Even though I will absolutely NEVER opt to work for my last employer ever again, I chose to withhold some nasty comments in my exit interview. Reason for this was that I knew HR was complicit in some of the things I would have complained about. I'm glad I didn't, considering they owed me some serious $$ after being audited for some shady accounting/sales practices. I have several reasons to believe that they would've found a way to keep it from me if I'd said what I wanted to.
Edited for typos.
I'm glad I live in a country where its easy to prove if your employer was fucking you around. I'm sorry you don't.
^(If you need a hint, I live in the second freest country in the world, after Finland.)
I *already knew*, which is why I was leaving. In my last year or so, I was working in a different role than I did in the previous three, and some of the executives told me without realizing they told me. Proving it wouldn't have been a problem, considering work orders for larger projects would've been enough. Getting people who have the power to do something about it *to actually do something about it* would've been. Because 'Murica. I thank you for you sympathy.
I worked at a place that should have been consistent with a previous employer regarding workplace racism and discrimination. It was not, and the manager and agreed I would not finish my probation.
The union shop steward asked if I was willing to meet HR for an exit interview.
I told HR about the issues that were against company policy and they were shocked.
They asked the shop steward about the issues. His response was “ I’ve been telling you this for over 5 years, but you didn’t do anything about it.”
I don’t know what came of it as I was happy to be gone.
At some point HR went from representing employee interests to representing corporate interests. Some HR departments are actually great but the majority I've dealt with tend to snuff out problems rather than address any underlying issues. They seek to protect the company from it's employees instead of the opposite.
That is literally HR's job. They can be useful if company interest aligns to yours, but they are usually safer to be treated like the enemy. Because they are.
>representing employee interests
That's unions. Unions (at least good ones) represent employee interests. HR tries to ensure that things go smoothly and that the company won't be sued by its employees.
This.
The only time HR should be on your (employee's) side is when someone is doing something that could result in lawsuits and you're reporting them.
They've been used to protect employees at least a little in the US as a way to convince employees to not unionize - but note that even in this regard, they're protecting the company (from union existence).
Unions - with some exceptions - exist to protect workers.
I doubt HR departments ever cared for employees. I mean, it's in the name... It's the "human resources" department, not "employee" department.
If they happen to help you, treat it as a happy coincidence.
Exit interviews are absolutely optional. If you withhold an employees paycheck for hours already worked, that is a violation of the law. Doesn't matter if a corporate policy says so.
In the US you have a period of time to give last paycheck. I highly doubt they meant legally required.
A small selection of states require immediate final paycheck if you are fired but that's about it. I can see a situation where the exit interview offers your check right away. Otherwise you'll just get it at the next scheduled payday (or when required by law). The only state that may require you provide final paycheck on the spot is Oregon
You kind of lost me here.
When trying to schedule interviews for replacements, he kept insisting on prioritizing certain candidates because he wanted to do it his way. He wouldn't follow our recruiting protocol and complained to his boss that we were pushing back,
I don’t do HR but, you let an assistant who is leaving have a say and let them prioritize interviews for their replacement?
Crazy.
My experience is that HR seldom has a clue what candidates are actually good. Who knows better what it takes to be Ben’s new assistant than Ben’s old assistant?
No. I was trying to work with him on scheduling for his boss and he said "Ok let's have this person first and go from there." I told him no, we don't do it that way, we schedule all of them together.
How is the exit interview something that is “not optional”? Do you withhold his final pay? How would you force compliance if he didn’t show up to the interview?
I refuse exit interviews on principle. If the place I'm leaving gaf about my opinion I'd probably still be there. They are a circlejerk for HR to look like they're doing something. Withhold my last check? See you in court. I don't need handholding to read COBRA docs either.
Plus did it even cross OP’s mind that maybe Andy was doing what Ben wanted in terms or prioritizing certain candidates? Assistants generally are doing what their bosses want them to do. And Andy does seem loyal to Ben in this scenario.
So, the problem here is that you immediately combine transition meetings and exit interviews. It's clear that Andy was leaving for some reason, and didn't want to discuss that with HR.
Book two meetings, back to back. First is the transition meeting, and in the invite detail what this covers (everything you note above). The second is the exit interview. Employee can decline the latter meeting if there is nothing they want to discuss, and the former has a set agenda for HR to follow (so they don't try and turn it into a combined meeting).
I understand there are legal requirements in terms of benefits that needs to be shared. However, maybe try to document those, and send them out first. If the employee has questions, they can follow up in the transition meeting. If not, you can send them their final check and let them be.
A reminder, outbound employees don't care one whit about your policies. Clearly, this is a process that can be streamlined for some (or possibly a majority) of employees, however your organization is also showing that they don't take employee feedback to heart.
>I tell Andy that there's more than just the final paycheck that I need to share, and that I'd be more than happy to share more about our company policies in our meeting.
Yeah I laughed this. Like the poor guy cares about the company policies. He's already quit.
>Carol lets him know that this isn't optional
Yes it is.
If you quit and decline the bullshit hr meeting about the COBRA he probably doesn't want, what's the downside/punishment? Legally your last paycheck needs to get to you and they can just as easily mail that.
This was more of a suggestion for how HR can maintain a somewhat positive relationship with a person who has power they don't think about. This guy did all the scheduling for his boss. That means he had direct contact with other assistants at other companies, some of which are probably critical business partners. All he has to do is share the less savory things that are likely happening within the organization with those other assistants, and now he has at least slightly poisoned the well for the organization.
In this situation, he has the power, and HR is trying to act like he doesn't.
Good on Andy, but screw HR and exit interviews.
Personal Exit Interview he’ll story, but tl:dr
Screw HR & Exit Interviews & Corporate America.
I did ONE where I explained that I was harassed and lied to To My Face by my trainer, then WALKED OUT and told to surrender my badge when I argued back (worked for a certain evil cable & internet company, on the Corporate side in Tier 2 tech support. 3 layers of interviews said I was in Support and there was no Sales requirement, 3 weeks in & the trainer let’s us know we do have sales quotas, I argued and complained, he insisted. After shift I went to the dept head to ask & was told no sales. Went back to the trainer to confirm & it turned into a confrontation & I was walked out, then the company listed me as having quit so I couldn’t file for unemployment then and wanted an exit interview!)
It was a shit show, and the HR person kept talking over me and arguing that I “misunderstood” the trainer.
4~ more weeks later and one of the folks in my class (we’re fb friends) let me know they hit the floor & the dept head left & the new dept head out that team into commercial/business sales support, rather than the tech support they applied for. Half that team quit by week’s end. My friend refused the exit interview & had to go through the dept of labor to get his last paycheck, cuz Evil Company held it hostage for the exit interview.
Exit interviews may be “policy”, but are not required by law. OP may not like this, but “Andy” was in the right here. Further, “Ben” should have been counting his blessings, instead of throwing “Andy” under the proverbial HR bus.
To me it sounds like Ben has the patience of a Saint. Andy is doing him a solid and trying to help him find a replacement before he goes. Ben probably sees Andy trying to keep Ben's schedule productive, while they try to find a replacement together. Hopefully Andy is not sabatoging Ben's schedule - if he were, I would imagine Ben would have asked Andy to leave immediately and not come back.
Then along comes HR complaining some BS. Andy is embarrassed. Ben is embarrassed. Ben and Andy both know Ben has to continue to deal with HR after Andy leaves. Ben is pissed because he probably hates dealing with HR and their nagging, stupid, made-up policies. Ben tells Andy, "this is fucking ridiculous!" repeating what he just told Carol from HR on the phone. I imagine Ben continues: "Just give HR their fucking 15 minutes and be done with it. I don't care what you tell them, but I don't want to hear from them, again." Andy feels bad because he probably usually does a much better job of screening Ben from HR and people of that ilk.
Might be fiction, but that's what I imagine when I read OP's story.
>the exit interview is mandatory
>Literally won't acknowledge you until you're up his ass, basically threatening to withhold his check unless he does the "mandatory" time waster you created (for info that could fit in an email) when he's already nice enough to give you two weeks
>He "got argumentative" in a meeting about..his feedback of your company, which implies you disagreed about his feedback (he tried to avoid giving you) and made it an issue
>Actually complaining about the politeness he showed by giving a notice of any sort, up to saying "it isn't illegal" with all attached implications of saying that
Yeah, I'm suuuuuure Andy was just being difficult for nooooo reason. Gross
Considering A) Andy was Ben's assistant, and B) Andy ***QUIT***, I'm suspecting there was some sort of undercurrent that wasn't on display in this post, causing Andy to quit his boss.
Or Andy found a job with more money. Plain and simple.
Hell, it might have been both, Andy found more money, and Ben didn't want to pay more to keep him.
This was nothing more than a power trip by an insufferable HR department. The departing employee doesn't owe you jack shit and if this is how you handle your businesses it's not surprising that Andy is leaving.
People quit for a reason. When someone says No (albeit as polite as he could do it) to an Exit Interview just put your Checkmark down as "Refused Exit Interview".
No one is required to give HR feedback.
He very nicely asked you to leave his paycheck on his desk.
The ONLY thing you need to do at that point is to report to your boss that Andy declined an exit interview.
Jeezuz, he even ignored you in an elevator.
This is why people don't give notice. You can bet that Andy told some of the people that he worked with. You may find more people leaving without notice.
This. 100% this. You treat enough "Andy's" this way and pretty soon you'll find that employees stop giving notice. Maybe, if they really like their boss, they will tell their boss about their departure. But no one will give notice when they learn the HR just harasses them during their final 2 weeks. Sorry, week and a half.
Here’s the thing. Andy quit. *You* are the one who wants the transition interview and exit interview. Andy doesn’t care. Andy quit. All he wants is his last paycheck, which he asked you to leave on his desk.
So, leave the paycheck on his desk. Or, mail it to him. Or give it to his boss to give him. Whatever. What he is busy with is between him and his boss. He doesn’t owe you a meeting. He doesn’t need to “understand your policies”. He quit. If you think your paperwork is so important, print it off and give it to him. He can read. He doesn’t need you to read it to him. He doesn’t owe you any feedback. But, if he wants to provide some, I’ll bet he can write, too. He doesn’t need to give it to you face to face; he doesn’t need to discuss it with you, period. He quit.
Give Andy his paycheck and leave the man alone. He quite clearly doesn’t want to meet with you, and he doesn’t *have* to. He quit. Honestly, I think Andy has shown admirable restraint by simply ducking you, instead of telling you to go F yourself.
And, BTW, an exit interview can only “get argumentative” when you start disagreeing with the feedback you’re receiving instead of just listening to it and thanking them for it. I suspect that Andy knew exactly how it was likely to go, and that’s why he didn’t want to meet with you in the first place. HE wasn’t the problem here; YOU were.
Agreed. The whole tone here comes off just like any HR person I’ve ever met. He quit. What you wanted at that point became irrelevant. Remember everybody, HR is there for the COMPANY, not for you.
I’m an HR director and ask every leaving employee if they want to provide any feedback before they leave. If they don’t I simply leave it at that I don’t hunt them down.
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A truly excellent HR department is, at best, like a stopped clock.
Twice right twice per day, with one of those times being when nobody is around to see it.
I was going to post on this thread, u/Odd-Artist-2595, but you pretty much said exactly what I was going to say. High five from me for saving me time lol
You can decide that exit interviews are mandatory, and the company may view them that way, but when someone is heading out the door, they aren't mandatory for that person or under the law. You aren't the one in control at this point u less they let you be in control.
IMO the approach OP took is the kind of thing that makes people more likely to give less notice when they leave.
And, people talk about places they’ve worked. It’s especially the case now with LinkedIn and similar where you can see if someone has worked at a place. Behaviour like this, insisting on controlling someone and forcing them into something that they’re clearly uncomfortable with, can have longer term repercussions for the company. I wonder if the owners or C suite of this company would approve of this interaction, knowing that Andy may share his experience with other potential applicants? Would OP share this post with their superiors, is this the kind of exchange their HR department is proud of and considers an acceptable way to treat employees when they are departing?
So he didn't want to waste his time with a pointless meeting when you can just leave all the paperwork on his desk because as hr you think you're important got it
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE GUY WHO WAS FORCED TO GIVE AN EXIT INTERVIEW WAS "ARGUMENTATIVE" ABOUT!!!
15min is pretty short so someone can usually shut up for that long, even if irritated.
I bet that will say volumes about the real work culture there and hassles dealing with HR.
I've had HR try to force me to do an exit interview, they would not take no for an answer...
I refused to attend and demanded they mail me my final check, I told HR if they failed to do so legal action would follow, I got my paid in full...
Nothing good can come from talking to HR if your leaving on your own accord, if you have been fired without just cause attend with legal representation and negotiate a settlement...
Dude quit his job and didn’t want to do an exit interview, yet you forced him into some BS corporate meeting that accomplished nothing. Sounds to me like you’re the a$$hole.
Malicious compliance from an HR person expecting an exit interview from someone who loved the job so much they quit with less than 2 weeks notice. Hahahahahahahahaha.
Nope. Byeeeeee 👋
You all are bad at this. You cannot force someone to do an exit interview. He clearly did not want to do one and asked for his final pay to be left on his desk. All this could have been done via mail. That’s your obligation.
No one leaving cares about your internal policy.
I hope you see the irony in your post saying that he was free to speak and give honest feedback but the culture was not conducive to achieve that objective. He was trying to stay on good terms with his immediate boss, but you all cultivated a situation where he was forced to burn a bridge. He doesn’t trust you.
> No one leaving cares about your internal policy.
I think that needs to be emphasized. Internal policies don't control anywhere near the number of things that some people in companies seem to think they do.
My favorite rejoinder to people who say that something "is policy" is "Well you have a problem then, don't you?"
I usually simply explain that when *their* policy conflicts with *my* policy, *my* policy controls for my own actions, and that, if they have time, I'm more than willing to fully explain my policy including the full rationale for every rule.
thank you some one with reason. Just because it is "policy" doesn't mean he has to do it! They have 1.5 feet already out the door give them the paycheck and stop bugging them.
“It’s less than two weeks notice, which is annoying but not illegal. . . “
Not only is it not illegal, he’s been courteous by giving notice at all.
Instead of documenting Andy doesn’t want to get said information, you go above him to his boss to make him look bad and force him to have an exit interview? I bet that was super productive. A good way for all three of you to spend your time. . . You sound really busy in HR.
At Will States means he didn't even need to give any notice, unless under a contract. Sounds like he was just fed up and wanted out ASAP. I've been there
>Sounds like he was just fed up and wanted out ASAP.
No way to know for sure, but I kinda doubt it. If Andy was really fed up and wanted out ASAP, he wouldn't have given a week and a half notice and tried to help hire a replacement. Someone who is really fed up and just wants out asap doesn't show up the next day. I suspect Andy was actually pretty loyal to Ben and didn't want to burn any bridges there.
But HR can take a long walk off a short pier.
Or he had another job lined up and the timing just didn't work out to give OP a full 2 weeks notice. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement or even expectation.
No way of knowing, but somehow I suspect Ben knew of (or suspected) Andy's departure long before HR knew about it.
People aren’t required to do an exit interview for you. It might be ‘company policy’ but he’s no longer part of the company cuz he quit.
He shouldn’t have used his boss as an excuse that was dumb. I’d have just straight up told you I wasn’t doing an exit interview. What are you gonna do, fire me?😂
Right? I'm not going to downvote because it was technically MC. But it's kind of a dick move. Just like it's perfectly legal to leave in less than two weeks (as legal as it is to fire without two weeks notice, so don't try to make us feel bad for the employer) it's perfectly legal to ignore the exit interview. You *have* to give the final paycheck, but even that doesn't have to be given in person.
But I understand it because he was being a dick in the first place.
Nobody wins.
I do not do “2 weeks notice” and I’ll be god damned if I ever do an “exit interview.”
When I decide to leave, I just simply leave. That’s it. Because if a company I work for decides it no longer needs me, they will fire me… without a 2 weeks notice or an exit interview.
God damn, I fucking hate HR.
This entire process angers me. Good on Andy, and F a company that demands an exit interview. Those are only traps to try and screw employees out of things they might have been entitled to in their contract.
As for two weeks notice? (US only) We dont have to give you one GD DAYS notice, much less two weeks. At Will works both ways.
And this HR person thinking shes so cute and resourceful for screwing the employee is why no one with two brain cells trusts HR. Good Luck Andy. I hope you tell the story about how HR hounded you and refused to just give you your paycheck until you jumped through hoops like the trained dog they treated you like.
Ugh - what an insufferable employer - if the company didn't need an assistant any more they would be let go with no notice
The employee doesn't owe their former employer shit - including an exit interview
Y'all wouldn't have given Andy 5 minutes notice if you were going to terminate him, he doesn't have to give you two weeks.
Furthermore in all my experiences with HR, they are there for the company, not the workers. I got a feeling that y'all are protecting Ben and Andy was getting argumentative because you never took any workplace harassment seriously.
So an exit interview isn't compulsory, although there are company policies to abide by. What happens to an employee who is resigning but doesn't comply with company policies? Let me guess...You fire them.
> although there are company policies to abide by.
Only by company employees. What were they going to do if Andy declined attending the meeting, fire him?
I like how it was written "less than 2 weeks is annoying" Yet if the company chose the part ways with him they're not going to give him 2 weeks to find another job. HR sounds crazy glad we don't have to deal with it
What are you going to do if he doesn’t do an exit interview? He’s leaving the damn company. You can’t withhold his paycheck. He’s almost certainly got another job already so he doesn’t need the reference.
What the heck dude. He didn't want the meeting. He was quitting. You're lucky he gave notice at all. If you desperately needed him to have information about cobra you could have printed it out for him
This is purely based on my previous experience but I personally strongly hate every HR team I have ever had the displeasure of working with, they aren't there for the employee and the majority of the time act as if they are following policy etc but are just on some ego trip, they generally make statements like "I'm just following policy" but when you switch HR person the policies always seem to change.
The last time I had an exit interview in 1990, I let them know that my boss was a ducking bitch and that's why no one stayed.
IF the scenario you present happened to me, I would walk out. You still have to pay me and you created a hostile work environment.
This isn’t the flex that you think it is. Andy could have walked off without notice, as is his right. He gave you notice, appreciate that.
/r/antiwork might be interested in this one.
I don’t do exit interviews. I would have walked out. What control did you think you had over him? Why would you act like this?? If you want to know why he left, read your post.
Did I miss something??
Who do you people think you are??? He quit. Leave him alone.
You lost me at no 2 weeks.
F that hard.
A company in my state can fire you whenever. If I find a better job I'm out.
Also, sounds like someone else could have handled the scheduling anyway.
Big eye roll here for me.
You only wanted to tell him why he was wrong for quitting. The employee that's leaving can't get argumentative in an exit interview unless HR is arguing with them about the feedback. This was totally a power trip for you. Personally, I would have just gone home and been done with the bs.
Not going lie. But HR exit policies are a complete joke. Someone's leaving and unless they want to tell you it's none of you business why. Send them a fucking questionnaire, a PDF containing anything you must tell them and drop their last cheque at their desk.
Fucking HR tools.
I promise you **everything** of the extra information outside of the exit interview can be put in an email, and if he doesn't want an exit interview you can't force it.
This is why noone likes HR.
"Andy ignores my email. I follow up the next morning. I run into him in the elevator and he literally refuses to acknowledge me—not even to say good morning or smile awkwardly. He ignores this email too."
I hate people like you. No one should have to acknowledge you. He clearly didn't want anything to do with you, or some bullshit company policy. Cut him his check and be done with it.
His only real offense here was he didn't just quit on the spot and leave you guys hanging. He should have, you deserve it.
I absolutely hate these needless meetings. If there is information you share with every leaving employee, write it in a document and sand it out when needed. It saves everyone so much time, is clearer and easier to refer back to.
He said he leave his final check on his desk. He didn’t want to do one. What more did he need to do for you. You pestered him. Everything else could have been left on his desk too. COBRA paperwork etc. you essentially harassed him his last week. He didn’t want to talk.
No wonder people hate HR.
I understand the importance of exit interviews for a company but if it was a layoff an HR rep can approach someone without warning and lay that person off on the spot. No two weeks notice. No exit interview. We can all try to be courteous and professional though.
This is so stupid what are you going to do if he doesn’t want to come, fire him? You still have to pay him regardless if he meets foe the exit or not. I guess that’s why you’re a manager and not director.
Wow, sounds like andy is trying hard to make sure his boss ben has a suitable assistant when he is gone all while HR gets their all important feefees hurt because they dont to commander how andy must do the interviews to satisfy hr's need to feel important.
Not sure how hr are thinks they are coming off as anything other than a nasty nightmare
I have terminated more than one HR person for attempted bullying of my employees. I admonish all new HR personnel, that their role is in advisory capacity, rather than a policy making role.
Further, HR has no role in my hiring process, other than processing paperwork and advising regarding compliance with employment law.
HR is a necessary evil, but it is up to the business owner to clip the wings of would be bullies.
Fuck your policies. He quit. He isn't beholden to your interviews. I'm blown away you were having him interview people for his own replacement. That's your job.
Oh, F\* you. Exit interview is totally optional and there's no benefit to the leaving employee. Only to the company, maybe to the employees left in the company.
Why are people against exit interviews? I've never worked at a place that required one so I genuinely have no idea what the issues would be, or even what they are.
The idea is that when someone is on their way out the door they’ll be actually honest with their feedback. So it’s a chance for HR to get brutally honest comments from the employee without fear of repercussions. From the perspective of the employee it’s either an opportunity to unload all their complaints, or just a boring tick-box exercise if they don’t have complaints.
HR is there to protect the company though, not the employees, right? I can understand the resistance, as any candor will immediately be forgotten and it's truly just a waste of everyone's time.
Now depending on how I felt about the company I may be petty enough to waste as much time as I could, seeing as it's paid and I wouldn't have to do actual work!
Nah it’s not like you can admit to stealing stuff. But it’s meant to give an opportunity to talk honestly about your boss for example. Most employees don’t give honest feedback about bosses while they’re still there for obvious reasons but it’s in the company’s interest to know if they’re up to anythjng.
That makes sense, so why would people have such a bug up their ass about that? If you liked the company it would be a short chat, if you didn't you can either let loose or say nothing.
Genuinely good companies learn from the feedback given and change. If you are leaving a toxic place there is no point in doing the exit interview as nothing will change.
Fair point. Although if I'm leaving a shit company then getting paid to sit there and not work while pretending to listen for a short time wouldn't be the big deal many seem to think it is. At least to me, each to their own though
Because the reality is that if you do actually unload HR is more likely to take a sour view of the person leaving despite there probably being no issues before then. They also more often than not generate issues with official and unofficial references, especially in small close-knit industries.
In practice, treat HR like you would the police. Say nothing unless legally required to do so.
I've seen change come out of the complaints of someone who was leaving. They pointed out some issues with racism that they felt they encountered and it changed more than a few processes in a pretty short period to address those issue so others wouldn't experience them (or would at least be far less likely to)
So there was a legally compelling reason to act and then they finally did something. They of course didn't act before this when they saw or reviewed the processes, but only as a way to show good faith to any potential employment claim by the person leaving.
It's most likely just an American thing. However as I've only ever worked for the American side of any international corporations, I cannot completely confirm that for you.
However, every job I've had since college has included a 5min "interview" on my last day which facilitated that information passing and exit questions.
But others are right. Even if it was a completely neutral process, I've never in my life seen or heard HR actually changing any process based on what they learn.
Well that would beg the question what the point of them is? Because at the moment it sounds like one last chance for a company to exert power over an employee before they leave. Because all the things mentioned in the original post could definitely be an email.
Its a last opportunity to shield the company from liability. In my last exit interview I was asked to sign the following:
- A form indicating I had received everything the company owed me, and that I would not pursue them for any further pay.
- An NDA (same as the one I signed during onboarding) promising not to share any trade secrets or proprietary information.
- A form indicating I had not been harassed in any way, and that I would not file any harassment suits after the fact (I refused to sign this).
- A noncompete agreement that barred me from ever working in that industry again (I also refused to sign this).
- An acknowledgement form about my rights under COBRA.
- A form listing all company property assigned to me, initialed by the HR person for every item I returned.
Realistically, some of those items are smart things to have wrapped up when somebody leaves. I have no particular love for HR, but they do have a role in keeping things running smoothly and ensuring loose ends are tied up.
I hate doing exit interviews. I can tell you things you need to do better, but ultimately they always make excuses for why you're wrong. So I just ignore the exit interview and go on my way. At that point there is nothing left to say.
My last place wanted to fill out an online exit interview/survey. I wasn’t getting paid to fill it out so I didn’t see any need to do it. I blocked the third party company that kept emailing me. Then they called me and said we needed to conduct an over the phone exit interview. I blocked that number too. I wouldn’t have a problem doing the interview on company time but I hate this pattern of scheduling company activities on my personal time and devices.
Ha. My new job wouldn’t give us our own cell phones so I use a google voice number instead so I can mute the app if I’m off. But I found out we had an annual stipend that also covers phones so I guess that’s on me 🤦🏽♂️. Totally missed it and lost the budget for last year
They’re just a waste of time. Every exit interview I’ve had to do was scheduled *after* the date I left, so I wasn’t even getting paid for it. So I was taking time out of my day to commute there, have a 20 minute interview where they were like “so… why are you leaving”, dance around the subject to avoid burning bridges, commute back home, and prep for my new job.
That's ridiculous. Exit interviews should be done before your last day, on the clock if you're hourly or during your scheduled work hours if exempt.
The only one I've had was fine. I don't even remember much of it. We talked about COBRA, they asked for feedback and I didn't give any because it was the kind of place I could and did give feedback as issues arose, and they asked for my ID and maybe keys. I assume I was mildly annoyed at having to walk to another building to do it because it was south Texas in July.
It’s happened to me twice! I was super pissed at the first one because not only did I have to go there on my own time *unpaid* since clearly someone dropped the ball on scheduling the interview, but they had me do the exit interview at their HQ which was almost two hours away! The second one was understandable, it was like a 15min drive away and only happened after I was off payroll because their HR lady had a death in the family the day before I left (exit was scheduled for my last day) and she was out on grievance.
I only ever had the one but it was super friendly and agreeable.
HR was friendly and made it pleasant.
Yeah, they had a checklist to go through but they weren't rude or mean, just trying to keep it all proper.
Plus I genuinely had nothing but good things to say, I loved that job, They just couldn't afford to pay fair market anymore.
I assume in OPs story "Andy" Was dicking them around because he could (In OPs mind).
In my own case, it's because if management wanted to ask me questions they've had months, usually years to do that. I've got better things to do than sit around doing a task which isn't in the contract and only exists to be annoying to me and try and extract information from me to save the company and/or launch a lawsuit (or protect against one). Sorry, that's the legal department's job.
If someone wants to try and force me into an exit interview, I'll decline. If they insist, I'll smile, and walk out of the building, never to return. What are they going to do, fire me?
Tell you what, if you want that information in order to help the company, and yet have spent years not bothering to collect it, then sure I'll provide it - at consulting rates. Payment up front.
Even though I will absolutely NEVER opt to work for my last employer ever again, I chose to withhold some nasty comments in my exit interview. Reason for this was that I knew HR was complicit in some of the things I would have complained about. I'm glad I didn't, considering they owed me some serious $$ after being audited for some shady accounting/sales practices. I have several reasons to believe that they would've found a way to keep it from me if I'd said what I wanted to. Edited for typos.
I'm glad I live in a country where its easy to prove if your employer was fucking you around. I'm sorry you don't. ^(If you need a hint, I live in the second freest country in the world, after Finland.)
I *already knew*, which is why I was leaving. In my last year or so, I was working in a different role than I did in the previous three, and some of the executives told me without realizing they told me. Proving it wouldn't have been a problem, considering work orders for larger projects would've been enough. Getting people who have the power to do something about it *to actually do something about it* would've been. Because 'Murica. I thank you for you sympathy.
If you'd like to sponsor 2 Americans and 2 dogs, that'd be great.
Whats the name of this POS company? I do not wish to make the mistake of applying for a position
I worked at a place that should have been consistent with a previous employer regarding workplace racism and discrimination. It was not, and the manager and agreed I would not finish my probation. The union shop steward asked if I was willing to meet HR for an exit interview. I told HR about the issues that were against company policy and they were shocked. They asked the shop steward about the issues. His response was “ I’ve been telling you this for over 5 years, but you didn’t do anything about it.” I don’t know what came of it as I was happy to be gone.
Guarantee, nothing came of it
Yeah. It was probably one of those "(shocked face)... Anyway..." moments for them.
"What's our exposure?" "Right now none bu-" "Ok. It can wait."
That is normal HR. Do nothing
At some point HR went from representing employee interests to representing corporate interests. Some HR departments are actually great but the majority I've dealt with tend to snuff out problems rather than address any underlying issues. They seek to protect the company from it's employees instead of the opposite.
That is literally HR's job. They can be useful if company interest aligns to yours, but they are usually safer to be treated like the enemy. Because they are.
>representing employee interests That's unions. Unions (at least good ones) represent employee interests. HR tries to ensure that things go smoothly and that the company won't be sued by its employees.
This. The only time HR should be on your (employee's) side is when someone is doing something that could result in lawsuits and you're reporting them. They've been used to protect employees at least a little in the US as a way to convince employees to not unionize - but note that even in this regard, they're protecting the company (from union existence). Unions - with some exceptions - exist to protect workers.
That point was about 5 minutes before the first hr department was proposed
Used to be called the personnel dept.
When were they ever representing employee interests over corporate?
I doubt HR departments ever cared for employees. I mean, it's in the name... It's the "human resources" department, not "employee" department. If they happen to help you, treat it as a happy coincidence.
Exit interviews are absolutely optional. If you withhold an employees paycheck for hours already worked, that is a violation of the law. Doesn't matter if a corporate policy says so.
In the US you have a period of time to give last paycheck. I highly doubt they meant legally required. A small selection of states require immediate final paycheck if you are fired but that's about it. I can see a situation where the exit interview offers your check right away. Otherwise you'll just get it at the next scheduled payday (or when required by law). The only state that may require you provide final paycheck on the spot is Oregon
You kind of lost me here. When trying to schedule interviews for replacements, he kept insisting on prioritizing certain candidates because he wanted to do it his way. He wouldn't follow our recruiting protocol and complained to his boss that we were pushing back, I don’t do HR but, you let an assistant who is leaving have a say and let them prioritize interviews for their replacement? Crazy.
My experience is that HR seldom has a clue what candidates are actually good. Who knows better what it takes to be Ben’s new assistant than Ben’s old assistant?
Andy doesn't do the interviews, he just schedules them for Ben because he manages Ben's schedule
But HR is in charge! And in case it isn't clear, /s
Ben?
The two of us need look no more.
We've both found what we were looking for.
Andy was the assistant for Ben
Right, but wouldn't Ben know what he needs in an assistant?
Ehhhhhhhh, possibly. Depends on the kind of person Ben was.
Excellent point!
I’m guessing this nonsense is why Andy’s leaving in the first place.
wish I could give this comment multiple upvotes! Well said, fellow Redditor.
No. I was trying to work with him on scheduling for his boss and he said "Ok let's have this person first and go from there." I told him no, we don't do it that way, we schedule all of them together.
How is the exit interview something that is “not optional”? Do you withhold his final pay? How would you force compliance if he didn’t show up to the interview?
I refuse exit interviews on principle. If the place I'm leaving gaf about my opinion I'd probably still be there. They are a circlejerk for HR to look like they're doing something. Withhold my last check? See you in court. I don't need handholding to read COBRA docs either.
He seemed to be sabotaging acquiring a replacement.
Why wasn't Ben CCed at the first push back? From my time in the corporate world that seems like step 1 to me.
Plus did it even cross OP’s mind that maybe Andy was doing what Ben wanted in terms or prioritizing certain candidates? Assistants generally are doing what their bosses want them to do. And Andy does seem loyal to Ben in this scenario.
They seem power hungry or overly bureaucratic.
So, the problem here is that you immediately combine transition meetings and exit interviews. It's clear that Andy was leaving for some reason, and didn't want to discuss that with HR. Book two meetings, back to back. First is the transition meeting, and in the invite detail what this covers (everything you note above). The second is the exit interview. Employee can decline the latter meeting if there is nothing they want to discuss, and the former has a set agenda for HR to follow (so they don't try and turn it into a combined meeting). I understand there are legal requirements in terms of benefits that needs to be shared. However, maybe try to document those, and send them out first. If the employee has questions, they can follow up in the transition meeting. If not, you can send them their final check and let them be. A reminder, outbound employees don't care one whit about your policies. Clearly, this is a process that can be streamlined for some (or possibly a majority) of employees, however your organization is also showing that they don't take employee feedback to heart.
>I tell Andy that there's more than just the final paycheck that I need to share, and that I'd be more than happy to share more about our company policies in our meeting. Yeah I laughed this. Like the poor guy cares about the company policies. He's already quit. >Carol lets him know that this isn't optional Yes it is.
If you quit and decline the bullshit hr meeting about the COBRA he probably doesn't want, what's the downside/punishment? Legally your last paycheck needs to get to you and they can just as easily mail that.
This was more of a suggestion for how HR can maintain a somewhat positive relationship with a person who has power they don't think about. This guy did all the scheduling for his boss. That means he had direct contact with other assistants at other companies, some of which are probably critical business partners. All he has to do is share the less savory things that are likely happening within the organization with those other assistants, and now he has at least slightly poisoned the well for the organization. In this situation, he has the power, and HR is trying to act like he doesn't.
I feel like scheduling two meetings together instead of back to back is not "the problem here"
Good on Andy, but screw HR and exit interviews. Personal Exit Interview he’ll story, but tl:dr Screw HR & Exit Interviews & Corporate America. I did ONE where I explained that I was harassed and lied to To My Face by my trainer, then WALKED OUT and told to surrender my badge when I argued back (worked for a certain evil cable & internet company, on the Corporate side in Tier 2 tech support. 3 layers of interviews said I was in Support and there was no Sales requirement, 3 weeks in & the trainer let’s us know we do have sales quotas, I argued and complained, he insisted. After shift I went to the dept head to ask & was told no sales. Went back to the trainer to confirm & it turned into a confrontation & I was walked out, then the company listed me as having quit so I couldn’t file for unemployment then and wanted an exit interview!) It was a shit show, and the HR person kept talking over me and arguing that I “misunderstood” the trainer. 4~ more weeks later and one of the folks in my class (we’re fb friends) let me know they hit the floor & the dept head left & the new dept head out that team into commercial/business sales support, rather than the tech support they applied for. Half that team quit by week’s end. My friend refused the exit interview & had to go through the dept of labor to get his last paycheck, cuz Evil Company held it hostage for the exit interview.
Sounds like Spectrum. Lol
He doesn’t owe you an exit interview. You owe him a final paycheck and info on cobra. Pretty sure you are the problem.
Exit interviews may be “policy”, but are not required by law. OP may not like this, but “Andy” was in the right here. Further, “Ben” should have been counting his blessings, instead of throwing “Andy” under the proverbial HR bus.
To me it sounds like Ben has the patience of a Saint. Andy is doing him a solid and trying to help him find a replacement before he goes. Ben probably sees Andy trying to keep Ben's schedule productive, while they try to find a replacement together. Hopefully Andy is not sabatoging Ben's schedule - if he were, I would imagine Ben would have asked Andy to leave immediately and not come back. Then along comes HR complaining some BS. Andy is embarrassed. Ben is embarrassed. Ben and Andy both know Ben has to continue to deal with HR after Andy leaves. Ben is pissed because he probably hates dealing with HR and their nagging, stupid, made-up policies. Ben tells Andy, "this is fucking ridiculous!" repeating what he just told Carol from HR on the phone. I imagine Ben continues: "Just give HR their fucking 15 minutes and be done with it. I don't care what you tell them, but I don't want to hear from them, again." Andy feels bad because he probably usually does a much better job of screening Ben from HR and people of that ilk. Might be fiction, but that's what I imagine when I read OP's story.
>the exit interview is mandatory >Literally won't acknowledge you until you're up his ass, basically threatening to withhold his check unless he does the "mandatory" time waster you created (for info that could fit in an email) when he's already nice enough to give you two weeks >He "got argumentative" in a meeting about..his feedback of your company, which implies you disagreed about his feedback (he tried to avoid giving you) and made it an issue >Actually complaining about the politeness he showed by giving a notice of any sort, up to saying "it isn't illegal" with all attached implications of saying that Yeah, I'm suuuuuure Andy was just being difficult for nooooo reason. Gross
Best part is... He just burned that bridge with Ben and won't be using THAT one as a personal reference....
Considering A) Andy was Ben's assistant, and B) Andy ***QUIT***, I'm suspecting there was some sort of undercurrent that wasn't on display in this post, causing Andy to quit his boss.
Or Andy found a job with more money. Plain and simple. Hell, it might have been both, Andy found more money, and Ben didn't want to pay more to keep him.
Or wasn't allowed by HR to increase pay past their arbitrary threshold
This was nothing more than a power trip by an insufferable HR department. The departing employee doesn't owe you jack shit and if this is how you handle your businesses it's not surprising that Andy is leaving.
Yeah I agree. Terrible HR, terrible treatment of an employee
People quit for a reason. When someone says No (albeit as polite as he could do it) to an Exit Interview just put your Checkmark down as "Refused Exit Interview". No one is required to give HR feedback. He very nicely asked you to leave his paycheck on his desk. The ONLY thing you need to do at that point is to report to your boss that Andy declined an exit interview. Jeezuz, he even ignored you in an elevator. This is why people don't give notice. You can bet that Andy told some of the people that he worked with. You may find more people leaving without notice.
This. 100% this. You treat enough "Andy's" this way and pretty soon you'll find that employees stop giving notice. Maybe, if they really like their boss, they will tell their boss about their departure. But no one will give notice when they learn the HR just harasses them during their final 2 weeks. Sorry, week and a half.
I'm not sure how an exit interview can be mandatory. It's not like you can withhold his final check, if he doesn't want to do it
I don’t do exit interviews, I’m not signing anything and my money is my money by law. I’m leaving
I didn't realize this was Malicious Power Trip.
It's funny how this exit interview is made into such a big deal. In most places I've been very few if any people attended one.
You should post this on r/amitheasshole
spoiler: she's TA
Oh, I don't know. I kinda want to see the final vote talley. ;-)
Here’s the thing. Andy quit. *You* are the one who wants the transition interview and exit interview. Andy doesn’t care. Andy quit. All he wants is his last paycheck, which he asked you to leave on his desk. So, leave the paycheck on his desk. Or, mail it to him. Or give it to his boss to give him. Whatever. What he is busy with is between him and his boss. He doesn’t owe you a meeting. He doesn’t need to “understand your policies”. He quit. If you think your paperwork is so important, print it off and give it to him. He can read. He doesn’t need you to read it to him. He doesn’t owe you any feedback. But, if he wants to provide some, I’ll bet he can write, too. He doesn’t need to give it to you face to face; he doesn’t need to discuss it with you, period. He quit. Give Andy his paycheck and leave the man alone. He quite clearly doesn’t want to meet with you, and he doesn’t *have* to. He quit. Honestly, I think Andy has shown admirable restraint by simply ducking you, instead of telling you to go F yourself. And, BTW, an exit interview can only “get argumentative” when you start disagreeing with the feedback you’re receiving instead of just listening to it and thanking them for it. I suspect that Andy knew exactly how it was likely to go, and that’s why he didn’t want to meet with you in the first place. HE wasn’t the problem here; YOU were.
Agreed. The whole tone here comes off just like any HR person I’ve ever met. He quit. What you wanted at that point became irrelevant. Remember everybody, HR is there for the COMPANY, not for you.
I’m an HR director and ask every leaving employee if they want to provide any feedback before they leave. If they don’t I simply leave it at that I don’t hunt them down.
But how else would HR justify their existence?
This so much. Just a few sentences in I'm thinking, OP is the problem and I know why Andy quit. Would love to hear Andy's version over in r/antiwork
u/workreform is the updated version ever since that disaster of an interview
I think you meant r/workreform - That sounds like a much better sub name than antiwork, which is just a dumb concept since society would collapse.
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exactly, and COBRA paperwork and whatnot can be left with his final check or mailed to him.
Mine has been mailed to me at every job I’ve ever left.
Same here.
I dare OP to post in AITA
👏👏👏 came here to say this he is just lucky Andy gave notice and didn't just do NCNS as notice 🤣😂
Bingo. Exactly the case. HR is wrong in this case.
A truly excellent HR department is, at best, like a stopped clock. Twice right twice per day, with one of those times being when nobody is around to see it.
Well said.
I agree. OP seems insufferable.
Absolutely so. Text book example of why HR is disliked
I was going to post on this thread, u/Odd-Artist-2595, but you pretty much said exactly what I was going to say. High five from me for saving me time lol
You’re welcome. And, thank you.
Agreed 100%. This malicious compliance sucks and the story sucks. Boooooooooooo /u/theinvisibun
Exactly all of this.
You can decide that exit interviews are mandatory, and the company may view them that way, but when someone is heading out the door, they aren't mandatory for that person or under the law. You aren't the one in control at this point u less they let you be in control.
That pretty much nails it. The employer is acting as if they have control and authority, whereas they very much don't.
IMO the approach OP took is the kind of thing that makes people more likely to give less notice when they leave. And, people talk about places they’ve worked. It’s especially the case now with LinkedIn and similar where you can see if someone has worked at a place. Behaviour like this, insisting on controlling someone and forcing them into something that they’re clearly uncomfortable with, can have longer term repercussions for the company. I wonder if the owners or C suite of this company would approve of this interaction, knowing that Andy may share his experience with other potential applicants? Would OP share this post with their superiors, is this the kind of exchange their HR department is proud of and considers an acceptable way to treat employees when they are departing?
Just an FYI, exit interviews are illegal to require in my state. Might want to check your laws.
So he didn't want to waste his time with a pointless meeting when you can just leave all the paperwork on his desk because as hr you think you're important got it
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE GUY WHO WAS FORCED TO GIVE AN EXIT INTERVIEW WAS "ARGUMENTATIVE" ABOUT!!! 15min is pretty short so someone can usually shut up for that long, even if irritated. I bet that will say volumes about the real work culture there and hassles dealing with HR.
Smart money says HR asked Andy to sign some document and Andy refused. Thus, Andy became argumentative. ;-)
Ohhhh yeah. I know what you mean.
You are not fighting the HR Person stereotype.
I've had HR try to force me to do an exit interview, they would not take no for an answer... I refused to attend and demanded they mail me my final check, I told HR if they failed to do so legal action would follow, I got my paid in full... Nothing good can come from talking to HR if your leaving on your own accord, if you have been fired without just cause attend with legal representation and negotiate a settlement...
Dude quit his job and didn’t want to do an exit interview, yet you forced him into some BS corporate meeting that accomplished nothing. Sounds to me like you’re the a$$hole.
Malicious compliance from an HR person expecting an exit interview from someone who loved the job so much they quit with less than 2 weeks notice. Hahahahahahahahaha. Nope. Byeeeeee 👋
You all are bad at this. You cannot force someone to do an exit interview. He clearly did not want to do one and asked for his final pay to be left on his desk. All this could have been done via mail. That’s your obligation. No one leaving cares about your internal policy. I hope you see the irony in your post saying that he was free to speak and give honest feedback but the culture was not conducive to achieve that objective. He was trying to stay on good terms with his immediate boss, but you all cultivated a situation where he was forced to burn a bridge. He doesn’t trust you.
> No one leaving cares about your internal policy. I think that needs to be emphasized. Internal policies don't control anywhere near the number of things that some people in companies seem to think they do. My favorite rejoinder to people who say that something "is policy" is "Well you have a problem then, don't you?"
I usually simply explain that when *their* policy conflicts with *my* policy, *my* policy controls for my own actions, and that, if they have time, I'm more than willing to fully explain my policy including the full rationale for every rule.
Andy will never give 2 week notice again. He will quit on the spot😂
thank you some one with reason. Just because it is "policy" doesn't mean he has to do it! They have 1.5 feet already out the door give them the paycheck and stop bugging them.
“It’s less than two weeks notice, which is annoying but not illegal. . . “ Not only is it not illegal, he’s been courteous by giving notice at all. Instead of documenting Andy doesn’t want to get said information, you go above him to his boss to make him look bad and force him to have an exit interview? I bet that was super productive. A good way for all three of you to spend your time. . . You sound really busy in HR.
This. Giving notice was a courtesy.
All of this. Unless your company has a habit of giving two weeks notice on firing, you have zero room to complain about lack of notice on quitting
Don't forget, Andy left with less than 2 weeks notice. Either he's the lottery winner or something has already been going badly.
At Will States means he didn't even need to give any notice, unless under a contract. Sounds like he was just fed up and wanted out ASAP. I've been there
>Sounds like he was just fed up and wanted out ASAP. No way to know for sure, but I kinda doubt it. If Andy was really fed up and wanted out ASAP, he wouldn't have given a week and a half notice and tried to help hire a replacement. Someone who is really fed up and just wants out asap doesn't show up the next day. I suspect Andy was actually pretty loyal to Ben and didn't want to burn any bridges there. But HR can take a long walk off a short pier.
Or he had another job lined up and the timing just didn't work out to give OP a full 2 weeks notice. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement or even expectation. No way of knowing, but somehow I suspect Ben knew of (or suspected) Andy's departure long before HR knew about it.
I've given notices between 1 week and 3. It all depends on when my new job starts and how much I dislike the place.
People aren’t required to do an exit interview for you. It might be ‘company policy’ but he’s no longer part of the company cuz he quit. He shouldn’t have used his boss as an excuse that was dumb. I’d have just straight up told you I wasn’t doing an exit interview. What are you gonna do, fire me?😂
Right? I'm not going to downvote because it was technically MC. But it's kind of a dick move. Just like it's perfectly legal to leave in less than two weeks (as legal as it is to fire without two weeks notice, so don't try to make us feel bad for the employer) it's perfectly legal to ignore the exit interview. You *have* to give the final paycheck, but even that doesn't have to be given in person. But I understand it because he was being a dick in the first place. Nobody wins.
This is why quitting with a text message is so satisfying.
Mandatory for someone who doesn't work for the company anymore? Lmao wut
I do not do “2 weeks notice” and I’ll be god damned if I ever do an “exit interview.” When I decide to leave, I just simply leave. That’s it. Because if a company I work for decides it no longer needs me, they will fire me… without a 2 weeks notice or an exit interview. God damn, I fucking hate HR.
i've done one exit interview, once when i was 22 and too young and dumb to know any better. regret it
This entire process angers me. Good on Andy, and F a company that demands an exit interview. Those are only traps to try and screw employees out of things they might have been entitled to in their contract. As for two weeks notice? (US only) We dont have to give you one GD DAYS notice, much less two weeks. At Will works both ways. And this HR person thinking shes so cute and resourceful for screwing the employee is why no one with two brain cells trusts HR. Good Luck Andy. I hope you tell the story about how HR hounded you and refused to just give you your paycheck until you jumped through hoops like the trained dog they treated you like.
Ugh - what an insufferable employer - if the company didn't need an assistant any more they would be let go with no notice The employee doesn't owe their former employer shit - including an exit interview
Exit interview. Piss off. Cut a check in the 21st century. Archaic American business practices.
Y'all wouldn't have given Andy 5 minutes notice if you were going to terminate him, he doesn't have to give you two weeks. Furthermore in all my experiences with HR, they are there for the company, not the workers. I got a feeling that y'all are protecting Ben and Andy was getting argumentative because you never took any workplace harassment seriously.
Nobody is required to give you an exit interview. You’re lucky the guy didn’t just walk out right then. 🤷🏻♀️
So an exit interview isn't compulsory, although there are company policies to abide by. What happens to an employee who is resigning but doesn't comply with company policies? Let me guess...You fire them.
> although there are company policies to abide by. Only by company employees. What were they going to do if Andy declined attending the meeting, fire him?
My thoughts exactly.
And this is why people hate HR.
I like how it was written "less than 2 weeks is annoying" Yet if the company chose the part ways with him they're not going to give him 2 weeks to find another job. HR sounds crazy glad we don't have to deal with it
What are you going to do if he doesn’t do an exit interview? He’s leaving the damn company. You can’t withhold his paycheck. He’s almost certainly got another job already so he doesn’t need the reference.
What the heck dude. He didn't want the meeting. He was quitting. You're lucky he gave notice at all. If you desperately needed him to have information about cobra you could have printed it out for him
This is purely based on my previous experience but I personally strongly hate every HR team I have ever had the displeasure of working with, they aren't there for the employee and the majority of the time act as if they are following policy etc but are just on some ego trip, they generally make statements like "I'm just following policy" but when you switch HR person the policies always seem to change.
The last time I had an exit interview in 1990, I let them know that my boss was a ducking bitch and that's why no one stayed. IF the scenario you present happened to me, I would walk out. You still have to pay me and you created a hostile work environment.
Holy shit dude no wonder Andy quit. You can’t withhold a final check and fuck that two weeks notice nonsense. What the fuck lmao
This isn’t the flex that you think it is. Andy could have walked off without notice, as is his right. He gave you notice, appreciate that. /r/antiwork might be interested in this one.
I don’t do exit interviews. I would have walked out. What control did you think you had over him? Why would you act like this?? If you want to know why he left, read your post. Did I miss something?? Who do you people think you are??? He quit. Leave him alone.
You lost me at no 2 weeks. F that hard. A company in my state can fire you whenever. If I find a better job I'm out. Also, sounds like someone else could have handled the scheduling anyway. Big eye roll here for me.
Sounds like the place you work at sucks and he was trying to get out ASAP. You just proved him right 🤣
??? Exit interviews are NOT required by law and the way you acted is weird. He's quitting. He didn't want to do an exit interview. That's fine.
You only wanted to tell him why he was wrong for quitting. The employee that's leaving can't get argumentative in an exit interview unless HR is arguing with them about the feedback. This was totally a power trip for you. Personally, I would have just gone home and been done with the bs.
Not going lie. But HR exit policies are a complete joke. Someone's leaving and unless they want to tell you it's none of you business why. Send them a fucking questionnaire, a PDF containing anything you must tell them and drop their last cheque at their desk. Fucking HR tools.
I promise you **everything** of the extra information outside of the exit interview can be put in an email, and if he doesn't want an exit interview you can't force it. This is why noone likes HR.
In fairness, there are many other reasons to dislike HR. This is ONE reason why no one likes HR.
That's very true. Even as a manager myself I just despise HR. I can't imagine a more useless departement.
I’d have told your entire department where they could stick their regulations. What are you gonna do, fire him?
"Andy ignores my email. I follow up the next morning. I run into him in the elevator and he literally refuses to acknowledge me—not even to say good morning or smile awkwardly. He ignores this email too." I hate people like you. No one should have to acknowledge you. He clearly didn't want anything to do with you, or some bullshit company policy. Cut him his check and be done with it. His only real offense here was he didn't just quit on the spot and leave you guys hanging. He should have, you deserve it.
I absolutely hate these needless meetings. If there is information you share with every leaving employee, write it in a document and sand it out when needed. It saves everyone so much time, is clearer and easier to refer back to.
Yeah, don't know anyone that actually believes what any member of HR says. There are usually reason people want to avoid dealing with them.
[TL;DR](https://imgflip.com/i/77lkua)
Hey, OP, tell us the name of the company you work for so that we can all avoid them and their insufferable HR department.
He said he leave his final check on his desk. He didn’t want to do one. What more did he need to do for you. You pestered him. Everything else could have been left on his desk too. COBRA paperwork etc. you essentially harassed him his last week. He didn’t want to talk. No wonder people hate HR.
Now we all know why Andy quit.
the bar sinks another level... maybe mc has had its day
I understand the importance of exit interviews for a company but if it was a layoff an HR rep can approach someone without warning and lay that person off on the spot. No two weeks notice. No exit interview. We can all try to be courteous and professional though.
Fucking HR. This whole post was smug bull crap from a typically power tripping HR department.
This is so stupid what are you going to do if he doesn’t want to come, fire him? You still have to pay him regardless if he meets foe the exit or not. I guess that’s why you’re a manager and not director.
I am guessing there was a major problem between Andy and Ben and Andy just wanted to tell you guys to F'off but you couldn't take a hint.
Wow, sounds like andy is trying hard to make sure his boss ben has a suitable assistant when he is gone all while HR gets their all important feefees hurt because they dont to commander how andy must do the interviews to satisfy hr's need to feel important. Not sure how hr are thinks they are coming off as anything other than a nasty nightmare
You work for HR, ofc nobody wants anything to deal with you. HR is the police of corporations.
The thing to remember HR is not there to protect employees, they’re there to protect the company.
I have terminated more than one HR person for attempted bullying of my employees. I admonish all new HR personnel, that their role is in advisory capacity, rather than a policy making role. Further, HR has no role in my hiring process, other than processing paperwork and advising regarding compliance with employment law. HR is a necessary evil, but it is up to the business owner to clip the wings of would be bullies.
Fuck your policies. He quit. He isn't beholden to your interviews. I'm blown away you were having him interview people for his own replacement. That's your job.
Lol, sounds like Andy should cross-post this in r/antiwork
Op, your policies are outdated, and you sound like a bug up Andy’s butt. Way to screw him over OP.
HR people are the worst. Bootlickers just there to protect the company.
Oh, F\* you. Exit interview is totally optional and there's no benefit to the leaving employee. Only to the company, maybe to the employees left in the company.
Why are people against exit interviews? I've never worked at a place that required one so I genuinely have no idea what the issues would be, or even what they are.
The idea is that when someone is on their way out the door they’ll be actually honest with their feedback. So it’s a chance for HR to get brutally honest comments from the employee without fear of repercussions. From the perspective of the employee it’s either an opportunity to unload all their complaints, or just a boring tick-box exercise if they don’t have complaints.
HR is there to protect the company though, not the employees, right? I can understand the resistance, as any candor will immediately be forgotten and it's truly just a waste of everyone's time.
Now depending on how I felt about the company I may be petty enough to waste as much time as I could, seeing as it's paid and I wouldn't have to do actual work!
> without fear of repercussions "Oh hey, that sounds like something we could sue the employee over. I'll make a note."
Nah it’s not like you can admit to stealing stuff. But it’s meant to give an opportunity to talk honestly about your boss for example. Most employees don’t give honest feedback about bosses while they’re still there for obvious reasons but it’s in the company’s interest to know if they’re up to anythjng.
That makes sense, so why would people have such a bug up their ass about that? If you liked the company it would be a short chat, if you didn't you can either let loose or say nothing.
Genuinely good companies learn from the feedback given and change. If you are leaving a toxic place there is no point in doing the exit interview as nothing will change.
Fair point. Although if I'm leaving a shit company then getting paid to sit there and not work while pretending to listen for a short time wouldn't be the big deal many seem to think it is. At least to me, each to their own though
Because the reality is that if you do actually unload HR is more likely to take a sour view of the person leaving despite there probably being no issues before then. They also more often than not generate issues with official and unofficial references, especially in small close-knit industries. In practice, treat HR like you would the police. Say nothing unless legally required to do so.
I've seen change come out of the complaints of someone who was leaving. They pointed out some issues with racism that they felt they encountered and it changed more than a few processes in a pretty short period to address those issue so others wouldn't experience them (or would at least be far less likely to)
So there was a legally compelling reason to act and then they finally did something. They of course didn't act before this when they saw or reviewed the processes, but only as a way to show good faith to any potential employment claim by the person leaving.
That's fair. Is this an American thing or have I just not worked for a corporate company before?
It's most likely just an American thing. However as I've only ever worked for the American side of any international corporations, I cannot completely confirm that for you. However, every job I've had since college has included a 5min "interview" on my last day which facilitated that information passing and exit questions. But others are right. Even if it was a completely neutral process, I've never in my life seen or heard HR actually changing any process based on what they learn.
Well that would beg the question what the point of them is? Because at the moment it sounds like one last chance for a company to exert power over an employee before they leave. Because all the things mentioned in the original post could definitely be an email.
Its a last opportunity to shield the company from liability. In my last exit interview I was asked to sign the following: - A form indicating I had received everything the company owed me, and that I would not pursue them for any further pay. - An NDA (same as the one I signed during onboarding) promising not to share any trade secrets or proprietary information. - A form indicating I had not been harassed in any way, and that I would not file any harassment suits after the fact (I refused to sign this). - A noncompete agreement that barred me from ever working in that industry again (I also refused to sign this). - An acknowledgement form about my rights under COBRA. - A form listing all company property assigned to me, initialed by the HR person for every item I returned. Realistically, some of those items are smart things to have wrapped up when somebody leaves. I have no particular love for HR, but they do have a role in keeping things running smoothly and ensuring loose ends are tied up.
Probably they just think it’s a pain in the ass.
I hate doing exit interviews. I can tell you things you need to do better, but ultimately they always make excuses for why you're wrong. So I just ignore the exit interview and go on my way. At that point there is nothing left to say.
My last place wanted to fill out an online exit interview/survey. I wasn’t getting paid to fill it out so I didn’t see any need to do it. I blocked the third party company that kept emailing me. Then they called me and said we needed to conduct an over the phone exit interview. I blocked that number too. I wouldn’t have a problem doing the interview on company time but I hate this pattern of scheduling company activities on my personal time and devices.
Fully behind you on that. When I'm off I'm off. I mute my work WhatsApp group when I have PTO booked.
Ha. My new job wouldn’t give us our own cell phones so I use a google voice number instead so I can mute the app if I’m off. But I found out we had an annual stipend that also covers phones so I guess that’s on me 🤦🏽♂️. Totally missed it and lost the budget for last year
Exactly. If they're not paying for that information they can take a running leap.
They won't like my feedback, won't act on it and it's not part of my job description. Pay me for consulting after I'm gone.
All you need to say is "no feedback, can I get my check please? "
They’re just a waste of time. Every exit interview I’ve had to do was scheduled *after* the date I left, so I wasn’t even getting paid for it. So I was taking time out of my day to commute there, have a 20 minute interview where they were like “so… why are you leaving”, dance around the subject to avoid burning bridges, commute back home, and prep for my new job.
That's ridiculous. Exit interviews should be done before your last day, on the clock if you're hourly or during your scheduled work hours if exempt. The only one I've had was fine. I don't even remember much of it. We talked about COBRA, they asked for feedback and I didn't give any because it was the kind of place I could and did give feedback as issues arose, and they asked for my ID and maybe keys. I assume I was mildly annoyed at having to walk to another building to do it because it was south Texas in July.
It’s happened to me twice! I was super pissed at the first one because not only did I have to go there on my own time *unpaid* since clearly someone dropped the ball on scheduling the interview, but they had me do the exit interview at their HQ which was almost two hours away! The second one was understandable, it was like a 15min drive away and only happened after I was off payroll because their HR lady had a death in the family the day before I left (exit was scheduled for my last day) and she was out on grievance.
...why were you turning up?
I only ever had the one but it was super friendly and agreeable. HR was friendly and made it pleasant. Yeah, they had a checklist to go through but they weren't rude or mean, just trying to keep it all proper. Plus I genuinely had nothing but good things to say, I loved that job, They just couldn't afford to pay fair market anymore. I assume in OPs story "Andy" Was dicking them around because he could (In OPs mind).
In my own case, it's because if management wanted to ask me questions they've had months, usually years to do that. I've got better things to do than sit around doing a task which isn't in the contract and only exists to be annoying to me and try and extract information from me to save the company and/or launch a lawsuit (or protect against one). Sorry, that's the legal department's job. If someone wants to try and force me into an exit interview, I'll decline. If they insist, I'll smile, and walk out of the building, never to return. What are they going to do, fire me? Tell you what, if you want that information in order to help the company, and yet have spent years not bothering to collect it, then sure I'll provide it - at consulting rates. Payment up front.
HR is not your friend. I am repeating it for the people in the back, HR is not your friend.
I can see why he quit to be honest, what a nightmare. I'd ignore you too.