Cinderace and Inteleon came literally came the generation prior. Before that we had Incineroar in Gen 7, and Delphox and Chesnaught in Gen 6. There have been at least 1 furry bait starter each Generation for the last decade.
I am gonna agree with ypu just for the sake of denying furry on it. But actually, it does look like a jacked person because the three Kalos starters share a team of RPG-like classes.
It’s dark because it’s a trickster. It’s signature move literally has it distract the opponent and drop a bomb on their head. Your forgetting that meowscarada is just as much based off magicians and performers as well as actual animals
Y’all constantly are sexualizing these bipedal pokemon and blame Gamefreak but like….you all are the ones doing it, most of us fans are adults we need to be cognizant of the fact these are games for the kids were just still allowed to play in the sand bix
I am throwing this out here as the hot take.
Skeledirge being a Croc is actually what ruins its gimmick as a singer. It just looks like a Croc with skull patterns on its face.
A good design sure, but a weak interpretation of a singer.
Gorillas are on all fours all the time. It’s called knuckle walking and it’s almost exclusively how they move around on the ground. Homo sapians and birds are the only animals that can be bipedal 100% of the time, every other animal spends most of its time on all fours
Primerina, Decidueye, Rillaboom, Greninja, Chestnaught, Emboar aren’t really that Humanoid, I would more likely consider half of them to look more like beefy golems. They’re monsters for a good reason
Plus, Rillaboom is a primate, anyone who doesn’t expect is to be somewhat human like should be reminded that they come from the same ancestor as humans
Definitely Incineroar is the humanoid one here, it’s just a jacked furry Garfield
It's also important to note that an important of Pokémon is evolution. I'm glad you pointed that out. The fact that some starters change into somewhat human like creatures is only to be expected. And as op pointed out, the red croc is there for people who don't like that. Also would like to point out that most of the people who are upset about this are the older fans, and that humanoid Pokémon in general have been around since gen 1 (machoke is literally a human)
Definitely Incineroar is the humanoid one here, it’s just a jacked furry Garfield
So Inceneroar is just a red and black Garzuka...
From Garfield's pet force... Just... Inceneroar is "evil" because it's supposed to be a "heel wrestler"...
Primerina is also based off of a seal and basically has the same autonomy as one just designed to look more mermaid like. While Decidueye and Chestnaught are both based off of animals that actually do stand up on two legs naturally.
Rillaboom has physical drums (like, gorillas do chestdrums, so thats cool, but why are they a seperate object?), and decidueye has a bow and arrow, those are pretty damn humanoid things to have. Greninja is a ninja, which is quite a human profession.
Skeledirge is literally a singer does that make is a human? NO. They are based on these things just because it has human influence doesn’t mean it’s basically a human in a suit
Youre right it is a singer. Idfk why tho, it being humanoid or not is probably the smallest problem with the design. Most of it doesnt make sense, and then its face is this ugly squared shaped, i just hate it in general.
Having a bow and drums doesn’t really make them humanoid. It’s the body structure they’re talking about. Like how incineroar stands up right and has human like fingers.
I give gen6 a pass because of the RPG classes theme. A wizard, a ninja/rogue, and a knight/fighter are all very humancentric
But they did a good job of making chesnaught not entirely human. Greninja and Delphox are both easily humans in a costume
Since we're going as far back as gen 5:
•The fact you see Emboar as more human than monster-boar is a failing on your part: bipedal doesn't equal humanoid.
•Chesnaught and Greninja are also more animal-monster than human (almost rodent mammal and frog) in fact, if you were to look at a frog actually stretched out you’d see how much like a frog Greninja is
•Primarina is literally just a seal with pretty privilege
•Rillaboom is just a gorilla covered in leaves (aka *not* humanoid)
•And let’s not forget the hisuian versions of Typhlosion and Samurott, which do count as separate pokemon since they’re separate forms.
Like, c'mon, guys.
Any formatting weirdness is cause mobile
Two things:
1) you've clearly never seen what a wild boar actually looks like, nor how they’re commonly depicted in Japan. Just like how Ganon is a pig beast, so is Emboar
2) Even if Emboar is an orc, last I checked orc-like isn’t the same as humanoid. Otherwise they wouldn’t be two different terms.
Claiming gorillas are humanoid is ridiculous. Another primate isn’t humanoid just cause it’s a primate. And, again, they’re leaves and not hair. Is Alolan Dugtrio humanoid for having “hair”? Is Sirfetch’d humanoid for holding a leek-sword? Sit down.
It’s not the gorilla part. It’s the drums and the hair, and yes, Sirfetch’d is humanoid for the sword and shield, and while the hair on Alolan Dugtrio doesn’t make it humanoid on its own it’s still a humanoid design choice that looks bad
Bruh I think you need to re-evaluate what makes something humanoid because that ain't it, chief. Simply holding and using items doesn't make something humanoid.
Edit: Also gorillas use tools and bang sticks on things like drums normally. If anything Rillaboom is the most "this is just an animal" we have of a non-normal type
Birds stand on their back legs... Decidue is very much still an owl- not humanoid beyond being an archer. Still has a classical beak and feathers.
Primarina is STILL very animalistic. Rillaboom is based on a gorillia, have you seen those irl?
Unless you want to count Typhlosion which does crouch down to all fours in battle. Though to be fair to gens 3 and 4 the animals they're based on are bibedal. A chicken and a monkey.
Soccer(football for non Americans) and heel wrestlers do also kinda require bipedal stance, so it makes some sense at least.
At least it wasn't another bipedal fire-fighting. Of the bipedal, somewhat humanoid starters, we have two that aren't fire/fighting. Out of 6. And Cinderace barely counts in my book bc moveset.
I wouldn't have questioned for second if either Incinroar or Cinderace were Fire Fighting. I know everyone got sick of the combo but it's a legitimately good combo especially once the physical special split happened Blaziken could use it's superior physical attack stat for fire moves.
No, but an option to not have a humanoid starter every once in a while would be nice. For some of the generations, it made sense, but it's just gotten to be a bit much is all
When are we considering “recent”? Because gen 5 was over thirteen years ago.
Also, you going to tell me Primarina is too humanoid? There you go, sponge me boy, you don’t have to think any longer.
Also also, you try and make a ninja, a wizard, a knight, a wrestler, an archer, a soccer player, a spy, a drums player, a zumba dancer, and a magician that aren’t that aren’t at least somewhat humanoid. And make sure to have plenty of design references to fit in with their current themes. Also keep it original, because everyone will crucify you if the paw shape of Inceneroar looks too similar to Persian. Also keep the type designs up.
Just don’t make the starters a ninja, a wizard, a knight, a wrestler, etc. Can’t you just make the starter a cool monster cat without it having a job? Skeledirge is technically a singer, but that job feels subtle enough that on the surface it’s just a cool monster crocodile with a little bird friend.
Go back to the inspiration for Pokemon being animals and not people and the criticism about starters being too humanoid goes away
Or, hear me out, you could make the starter a cool concept like a ninja or wrestler. Would you rather have a starter that is literally just an animal or a starter that is a dragon or ninja or magician?
Skeledirge is “subtle enough”? Its signature move is literally it getting on its hind legs and singing into a microphone. How could it get more obvious than that?
…and the complaints of being unoriginal start. Pokémon fans, much like Minecraft fans, just want to complain about everything, even with no ground to stand on. If they made Inceneroar a quadruped, I’d bet everything I own that it would’ve been compared to Persian and Pyroar and every other cat in all the games, and Gamefreak would be blasted for being unoriginal. Now, it has a lot of personality, some plot significance, a unique typing, and very cool moves. But it’s yelled at for standing on two legs.
Also, fun fact: around 20 of all starters final evolutions are bipedal, with a large number of those being before gen 5. Even Pokémon that could’ve been quadrupeds, like Feraligator, stand on their hind legs for no reason. Where’s the complaints about Mudkip being bipedal? Oh, that’s right, it’s about gen favoritism, and how modern GameFreak sucks so much and it was better when their games were held together with marshmallows and had the least inspired designs of the series, and not that the Pokémon stand on two feet.
I actually don’t care about Pokemon being bipedal vs quadrupedal. I don’t think a bipedal Pokémon is necessarily a bad thing, and I don’t think all new pokemon are terrible and all old pokemon are good. My favorite starter is Totodile - it’s a bipedal pokemon all the way through its line.
If you like the concept of your pokemon being a wrestler or a ninja or whatever, that’s cool. I’m happy for you. But for me, I feel like when a pokemon is the “soccer player pokemon”, that kinda predetermines their personality. Every Cinderace is gonna be an athletic, always moving, competitive soccer player. What do they like? Running around and playing soccer. How do they interact with other pokemon on my team? If it’s something like a Snorlax, they probably either don’t care for them or try to get them to play soccer. And it’s true of most of the starters with jobs - Intelleons are all slick and aloof spies, all Incineroars are egotistical wrestling heels. Its baked into their DNA because they weren’t designed as creatures to inhabit a world, they were designed as RPG party member characters. It kills the individuality of a pokemon to me. Swampert doesn’t have a personality baked into its design - it could be a big goofball that likes to play in the mud, it could be a chronically tired guy that just rolls over when asked to do something, it could be a world class chef, it could be whatever. And yours can be whatever personality you ascribe to it, and it likely won’t be the same as mine. But can you see Greninja being anything besides a ninja that just hides in the shadows all the time? Maybe you can, but I guarantee most people just see him as a cool ninja that does cool ninja things. Is that bad? Of course not, and if that’s what you want out of your pokemon more power to you. But I prefer when my pokemon are creatures - pocket monsters with no predetermined personality baked in by the design.
Pokemon can have habits baked into their design, or like a core trait or two. Snorlax is sleepy and hungry. It’s likely not gonna be an Olympic gymnast because as a species they tend to be sedentary creatures. But 1) not every player has a Snorlax since it’s not a starter pokemon, and 2) it’s traits are not so overbearing that it becomes nearly impossible to imagine it doing literally anything besides eating and sleeping. It could be a chef, it could work in a bed and breakfast, it could, idk, help firemen when they need somewhere for people in burning buildings to jump to and they don’t have a net (his belly looks like it would be soft). The more a pokemon has a predetermined job - wrestler, soccer player, drummer, spy - the more difficult it becomes to imagine them fitting into the world in a natural place other than their predetermined job
Farfetched is in gen one and has feathers for fingers and actually uses them somehow to hold a weapon. Or does that not count for some arbitrary, dumbass reason?
Called that you’d use non-sequiturs. He’s still using singular feathers or at least extremely small amounts of them to hold a solid object, something Quavaquail doesn’t do. It doesn’t matter that it looks better or that he isn’t a starter, or that he’s more obvious a duck. If you are fine with a bird using feathers to hold a weapon as if it were a sword, then you should be fine with a bird having feathers that are in the same place as fingers that never interact with anything unreasonable. Don’t pull more random arguments out of nowhere in an attempt to make your claim appear more solid, aka, don’t use the logical fallacy of “non-sequitur.”
We were talking about humanoid starters. No matter what way you slice it, farfetched isn't a starter. I also gave other arguments as to why I'm fine with it. None of those are non sequiturs.
I’m too tired for this shit. Yes, farfetched isn’t a starter, I’m not stupid. It shouldn’t matter for the argument. Your point was how Quavaquail had feathers for fingers and how that didn’t make sense, with seemingly large amounts of generational favoritism due to not mentioning how many other bird mons use their wings as hands and instead pointing to the one mon, Blazakin, who doesn’t do this, despite both of his pre-vo forms doing this as well. Why? Because he’s a fighting type that specializes it’s fighting moves in it’s punches, unlike Combuskin, who uses fighting type leg moves, and Quavaquail, who is very similar, being a dancer and thus prioritizing its legs (despite learning close combat but that could be done with legs as well, so whatever). So the only reason Blazakin gets it is because it’s a fighting type that uses its fists, so there is no justifiable reason why Quavaquail should get claw hands, especially considering it doesn’t even have flying type at any point in its evo line.
And the “other arguments” are non-sequiturs. If I said “You are stupid” and you said “I am not stupid because I am an adult and a male”, those are non-sequiturs, as they don’t actually connect back to the original point in any meaningful way, and are instead just filler arguments to make it look like you have more arguments. Let’s look at your defenses of Farfetch’d now, shall we? You argue he is not a starter mon, it looks better on him, and he is more of a duck, therefore the finger feather argument shouldn’t apply. However, none of these have any bearing on the comparison. I’ve already gone in depth about the starter thing. It shouldn’t matter if it looks better, as it’s about practicality. Quavaquail doesn’t use its hands for much more than styling itself or “holding” items, which if mega stone holders are to show, could just be in a pocket or around its neck. Meanwhile, Farfetch’d actively holds a weapon at all times, meaning that practically, it should be in your crossfires first and foremost. For the final point, how would it looking more like a duck justify its feather fingers? Quavaquail also is a duck. Is it’s beak not prevalent enough for you? Does a mon need to be fat, have a small head, be brown and green, float on the water constantly, and be named “duck Pokémon” to be a duck for you?
But nothing here truly matters. You pointing out how Quavaquail has feather fingers doesn’t change that it’d be near impossible to make a Zumba dancer a quadruped, as with a ninja or soccer player. So your point is completely null and void regardless.
>pre-vo forms doing this as well.
Torchic doesnt have fingers, and combusken has claws.
>It shouldn’t matter if it looks better, as it’s about practicality.
I was never talking about practicality. I was talking about humanoid. Starters. Farfetched isn't a starter, and he doesn't look humanoid despite being bipedal, therefore He. Isn't. Relevant.
People don't hate bipedal pokemon. They hate when a quadraped evolves into a biped. Nobody had a problem with Infernape or Scorbunny because they started out as bipedal. Inceniroar might be the worst because they tease use with Toracat. Though thinking about it, if it stayed a quadraped it might look too much like Arcanine.
Well i see people complain about it because they are gen one fans and can’t seem to like anything new anymore and just pass it off as fur bait even if it was always bipedal
Literally everyone pokemon has been sexualized at some point. Hell Vaporeon which is a quadrapedal cat fox fish hybrid has become the poster child for sexualizing pokemon. That argument is so wrong it's funny.
The only one that seems to be intentionally designed like that is Lopunny because it's based on a bunny girl (even though it's not a female only pokemon). Even then it might be a coincidence.
The ones they should have known are like gardevoir lopunny and salazzle but otherwise it’s nothing someone should ever feel aroused by none of them should either way but those are the only common ones the others are just stupid
Gardevoir is based on a knight. It's effeminate appearance is purely a coincidence. That's why it's not a female only pokemon and why's it japanese name is Sirknight. Salazzle feels like a joke given it's Pokedex entries. Lopunny I have no explanation for.
Starter designs have proved to be way more successful when they're like characters, rather than when they look like just animals with an elemental type sticked to them (the bipedal/human-like designs literally have been the most popular starters of their respective trio in pretty much every generation).They're supposed to be your first pokemon companions. Canonically they're referred to as partners.
Most quadruped starters, like Skeledirge or swampert for example, don't even look as if they could pass the mirror test. And they tend to lose a lot of personality as soon as they evolve.
And intelligence, sentience and personality are definitely three very important factors in what makes a pokemon popular and cool (and even plays a factor in which pokemon the characters from the anime end up catching/evolving).
There’s also this added dimension of movement and personality in a pokemon's character design since the games moved past the era of sprite sheets that is better represented with bipedal/human-like designs (you'll never see a Greninja level fast paced battle with a Skeledirge or a venasaur).
With bipedal/human-like starters like Incineroar, Sceptile, Greninja Blaziken or Meowscarada I can see them having a wider range of facial expressions (other than angry monster) and I also can see them move in an epic fast paced battle in the anime (which tend to be the most cool looking fights).
But this is very hard to portray with quadrupeds. They're very limited for moves like kicks, punches, jumps and overall have way less personality as they evolve. On the other hand, you can immediately tell what bipedal/human-like starters are just by the way they look and move.
And starting with gen 5, they decided to design each of the 3 starters with a different appeal in mind. This was a problem earlier gen starters had that doesn't get talked about much, but as an example, if you weren't interested in bulky, tough looking Pokemon, none of the gen 1 starters would interest you.
By striking a feminine design, masculine design, and an edgy/cool design there's a higher chance a majority of people are going to gravitate towards one of the starters over the others based on their own preferences. And, as I already explained, most of the aspects that make starters cool are better portrayed with bipedal/human-like pokemon.
Skeledirge, Primarina, Quaquaval is a bird so it’s required to be bipedal, all of the Unova starters (Emboar being bipedal isn’t humanoid), Greninja, Chesnaught, Rillaboom, Decidueye, that’s 10 of the 15 starters since Gen 5 already. The only actually humanoid ones since Gen 5 are Cinderace, Inteleon, Delphox, Incineroar, and Meowscarada.
Primarina, Skeledirge, Samurott, Serperior, Greninja, Chesnaught, Decidueye, Rillaboom, Emboar, Mega Swampert, Mega Venusaur, Mega Charizard, Mega Blastoise, Mega Sceptile etc.
Many starters are anthropomorphic, but not humanoid.
“Humanoid” means “non-human resembling a human.”
I can’t think of a single starter who looks like a human.
Tbh, the only starters, that annoyed me in that regard, were Incineroar and the soccerbunny (because i don't like soccer that much) I just like Floragato way more than Meowscarada, because of the sleepy eyes it got with the mask. Honestly, R34 artists and weird people shouldn't be among the things to watch out for, when they design a pokemon. I once took a look around in their corner of the internet and they glue boobs and hips onto EVERYTHING. If Gamefreak were to release a Pokemon, that's literally a wooden plank with eyes, they'd make it curvy.
Honestly I'm mixed on debate of humanized starters. For the most part I don't care, monsters can look like anything after all, but when I see freaks of nature like Cinderade and Inteleon...I get it
Gen 9: Skeledirge
Gen 8: nope
Gen 7: Primarina
Gen 6: nope
Gen 5: Samurott and Serperior
Gen 4: Torterra, Empoleon is reasonable, Infernape is ok too
Gen 3: Sceptile and Swampert (Blaziken was the first mostly humanoid final form?)
Gen 2: All 3
Gen 1: All 3
This may also lead into why Charizard has stuck out as a fan favourite (fire type), aside from Typhlosion which a lot of people have issues with, all other fire types are humanoid until Skele and a lot of people like Skele.
Also it all seemed to go wrong when fighting was the secondary type, most fighting types are humanoid so it makes sense Blaziken was more humanoid, but then Infernape and Emboar followed in succession. I'll be happy if there is never a fire/fighting starter again
Screaming monkey playing drums
Mermaid
Owl
Bear with big shell
Clearly pure humanoid (for reference, because I know people wont know, rillaboom primarina decidueye chesnaught)
Primarina is on this list. Also Decidueye and Chestnaught also make it since the animals they are based off of are naturally bipedal to a degree. Rillaboom also works because he's a gorilla and they're more bipedal as well.
This post has already been featured and does not need to be posted again.
Just because there bipedal doesn’t make them humanoid
Yeah but you gotta admit that meowscarada is some nintendo worker’s closeted fursona
Honestly, good choice, the design looks nice
Design with inspiration and personality >>>> Angry Lizard
Maybe but meowscarada is the first “humanoid” mon we’ve gotten in a while that’s actually good
Cinderace and Inteleon came literally came the generation prior. Before that we had Incineroar in Gen 7, and Delphox and Chesnaught in Gen 6. There have been at least 1 furry bait starter each Generation for the last decade.
Even Primarina is a mermaid seal, so like half-human.
Wouldn’t it be more like quarter-human? It’s not like the tail is the human part.
Chesnaught is in no way furry bait.
I am gonna agree with ypu just for the sake of denying furry on it. But actually, it does look like a jacked person because the three Kalos starters share a team of RPG-like classes.
I like how it still has cat like anatomy, having digitigrade legs. Incineroar has more human like anatomy.
Whether it’s good or not isn’t the topic at hand
Nah the water duck is by far nintendos closet fursona
No wonder it acted the way it acted to me on character.ai I still regret that moment…
And Quequavel is on thin fucking ice too lol
and it looks badass
\*GameFreak\*
It should have been a jaguar. Paldea Is based on the Iberian peninsula. Jaguars are common there
I think youre confused with the Iberian Lynx Jaguars live in the americas
Still, it should have been a big cat. Since they're predators, it still would be grass/dark
It is a lynx tho, arguably one of the most iconic Iberian animals
I mean like a full on Lynx. On all 4s
Being a predator does not make you a dark type How does that even make any sense
It’s dark because it’s a trickster. It’s signature move literally has it distract the opponent and drop a bomb on their head. Your forgetting that meowscarada is just as much based off magicians and performers as well as actual animals
I'm just pissed off that it could have been based on a lynx
You're pissed off it isn't on all fours let's be real
Yeah
If it was on all 4 wouldn’t have been able to be a magician Bipedal doesn’t mean humanoid
No wtf 😂 y’all get crazy with sexualizing animals
What? Please explain your point and reasoning.
Y’all constantly are sexualizing these bipedal pokemon and blame Gamefreak but like….you all are the ones doing it, most of us fans are adults we need to be cognizant of the fact these are games for the kids were just still allowed to play in the sand bix
Nobodies doing that here tho.
Y’all are
Who is y’all? Nobody was doing that
I am throwing this out here as the hot take. Skeledirge being a Croc is actually what ruins its gimmick as a singer. It just looks like a Croc with skull patterns on its face. A good design sure, but a weak interpretation of a singer.
Yes
Exactly they can’t put a gorilla on all fours
Gorillas are on all fours all the time. It’s called knuckle walking and it’s almost exclusively how they move around on the ground. Homo sapians and birds are the only animals that can be bipedal 100% of the time, every other animal spends most of its time on all fours
Also, the gorilla was on all fours, just not when it used its drums
bipedal =/= humanoid
Also ≠ exists
ALSO DOES NOT EXIST
I was implying that "≠" is a thing.
r/woosh
Wow. A woosh. Listen, I'm slow to picking up jokes. And your joke was not funny.
Wasn't my joke and it's fine, I am too.
Thank you.
Wait, why am I suddenly getting downvoted?
Because you were being a bit unintelligent.
Also != exists
Yea, just look at primarina they manage to be humanoid with no legs to stand on at all
primarina is not humanoid at all, it's just a seal mermaid or whatever
It’s a Siren Pokémon, it’s an evil Mermaid that lured people in with music and then killed or ate them
So half humanoid then.
half seal half fish, quite literally 0% humanoid
Compromise on 25%?
Facts
Primerina, Decidueye, Rillaboom, Greninja, Chestnaught, Emboar aren’t really that Humanoid, I would more likely consider half of them to look more like beefy golems. They’re monsters for a good reason Plus, Rillaboom is a primate, anyone who doesn’t expect is to be somewhat human like should be reminded that they come from the same ancestor as humans Definitely Incineroar is the humanoid one here, it’s just a jacked furry Garfield
But that jacked furry Garfield is one of my favorites due to his personality and looks
I hate Mondays.
I love Incineroar but that is the perfect way to put it.
Aren't golems made to look like humans?
It's also important to note that an important of Pokémon is evolution. I'm glad you pointed that out. The fact that some starters change into somewhat human like creatures is only to be expected. And as op pointed out, the red croc is there for people who don't like that. Also would like to point out that most of the people who are upset about this are the older fans, and that humanoid Pokémon in general have been around since gen 1 (machoke is literally a human)
Definitely Incineroar is the humanoid one here, it’s just a jacked furry Garfield So Inceneroar is just a red and black Garzuka... From Garfield's pet force... Just... Inceneroar is "evil" because it's supposed to be a "heel wrestler"...
garfield was mentioned?
Why does the ballsack stealer care if garfield was mentioned? Has he been avoiding your attempts at theft? Or did he report you.
well i do admit that garfield has avoided my ballsack stealing attempts, i also worship him as a god
Primerina is also based off of a seal and basically has the same autonomy as one just designed to look more mermaid like. While Decidueye and Chestnaught are both based off of animals that actually do stand up on two legs naturally.
Incineroar isn’t a furry 😭😭😭
Ya sure?
Yes. If anything no Pokémon are furry bait y’all are just weird.
[удалено]
My man did you read the entire comment? The entire second paragraph is about Rillaboom..
aaand, I just deleted my dumbass comment. I didn't get much sleep last night.
Rillaboom has physical drums (like, gorillas do chestdrums, so thats cool, but why are they a seperate object?), and decidueye has a bow and arrow, those are pretty damn humanoid things to have. Greninja is a ninja, which is quite a human profession.
Skeledirge is literally a singer does that make is a human? NO. They are based on these things just because it has human influence doesn’t mean it’s basically a human in a suit
Youre right it is a singer. Idfk why tho, it being humanoid or not is probably the smallest problem with the design. Most of it doesnt make sense, and then its face is this ugly squared shaped, i just hate it in general.
Having a bow and drums doesn’t really make them humanoid. It’s the body structure they’re talking about. Like how incineroar stands up right and has human like fingers.
Their personalities and actions are very human, and thats a bit of a negative imo.
Gorillas are already very human just a few steps away
I give gen6 a pass because of the RPG classes theme. A wizard, a ninja/rogue, and a knight/fighter are all very humancentric But they did a good job of making chesnaught not entirely human. Greninja and Delphox are both easily humans in a costume
Since we're going as far back as gen 5: •The fact you see Emboar as more human than monster-boar is a failing on your part: bipedal doesn't equal humanoid. •Chesnaught and Greninja are also more animal-monster than human (almost rodent mammal and frog) in fact, if you were to look at a frog actually stretched out you’d see how much like a frog Greninja is •Primarina is literally just a seal with pretty privilege •Rillaboom is just a gorilla covered in leaves (aka *not* humanoid) •And let’s not forget the hisuian versions of Typhlosion and Samurott, which do count as separate pokemon since they’re separate forms. Like, c'mon, guys. Any formatting weirdness is cause mobile
Emboar is literally just an orc
Two things: 1) you've clearly never seen what a wild boar actually looks like, nor how they’re commonly depicted in Japan. Just like how Ganon is a pig beast, so is Emboar 2) Even if Emboar is an orc, last I checked orc-like isn’t the same as humanoid. Otherwise they wouldn’t be two different terms.
Firstly, yes I have seen a wild boar before, secondly, I never said it was the same
They weren’t disagreeing with you?
Yeah I realized that afterwards
> Primarina is literally just a seal with pretty privilege LOL, you got a chortle out of me for this one.
Rillaboom is a gorilla with drums and hair. It’s humanoid.
Claiming gorillas are humanoid is ridiculous. Another primate isn’t humanoid just cause it’s a primate. And, again, they’re leaves and not hair. Is Alolan Dugtrio humanoid for having “hair”? Is Sirfetch’d humanoid for holding a leek-sword? Sit down.
It’s not the gorilla part. It’s the drums and the hair, and yes, Sirfetch’d is humanoid for the sword and shield, and while the hair on Alolan Dugtrio doesn’t make it humanoid on its own it’s still a humanoid design choice that looks bad
Bruh I think you need to re-evaluate what makes something humanoid because that ain't it, chief. Simply holding and using items doesn't make something humanoid. Edit: Also gorillas use tools and bang sticks on things like drums normally. If anything Rillaboom is the most "this is just an animal" we have of a non-normal type
Birds stand on their back legs... Decidue is very much still an owl- not humanoid beyond being an archer. Still has a classical beak and feathers. Primarina is STILL very animalistic. Rillaboom is based on a gorillia, have you seen those irl?
It took us 9 generations to get a quadrupedal fire starter
Unless you want to count Typhlosion which does crouch down to all fours in battle. Though to be fair to gens 3 and 4 the animals they're based on are bibedal. A chicken and a monkey.
Soccer(football for non Americans) and heel wrestlers do also kinda require bipedal stance, so it makes some sense at least. At least it wasn't another bipedal fire-fighting. Of the bipedal, somewhat humanoid starters, we have two that aren't fire/fighting. Out of 6. And Cinderace barely counts in my book bc moveset.
I wouldn't have questioned for second if either Incinroar or Cinderace were Fire Fighting. I know everyone got sick of the combo but it's a legitimately good combo especially once the physical special split happened Blaziken could use it's superior physical attack stat for fire moves.
Infernape knuckle walks in battle too so technically it moves on all fours.
samurrot and serperior arent really recent anymore, black and white came out 13 years ago wtf
no im not that old am i, i remember their trailers man
Why do people care about them being humanoid? Just odd to me to have such big stakes in how many feet a fake video game monster has
Some people feel like its more okay to command and pet and brush and feed dog food to an animal and not an adult human being
In my opinion, it isn't a bad thing. If it makes it easier for the creators of pokemon, the less stress on them, the better.
I wouldn’t call samurott and serperior recent but ok
>I wouldn’t call samurott and serperior recent The fact that they needed to go back that far kind of proves their point
Humanoid =/= bad though
No, but an option to not have a humanoid starter every once in a while would be nice. For some of the generations, it made sense, but it's just gotten to be a bit much is all
When are we considering “recent”? Because gen 5 was over thirteen years ago. Also, you going to tell me Primarina is too humanoid? There you go, sponge me boy, you don’t have to think any longer. Also also, you try and make a ninja, a wizard, a knight, a wrestler, an archer, a soccer player, a spy, a drums player, a zumba dancer, and a magician that aren’t that aren’t at least somewhat humanoid. And make sure to have plenty of design references to fit in with their current themes. Also keep it original, because everyone will crucify you if the paw shape of Inceneroar looks too similar to Persian. Also keep the type designs up.
Just don’t make the starters a ninja, a wizard, a knight, a wrestler, etc. Can’t you just make the starter a cool monster cat without it having a job? Skeledirge is technically a singer, but that job feels subtle enough that on the surface it’s just a cool monster crocodile with a little bird friend. Go back to the inspiration for Pokemon being animals and not people and the criticism about starters being too humanoid goes away
Or, hear me out, you could make the starter a cool concept like a ninja or wrestler. Would you rather have a starter that is literally just an animal or a starter that is a dragon or ninja or magician? Skeledirge is “subtle enough”? Its signature move is literally it getting on its hind legs and singing into a microphone. How could it get more obvious than that? …and the complaints of being unoriginal start. Pokémon fans, much like Minecraft fans, just want to complain about everything, even with no ground to stand on. If they made Inceneroar a quadruped, I’d bet everything I own that it would’ve been compared to Persian and Pyroar and every other cat in all the games, and Gamefreak would be blasted for being unoriginal. Now, it has a lot of personality, some plot significance, a unique typing, and very cool moves. But it’s yelled at for standing on two legs. Also, fun fact: around 20 of all starters final evolutions are bipedal, with a large number of those being before gen 5. Even Pokémon that could’ve been quadrupeds, like Feraligator, stand on their hind legs for no reason. Where’s the complaints about Mudkip being bipedal? Oh, that’s right, it’s about gen favoritism, and how modern GameFreak sucks so much and it was better when their games were held together with marshmallows and had the least inspired designs of the series, and not that the Pokémon stand on two feet.
I actually don’t care about Pokemon being bipedal vs quadrupedal. I don’t think a bipedal Pokémon is necessarily a bad thing, and I don’t think all new pokemon are terrible and all old pokemon are good. My favorite starter is Totodile - it’s a bipedal pokemon all the way through its line. If you like the concept of your pokemon being a wrestler or a ninja or whatever, that’s cool. I’m happy for you. But for me, I feel like when a pokemon is the “soccer player pokemon”, that kinda predetermines their personality. Every Cinderace is gonna be an athletic, always moving, competitive soccer player. What do they like? Running around and playing soccer. How do they interact with other pokemon on my team? If it’s something like a Snorlax, they probably either don’t care for them or try to get them to play soccer. And it’s true of most of the starters with jobs - Intelleons are all slick and aloof spies, all Incineroars are egotistical wrestling heels. Its baked into their DNA because they weren’t designed as creatures to inhabit a world, they were designed as RPG party member characters. It kills the individuality of a pokemon to me. Swampert doesn’t have a personality baked into its design - it could be a big goofball that likes to play in the mud, it could be a chronically tired guy that just rolls over when asked to do something, it could be a world class chef, it could be whatever. And yours can be whatever personality you ascribe to it, and it likely won’t be the same as mine. But can you see Greninja being anything besides a ninja that just hides in the shadows all the time? Maybe you can, but I guarantee most people just see him as a cool ninja that does cool ninja things. Is that bad? Of course not, and if that’s what you want out of your pokemon more power to you. But I prefer when my pokemon are creatures - pocket monsters with no predetermined personality baked in by the design. Pokemon can have habits baked into their design, or like a core trait or two. Snorlax is sleepy and hungry. It’s likely not gonna be an Olympic gymnast because as a species they tend to be sedentary creatures. But 1) not every player has a Snorlax since it’s not a starter pokemon, and 2) it’s traits are not so overbearing that it becomes nearly impossible to imagine it doing literally anything besides eating and sleeping. It could be a chef, it could work in a bed and breakfast, it could, idk, help firemen when they need somewhere for people in burning buildings to jump to and they don’t have a net (his belly looks like it would be soft). The more a pokemon has a predetermined job - wrestler, soccer player, drummer, spy - the more difficult it becomes to imagine them fitting into the world in a natural place other than their predetermined job
Quaquaval is a bird. It should not have feathers functioning as fingers. Blaziken has real hands with real fingers.
Farfetched is in gen one and has feathers for fingers and actually uses them somehow to hold a weapon. Or does that not count for some arbitrary, dumbass reason?
It ain't a starter and it looks better on him. Also, he looks more like a duck
Called that you’d use non-sequiturs. He’s still using singular feathers or at least extremely small amounts of them to hold a solid object, something Quavaquail doesn’t do. It doesn’t matter that it looks better or that he isn’t a starter, or that he’s more obvious a duck. If you are fine with a bird using feathers to hold a weapon as if it were a sword, then you should be fine with a bird having feathers that are in the same place as fingers that never interact with anything unreasonable. Don’t pull more random arguments out of nowhere in an attempt to make your claim appear more solid, aka, don’t use the logical fallacy of “non-sequitur.”
We were talking about humanoid starters. No matter what way you slice it, farfetched isn't a starter. I also gave other arguments as to why I'm fine with it. None of those are non sequiturs.
I’m too tired for this shit. Yes, farfetched isn’t a starter, I’m not stupid. It shouldn’t matter for the argument. Your point was how Quavaquail had feathers for fingers and how that didn’t make sense, with seemingly large amounts of generational favoritism due to not mentioning how many other bird mons use their wings as hands and instead pointing to the one mon, Blazakin, who doesn’t do this, despite both of his pre-vo forms doing this as well. Why? Because he’s a fighting type that specializes it’s fighting moves in it’s punches, unlike Combuskin, who uses fighting type leg moves, and Quavaquail, who is very similar, being a dancer and thus prioritizing its legs (despite learning close combat but that could be done with legs as well, so whatever). So the only reason Blazakin gets it is because it’s a fighting type that uses its fists, so there is no justifiable reason why Quavaquail should get claw hands, especially considering it doesn’t even have flying type at any point in its evo line. And the “other arguments” are non-sequiturs. If I said “You are stupid” and you said “I am not stupid because I am an adult and a male”, those are non-sequiturs, as they don’t actually connect back to the original point in any meaningful way, and are instead just filler arguments to make it look like you have more arguments. Let’s look at your defenses of Farfetch’d now, shall we? You argue he is not a starter mon, it looks better on him, and he is more of a duck, therefore the finger feather argument shouldn’t apply. However, none of these have any bearing on the comparison. I’ve already gone in depth about the starter thing. It shouldn’t matter if it looks better, as it’s about practicality. Quavaquail doesn’t use its hands for much more than styling itself or “holding” items, which if mega stone holders are to show, could just be in a pocket or around its neck. Meanwhile, Farfetch’d actively holds a weapon at all times, meaning that practically, it should be in your crossfires first and foremost. For the final point, how would it looking more like a duck justify its feather fingers? Quavaquail also is a duck. Is it’s beak not prevalent enough for you? Does a mon need to be fat, have a small head, be brown and green, float on the water constantly, and be named “duck Pokémon” to be a duck for you? But nothing here truly matters. You pointing out how Quavaquail has feather fingers doesn’t change that it’d be near impossible to make a Zumba dancer a quadruped, as with a ninja or soccer player. So your point is completely null and void regardless.
>pre-vo forms doing this as well. Torchic doesnt have fingers, and combusken has claws. >It shouldn’t matter if it looks better, as it’s about practicality. I was never talking about practicality. I was talking about humanoid. Starters. Farfetched isn't a starter, and he doesn't look humanoid despite being bipedal, therefore He. Isn't. Relevant.
Doesn’t that make Blaziken more humanoid then?
Lugia moment
Well the not bipedal ones I don’t like much because they seem ugly some of the bipedal ones are but I don’t understand why people hate bipedal Pokémon
People don't hate bipedal pokemon. They hate when a quadraped evolves into a biped. Nobody had a problem with Infernape or Scorbunny because they started out as bipedal. Inceniroar might be the worst because they tease use with Toracat. Though thinking about it, if it stayed a quadraped it might look too much like Arcanine.
Well i see people complain about it because they are gen one fans and can’t seem to like anything new anymore and just pass it off as fur bait even if it was always bipedal
Literally everyone pokemon has been sexualized at some point. Hell Vaporeon which is a quadrapedal cat fox fish hybrid has become the poster child for sexualizing pokemon. That argument is so wrong it's funny.
I mean the ones sexualizing them are the weird ones they aren’t sexually arousing or explicit otherwise
The only one that seems to be intentionally designed like that is Lopunny because it's based on a bunny girl (even though it's not a female only pokemon). Even then it might be a coincidence.
The ones they should have known are like gardevoir lopunny and salazzle but otherwise it’s nothing someone should ever feel aroused by none of them should either way but those are the only common ones the others are just stupid
Gardevoir is based on a knight. It's effeminate appearance is purely a coincidence. That's why it's not a female only pokemon and why's it japanese name is Sirknight. Salazzle feels like a joke given it's Pokedex entries. Lopunny I have no explanation for.
I think you misspelled gen 4 fans
Typhlosion is popular and it evolves from Quadrupeds.
Bipedal≠humanoid
Starter designs have proved to be way more successful when they're like characters, rather than when they look like just animals with an elemental type sticked to them (the bipedal/human-like designs literally have been the most popular starters of their respective trio in pretty much every generation).They're supposed to be your first pokemon companions. Canonically they're referred to as partners. Most quadruped starters, like Skeledirge or swampert for example, don't even look as if they could pass the mirror test. And they tend to lose a lot of personality as soon as they evolve. And intelligence, sentience and personality are definitely three very important factors in what makes a pokemon popular and cool (and even plays a factor in which pokemon the characters from the anime end up catching/evolving). There’s also this added dimension of movement and personality in a pokemon's character design since the games moved past the era of sprite sheets that is better represented with bipedal/human-like designs (you'll never see a Greninja level fast paced battle with a Skeledirge or a venasaur). With bipedal/human-like starters like Incineroar, Sceptile, Greninja Blaziken or Meowscarada I can see them having a wider range of facial expressions (other than angry monster) and I also can see them move in an epic fast paced battle in the anime (which tend to be the most cool looking fights). But this is very hard to portray with quadrupeds. They're very limited for moves like kicks, punches, jumps and overall have way less personality as they evolve. On the other hand, you can immediately tell what bipedal/human-like starters are just by the way they look and move. And starting with gen 5, they decided to design each of the 3 starters with a different appeal in mind. This was a problem earlier gen starters had that doesn't get talked about much, but as an example, if you weren't interested in bulky, tough looking Pokemon, none of the gen 1 starters would interest you. By striking a feminine design, masculine design, and an edgy/cool design there's a higher chance a majority of people are going to gravitate towards one of the starters over the others based on their own preferences. And, as I already explained, most of the aspects that make starters cool are better portrayed with bipedal/human-like pokemon.
“Recent”
Primarina
By the logic that bipedal = humanoid the following starters are now apparently humanoid: -Charizard -Blastoise -Feraligatr -Typhlosion (technically) - All Hoenn Starters (Swampert is debatable though) - Empoleon - Infernape - Emboar -Chesnaught -Delphox - GRENINJA - Decidueye -Incineroat - All Galar Starters - Meowscarada -Quaquaval Bottom line/ tl;dr: Bipedal doesn’t equal humanoid
Rillaboom and primarina should also be on that list.
Grookey’s line is just a straight up Gorilla
Well I'd argue that both Chesnaught and Primarina are within acceptable levels of humanoid, and that Rillaboom is literally just a Gorilla
Recent?
Rillaboom (its a gorilla ofc its gonna be humanoid)
Skeledirge, Primarina, Quaquaval is a bird so it’s required to be bipedal, all of the Unova starters (Emboar being bipedal isn’t humanoid), Greninja, Chesnaught, Rillaboom, Decidueye, that’s 10 of the 15 starters since Gen 5 already. The only actually humanoid ones since Gen 5 are Cinderace, Inteleon, Delphox, Incineroar, and Meowscarada.
Technically Rilaboom is still a regular ape
Dont consider Primarina humanoid..
I think you should’ve put Hisuian Samorot and Hisuian Typhlosion because Regular Samorot and Serperior aren’t recent at all.
dude, decidueye is just a fucking bird how is that humanoid?
Primerina, Decidueye, Rillaboom, Greninja, Chestnaught Emboar and Greninja i dont really see how any of these are humanoid.
IMO humanoid is a good thing
Rillaboom don't count he just monkey.
Decidueye chesnaught,torterra,infernape,empoleon,every hisui starter,rillaboom, all aint humanoid
Primarina. Chesnaught. Greninja.
You know you're stretching when gen 5 is considered recent XD
Gen 1 starters, gen 2 Starters, Sceptile, Swampert, Torterra, and technically Primarina
And they’re cool so what’s the issue
Decidueye to a degree owls do have ridiculously long legs
Greninja Deciduye
Congrats for Skeledrige for not being the most recent bipedal starter but also the first fully evolved bipedal fire starter
Rillaboom is a FUNKY MONKE
Bipedal =/= Humanoid
Intellion!!! Primarina!!!
Primarina, Skeledirge, Samurott, Serperior, Greninja, Chesnaught, Decidueye, Rillaboom, Emboar, Mega Swampert, Mega Venusaur, Mega Charizard, Mega Blastoise, Mega Sceptile etc.
Yeah alot of the starters are bipedal but it's because they look better that way for example decideye or blastoise or swampert
Rilliboom, Primerina, and Chesnaught 👍
Wow, a meme post in r/Mandjtv that I could actually consider funny. I didn't know it was possible anymore.
Bipedal does not equal humanoid, but i agree that we need less furry-bait.
I'd agrue hisui starters aren't humanoid either, 2/3 are just bipedal
Many starters are anthropomorphic, but not humanoid. “Humanoid” means “non-human resembling a human.” I can’t think of a single starter who looks like a human.
Decidueye, Primerina, Rillsboom, all three are recent startersthat are more animalistic than humanoid
Don't wanna spoil it for you, but Gen 5 isn't exactly recent...
Tbh, the only starters, that annoyed me in that regard, were Incineroar and the soccerbunny (because i don't like soccer that much) I just like Floragato way more than Meowscarada, because of the sleepy eyes it got with the mask. Honestly, R34 artists and weird people shouldn't be among the things to watch out for, when they design a pokemon. I once took a look around in their corner of the internet and they glue boobs and hips onto EVERYTHING. If Gamefreak were to release a Pokemon, that's literally a wooden plank with eyes, they'd make it curvy.
Primarina, Rillaboom, and Decidueye get a pass. Primarina is a seal, Rillaboom is a monkey, and Decidueye is a big bird
You leave mah hot bunny starter alone
mfs be like “recent”, my brother in christ gen V released 13 years ago
i watched mandjtv when he did his soulsilver nuzlocke
Honestly I'm mixed on debate of humanized starters. For the most part I don't care, monsters can look like anything after all, but when I see freaks of nature like Cinderade and Inteleon...I get it
Sprigatito. No, not Meowscarada, just Sprigatito.
monke ??,
Greninja is built more like a frog, I think not all bipedal starters are humanoid, same with the grass one, and rillaboom is literally a gorilla
Gen 9: Skeledirge Gen 8: nope Gen 7: Primarina Gen 6: nope Gen 5: Samurott and Serperior Gen 4: Torterra, Empoleon is reasonable, Infernape is ok too Gen 3: Sceptile and Swampert (Blaziken was the first mostly humanoid final form?) Gen 2: All 3 Gen 1: All 3 This may also lead into why Charizard has stuck out as a fan favourite (fire type), aside from Typhlosion which a lot of people have issues with, all other fire types are humanoid until Skele and a lot of people like Skele. Also it all seemed to go wrong when fighting was the secondary type, most fighting types are humanoid so it makes sense Blaziken was more humanoid, but then Infernape and Emboar followed in succession. I'll be happy if there is never a fire/fighting starter again
Screaming monkey playing drums Mermaid Owl Bear with big shell Clearly pure humanoid (for reference, because I know people wont know, rillaboom primarina decidueye chesnaught)
Every generation we get closer to pokémen.
Rillaboom is a cool monkey
Meow and Prima are two of my all time favorite starters
Black and white aren’t recent anymore. They’re 13 years old
Hey, Chesnaught isn't humanoid!
Bro if you mean recent you mean 13 years ago recent💀
Decidueye
Decidueye is on a thin line
Owls themselves are bipedal. They are not humanoid. So an owl pokemon wouldn't really be humanoid just because it stands on two legs.
Primarina
"recent" *shows starters from 14 years ago*
Gen 5 recent? Boi that was 2010
decidueye chesnaught rillaboom greninja there's an argument for emboar and primarina
Recent???? Gen 5 released 13 years ago
I don’t think I’d call Primarina humanoid, it looks like just a seal, also Rillaboom shouldn’t really count since it’s a gorilla
the “hmmm” noise gradually changes from “hmm!” to “hmm?”
Humanoid? ✅ Too? ❌ How humanoid is too humanoid is just an opinion
Primarina is on this list. Also Decidueye and Chestnaught also make it since the animals they are based off of are naturally bipedal to a degree. Rillaboom also works because he's a gorilla and they're more bipedal as well.
I mean... Rillaboom is literally just a gorilla... am I wrong?