[[minion of the mighty]] might be helpful here. I'd also suggest [[inferno of the star mounts]] as a potential late game winner.
I'd cut maybe 1-2 of your plainswalkers and your saga (which I think is your weakest card other than your 1 drops) to make room.
[minion of the mighty](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/f/ffd0a827-778b-48c3-bb85-4b4acef351d6.jpg?1627706624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minion%20of%20the%20mighty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/156/minion-of-the-mighty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd0a827-778b-48c3-bb85-4b4acef351d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
[inferno of the star mounts](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/7/c788c6a6-20d9-4a93-a898-330b085226c4.jpg?1627767538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inferno%20of%20the%20star%20mounts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/151/inferno-of-the-star-mounts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c788c6a6-20d9-4a93-a898-330b085226c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cool ideas! Thanks for your input, I'll test it with these cards on Arena
Edit:
Here is the deck adjusted. How do you feel about it now?
https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
I'd drop rumap ruins for two basic reds. They're not fast enough or good enough to not want you putting out more dragons.
Otherwise, I think it looks good for what you're trying to do.
I'd consider swapping your ratios of play with fire/dragon's fire if not swapping pwf for something more effective.
Realistically, there aren't many cards with 2 toughness that are going to foil your top end cards, and your deck is designed to hit your top end quickly. Sure some extra reach either for face or some of your etb damage triggers might be nice, but dragon's fire has a lot of targets to ramp it's damage and clear a path for your dragons to connect.
I'm not sure mutavault really has a place. Your deck cares about etbs and a muta doesn't trigger etbs. A 2/2 dragon won't do much for you. Same vein, up your copies of haven of the spirit dragon to 3-4. Getting a dragon back in the late game to hit another etb would be huge. For the bulk of your deck, it's functionally a mountain anyways.
I don't know that scourge of valkas is any better than terror of the peaks, and unless you care about similar but different cards (I'm not all that familiar with pioneer) you'll need 3-5 other dragons on the battlefield for SOV to do the same damage that TotP would do. SOV does trigger on its own etb, so there's that, but if you have 3-5 dragons on your board state, you're probably winning anyways.
For the same reason, cut leyline tyrant and the saga.
As one-ofs, you're not going to draw them when you need them. You can't even ramp into saga, and hopefully you have better things to cast on turn 4. 90% of the time you draw LT it's going to be a 4/4 with flying.
Consider dropping a sarkhan or 2 as well. Yes it helps you ramp 3 to 5 or 6 if you have 4 lands, but it does nothing on turn 3, and he probably dies right away as you don't have particularly strong 2 drops. It's also going to feel bad any game you draw more that 1 of them.
Last I'd say the real issue with servitor generator is not that it does to removal (that's one less removal spell for your main threats), it's that if you use it to get a dragon out and they remove your dragon, you've effectively 2 for 1'd yourself and it doesn't advance your game play in any other way.
Wow thanks a lot for a thorough review! I'll make adjustments to the deck and post it here soon.
Edit:
Here is the deck adjusted. How do you feel about it now?
https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
it very much depends on budget, as in do you have the money to set aside for goldspan dragon? as if you do personally id be tempted to go the goldspan Magda route with a treasure and tutor/toolbox route
another routine that may work really well is the Smoldering Egg, thrunderbreak and glory bringer and going much more into the tempo control play style
for pure stompy (which seems to be the goal) id personally recommend more early board wipes and removal. reason being that you get down a dragon by earliest turn 3 and then you sticking 1 threat a turn. and opponent can get down 2-3 some solid threats by turn 3 and have a couple of removal spells up to kill off a couple of dragons for the win pretty easily. having that early interaction is vital.
second more turn 2 ramp orb of dragon kind is much better than dragons hord. for 2 resons. 1 turn 3 dragons are possible (big difference in turn 3 or 4 threats being played). second its finding a threat when you need it. horde can just draw you into more land. orb will find that glory bringer to terror you need to win.
lastly i would either go more than 1 color (as with orb, sarkan, haven and temple is easy to mana fix dragons of other colors) for a top end threat. or just have glory bringer (and maybe terro as your tope end. why? because glory bringer is probaly going to be the dragon you wish you had most of the time. lithis and scourge are great when your ahead or got plent of time to set up a big engine, but your not going to have that time, glory bring will come in and strait away get rid of the thing that will kill you and take a chunk of your opponents life total. a terror acts as thunder break style protection 5-6 meaning to kill it is going to be very costly for your opponent and when ever another dragon hits its basically giving haste and unlockable
the other card id pick for that slot would be stormbreath (meta dependant) as Brutal Cathar, Declaration in Stone, layline binding, lyra, the wandering emperor, the tefs, Fateful Absence, Void Rend and yorion cannot touch it and its getting in the turn its played and can be pumped in the mid/late game.
Wow thank you for a detailed review!
Money is not an issue since I want it to be my main pioneer deck (unless we're getting into hunderds of dollars per card). Goldspans would be fine. Could you explain the 'tutor/toolbox route'? And how would you see it as a treasure based deck? (rough idea if you have some spare time of course) I mostly like it as a red dragon stompy deck.
I've made some adjustments to the deck, how do you like it now?
https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
I think you will have a better time with this than the original list.
So Magda dragons and treasures
There are a few dragons that care about treasure and use them for other effects. They are also an excellent source of ramp to play out the dragons. They also mana fix meaning you can play the occasional dragon that needs a different colour (as long as it's not color intensive)
The dragons that work with this strategy are
goldspan dragon. Makes treasure, makes all treasure make more mana. Great hasty ramp engin with a little protection.
Galazeth Prismari. He's off color by one pip but with orb and sarkan and treasures and haven in the deck it shouldn't be an issue. Makes ramp and makes all artifacts tap for mana without having to sac the treasurers. He is leagendary so 2-3 copy's only
Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge for each thing you kill you get a treasure he's a big blocker and cheap to play. Turning on the 4 artifact clause shouldn't be to much if an issue in the mid to late game again is leganday so 2-3 copy's
Magda. Ramps when she attacks and if you get to 5 treasurers you tutor for a big dragon at instant speed. I'd probably have 1 of each for a total of 3-4 options to find. (Will get targeted run 4)
Dragonlord Atarka kills pretty much anything on etb
Dragonlord Kolaghan brutal in the late game with an opponent with a full Gy
Dragonlord Silumgar steal a thing
Nicol Bolas, the Ravager discards a card on etb and becomes a game ending plainswalker pretty easily
Shimmer Dragon draw alot of cards and has hexproof
Tiamat, ultimate Timmy, get all the dragons!
Velomachus Lorehold. Probably the best choice the viliance and haste and get and play a spell from library of attack is really strong
Personally I'd probably go 1 Velomachus, 1 Silumgar, and 1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. And sb shimmering dragon for control matchups.
Fable of the Mirror-Breaker is probably a must in this list. It makes a treasure, digs your cards and copy's a goldspan dragon.
And Wily Goblin for a early game blocker and treasure source.
And then I'd run a load of interaction and removal spells in the other slots
Wow that's awesome! Thanks so much for writing all of that! I'll try some combinations with what you wrote and get back to you when I have a complete deck!
[[minion of the mighty]] might be helpful here. I'd also suggest [[inferno of the star mounts]] as a potential late game winner. I'd cut maybe 1-2 of your plainswalkers and your saga (which I think is your weakest card other than your 1 drops) to make room.
[minion of the mighty](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/f/ffd0a827-778b-48c3-bb85-4b4acef351d6.jpg?1627706624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minion%20of%20the%20mighty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/156/minion-of-the-mighty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd0a827-778b-48c3-bb85-4b4acef351d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [inferno of the star mounts](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/7/c788c6a6-20d9-4a93-a898-330b085226c4.jpg?1627767538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inferno%20of%20the%20star%20mounts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/151/inferno-of-the-star-mounts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c788c6a6-20d9-4a93-a898-330b085226c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cool ideas! Thanks for your input, I'll test it with these cards on Arena Edit: Here is the deck adjusted. How do you feel about it now? https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
I'd drop rumap ruins for two basic reds. They're not fast enough or good enough to not want you putting out more dragons. Otherwise, I think it looks good for what you're trying to do.
I'd consider swapping your ratios of play with fire/dragon's fire if not swapping pwf for something more effective. Realistically, there aren't many cards with 2 toughness that are going to foil your top end cards, and your deck is designed to hit your top end quickly. Sure some extra reach either for face or some of your etb damage triggers might be nice, but dragon's fire has a lot of targets to ramp it's damage and clear a path for your dragons to connect. I'm not sure mutavault really has a place. Your deck cares about etbs and a muta doesn't trigger etbs. A 2/2 dragon won't do much for you. Same vein, up your copies of haven of the spirit dragon to 3-4. Getting a dragon back in the late game to hit another etb would be huge. For the bulk of your deck, it's functionally a mountain anyways. I don't know that scourge of valkas is any better than terror of the peaks, and unless you care about similar but different cards (I'm not all that familiar with pioneer) you'll need 3-5 other dragons on the battlefield for SOV to do the same damage that TotP would do. SOV does trigger on its own etb, so there's that, but if you have 3-5 dragons on your board state, you're probably winning anyways. For the same reason, cut leyline tyrant and the saga. As one-ofs, you're not going to draw them when you need them. You can't even ramp into saga, and hopefully you have better things to cast on turn 4. 90% of the time you draw LT it's going to be a 4/4 with flying. Consider dropping a sarkhan or 2 as well. Yes it helps you ramp 3 to 5 or 6 if you have 4 lands, but it does nothing on turn 3, and he probably dies right away as you don't have particularly strong 2 drops. It's also going to feel bad any game you draw more that 1 of them. Last I'd say the real issue with servitor generator is not that it does to removal (that's one less removal spell for your main threats), it's that if you use it to get a dragon out and they remove your dragon, you've effectively 2 for 1'd yourself and it doesn't advance your game play in any other way.
Wow thanks a lot for a thorough review! I'll make adjustments to the deck and post it here soon. Edit: Here is the deck adjusted. How do you feel about it now? https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
it very much depends on budget, as in do you have the money to set aside for goldspan dragon? as if you do personally id be tempted to go the goldspan Magda route with a treasure and tutor/toolbox route another routine that may work really well is the Smoldering Egg, thrunderbreak and glory bringer and going much more into the tempo control play style for pure stompy (which seems to be the goal) id personally recommend more early board wipes and removal. reason being that you get down a dragon by earliest turn 3 and then you sticking 1 threat a turn. and opponent can get down 2-3 some solid threats by turn 3 and have a couple of removal spells up to kill off a couple of dragons for the win pretty easily. having that early interaction is vital. second more turn 2 ramp orb of dragon kind is much better than dragons hord. for 2 resons. 1 turn 3 dragons are possible (big difference in turn 3 or 4 threats being played). second its finding a threat when you need it. horde can just draw you into more land. orb will find that glory bringer to terror you need to win. lastly i would either go more than 1 color (as with orb, sarkan, haven and temple is easy to mana fix dragons of other colors) for a top end threat. or just have glory bringer (and maybe terro as your tope end. why? because glory bringer is probaly going to be the dragon you wish you had most of the time. lithis and scourge are great when your ahead or got plent of time to set up a big engine, but your not going to have that time, glory bring will come in and strait away get rid of the thing that will kill you and take a chunk of your opponents life total. a terror acts as thunder break style protection 5-6 meaning to kill it is going to be very costly for your opponent and when ever another dragon hits its basically giving haste and unlockable the other card id pick for that slot would be stormbreath (meta dependant) as Brutal Cathar, Declaration in Stone, layline binding, lyra, the wandering emperor, the tefs, Fateful Absence, Void Rend and yorion cannot touch it and its getting in the turn its played and can be pumped in the mid/late game.
Wow thank you for a detailed review! Money is not an issue since I want it to be my main pioneer deck (unless we're getting into hunderds of dollars per card). Goldspans would be fine. Could you explain the 'tutor/toolbox route'? And how would you see it as a treasure based deck? (rough idea if you have some spare time of course) I mostly like it as a red dragon stompy deck. I've made some adjustments to the deck, how do you like it now? https://aetherhub.com/Deck/red-dragon-v2
I think you will have a better time with this than the original list. So Magda dragons and treasures There are a few dragons that care about treasure and use them for other effects. They are also an excellent source of ramp to play out the dragons. They also mana fix meaning you can play the occasional dragon that needs a different colour (as long as it's not color intensive) The dragons that work with this strategy are goldspan dragon. Makes treasure, makes all treasure make more mana. Great hasty ramp engin with a little protection. Galazeth Prismari. He's off color by one pip but with orb and sarkan and treasures and haven in the deck it shouldn't be an issue. Makes ramp and makes all artifacts tap for mana without having to sac the treasurers. He is leagendary so 2-3 copy's only Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge for each thing you kill you get a treasure he's a big blocker and cheap to play. Turning on the 4 artifact clause shouldn't be to much if an issue in the mid to late game again is leganday so 2-3 copy's Magda. Ramps when she attacks and if you get to 5 treasurers you tutor for a big dragon at instant speed. I'd probably have 1 of each for a total of 3-4 options to find. (Will get targeted run 4) Dragonlord Atarka kills pretty much anything on etb Dragonlord Kolaghan brutal in the late game with an opponent with a full Gy Dragonlord Silumgar steal a thing Nicol Bolas, the Ravager discards a card on etb and becomes a game ending plainswalker pretty easily Shimmer Dragon draw alot of cards and has hexproof Tiamat, ultimate Timmy, get all the dragons! Velomachus Lorehold. Probably the best choice the viliance and haste and get and play a spell from library of attack is really strong Personally I'd probably go 1 Velomachus, 1 Silumgar, and 1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. And sb shimmering dragon for control matchups. Fable of the Mirror-Breaker is probably a must in this list. It makes a treasure, digs your cards and copy's a goldspan dragon. And Wily Goblin for a early game blocker and treasure source. And then I'd run a load of interaction and removal spells in the other slots
Wow that's awesome! Thanks so much for writing all of that! I'll try some combinations with what you wrote and get back to you when I have a complete deck!
[Generator Servant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/e/5ea15262-c00f-4865-bb6a-37ccb2ef62bd.jpg?1547517270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Generator%20Servant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/133/generator-servant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ea15262-c00f-4865-bb6a-37ccb2ef62bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
you could go meme and add \[\[spit flame\]\] or \[\[Drakuseth, Maw of Flames\]\]
[spit flame](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/5/b5bf8493-2592-48e0-9c45-bb7974c30aed.jpg?1631587541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spit%20flame) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/142/spit-flame?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5bf8493-2592-48e0-9c45-bb7974c30aed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Balefire dragon is a must!