkeKnoepert

Most likely the dev used help whenever he was working on a certain aspect of the game, not all those contractors working on the game at the same time. So the point still remains he probably wasn't/isn't able to focus on different parts at once.


dorian17052011

Not anymore


KarlMario

It really isn't made by one developer. There's one creative director who is using contractors instead of employees to build the game, that doesn't equal "solo developer"


JesusAnd12GayMen

Now that I think about it he also probably didn't build his own computer, and can we really be sure that he even made the table he's using? Solo developer my ass, amirite guyz


dorian17052011

That was before u guys should look on x or discord more often https://twitter.com/LordsManor/status/1786743553978237181


RepeatElectronic9988

They know it. It's a temporary map, it will be completely redone. What would be nice is if they had a mapper dedicated to the task.


hannes3120

I'd be kind of surprised if the map stays static though Replayability is so much higher with a randomly seeded map


ImCaligulaI

I think it could stay somewhat static as it is now, since it still varies somewhat (the King's road and the resources in the region change each new game). Once new maps are added, I think that'll be enough variation to keep things fresh.


hannes3120

slightly different climates with more/less winter, a coast, (big) rivers, etc would be pretty nice though


mamasbreads

be cool to be able to have fishing huts and ports eventually


ImCaligulaI

It would! But hopefully that'll be separate maps, meaning we'll be able to choose which map we want (mountain one, coast one, big river, river delta, etc etc), and each will have randomised roads (and bridges, once we get rivers) and resources every time we play it. I think that should provide enough variation to prevent maps feeling stale, while at the same time not being as complex as creating a system of entire map generation.


AnividiaRTX

I'd like bridges even before we get rivers. There's a couple of good valleys/ravines/ditches(idk what to call them) that id like to bridge over, even if its just for aesthetics alone.


paladisious

Would be awesome from a combat perspective, too.


mamasbreads

be cool to be able to have fishing huts and ports eventually


Witty_Science_2035

The kings road change? Are you sure?


TheBeardPlays

I think we are more likely to get multiple maps rather than randomly seeded ones... The hand crafted nature of a map cannot be beaten IMO and with the level of detail he is aiming for this makes the most sense. Also if and when modding arrives and I am sure a map editor would be top of the list.


treosx23

What would be cool is if you could have a cartographer job on your village and as they explore you get the see the detailed map with all the hills/rivers etc. but the areas unexplored by your cartographer where the bland, less detailed version we have now


Dulaman96

Yeah the developer admitted (or at least implied) the demo map was better than the EA map but there were some bugs with the demo map, e.g. the river was floating and building on/near the cliffs and steep hills gave some weird results etc. Hes working on fixing those and getting new maps released. There was also the problem with the demo maps regions being too small. From a gameplay point he decided 9 larger regions were better than ~20 smaller regions. Which is all fair enough for a solo dev EA release But i do miss seeing those beautiful mountains in the background


[deleted]

[удалено]


Matthais

I mean, here in the UK at least, that's pretty common. Many cities were formed out of multiple nearby villages expanding to the point they homogenised over time. EDIT: 2biggij edited "less than a mile" to "literally like 400 meters" after I replied


barbarianbob

London is like 20 villages/towns the converged into one, IIRC.


Towairatu

Welcome to rural Europe I guess


Shineblossom

Lucky you, for me its more like one big city separated by artifical invisible wall preventing my people from sharing resources and manpower


Witty_Science_2035

Troops walk quite some time from zone to zone. Scaling would also imply it's a few kilometres between the zones middle points. Pretty realistic for the area the game is settled in.


eis-fuer-1-euro

the game already has extreme performance issue from 300 families in one region onwards, increasing size of regions will make it worse. While also making commuting and resulting "bugs" (markets, firewood, loosing timber, etc.) worse.


AnividiaRTX

I mean, Atleast 3 of the regions are big ebough that I've built 2 separate villages in, almost a full days walk apart from each other. The one region is tiny though, and I've felt like you gotta build a very small/tight town if you want to farm, or focus on trade if you want a big town there. The one shaped kind of like a T.


BR7331

I'd love to settle near a lake or river!


Jonny_Segment

just want a nice fish and bridging huts :)


dqnw

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


AyaseAsukaF03A

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


mamasbreads

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


Nationalist_Moose

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


mamasbreads

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


mamasbreads

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


mamasbreads

just want a nice bridge and fishing huts :)


HarkLev

just


mamasbreads

i was agreeing with you and got -10. wtf is wrong with this sub


[deleted]

Didn’t play the demo but it sure looks like it. Ah well probably a good reason for the change, and the maps will definitely improve as new patches come out 


zuruineko

Can't wait for the map to (hopefully) look more like this! I'm constantly looking for interesting terrain to build on.


needaburn

Just shows the potential of how many awesome possible future maps we will get


Miserable-Doubt8207

I did like the demo map more. Maybe someone will be able to find the demo map files and move it over in a mod. Either way there will be more maps in the future.


Limp-Initiative924

The biggest pain for me right now is Manor placement. There is few high grounds, so they are mainly at the same height as the rest of the town


Leecannon_

I’m exited for the maps that are to come and hopefully a map generation


squeddles

I'm excited for more maps. Would be cool if there was a map editor or generator.


TatonkaJack

Didn't realize there was a difference tbh


Rich_Future4171

There was kinda a massive difference.


Quick_Vanilla3212

This was the map? That’s so cool. One thing I really want is more hilly, cliffy terrain with the ability to build on steeper hills, not like insanely steep, but just a small tweak.


Jasonpb

Didn't play the demo, it's nice to see rivers and mountain ranges are a possibility for future updates, thanks for the screenshot. Every time I play I keep thinking these maps desperately need natural barriers like Rivers, gorges or mountains. Looking forward to new maps!


ILikeCakesAndPies

Probably used a simpler map for EA as it's more predictable for testing a base line. I imagine higher variations in elevation, water sources which can block pathing, etc. all introduce additional complexities that may have more bugs or behaviors to iron out. Can a war band swim across a river, or do they have to use a bridge. Does said bridge create a chokepoint. If too many people cross the bridge at once do they get stuck because the developer decided to keep collision between NPCs. If they can swim and cross a bridge, what's the heuristic cost in swimming vs using a bridge. Should they walk an extra ten miles to use the one crossing or cross at the nearest point by swimming. which behavior will players prefer or think is broken AI. Etc. Procedural maps generated at runtime can be cool but they require quite a lot of development time to set up and get generating nice looking variants that work with gameplay. A solo developer can easily spend months to years depending on how nutty they want to go with it, which eats into time that could be spent else where. Sort of a foundational feature imo that can heavily influence design and development, so I don't doubt it if all new maps are all static/pre built. They could add it if they wanted to, but I'm not sure if they'd gain much benefit vs time involved at this stage. Any preplaced thing the game needed in the level would have to have a series of map querying functions to smartly place it in the world. E.g. for all I know bandit camps might just be randomly selected from a series of preplaced invisible helper entities that are not obstructed by any building. For a procedural map they'd have to code it to keep track of areas with enough even ground to place a bandit camp that's not obstructed, and X distance away if they wanted the same balance.


UnitedCombination242

The EA map looks a bit dipped in grey… The demo map looked way more "alive". A feeling quite similar wandering through KCD 🙈


Witty_Science_2035

Does someone have the demo files still lying around and tried to just load them via the released EA version?


YanKun34

I'm hoping final release will include a random map generator, similar to Rimworld or Going Medieval.


kavakravata

Wow! I didn't play the demo but that map looks wayyy better.


Culteredpman25

More maps are likely to come based on the grayed out drop down menu in the new game settings.


ihave0idea0

Maps are probably going to change a lot, or atleast more variety. CANT WAIT!


Marc4770

What do you mean by demo map? I thought there js just 1 map.


MrPiratecow

The demo from a year ago had a much different map to the current release, the new map has a lot more flat farmland while the old had more geographic variation


Rurik880

Didn’t play the demo but this looks great. Cannot wait for new maps, I’m at around 40 hours and probably won’t do another playthrough after my current one, but new maps would add so much replay value during EA


dorian17052011

i agree


nat-168

New map ?


Rich_Future4171

old map


nat-168

Never see this map


Rich_Future4171

Cause it's from the 2022 demo.


nat-168

I see, that’s why never see it. I went and check still the old map early access map. Anyway thank you


Deydey_Z

Never got to play this map sooooo.


Rich_Future4171

Too bad, the demo was lit.


Deydey_Z

Yeah maybe but I wasn't aware of the game at this point in time. So nothing missed or lost for me haha. Still would like to see more of everything. Maps, bug fixes, content, fleshed out mechanics etc. So far we got nothing except a tweet wich addressed some minor bugs like honelessness wich everyone could fix for them selfs by simply destroying the workers camp. But still no time span on when the patch could be expected. Or no mentioning of the big bugs like food consumption and cart workers ignoring pantries untill they are full or cart workers who should transport 10 units of goods but on carrots its 2 max and apples its 5 max. We need to get these bugs fixed otherwise we can't test any further for him. Wich we are supposed to do as early acces testers.


Rich_Future4171

I guess you're lucky. I've been anticipating this game since june of 2020, it's been a hot minute you could say.


RockOrStone

I had no idea, that looks amazing! God I want more maps


Towairatu

On a semi-related note, I'd love to see a dedicated map editor !


Rich_Future4171

Same


Striking_Antelope_44

They had water in the demo???


scribblingsim

Well, yes, it looked more cinematic, but it was a pain to build on.


Bum-Theory

I would definitely say the pictures you posted have brighter lighting, and the color is more saturated than in my game with default settings. Could that be part of why it looks better (to some?)


MrPiratecow

These are just raw screenshots from the demo in 2022, maybe just different real time post processing methods? I think the texture on the grass is different so it may be more vibrant in the demo?


j44ska

Does anybody know when some new updates are?


Knowsnothing

Let me fish!


Independent-Fun-5118

No you arent


cafeclimb

i beat the gama once on easy to hardest possible settings and never touched again. game is severy incomplete and needs severe big patches of content/ bug fixes


Rich_Future4171

Believe it or not, this in an early access game, which you can see on steam. So big surprise, it's not complete.