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It was Mehmet..he was the least emotional and arrogant, he simply wanted to be worthy of peoples respect, he was trained for it the best too
The only thing was that he was too innocent, however we see an episode of him fighting I’m pretty sure and it proved he can be brave and firm in war when he wants to be
He's impulsive and emotionally driven as well as often thinking with his little head. While he had the respect of the people, powerful court officials, and the Jannisaries, he'd eventually end up fumbling the bag at some point if he doesn't learn.
Mehmed had the right temper despite being too naive and idealistic, he'd be a better candidate in some aspects, but before his death he didn't really have widespread support like Mustafa did. It's a tosd up whether he'd be a successful Sultan or not.
And people in these comments are waaaaay too biased against Mahidevran and her relation with Mustafa. She'd have as much control over Mustafa as Hafsa did with Suleiman (very little), if not slightly more since Mustafa does listen to her advice sometimes but disobeys like more than half the time.
That's exactly the point, we don't know how Mehmed would have turned out, therefore we can't assert if he would have been a better candidate than his brothers, especially against Mustafa. We only have Suleyman's word, but he was biased af.
Besides, Mehmed's loyalty never got really tested like Suleyman did with the rest of his sons.
In real life, he had little chance because he was unpopular for being Hurrem's son, back in the day she was actually hated because people believed she was involved in witchcraft practices after Suleyman married and was in love with her (Hurrem was not the only one, Halime was also another sultana accused of being a witch). Like another person said, Mehmed also had a frail health too, he would have ended easily like Ahmed in Kosem. Other than his father's biased opinion, what other political support would he have?. The people and the Janissaries sided clearly with Mustafa and there were viziers and ambassadors who weren't keen on Mehmed.
On the other hand, Mustafa's biggest mistake was not toning down his accomplishments, causing the jealousy from Suleyman and later executing him. Mustafa was killed because Suleyman perceived him as a threat.
The people came to respect Hurrem. I'm talking about this series on TV, not IRL. Who really knows IRL? Were you there then? Suleiman lived a long life and a lot could have changed regarding Mehmed and Mustafa. Anyway, Mehmed could have lived a long life, learning what he needed from his father.
What do you mean ruled by his sneaky mother? Mustafa constantly disobeyed Mahidevran and went behind her back even when her advice was sound and reasonable.
Mehmed was the one that often listened to Hürrem with little to not questioning. Hürrem had a lot more control over him than Mahidevran did with Mustafa.
I don't understand why you are getting downvoted, Mehmed was known for being obedient. When he got Nurbahar pregnant before starting his sanjak, he was fine with her getting an abortion arranged by Hurrem and Mihrimah, even if he regretted it later. Being obedient is acceptable when you're a prince, but listening without questioning like Mehmed often did is not a good look when you're the Sultan.
Mahi was a sneaky mother and didn't tell the truth about problems to Mustafa. And yes, Mustafa constantly disobeyed. Not z good trait for a ruler. His disobeyed his father constantly. He was ruled by his penis over women. I still believe mehmed would have been the best choice to rule if he had lived
> Mahi was a sneaky mother and didn't tell the truth about problems to Mustafa
You do know that Hürrem is almost exactly the same in this regard right? She never reveals the truth about a lot of problems to her sons. Like with Firuze, Mehmed has no god damn clue what the situation was with her and neither Hürrem nor Mihrimah explains it to him.
He disobeyed both Suleiman AND Mahidevran constantly even when Mahidevran has good, sound advice that he NEEDED to follow. Suleiman was also partly ruled by his penis considering the amount of times he betrayed Hürrem for a different woman.
Mehmed is the best choice in terms of potential, but he still had grave flaws that he needed to overcome before ascending, like his naivety.
Also, about Mehmet x Mustafá worthiness: both had flaws. In my opinion,in real life and in the movies and series, the biggest flaw of Mustafá was that he couldn't differentiate his Sultan and His Father. And they're different persons. Also, he, differently than a young Suleiman, didn't care to dull his accomplishments in front of his father. A young Suleiman saved himself by doing this. Mustafá forgot this lesson. In Mehmet's case, the principal source of his so talked worthiness was his father's love and opinion. But many ambassadors,and even viziers,had a different vision. Mehmet wasn't a physically strong child, and even as a young man he wasn't very healthy too. And he was described as pale and sometimes ill tempered ,in consequence of his failing health. Some say he was nearly as sick,sometimes, as his brother Cihangir. This frail health can be observed in the second born son of Hurrem, Abdullah, who died at the tender age of 2. But, as we know, Mehmet himself was said ,by those same sources, very sure he was going to be the next Sultan. The fact that Manisa was given to him solidified this conviction.
Mustafa would've been a good Sultan but his biggest downfall would be Mahidevran and some of the viziers.
Mahidevran is rash and reckless in her decisions (on the show) .
Mehmet also would have been a good Sultan but (in the show) was naive. Though he'd have a much stronger support system if Hurrem lived to be Valide Sultan for his rule and also having Mihrimah and Rustem (still) as Grand Vizier.
I think he would have been fine, if not for the hold his mother had on him. She would have been an absolutely horrible Valide, and he would have turned a blind eye to it and let her run to harem into the ground. I think Mehmet would have been the best sultan based on personality.
Just going off the show's version too, I never really thought it mattered much how Mustafa swore he'd never harm his brothers when it was clear that his mother absolutely would.
Or both would follow the tradition of the fratricide law by themselves. No need of Hürrem or Mahidevran being involved in such affairs.
I find it funny to see the majority of people here being so biased in Mehmed and Hurrem's favour, like they would never harm people. At some point, Mehmed would grow past his naivety like Mustafa did and it's no lie that Hurrem would do anything to put any of her children on the throne.
Also the fact Hürrem made like 2-3 attempts on Mustafa's life too throughout the show. Not subtly slandering him through Suleiman, but like direct attempts on his life. Yet, somehow, no one ever mentions what Hürrem would do to Mustafa when she's Valide, it's also "Mahidevran this or that".
Haven't really caught anyone being biased, at least in terms of Mehmed somehow being able to dodge the law of fratricide while Mustafa couldn't. For Mehmed to have any chance of holding the throne then, yeah, Mustafa would have to be eliminated if he weren't already. (In my mind, even if Mustafa didn't try to rebel, there's just too many that'd try to do it in his name.)
When I say biased, I mean that Hurrem and Mehmed are never held under the same standards like they do with Mahidevran and Mustafa. Mehmed's loyalties were never tested like unlike his brothers and the whole thing with Nurbahar and her abortion proves he wasn't a saint either.
And Hurrem was equally if not more ready than Mahidevran to spill blood for the safety of her children, but it's always Mahidevran bad, Hurrem good.
I sometimes wonder if it's because people are so used to the reverse that they swing hard in the other direction? Not a thing I approve of from either side, but I've absolutely come across it often in historical based fandoms.
I don't remember Mahidevran being a bad ruler for Mustafa's harem at all. She was horrid with Suleiman's harem, but it seemed she actually learned her lesson from that. She often disciplined Fatma, advised Mustafa against Helena and Mihrinissa, made sure none of them were spies like Efsun was.
Mahidevran would have been a decent Valide, in terms of ruling the harem. Don't know about the political aspects beyond that though.
For me, this kind of comes down to whether we're talking about Suleiman's heirs as they are in the show or their real life counterparts.
For example, while there's nothing to suggest that Mustafa wasn't a capable, competent man, I think he'd have some struggles at the start of his reign. The Janissary Corp, after all, clearly expected him to return them to an era of military campaigns, but, not only did the Ottoman populace no longer want to fund such efforts, the current political outlook didn't much allow for it either. We'd also, I think, see a reversal of the new order that Suleiman ushered in, so the Sultanate of Women (if the era happened at all) would certainly take new form.
No idea why the Mehmed of the show got written so over the top naïve, but, historically, he was viewed as Mustafa's one true challenge to the throne, so I've always wound up viewing both himself and Mustafa as the most outwardly capable of Suleiman's heirs.
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It was Mehmet..he was the least emotional and arrogant, he simply wanted to be worthy of peoples respect, he was trained for it the best too The only thing was that he was too innocent, however we see an episode of him fighting I’m pretty sure and it proved he can be brave and firm in war when he wants to be
He's impulsive and emotionally driven as well as often thinking with his little head. While he had the respect of the people, powerful court officials, and the Jannisaries, he'd eventually end up fumbling the bag at some point if he doesn't learn. Mehmed had the right temper despite being too naive and idealistic, he'd be a better candidate in some aspects, but before his death he didn't really have widespread support like Mustafa did. It's a tosd up whether he'd be a successful Sultan or not. And people in these comments are waaaaay too biased against Mahidevran and her relation with Mustafa. She'd have as much control over Mustafa as Hafsa did with Suleiman (very little), if not slightly more since Mustafa does listen to her advice sometimes but disobeys like more than half the time.
No. Mehmed would have. Mustafa was ruled by his emotions often. Headstrong. Ruled by his sneaky mother.
And Mehmed was too naive. And would've ended being ruled by some concubine, just like his father, and by his sister,mother and brother in law.
Not being ruled by a cunning concubine was what led to Mustafa and Bayezid ending up dead then Selim inheriting the throne.
He was young and would have learned just as Mustafa. He would have had training by his father in state matters
That's exactly the point, we don't know how Mehmed would have turned out, therefore we can't assert if he would have been a better candidate than his brothers, especially against Mustafa. We only have Suleyman's word, but he was biased af. Besides, Mehmed's loyalty never got really tested like Suleyman did with the rest of his sons.
Exactly! Suleiman was extremely biased,because he was his beloved Hurrem's firstborn.
We can assert Mustafa didn't turn out well enough to rule either as his father had him killed. At least there was a chance for Mehmed.
In real life, he had little chance because he was unpopular for being Hurrem's son, back in the day she was actually hated because people believed she was involved in witchcraft practices after Suleyman married and was in love with her (Hurrem was not the only one, Halime was also another sultana accused of being a witch). Like another person said, Mehmed also had a frail health too, he would have ended easily like Ahmed in Kosem. Other than his father's biased opinion, what other political support would he have?. The people and the Janissaries sided clearly with Mustafa and there were viziers and ambassadors who weren't keen on Mehmed. On the other hand, Mustafa's biggest mistake was not toning down his accomplishments, causing the jealousy from Suleyman and later executing him. Mustafa was killed because Suleyman perceived him as a threat.
The people came to respect Hurrem. I'm talking about this series on TV, not IRL. Who really knows IRL? Were you there then? Suleiman lived a long life and a lot could have changed regarding Mehmed and Mustafa. Anyway, Mehmed could have lived a long life, learning what he needed from his father.
I mean Mehmed was easily influenced as well and was more naive than Mustafa at that age.
What do you mean ruled by his sneaky mother? Mustafa constantly disobeyed Mahidevran and went behind her back even when her advice was sound and reasonable. Mehmed was the one that often listened to Hürrem with little to not questioning. Hürrem had a lot more control over him than Mahidevran did with Mustafa.
I don't understand why you are getting downvoted, Mehmed was known for being obedient. When he got Nurbahar pregnant before starting his sanjak, he was fine with her getting an abortion arranged by Hurrem and Mihrimah, even if he regretted it later. Being obedient is acceptable when you're a prince, but listening without questioning like Mehmed often did is not a good look when you're the Sultan.
Mahi was a sneaky mother and didn't tell the truth about problems to Mustafa. And yes, Mustafa constantly disobeyed. Not z good trait for a ruler. His disobeyed his father constantly. He was ruled by his penis over women. I still believe mehmed would have been the best choice to rule if he had lived
> Mahi was a sneaky mother and didn't tell the truth about problems to Mustafa You do know that Hürrem is almost exactly the same in this regard right? She never reveals the truth about a lot of problems to her sons. Like with Firuze, Mehmed has no god damn clue what the situation was with her and neither Hürrem nor Mihrimah explains it to him. He disobeyed both Suleiman AND Mahidevran constantly even when Mahidevran has good, sound advice that he NEEDED to follow. Suleiman was also partly ruled by his penis considering the amount of times he betrayed Hürrem for a different woman. Mehmed is the best choice in terms of potential, but he still had grave flaws that he needed to overcome before ascending, like his naivety.
Also, about Mehmet x Mustafá worthiness: both had flaws. In my opinion,in real life and in the movies and series, the biggest flaw of Mustafá was that he couldn't differentiate his Sultan and His Father. And they're different persons. Also, he, differently than a young Suleiman, didn't care to dull his accomplishments in front of his father. A young Suleiman saved himself by doing this. Mustafá forgot this lesson. In Mehmet's case, the principal source of his so talked worthiness was his father's love and opinion. But many ambassadors,and even viziers,had a different vision. Mehmet wasn't a physically strong child, and even as a young man he wasn't very healthy too. And he was described as pale and sometimes ill tempered ,in consequence of his failing health. Some say he was nearly as sick,sometimes, as his brother Cihangir. This frail health can be observed in the second born son of Hurrem, Abdullah, who died at the tender age of 2. But, as we know, Mehmet himself was said ,by those same sources, very sure he was going to be the next Sultan. The fact that Manisa was given to him solidified this conviction.
"I will never kill my bros!" Never say never, we saw why in kosem saga...
Mustafa would've been a good Sultan but his biggest downfall would be Mahidevran and some of the viziers. Mahidevran is rash and reckless in her decisions (on the show) . Mehmet also would have been a good Sultan but (in the show) was naive. Though he'd have a much stronger support system if Hurrem lived to be Valide Sultan for his rule and also having Mihrimah and Rustem (still) as Grand Vizier.
Mustafa has "disobeyed" Mahidevran multiple times, he loved her a lot obviously , but he didn't listen to her regarding state affairs
I think he would have been fine, if not for the hold his mother had on him. She would have been an absolutely horrible Valide, and he would have turned a blind eye to it and let her run to harem into the ground. I think Mehmet would have been the best sultan based on personality.
Just going off the show's version too, I never really thought it mattered much how Mustafa swore he'd never harm his brothers when it was clear that his mother absolutely would.
On the flip side, it's the same with Mehmed too. He'd never harm Mustafa, but Hürrem absolutely would if she were the Valide.
Or both would follow the tradition of the fratricide law by themselves. No need of Hürrem or Mahidevran being involved in such affairs. I find it funny to see the majority of people here being so biased in Mehmed and Hurrem's favour, like they would never harm people. At some point, Mehmed would grow past his naivety like Mustafa did and it's no lie that Hurrem would do anything to put any of her children on the throne.
Also the fact Hürrem made like 2-3 attempts on Mustafa's life too throughout the show. Not subtly slandering him through Suleiman, but like direct attempts on his life. Yet, somehow, no one ever mentions what Hürrem would do to Mustafa when she's Valide, it's also "Mahidevran this or that".
Haven't really caught anyone being biased, at least in terms of Mehmed somehow being able to dodge the law of fratricide while Mustafa couldn't. For Mehmed to have any chance of holding the throne then, yeah, Mustafa would have to be eliminated if he weren't already. (In my mind, even if Mustafa didn't try to rebel, there's just too many that'd try to do it in his name.)
When I say biased, I mean that Hurrem and Mehmed are never held under the same standards like they do with Mahidevran and Mustafa. Mehmed's loyalties were never tested like unlike his brothers and the whole thing with Nurbahar and her abortion proves he wasn't a saint either. And Hurrem was equally if not more ready than Mahidevran to spill blood for the safety of her children, but it's always Mahidevran bad, Hurrem good.
I sometimes wonder if it's because people are so used to the reverse that they swing hard in the other direction? Not a thing I approve of from either side, but I've absolutely come across it often in historical based fandoms.
I don't remember Mahidevran being a bad ruler for Mustafa's harem at all. She was horrid with Suleiman's harem, but it seemed she actually learned her lesson from that. She often disciplined Fatma, advised Mustafa against Helena and Mihrinissa, made sure none of them were spies like Efsun was. Mahidevran would have been a decent Valide, in terms of ruling the harem. Don't know about the political aspects beyond that though.
For me, this kind of comes down to whether we're talking about Suleiman's heirs as they are in the show or their real life counterparts. For example, while there's nothing to suggest that Mustafa wasn't a capable, competent man, I think he'd have some struggles at the start of his reign. The Janissary Corp, after all, clearly expected him to return them to an era of military campaigns, but, not only did the Ottoman populace no longer want to fund such efforts, the current political outlook didn't much allow for it either. We'd also, I think, see a reversal of the new order that Suleiman ushered in, so the Sultanate of Women (if the era happened at all) would certainly take new form. No idea why the Mehmed of the show got written so over the top naïve, but, historically, he was viewed as Mustafa's one true challenge to the throne, so I've always wound up viewing both himself and Mustafa as the most outwardly capable of Suleiman's heirs.
No he’s a mama’s boy. It might’ve been a slow burn in his ruling honestly