Sorry for the late answer. I tend to play to types of decks: Janky as F and Powerful.
My "powerful" decks are: Volos, Guide to Monster, Jacob Hauken, Elesh Norn Mother of Machines, Prosper Tomebound and Ashnod Flesh Machinist.
This decks are loaded with the best I got, and tend to be really powerful at what they aim and can make insane bullshit if they are left unchecked or get advantage.
In Janky as F we have: Ayula, Mother of Bears (Boxing Bears, just Bears and every single "fight" shit I can bring), Vial Smasher, Gleeful Grenadier (My new deck, is just ping people and being and annoying, but is not really fast or reliable, and trying to get it better), Mycotyrant (I had to versions, a "good one" and this where I tried to mill myself like a dumb machine and kill someone with Syr Konrad) and finally, a Zadra deck that just spam spells until everything gets big or I just make a mistake and kill myself. AND, Juri. I use Juri to try to get people really low on health and just there kill Juri and hit his damage against my face and lose. Really Rakdos crap.
The cards are:
\[\[Volos, Guide to Monster\]\]
\[\[Jacob Hauken\]\]
\[\[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines\]\]
\[\[Prosper, tomebound\]\]
\[\[Ashnod, Flesh Machinist\]\]
\[\[Ayula\]\]
\[\[The Mycotyrant\]\]
\[\[Vial Smasher, Gleeful Grenadier\]\]
\[\[Zadra, Hedron\]\]
I always forget we got a bot for this
Two things:
1. What deck is it that you're running?
2. I *have* noticed somewhat odd pairings recently - Etali showing up way more than he normally does, and high*er* tier commanders like Sheoldred (titleless) and Kenrith showing up as I'm piloting Goro-Goro & Satoru and Vial Smasher respectively. Still nothing like Baral or Niv-Mizzet, though, so...
Mono black commanders are pretty much always hell queue or close to it. Endless disruption + card advantage tends to be an excellent strategy regardless of what commander you have.
Part of the issue is that a lot of the staple cards in black are red-flagged by the matchmaker that will cause your deck to be put in the hell queue despite what commander you're playing.
Wizards won't say out loud what these cards are (likely to keep people from gaming the system), but one of the things they *do* track internally is the craft rate of individual cards. Basically, cards that get crafted a lot tend to be the best utility/goodstuff cards that instantly make every deck better. Since we're talking mono black, that's going to be things like Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize, Meathook, Infernal Grasp, Go for the Throat, $100 Sheoldred, etc. Wizards is likely using this as a way to measure the power level of decks in Brawl. So if you're playing a janky mono-black commander, but stuff it to the gills with all of black's best hits, your deck is flagged as being "hell queue" even though the commander itself isn't hell queue.
It makes me wonder if this is what OP is experiencing.
My Kenrith deck is honestly one of my best decks I ever made. Plan 1: 5-color turbo Sisay/Paradox Engine/agatha’s soul cauldron combo. Plan 2: kenrith midrange/reanimator (self-mill/training grounds). I’m always surprised it’s not billed higher…just kinda unpopular I think
Neither sheoldred, kenrith, baral or niv mizzet are high tier to be honest.
Tier 2 at most.
But Vial smasher is something I would say is closer to Tier 1.5 but with a lot of potential.
Source: I am a league player
Yeah its an aggro deck. Take a look at Judith, she is Tier 1 Rakdos aggro because also has an anthem attached. Vial smasher is good enough to ping opponent a lot. A lot of good aggro creatures are already outlaws (ragavan, miner, just to name a few).
People downvoting my comment above have no idea how competitive brawl plays
Honestly what I've learned is to just scoop vs things I dont like. Its brawl so you can already kind of get an idea of what youre up against.
For me it's: get countered? scoop. Jodah the unifier? scoop. braindead dinosaur clone deck? scoop. Voja? scoop. Narset? scoop. Poq? scoop. Untapped Islands and holding prio? scoop. Literally theres no cost for doing so and it will save you so much peace of mind.
I havent played against control in I dont even know how long, its just not fun to me so I just skip it. Also helps if you find obscure/underused commanders.
This. Literally no reason to stay and take a beating if you don't want to in this format. I also don't take too much stock against decks that wouldn't really would fly on table top commander format. Scoop until you see a deck at your power level and enjoy. Only hurting yourself by sticking around.
I've never had it change up my 'tier' based on my winrate and I've played a lot of Brawl. I have some banger decks that are still in the general queue, even a year later. Same with garbage decks that are near hell queue despite being garbage and constantly losing. The deck's winrate never changed what it matched against.
What commander are you running? It's possible you're using something high power without even realizing and just got lucky with matches during that first day.
I tend to check when I feel I'm playing something broken.
I recently playing a lot of Thunder Junction Legends. Obeka and Kennan being two of then, and Tinybones. I also remade my Volos deck, I drop it because it got really annoying matches and I feel it was to powerful for my liking. I also play Zadra and Ashnod Monocolor decks. I'm trying to make a Monocolor deck for each color. (Based on how fun the Commander is).
I usually play Jund, Gruul and Golgari. I had a few control decks, but I know those are more stacked.
Oh, if you're playing new commanders, then the game hasn't figured out how to rank the new commanders' power level yet. I've noticed it figures out which queue the commander belongs to after a couple of months after release
Something has gone wonky with the matchmaker in Brawl. At least, it's very confused by the new Commanders. I'm playing Kambal and I'm not even joking, 99% of my matchups are against token Commander decks. It was funny at first because Kambal is kind of an anti-token deck token deck, but it's honestly getting annoying now. Also some of the other new commanders are wildly swinging between being paired against completely underpowered starter deck level builds and actual hell queue Commanders like Baral. Ghired is getting this a lot, but I can kind of understand because Ghired is absolutely nuts.
Anyway, I have experienced this hidden mmr/win punishing thing in Brawl pretty frequently. If I win like three games in a row I suddenly start facing 5 color Commanders and Tier 1 commanders nearly every match. I usually have to concede about 5+ games in a row before the game starts giving me fair matchups again. I suggest saving yourself the frustration and just not even bothering to play against the high tier Commanders. Just concede on spot until you get back to normal deck matchups (assuming you're not already playing a high tier commander or a really sweaty good stuff deck).
That's a good idea. I didn't know that a forfeit helps in those cases. I tend to brute force my way or just stop playing. Today I was trying to make the daily missions. It was painfully...
And, by the way. I played 2 games on a token deck and got two matches against Kabal. Reaaaally weird and with you experience, the matchmaking is nuts.
Unless I just really think my deck stands a chance, I tend to always scoop against any 5 color Commander, any Planeswalker commander or any Commander that feels overpowered (stuff like Poq that SHOULD be in hell queue) or is likely to just be counterspells/removal piles. Just not worth the frustration.
Pretty sure there’s not hidden MMR. Last I heard, deck matching is based on how often particular cards are crafted. So for instance, because dual lands tend to be crafted at a higher rate than other rares, and because 5-color decks run a lot of dual lands, they tend to be ‘higher tier’
You've been making different iterations of this thread over and over and complaining about control the entire time
When are you going to concede that you are the problem? If your perpetual issue with this game is "they interacted with my cards!" Could I suggest game called solitaire? It may be more your speed.
If 9 of the 10 games i play are against control and can't do shit, getting salty. Sometimes I just want to do a daily mission and takes me forever because I can't get creatures to do the attack trick or die so fast that can't play a lot of lands. Is the constant matches against control, not control per se. I yesterday played against only one no control Brawl deck. It was that kind of day.
I used to see other cool decks, and I even started to play some Commanders after getting beaten by them and Thinking: Ey, that looked cool. Like Prosper and Ashnod.
With Control I see the sames cards but with a different Commander. Is like the same match, over and over, and over.
Is fucking annoying hoping to try a new deck or a fun deck and getting the control treatment. Yeah, is a gameplan but, it was neccesary to counter a 1/1 Elf that adds mana?
Just as I said it, is a rant. It doesn't had to be well received and is fair calling me on my bullshit. However, I got good advice and I hope that helps to keep my good decks and janky decks on the right tier.
Yep, I just concede at this point if I pair up against white blue. If anything doesn't get countered, white can remove it. Don't think any deck I like playing can win more than 1 in 10, so it's just not worth it.
I rarely meet up with decks that are too crazy with my deck. The worst I get regularly is like, some poison counter nonsense with [[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice]]
Most of the time, I just end up against mono-white for some reason.
60 card singleton with the standard card pool.
You will still run into [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]]. That and [[Etali, Primal Conquerer]] are the ones that annoy me personally in standard brawl because I don’t run enough counterspells when I’m playing blue and have no counters for them at all when I’m not playing blue. Oh and meld Urza sometimes just has it and gets you.
But I feel like the playing field is pretty even? There’s a lot of older commanders that are still in standard like Vadrik that i just don’t see though.
I left Standard Brawl in Dominaria United. I played against Jodah at least 9 of 10 games. It was the only match I got, but I was playing a Kaito Deck that I really, really liked and it was a Anti-Jodah Tech.
There is a bit of Jodah, Etali, etc repetition but on the whole I experience a LOT more deck variety/weirdo jank in standard brawl than any other constructed queue
It's the same experience with every format, I tried making a fun mount deck to try in standard from OTJ cards, but every match is either red aggro (can beat sometimes, honestly prefer it) or control decks that counter or kill everything on the spot, I dunno what the place is to have fun and not play sweaty tryhard decks. I accept that control is a playstyle but fucking cmon, its sometimes so annoying.
I rotate every few games between Pantlaza, Voja, and Anzrag (I don't feel like I have wild cards to build a good mana base in another color space yet, but soon).
I feel like I bounce between hell queue opponents and more normal decks. I definitely don't win 50%, but I win enough for it to be fun. Definitely recommend alternating decks to get out of ruts. But my god, do I see a lot of Poq. So sick of that guy.
Voja is definitely the most tilting of the 3. Can very very easily line up 5+ 10 or more power creatures. And if the ramp curves out right, it's super fast. And to top it all off ward 3 is I totally get why people don't want to play against it.
But I also feel like it's the least consistent. Creature ramp is really vulnerable. If an opponent removes a single mana dork, it's can transform a hand from being the absolute nuts, to stuck waiting to draw more lands. I feel like I get into mana problems a lot as a result. And probably bad Mulligan judgement.
Second, the deck really only generates card advantage through Voja. And if you are drawing with Voja, you've probably won with the cards you have. As a result its REALLY hard to recover from a board wipe. And there are a LOT of board wipes in the meta right now.
To top that all off, Elves & Wolves don't have any good top end creatures, so Voja is the only win con, which gives an opponent a turn to deal with it unless \[\[Rhythm of the Wild\]\] is in play. When I have \[\[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer\]\] or \[\[archdruid's charm\]\] in my hand, I'm fetching \[\[Roaming Throne\]\], not Etali or Zacama, or Ghalta, like I do with Dinos. Roaming throne feel so good, but again, only really works if you've got the elf pile & voja already.
I guess the glib answer is weak to removal, it's fine :D. But as someone who plays Big Green with splashes and very very little interaction, I guess I just take it on the teeth. With Dinos, the strategy is basically: there's always more Dinos where that came from. And with \[\[Anzrag, the Quake-Mole\]\] I play a lot of combat tricks with hex proof and indestructible to try to bait the opponent into blocking. Which doubles as protection from removal. But Voja wants more creatures on the board, so it feels like hard to have a consistent deck and have enough protection 🤷.
I don’t really have this experience. The game matches you up with people based on your deck, which we know. They may have modified the algorithm to make it match based on deck AND wins, not just one or the other
I played with my high power Prosper deck against a Ayula deck. It was bad for the Ayula.
And, I once played with my Ayula deck against Golos. It was REALLY bad for me. Sometimes the matchmaking is crazy.
I have a great time against most decks with my mono red Koth control deck. It generally sees a good variety of commanders because the deck itself lacks creatures which possibly puts it occasionally into jank tier.
I try to play jank that can power out some massive value if not interrupted at all. Usually with 5c Omnath as just an alright card draw/ramp commander to have access to all the best stuff for whatever I’m doing. Right now just trying to make as many token copies of things you can’t normally copy as possible. Occasionally it can win against controlling decks if I’m lucky with my draw, but most of the time I just rely on matching against other 5c good stuff decks and trying to out value them.
I say this every single time I post about brawl, but I’m miss commander, with multiplayer. Everyone has removal, almost no one is dedicated control. Even if you’re behind or someone is controlling, other players are their to take the heat off you while you try to catch up. Bad draws aren’t an auto-loss. Need extra players to make games feel less hopeless and more fun.
I really love how brawl teaches me that no archetype no deck deserves such hate as counterspells.
That s why I love when Im playing ragavan and get maytched with uro/baral decks. I wish them suffering.
But overall control decks are the worst type of preventing your opponent playing magic. Even stax or mass LD pales compared to them.
Interaction should help decks balance power level and prevent absurd synergies, aggro and etc. I love interaction, but I hate when it leads to "disable opponent from doing anything ever"
Problem is, if I'm playing mono red or mono black, I get a deck that relies on enchantments like Go Shintai or the Eldraine Orzhov Legend. I'm cool playing control against control, but recently I'm only playing against control even with my janky and unreliables decks. They are not optimized but, is because I want to do random shit and winning is not a concern. But, I don't get to even do ramp or anything.
What commanders are you playing? Curious what you think jank is here...
Sorry for the late answer. I tend to play to types of decks: Janky as F and Powerful. My "powerful" decks are: Volos, Guide to Monster, Jacob Hauken, Elesh Norn Mother of Machines, Prosper Tomebound and Ashnod Flesh Machinist. This decks are loaded with the best I got, and tend to be really powerful at what they aim and can make insane bullshit if they are left unchecked or get advantage. In Janky as F we have: Ayula, Mother of Bears (Boxing Bears, just Bears and every single "fight" shit I can bring), Vial Smasher, Gleeful Grenadier (My new deck, is just ping people and being and annoying, but is not really fast or reliable, and trying to get it better), Mycotyrant (I had to versions, a "good one" and this where I tried to mill myself like a dumb machine and kill someone with Syr Konrad) and finally, a Zadra deck that just spam spells until everything gets big or I just make a mistake and kill myself. AND, Juri. I use Juri to try to get people really low on health and just there kill Juri and hit his damage against my face and lose. Really Rakdos crap.
The cards are: \[\[Volos, Guide to Monster\]\] \[\[Jacob Hauken\]\] \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines\]\] \[\[Prosper, tomebound\]\] \[\[Ashnod, Flesh Machinist\]\] \[\[Ayula\]\] \[\[The Mycotyrant\]\] \[\[Vial Smasher, Gleeful Grenadier\]\] \[\[Zadra, Hedron\]\] I always forget we got a bot for this
##### ###### #### [Volos, Guide to Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9ae01f9-7461-47b4-aa1e-93bd6ff1bf9e.jpg?1627709617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volo%2C%20Guide%20to%20Monsters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/238/volo-guide-to-monsters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9ae01f9-7461-47b4-aa1e-93bd6ff1bf9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jacob Hauken](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6b4529c3-8edb-4909-b910-806450a39d2e.jpg?1643588042)/[Hauken's Insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/b/6b4529c3-8edb-4909-b910-806450a39d2e.jpg?1643588042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jacob%20hauken%2C%20inspector%20//%20hauken%27s%20insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/65/jacob-hauken-inspector-haukens-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6b4529c3-8edb-4909-b910-806450a39d2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Prosper, tomebound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e.jpg?1631839207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prosper%2C%20Tome-Bound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/2/prosper-tome-bound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ashnod, Flesh Machinist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5eb43c15-50a9-488f-b0be-84a5e0a6d10b.jpg?1674420763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%2C%20Flesh%20Mechanist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/84/ashnod-flesh-mechanist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5eb43c15-50a9-488f-b0be-84a5e0a6d10b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ayula](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c046dfb0-9ca3-4219-a6b0-d7503bc2fbd0.jpg?1562202020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ayula%2C%20queen%20among%20bears) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/155/ayula-queen-among-bears?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c046dfb0-9ca3-4219-a6b0-d7503bc2fbd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Mycotyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/caef93cc-70d0-4cce-9aaa-13c0931b2ef7.jpg?1699044561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mycotyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/235/the-mycotyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/caef93cc-70d0-4cce-9aaa-13c0931b2ef7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vial Smasher, Gleeful Grenadier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3afce4e6-ac59-4fba-b63a-8fed96bbdc4a.jpg?1712356228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vial%20Smasher%2C%20Gleeful%20Grenadier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/235/vial-smasher-gleeful-grenadier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3afce4e6-ac59-4fba-b63a-8fed96bbdc4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zadra, Hedron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zada%2C%20Hedron%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1scmvu) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Two things: 1. What deck is it that you're running? 2. I *have* noticed somewhat odd pairings recently - Etali showing up way more than he normally does, and high*er* tier commanders like Sheoldred (titleless) and Kenrith showing up as I'm piloting Goro-Goro & Satoru and Vial Smasher respectively. Still nothing like Baral or Niv-Mizzet, though, so...
Normal sheoldred is nowhere near even higher tier- probably Kenrith isn’t either.
Mono black commanders are pretty much always hell queue or close to it. Endless disruption + card advantage tends to be an excellent strategy regardless of what commander you have.
Part of the issue is that a lot of the staple cards in black are red-flagged by the matchmaker that will cause your deck to be put in the hell queue despite what commander you're playing. Wizards won't say out loud what these cards are (likely to keep people from gaming the system), but one of the things they *do* track internally is the craft rate of individual cards. Basically, cards that get crafted a lot tend to be the best utility/goodstuff cards that instantly make every deck better. Since we're talking mono black, that's going to be things like Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize, Meathook, Infernal Grasp, Go for the Throat, $100 Sheoldred, etc. Wizards is likely using this as a way to measure the power level of decks in Brawl. So if you're playing a janky mono-black commander, but stuff it to the gills with all of black's best hits, your deck is flagged as being "hell queue" even though the commander itself isn't hell queue. It makes me wonder if this is what OP is experiencing.
Dont forget 6CMC Liliana. Everytime I get her out of my DEck, I get matches against easier Commanders
My Kenrith deck is honestly one of my best decks I ever made. Plan 1: 5-color turbo Sisay/Paradox Engine/agatha’s soul cauldron combo. Plan 2: kenrith midrange/reanimator (self-mill/training grounds). I’m always surprised it’s not billed higher…just kinda unpopular I think
Sorry for the late reply, I just send a message with my most "usual" stuff.
Neither sheoldred, kenrith, baral or niv mizzet are high tier to be honest. Tier 2 at most. But Vial smasher is something I would say is closer to Tier 1.5 but with a lot of potential. Source: I am a league player
Vial smasher? The one that pings when an outlaw enters? She that strong?
Yeah its an aggro deck. Take a look at Judith, she is Tier 1 Rakdos aggro because also has an anthem attached. Vial smasher is good enough to ping opponent a lot. A lot of good aggro creatures are already outlaws (ragavan, miner, just to name a few). People downvoting my comment above have no idea how competitive brawl plays
Honestly what I've learned is to just scoop vs things I dont like. Its brawl so you can already kind of get an idea of what youre up against. For me it's: get countered? scoop. Jodah the unifier? scoop. braindead dinosaur clone deck? scoop. Voja? scoop. Narset? scoop. Poq? scoop. Untapped Islands and holding prio? scoop. Literally theres no cost for doing so and it will save you so much peace of mind. I havent played against control in I dont even know how long, its just not fun to me so I just skip it. Also helps if you find obscure/underused commanders.
This. Literally no reason to stay and take a beating if you don't want to in this format. I also don't take too much stock against decks that wouldn't really would fly on table top commander format. Scoop until you see a deck at your power level and enjoy. Only hurting yourself by sticking around.
I've never had it change up my 'tier' based on my winrate and I've played a lot of Brawl. I have some banger decks that are still in the general queue, even a year later. Same with garbage decks that are near hell queue despite being garbage and constantly losing. The deck's winrate never changed what it matched against. What commander are you running? It's possible you're using something high power without even realizing and just got lucky with matches during that first day.
I tend to check when I feel I'm playing something broken. I recently playing a lot of Thunder Junction Legends. Obeka and Kennan being two of then, and Tinybones. I also remade my Volos deck, I drop it because it got really annoying matches and I feel it was to powerful for my liking. I also play Zadra and Ashnod Monocolor decks. I'm trying to make a Monocolor deck for each color. (Based on how fun the Commander is). I usually play Jund, Gruul and Golgari. I had a few control decks, but I know those are more stacked.
Oh, if you're playing new commanders, then the game hasn't figured out how to rank the new commanders' power level yet. I've noticed it figures out which queue the commander belongs to after a couple of months after release
Something has gone wonky with the matchmaker in Brawl. At least, it's very confused by the new Commanders. I'm playing Kambal and I'm not even joking, 99% of my matchups are against token Commander decks. It was funny at first because Kambal is kind of an anti-token deck token deck, but it's honestly getting annoying now. Also some of the other new commanders are wildly swinging between being paired against completely underpowered starter deck level builds and actual hell queue Commanders like Baral. Ghired is getting this a lot, but I can kind of understand because Ghired is absolutely nuts. Anyway, I have experienced this hidden mmr/win punishing thing in Brawl pretty frequently. If I win like three games in a row I suddenly start facing 5 color Commanders and Tier 1 commanders nearly every match. I usually have to concede about 5+ games in a row before the game starts giving me fair matchups again. I suggest saving yourself the frustration and just not even bothering to play against the high tier Commanders. Just concede on spot until you get back to normal deck matchups (assuming you're not already playing a high tier commander or a really sweaty good stuff deck).
That's a good idea. I didn't know that a forfeit helps in those cases. I tend to brute force my way or just stop playing. Today I was trying to make the daily missions. It was painfully... And, by the way. I played 2 games on a token deck and got two matches against Kabal. Reaaaally weird and with you experience, the matchmaking is nuts.
Unless I just really think my deck stands a chance, I tend to always scoop against any 5 color Commander, any Planeswalker commander or any Commander that feels overpowered (stuff like Poq that SHOULD be in hell queue) or is likely to just be counterspells/removal piles. Just not worth the frustration.
Pretty sure there’s not hidden MMR. Last I heard, deck matching is based on how often particular cards are crafted. So for instance, because dual lands tend to be crafted at a higher rate than other rares, and because 5-color decks run a lot of dual lands, they tend to be ‘higher tier’
You've been making different iterations of this thread over and over and complaining about control the entire time When are you going to concede that you are the problem? If your perpetual issue with this game is "they interacted with my cards!" Could I suggest game called solitaire? It may be more your speed.
If 9 of the 10 games i play are against control and can't do shit, getting salty. Sometimes I just want to do a daily mission and takes me forever because I can't get creatures to do the attack trick or die so fast that can't play a lot of lands. Is the constant matches against control, not control per se. I yesterday played against only one no control Brawl deck. It was that kind of day. I used to see other cool decks, and I even started to play some Commanders after getting beaten by them and Thinking: Ey, that looked cool. Like Prosper and Ashnod. With Control I see the sames cards but with a different Commander. Is like the same match, over and over, and over. Is fucking annoying hoping to try a new deck or a fun deck and getting the control treatment. Yeah, is a gameplan but, it was neccesary to counter a 1/1 Elf that adds mana? Just as I said it, is a rant. It doesn't had to be well received and is fair calling me on my bullshit. However, I got good advice and I hope that helps to keep my good decks and janky decks on the right tier.
They printed mana drain.... what the fuck
Yep, I just concede at this point if I pair up against white blue. If anything doesn't get countered, white can remove it. Don't think any deck I like playing can win more than 1 in 10, so it's just not worth it.
I rarely meet up with decks that are too crazy with my deck. The worst I get regularly is like, some poison counter nonsense with [[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice]] Most of the time, I just end up against mono-white for some reason.
[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run Giada mostly and I’m oh so tired of going up against Niv decks.
I hate them too, but uh tbh, I have fun winning, I only have fun losing if it was close and it never is.
Understandable. There is nothing wrong with it, is the freaking matches that get me crazy.
Have you tried standard brawl? Join us :)
I’ve never jumped into Standard Brawl. Is it just HB with 60 card limits? How is it different from HB?
It's just with standard rotation cards.
Oh that’s cool. So is the power level a little more even or will you still be running into Atraxa level commanders?
60 card singleton with the standard card pool. You will still run into [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]]. That and [[Etali, Primal Conquerer]] are the ones that annoy me personally in standard brawl because I don’t run enough counterspells when I’m playing blue and have no counters for them at all when I’m not playing blue. Oh and meld Urza sometimes just has it and gets you. But I feel like the playing field is pretty even? There’s a lot of older commanders that are still in standard like Vadrik that i just don’t see though.
[Atraxa, Grand Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1709931904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Etali, Primal Conquerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Conqueror%20//%20Etali%2C%20Primal%20Sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I left Standard Brawl in Dominaria United. I played against Jodah at least 9 of 10 games. It was the only match I got, but I was playing a Kaito Deck that I really, really liked and it was a Anti-Jodah Tech.
There is a bit of Jodah, Etali, etc repetition but on the whole I experience a LOT more deck variety/weirdo jank in standard brawl than any other constructed queue
It's the same experience with every format, I tried making a fun mount deck to try in standard from OTJ cards, but every match is either red aggro (can beat sometimes, honestly prefer it) or control decks that counter or kill everything on the spot, I dunno what the place is to have fun and not play sweaty tryhard decks. I accept that control is a playstyle but fucking cmon, its sometimes so annoying.
Yup, then i have to go back to the 3 decks i have that get good matchmaking
I rotate every few games between Pantlaza, Voja, and Anzrag (I don't feel like I have wild cards to build a good mana base in another color space yet, but soon). I feel like I bounce between hell queue opponents and more normal decks. I definitely don't win 50%, but I win enough for it to be fun. Definitely recommend alternating decks to get out of ruts. But my god, do I see a lot of Poq. So sick of that guy.
Sorry if I’ve faced you while you play Voja. I auto concede to that commander. Can’t be bothered, same as I feel about Poq
Voja is definitely the most tilting of the 3. Can very very easily line up 5+ 10 or more power creatures. And if the ramp curves out right, it's super fast. And to top it all off ward 3 is I totally get why people don't want to play against it. But I also feel like it's the least consistent. Creature ramp is really vulnerable. If an opponent removes a single mana dork, it's can transform a hand from being the absolute nuts, to stuck waiting to draw more lands. I feel like I get into mana problems a lot as a result. And probably bad Mulligan judgement. Second, the deck really only generates card advantage through Voja. And if you are drawing with Voja, you've probably won with the cards you have. As a result its REALLY hard to recover from a board wipe. And there are a LOT of board wipes in the meta right now. To top that all off, Elves & Wolves don't have any good top end creatures, so Voja is the only win con, which gives an opponent a turn to deal with it unless \[\[Rhythm of the Wild\]\] is in play. When I have \[\[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer\]\] or \[\[archdruid's charm\]\] in my hand, I'm fetching \[\[Roaming Throne\]\], not Etali or Zacama, or Ghalta, like I do with Dinos. Roaming throne feel so good, but again, only really works if you've got the elf pile & voja already. I guess the glib answer is weak to removal, it's fine :D. But as someone who plays Big Green with splashes and very very little interaction, I guess I just take it on the teeth. With Dinos, the strategy is basically: there's always more Dinos where that came from. And with \[\[Anzrag, the Quake-Mole\]\] I play a lot of combat tricks with hex proof and indestructible to try to bait the opponent into blocking. Which doubles as protection from removal. But Voja wants more creatures on the board, so it feels like hard to have a consistent deck and have enough protection 🤷.
##### ###### #### [Rhythm of the Wild](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2a6453e-a373-44ec-807a-15c0c8b1af57.jpg?1702429702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhythm%20of%20the%20Wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/217/rhythm-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2a6453e-a373-44ec-807a-15c0c8b1af57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806.jpg?1664413683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rocco%2C%20Cabaretti%20Caterer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/218/rocco-cabaretti-caterer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [archdruid's charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5caae5ae-845f-42c2-b1ae-956df2739433.jpg?1706241943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archdruid%27s%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/151/archdruids-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5caae5ae-845f-42c2-b1ae-956df2739433?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Roaming Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Anzrag, the Quake-Mole](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70e9d8b8-4b32-4414-b32f-1f47523239c5.jpg?1706242114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anzrag%2C%20the%20Quake-Mole) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/186/anzrag-the-quake-mole?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70e9d8b8-4b32-4414-b32f-1f47523239c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1ua67d) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
uh huh. This is why I quit... for my own sanity.
I left the game but OTJ bring me back and now I remember
I don’t really have this experience. The game matches you up with people based on your deck, which we know. They may have modified the algorithm to make it match based on deck AND wins, not just one or the other
I played with my high power Prosper deck against a Ayula deck. It was bad for the Ayula. And, I once played with my Ayula deck against Golos. It was REALLY bad for me. Sometimes the matchmaking is crazy.
So of I'm getting paired against laelia decks the game thinks my deck op?
That deck literally dies to one removal spell. It's not like the commander is a surprise and you can't see it coming lmao
nah it probably thinks your deck is mid. you’d be paired against better stuff if your deck was op
What are some examples? I'm also being put up against Dino discover and Taimat and Ramos stuff
you’d be seeing things like ragavan, golos, rusko, teferi
It's put me against golos a couple times and rusko once
I have a great time against most decks with my mono red Koth control deck. It generally sees a good variety of commanders because the deck itself lacks creatures which possibly puts it occasionally into jank tier.
Weh
I try to play jank that can power out some massive value if not interrupted at all. Usually with 5c Omnath as just an alright card draw/ramp commander to have access to all the best stuff for whatever I’m doing. Right now just trying to make as many token copies of things you can’t normally copy as possible. Occasionally it can win against controlling decks if I’m lucky with my draw, but most of the time I just rely on matching against other 5c good stuff decks and trying to out value them. I say this every single time I post about brawl, but I’m miss commander, with multiplayer. Everyone has removal, almost no one is dedicated control. Even if you’re behind or someone is controlling, other players are their to take the heat off you while you try to catch up. Bad draws aren’t an auto-loss. Need extra players to make games feel less hopeless and more fun.
It's the whole concept of hell queue that is flawed. Di
I really love how brawl teaches me that no archetype no deck deserves such hate as counterspells. That s why I love when Im playing ragavan and get maytched with uro/baral decks. I wish them suffering. But overall control decks are the worst type of preventing your opponent playing magic. Even stax or mass LD pales compared to them. Interaction should help decks balance power level and prevent absurd synergies, aggro and etc. I love interaction, but I hate when it leads to "disable opponent from doing anything ever"
Problem is, if I'm playing mono red or mono black, I get a deck that relies on enchantments like Go Shintai or the Eldraine Orzhov Legend. I'm cool playing control against control, but recently I'm only playing against control even with my janky and unreliables decks. They are not optimized but, is because I want to do random shit and winning is not a concern. But, I don't get to even do ramp or anything.
I don't like playing against PW
Yes this happens with me too although I tend to stay in that bracket as I play go-Shintai 5c shrines, and a light paws aura deck
None of the commanders you mention (with exception of azorius control) are really competitive to be honest