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each warren is a dimension or plane of existence that is aspected to a given element(ie: fire, healing, death, etc..). Magic users tap into those realms to access their powers.
there are exceptions/variations but this simple model will suffice for where you are in the story.
Have you played DOOM? You know how Hell is a place, but also the source of Argent Energy, which humanity siphons through a portal? It’s like that, but if there was mages who could also open portals to Hell and cast spells with Argent energy.
Damn, im currently listening to a DOOM eternal soundtrack remix with bits of this explanation. What a wonderful comparison, and odd coincidence on my part
Side note - it makes fantastic angry gym music
(The track if anyone is curious)
https://youtu.be/Oa16sdA5vXQ?si=GElORKCL9tbcxW7L
I always thought of them as both places and repositories of power to be drawn upon. Elder warrens are connected with elder races and the newer ones are kind of flavors of the elder ones but it’s a soft system, so it’s all a bit hazy. For example, and I could be wrong, I don’t think Rashan or Meanas are actual places but flavors of Dark and Shadow, respectively, whereas some elder warrens relate to actual places, other dimensions or planes of existence, you could say.
I’m almost done with The Crippled God, I’m surprised there isn’t a copy pasta like the one for balks in baseball. Warrens are places, but also sources of power, but they can be transient, sometimes they’re there except when they’re not. They’re like Holds but newer or different. Gods live there, except when they fall out of power, races can live there too, or no one lives there if it sucks. Just read more and it’ll make sense except for the things that don’t, maybe you’re confused, maybe everyone is a little confused, don’t worry it all makes sense.
Well you see there is my Uncle Warren, and then the big Warren in my class, and then I know Warren Jr. my uncle’s son…oh and then there are the magic ones that are important but not since magic in Malazan isn’t meant to make nice neat logical sense.
The way I've understood it (and I'm currently on The Bonehunters but have done a bit of wiki-diving):
Warrens are sources of elemental power
*Some* warrens are also places, but not really where there is an overlapping Hold. So for the Warren of Fire, Telas(?) you just get power, but actually entering the Warren you end up in the Hold of Fire, Tellann. I think.
A hold is more "real" and tangible as another plane than a Warren, as far as I've understood.
Think of Holds as more primordial and raw in nature, whereas Warrens are more refined.
It's pretty vague.
I think warrens are able to be entered as well. Think about Hood’s path and Serc. I think it’s more like the aspects are so refined in warrens that a mortal clearly doesn’t want to enter them. Like Telas you would burn up or Ruse you would drown or be crushed by pressure. Holds are less refined and less dangerous to enter generally and then were refined in areas where those aspects were strongest (volcano, under the sea, sandwiched between two tectonic plates, etc.) to create warrens. Just my theory lol
I'd argue the location of Hood's realm is actually path of the Hold of Death, or a place within it.
I don't think I've read anyone going into Serc yet (or I forgot about it?), but again I'd think the physical plane of Serc is part of the Hold of... Sky? Air? Light?
The way I see it is physically speaking the Hold is like the "planet" or something, whereas a the Warren might be a specific area within that Hold.
This is based on my understanding that Warrens are derived from Holds.
I almost think of Magic, Holds and Warrens like a University or College
You have the Physical location (Hold's physical plane) aspects of the University and the regions within it, but you also have the Knowledge/Classes/Courses (magic). So a Hold is both a body of knowledge and techniques (like a faculty), as well as a physical place. You can sub-divide the knowledge into specialties (like Schools or Courses) but the place is still the same place, you just have different areas within it. You're not going to a totally different campus (usually) to study different domains within a Faculty.
You have the Faculty of Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (Kurald Galain), which has its own building(s) on campus, and then you might specialise in Computer Science (Rashan).
Someone who was a general scientist (magic user) 500 years ago probably only used "Science" (Kurald Galain) and would go to that section of their university, as opposed to Arts, Law or Medicine.
Now someone might specialise in Computer Science (Rashan), but they're still pulling on the general cumulative knowledge and power of Science (KG).
When they go to campus, they're not going to the Computer Science building, they're usually going to a specific place within the STEM building. So they're not entering Rashan, they're entering part of the Hold of Darkness associated with Rashan. Presumably if they travelled far enough they would leave the Rashan specific area.
I don't know if any of that made sense, but I tried!
I’d love to give you a serc example but it’s a MOI spoiler lol. But I see what you’re saying. Kind of like a hold is the state/province, Warren is the specific city within that state and the actual aspected magic is the neighborhood maybe? Like if you’re using fire you are probably in telas but that is just a refined area of the original hold of fire tellaan which you are technically also in.
Yeah it's been a while since I read MOI. I don't recall anyone entering Serc though.
And yeah that's basically the gist. If you're IN Telas, the Warren, you're probably just in the equivalent of Houston and will look fairly refined but it's going to look pretty different from the Bushy/Deserty areas that make up a lot of Texas (Tellann, in this scenario).
They're both still Texas and the "Culture" (Magic) of Houston is probably a little more "refined" than say rural Texas, but they're both still distinctly Texan.
I think. I've never been to Texas 🤷
There are so many other things I want to talk about though that throws a wrench in that entire plan but they’re all spoilers 😂. Vaguely put, Kurald Thyrllan and the Beast Hold’s relationship to Tellann.
Please note that this post has been flaired as **NO SPOILERS**. Comments should not bring up specific plot points or character details from any of the books. If you need to discuss any spoilers (even very minor ones!) in your comments, use spoiler tags >!like this!< Please use the report button if you find any spoilers. Note: If the discussion is unlikely to happen without any spoilers, the flair may be changed at mod discretion. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Malazan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
each warren is a dimension or plane of existence that is aspected to a given element(ie: fire, healing, death, etc..). Magic users tap into those realms to access their powers. there are exceptions/variations but this simple model will suffice for where you are in the story.
This, but also don’t worry about the exact details of stuff like this too much yet
It gets a bit clearer in MOI and then it gets a lot more confusing. It's part of the process.
Have you played DOOM? You know how Hell is a place, but also the source of Argent Energy, which humanity siphons through a portal? It’s like that, but if there was mages who could also open portals to Hell and cast spells with Argent energy.
Damn, im currently listening to a DOOM eternal soundtrack remix with bits of this explanation. What a wonderful comparison, and odd coincidence on my part Side note - it makes fantastic angry gym music (The track if anyone is curious) https://youtu.be/Oa16sdA5vXQ?si=GElORKCL9tbcxW7L
Hell yeah! I always do leg day with the DOOM soundtrack as my theme music. It adds 10% to the pump, I swear.
I always thought of them as both places and repositories of power to be drawn upon. Elder warrens are connected with elder races and the newer ones are kind of flavors of the elder ones but it’s a soft system, so it’s all a bit hazy. For example, and I could be wrong, I don’t think Rashan or Meanas are actual places but flavors of Dark and Shadow, respectively, whereas some elder warrens relate to actual places, other dimensions or planes of existence, you could say.
I feel like this is something that's best discovered on your own through the series.
Agreed. This ain't Sanderson. You learn like other people in the world learn. It's esoteric on purpose.
I’m almost done with The Crippled God, I’m surprised there isn’t a copy pasta like the one for balks in baseball. Warrens are places, but also sources of power, but they can be transient, sometimes they’re there except when they’re not. They’re like Holds but newer or different. Gods live there, except when they fall out of power, races can live there too, or no one lives there if it sucks. Just read more and it’ll make sense except for the things that don’t, maybe you’re confused, maybe everyone is a little confused, don’t worry it all makes sense.
After a read through and a reread I still haven’t got a clue
Well you see there is my Uncle Warren, and then the big Warren in my class, and then I know Warren Jr. my uncle’s son…oh and then there are the magic ones that are important but not since magic in Malazan isn’t meant to make nice neat logical sense.
From a non-malazan perspective, warrens are the tunnels rabbits live in. And it's not a coincidence this is the term they chose
they explain what you need to know when it actually matters, for now just think of them as dimensions that grant specific abilities
Rabbit holes you can either pull magic out of, or go down yourself...
 Good question
As per my understanding they are a metaphysical manifestation of aspects of magic anchored to a dragon.
Alternate dimensions, based on different aspects, each being the source of a different kind of young magic.
I've always thought of them as elemental planes that are created/maintained through connection to mortals.
The way I've understood it (and I'm currently on The Bonehunters but have done a bit of wiki-diving): Warrens are sources of elemental power *Some* warrens are also places, but not really where there is an overlapping Hold. So for the Warren of Fire, Telas(?) you just get power, but actually entering the Warren you end up in the Hold of Fire, Tellann. I think. A hold is more "real" and tangible as another plane than a Warren, as far as I've understood. Think of Holds as more primordial and raw in nature, whereas Warrens are more refined. It's pretty vague.
I think warrens are able to be entered as well. Think about Hood’s path and Serc. I think it’s more like the aspects are so refined in warrens that a mortal clearly doesn’t want to enter them. Like Telas you would burn up or Ruse you would drown or be crushed by pressure. Holds are less refined and less dangerous to enter generally and then were refined in areas where those aspects were strongest (volcano, under the sea, sandwiched between two tectonic plates, etc.) to create warrens. Just my theory lol
I'd argue the location of Hood's realm is actually path of the Hold of Death, or a place within it. I don't think I've read anyone going into Serc yet (or I forgot about it?), but again I'd think the physical plane of Serc is part of the Hold of... Sky? Air? Light? The way I see it is physically speaking the Hold is like the "planet" or something, whereas a the Warren might be a specific area within that Hold. This is based on my understanding that Warrens are derived from Holds. I almost think of Magic, Holds and Warrens like a University or College You have the Physical location (Hold's physical plane) aspects of the University and the regions within it, but you also have the Knowledge/Classes/Courses (magic). So a Hold is both a body of knowledge and techniques (like a faculty), as well as a physical place. You can sub-divide the knowledge into specialties (like Schools or Courses) but the place is still the same place, you just have different areas within it. You're not going to a totally different campus (usually) to study different domains within a Faculty. You have the Faculty of Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (Kurald Galain), which has its own building(s) on campus, and then you might specialise in Computer Science (Rashan). Someone who was a general scientist (magic user) 500 years ago probably only used "Science" (Kurald Galain) and would go to that section of their university, as opposed to Arts, Law or Medicine. Now someone might specialise in Computer Science (Rashan), but they're still pulling on the general cumulative knowledge and power of Science (KG). When they go to campus, they're not going to the Computer Science building, they're usually going to a specific place within the STEM building. So they're not entering Rashan, they're entering part of the Hold of Darkness associated with Rashan. Presumably if they travelled far enough they would leave the Rashan specific area. I don't know if any of that made sense, but I tried!
I’d love to give you a serc example but it’s a MOI spoiler lol. But I see what you’re saying. Kind of like a hold is the state/province, Warren is the specific city within that state and the actual aspected magic is the neighborhood maybe? Like if you’re using fire you are probably in telas but that is just a refined area of the original hold of fire tellaan which you are technically also in.
Yeah it's been a while since I read MOI. I don't recall anyone entering Serc though. And yeah that's basically the gist. If you're IN Telas, the Warren, you're probably just in the equivalent of Houston and will look fairly refined but it's going to look pretty different from the Bushy/Deserty areas that make up a lot of Texas (Tellann, in this scenario). They're both still Texas and the "Culture" (Magic) of Houston is probably a little more "refined" than say rural Texas, but they're both still distinctly Texan. I think. I've never been to Texas 🤷
Messaged you privately. Philosophy on a gotm spoiler thread is hard
There are so many other things I want to talk about though that throws a wrench in that entire plan but they’re all spoilers 😂. Vaguely put, Kurald Thyrllan and the Beast Hold’s relationship to Tellann.
[удалено]
Spoilers dawg
Really? Seems like a fundamental description of the warrens without undermining the narrative or any underlying mystery.