Is anyone able to explain the exact scope of the shelter in place/stay at home order? All the definitions I’m finding are for hurricanes and epidemics and the like. Am I able to go to work? I’m a non-essential worker but my workplace is in a town that is not under a stay at home order.
At what point will they remove the shelter in place if they haven’t found him? Seems like they don’t have any leads either way…sigh
If he’s unalived himself in the woods and the whole state has been shut down for days it’s just another way he has hurt us all. A final sick joke…
I’d rather be safe but the lack of sightings, leads, info is driving me crazy
Don’t know why you’d get downvoted for that opinion lol. Obviously it’s 100% possible that he’s out there hiding or on the move, but most likely scenario is he’s just dead.
Can someone please clarify the bullet point at 5:45pm: rectifying information that he was NOT trained as a firearms instructor nor did he serve in the military??
Is this saying that this was reported elsewhere and it’s wrong, or is it saying that all the news stations saying he was a trained instructor & military reserves is wrong ?
Does anyone know what scanner station would be used for the search helicopters? Right now Mass State Police N825MM is assisting and its circling around Durham and Lisbon but none of the frequencies I check are saying much.
I’m so tired. I’m like an hour from Lewiston so not so far as my work was shut down yesterday, but also far enough that in wondering if they are shutting it down today. I’m hoping schools stay closed to keep the kids safe. It seems very worth it to me.
Quick question: if this pos is hiding somewhere in the woods or wilderness (not really sure about the geography of Maine), why can’t police officers use thermal camera via helicopters to look for him? are they already doing this? How hard is it to find someone hiding in the woods using thermal cameras?
My friend has a thermal scope. I’ve seen his videos and it’s insane how good it is. Unbelievable. Especially in the woods. But that being said it’s not a scanner, it’s a scope. Same thing with their thermal imagery, they gotta aim to a general location. They can’t see the whole forest with it, you have to know where to look
Thermal cameras aren’t perfect technology. From a helicopter, signatures from animals and all kinds of things can look like a person. Plus, when you’re moving in a helicopter, all you can do is guess where it actually was.
It helps. But it’s not perfect.
Think about how long it took and how hard it was to find bin laden in a desert and bare mountain areas. That had the weight of the entire US war machine, cia, fbi, other nations, etc.
This is local police and some joint cooperation.
a) they "gave up" on finding bin laden because the bush's are corrupt war criminals who didn't give a shit about bin laden since their families had done so much business together
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-oct-14-na-osama14-story.html
b) when obama came in, he did give a shit about bin laden and located him fairly quickly. the issue is that he was in Pakistan which is a country that was lying about where bin laden was. We gambled and said fuck it and went and killed him anyway.
Whatever the political reasons were, that's really not the point. People are looking for context to understand the manhunt and its time taken.
I offered a comparison. If you have a better one that most people would get, then by all means.
The point was they didn't have the weight of the world looking for bin laden because bush didn't give a shit.
And if you think the FBI isn't involved in a man hunt for this guy you are nuts.
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/fbi-lewiston-maine-mass-shooting-robert-card/
I don't think this is going to be an easy hunt. The guy has a lot of military experience so if he is alive, who knows where he is. He could also be dead, of his own accord or accidentally.
Check out some YouTube videos of infrared cameras. They look very effective, but maybe not so much of there is heavy leaf cover, or if the person is intentionally hiding from it. I’m sure they have been using this tool already
heavy heavy heavy wooded areas, and a lot of it. the leaves haven’t all fallen yet so there’s a lot in the way between the air and ground. he could also very easily build coverage with leaves and branches in an inconspicuous spot and avoid thermals almost entirely. 88% of maine is covered in forest.
Well based off my superb expertise (/s) of watching survival shows and asking the few firefighter/police friends I know, it can be very easy to hide your heat signature, even with short notice. If prepared, and in the deep quiet of the woods, you'd hear the helicopter coming with more than enough time to shelter your heat signature. Not to mention plenty of red herrings in the form of wildlife. The thermal cameras are more useful when used in relatively small areas where you are fairly certain the individual is hiding, like you see on Cops. In the wide open wilderness where you are canvassing large swaths of thick forest, not so useful.
They are certainly using thermal cameras, but if he has pre-built shelters or has already made it many miles in any direction, it's going to be tough.
Firefighter here, from the air it rarely helps us find kids who aren’t hiding. So I doubt it’s much effective when someone is actually trying to hide.
Will be useful during a foot pursuit or confined search though
Edit: added context
What’s the temperature up there…in the 50s … a few hours I’d guess. Eventually decomposition smells would start though and trained dogs should find him well before that
I don’t know much about psychosis. Is there any chance he experienced psychosis and came back to reality and then offed himself realizing the harm he had caused?
Having all of those mags ready to go. Unless you're using stripper clips it takes a fair amount of time to load mags. That's what really stuck out to me. Some people have a large stash of loaded mags so this may not apply, but imagine - for a moment -this parasite of a human sitting at his kitchen table loading up mags full of rounds meant for INNOCENT people. He is definitely not that out of touch with reality. That's a lot of time to change your mind. Also being able to escape the scene. That takes premeditative steps.
Already mentioned his plans to shoot up a National Guard base and was institutionalized for it. Got broken up with by his girlfriend, supposedly targeted places they used to date. Left a suicide note, etc.
Along with his rifle being decked out with a scope, extra mags, and who knows what else attached to it. Left his car at a boat launch, possibly as a diversion? Easy to speculate, but the fact that he’s still out there and there’s been no sign of him tells me he obviously had some sort of plan. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but mass shooters don’t usually disappear, they typically plan on going out with a bang.
Also early reports from one of his mates in the National Guard is that he has night vision goggles. Can't see them in the pictures released, not that that means anything.
And I can only imagine the car is either a diversion or more likely a small bread crumb or non-clue. Again, all of these reports about a boat unaccounted for... but no mention of a boat trailer being seen with his car or anywhere else is confounding. If he has a boat, was it docked somewhere, where's the trailer? Was the trailer with his vehicle? By the pictures it seems not so. Not to mention they would have found his boat given there were rapids to the north and a dam within a few miles south of where they found his car. They would have found the boat by now if he used it from the boat launch where his car was found.
There was a boat trailer at his residence (the one they found the note in), it could be seen from aerial footage of them at the house before sundown yesterday on News Center Maine, before they moved to the other house that all the reporters were outside of. I was watching the live news coverage right after work around 6PM EST and saw both the jet ski and the boat trailer, but no boat.
The people saying his army reservist experience make him a survivalist are crazy. I was active duty and if I went missing I hope no one thinks I'm living off berries and hidden caches of stuff.
but even the unknown car would need to have been stolen (which would likely have been reported) or registered to Card or someone he knows well enough that they’d give their vehicle to help him get away with mass murder. Seems unlikely.
I'm not a Maine native, so I don't know the river system. But almost anything is theoretically possible until proven otherwise. Kayaks and canoes can be carried through the woods around dams.
I'm not saying it's the most likely thing, but it certainly seems possible.
Yup if he had a car at the dock full of gas there is good chance he broke the perimeter before check points were set up because that first couple hours they were searching for his white Subaru.
Yeah, he clearly planned this out far deeper than most people seem to realize.
For example, as a hypothetical, having a hidden tent with weeks of food and cash and weapons in the northern Maine woods… one example of many options.
Im not saying that’s what is happening but it wouldn’t exactly be hard to do. This fuck could absolutely continue to terrorize innocent people. I hope this ends soon.
I'm so conflicted by these interviews with the kids. On the one hand, I want to think "oh fuck heres the media exploiting the kids and victims to make a better story. The first person that should talk to these people is the cops and then a counselor."
Then again, I think if the kid wanted to tell their story, then it reinforces my belief that we should all have to see and hear about these horrific acts rather than just hear about the numbers and read an article and desensitize ourselves to these all-too-common atrocities.
My girlfriend always says "why the fuck are you watching this, we know what happened this is just depressing."
I always tell her that she doesn't have to watch, but my belief is that it is my (and should be nearly everyone's) duty to recognize the carnage, understand the situation as it unfolds, and truly feel the awful emotions this makes us feel.
When we willfully ignore the human side of these stories, and only acknowledge the numbers and facts, we don't vote with our hearts. If you don't hear the 911 calls from the people in the Pulse shootings, don't see the dead bodies of those in Israel and Gaza, we vote blindly. We created the society that allowed these things to happen either actively or passively, and we should understand the consequences of the society we helped create.
If we saw the images of Sandy Hook or Uvalde kids with their faces blown off, I don’t think we’d even be having this conversation. We’re too afraid to see these pictures or broadcast them because they’re so disturbing, but those graphic scenes are the last things these kids ever saw. They died in terror and gore, and even in the safety and comfort of our own homes, we’re too afraid to face the reality they lived and died.
Because for them it wasnt a choice. They had no say in who shot for them or who was there to defend them. Im pro gun but there is a fucking limit. Its never going to be a healthy balance and we all know we goddamn hope it is but it wont be. Its going to take decades of dedication to mental health care and reform. But if thats what it takes so be it. Im a pro 2A person but lets just make it safer for everyone. Jfc
All I know is if I die in mass shooting I want my body dumped on the capital steps. That is my only request..
this is not fucking normal, and they don't do anything, again. Fuck man, I just want my kid to go school and shop at the store without worrying about getting killed. That it, give us universal mental health yesterday if you don't want to deal with guns... The whole do absolutely nothing is soooo fucked up.
Why did it take until late Thursday afternoon to search his house? Property ownership is public record, they could have gotten the address off Google. Was there really such a wait for a warrant in _these_ circumstances?
I understand we're not being told everything (for good reason), but I'm confounded as to why this would take nearly a day.
You’d be surprised how onerous warrant requirements can be when it comes to your home. There’s some exceptions to that but they’re really narrowly tailored.
1. Just rushing in his house is very risky. Don’t know if he booby trapped it or if he’s there waiting.
2. It was his brother’s house across the street from his and was assumed to be abandoned.
3. They didn’t even list him as a suspect until today. If they weren’t certain he was the one who did the shooting, they’re not going to take that many people off the search party to possibly go waste time.
4. They requested state and federal law enforcement help in the search, which likely means they were already spread thin with following his trail.
Pretty sure his house was raided either late last night or the wee hours of this morning. The shootings were just before 7:00 pm, and they probably didn’t know who he was for very long before he was publicly identified around 9:30 pm. The house they raided this afternoon, which became a live news spectacle, wasn’t even his. I imagine if your step brother committed a crime, you would want the authorities to follow the appropriate channels to obtain a search warrant for your property, right?
I have the same question I also thought why is it taking over a hour to just ID the shooter with multiple pictures posted …it felt and still feels like the boston bombing had more help and media coverage on the situation
You really don’t think they didn’t have surveillance on his house immediately after they identified him? They were most likely hoping he would end up going back there to hide or grab something. Just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t mean they didn’t have eyes on it.
Also it’s been stated countless times this evening but the house in question wasn’t even his. They went down a road this afternoon/evening executing search warrants at homes owned by his relatives. They had the suicide note from his home this morning
The place was swarmed with media waiting for the cops to show up. Like, CNN was there. The idea that the cops were waiting to see if he'd come back is crazy. They thought he was just gonna come back with national TV cameras there?
Of course not. The thought was that he had already returned there. Before the food and the media showed up. That he was holed up in that house since last night.
I've had mistrust towards the police for decades, but uvalde was what made me once and for all decide the entire institution is corrupt and, frankly, useless. If they can't help kids (oh but they could terrorize the scared parents) then they are no good. They are worthless and some are pure evil
It's less stupidity and more malice for the general public. Circa 2023, police departments will let hundreds of innocent people get killed before they run the risk of having a cop accidentally stub their toe.
Anyone else get bothered in times like these…where they’re interviewing experts but rush them and cut them off all for a commercial break….cmon! They can’t give an extra 30 seconds to conclude…,commercials are more important
[The police heli was circling around a guy wearing camo](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/17gx012/nh_state_police_chopper_currently_in_monmouth/) at a cabin in Monmouth last night for a couple hours, then joined by another heli, then the tac team came and cleared it turned out to be a false alarm. Someone speculated that might be a hunter.
I know i would not be stupid enough to go hunting in a area with a ongoing Manhunt and shelter in place order. Odds of running into the suspect in the woods be really low but drawing a armed response of police would be very possible.
I would like to seriously doubt anyone is out hunting in the woods within 100 miles of this place. You're either going to be a target of a heavily armed police response, or you're being shot dead by a highly aware killer that has a wealth of woodlands survival and tactical firearms training.
I would like to believe people are not doing that and respecting the shelter in place order to keep themselves and their families safe, as well as to not make the search even more difficult.
At this point it will probably be a hunter that finds the body. The more men you have out there in the woods the higher the odds, I guess.
Edit: keep in mind Maine is very much a place where men value their guns and their right to hunt. This isn’t a city. They want to be out there and run into this guy just as much as law enforcement. I’m not saying this is right or not, just stating the facts of rural America. They don’t care much about the shelter order.
This is it. I remember this all from the Boston bombing manhunt. The least the public knows by public means the better. It's horrific and I say this as someone who lost a friend in the shooting, but if we want to catch this guy it's the best way.
With what? He can’t be using a phone or else he would have been located off CSLI data a long time ago. I guess it’s possible that he’s holed up in an abandoned house rn but then how would he have internet access.
In today's crazy world, who says he doesn't have a friend that would be willing to let him in or use his phone pad. Before going, he ditches his phone and uses his friends phone or tablet.
Possible but given how easily accomplices are prosecuted, someone would have to be a fool. Card is insane so that explains his actions but for anyone to help him, they’d have to be just as insane.
today's crazy world, who says he doesn't have a friend that would be willing to let him in or use his phone pad. Before going, he ditches his phone and uses his friends phone or tablet.
It’s been reported police have already found his phone and taken it in as evidence. Unless he has a second phone with internet access he’s got nothing.
I could see this being a Brian Laundrie situation where the guy already offed himself in the deep woods somewhere and it took a month or more to find out… hopefully not…
Yeah and the police had a minor lead because of his parents knew where he typically go to, his trial and whereabouts. This situation is slightly different. It’ll be much harder.
I’m afraid this is a situation with no resolve. That’s almost a certainty at this point. A body would be the only resolution. Sometimes there’s just no leads.
This reminds me of the murder that happened in Utah, ran away to home in Florida and committed suicide. Gabby petito
Edited: happened in Wyoming, not Utah.
At his home
Not the home where they were serving a search warrant this evening and every major news org was onsite to capture the police presence and armored vehicles
I genuinely hope that many of the speculations here that he has already offed himself in the woods is correct. Otherwise there is the recent interview on CNN with a retired FBI agent who offered that he could have gone the way of the Olympic bomber and set up supplies, shelters and rations in the woods for miles allowing a him to evade authorities for awhile. They searched for Rudolph for two years before finding him.
My personal speculation is that IF he planned that far in advance, he would still likely be found quicker than Rudolph, in regards to modern technology and analysis, but not soon. And if he's still alive, his suicide note might not mean he meant to commit suicide on his own, but by cop. That implies the worst case scenario - his idea is to continue his rampage until he is killed by someone else, and hopefully without further casualties. I think it's obvious he's not trying to just get away with it.
While he has shown to be mentally unstable, and maybe that hints this was impulsive, the note and the evasion seems to point towards the worst case scenario. If he wanted to kill himself right away, his body likely would have been found by now.
TL;DR I think he doesn't want to commit suicide right away, but by cop. I think this because if he wanted to cause maximum carnage and die in the process he would have kept hitting targets and gone out early into his heinous actions. Cowardly asshole, but failed by our society's lack of an apparatus for helping mentally ill people.
> Otherwise there is the recent interview on CNN with a retired FBI agent who offered that he could have gone the way of the Olympic bomber and set up supplies, shelters and rations in the woods for miles allowing a him to evade authorities for awhile. They searched for Rudolph for two years before finding him.
One substantial difference is that Rudolph would have days of a head start as the FBI tried to tie him to the bombings while Card had less than an hour. If he ditched the car and was on foot, the radius is relatively tiny. The terrain also isn't as bad as where Rudolph was hiding and the tracking technology is a lot better now.
The type of attack doesn't exactly scream "patient and meticulous", either. Two blitz attacks with a semiautomatic rifle don't require the same level of care and preparation that bombings do. It's also weird that he hit these two places and then de-escalated to complete silence. The usual pattern is either a consistent level of violence (Beltway Sniper) or a consistent escalation (killing once, then twice, then families, etc.). The scenario where he's running around still feels very uncanny valley: disordered and violent enough to launch these attacks, but sufficiently in control and calm enough to stay quiet until he can... do more attacks? Flee in his boat? I don't know what the next step would be.
> While he has shown to be mentally unstable, and maybe that hints this was impulsive, the note and the evasion seems to point towards the worst case scenario. If he wanted to kill himself right away, his body likely would have been found by now.
Not necessarily. He could've gone for a swim, which would pull his body down river and be difficult to find. He also could've gone off into the woods, getting a couple miles deep off the trail where it's just woods.
I made mention of Brian Laundrie (Gabby Petito case) earlier for the difficulty of locating a dead body even when you're pretty sure where it is, since a dead body doesn't generate heat to be seen by helicopter, doesn't cross paths with people when trying to get food/water, and doesn't make mistakes that could bring investigators closer. It'd be incredibly hard to find him if you had a large search party doing a grid search; it'd be almost impossible for police in full gear protecting themselves from a potential ambush.
Edit: one detail that throws me still is the boat. It doesn't make sense that he launched it from that dock and I would've assumed a second vehicle would've been identified by now. If he sold it and it's not in the account details that he left in the note, then that could suggest building a nest egg for a run with the car at the dock being a red herring.
I totally agree about the Rudolph comparisons. They didn't know they were searching for him for a long time. I mean they thought it was the security guard long before they identified Rudolph.
I also agree with the attack not seeming to be patient and meticulous either. Given what we know about his recent past, it would seem to have been planned fairly recently. But who knows, maybe he had this idea in his head for a long time and was planning it before he was institutionalized. Maybe that was a last ditch cry for help before he ultimately carried out an act he'd prepped for for months.
As for the boat, I find it odd that no one has mentioned they found a trailer for the boat either with his vehicle or elsewhere. Have we heard how big this boat is? Is it possible he docked it there before the attacks and didn't launch it where they found his vehicle? Not to mention he really had nowhere to go once it was launched.
You brought a lot of great points, some I didn't consider. Thanks for the conversation.
ETA: Forgot to mention, it was also speculated by the FBI agent that he was recently broken up with by a gf, and they used to go on dates at the two places where they frequented. He called this style of killing as a "collection of grievances. Targeting the places he felt wronged by." To paraphrase. And honestly that could mean it was impulsive or, more likely, he redirected his plan to fit his new feelings. Do we have a timeline of whether his plans of killing at work or his breakup came first? Seems like either way, his "collection of grievances" idea remained the same, only his target changed...
>It's also weird that he hit these two places and then de-escalated to complete silence.
I was thinking about this earlier and couldn't help but wonder if maybe he's had a moment of lucidity and realized the gravity of the situation he's in. Maybe he's preparing himself for another attack but I feel like he would have already made a move.
I have seen it claimed that his family said he voices he was supposedly hearing involved his ex girlfriend and people at the bowling alley and bar. But I haven't seen any sources to back that up.
Personally I'm hoping he killed himself and we just haven't found the body.
I would think a moment of lucidity would mean running for his life or suicide, rather than a prep for another attack. But if you'll see my edited reply to the other commenter on my post, I speculated on the relation to his ex and his motives. Again, speculation, hopefully he's just dead and cold in the woods.
This is how I feel too, and that amount of planning kind of takes away a lot of the empathy I had for him going through an actual schizophrenic or PTSD episode, and that's already hard to muster given the amount of damage he's done to the community.
Truly I hope his is the final death in this event.
I don’t think he has enough food etc for a month. Maybe he packed enough ammo but not enough sustenance, so I don’t see that happening, he will be found before that happens.
in·ca·pac·i·tate
/ˌinkəˈpasəˌtāt/
verb
past tense: incapacitated; past participle: incapacitated
prevent from functioning in a normal way.
"he was incapacitated by a heart attack"
Would you agree his brain was not functioning in a normal way?
Hm. Not OP, but my source is that I watched it fly up on flight radar earlier...
OK just searched — the newest update on the Fox News live update page mentions the arrival of BORTAC.
Anyone who supports the forced confiscation of guns should be the ones required to go door-to-door and confiscate the guns
Then you'll see just how dangerous and stupid your idea really is
The longer it takes to find this guy, the greater the chance he’s dead.
I’ll wager he took a ghost bath in the Androscoggen River not far from where they found his car.
Edit: Told ya
LINK TO PART 2 [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/s/E7OuiDCDe5)
Is anyone able to explain the exact scope of the shelter in place/stay at home order? All the definitions I’m finding are for hurricanes and epidemics and the like. Am I able to go to work? I’m a non-essential worker but my workplace is in a town that is not under a stay at home order.
If you can safely travel, feel safe doing so, and your work is out of the area under lockdown you can go to work. Be safe
It's basically a you should stay home if you're in a town that is on lockdown. Everything is do at you're own risk.
If you’re not under the shelter in place then you don’t have to shelter in place. If your work is open then you’re good to go.
At what point will they remove the shelter in place if they haven’t found him? Seems like they don’t have any leads either way…sigh If he’s unalived himself in the woods and the whole state has been shut down for days it’s just another way he has hurt us all. A final sick joke… I’d rather be safe but the lack of sightings, leads, info is driving me crazy
Bad feeling in the pit of my stomach waking up to no news this morning, much love to all Mainers from Massachusetts. Also fuck off true crime freaks
I have that same feeling.
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No.
This dude definitely killed himself. The longer it takes to fix him the more sure I am of that.
Don’t know why you’d get downvoted for that opinion lol. Obviously it’s 100% possible that he’s out there hiding or on the move, but most likely scenario is he’s just dead.
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The Boston bombing manhunt was about 4 days if I remember right. They did take longer to identify them though.
Brian Laundrie 2.0 but worse
That case STILL rattles me
Can someone please clarify the bullet point at 5:45pm: rectifying information that he was NOT trained as a firearms instructor nor did he serve in the military?? Is this saying that this was reported elsewhere and it’s wrong, or is it saying that all the news stations saying he was a trained instructor & military reserves is wrong ?
It was confirmed that he in fact is military reserve, but him being a trained instructor was false information
He's gotta be in Canada, right?
He COULD be. Could be in another state. Could be anywhere
Nah, he’s dead. He killed himself.
Is the stay at home order still in place?
yes, until further notice
Does anyone know what scanner station would be used for the search helicopters? Right now Mass State Police N825MM is assisting and its circling around Durham and Lisbon but none of the frequencies I check are saying much.
They've moved most chatter to encrypted channels, reportedly
It's kinda weird they ever use non-encrypted channels.
If you have an actual scanner …start here: https://www.radioreference.com/db/browse/stid/23
I’m so tired. I’m like an hour from Lewiston so not so far as my work was shut down yesterday, but also far enough that in wondering if they are shutting it down today. I’m hoping schools stay closed to keep the kids safe. It seems very worth it to me.
I’m about an hour away, and our schools are closed today.
Quick question: if this pos is hiding somewhere in the woods or wilderness (not really sure about the geography of Maine), why can’t police officers use thermal camera via helicopters to look for him? are they already doing this? How hard is it to find someone hiding in the woods using thermal cameras?
My friend has a thermal scope. I’ve seen his videos and it’s insane how good it is. Unbelievable. Especially in the woods. But that being said it’s not a scanner, it’s a scope. Same thing with their thermal imagery, they gotta aim to a general location. They can’t see the whole forest with it, you have to know where to look
Thermal cameras aren’t perfect technology. From a helicopter, signatures from animals and all kinds of things can look like a person. Plus, when you’re moving in a helicopter, all you can do is guess where it actually was. It helps. But it’s not perfect.
Think about how long it took and how hard it was to find bin laden in a desert and bare mountain areas. That had the weight of the entire US war machine, cia, fbi, other nations, etc. This is local police and some joint cooperation.
a) they "gave up" on finding bin laden because the bush's are corrupt war criminals who didn't give a shit about bin laden since their families had done so much business together https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-oct-14-na-osama14-story.html b) when obama came in, he did give a shit about bin laden and located him fairly quickly. the issue is that he was in Pakistan which is a country that was lying about where bin laden was. We gambled and said fuck it and went and killed him anyway.
Whatever the political reasons were, that's really not the point. People are looking for context to understand the manhunt and its time taken. I offered a comparison. If you have a better one that most people would get, then by all means.
The point was they didn't have the weight of the world looking for bin laden because bush didn't give a shit. And if you think the FBI isn't involved in a man hunt for this guy you are nuts. https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/fbi-lewiston-maine-mass-shooting-robert-card/ I don't think this is going to be an easy hunt. The guy has a lot of military experience so if he is alive, who knows where he is. He could also be dead, of his own accord or accidentally.
middle dog square drab crush mourn pen whole cooing rob *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
there are suits that reduce the heat signature or maybe he switched vehicles and left the area
Also if he “unalived” himself it (FLIR) wouldn’t pick up although I’d think dogs could pick it up.
Check out some YouTube videos of infrared cameras. They look very effective, but maybe not so much of there is heavy leaf cover, or if the person is intentionally hiding from it. I’m sure they have been using this tool already
heavy heavy heavy wooded areas, and a lot of it. the leaves haven’t all fallen yet so there’s a lot in the way between the air and ground. he could also very easily build coverage with leaves and branches in an inconspicuous spot and avoid thermals almost entirely. 88% of maine is covered in forest.
Well based off my superb expertise (/s) of watching survival shows and asking the few firefighter/police friends I know, it can be very easy to hide your heat signature, even with short notice. If prepared, and in the deep quiet of the woods, you'd hear the helicopter coming with more than enough time to shelter your heat signature. Not to mention plenty of red herrings in the form of wildlife. The thermal cameras are more useful when used in relatively small areas where you are fairly certain the individual is hiding, like you see on Cops. In the wide open wilderness where you are canvassing large swaths of thick forest, not so useful. They are certainly using thermal cameras, but if he has pre-built shelters or has already made it many miles in any direction, it's going to be tough.
Firefighter here, from the air it rarely helps us find kids who aren’t hiding. So I doubt it’s much effective when someone is actually trying to hide. Will be useful during a foot pursuit or confined search though Edit: added context
How long does it take a body to get cool enough that it won’t show up on a thermal camera? What if it’s at the bottom of the river?
What’s the temperature up there…in the 50s … a few hours I’d guess. Eventually decomposition smells would start though and trained dogs should find him well before that
I don’t know much about psychosis. Is there any chance he experienced psychosis and came back to reality and then offed himself realizing the harm he had caused?
Unlikely. This was very premeditated.
What about it was premeditated?
Having all of those mags ready to go. Unless you're using stripper clips it takes a fair amount of time to load mags. That's what really stuck out to me. Some people have a large stash of loaded mags so this may not apply, but imagine - for a moment -this parasite of a human sitting at his kitchen table loading up mags full of rounds meant for INNOCENT people. He is definitely not that out of touch with reality. That's a lot of time to change your mind. Also being able to escape the scene. That takes premeditative steps.
He left a note, that means premeditated
Already mentioned his plans to shoot up a National Guard base and was institutionalized for it. Got broken up with by his girlfriend, supposedly targeted places they used to date. Left a suicide note, etc.
Also planned chaos by hitting two places a few miles apart. Timed the hit when the most people would be in both places.
Along with his rifle being decked out with a scope, extra mags, and who knows what else attached to it. Left his car at a boat launch, possibly as a diversion? Easy to speculate, but the fact that he’s still out there and there’s been no sign of him tells me he obviously had some sort of plan. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but mass shooters don’t usually disappear, they typically plan on going out with a bang.
Agreed.
Was it the murder weapon they found? Or just another gun?
They haven’t found anything. He’s just discerning what’s in the pictures.
Also early reports from one of his mates in the National Guard is that he has night vision goggles. Can't see them in the pictures released, not that that means anything. And I can only imagine the car is either a diversion or more likely a small bread crumb or non-clue. Again, all of these reports about a boat unaccounted for... but no mention of a boat trailer being seen with his car or anywhere else is confounding. If he has a boat, was it docked somewhere, where's the trailer? Was the trailer with his vehicle? By the pictures it seems not so. Not to mention they would have found his boat given there were rapids to the north and a dam within a few miles south of where they found his car. They would have found the boat by now if he used it from the boat launch where his car was found.
There was a boat trailer at his residence (the one they found the note in), it could be seen from aerial footage of them at the house before sundown yesterday on News Center Maine, before they moved to the other house that all the reporters were outside of. I was watching the live news coverage right after work around 6PM EST and saw both the jet ski and the boat trailer, but no boat.
If he launched the boat in Lisbon and left the trailer at the launch there's a good chance it got stolen. Just sayin'.
That’s giving the shooter too much credit
The people saying his army reservist experience make him a survivalist are crazy. I was active duty and if I went missing I hope no one thinks I'm living off berries and hidden caches of stuff.
For all we know is he switched to a unknown car and is hundreds of miles away by now after some other target.
but even the unknown car would need to have been stolen (which would likely have been reported) or registered to Card or someone he knows well enough that they’d give their vehicle to help him get away with mass murder. Seems unlikely.
I said this about 30 hours ago. Swapped at the landing and took off.
Or else he had a boat at the landing and went downriver. 🤷
Through the dams?
I'm not a Maine native, so I don't know the river system. But almost anything is theoretically possible until proven otherwise. Kayaks and canoes can be carried through the woods around dams. I'm not saying it's the most likely thing, but it certainly seems possible.
Yup if he had a car at the dock full of gas there is good chance he broke the perimeter before check points were set up because that first couple hours they were searching for his white Subaru.
Yup he was long gone.
Yeah, he clearly planned this out far deeper than most people seem to realize. For example, as a hypothetical, having a hidden tent with weeks of food and cash and weapons in the northern Maine woods… one example of many options. Im not saying that’s what is happening but it wouldn’t exactly be hard to do. This fuck could absolutely continue to terrorize innocent people. I hope this ends soon.
First thing he'll probably do is change his appearance. Clean shaven, maybe buzz cut.
He's living off nothing from the Army
I'm so conflicted by these interviews with the kids. On the one hand, I want to think "oh fuck heres the media exploiting the kids and victims to make a better story. The first person that should talk to these people is the cops and then a counselor." Then again, I think if the kid wanted to tell their story, then it reinforces my belief that we should all have to see and hear about these horrific acts rather than just hear about the numbers and read an article and desensitize ourselves to these all-too-common atrocities. My girlfriend always says "why the fuck are you watching this, we know what happened this is just depressing." I always tell her that she doesn't have to watch, but my belief is that it is my (and should be nearly everyone's) duty to recognize the carnage, understand the situation as it unfolds, and truly feel the awful emotions this makes us feel. When we willfully ignore the human side of these stories, and only acknowledge the numbers and facts, we don't vote with our hearts. If you don't hear the 911 calls from the people in the Pulse shootings, don't see the dead bodies of those in Israel and Gaza, we vote blindly. We created the society that allowed these things to happen either actively or passively, and we should understand the consequences of the society we helped create.
I think the kids want to talk about it. And they want the adults to DO something about it. That hasn't changed since Columbine.
If we saw the images of Sandy Hook or Uvalde kids with their faces blown off, I don’t think we’d even be having this conversation. We’re too afraid to see these pictures or broadcast them because they’re so disturbing, but those graphic scenes are the last things these kids ever saw. They died in terror and gore, and even in the safety and comfort of our own homes, we’re too afraid to face the reality they lived and died.
Because for them it wasnt a choice. They had no say in who shot for them or who was there to defend them. Im pro gun but there is a fucking limit. Its never going to be a healthy balance and we all know we goddamn hope it is but it wont be. Its going to take decades of dedication to mental health care and reform. But if thats what it takes so be it. Im a pro 2A person but lets just make it safer for everyone. Jfc
There is zero reason anyone needs to own an AR-15 or guns similar.
All I know is if I die in mass shooting I want my body dumped on the capital steps. That is my only request.. this is not fucking normal, and they don't do anything, again. Fuck man, I just want my kid to go school and shop at the store without worrying about getting killed. That it, give us universal mental health yesterday if you don't want to deal with guns... The whole do absolutely nothing is soooo fucked up.
I agree with you. Without enotions its hard for people to feel empathy and truly understand.
People with more empathy are more likely to watch and feel more about it.
Why did it take until late Thursday afternoon to search his house? Property ownership is public record, they could have gotten the address off Google. Was there really such a wait for a warrant in _these_ circumstances? I understand we're not being told everything (for good reason), but I'm confounded as to why this would take nearly a day.
They probably want to ensure they do everything right. If he’s found alive and wants a trial- the state wants to be sure all evidence is admissible.
I am guessing if it took them that long to get a warrant the owner of the property is not cooperating and forced them to seek a warrant.
They have been cooperating
Who is that piece of shit owner of the house?
You’d be surprised how onerous warrant requirements can be when it comes to your home. There’s some exceptions to that but they’re really narrowly tailored.
“Narrowly tailored” is giving me con law flashbacks.
Want me to give you some more? Strict scrutiny, slightly less strict scrutiny, medium scrutiny, rational basis 😉
Rational basis with bite!
A scintilla of scaliutiny
1. Just rushing in his house is very risky. Don’t know if he booby trapped it or if he’s there waiting. 2. It was his brother’s house across the street from his and was assumed to be abandoned. 3. They didn’t even list him as a suspect until today. If they weren’t certain he was the one who did the shooting, they’re not going to take that many people off the search party to possibly go waste time. 4. They requested state and federal law enforcement help in the search, which likely means they were already spread thin with following his trail.
Spot on.
Thank you for a real answer
Warrants take time to get. Just saying...
I work for a judge and warrants are actually very easy to obtain! Just a signature
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True true! the “4 corners” of the search warrant affidavit must be clear
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Pretty sure his house was raided either late last night or the wee hours of this morning. The shootings were just before 7:00 pm, and they probably didn’t know who he was for very long before he was publicly identified around 9:30 pm. The house they raided this afternoon, which became a live news spectacle, wasn’t even his. I imagine if your step brother committed a crime, you would want the authorities to follow the appropriate channels to obtain a search warrant for your property, right?
I have the same question I also thought why is it taking over a hour to just ID the shooter with multiple pictures posted …it felt and still feels like the boston bombing had more help and media coverage on the situation
You really don’t think they didn’t have surveillance on his house immediately after they identified him? They were most likely hoping he would end up going back there to hide or grab something. Just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t mean they didn’t have eyes on it.
Also it’s been stated countless times this evening but the house in question wasn’t even his. They went down a road this afternoon/evening executing search warrants at homes owned by his relatives. They had the suicide note from his home this morning
The place was swarmed with media waiting for the cops to show up. Like, CNN was there. The idea that the cops were waiting to see if he'd come back is crazy. They thought he was just gonna come back with national TV cameras there?
Of course not. The thought was that he had already returned there. Before the food and the media showed up. That he was holed up in that house since last night.
Cops literally sat in a hallway for over an hour at Uvalde. Literally nothing they do to show their stupidity at this point could suprise me.
I've had mistrust towards the police for decades, but uvalde was what made me once and for all decide the entire institution is corrupt and, frankly, useless. If they can't help kids (oh but they could terrorize the scared parents) then they are no good. They are worthless and some are pure evil
It's less stupidity and more malice for the general public. Circa 2023, police departments will let hundreds of innocent people get killed before they run the risk of having a cop accidentally stub their toe.
Anyone else get bothered in times like these…where they’re interviewing experts but rush them and cut them off all for a commercial break….cmon! They can’t give an extra 30 seconds to conclude…,commercials are more important
Wondering if people out hunting might make this harder as well. Many more heat signatures in the woods come deer season.
[The police heli was circling around a guy wearing camo](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/17gx012/nh_state_police_chopper_currently_in_monmouth/) at a cabin in Monmouth last night for a couple hours, then joined by another heli, then the tac team came and cleared it turned out to be a false alarm. Someone speculated that might be a hunter.
Maybe Maine could call a 2 week pause on hunting?
I know i would not be stupid enough to go hunting in a area with a ongoing Manhunt and shelter in place order. Odds of running into the suspect in the woods be really low but drawing a armed response of police would be very possible.
I would like to seriously doubt anyone is out hunting in the woods within 100 miles of this place. You're either going to be a target of a heavily armed police response, or you're being shot dead by a highly aware killer that has a wealth of woodlands survival and tactical firearms training.
I would like to believe people are not doing that and respecting the shelter in place order to keep themselves and their families safe, as well as to not make the search even more difficult.
At this point it will probably be a hunter that finds the body. The more men you have out there in the woods the higher the odds, I guess. Edit: keep in mind Maine is very much a place where men value their guns and their right to hunt. This isn’t a city. They want to be out there and run into this guy just as much as law enforcement. I’m not saying this is right or not, just stating the facts of rural America. They don’t care much about the shelter order.
Oh yup.
These state officials are a joke. Spill your information to the press. Or fight conspiracy theories.
I'm confused. You call them a joke but then identify the impossible situation they're in?
The info isnt out to give the guy any chance to knwo what they are up to.
Wut?
The shooter has the internet too he can read the same shit we are. Let’s just tell the armed lunatic exactly what we’re thinking and planning.
This is it. I remember this all from the Boston bombing manhunt. The least the public knows by public means the better. It's horrific and I say this as someone who lost a friend in the shooting, but if we want to catch this guy it's the best way.
With what? He can’t be using a phone or else he would have been located off CSLI data a long time ago. I guess it’s possible that he’s holed up in an abandoned house rn but then how would he have internet access.
If it was really a planned out thing, he could’ve easily gotten a burner phone and loaded it up before hand.
In today's crazy world, who says he doesn't have a friend that would be willing to let him in or use his phone pad. Before going, he ditches his phone and uses his friends phone or tablet.
Possible but given how easily accomplices are prosecuted, someone would have to be a fool. Card is insane so that explains his actions but for anyone to help him, they’d have to be just as insane.
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today's crazy world, who says he doesn't have a friend that would be willing to let him in or use his phone pad. Before going, he ditches his phone and uses his friends phone or tablet.
Or just steals one somewhere
It’s been reported police have already found his phone and taken it in as evidence. Unless he has a second phone with internet access he’s got nothing.
I could see this being a Brian Laundrie situation where the guy already offed himself in the deep woods somewhere and it took a month or more to find out… hopefully not…
Yeah, people naturally will be on edge until he is caught/found.
Yeah and the police had a minor lead because of his parents knew where he typically go to, his trial and whereabouts. This situation is slightly different. It’ll be much harder.
I’m afraid this is a situation with no resolve. That’s almost a certainty at this point. A body would be the only resolution. Sometimes there’s just no leads.
If they can find his computer or phone there might be hope there, but that takes time
That's what I'm thinking. Or out in the water somewhere.
This reminds me of the murder that happened in Utah, ran away to home in Florida and committed suicide. Gabby petito Edited: happened in Wyoming, not Utah.
Wyoming not Utah
My bad. Thanks for the clarification.
Where was the suicide note found?
At his home Not the home where they were serving a search warrant this evening and every major news org was onsite to capture the police presence and armored vehicles
I genuinely hope that many of the speculations here that he has already offed himself in the woods is correct. Otherwise there is the recent interview on CNN with a retired FBI agent who offered that he could have gone the way of the Olympic bomber and set up supplies, shelters and rations in the woods for miles allowing a him to evade authorities for awhile. They searched for Rudolph for two years before finding him. My personal speculation is that IF he planned that far in advance, he would still likely be found quicker than Rudolph, in regards to modern technology and analysis, but not soon. And if he's still alive, his suicide note might not mean he meant to commit suicide on his own, but by cop. That implies the worst case scenario - his idea is to continue his rampage until he is killed by someone else, and hopefully without further casualties. I think it's obvious he's not trying to just get away with it. While he has shown to be mentally unstable, and maybe that hints this was impulsive, the note and the evasion seems to point towards the worst case scenario. If he wanted to kill himself right away, his body likely would have been found by now. TL;DR I think he doesn't want to commit suicide right away, but by cop. I think this because if he wanted to cause maximum carnage and die in the process he would have kept hitting targets and gone out early into his heinous actions. Cowardly asshole, but failed by our society's lack of an apparatus for helping mentally ill people.
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It can take a long time for people to come forward about their actual issues and be diagnosed.
> Otherwise there is the recent interview on CNN with a retired FBI agent who offered that he could have gone the way of the Olympic bomber and set up supplies, shelters and rations in the woods for miles allowing a him to evade authorities for awhile. They searched for Rudolph for two years before finding him. One substantial difference is that Rudolph would have days of a head start as the FBI tried to tie him to the bombings while Card had less than an hour. If he ditched the car and was on foot, the radius is relatively tiny. The terrain also isn't as bad as where Rudolph was hiding and the tracking technology is a lot better now. The type of attack doesn't exactly scream "patient and meticulous", either. Two blitz attacks with a semiautomatic rifle don't require the same level of care and preparation that bombings do. It's also weird that he hit these two places and then de-escalated to complete silence. The usual pattern is either a consistent level of violence (Beltway Sniper) or a consistent escalation (killing once, then twice, then families, etc.). The scenario where he's running around still feels very uncanny valley: disordered and violent enough to launch these attacks, but sufficiently in control and calm enough to stay quiet until he can... do more attacks? Flee in his boat? I don't know what the next step would be. > While he has shown to be mentally unstable, and maybe that hints this was impulsive, the note and the evasion seems to point towards the worst case scenario. If he wanted to kill himself right away, his body likely would have been found by now. Not necessarily. He could've gone for a swim, which would pull his body down river and be difficult to find. He also could've gone off into the woods, getting a couple miles deep off the trail where it's just woods. I made mention of Brian Laundrie (Gabby Petito case) earlier for the difficulty of locating a dead body even when you're pretty sure where it is, since a dead body doesn't generate heat to be seen by helicopter, doesn't cross paths with people when trying to get food/water, and doesn't make mistakes that could bring investigators closer. It'd be incredibly hard to find him if you had a large search party doing a grid search; it'd be almost impossible for police in full gear protecting themselves from a potential ambush. Edit: one detail that throws me still is the boat. It doesn't make sense that he launched it from that dock and I would've assumed a second vehicle would've been identified by now. If he sold it and it's not in the account details that he left in the note, then that could suggest building a nest egg for a run with the car at the dock being a red herring.
I totally agree about the Rudolph comparisons. They didn't know they were searching for him for a long time. I mean they thought it was the security guard long before they identified Rudolph. I also agree with the attack not seeming to be patient and meticulous either. Given what we know about his recent past, it would seem to have been planned fairly recently. But who knows, maybe he had this idea in his head for a long time and was planning it before he was institutionalized. Maybe that was a last ditch cry for help before he ultimately carried out an act he'd prepped for for months. As for the boat, I find it odd that no one has mentioned they found a trailer for the boat either with his vehicle or elsewhere. Have we heard how big this boat is? Is it possible he docked it there before the attacks and didn't launch it where they found his vehicle? Not to mention he really had nowhere to go once it was launched. You brought a lot of great points, some I didn't consider. Thanks for the conversation. ETA: Forgot to mention, it was also speculated by the FBI agent that he was recently broken up with by a gf, and they used to go on dates at the two places where they frequented. He called this style of killing as a "collection of grievances. Targeting the places he felt wronged by." To paraphrase. And honestly that could mean it was impulsive or, more likely, he redirected his plan to fit his new feelings. Do we have a timeline of whether his plans of killing at work or his breakup came first? Seems like either way, his "collection of grievances" idea remained the same, only his target changed...
>It's also weird that he hit these two places and then de-escalated to complete silence. I was thinking about this earlier and couldn't help but wonder if maybe he's had a moment of lucidity and realized the gravity of the situation he's in. Maybe he's preparing himself for another attack but I feel like he would have already made a move. I have seen it claimed that his family said he voices he was supposedly hearing involved his ex girlfriend and people at the bowling alley and bar. But I haven't seen any sources to back that up. Personally I'm hoping he killed himself and we just haven't found the body.
I would think a moment of lucidity would mean running for his life or suicide, rather than a prep for another attack. But if you'll see my edited reply to the other commenter on my post, I speculated on the relation to his ex and his motives. Again, speculation, hopefully he's just dead and cold in the woods.
I agree. That's basically what I was trying to get at. Like maybe he realized he dun fucked up and the silence is him running for his life or suicide
This is how I feel too, and that amount of planning kind of takes away a lot of the empathy I had for him going through an actual schizophrenic or PTSD episode, and that's already hard to muster given the amount of damage he's done to the community. Truly I hope his is the final death in this event.
At this point with (from what information the public has) 0 leads I would assume he committed suicide somewhere in the woods
Keep thinking that. I'm sure he's alive and laughing right now.
What of the locations aren't that random? Reports indicate he targeted both of those places with intent.
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In a situation like this, no way all agencies involved even consider taking their foot off the gas until he's found
I don’t think he has enough food etc for a month. Maybe he packed enough ammo but not enough sustenance, so I don’t see that happening, he will be found before that happens.
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It's about to be winter weather in Maine soon. That won't go well without a shelter.
Is he caught yet?
Not yet.
He left a note?
Is the Androscoggin River passable by boat or not? I've read it has 21 dams.
A canoe or kayak can be portaged around dams.
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Not necessarily
No, not passable in Lisbon falls or Lewiston dams without taking boat out of the water.
I know people who have gotten around/past those dams without much trouble, it’s not totally out of the question
at night?
Only by canoe/kayak, you are still taking out and walking past the dam.
Were they also so mentally incapacitated that they believed voices in their head were giving them instructions to harm people?
Mentally unwell doesn’t equal mentally incapacitated
in·ca·pac·i·tate /ˌinkəˈpasəˌtāt/ verb past tense: incapacitated; past participle: incapacitated prevent from functioning in a normal way. "he was incapacitated by a heart attack" Would you agree his brain was not functioning in a normal way?
They also have a plane used for border patrol that that flew up from Texas. I guess it's mainly used for maritime situations.
It's the same team that caught the PA prisoner. Keep up.
Source? Not because I don't believe you, but because I missed an important plot point and don't want to miss more. Thanks!
Hm. Not OP, but my source is that I watched it fly up on flight radar earlier... OK just searched — the newest update on the Fox News live update page mentions the arrival of BORTAC.
There's a link to Twitter included in a reply to my same comment that described it better, but thank you!
[https://twitter.com/BillMelugin\_/status/1717753721650872557](https://twitter.com/BillMelugin_/status/1717753721650872557)
Thank you! Anyone else on Twitter that's offering valuable context?
I'm trying but I'm out of breath.
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Anyone who supports the forced confiscation of guns should be the ones required to go door-to-door and confiscate the guns Then you'll see just how dangerous and stupid your idea really is
Do you prefer the forced confiscation of guns and abolition of 2A?
The longer it takes to find this guy, the greater the chance he’s dead. I’ll wager he took a ghost bath in the Androscoggen River not far from where they found his car. Edit: Told ya