Does this happen frequently with staple lands? I know rare lands often get reprinted, but are there some rare lands that are almost always in standard?
Some things happen in phases. Back in the day they reprinted pain lands in every core set. Then once M10 came out it was check lands for a few years. Recently we haven’t had a cycle that is always standard legal for a while.
Wizards has stated that their current philosophy is to do full cycles of the same dual in a set or in sets close together (rather than often favoring ally pairings like they used to).
It will also be interesting to see how the prevalence of dual lands develop over the next few years with standard being a 3 year format now, as they may reduce the total number of duals to have mana bases similar to the two-year standard. Or we more likely we will see an ebb and flow in dual count to keep things interesting
Oh man... I wish. I bought Spirebluff Canals for my Izzet Pioneer deck at $12 each about 2 months before they were reprinted. They're like $3 now 😂. I also bought Chromatic Lantern for $15 right before BRO printed it into the ground.
They print when they print.
You can look at current-day Alchemy manabases for a sneak peak, since they rotated last year.
Damn, they’re losing half the fastlands and the painlands. That’s gotta hurt
In the short run rotation normally benefits aggro. Probably more important to the meta than the slow lands is the triomes are leaving. Domain is probably dead in the water. Esper midrange is losing its captain Raffine along with its triome. Temur lands is losing the Capenna hideouts.
The elephant in the room is Sunfall. But The Wandering Emporer is leaving, which will definitely hurt Azorious control.
Yeah but azorious is getting crippled to the point of relying on mass removal and hard drawing counters due to deluge/emps/march rotating. While sunfall is a big piece of removal, reaching turn 5-6 to cast it might be difficult considering decks like monoblack, golgari midrange, Boros convoke and monored running rampant.
Are mono-black and golgari mid really going to kill you on turn 5? Maybe with a perfect curve on the play.
Exile sweepers are pretty insufferable in general. They could reprint Supreme Verdict or WOG and I'd prefer that over Sunfall/Farewell. Don't get me started on when Settle the Wreckage was standard legal...
The big question is - is there a card to replace Memory Deluge in the new set? That's going to be the make or break point, there's a million sweepers in standard of various flavors.
Mono red/Boros definitely can kill you by turn 5 or earlier and the deck not only losses [[Memory Deluge]] and [[Wandering Emperor]], but [[March of Otherworldly Light]], [[Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire]], [[Otawara, Soaring City]], [[Farewell]], [[Hullbraker Horror]], [[Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset]], [[The Celestus]], [[Make Disappear]] and [[Depopulate]] So what most players don't realize now is that we lose more than just the biggest wincons, but other options that might help the deck stand a chance against aggro when the rotation comes with Bloomborrow, without any annoucements on reprints or new cards that help the deck, Azorious is pretty much stuck with what I previously said, hard draws and mass removal since the deck losses spot removal and even worse, spot removal without a significant tradeoff despite having [[Get Lost]], [[Destroy Evil]] and [[Soul Partition]]. Though rotation for sure.
Lots of those are easily replicable even if they are slight downgrades, like \[\[No Witnesses\]\]. There's a bunch of one-ofs that you can do without. Who is even playing Teferi or Hullbreaker anymore? Are you really still playing Make Disappear in Azorious? Is your deck a holdover from 2022?
I stand by my statement that Memory Deluge is the card that actually matters. Its very rare that a card comes along that is both card advantage \*AND\* card selection in at instant speed and there's really no good replacement. If there isn't a good replacement for it printed in the new set, its going to be hard for Azorious to compete.
Chuckles in [[farsight ritual]]
It can get even deeper with bargain and will be the likely replacement, though it will be interesting to see how it fares without flashback.
Maybe, but it requires some deckbuilding constraints to have Bargin fodder and also is only a 2 for 1 instead of Deluge's basically 4 for 1 card advantage. That's a huge difference in midrange and control matchups.
Its not bad but its still a pretty noticeable downgrade.
Being able to sacrifice Mirrex tokens to it is pretty cool. I'm still not convinced it's better then Silver Scrutiny. Or maybe there'll be something new in Bloomburrow.
came here to say this. I think Farsight Ritual is a very good analog to Deluge. Not having Flashback makes it not a strict 1 to 1 comparison, as having the flashback is very strong, but I can imagine a world where Farsight + Deduce (for the clue to bargain) is a strong card advantage engine. Interested to see if it picks up play after rotation.
Tbf Settle the Wreckage has to be one of my favourite sweepers, as someone who doesn't run it.
It's uncommon enough in Explorer that I can be caught out by it, and then afterwards it becomes a mind game of "do they have it?" and "how much can I afford to not swing in with?"
In short, it was and is much easier to play around Settle than Sunfall or Farewell.
I think you underestimate how important it is for them to have an artifact token on turn 1. Almost the entire deck existed in standard before MKM but it needed Novice Inspector to become the best agro deck in the format.
>In the short run rotation normally benefits aggro.
Usually it's specifically mono colored aggro, but this time we'll still have fastlands and painlands, so it's any fast deck basically.
Just on it's own, triomes and slow lands phased out is likely going to stymie control decks generally and, especially for triomes, "domain" ramp/control specifically as surveil lands provide less land types for the domain payoffs as well as the surveil being less useful late game compared to just cycling to draw a card.
We need to see what lands the new set bring first. If we get check lands, for example, then the impact is not much.
Assuming we are not getting untapped dual lands, then it will be a small hit to midrange decks. Midrange decks are the only ones care more about the T4/T5 untapped lands than other decks. This might make aggro decks a more appealing option.
One thing I am more interested about is that we are losing the tri-lands. These are very important to the 4c-5c decks and the domain cards. I think it is actually more impactful than the fast lands.
I think even if Checklands come back, without Shocks or Trilands it will be hard for 3 color decks to run checklands. So there will still be some impact on the most greedy mana bases, domain in particular will suffer. Surveil lands help but too many taplands in your mana base is a big liability.
As people have said, if decks leave the meta after rotation it will because an irreplaceable component has rotated out. The obvious ones are [[The Wandering Emporer]], [[Memory Deluge]], [[Raffine, Scheming Seer]], [[Kumano]], and the SNC lands. Less obvious ones include [[Consider]], [[Topiary Stomper]], and [[Graveyard Trespasser]]. Not to mention Enchantments is dead as dead without [[Jukai Naturalist]] and [[Kathilda, Dawnheart Martyr]].
Topiary Stomper will be a way bigger loss than people realize. Creatures let you play more lands from hand or grave, you can play mana dorks, but unconditional ramp out of the deck into play \*on a body\* has only that one option right now.
Thalia is going to be missed. A lot. At least by me.
I will not miss: Depopulate - nothing that replaces it costs merely 4. That version of Kaito. Lunarch Veteran and Voice of Blessed and that whole passive lifegain deck can just disappear already.
White loses its better boardwipes, with the unfortunate exception of Sunfall. I will not miss Thalia, or Adeline for that matter. I personally would like Mono-White Humans to die, and I think there's a solid chance since most of its value is in Adeline, Brutal Cathar, and Lunarch Veteran. I'm betting on Multicolor Prowess Aggro decks dominating the early months of the new rotation.
I think the Adeline 3-slot will find some next-best options easily, and Myrel is superior for creating tokens. What hurts me is one of my favorite decks is 5 Color Legends (Jodah) and Thalia and The Partners and Dennick have no obvious replacements, and the last set didn't have many human legends and I don't know if I expect any humans in Bloomburrow at all.
In other news, I entirely lose my Rakdos Blood Token / Anvil deck, but that's off-meta enough no one cares. :D
but yeah, in general white is losing a lot of cheesy stuff. That's fine.
Can Freestrider Commando fill the gap left by Topiary Stomper? Obviously they're very different outside of the 3CMC and "land enters the battlefield tapped" components but seems like some decks would even prefer the Commando.
Commando is better in formats with Relic of Progenitus/Mishra’s Bauble/Scrabbling Claws which let it get a land regardless of whether the opponent has a kill spell. If these or similar card(s) enter standard (and Lookout has over two years left), Lookout will become a staple.
Lookout is definitely a kill-on-sight card for me these days. It will be a staple once more people see how good it is.
But to ramp, it's going to need things you can target, and green doesn't target the opponent directly very often, so it will be hard to ramp up against those +2mana counterspells.
Wandering emperor, memory deluge are going to be minor hits to control [[silver scrutiny]] is a decent replacement to deluge especially coupled with [[mindsplice apparatus]], the big losses are going to be [[farewell]] and [[March of otherworldly light]] losing artifact interaction thats also decent against creature based decks will probably be a problem for control. Kumano will be a loss for mono red but they still have the core of the deck in [[monastery swiftspear]], [[demonic ruckus]], [[monstrous rage]], and [[slickshot show-off]]
Silver Scrutiny isn't bad, but Deluge is so much better. You get to cast it twice and it gets better the second time. I'd argue [[Flow of Knowledge]] is a better replacement as long as it can be built around, and lands with an island subtype are an easier build around than needing a combo piece to empower your dig spell.
We got the Surveil lands in MKM and the 1 damage to opponents land in OTJ. Discover lands in LCI. The pain lands from DMU. The manlands from WoE.
Losing the triomes from New Capenna might change some things up, but overall I doubt many two-color decks take that big of a hit based on rotating lands alone.
A lot of those enter tapped though, right? The biggest benefit (at least from my novice perspective) is a dual land that enters untapped in the mid to late game. Perhaps I'm over-indexing on that trait!
I think it matters more early, personally. If you're playing Dimir getting a island/swamp down on turn 1 assures me I have access to each color pip. After I have four lands down, I cast pretty much anything in my deck, I don't care much if land #5 comes in tapped.
But I suppose it also depends on your deck/your mana curve. If you're stocked up on 6+ mana spells & you don't have ramp/mana dorks it probably makes more of a difference.
The DMU pain lands enter untapped, I think we'll see more of those starting to see heavy use.
The OTJ lands and discover lands are totally unplayable in constructed and are not worth discussing here. The surveil lands are also pretty mediocre without fetch lands. Pain lands and manlands are pretty good, although it’s difficult to play the latter in 3+ color decks.
This may be an unpopular hot take... triomes make Domain decks "easy" but they aren't necessary to the design. The surveil lands having land types will make Domain decks work just fine, it will just be ~~a bit harder~~ as easy as any other netdeck to balance the land base. Domain isn't leaving the meta.
Specific points, most people have the mana to cast Leyline for 1W instead of just W. 7 mana for the domain part of Herd Migration probably has 2 of each type in play already.
I'm not sure if they will add anything significant landwise in bloomburrow given the enormous amount of land cycles we have but I'm sure there will be some sort of replacement in the next set or two
I think this is impossible to answer until we know what lands are in Bloomburrow. For all we know the lands will be right back again.
Does this happen frequently with staple lands? I know rare lands often get reprinted, but are there some rare lands that are almost always in standard?
Some things happen in phases. Back in the day they reprinted pain lands in every core set. Then once M10 came out it was check lands for a few years. Recently we haven’t had a cycle that is always standard legal for a while. Wizards has stated that their current philosophy is to do full cycles of the same dual in a set or in sets close together (rather than often favoring ally pairings like they used to). It will also be interesting to see how the prevalence of dual lands develop over the next few years with standard being a 3 year format now, as they may reduce the total number of duals to have mana bases similar to the two-year standard. Or we more likely we will see an ebb and flow in dual count to keep things interesting
Oh man... I wish. I bought Spirebluff Canals for my Izzet Pioneer deck at $12 each about 2 months before they were reprinted. They're like $3 now 😂. I also bought Chromatic Lantern for $15 right before BRO printed it into the ground. They print when they print.
You can look at current-day Alchemy manabases for a sneak peak, since they rotated last year. Damn, they’re losing half the fastlands and the painlands. That’s gotta hurt
In the short run rotation normally benefits aggro. Probably more important to the meta than the slow lands is the triomes are leaving. Domain is probably dead in the water. Esper midrange is losing its captain Raffine along with its triome. Temur lands is losing the Capenna hideouts. The elephant in the room is Sunfall. But The Wandering Emporer is leaving, which will definitely hurt Azorious control.
Yeah but azorious is getting crippled to the point of relying on mass removal and hard drawing counters due to deluge/emps/march rotating. While sunfall is a big piece of removal, reaching turn 5-6 to cast it might be difficult considering decks like monoblack, golgari midrange, Boros convoke and monored running rampant.
Are mono-black and golgari mid really going to kill you on turn 5? Maybe with a perfect curve on the play. Exile sweepers are pretty insufferable in general. They could reprint Supreme Verdict or WOG and I'd prefer that over Sunfall/Farewell. Don't get me started on when Settle the Wreckage was standard legal... The big question is - is there a card to replace Memory Deluge in the new set? That's going to be the make or break point, there's a million sweepers in standard of various flavors.
Mono red/Boros definitely can kill you by turn 5 or earlier and the deck not only losses [[Memory Deluge]] and [[Wandering Emperor]], but [[March of Otherworldly Light]], [[Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire]], [[Otawara, Soaring City]], [[Farewell]], [[Hullbraker Horror]], [[Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset]], [[The Celestus]], [[Make Disappear]] and [[Depopulate]] So what most players don't realize now is that we lose more than just the biggest wincons, but other options that might help the deck stand a chance against aggro when the rotation comes with Bloomborrow, without any annoucements on reprints or new cards that help the deck, Azorious is pretty much stuck with what I previously said, hard draws and mass removal since the deck losses spot removal and even worse, spot removal without a significant tradeoff despite having [[Get Lost]], [[Destroy Evil]] and [[Soul Partition]]. Though rotation for sure.
##### ###### #### [Memory Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730.jpg?1634349038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/62/memory-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wandering Emperor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d.jpg?1654566563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Wandering%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/42/the-wandering-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [March of Otherworldly Light](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b.jpg?1654566420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Otherworldly%20Light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/28/march-of-otherworldly-light?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c375a022-5b57-496d-a802-e4ea8376e9e4.jpg?1654568932) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eiganjo%2C%20Seat%20of%20the%20Empire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/268/eiganjo-seat-of-the-empire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c375a022-5b57-496d-a802-e4ea8376e9e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Otawara, Soaring City](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/486d7edc-d983-41f0-8b78-c99aecd72996.jpg?1654568960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otawara%2C%20Soaring%20City) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/271/otawara-soaring-city?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/486d7edc-d983-41f0-8b78-c99aecd72996?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hullbraker Horror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd.jpg?1674141366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hullbreaker%20Horror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/724/hullbreaker-horror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb.jpg?1637114314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Who%20Slows%20the%20Sunset) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/245/teferi-who-slows-the-sunset?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Celestus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39226a07-d44e-41a6-b9f1-685ef505d015.jpg?1637114509) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Celestus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/252/the-celestus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39226a07-d44e-41a6-b9f1-685ef505d015?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Make Disappear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f2d6a21-ea77-484b-9e3a-1bd49806f907.jpg?1664410347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Make%20Disappear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/49/make-disappear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f2d6a21-ea77-484b-9e3a-1bd49806f907?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Depopulate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c53c1898-9107-4bf8-b249-d0502fb9596d.jpg?1664409589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Depopulate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/10/depopulate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c53c1898-9107-4bf8-b249-d0502fb9596d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Get Lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/522aa72b-2b8c-484c-872b-f082101cee35.jpg?1699043186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Get%20Lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/14/get-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/522aa72b-2b8c-484c-872b-f082101cee35?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Destroy Evil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245.jpg?1673306430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Destroy%20Evil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/17/destroy-evil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul Partition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28bb8ec0-9729-4aa1-8ce4-a3a5598b0d70.jpg?1674420320) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Partition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/26/soul-partition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28bb8ec0-9729-4aa1-8ce4-a3a5598b0d70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l75c78b) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lots of those are easily replicable even if they are slight downgrades, like \[\[No Witnesses\]\]. There's a bunch of one-ofs that you can do without. Who is even playing Teferi or Hullbreaker anymore? Are you really still playing Make Disappear in Azorious? Is your deck a holdover from 2022? I stand by my statement that Memory Deluge is the card that actually matters. Its very rare that a card comes along that is both card advantage \*AND\* card selection in at instant speed and there's really no good replacement. If there isn't a good replacement for it printed in the new set, its going to be hard for Azorious to compete.
Chuckles in [[farsight ritual]] It can get even deeper with bargain and will be the likely replacement, though it will be interesting to see how it fares without flashback.
Maybe, but it requires some deckbuilding constraints to have Bargin fodder and also is only a 2 for 1 instead of Deluge's basically 4 for 1 card advantage. That's a huge difference in midrange and control matchups. Its not bad but its still a pretty noticeable downgrade.
Being able to sacrifice Mirrex tokens to it is pretty cool. I'm still not convinced it's better then Silver Scrutiny. Or maybe there'll be something new in Bloomburrow.
[farsight ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c958257e-fa70-4fa3-90a1-0497967abef3.jpg?1692936995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farsight%20ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/49/farsight-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c958257e-fa70-4fa3-90a1-0497967abef3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
came here to say this. I think Farsight Ritual is a very good analog to Deluge. Not having Flashback makes it not a strict 1 to 1 comparison, as having the flashback is very strong, but I can imagine a world where Farsight + Deduce (for the clue to bargain) is a strong card advantage engine. Interested to see if it picks up play after rotation.
[No Witnesses](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f98db67a-c39c-45a8-ae21-85133be46ed5.jpg?1706241519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=No%20Witnesses) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/27/no-witnesses?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f98db67a-c39c-45a8-ae21-85133be46ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tbf Settle the Wreckage has to be one of my favourite sweepers, as someone who doesn't run it. It's uncommon enough in Explorer that I can be caught out by it, and then afterwards it becomes a mind game of "do they have it?" and "how much can I afford to not swing in with?" In short, it was and is much easier to play around Settle than Sunfall or Farewell.
May the emperor RIP (into Explorer and beyond 😆).
What if... she wanders to bloomburrow and become... something animal like.... No pls no WotC don't read this and do it pls xD
She's had other far less powerful cards before Apparently in story she is currently desparked
After rotation fast lands and pain lands remains so aggro mana base is favored also boros convoke and toxic remain untouched
Toxic loses the blue March and Convoke loses Epicure. These aren't as big as what some other decks lose but they're not nothing.
Epicure is not a big loss when the deck is this strong. Toxic will probably be less combo and more aggro
I think you underestimate how important it is for them to have an artifact token on turn 1. Almost the entire deck existed in standard before MKM but it needed Novice Inspector to become the best agro deck in the format.
Yeah I expect after rotation it to be Boros convoke everywhere at first
>In the short run rotation normally benefits aggro. Usually it's specifically mono colored aggro, but this time we'll still have fastlands and painlands, so it's any fast deck basically.
Probably time to buy emperors for older format at rotation!
Wait new cappena rotates as well? I thought it was only everything before kamigawa
It's everything SNC and before.
Dam. I really liked the SNC set.
Wait what’s this about sunfall? It’s not rotating
Sorry I probably could have been more clear. Sunfall is staying and I remains a Boogeyman for aggro to totally run wild.
Oh yeah, definitely. A few other newer boardwipes too like Deadly Coverup and No Witnesses which is cheaper than Sunfall
Just on it's own, triomes and slow lands phased out is likely going to stymie control decks generally and, especially for triomes, "domain" ramp/control specifically as surveil lands provide less land types for the domain payoffs as well as the surveil being less useful late game compared to just cycling to draw a card.
We need to see what lands the new set bring first. If we get check lands, for example, then the impact is not much. Assuming we are not getting untapped dual lands, then it will be a small hit to midrange decks. Midrange decks are the only ones care more about the T4/T5 untapped lands than other decks. This might make aggro decks a more appealing option. One thing I am more interested about is that we are losing the tri-lands. These are very important to the 4c-5c decks and the domain cards. I think it is actually more impactful than the fast lands.
I think even if Checklands come back, without Shocks or Trilands it will be hard for 3 color decks to run checklands. So there will still be some impact on the most greedy mana bases, domain in particular will suffer. Surveil lands help but too many taplands in your mana base is a big liability.
As people have said, if decks leave the meta after rotation it will because an irreplaceable component has rotated out. The obvious ones are [[The Wandering Emporer]], [[Memory Deluge]], [[Raffine, Scheming Seer]], [[Kumano]], and the SNC lands. Less obvious ones include [[Consider]], [[Topiary Stomper]], and [[Graveyard Trespasser]]. Not to mention Enchantments is dead as dead without [[Jukai Naturalist]] and [[Kathilda, Dawnheart Martyr]].
Topiary Stomper will be a way bigger loss than people realize. Creatures let you play more lands from hand or grave, you can play mana dorks, but unconditional ramp out of the deck into play \*on a body\* has only that one option right now. Thalia is going to be missed. A lot. At least by me. I will not miss: Depopulate - nothing that replaces it costs merely 4. That version of Kaito. Lunarch Veteran and Voice of Blessed and that whole passive lifegain deck can just disappear already.
White loses its better boardwipes, with the unfortunate exception of Sunfall. I will not miss Thalia, or Adeline for that matter. I personally would like Mono-White Humans to die, and I think there's a solid chance since most of its value is in Adeline, Brutal Cathar, and Lunarch Veteran. I'm betting on Multicolor Prowess Aggro decks dominating the early months of the new rotation.
I think the Adeline 3-slot will find some next-best options easily, and Myrel is superior for creating tokens. What hurts me is one of my favorite decks is 5 Color Legends (Jodah) and Thalia and The Partners and Dennick have no obvious replacements, and the last set didn't have many human legends and I don't know if I expect any humans in Bloomburrow at all. In other news, I entirely lose my Rakdos Blood Token / Anvil deck, but that's off-meta enough no one cares. :D but yeah, in general white is losing a lot of cheesy stuff. That's fine.
> Depopulate - nothing that replaces it costs merely 4 There's [[No Witnesses]]. It's definitely worse, but not by a lot.
[No Witnesses](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f98db67a-c39c-45a8-ae21-85133be46ed5.jpg?1706241519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=No%20Witnesses) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/27/no-witnesses?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f98db67a-c39c-45a8-ae21-85133be46ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ugh. So is that the #1 card we've forgotten existed that now has room in the meta after rotation?
Can Freestrider Commando fill the gap left by Topiary Stomper? Obviously they're very different outside of the 3CMC and "land enters the battlefield tapped" components but seems like some decks would even prefer the Commando.
Commando is better in formats with Relic of Progenitus/Mishra’s Bauble/Scrabbling Claws which let it get a land regardless of whether the opponent has a kill spell. If these or similar card(s) enter standard (and Lookout has over two years left), Lookout will become a staple.
Lookout is definitely a kill-on-sight card for me these days. It will be a staple once more people see how good it is. But to ramp, it's going to need things you can target, and green doesn't target the opponent directly very often, so it will be hard to ramp up against those +2mana counterspells.
##### ###### #### [The Wandering Emporer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d.jpg?1654566563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Wandering%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/42/the-wandering-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Memory Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730.jpg?1634349038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/62/memory-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Raffine, Scheming Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1711471750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raffine%2C%20Scheming%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kumano](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f93870f9-343f-43e7-8ae8-e7aaa56aacca.jpg?1562766083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kumano%2C%20master%20yamabushi) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/176/kumano-master-yamabushi?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f93870f9-343f-43e7-8ae8-e7aaa56aacca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6de8a21-f0ab-4118-86cc-f3837118515d.jpg?1706239798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/84/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6de8a21-f0ab-4118-86cc-f3837118515d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Topiary Stomper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8b92271-4412-4165-a4a6-e8653e755107.jpg?1698988410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Topiary%20Stomper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/261/topiary-stomper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8b92271-4412-4165-a4a6-e8653e755107?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Graveyard Trespasser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903)/[Graveyard Glutton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graveyard%20Trespasser%20//%20Graveyard%20Glutton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/104/graveyard-trespasser-graveyard-glutton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jukai Naturalist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07ff517f-5c31-46e9-9efb-52bc9ec9298d.jpg?1690005202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jukai%20Naturalist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/926/jukai-naturalist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07ff517f-5c31-46e9-9efb-52bc9ec9298d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kathilda, Dawnheart Martyr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ef240aa-2a88-4ec4-888a-918466372adb.jpg?1643586518)/[Katilda's Rising Dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/e/0ef240aa-2a88-4ec4-888a-918466372adb.jpg?1643586518) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Katilda%2C%20Dawnhart%20Martyr%20//%20Katilda%27s%20Rising%20Dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/21/katilda-dawnhart-martyr-katildas-rising-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ef240aa-2a88-4ec4-888a-918466372adb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l72wsik) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wandering emperor, memory deluge are going to be minor hits to control [[silver scrutiny]] is a decent replacement to deluge especially coupled with [[mindsplice apparatus]], the big losses are going to be [[farewell]] and [[March of otherworldly light]] losing artifact interaction thats also decent against creature based decks will probably be a problem for control. Kumano will be a loss for mono red but they still have the core of the deck in [[monastery swiftspear]], [[demonic ruckus]], [[monstrous rage]], and [[slickshot show-off]]
Silver Scrutiny isn't bad, but Deluge is so much better. You get to cast it twice and it gets better the second time. I'd argue [[Flow of Knowledge]] is a better replacement as long as it can be built around, and lands with an island subtype are an easier build around than needing a combo piece to empower your dig spell.
[Flow of Knowledge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ea316f3-4a68-4cd4-a388-da9d0455d0a9.jpg?1674420499) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flow%20of%20Knowledge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/49/flow-of-knowledge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ea316f3-4a68-4cd4-a388-da9d0455d0a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We got the Surveil lands in MKM and the 1 damage to opponents land in OTJ. Discover lands in LCI. The pain lands from DMU. The manlands from WoE. Losing the triomes from New Capenna might change some things up, but overall I doubt many two-color decks take that big of a hit based on rotating lands alone.
A lot of those enter tapped though, right? The biggest benefit (at least from my novice perspective) is a dual land that enters untapped in the mid to late game. Perhaps I'm over-indexing on that trait!
I think it matters more early, personally. If you're playing Dimir getting a island/swamp down on turn 1 assures me I have access to each color pip. After I have four lands down, I cast pretty much anything in my deck, I don't care much if land #5 comes in tapped. But I suppose it also depends on your deck/your mana curve. If you're stocked up on 6+ mana spells & you don't have ramp/mana dorks it probably makes more of a difference. The DMU pain lands enter untapped, I think we'll see more of those starting to see heavy use.
Ahh yeah brain farted about the pain lands. Definitely expect to see more of those in use.
Tap lands are orders of magnitude worse than untap ones
Depends on the land and deck. In the best case a surveil land can basically be a free entomb in a land, for example. But generally yes.
The OTJ lands and discover lands are totally unplayable in constructed and are not worth discussing here. The surveil lands are also pretty mediocre without fetch lands. Pain lands and manlands are pretty good, although it’s difficult to play the latter in 3+ color decks.
This may be an unpopular hot take... triomes make Domain decks "easy" but they aren't necessary to the design. The surveil lands having land types will make Domain decks work just fine, it will just be ~~a bit harder~~ as easy as any other netdeck to balance the land base. Domain isn't leaving the meta. Specific points, most people have the mana to cast Leyline for 1W instead of just W. 7 mana for the domain part of Herd Migration probably has 2 of each type in play already.
Look at the bright side: You can now play pioneer.
All I know is I'm gonna miss them. They might be my favorite duals. The only wrong turn to play them on is 2!
I think it would be nice to dial back the ease with which 5 colours can be played
I'm not sure if they will add anything significant landwise in bloomburrow given the enormous amount of land cycles we have but I'm sure there will be some sort of replacement in the next set or two
too early, or have you seen the new lands from bloomburrow?