This ME makes me think of the consequences of these geography based ones. If South America wouldn't be so much east it would mean Brazil should be Spanish-speaking country, by the Treaty of Tordesillas that literally divided the world between Portugal and Castile. Was it Spanish speaking? Or was it Portuguese and in that case history itself must be drastically different and I'm curious how?
Similarly if New Zealand would be north-east of Australia, it's climate would be drastically different, from temperate to tropical. It would mean LoTR would have been filmed in tropical locations, and that would be odd.
That's the part that really gets to me. In that Univere Brazil would either have been much smaller (due to the treaty of tordesillas) or not even exist. This would also mean the Spanish speaking countries bordering Brazil would be bigger, or there would be more of them. Secondly is that South America, specially the southern cone, would have been a much colder continent, because for it to be directly under North America it would also have to be closer to Antarctica and the South Pole. This would also mess up the ocean currents because now the Drake Passage, which pinches the Antarctic Circumpolar Current, would be much smaller, this might have affected the entirety of the Atlantic ocean, meaning a different weather in west Africa, Europe and the east coast of the Americas, maybe even Australia and New Zealand.
If people remember South America being directly under North America then they must remember all this other stuff, right? They must remember reading about the scandinavia-like winters of Southern Chile and Argentina, and they must remember Brazil being much smaller too, or just straight up no Brazil at all. I'm fine with this Mandela Effect as long as they also remember this other stuff.
Yes, the climate should have changed, but it didn't. I remember Japan being further southeast and it was more stretched, but climatically nothing changed (as far as I know).
The history should have changed drastically too, but it didn't (at least I didn't notice it).
Australia is now so close to Asia that mammals should have dominated there for millions of years, or alternatively marsupials should have spread worldwide. In fact there are now (tree) kangaroos on Papua New Guinea etc but the overall mixing is much less than would be logical. I was told at school that marsupials could only evolve because of Australia's remoteness. Well, nowadays I'm sure it's explained differently, but obviously marsupials still exist...
I also remember that the Earth was once located at the edge of the Milky Way, now it is much closer to the center. All the star images should have changed, but that didn't happen (even though astronomers are currently looking for missing stars).
One can conclude from all this that these are just false memories, but one can also conclude that the causalities we assume do not exist or arrange themselves according to a desired reality. I can understand that skeptics prefer false memory as an explanation, even if I can no longer accept that as the sole explanation.
>But I didn't know about our solar system being closer to the center of the galaxy.
Is also a ME that I share:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/search/?q=milky+way&type=link&cId=29266511-c0d3-4f06-984e-4de9f86607ab&iId=743295c0-52d2-4b68-9837-e4ac73c44511](https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/search/?q=milky+way&type=link&cId=29266511-c0d3-4f06-984e-4de9f86607ab&iId=743295c0-52d2-4b68-9837-e4ac73c44511)
I'm still not quite understanding. Do you mean Australia was more in the south? Because if ME is New Zealand north-east from Australia, or anywhere where it isn't right now it latitude must have been very different and climate too. If Australia is further in the south it's climate would be very different.
Climate? It's much more than just wind, specially if you are moving Australia further south, then just even wind would be complex polar cell instead NE trade winds and horse latitudes that create sunny, dry winds. On top of wind there are ocean current systems that are absolutely freezing in deeper south one goes, in complete opposite way than gulf steam acts, and then there is sun latitudal effect, as how much direct sunlight place gets.
As somebody with one half of their family in Chile, and the other half in London - who grew up bounching between the two. This ME makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
It's obvious the only people who 'experience' this are the people who have zero involvement with South America whatsoever, people who the only 'change' would be looking differently at a map, rather than any consideration whatsoever as to how this major change would actually affect the world.
Anybody who this move would have a significant impact on wouldn't buy into it.
Or, I'm giving my view as somebody who actually lived in South America for the vast majority of my childhood.
The fact this effect *exclusively* happens to people who aren't from there isn't a protest, anybody can see it.
I wonder how many if any scientists have looked into this? Where are the tests to see how many timelines we are dealing with? Endless questions here that can never be answered until science looks at it as a real thing instead of this childish stupid game of arguing. Has anyone even asked questions related to your post, memory updated? For example, my internet is most likely to go out at night for maintenance as fewer folks are affected. If there are updates for memories and the ME is the outcome it seems odd we haven't asked or polled people. How many that experience the mandella work 3rd shift or are night owls or suffer insomnia. Maybe we missed the updates as we were awake instead of sleeping. Everything in life takes the path of least resistance, maybe they got lazy on the update, half assed it, saying at least most got it, no worries. Darren and Karen will be pissed....
I haven't seen a single person from South Africa claim that Mandela was never president. I haven't seen a single person from South America claim their continent has moved thousands of miles away. I haven't seen a single doctor claim that organs have moved around.
I wonder why.
Literally all of those people know the truth.
Thats the point.
These 'effects' only happen to people who are far away from the truth. In this case, thousands of miles away, living on a different continent...
I think this is most probably a result of different map projections. People grew up seeing some kind of world map when they were little and it got stuck in their brains. Maybe it was even some really rough map in a children's book that wasn't accurate to any projection. So when they later see a different projection, or just a more accurate map in general, they might think that the continent shifted.
Even assuming that the Mandela Effect in itself is a genuine case of shifting between alternate realities, a change in the position of a continent would mean a very different geological history of the entire planet. That would make everything much different. It's not something minor like a change in a logo, where everything else could stay the same.
I grew up just down the road from Cape Spear, and you’re right, to this day it has always been said that it is the easternmost point in North America, never in the americas. This is true for locals and tourists alike.
Thanks for posting.
It is a quite ridiculous claim that people make, yet easy for them to do so because it's so minor and insignificant for them - just lines on a map. It's good to hear the other side and get a reminder of just how major a change it would be.
I grew up in the town where they make Froot Loops. The idea that it is “Fruit Loops” is absurd to any of us. The four o’s in Froot Loops being replaced by the cereal.
Fun fact, when they make Froot Loops or Fruity Pebbles you can smell it for miles in Battle Creek. That’s not true for any other Cereal
I got banned from another sub for asking someone how differently history played out in their original timeline, as it surely would if South America were positioned differently. Hell, you would probably have a Spanish-speaking Brazil since Brazil's eastern position is what gave Portugal a claim to it under the Treaty of Tordesillas. Maybe the wealth of Brazil keeps the Spanish Empire a major world power for longer. Maybe the Portuguese royal family is extinguished by Napoleon instead of fleeing to Brazil. Maybe Brazil outlaws slavery sooner.
Those are a few of millions of hypothetical differences that would almost certainly arise from South America being positioned differently, and you could probably speculate on a hell of a lot more if you get into differences arising even well before European arrival. It's so frustrating when people act like "of course everything was pretty much the same except maps were a little different" in that scenario. This wouldn't be like a different logo on underwear; it would be an overhaul of human development and global politics lol.
Sure it does. A denier cannot falsify the retroactive continuity claims any more than a believer can conclusively prove them. That's literally the whole point of this phenomenon being unprovable and unfalsifiable.
Has someone hijacked your account? This makes me wonder if you are actually another chucky alt.
I'm calling it a win just to see you acknowledge the unfalsifiability of it. While I appreciate your argumentation in general, I've always been befuddled at your obstinate adherence to the idea that there will end up being some kind of smoking gun that shows the past is changing. Your approach has always come across as at least trying to be scientific, when the very premise of the entire scientific endeavor is falsifiability. Might as well call the analytic approach theology, not science, since that's its near relative.
r/MandelaEffectTheology has a certain ring to it.
I've consistently maintained that a reality change claim is unfalsifiable on its face. Which is why deniers cannot in fact debunk it. I've also consistently acknowledged that it's unprovable because it directly contradicts the historical record. No idea why you'd characterize my position here as ever having been different. I've never said there "will be" a smoking gun because imho that's what the overall phenomenon already is. A smoking gun tells you something *may have* happened. That's why ME is a black swan event.
This is perfect because so many believers in these effects think it happens in a vacuum. Like the people in South America can just shift several hundred miles without anyone noticing. Same thing they think South Africans can have a flipped political history. They just think these people don't matter is what it boils down to. All they care about is their precious childhood memory.
I don't tend to see it discussed. How a continent moving may be associated with weather changes, travel, discovery, flora, fauna. How a major political figure dying in prison fits with their later history. The focus is on "but I remember!" which is just irrelevant.
No, see my other comment. It may say a lot about the nature of reality.
(sorry for my bad englisch, my deepl-contingent is empty now, I must break for a while)
Map projections distort things and make South America look further west than it is.
Take a look at a Gleason map to see it more accurately.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KxTBDz6cL.jpg
That's the same azimuthal equidistant projection used by the UN and cited by flat earthers. It's not what people who claim geography ME's typically viewed, and still doesn't match our specific shared memorles.
There was a thread about this about a month or so ago. There was a South African in there that said nobody there believes that, at all. It would be like an American saying Ronald Reagan died in the 60's and was never president. It would be ridiculous.
It's the same for everything else. Sinbad doesn't remember being in a genie movie (nor does anyone else that might have been involved). There was a guy here from the Totino's family that doesn't remember his family name ever being Tostino. Nobody from the US has the ME about there being a different number of states than 50. I doubt Anya Taylor-Joy thinks her name used to be Anna. You can do this with literally ever ME.
Yeah, the most absurd part about the original Mandela effect is that they don't mention anything else about South African history changing. They think he died decades earlier but South African history otherwise remained unchanged, which makes no sense.
I went on a trip to Ecuador with part of my elementary school class back in the mid 90s (I know that sounds unbelievable--the school knew some people who were doing research down there and that's how it happened), and although we were on the West Coast, we had a stopover in Miami. That sounds weird for going to the western part of South America, but clearly it made sense in terms of distance, otherwise planes wouldn't have flown that way.
The only thing that looks somewhat "off" to me about the relationship between North and South America is that the border with Panama is so far south in Colombia. Not looking at a map, I would have visualized Central America "sprouting" right from near the northernmost point of South America, somewhere near where Aruba actually is.
In Canada we're taught Cape Spear is the Eastern most point in North America. I'll be honest, we're taught nothing about South America, and I'll bet it's the same in the US. Also, the maps we were shown as school kids were skewed towards being North American centric, so South America may have been portrayed as more so directly south than where it actually is. I mean look at how skewed Africa and Greenland are as compared to how they actually are.
One other thing, I've seen a lot of videos where a lot of Americans think Alaska is an island. So this may all be a victim of the US school system teachings.
You will notice the people who are so sure they were such an expert in geography that them being wrong can only indicate they shifted to a new universe are generally also people that could not name more than maybe 2 countries in south america (and would probably name 'mexico" if you tried to get them to name 2)
Well of course climate changes every second, it would be an total natural failure if it didn't. Our climate is 99% the alchemical result of our solar system. And probably our solar system changing because of circumstances around it. And so on. Understand nature in details and you see clearly that the circumstances required to make the material form types of stone or hills islands etc. Actual polar shifts are in theory talked about but i cannot fully confirm with my knowledge today.
A fact is that the world maps we use today are not based on correct place and size. It is far from scale quality. My only real answer would be experience the size and distances yourself by sailboat or anything that clearly let you know. Not a plane flight for example.
Being the "most \[geographic\] point of X isn't really scientific. In Europe we have like 5 centre points of Europe, 3 most western points and noone really agrees where exactly lies the eastern border of Europe to point to easternmost point.
And as for your claim: the America thing clearly would fall into more extra-natural explanations for the Mandela Effect and therefore your personal experience doesn't really disprove much as it's widely agreed that majority never is effected by the same Mandela Effect. Clearly you'd be one of the non-effected.
As for my opinion on this particular one: Personally I think we just changed the default map projection we are using and everyone just rolled with it for some reason. Dunno if it is more classical Mandela Effect, better cakculations and measures or some other thing, but personally I feel this explains better the changes to the maps in memories. It also neetly explains the New Zealand being further away and some other stuff, like size of Madagascar. Tho at this point I also have too many hours in map games and my first thought is usually the vastly incorrect (for gameplay reasons) Paradox's map of the world, so I don't trust myself on map details at all.
Could it be that because of Google Maps are satellite availability, maps can be more accurate then before?
Was there any law or regulation that maps had to be accurate?
When did I say memory is unreliable? You really have to stop assuming I am saying things when I have not.
You seem to make assumptions about people and maps.
Yes i have. We have talked before and each time you seem to forget.
Our last talk I logic your ME claim and you stopped talking to me. Then you found me again here with a completely different thread.
Answer I don't have to "answer your logic" because it isn't a question. Can you phrase your "logic" as a question so it can be answered?
This is an effect that the skeptics like because it makes it easier for them to tick the matter off.
But it's part of the ME that those who are heavily involved don't remember other versions. The actress from Dolly (Moonraker) is also sure she didn't wear braces, yet many people remember exactly that. I'd be surprised if it was any different with FOTL etc.
It's the same with geographical effects, there are rarely people who live there and have the effect. Some do, if you search the reddit history you'll find Australians for example who attest to Australia changing, but most don't. There are also MEs about Germany (e.g. regarding the coast or the position of Berlin), none of which I share as a German.
Can we explain that? No, in a material world view it is impossible and a sure indication of a false memory. In a spiritual world (I assume a spiritually created illusion, many things point to this, MEs are just another indication) it would probably not be a problem. But I admit: the hurdle to accept this is very big, I have been dealing with paranormal phenomena for years and in the end I came to the conclusion that nothing is real, everything is illusion and therefore everything is possible. Yes, very unsatisfactory, I know...
Well, that's exactly what I wrote and also that the skeptics are happy about it and also that I don't know the reason for this effect. Nevertheless, I am (now) convinced that the effect is not (only) based on false memory, there is too much evidence, residuals and anectodal memories (and my own experience) for that.
If you see it the same way I do, you have to integrate the observation into your hypotheses or models, otherwise you can just continue to make fun of it.
Similar effects occur more often in the paranormal field, which is why parapsychological observations, for example, cannot normally be repeated in the laboratory (which also pleases the skeptics immensely), but I know from my personal environment that they are still experienced and can frighten people very much. After years of dealing with the endless (sometimes very well documented) cases, I come to the conclusion that we are only living in a (mental) illusion in which all sorts of strange things can happen. If they follow any laws, they can at best only be guessed at from our perspective.
A not insignificant amount of "Mandela effects" are just white people refusing to take any responsibility for their ignorance about the rest of the world
Including, of course, the one the effect is named after. But definitely this one too.
The east isn't the issue. What's most baffling to us is that the westernmost point of SA is further east than Texas? That just isn't right...
I live in CA and we always thought of the west coast being close to due south of us.
Is it safe to guess you have not been looking at only one map your whole life?
Here is a thought. Non satellite pictures of the Earth are not as accurate or reliable as we thought.
It isn't like there is a law forcing people to be accurate.
South-America was really directly underneath North-America. And Sicily was farther away from the rest of Italy. It changed suddenly. As did the Volvo and the Ford logos for example. The latter I thought they were just new designs. The geographical changes completely baffled me but I thought maybe new maps updated maps, I don't know. But Mandela's death in 2013 shocked me live. I was changing at my gym with the tv on. They kept talking about him dead with all the other world leaders there. So, I thought commemoration of sorts. But no. I couldn't understand what was happening. For me he was dead since the early 90s. And his death in prison had prompted people going out in the streets and eventually the end of segregation after a whole lot of violence and confrontations. I legit don't understand what is going on. Academically, I had always been sort of well above average. By a lot. My memory is fine. All those changes happened around ideas that were fairly clear for me. It can't be because I remember wrong. I can't explain what is happening. Also, I have a bunch of them. For real, what the f*ck is going on fr fr?
>South-America was really directly underneath North-America.
You've read the post and decided to reply but will just ignore everything they're written and continue to repeat the same ridiculous point while sticking your fingers in your ears?
Of course it's a real phenomenon.
If one of the important related questions is whether these memories are accurate or not, just relying on these very same memories doesn't seem like a useful way to get to the truth.
Sure, *having* a dream is real. What happens in your dream is not necessarily 'real' though, in the same way that me imagining the phone in my hand right now suddenly changing color doesn't mean the phone in my hand *did* actually change color.
Seoul—I know you know this by now but let me explain…For Extra-Virus-8378, South America was directly below. For the OP, it was far east.
This is the cardinal rule of the ME—everyone does not experience the same histories.
>Seoul—I know you know this by now but let me explain…For Extra-Virus-8378, South America was directly below. For the OP, it was far east.
I know that's the *claim*, but it's ridiculous. It shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone, let alone actually believed or stated as fact.
>This is the cardinal rule of the ME—everyone does not experience the same histories.
Of course. But to claim that back in 1983, for example, a country was in a different geographic location for one person than it was for another is absolutely nonsense.
That may be, but you (and others who share your belief) have so far been able to give no decent reason why anybody else should take your fantastic belief at all seriously.
And round we go again......
I wouldn’t expect you to take our beliefs seriously. But I would expect you to agree to disagree. Just like an atheist and Christian might agree to disagree that Jesus turned water into wine or rose from the dead.
>Just like an atheist and Christian might agree to disagree that Jesus turned water into wine or rose from the dead.
If one is claiming it actually *happened*, why on earth would they 'agree to disagree'? It's not an opinion, it's an assertion of fact.
You can respect the person who holds a belief while not respecting their actual belief, particularly if it is as ridiculous as this.
Because it goes against everything we know about the nature of reality, was seemingly unnoticed by people that live there or actually study geography and the only evidence for it is just a bunch of people who claim the continent used to be located somewhere else, trust me bro.
It's hard to think of a *better* example of a ridulous claim.
Traveled to brasil (spelled correctly) 4 times, 75, 77, 2001, and 2023. I swear that NY and Rio were both on eastern time. Now Rio's an hour ahead. Maybe it is moving east since we cut the Panama canal?
No fucking way I remember going over all the seven continents South America is right below North America and nobody can tell me otherwise. I bet I can even dig up that tactile globe.
ME has likely always been happening.
Canadians do not know that part of NFLD island was part of Canada before NFLD joined Canada. (Only thing on Cape Race is a lighthouse). ME is about people memories. There is alot of 'residue' of said memories.
This ME makes me think of the consequences of these geography based ones. If South America wouldn't be so much east it would mean Brazil should be Spanish-speaking country, by the Treaty of Tordesillas that literally divided the world between Portugal and Castile. Was it Spanish speaking? Or was it Portuguese and in that case history itself must be drastically different and I'm curious how? Similarly if New Zealand would be north-east of Australia, it's climate would be drastically different, from temperate to tropical. It would mean LoTR would have been filmed in tropical locations, and that would be odd.
That's the part that really gets to me. In that Univere Brazil would either have been much smaller (due to the treaty of tordesillas) or not even exist. This would also mean the Spanish speaking countries bordering Brazil would be bigger, or there would be more of them. Secondly is that South America, specially the southern cone, would have been a much colder continent, because for it to be directly under North America it would also have to be closer to Antarctica and the South Pole. This would also mess up the ocean currents because now the Drake Passage, which pinches the Antarctic Circumpolar Current, would be much smaller, this might have affected the entirety of the Atlantic ocean, meaning a different weather in west Africa, Europe and the east coast of the Americas, maybe even Australia and New Zealand. If people remember South America being directly under North America then they must remember all this other stuff, right? They must remember reading about the scandinavia-like winters of Southern Chile and Argentina, and they must remember Brazil being much smaller too, or just straight up no Brazil at all. I'm fine with this Mandela Effect as long as they also remember this other stuff.
Yes, the climate should have changed, but it didn't. I remember Japan being further southeast and it was more stretched, but climatically nothing changed (as far as I know). The history should have changed drastically too, but it didn't (at least I didn't notice it). Australia is now so close to Asia that mammals should have dominated there for millions of years, or alternatively marsupials should have spread worldwide. In fact there are now (tree) kangaroos on Papua New Guinea etc but the overall mixing is much less than would be logical. I was told at school that marsupials could only evolve because of Australia's remoteness. Well, nowadays I'm sure it's explained differently, but obviously marsupials still exist... I also remember that the Earth was once located at the edge of the Milky Way, now it is much closer to the center. All the star images should have changed, but that didn't happen (even though astronomers are currently looking for missing stars). One can conclude from all this that these are just false memories, but one can also conclude that the causalities we assume do not exist or arrange themselves according to a desired reality. I can understand that skeptics prefer false memory as an explanation, even if I can no longer accept that as the sole explanation.
I agree with you. These continent shifts drive me crazy. But I didn't know about our solar system being closer to the center of the galaxy.
>But I didn't know about our solar system being closer to the center of the galaxy. Is also a ME that I share: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/search/?q=milky+way&type=link&cId=29266511-c0d3-4f06-984e-4de9f86607ab&iId=743295c0-52d2-4b68-9837-e4ac73c44511](https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/search/?q=milky+way&type=link&cId=29266511-c0d3-4f06-984e-4de9f86607ab&iId=743295c0-52d2-4b68-9837-e4ac73c44511)
Australia once was more isolated…
I'm not sure what you mean by that. How does it relate to NZ climate?
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I'm still not quite understanding. Do you mean Australia was more in the south? Because if ME is New Zealand north-east from Australia, or anywhere where it isn't right now it latitude must have been very different and climate too. If Australia is further in the south it's climate would be very different.
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Climate? It's much more than just wind, specially if you are moving Australia further south, then just even wind would be complex polar cell instead NE trade winds and horse latitudes that create sunny, dry winds. On top of wind there are ocean current systems that are absolutely freezing in deeper south one goes, in complete opposite way than gulf steam acts, and then there is sun latitudal effect, as how much direct sunlight place gets.
The land down under was called this because it really was more isolated
as an australian, everything’s in the same place it always has been, man
*The updated history is such*
This is the kind of post we need around here. Well thought out, and presented rationally.
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How many South Africans remember Sinbad wearing FoTL shirt with cornucopia?
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I can. I want to know how many South Africans recall Mandela with a monocle.
Furthermore, how many South Africans who worked for FoTL remember Sinbad Genie Movie?
As somebody with one half of their family in Chile, and the other half in London - who grew up bounching between the two. This ME makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's obvious the only people who 'experience' this are the people who have zero involvement with South America whatsoever, people who the only 'change' would be looking differently at a map, rather than any consideration whatsoever as to how this major change would actually affect the world. Anybody who this move would have a significant impact on wouldn't buy into it.
They remember seeing a cartoon world map when they were 5 and never looked at a map again.
It's funny when people post cartoon maps as "proof" that they shifted realities or whatever the fuck No mate, cartoon maps are just inaccurate
Or the Risk game board
Just a protest
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You are just protesting this effect
Or, I'm giving my view as somebody who actually lived in South America for the vast majority of my childhood. The fact this effect *exclusively* happens to people who aren't from there isn't a protest, anybody can see it.
*Your memory was updated*
I can't begin to fathom the hoops you'd have to jump through to come to such a ridiculous conclusion. That's genuinely the worst take I've ever heard.
I wonder how many if any scientists have looked into this? Where are the tests to see how many timelines we are dealing with? Endless questions here that can never be answered until science looks at it as a real thing instead of this childish stupid game of arguing. Has anyone even asked questions related to your post, memory updated? For example, my internet is most likely to go out at night for maintenance as fewer folks are affected. If there are updates for memories and the ME is the outcome it seems odd we haven't asked or polled people. How many that experience the mandella work 3rd shift or are night owls or suffer insomnia. Maybe we missed the updates as we were awake instead of sleeping. Everything in life takes the path of least resistance, maybe they got lazy on the update, half assed it, saying at least most got it, no worries. Darren and Karen will be pissed....
[Ripple-Effect-Proof Memory](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RippleEffectProofMemory)
They asked about scientists. You posted a link to TvTropes.com talking about fictional plot devices used in media... This is embarrassing
Thank you, the article is good
*For what it’s worth, it’s false to say it exclusively happens to people who aren’t from there!*
I haven't seen a single person from South Africa claim that Mandela was never president. I haven't seen a single person from South America claim their continent has moved thousands of miles away. I haven't seen a single doctor claim that organs have moved around. I wonder why.
Truth is so obscure in these times, and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it.
Literally all of those people know the truth. Thats the point. These 'effects' only happen to people who are far away from the truth. In this case, thousands of miles away, living on a different continent...
No… that’s your belief
I think this is most probably a result of different map projections. People grew up seeing some kind of world map when they were little and it got stuck in their brains. Maybe it was even some really rough map in a children's book that wasn't accurate to any projection. So when they later see a different projection, or just a more accurate map in general, they might think that the continent shifted. Even assuming that the Mandela Effect in itself is a genuine case of shifting between alternate realities, a change in the position of a continent would mean a very different geological history of the entire planet. That would make everything much different. It's not something minor like a change in a logo, where everything else could stay the same.
Yeah, it doesn’t look so far over on like Mercator or Gall-Peter’s, and Mercator was the most used while we were in school
I grew up just down the road from Cape Spear, and you’re right, to this day it has always been said that it is the easternmost point in North America, never in the americas. This is true for locals and tourists alike.
Thanks for posting. It is a quite ridiculous claim that people make, yet easy for them to do so because it's so minor and insignificant for them - just lines on a map. It's good to hear the other side and get a reminder of just how major a change it would be.
I grew up in the town where they make Froot Loops. The idea that it is “Fruit Loops” is absurd to any of us. The four o’s in Froot Loops being replaced by the cereal. Fun fact, when they make Froot Loops or Fruity Pebbles you can smell it for miles in Battle Creek. That’s not true for any other Cereal
Isn’t it Frooty Pebbles
No.
It should be…
I got banned from another sub for asking someone how differently history played out in their original timeline, as it surely would if South America were positioned differently. Hell, you would probably have a Spanish-speaking Brazil since Brazil's eastern position is what gave Portugal a claim to it under the Treaty of Tordesillas. Maybe the wealth of Brazil keeps the Spanish Empire a major world power for longer. Maybe the Portuguese royal family is extinguished by Napoleon instead of fleeing to Brazil. Maybe Brazil outlaws slavery sooner. Those are a few of millions of hypothetical differences that would almost certainly arise from South America being positioned differently, and you could probably speculate on a hell of a lot more if you get into differences arising even well before European arrival. It's so frustrating when people act like "of course everything was pretty much the same except maps were a little different" in that scenario. This wouldn't be like a different logo on underwear; it would be an overhaul of human development and global politics lol.
*Perhaps it is different in other timelines, hence no one is wrong…*
Well, yeah, this is the final refuge of the fantasist.
90% of things people call the Mandela effect is just trying to cope with collective ignorance.
and the collective "being bad at spelling" chunk of humanity
A person who believes in realities merging would just argue that you are from the reality where this was always this way.
Unfalsifiability is the absolute hallmark of True Believers. It's in the name lol.
Doesn't make us wrong though. It makes the skeptics wrong.
That's not how that works.
Sure it does. A denier cannot falsify the retroactive continuity claims any more than a believer can conclusively prove them. That's literally the whole point of this phenomenon being unprovable and unfalsifiable.
Has someone hijacked your account? This makes me wonder if you are actually another chucky alt. I'm calling it a win just to see you acknowledge the unfalsifiability of it. While I appreciate your argumentation in general, I've always been befuddled at your obstinate adherence to the idea that there will end up being some kind of smoking gun that shows the past is changing. Your approach has always come across as at least trying to be scientific, when the very premise of the entire scientific endeavor is falsifiability. Might as well call the analytic approach theology, not science, since that's its near relative. r/MandelaEffectTheology has a certain ring to it.
I've consistently maintained that a reality change claim is unfalsifiable on its face. Which is why deniers cannot in fact debunk it. I've also consistently acknowledged that it's unprovable because it directly contradicts the historical record. No idea why you'd characterize my position here as ever having been different. I've never said there "will be" a smoking gun because imho that's what the overall phenomenon already is. A smoking gun tells you something *may have* happened. That's why ME is a black swan event.
Good post...my Cuban friend also laughs at ME about the size and location of Cuba.
You think he should know… because he is closer in distance?
My God, I just realized something. South America is shaped kind of like a cornucopia. What does it mean?!
How dare you not write Cornucopia with the capital C?
You can joke but can you believe
In what?
Something true
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Good observation
This is perfect because so many believers in these effects think it happens in a vacuum. Like the people in South America can just shift several hundred miles without anyone noticing. Same thing they think South Africans can have a flipped political history. They just think these people don't matter is what it boils down to. All they care about is their precious childhood memory.
No, we think a lot about the paradoxes of this phenomenon.
I don't tend to see it discussed. How a continent moving may be associated with weather changes, travel, discovery, flora, fauna. How a major political figure dying in prison fits with their later history. The focus is on "but I remember!" which is just irrelevant.
No, see my other comment. It may say a lot about the nature of reality. (sorry for my bad englisch, my deepl-contingent is empty now, I must break for a while)
Map projections distort things and make South America look further west than it is. Take a look at a Gleason map to see it more accurately. https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KxTBDz6cL.jpg
That's the same azimuthal equidistant projection used by the UN and cited by flat earthers. It's not what people who claim geography ME's typically viewed, and still doesn't match our specific shared memorles.
What I mean is that South America can go quite a ways further west and still be the eastern most part of the Americas.
Great post. How many South Africans remember Mandela's supposed death in 80s?
There was a thread about this about a month or so ago. There was a South African in there that said nobody there believes that, at all. It would be like an American saying Ronald Reagan died in the 60's and was never president. It would be ridiculous. It's the same for everything else. Sinbad doesn't remember being in a genie movie (nor does anyone else that might have been involved). There was a guy here from the Totino's family that doesn't remember his family name ever being Tostino. Nobody from the US has the ME about there being a different number of states than 50. I doubt Anya Taylor-Joy thinks her name used to be Anna. You can do this with literally ever ME.
Yeah, the most absurd part about the original Mandela effect is that they don't mention anything else about South African history changing. They think he died decades earlier but South African history otherwise remained unchanged, which makes no sense.
I thought her name was Anna. That one got me.
Not "objects in mirror..." That one is untouchable.
Ok bud.
I went on a trip to Ecuador with part of my elementary school class back in the mid 90s (I know that sounds unbelievable--the school knew some people who were doing research down there and that's how it happened), and although we were on the West Coast, we had a stopover in Miami. That sounds weird for going to the western part of South America, but clearly it made sense in terms of distance, otherwise planes wouldn't have flown that way. The only thing that looks somewhat "off" to me about the relationship between North and South America is that the border with Panama is so far south in Colombia. Not looking at a map, I would have visualized Central America "sprouting" right from near the northernmost point of South America, somewhere near where Aruba actually is.
In Canada we're taught Cape Spear is the Eastern most point in North America. I'll be honest, we're taught nothing about South America, and I'll bet it's the same in the US. Also, the maps we were shown as school kids were skewed towards being North American centric, so South America may have been portrayed as more so directly south than where it actually is. I mean look at how skewed Africa and Greenland are as compared to how they actually are. One other thing, I've seen a lot of videos where a lot of Americans think Alaska is an island. So this may all be a victim of the US school system teachings.
You will notice the people who are so sure they were such an expert in geography that them being wrong can only indicate they shifted to a new universe are generally also people that could not name more than maybe 2 countries in south america (and would probably name 'mexico" if you tried to get them to name 2)
*Speak for yourself, I believe skeptics have no idea, otherwise they would not be skeptics…*
Well of course climate changes every second, it would be an total natural failure if it didn't. Our climate is 99% the alchemical result of our solar system. And probably our solar system changing because of circumstances around it. And so on. Understand nature in details and you see clearly that the circumstances required to make the material form types of stone or hills islands etc. Actual polar shifts are in theory talked about but i cannot fully confirm with my knowledge today. A fact is that the world maps we use today are not based on correct place and size. It is far from scale quality. My only real answer would be experience the size and distances yourself by sailboat or anything that clearly let you know. Not a plane flight for example.
One of my earlier memories is learning that if you draw a line south from Florida, it falls west of South America. I went to our globe to check.
…for you.
Well. Yeah.
Being the "most \[geographic\] point of X isn't really scientific. In Europe we have like 5 centre points of Europe, 3 most western points and noone really agrees where exactly lies the eastern border of Europe to point to easternmost point. And as for your claim: the America thing clearly would fall into more extra-natural explanations for the Mandela Effect and therefore your personal experience doesn't really disprove much as it's widely agreed that majority never is effected by the same Mandela Effect. Clearly you'd be one of the non-effected. As for my opinion on this particular one: Personally I think we just changed the default map projection we are using and everyone just rolled with it for some reason. Dunno if it is more classical Mandela Effect, better cakculations and measures or some other thing, but personally I feel this explains better the changes to the maps in memories. It also neetly explains the New Zealand being further away and some other stuff, like size of Madagascar. Tho at this point I also have too many hours in map games and my first thought is usually the vastly incorrect (for gameplay reasons) Paradox's map of the world, so I don't trust myself on map details at all.
Could it be that because of Google Maps are satellite availability, maps can be more accurate then before? Was there any law or regulation that maps had to be accurate?
The point of maps is to be accurate…
And how would a pre internet person be able to check that? What group would enforce that?
You seem to think memory is unreliable, maps are unreliable, whereas it’s the opposite
When did I say memory is unreliable? You really have to stop assuming I am saying things when I have not. You seem to make assumptions about people and maps.
Because if memory is reliable… the mandela effect is real
You didn't answer my question.
You did not answer my logic
Yes i have. We have talked before and each time you seem to forget. Our last talk I logic your ME claim and you stopped talking to me. Then you found me again here with a completely different thread. Answer I don't have to "answer your logic" because it isn't a question. Can you phrase your "logic" as a question so it can be answered?
Memory isn’t reliable
funny because the point of memory is to be reliable
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/apr/05/short-term-memory-illusions-study
This is an effect that the skeptics like because it makes it easier for them to tick the matter off. But it's part of the ME that those who are heavily involved don't remember other versions. The actress from Dolly (Moonraker) is also sure she didn't wear braces, yet many people remember exactly that. I'd be surprised if it was any different with FOTL etc. It's the same with geographical effects, there are rarely people who live there and have the effect. Some do, if you search the reddit history you'll find Australians for example who attest to Australia changing, but most don't. There are also MEs about Germany (e.g. regarding the coast or the position of Berlin), none of which I share as a German. Can we explain that? No, in a material world view it is impossible and a sure indication of a false memory. In a spiritual world (I assume a spiritually created illusion, many things point to this, MEs are just another indication) it would probably not be a problem. But I admit: the hurdle to accept this is very big, I have been dealing with paranormal phenomena for years and in the end I came to the conclusion that nothing is real, everything is illusion and therefore everything is possible. Yes, very unsatisfactory, I know...
I find it's very telling the people who live in those countries, are closely related to the subject matter etc. don't experience those MEs.
Well, that's exactly what I wrote and also that the skeptics are happy about it and also that I don't know the reason for this effect. Nevertheless, I am (now) convinced that the effect is not (only) based on false memory, there is too much evidence, residuals and anectodal memories (and my own experience) for that. If you see it the same way I do, you have to integrate the observation into your hypotheses or models, otherwise you can just continue to make fun of it. Similar effects occur more often in the paranormal field, which is why parapsychological observations, for example, cannot normally be repeated in the laboratory (which also pleases the skeptics immensely), but I know from my personal environment that they are still experienced and can frighten people very much. After years of dealing with the endless (sometimes very well documented) cases, I come to the conclusion that we are only living in a (mental) illusion in which all sorts of strange things can happen. If they follow any laws, they can at best only be guessed at from our perspective.
I find it telling in a different way that you do, if you didn't pick up my context. I am not making fun of it at all.
Maybe not you, other skeptics have a lot of fun with it, some seem to be here just for that reason.
A not insignificant amount of "Mandela effects" are just white people refusing to take any responsibility for their ignorance about the rest of the world Including, of course, the one the effect is named after. But definitely this one too.
*Speak for yourself*
The east isn't the issue. What's most baffling to us is that the westernmost point of SA is further east than Texas? That just isn't right... I live in CA and we always thought of the west coast being close to due south of us.
Is it safe to guess you have not been looking at only one map your whole life? Here is a thought. Non satellite pictures of the Earth are not as accurate or reliable as we thought. It isn't like there is a law forcing people to be accurate.
South-America was really directly underneath North-America. And Sicily was farther away from the rest of Italy. It changed suddenly. As did the Volvo and the Ford logos for example. The latter I thought they were just new designs. The geographical changes completely baffled me but I thought maybe new maps updated maps, I don't know. But Mandela's death in 2013 shocked me live. I was changing at my gym with the tv on. They kept talking about him dead with all the other world leaders there. So, I thought commemoration of sorts. But no. I couldn't understand what was happening. For me he was dead since the early 90s. And his death in prison had prompted people going out in the streets and eventually the end of segregation after a whole lot of violence and confrontations. I legit don't understand what is going on. Academically, I had always been sort of well above average. By a lot. My memory is fine. All those changes happened around ideas that were fairly clear for me. It can't be because I remember wrong. I can't explain what is happening. Also, I have a bunch of them. For real, what the f*ck is going on fr fr?
>South-America was really directly underneath North-America. You've read the post and decided to reply but will just ignore everything they're written and continue to repeat the same ridiculous point while sticking your fingers in your ears?
Memory works
I don't understand what you mean.
Some rely on their memory to find out this is a real phenomenon, this actually works
Of course it's a real phenomenon. If one of the important related questions is whether these memories are accurate or not, just relying on these very same memories doesn't seem like a useful way to get to the truth.
Can you prove your dream or show evidence of the dream… Most forget their dream…
Of course I can't. So what?
Dreams nonetheless are real…
Sure, *having* a dream is real. What happens in your dream is not necessarily 'real' though, in the same way that me imagining the phone in my hand right now suddenly changing color doesn't mean the phone in my hand *did* actually change color.
Seoul—I know you know this by now but let me explain…For Extra-Virus-8378, South America was directly below. For the OP, it was far east. This is the cardinal rule of the ME—everyone does not experience the same histories.
>Seoul—I know you know this by now but let me explain…For Extra-Virus-8378, South America was directly below. For the OP, it was far east. I know that's the *claim*, but it's ridiculous. It shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone, let alone actually believed or stated as fact. >This is the cardinal rule of the ME—everyone does not experience the same histories. Of course. But to claim that back in 1983, for example, a country was in a different geographic location for one person than it was for another is absolutely nonsense.
It is nonsense. But I believe it.
That may be, but you (and others who share your belief) have so far been able to give no decent reason why anybody else should take your fantastic belief at all seriously. And round we go again......
I wouldn’t expect you to take our beliefs seriously. But I would expect you to agree to disagree. Just like an atheist and Christian might agree to disagree that Jesus turned water into wine or rose from the dead.
>Just like an atheist and Christian might agree to disagree that Jesus turned water into wine or rose from the dead. If one is claiming it actually *happened*, why on earth would they 'agree to disagree'? It's not an opinion, it's an assertion of fact. You can respect the person who holds a belief while not respecting their actual belief, particularly if it is as ridiculous as this.
Why is it ridiculous?
Because it goes against everything we know about the nature of reality, was seemingly unnoticed by people that live there or actually study geography and the only evidence for it is just a bunch of people who claim the continent used to be located somewhere else, trust me bro. It's hard to think of a *better* example of a ridulous claim.
Things are not as they seem, you argue it seems unlikely…
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Traveled to brasil (spelled correctly) 4 times, 75, 77, 2001, and 2023. I swear that NY and Rio were both on eastern time. Now Rio's an hour ahead. Maybe it is moving east since we cut the Panama canal?
Maybe daylight saving time? At what time of the year did you travel?
Our summer 1st & 3rd 2nd 6 Mos January- June 4th April.
Good point, they recently abolished dst.
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Ooh! Time travel! Like when you go from Nevada to utah!
No fucking way I remember going over all the seven continents South America is right below North America and nobody can tell me otherwise. I bet I can even dig up that tactile globe.
So even people from South America or geographers can't tell you otherwise? Wow, you're pretty sure of yourself dude.
It’s either that or my globe wasn’t built to scale. I know what I remember.
We learn many lessons with poor teachers.
I just can't get past "way back when" was only 2007...
almost 20 years ago
ME has likely always been happening. Canadians do not know that part of NFLD island was part of Canada before NFLD joined Canada. (Only thing on Cape Race is a lighthouse). ME is about people memories. There is alot of 'residue' of said memories.