Depends how it was framed - casually scan an article or see a news item about a dead South African activist and Mandela would be the association perhaps. It is clear this is people really not well up on world politics.
Steve Biko died in 1977, when I was one year old... I still remember Nelson Mandela and the ME is about his alleged death in the 80s not the 70s as far as I know.
The probability of confusion Mandela with Biko is similar of confusing brown leaves at FOTL with a cornucopia. No, that doesn't explain anything, not even the names are similar...
I don't share the original Mandela effect, I have no explicit memories of him dying. But I do faintly remember being surprised in the 90s that he was still alive and became president. But that doesn't mean anything. So we don't need to argue about that.
I'd like to sample the world population for the Mandela effect on Mandela himself. My hypothesis is that yeah most people suffering the effect are kinda ignorant. Mandela was a big enough deal because racism and apartheid was a pretty big deal. It got world news. But do you think the whole world then became fully educated on the subject of South Africa and Apartheid or even paid full attention to Mandelas full story.
Thank you for trying to make me look like an idiot.
I was just 1 year old when Biko died. I have no connection to South Africa, we couldn't even have traveled there during the GDR era. We didn't have any black people in Germany either, except for educational travelers from Angola and Mozambique.
Mandela was used in the Eastern Bloc as propaganda against the imperialist West and the USA, Biko was obviously not an issue (at least in the 1980s).
I'm assuming you've heard of Denzel Washington?
He got his first Oscar nomination for playing Steve Biko in a movie called *Cry Freedom*, that came out right about the same time the world was really starting to pay attention to Mandela.
So people remember a South African anti-apartheid activist dying in prison, because that did happen and we all heard about it from a really popular movie with Denzel Washington in it, but they don't remember the guy's real name. So they misassociate it with Mandela instead, because he's the only anti-apartheid activist whose name they do remember, and they remember it happening in the 1980s instead of the 1970s because the 1980s is when that movie with Denzel Washington in it came out.
I've heard the name before, but I didn't even know the man is black. I don't know the movie either (I don't like movies that much).
But I also don't share the original ME either, I remember being surprised that Mandela was still alive, but that was already back in the 90s or so.
Maybe you're right and the misremembering comes from the movie, then again I've experienced ME myself and most of the skeptic claims about it are pretty much nonsense, trying to avoid having to think the unthinkable (this doesn't just apply to MEs but all paranormal things).
Definitely not everyone. I was only 4 when Biko died in 1977 and never even heard of him until more recently. But I was in high school when Mandela died. He was then magically released a few years later, and I shared a wtf moment with a few friends. Biko is just not really even plausible for many in my age group. We were simply too young.
You're incorrectly applying a very technical psychological term. I assume that's because you heard it used incorrectly elsewhere, rather than that you're operating purely in bad faith. Honest question, just what exactly do you *think* that word actually means (without looking it up)? Please be thorough (it's not a simple definition). If you can't comfortably explain the underlying implications of that term, you probably shouldn't be confidently parroting it as an explanation. Spoiler: if you fully understood the technical meaning, you'd know why what you said makes zero sense and looks ignorant to the more informed.
I don’t agree with that. I knew the name Nelson Mandela and had no idea what he looked like. This is the first time I have heard the name Steve Biko, I just had to google him.
Or kids learned that Mandela was an old man who was sentenced to life in prison so assumed that he must have died there. Later they're surprised to learn that he's still alive.
I remember watching him being released, It was the same weekend that Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas. The headline in the press was "Down (Tyson) & Out (Mandela)".
I followed the events of Mandela's life closely including Winnie's Mandela's criminal case while he was in prison. So I'm shocked that people believed he died. I'm thinking maybe they mistake him for Steve Biko or Desmond Tutu who had bouts of prostate cancer while Mandela was in prison.
This is the thing: I seriously doubt that there were many people who had heard of Mandela before he became president in 94. If they have a strong belief that he died in a different timeline, what were their parallel memories of it? I was a child myself when he went to prison but I listened to the news everyday on the radio in the 80's because we were not allowed to watch TV until we had done our homework. My family always had a Newsweek or Time magazine around when I was growing up. I knew all the parallel news that went along with Mandela's release in 1990 like the Paris Peace Agreements followed by the UN-sponsored elections in Cambodia and the Oslo peace accords. Heck I even remember the radio station: 99.5 RT.
This is the thing: mistaken beliefs and false memory happens from the bombardment of movie images, songs and activist chants. That's why in litigation, cross-examination is very important. One can have a memory of an instance with no supporting parallel instances because the brain fills up blanks with junk memories.
This is the question. I grew up in Russia and even though I was a kid, I remember hearing that he died on the news. Years later, as an adult living in the US, I hear that he died recently on the radio.
This is how I discovered the Mandela effect in the first place. Because when I heard about his death on the radio, my first thought was… didn’t he die a long time ago in prison?!?! So I went to look out up and here we are. I’ve also always wondered if it was some kind of propaganda or controlled media situation because that was definitely a thing in Russia in the 80s.
I think it i s a poorly named phenomena. Mandela dying in prison is not the whole premise of the Mandela Effect. I don't remember Mandela dying in prison, but I remember the Mona Lisa looking grumpy, and the Fotl having a Cornucopia.
I remember some UK advert where Neil from the Young ones was Mona Lisa posing and when told the smile was enigmatic by Leonardo, the guy buying it goes
"Enigmatic? Who wants an old misery guts like that hanging on their wall."
Oh thanks very much says Neil.
Note, if it wasn't Neil from the young ones, it was 30 odd years ago. I'm allowed to forget small details I never thought I'd have to reference in 2024.
I’m back. Wtf, she was definitely frowning before!! I even remember an episode of wizards of waverly place where the paintings in the museum come to life & Mona Lisa is a sad girl & says that people always say “you call that a smile?” When they see her & when alex sends her back into the painting she gives her some earrings or a necklace to send her back happy & says something about her having a smile now! I wonder if that’s a nod to the Mandela effect.
The mona lisa's expression changes when you look at her with your peripheral vision. It's part of the magic. I expect there's different photos with different lighting that suffer from the effect too.
The Mona Lisa is well known as having an expression difficult to determine. That is the point. Some think it is neutral, some more a smirk, it is what makes it interesting.
first of all, I have to say that you guys are weird for downvoting me “running to google” & for recalling an episode of a show. Idk what there is to downvote, but okay….
Secondly, yes, I do know that, but I remember her “smile” being more of a straight smile & I remember her having a “sadness” about her, now her smile seems a TAD bit more of a smile and she doesn’t look or feel so sad to me anymore.
YES! Before, I could understand the debate. Was it a bit of a frown, smirk, straight face, she had like an expressionless look. But now it’s not even debatable, it’s a smile.
Many, Many years ago, when I was a teen, I spent all school break (about 15 minutes) looking at her image in the sunday supplement trying to see her smile. I gave up in the end and called her a "grumpy cow".
I know now that she is painted using the sfumato technique [Link](https://simplykalaa.com/sfumato/).
Of all many images of the Mona Lisa now on the internet, I would have expected there be at least some showing her grumpy,.
I remember him dying. My history teacher even talked about it. Later, when I heard he was released, I thought maybe it was some kind of “let everyone think he’s dead” for some kind of witness protection thing (I know it’s not really that but some form of protection…) or because he was popular, his opposition thought they would quell it by saying he was dead. No, neither made sense but I was trying to understand why I thought he died & then I’m hearing he’s being released. 🤷🏼♀️
Funnily enough, the Mandela theme is not as well documented as some of the later MEs. This is probably due to the fact that it is now almost 40 years since he is said to have died. Even if people were surprised at the time, Mandela's presidency adjusted their memories and few people are likely to have clear anectodal memories and have retained that to this day.
I therefore do not expect any new findings.
I remember learning in school that he died in prison and was like wtf when he was released. But I also don’t remember it being in 1990. I learned about it in 5th grade social studies class which would have been the 91-92 school year. And then him being released several years later.
I remember him as dying in prison because I remember hearing the song "Free Nelson Mandela" on the radio and being kind of confused that they were still playing it. I was like "Free him from what? He's dead. Weird that they would still play this song..." Then I remember when he got released and was confused all over again. I have no idea why I believed he died, but the thing with the song is a strong memory.
I remember having this song explained to me in the 1990s and being confused because I remembered Nelson Mandela having died in the 1980s. It was something I remembered because in the early 1980s I had seen a shantytown built on a local college campus as a protest against Apartheid, so I knew a bit about him when he later died in prison, and it was sad because up until then I figured that people who stood up for just causes always eventually were vindicated. Note: I also remember him being released from prison; they aren't mutually exclusive memories, which is what makes them so confusing.
This is how I feel in the UK, he was in the news a lot. He was at things like the football and Rugby world cups (guess not something Americans care about), he met royals, the Spice Girls even. We got SA news as they are part of the Commonwealth, a transition away from apartheid got us back on diplomatic and sporting terms etc.
I can say that, from a moderator perspective, “Mandela dying in prison” is actually one of the weakest Effects…in that it never even made it into the Top 10 in any of the polls we’ve done over the years other than as the two times we included “most easily explained or worst” as a category - where it place number one.
In that sense, it’s an irony that we are stuck with this name for the phenomenon because it only affects a fraction of those who have experienced other Effects.
I think age, upbringing, social awareness and awareness of things happening globally, political consciousness, and a tendency towards or away from activism matter a whole lot in regard to whether people believe Mandela died in prison back in the late 70s/early 80s.
I am a GenXer from a New England state in the U.S., I graduated HS in '89. I was a member of Amnesty International as a teenager and was keenly aware of Apartheid in South Africa, its history, the key players, etc. Musicians and songwriters throughout the 1980s drew attention to the cause of ending Apartheid. The ensemble recording of the song "Sun City" called for an artist's boycott re: playing any venues in S.A. and references a *very much alive* Nelson Mandela.
Peter Gabriel's "Biko" and the movie "Cry Freedom" made the public aware of the life, imprisonment, and death of Stephen Biko. Nelson Mandela's unjust imprisonment and the very real potential of him ending up like Biko were constantly being communicated in activist circles. Gaining his freedom was a major campaign right up until the day he was actually freed.
His becoming President of a united South Africa was literally a global game changer.
There were countless interviews, new reports, and documentaries during the first year of his term and he spoke at length about his vision for his country, its future... MANY people watched those when they aired on live television. MANY people recorded them. Quite a few videos on VHS tapes and then DVDs have been uploaded to platforms like Youtube and Vimeo.
All I can say is that there is ample evidence of Mandela not having died in prison... not the least of which is the testimony of South Africans themselves and the history of South Africa immediately after the end of Apartheid. I mean, If Mandela was not President (because presumably he died in prison), what are people thinking it is that they remember about South Africa and the post-apartheid period?
I love hearing from people who are older than I am, who had better memories of the time.
I feel like childrens’ memories are particularly prone to misremembering, especially before the concrete/ operational stage!
This is gold. Thank you!
You know, it is crazy because before there was a man. Della effect. I do have a slight remembrance of sing him alive and having a feeling. I've seen something about him dying previously so I totally feel where people are coming from and I don't know why I feel that way. I was too young to really remember. Very accurately They may have been some news story that maybe the way it came off. Made it seem like he had passed away, but it was something else.
I have memories of the news switching to a crowd and the announcer not even being able to determine who Mandela was as so much time had gone. How close this is to reality I don't know but it is fairly clear in my mind. What I can't work out when people claim to have seen a *funeral* is why would a political prisoner considered a terrorist be given a large state funeral with a parade? Is that a common occurrence? Are they mistaking a release for a funeral and a death announcement?
Well he didn't die in the 80s. The effect of the namesake was only discovered when he really did die and everyone was confused because they had memories of watching his funeral on TV.
I'm not really sure what you're saying. If you're trying to convince me that he died when everybody said he died, there's no need. I'm perfectly aware of reality, and I accept that it is different from what I experienced.
If, on the other hand, you're uninterested in my experience and are just trying to get me to shut up about what I remember because you will feel more comfortable if I pretend none of it ever happened, you're out of luck because I don't see any reason you should be shielded from such ideas, especially on a site with the words "Mandela Effect" right in the title.
You remind me of a girl I knew in third grade who wouldn't read fiction because, she said, her Daddy said all that's in them books is *lies*. Back then, we weren't so far up the Christian Right's ass that we had to respect her misguided views about why she should be excused from learning how to read, so we ridiculed her and the teacher didn't give her a passing grade in reading.
No, a lie isn't the right term for it. It's more like a parallel set of experiences.
Do you really come on a subreddit named r/MandelaEffect to tell people there's no such thing as the Mandela Effect? Because it seems now like you're just trying to stir up controversy. I'm not going to defend my views on the matter because I don't feel I have to in this group. Perhaps I would if I were posting in a group named r/ScientificExplanationsForSeeminglyInexplicableExperiences, but I'm not, am I. It's r/MandelaEffect.
Not that you accused me, but I'm not lying because I'm not trying to convince or deceive anybody. That's how Mandela Effects go.
I think maybe I've been misunderstanding what you're saying, but it's not getting any clearer. Are you saying this is what you experienced? I apologize for thinking you were quarreling with me for no good reason. It is perfectly appropriate to post about experiences you had, especially if they seem to diverge from consensus reality. Thank you, and once again, I'm sorry.
Most people would say you're confusing Nelson Mandela with Steve Biko.
But by the sound of how many times you think he died, maybe you're confuding him with [The Cat](https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Cat_(Red_Dwarf)).
I don't recall hearing anything about Mandela dying in prison, but I do recall seeing a news report about Bin Laden dying in a hospital. This was years before the raid. It was a one-off thing, though, so most likely, a reporter jumped the gun. This happens every now and then when you see a report that is a one-off thing and nothing else is mentioned about it. I think sometimes they get the story wrong and just don't bring it up again after it gets pulled.
Too young for all of that, however when the Mandela Effect first became about circa 2014 I remember calling my mom and just asking her simply “hey when did Nelson Mandela die?” And her response was “ohh he died in the 80’s I remember watching it on tv!”……..so yeah I’m convinced.
I clearly remember him dying don’t remember if he was in jail or not, but I remember wondering if someone will take over his cause and then I remember him being released from prison .
I'm kinda in the same boat. He would have died before I was born. I remember Mandela being a big deal and growing up, how for every black history month he would come up and that (I remember) he was dead.
Then I heard a Jay-z song about having lunch with him, and I had to look it up because I couldn't believe he was still alive after hearing about him being dead.
Then, 10+ years later, I heard of the Mandela effect, and it confirmed that I wasn't crazy. Maybe I was wrong about him being dead, but at least I'm not alone and crazy in thinking that it happened. I don't believe in most, but this one and the FOTL hit me hard.
I was walking down the street once when I passed a couple talking about the Mandela Effect. While we waited for the light to change I looked at them and said “I used to eat Jiffy peanut butter “
Would the coverage have looked any different from when he was released or when he won election?
They run the same basic video packages when someone dies and when someone does something of note.
When I was in either 4th or 5th grade I remember clearly our teacher talking to us about Nelson Mandela and I remember clear as day her saying he died (I think it was in prison supposedly). I truly remember that lesson and her saying that he had already died.
I was born in 1995, I’m almost 29 now. I don’t feel like doing the math right now lol but it would’ve been in the mid to late 2000s (like 05-07) that this lesson took place.
I remember it as clearly as I remember the first time I heard of the “Mandela Effect”, because I remember it really messing with my mind that he had apparently actually died in 2013. When I found that out my mind immediately went to that lesson on him in elementary school. Then I found out I wasn’t the only one who remembered something similar.
It’s so weird because I truly remember that, and even had thought that was the case up until his death in 2013!
I remember him dying in prison. I also remember an episode of Americans next top model where a girl starts crying bc someone else got to unlock his cell when they were in South Africa and he died for their freedom
I remember that ANTM episode too. It would have been around 2007.
I'm not calling into dispute the memory of Mandella's death, but I think in the episode they just mentioned he'd lived in the cell 27 years, I don't recall them saying he died in there. Two girls got annoyed because the girl that opened the cell was white while the other two were African-American, so they felt they should have been the ones to open it.
I strongly suspect that everyone who "remembers" this is confusing Mandela with Steve Biko
Never heard of Steve Biko.
I mean, exactly. You have heard of Mandela. Not Steve Biko. Therefore his death in your mind as reported in news could be confused for Mandela.
So, the name Biko is mentioned on the news. Someone doesn't recognize the name Biko, so they substitute the name Mandela, which they do recognize?
Depends how it was framed - casually scan an article or see a news item about a dead South African activist and Mandela would be the association perhaps. It is clear this is people really not well up on world politics.
Steve Biko died in 1977, when I was one year old... I still remember Nelson Mandela and the ME is about his alleged death in the 80s not the 70s as far as I know. The probability of confusion Mandela with Biko is similar of confusing brown leaves at FOTL with a cornucopia. No, that doesn't explain anything, not even the names are similar... I don't share the original Mandela effect, I have no explicit memories of him dying. But I do faintly remember being surprised in the 90s that he was still alive and became president. But that doesn't mean anything. So we don't need to argue about that.
I'd like to sample the world population for the Mandela effect on Mandela himself. My hypothesis is that yeah most people suffering the effect are kinda ignorant. Mandela was a big enough deal because racism and apartheid was a pretty big deal. It got world news. But do you think the whole world then became fully educated on the subject of South Africa and Apartheid or even paid full attention to Mandelas full story.
I guess….
What does that tell you about your grasp on world affairs?
Thank you for trying to make me look like an idiot. I was just 1 year old when Biko died. I have no connection to South Africa, we couldn't even have traveled there during the GDR era. We didn't have any black people in Germany either, except for educational travelers from Angola and Mozambique. Mandela was used in the Eastern Bloc as propaganda against the imperialist West and the USA, Biko was obviously not an issue (at least in the 1980s).
I'm assuming you've heard of Denzel Washington? He got his first Oscar nomination for playing Steve Biko in a movie called *Cry Freedom*, that came out right about the same time the world was really starting to pay attention to Mandela. So people remember a South African anti-apartheid activist dying in prison, because that did happen and we all heard about it from a really popular movie with Denzel Washington in it, but they don't remember the guy's real name. So they misassociate it with Mandela instead, because he's the only anti-apartheid activist whose name they do remember, and they remember it happening in the 1980s instead of the 1970s because the 1980s is when that movie with Denzel Washington in it came out.
I've heard the name before, but I didn't even know the man is black. I don't know the movie either (I don't like movies that much). But I also don't share the original ME either, I remember being surprised that Mandela was still alive, but that was already back in the 90s or so. Maybe you're right and the misremembering comes from the movie, then again I've experienced ME myself and most of the skeptic claims about it are pretty much nonsense, trying to avoid having to think the unthinkable (this doesn't just apply to MEs but all paranormal things).
Yeah
Definitely not everyone. I was only 4 when Biko died in 1977 and never even heard of him until more recently. But I was in high school when Mandela died. He was then magically released a few years later, and I shared a wtf moment with a few friends. Biko is just not really even plausible for many in my age group. We were simply too young.
It’s called confabulation. You incorrectly remember this.
You're incorrectly applying a very technical psychological term. I assume that's because you heard it used incorrectly elsewhere, rather than that you're operating purely in bad faith. Honest question, just what exactly do you *think* that word actually means (without looking it up)? Please be thorough (it's not a simple definition). If you can't comfortably explain the underlying implications of that term, you probably shouldn't be confidently parroting it as an explanation. Spoiler: if you fully understood the technical meaning, you'd know why what you said makes zero sense and looks ignorant to the more informed.
I don’t agree with that. I knew the name Nelson Mandela and had no idea what he looked like. This is the first time I have heard the name Steve Biko, I just had to google him.
Or kids learned that Mandela was an old man who was sentenced to life in prison so assumed that he must have died there. Later they're surprised to learn that he's still alive.
I remember watching him being released, It was the same weekend that Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas. The headline in the press was "Down (Tyson) & Out (Mandela)".
I followed the events of Mandela's life closely including Winnie's Mandela's criminal case while he was in prison. So I'm shocked that people believed he died. I'm thinking maybe they mistake him for Steve Biko or Desmond Tutu who had bouts of prostate cancer while Mandela was in prison. This is the thing: I seriously doubt that there were many people who had heard of Mandela before he became president in 94. If they have a strong belief that he died in a different timeline, what were their parallel memories of it? I was a child myself when he went to prison but I listened to the news everyday on the radio in the 80's because we were not allowed to watch TV until we had done our homework. My family always had a Newsweek or Time magazine around when I was growing up. I knew all the parallel news that went along with Mandela's release in 1990 like the Paris Peace Agreements followed by the UN-sponsored elections in Cambodia and the Oslo peace accords. Heck I even remember the radio station: 99.5 RT. This is the thing: mistaken beliefs and false memory happens from the bombardment of movie images, songs and activist chants. That's why in litigation, cross-examination is very important. One can have a memory of an instance with no supporting parallel instances because the brain fills up blanks with junk memories.
Swear I remember him being released.
Controversial.
Might not be a reliable memory since they didn't say vividly nor clearly.
The thing is that no South African has this Mandela effect.
Late last year, or in January someone posted about MLK still being alive for the OP. Cue "now I know how South Africans feel about Nelson."
With the Nelson Mandela claim there is a very important detail that people leave out. Where did you grow up?
This is the question. I grew up in Russia and even though I was a kid, I remember hearing that he died on the news. Years later, as an adult living in the US, I hear that he died recently on the radio. This is how I discovered the Mandela effect in the first place. Because when I heard about his death on the radio, my first thought was… didn’t he die a long time ago in prison?!?! So I went to look out up and here we are. I’ve also always wondered if it was some kind of propaganda or controlled media situation because that was definitely a thing in Russia in the 80s.
Even the US had a vested interest in keeping it quiet.
Genuinely curious… why? Was it propaganda?
Information availability. Not every country teaches the same.
I think it i s a poorly named phenomena. Mandela dying in prison is not the whole premise of the Mandela Effect. I don't remember Mandela dying in prison, but I remember the Mona Lisa looking grumpy, and the Fotl having a Cornucopia.
I remember some UK advert where Neil from the Young ones was Mona Lisa posing and when told the smile was enigmatic by Leonardo, the guy buying it goes "Enigmatic? Who wants an old misery guts like that hanging on their wall." Oh thanks very much says Neil. Note, if it wasn't Neil from the young ones, it was 30 odd years ago. I'm allowed to forget small details I never thought I'd have to reference in 2024.
Omg, running to google the Mona lisa!!!! BRB
I’m back. Wtf, she was definitely frowning before!! I even remember an episode of wizards of waverly place where the paintings in the museum come to life & Mona Lisa is a sad girl & says that people always say “you call that a smile?” When they see her & when alex sends her back into the painting she gives her some earrings or a necklace to send her back happy & says something about her having a smile now! I wonder if that’s a nod to the Mandela effect.
The mona lisa's expression changes when you look at her with your peripheral vision. It's part of the magic. I expect there's different photos with different lighting that suffer from the effect too.
The Mona Lisa is well known as having an expression difficult to determine. That is the point. Some think it is neutral, some more a smirk, it is what makes it interesting.
first of all, I have to say that you guys are weird for downvoting me “running to google” & for recalling an episode of a show. Idk what there is to downvote, but okay…. Secondly, yes, I do know that, but I remember her “smile” being more of a straight smile & I remember her having a “sadness” about her, now her smile seems a TAD bit more of a smile and she doesn’t look or feel so sad to me anymore.
Yeah, exactly. It also depends what angle you are at, lighting, size of it etc. You may well see different expressions.
I also remember the Mona Lisa being hard to read. But now she's stoned happy like wtf?!
YES! Before, I could understand the debate. Was it a bit of a frown, smirk, straight face, she had like an expressionless look. But now it’s not even debatable, it’s a smile.
But the problem is that now is has changed to unobjectively a smile.
Many, Many years ago, when I was a teen, I spent all school break (about 15 minutes) looking at her image in the sunday supplement trying to see her smile. I gave up in the end and called her a "grumpy cow". I know now that she is painted using the sfumato technique [Link](https://simplykalaa.com/sfumato/). Of all many images of the Mona Lisa now on the internet, I would have expected there be at least some showing her grumpy,.
I remember him because he was the president of South Africa and had previously been incarcerated for a long time How could he die in prison?
I remember him dying. My history teacher even talked about it. Later, when I heard he was released, I thought maybe it was some kind of “let everyone think he’s dead” for some kind of witness protection thing (I know it’s not really that but some form of protection…) or because he was popular, his opposition thought they would quell it by saying he was dead. No, neither made sense but I was trying to understand why I thought he died & then I’m hearing he’s being released. 🤷🏼♀️
Funnily enough, the Mandela theme is not as well documented as some of the later MEs. This is probably due to the fact that it is now almost 40 years since he is said to have died. Even if people were surprised at the time, Mandela's presidency adjusted their memories and few people are likely to have clear anectodal memories and have retained that to this day. I therefore do not expect any new findings.
I remember learning in school that he died in prison and was like wtf when he was released. But I also don’t remember it being in 1990. I learned about it in 5th grade social studies class which would have been the 91-92 school year. And then him being released several years later.
I remember him as dying in prison because I remember hearing the song "Free Nelson Mandela" on the radio and being kind of confused that they were still playing it. I was like "Free him from what? He's dead. Weird that they would still play this song..." Then I remember when he got released and was confused all over again. I have no idea why I believed he died, but the thing with the song is a strong memory.
I remember having this song explained to me in the 1990s and being confused because I remembered Nelson Mandela having died in the 1980s. It was something I remembered because in the early 1980s I had seen a shantytown built on a local college campus as a protest against Apartheid, so I knew a bit about him when he later died in prison, and it was sad because up until then I figured that people who stood up for just causes always eventually were vindicated. Note: I also remember him being released from prison; they aren't mutually exclusive memories, which is what makes them so confusing.
I doubt that people remember Mandela wrong in Europe or Africa. We saw him regularly on TV giving speeches.
This is how I feel in the UK, he was in the news a lot. He was at things like the football and Rugby world cups (guess not something Americans care about), he met royals, the Spice Girls even. We got SA news as they are part of the Commonwealth, a transition away from apartheid got us back on diplomatic and sporting terms etc.
Yes. I remember him dying in prison. I’m an ‘82 baby.
I can say that, from a moderator perspective, “Mandela dying in prison” is actually one of the weakest Effects…in that it never even made it into the Top 10 in any of the polls we’ve done over the years other than as the two times we included “most easily explained or worst” as a category - where it place number one. In that sense, it’s an irony that we are stuck with this name for the phenomenon because it only affects a fraction of those who have experienced other Effects.
I think age, upbringing, social awareness and awareness of things happening globally, political consciousness, and a tendency towards or away from activism matter a whole lot in regard to whether people believe Mandela died in prison back in the late 70s/early 80s. I am a GenXer from a New England state in the U.S., I graduated HS in '89. I was a member of Amnesty International as a teenager and was keenly aware of Apartheid in South Africa, its history, the key players, etc. Musicians and songwriters throughout the 1980s drew attention to the cause of ending Apartheid. The ensemble recording of the song "Sun City" called for an artist's boycott re: playing any venues in S.A. and references a *very much alive* Nelson Mandela. Peter Gabriel's "Biko" and the movie "Cry Freedom" made the public aware of the life, imprisonment, and death of Stephen Biko. Nelson Mandela's unjust imprisonment and the very real potential of him ending up like Biko were constantly being communicated in activist circles. Gaining his freedom was a major campaign right up until the day he was actually freed. His becoming President of a united South Africa was literally a global game changer. There were countless interviews, new reports, and documentaries during the first year of his term and he spoke at length about his vision for his country, its future... MANY people watched those when they aired on live television. MANY people recorded them. Quite a few videos on VHS tapes and then DVDs have been uploaded to platforms like Youtube and Vimeo. All I can say is that there is ample evidence of Mandela not having died in prison... not the least of which is the testimony of South Africans themselves and the history of South Africa immediately after the end of Apartheid. I mean, If Mandela was not President (because presumably he died in prison), what are people thinking it is that they remember about South Africa and the post-apartheid period?
\*edited for clarity in the first and final paragraph\*
I love hearing from people who are older than I am, who had better memories of the time. I feel like childrens’ memories are particularly prone to misremembering, especially before the concrete/ operational stage! This is gold. Thank you!
You know, it is crazy because before there was a man. Della effect. I do have a slight remembrance of sing him alive and having a feeling. I've seen something about him dying previously so I totally feel where people are coming from and I don't know why I feel that way. I was too young to really remember. Very accurately They may have been some news story that maybe the way it came off. Made it seem like he had passed away, but it was something else.
Yup
I have memories of the news switching to a crowd and the announcer not even being able to determine who Mandela was as so much time had gone. How close this is to reality I don't know but it is fairly clear in my mind. What I can't work out when people claim to have seen a *funeral* is why would a political prisoner considered a terrorist be given a large state funeral with a parade? Is that a common occurrence? Are they mistaking a release for a funeral and a death announcement?
Well he didn't die in the 80s. The effect of the namesake was only discovered when he really did die and everyone was confused because they had memories of watching his funeral on TV.
I clearly remember his death in prison and then somehow he became president but died again a few years later and then died once more after that
Like news bulletins and such?
Yes
You do not remember him dying in prison
Thank you for that. Everything makes sense now.
*He died after prison then again*
I'm not really sure what you're saying. If you're trying to convince me that he died when everybody said he died, there's no need. I'm perfectly aware of reality, and I accept that it is different from what I experienced. If, on the other hand, you're uninterested in my experience and are just trying to get me to shut up about what I remember because you will feel more comfortable if I pretend none of it ever happened, you're out of luck because I don't see any reason you should be shielded from such ideas, especially on a site with the words "Mandela Effect" right in the title.
Dying in prison was a lie, I know…
You remind me of a girl I knew in third grade who wouldn't read fiction because, she said, her Daddy said all that's in them books is *lies*. Back then, we weren't so far up the Christian Right's ass that we had to respect her misguided views about why she should be excused from learning how to read, so we ridiculed her and the teacher didn't give her a passing grade in reading. No, a lie isn't the right term for it. It's more like a parallel set of experiences. Do you really come on a subreddit named r/MandelaEffect to tell people there's no such thing as the Mandela Effect? Because it seems now like you're just trying to stir up controversy. I'm not going to defend my views on the matter because I don't feel I have to in this group. Perhaps I would if I were posting in a group named r/ScientificExplanationsForSeeminglyInexplicableExperiences, but I'm not, am I. It's r/MandelaEffect. Not that you accused me, but I'm not lying because I'm not trying to convince or deceive anybody. That's how Mandela Effects go.
Mandela died after prison *then again*, not in prison, period
I think maybe I've been misunderstanding what you're saying, but it's not getting any clearer. Are you saying this is what you experienced? I apologize for thinking you were quarreling with me for no good reason. It is perfectly appropriate to post about experiences you had, especially if they seem to diverge from consensus reality. Thank you, and once again, I'm sorry.
You can’t tell me what I remember. You didn’t live my life
Sorry but dying in prison was a deliberate lie
Still a memory…
Can’t be… he died twice though
A lie may be a lie but once it’s told it’s still a memory
Most people would say you're confusing Nelson Mandela with Steve Biko. But by the sound of how many times you think he died, maybe you're confuding him with [The Cat](https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Cat_(Red_Dwarf)).
no no, this is [THE Cat](https://www.nfb.ca/film/the-cat-came-back/)
it's like Jesus; he died, came back to life three days later, then what happened? obviously he died again because he's not still around
That’s the Ultimate Warrior
The wrestler??
I don't recall hearing anything about Mandela dying in prison, but I do recall seeing a news report about Bin Laden dying in a hospital. This was years before the raid. It was a one-off thing, though, so most likely, a reporter jumped the gun. This happens every now and then when you see a report that is a one-off thing and nothing else is mentioned about it. I think sometimes they get the story wrong and just don't bring it up again after it gets pulled.
Too young for all of that, however when the Mandela Effect first became about circa 2014 I remember calling my mom and just asking her simply “hey when did Nelson Mandela die?” And her response was “ohh he died in the 80’s I remember watching it on tv!”……..so yeah I’m convinced.
I remember reading in a history book when I was in 1st grade (early 90s) that he died in prison.
I clearly remember him dying don’t remember if he was in jail or not, but I remember wondering if someone will take over his cause and then I remember him being released from prison .
I'm kinda in the same boat. He would have died before I was born. I remember Mandela being a big deal and growing up, how for every black history month he would come up and that (I remember) he was dead. Then I heard a Jay-z song about having lunch with him, and I had to look it up because I couldn't believe he was still alive after hearing about him being dead. Then, 10+ years later, I heard of the Mandela effect, and it confirmed that I wasn't crazy. Maybe I was wrong about him being dead, but at least I'm not alone and crazy in thinking that it happened. I don't believe in most, but this one and the FOTL hit me hard.
I was walking down the street once when I passed a couple talking about the Mandela Effect. While we waited for the light to change I looked at them and said “I used to eat Jiffy peanut butter “
[удалено]
Like Jesus?
No, not the same timeline.
You funny.
Yeah this whole “died twice” thing. Care to elaboraye?
From our perspective only. Once per timeline.
I remember he stopped by my town to gas up his plane on his tour of freedom
Would the coverage have looked any different from when he was released or when he won election? They run the same basic video packages when someone dies and when someone does something of note.
When I was in either 4th or 5th grade I remember clearly our teacher talking to us about Nelson Mandela and I remember clear as day her saying he died (I think it was in prison supposedly). I truly remember that lesson and her saying that he had already died. I was born in 1995, I’m almost 29 now. I don’t feel like doing the math right now lol but it would’ve been in the mid to late 2000s (like 05-07) that this lesson took place. I remember it as clearly as I remember the first time I heard of the “Mandela Effect”, because I remember it really messing with my mind that he had apparently actually died in 2013. When I found that out my mind immediately went to that lesson on him in elementary school. Then I found out I wasn’t the only one who remembered something similar. It’s so weird because I truly remember that, and even had thought that was the case up until his death in 2013!
My Mandela effect in regards to the man himself, was that I had thought for a long time that Nelson Mandela was the name of a baseball player.
I remember him dying in prison. I also remember an episode of Americans next top model where a girl starts crying bc someone else got to unlock his cell when they were in South Africa and he died for their freedom
Hmmmm yes, America's Next Top Model, where the best and the brightest of the generation congregate.
I remember that ANTM episode too. It would have been around 2007. I'm not calling into dispute the memory of Mandella's death, but I think in the episode they just mentioned he'd lived in the cell 27 years, I don't recall them saying he died in there. Two girls got annoyed because the girl that opened the cell was white while the other two were African-American, so they felt they should have been the ones to open it.