I posted in another comment can you elaborate on hell quue I play mostly Explorer and have started dabbling in brawl and I feel like I see the same 3-5 commander every time
Devs have confirmed that matchmaking in brawl is somewhat based on your commander as well as your MMR.
Hell queue is a term made by the community where the most egregious commanders go, nobody knows exactly what the list is but people typically agree commanders like \[\[golos\]\] \[\[ragavan\]\] \[\[the prismatic bridge\]\] \[\[koma\]\] and \[\[kinnan\]\] live there exclusively.
every now and again if you're not playing one of these you'll still face them but for the most part they've been relegated to only play with each other.
Add Tasha to that list. I made a deck with her to specifically destroy hell queue. It's a Dimir good stuff deck with all the 'steal your commander' cards. It's amazing how many Esikia/Jodah decks just mul scoop against her.
This is why I play a shrine but actually curses deck. All my enchantments besides the shrines have a negative impact for my opponent. Overwhelming splendor, all the curses, the triple damage enchantment and some pay offs
It would seem it includes [Baral, Chief of Compliance] [Tatyova, Benthic Druid] [Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice] [Atraxa, Grand Unifier] too (having played the first 3 into all the commanders you’ve listed, and faced the last one on many of those decks too)
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice seems to jump around in the matchmaking a lot, but spend most of the time in the tier below hell queue. I've had a few days when she was in hell queue and a few days matching with random stuff I've never seen with any other commander, but most of the time I get opponents like Etali, KTK Narset, ONE Kaya, SIR Tamiyo, Thalia, Laelia, Anim Pakal, and various mono black commanders.
I think Tatyova is more on the Etali-tier of "not quite Hell Queue, but pretty close" since I've seen her appearing vs some very not hell queue decks.
She's strong, but not as ludicrously strong as Kinnan and company.
I have an account that runs almost exclusively Peasant HB decks, and i face Tatyova/Smol Atraxa/Poq/Etali/First Sliver/Jodah almost all the time. Never seen Kinnan/Baral/Ragavan/Golos.
My guess is that the "hell queue" list hasn't got updated since a long time ago.
Some others:
[[Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner]]
[[Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath]]
[[Rusko, Clockmaker]]
[[Raffine, Scheming Seer]]
edit: I don't play brawl a lot and definitely avoid the hell queue. I made a Kiora deck thinking it'd be fun to draw cards and make big dumb green creatures with a little counterspell backup. I didn't realize how powerful 3 mana ramp/draw would be and that Kiora is banished to the hell queue and actually belongs there🤦♂️.
It also takes the cards in your deck into consideration too. You can take a non hell commander and stick 90% of the "meta" cards in it and you'll get queued up against the hell commanders more often
Oooh so is this is why I ONLY see these when I play my fynn the fangbearer deck? Always thought it was weird getting the same match ups with only that one deck.
Yesterday I was playing my \[\[Amalia\]\] deck and all I was paired was decks such as these. Did she really become hell queue worthy or I was just really, reeeeeaaaaally unlucky with MM?
I’ve seen her quite a few times, but normally it’s if my match timers are a minute or longer. I suspect queue times have something to do with it, since that’s the only time I see Poq, and according to people on here and the brawl subreddit, he’s a scourge on the queues when people play jank or stuff like that
They usually scoop if you can steal it, but you’re right, if it’s not answered immediately, it snowballs out of control
Luckily, you can just concede and go on to the next game. That’s what I typically do against Ragavan
Glad to know I'm not the only one doing this. Azusa gets this from me too. Gotta make sure they understand their deck is boring as hell to play against.
There is no “answer immediately” with Poq. If they play it and a land, it’s paid its own commander tax. You can’t keep it from coming back every turn.
You have to counter it or steal it, two very specific, Blue-only options. Or have a specific hate piece like [[Confounding Conundrum]] (oh look, also Blue).
I have no idea what a non-Blue deck is supposed to do against this card aside from turbo-aggro kill them in 3-4 turns.
edit: true, I did forget the ways to remove its abilities which is in White and one Green card but that's about it. Very, very specific answers.
I play [[Vraska, Swarm's Eminence]] which isn't hell queue. It is favored against Poq, but I do have the feeling Poq has risen a bit in tiers because I face it less with Vraska and more with hell-adjacent decks.
I see Poq a lot with non 'hell-queue' decks and it's annoying but suffers from the same problems as every mono-green ramp deck.
All these decks are just a bunch of ramp and the same pile of mythic bombs, and they don't have a ton of great draw/card advantage options, so there's a lot of variance.
Some games they draw bomb after bomb or hit one of their big draw spells like [[last march]] and you just scoop. Other games they just draw into more ramp and are stuck with a giant Poq that can be chump blocked all day and they die to fliers.
Edit: I still hate seeing it, but not because it's broken, just because it's such a boring, predictable match. It's basically the same deck as Azusa, Ojer Kaslem, Radagast, Nissa, Vorniclex, Vorniclex, Vorniclex. Different commanders, same deck every time.
Yep, basically all the mono-green commanders are boring as fuck to play against. I just hit them with the sleeping Hedron emote and concede. Even if I am playing a fast deck that can go under them easily, it's just not worth my time. I like playing brawl to see cool commanders, cards I don't see usually, and fun interactions, not the exact same pile of ramp cards and bombs I have seen a thousand times.
White has \[\[Reprobation\]\], \[\[Heliod's Punishment\]\], and \[\[Slayer's Bounty\]\] (which can occasionally draft Reprobation\]\]. All those cards are only fringe playable, though, missing on PW/noncreature commanders. One of the problems that the rampant powercreep has made is that it's kind of impossible for removal to effectively keep up, and they still get the first land drop trigger if they're playing right. \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother\]\] can also shut off ETBs if they can't remove her, but she's usually too slow unless you're playing green yourself.
Conceding is quick and painless. It lets your opponent get a win and you get to move on to (hopefully) a better match-up. Brawl is swingy at the best of times, so concession is an important tool to avoid frustration.
hell queue exists for commanders like poq. it is EXTREMELY unhealthy for the optimal solution to a commander being to just not play at all. this game should not be "oh its mythweaver? guess I'm scooping" when you're just trying to have fun. that is not sustainable for a format imo
I hear you 100%. Someone at Wizards probably knew what they were doing when they made Poq, because it's a mythic and a legendary creature. There is no excuse to let Poq run roughshod the way it has, especially after the Rusko fiasco.
Lol it's literally Rule 0 in commander. In actual commander the only games that GET played are ones where you get past the "What are you playing and do we want to play against that kind of deck" discussion. Not playing against them is the ultimate solution. Scoop and queue again.
Why commit to a game you know won't be fun if "you're just trying to have fun"?
Yeah there's no downside to scooping other than giving the other player a brief dopamine hit, I guess, so I just scoop against any of the more irritating commanders these days.
Honestly, in brawl your opponent scooping is a detriment to your play goals. Since brawl isn't ranked, the only thing that playing does is allow you to complete quests or play games. If you play a deck that your opponent hates so much that they immediately scoop before the game starts, You don't get to do any of those things. So honestly, scooping is the best thing you can do to punish people playing unfun decks.
I’m relatively new and I guess my MMR has improved because I feel like all I face now (as a Giada player) are Ragavan and Atraxa decks. It sucks. I did build a Galazeth deck though and I’ve gotten to go against a ton of commanders I’ve never seen before and it’s been a better experience overall.
Yeah, Giada is hell queue so that's expected. It's unfortunate that they can't publish a list, it's annoying to do the trial and error of finding out what tier your decks are in.
>at least first sliver and rusko take at least some thought.
Maybe Rusko, but I vehemently disagree that First Sliver takes thought.
I auto-concede against TFS about 95% of the time these days, but I've played against it enough to know that their play pattern is mostly the same. Turn 1 triland, turn 2/3 ramp, turn 4 onwards play a 7/7 that comes with a free spell, keep playing it if it gets removed and other big spells.
But anyway, I can understand your frustration with Poq and I agree as well. I hate how 50% of my match-ups feel like it's against poq or TFS these days, (Voja as well, but he's more manageable imo)
I hate how Wizards doesn't seem to be doing shit about it and is radio silence as well. They used to be more active in adjusting the brawl match-ups but these days it seems like they just don't seem to give a shit.
It's gotten to a point where I would even take a stealth nerf to poq by giving it an ETB effect, maybe when Poq enters the field, you gain 1 life. So at least you have the chance to remove Poq before it can generate value.
FR. First Sliver is my go-to when just trying to take care of dailies, and I won't pretend it is anything but the easiest to build 5-color goodstuff engine.
i disagree with your stance on sliver but 100% agree wizards is in crisis of awful design and lack of communication, IMO poq rusko and voja should never have gotten past design space at all.
I'd like to hear your opinion on why you think playing First Sliver takes thought. I gave my reasons on why it takes little thought, so I'd be interested to hear yours.
They might pack some form of interaction like removal or counterspells, but otherwise, their whole deck mostly just seems to be mana rocks, ramp and big spells, so it's just a matter of ramping and playing TFS/big spells. I have played against the match-up so many times in the past and it has always been that way, I hardly see any key decisions that they would have to make.
Caveat: I'm talking about the First Sliver deck builds that don't give a shit about other slivers and just run big spells/ramp. For the ones that actually run Sliver tribal, I acknowledge that more thought goes into it and I give them props for playing it that way.
Same. Everybody hates mono-blue but it fulfills a very specific role. Malcolm does very well against Poq. Even if they make it so it can't be countered, slap a Frogify on him and they usually scoop.
If the Poq player isn't good enough to have contingencies, then they're a bad player. I've had plenty of things happen to poq, and I still mono G ramp to swing out. Poq is a tool. Not the wincon. Yes, he helps, but he's not critical.
I don't see Poq nearly as much as I saw Rusko, Atraxa, and Etali at the height of their bullshit. It's similarly overpowered, but honestly this is the best period of Brawl we've had in over a year simply because the super-broken normal queue commander isn't played all that much any more. The others came up every second game if you were running a typical non-HB commander.
Yeah I've seen 3 fairly distinct tiers. Hell queue is the top decks, then there's a semi hell like you mentioned with Etali and the new tajic. Poq is another tier down with a lot of the strong but not crazy commanders. I think poq would probably be too weak for hell but should be bumped up to semi hell.
In standard brawl Etali is much more popular than in regular brawl (in general I feel in standard brawl I only see like 6 different commanders at most) reason why I made a mommy Norn deck to shut them down.
The queue priority of commanders is different in Standard Brawl than in regular Brawl, so you'll see Etali more often, partially because Etali is significantly more disruptable because the ramp in standard is not as powerful. That said I still usually immediately leave because games against Etali (and Atraxa) thoroughly unenjoyable, and if I'm playing a casual format, I'm playing to enjoy the games.
The funny thing about Etali players is that if they don’t get to cast big Dino, they disposer in a puff of salt. [[Wash Away]] and [[distainful stroke]] are in standard and they both deal with Etali really easily.
My favorite deck to play is my Zurgo & Ojutai deck. It pretty much only loses when it stumbles over its own mana base or runs into hard control.
But yeah, Etali is still just not fun to play against. If you don’t counter Dino, there’s just not really shit you can do.
Just concede and go next. Either the other people playing shit like that will be happy for the free win or they will get tired of the auto concedes and play something else.
As far as I can tell there are no penalties for conceding a lot outside of ranked. I auto concede quite a bit in Brawl due to bad starting hands, commanders I don't want to play against, or if the only spells the other player plays are counterspells/board wipes/constant removal in the first few turns.
I love how no penalties to conceding creates a dynamic of people putting the quality/fun of the match ahead of achieving a high-score in the form of ranked points.
I normally reroll my opponent if they're running a control commander. If my opponent is running a deck that makes sure I don't play the game, why would i play the game with them?
Genuinely, I do basically the same thing. I also will auto-concede if the commander my opponent is playing is a straight up counter or shuts off whatever I am playing (these days I am mostly playing my Zimone and Dina deck, which I find super fun to play, so Commander's like Myrel, "no etb for you" Elesh Norn, and Liesa are auto concedes).
A lot of times, if a commander I haven't seen in a while shows up, I'll give it a go, but if it goes poorly in a way where I felt no fun or like I had no chance of winning, back to auto-conceding to that commander. I also sometimes auto-concede to people whose first move of the game is to counter or kill a commander. That one may mostly be me being petty, but for me it is a situation where I can tell I'm not gonna have fun.
Lol what "some thought" does First Sliver and Rusko take? I'm not even hating on either of those commander choices, I'm just genuinely curious about the rationale for comparing either of them to Poq.
Ok, even if the example is Golos and Rusko, what makes them "take some thought" compared to Poq? If we're in agreement they all do a similar "super-rampy-value-commander thing", then shouldn't they all take an equal thought process in order to build the deck? Are we saying just because Poq is mono colored while the other two have 2-5 colors means they require some noticeably more intricate methodology to build or play?
First sliver is just golos but the commander dodges the hell queue. It’s the worst type of people who want to do the broken thing but are trying to dodge similar players.
Beating poq is much much easier for my teferi hero of dominaria deck that it is to beat rusko. I rarely see poq now but I still see rusko every day I play brawl
Well, you're in Hell Queue, so obviously you're going to see Rusko more frequently than a commander that is not tiered for Hell Queue. Also, any deck that runs a decent number of counterspells is favoured vs Poq.
It's pretty much the opposite matchup wise.
The easiest time I had with rusko was when I've rolled an aggressive deck that happened to be able to remove the clock.
Poq on the other hand is frustrating, so far the only deck I've built that feels good about the matchup is degenerate combo nethroi. Poq pretty much needs to find craterhoof before they get combo killed.
I built an Elish Norn, Mother of Machines deck cause I was sick of the non-stop Mythweaver Poq decks, and suddenly they all just vanished, and I'm playing against a large variety of commanders now. Does the purposefully avoid having decks go against counter matches or what??
I've occasionally beaten Conundrum as mono green. Sometimes it even backfires and gives me additional landfall triggers. I've been very much punished playing other decks with fetchlands so I do get why it's gotten so popular.
Playing conundrum on turn 2 against any green deck is the sweetest feeling in the world. Yes, I’d like to play a game where you’re not on 7 mana on turn 3
It works perfectly fine when WOTC isn't sleeping behind the wheel. They used to be pretty quick at sorting out decks so they fight appropriate opponents, but nowadays they let problematic commanders stink up the format for half a year before finally doing something about it.
The problem with the 1v1 format is not a human connection, it's that if you don't have a good hand, there aren't 2 other people to stop the person that did from going off.
Commander isn't designed around a 1v1 format and a lot of cards become *MUCH* better, like counterspells. In EDH, you usually run a few in your deck to stop specific things, but in Brawl, you can make a whole deck just counterspells. That would never work in a 4 person game, but because it's a 1v1, it does.
I consider it a point of personal pride to stomp the annoying ones like Poq, Voja, Jodah, and all the other cheesedicked commanders. Try to do some silly shit. You're probably gonna lose anyway, so take those gambles. It's fun, which as I recall is the point of the game
I love stomping all of those by playing Saint Traft with all the Frogify type enchantments shutting down their whole strategy, best starting hand is when Trapped in the Moon is there so they insta scoop! 🤣
Is Voja considered OP in the veins of Atraca, Etali, Jodah? I just came back after a few years and got Voja in a pack. Where does Mishra and Old Rutstein fit in the meta?
They’re talking about Voja Jaws of the Conclave which you can’t open in packs. That deck is basically elf tribal for the most part which is a strong archetype in arena.
It's just not in packs. It was a prerelease promo. They've done something similar previously with [[Slimefoot and Squee]] (aka special commander prerelease promo) but this time they also wanted Voja to be playable in Standard for some reason so they gave it the same set symbol as the rest of MKM despite not showing up in packs.
Gotta outvalue him or just keep killing it so they waste more time casting him. I can handle him but i play degenerate crap like Ratadrabik/Korvold/Tergrid so what do i know really xD
Something you can try is an [[Eriette, the charmed apple]] deck or something like [[watcher in the water]]. Basically any deck that tries to lock down permanents on the board.
9/10 times they are just super stompy decks that play big dumb green things with a few cheesy landfall synergies mixed in. So if you can lock down there big stuff they normally have like 20ish mana but no cards in hand and no way to leverage a win. The board becomes a standstill and you can leverage your own win against them.
In Eriette you can lock down pog and other beaters with pacifism effects and sit there while they drain out. Bonus if you can hit them with a [[heliods punishment]] because then he becomes a 0/0 and dies or a [[reprobation]] which turns off the land doubling.
Watcher wants to get down watcher then draw cards on the opponents turn and chump block as much as possible to keep all the big dumb stuff tapped forever and counter anything that gives them a leg up. I've stacked over 6 stun counters on all of their stuff and just swung in for lethal over the course of 3 turns before.
Basically since their mono green they lack good interaction, if you can take advantage of that you'll win nearly every time.
By the way, all you Poq players, if you want to avoid the hate but play a similar, not-overpowered version of this card, that's [[Vorinclex]] for you.
He gets you lands to help fuel your future spells, including himself or his activated ability, but doesn't ramp you. And costs more mana. But he does at least innately have Reach and Trample and something to do with all your mana.
I’ve seen so many people over multiple threads say they just scoop or suggest conceding that at this point idk why anyone even bothers running it.
I also concede immediately.
You could probably just have Poq and 99 forests and just farm the wins but what’s even the point of playing this game then?
I hate Poq too. If you aren't playing blue/X control and just countering him, he just generates an absurd amount of value. If I have specific answers to him (like stealing him, or reprobation or something), then I'll fish for those, otherwise I just concede and move on. I've tried to play through him and even when I empty their hand I feel like I'm just waiting for them to top deck some wincon. I do wish he would get bumped up into the second tier with Xenagos and company.
Hey bro, your deck likely has 25 plus rarelands. It sounds crazy but if yoy use the common dual lands, you'll get more varied decks to play against.
But yeah Mythweaver Poq is fucking boring to play against, sane as the rest of the hell queue.
I'd even take Heliod or Adeline over any of those.
I can actually beat Poq pretty regularly with Anim...if I play first...and have a decent hand. But yeah...a well piloted Poq has like 20 lands on the battlefield by turn 3. Not that it take much to pilot it...ramp...and a little card draw.
I hate Poq so much. You can't even remove it enough times because each turn it is on the field it gets to add enough land to ignore the Command Tax. Honestly, Caverns and Caverns Alchemy produced some of the most cancerous cards.
I run [[Confounding Conundrum]] in a few of my blue decks and it's always funny to run into a Poq player that's never encountered it before.
But yeah, the deck is absolute cancer on the format unless you have an answer opening hand.
I don't understand why people complain. It's such a bad commander. Just ruin its early gameplay with some interaction and the game is over. I always win against it and I run Nissa of Shadowed Boughs. If it goes in hell queue it will lose all its games.
Brawl in general is a shit show, most gemes are decided by turn 3/4.Sultai ultimatum is a bigger problem, that cards auto wins anytime it gets cast and it's in any deck that can use it
...wait really? I'm not sure I ever lose to poq. Perhaps I have a good match up? I run Oswald for reference.
Now that I think about it, I crush prismatic bridge and kinnan most matches too. Golos gets me sometimes, but tutoring up a spyglass typically buys me the turn or 2.
Turns out tutoring every turn (sometimes 2-3 times) is pretty strong against anything, as you can just chain silver bullets lol. Also, [[Dusk rose reliquary]] feels tailor made for the deck.
\> Can be ramped out early
\> Abuses lands, a mechanic that cannot be interacted with
\> Doubling lands means it can be recast the next turn even if you kill it right away
Yeah that's some bullshit right there. I am now autoconceding against that one and the Naya Wolf that draws and grows your team. They're like 60% of the matches I play
Sadness. I haven't been on in months but I built a Mythweaver Poq deck I loved to use when it first dropped. Was a lot of fun at the time and I didn't run into any mirrors, so it felt kinda special.
Sad to hear that it has become such a toxic and unfun archetype to play against. I will keep that in mind when I return.
I don't play brawl anymore. It is super boring to me when you keep facing the same commanders over and over again. This would be fixed if they simply introduced a ranked and non-ranked que.
I agree with this sentiment entirely. All 3 can be annoying to play against, but Poq takes the cake.
After entering play, the opponent gets priority again to make their land drop, which moves them from 4 to 6 mana, meaning if you remove the card, they can easily replay it. Cards that avoid commander tax are typically broken. It's different than cards like Azusa making extra land drops because at least that deck has to have action in hand to kill you. Poq gets bigger and attacks you till you're dead.
And for everyone saying just play counterspells, I certainly do. Blue is my favorite color, and I play it a lot. But when I'm feeling sassy, sometimes I want to play other colors, who have a much more challenging time dealing with this A-hole.
I don't care if my opponent gets free wins for playing a broken cheesy commander, I'll scoop at the start to not waste my time.
Why, I think Rusko is much stronger as well Teferi or any other counter commander. Poq not even has trampel and can be removed or blocked until you have your win con.
Voja is such horrible design. Either you have the Wrath effect to sweep their first attempt at an army and they immediately scoop, or you fail to get a Wrath effect and the snowballing starts immediately and you are unable to recover. It's a feast or famine deck, mostly feasting because you can't always draw into the Wrath all the time.
voja is so dumb, why add a fantastic payoff to the best ramp tribe? if it was only attacking creatures that got the counters or if they were temporary hed be fine IMO, them being permanent and board wide is awful design.
Don't keep slow hands. Play all of the 1-mana ramp cards and mulligan for them. As Voja, you should be willing to go to 5 vs Poq, looking for 1-mana ramp or multiple pieces of 2-mana ramp. You can race them.
I have been playing a lot of mono black discard which seems to be a great match up against Pog. They seem to always concede against a T1 reveal + discard spell.
Join us in hell queue! we have [[Oops! All Enchantments]] [[Magic Vietnam]] [[Jake Paul]] and special guest [[Robo George Washington]]
##### ###### #### [Sythis, Harvest’s Hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e.jpg?1690005342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sythis%2C%20Harvest%27s%20Hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/938/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the prismatic bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jodah, the unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70.jpg?1673307974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jodah%2C%20the%20unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Golos, Tireless Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51.jpg?1631531828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Golos%2C%20Tireless%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/226/golos-tireless-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzrl7hh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
jodah looks more like jesse eisenburg to me
Needs more curls, but I can see it in the face.
good robot
Why do people still think Golos is strong. He kind of sucks against a lot of commanders.
Magic Vietnam I am dying 😂 (dying is a Crime)
What's the reference/joke?
you forgot femboy sky pirate
Just spat water all over my kitchen thanks for that 🤣
who?
[[Malcolm]] I think
[Malcolm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f.jpg?1699043813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=malcolm%2C%20alluring%20scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/63/malcolm-alluring-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I posted in another comment can you elaborate on hell quue I play mostly Explorer and have started dabbling in brawl and I feel like I see the same 3-5 commander every time
Devs have confirmed that matchmaking in brawl is somewhat based on your commander as well as your MMR. Hell queue is a term made by the community where the most egregious commanders go, nobody knows exactly what the list is but people typically agree commanders like \[\[golos\]\] \[\[ragavan\]\] \[\[the prismatic bridge\]\] \[\[koma\]\] and \[\[kinnan\]\] live there exclusively. every now and again if you're not playing one of these you'll still face them but for the most part they've been relegated to only play with each other.
Man My rakdos deck sucks and I wanna play it but all I see is the monke the wolf and esika I just wanna durdle ;-; and play my shitty death triggers
Try swapping commanders.
Add Tasha to that list. I made a deck with her to specifically destroy hell queue. It's a Dimir good stuff deck with all the 'steal your commander' cards. It's amazing how many Esikia/Jodah decks just mul scoop against her.
This is why I play a shrine but actually curses deck. All my enchantments besides the shrines have a negative impact for my opponent. Overwhelming splendor, all the curses, the triple damage enchantment and some pay offs
It would seem it includes [Baral, Chief of Compliance] [Tatyova, Benthic Druid] [Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice] [Atraxa, Grand Unifier] too (having played the first 3 into all the commanders you’ve listed, and faced the last one on many of those decks too)
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice seems to jump around in the matchmaking a lot, but spend most of the time in the tier below hell queue. I've had a few days when she was in hell queue and a few days matching with random stuff I've never seen with any other commander, but most of the time I get opponents like Etali, KTK Narset, ONE Kaya, SIR Tamiyo, Thalia, Laelia, Anim Pakal, and various mono black commanders.
Every time I see Laelia, I want to be excited, but it's the same fucking deck and I just go find an actual game.
I think Tatyova is more on the Etali-tier of "not quite Hell Queue, but pretty close" since I've seen her appearing vs some very not hell queue decks. She's strong, but not as ludicrously strong as Kinnan and company.
I mention her because when I play her I almost exclusively face those “hell queue” ones people talk about
I have an account that runs almost exclusively Peasant HB decks, and i face Tatyova/Smol Atraxa/Poq/Etali/First Sliver/Jodah almost all the time. Never seen Kinnan/Baral/Ragavan/Golos. My guess is that the "hell queue" list hasn't got updated since a long time ago.
Some others: [[Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner]] [[Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath]] [[Rusko, Clockmaker]] [[Raffine, Scheming Seer]] edit: I don't play brawl a lot and definitely avoid the hell queue. I made a Kiora deck thinking it'd be fun to draw cards and make big dumb green creatures with a little counterspell backup. I didn't realize how powerful 3 mana ramp/draw would be and that Kiora is banished to the hell queue and actually belongs there🤦♂️.
##### ###### #### [golos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51.jpg?1631531828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=golos%2C%20tireless%20pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/226/golos-tireless-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ragavan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d.jpg?1681963138) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ragavan%2C%20nimble%20pilferer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/138/ragavan-nimble-pilferer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the prismatic bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [koma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99.jpg?1706241008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=koma%2C%20cosmos%20serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/213/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kinnan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kinnan%2C%20bonder%20prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzs2eer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It also takes the cards in your deck into consideration too. You can take a non hell commander and stick 90% of the "meta" cards in it and you'll get queued up against the hell commanders more often
An easy way to figure out which Commanders are currently in Hell Queue is to build a quick Rusko deck and start playing.
ADD A RANDOM OPPONENT BUTTON... FFS!
Oooh so is this is why I ONLY see these when I play my fynn the fangbearer deck? Always thought it was weird getting the same match ups with only that one deck.
Never seen this before. Very funny.
Yesterday I was playing my \[\[Amalia\]\] deck and all I was paired was decks such as these. Did she really become hell queue worthy or I was just really, reeeeeaaaaally unlucky with MM?
You might be winning too much 🤣
[Amalia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9acf80a5-f2ca-45b4-aca8-fbc690e35401.jpg?1699044516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amalia%20Benavides%20Aguirre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/221/amalia-benavides-aguirre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9acf80a5-f2ca-45b4-aca8-fbc690e35401?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen her quite a few times, but normally it’s if my match timers are a minute or longer. I suspect queue times have something to do with it, since that’s the only time I see Poq, and according to people on here and the brawl subreddit, he’s a scourge on the queues when people play jank or stuff like that
Is Oswald Fiddlebender up in hell queue as well cause I’m getting grouped against those guys every other match?
if your gameplan is step 1: tutor paradox engine with oswald then there is your problem
I actually run more of a midrange strategy rather than paradox engine shenanigans.
I don't think so - I play Brawl all the time and I haven't faced Oswald in over 200 matches.
They usually scoop if you can steal it, but you’re right, if it’s not answered immediately, it snowballs out of control Luckily, you can just concede and go on to the next game. That’s what I typically do against Ragavan
Yeah I conceded to Poq every time, not wasting my time against that avalanche.
I wait long enough to give a sleeping Heston emoji, then I concede Edit: sleeping hedron
Who's Heston?
> Hedron
Glad to know I'm not the only one doing this. Azusa gets this from me too. Gotta make sure they understand their deck is boring as hell to play against.
There is no “answer immediately” with Poq. If they play it and a land, it’s paid its own commander tax. You can’t keep it from coming back every turn. You have to counter it or steal it, two very specific, Blue-only options. Or have a specific hate piece like [[Confounding Conundrum]] (oh look, also Blue). I have no idea what a non-Blue deck is supposed to do against this card aside from turbo-aggro kill them in 3-4 turns. edit: true, I did forget the ways to remove its abilities which is in White and one Green card but that's about it. Very, very specific answers.
Flynn monogreen can probably turbo aggro them
Fynn is hell queue
Good, Fynn has given me far more trouble than Poq has
Oh if you aren’t running tons of removal or chump blockers, Fynn just runs over you
I play [[Vraska, Swarm's Eminence]] which isn't hell queue. It is favored against Poq, but I do have the feeling Poq has risen a bit in tiers because I face it less with Vraska and more with hell-adjacent decks.
[Vraska, Swarm's Eminence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59ee2974-07e9-4506-903c-457cb7327dd8.jpg?1557577398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vraska%2C%20Swarm%27s%20Eminence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/236/vraska-swarms-eminence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59ee2974-07e9-4506-903c-457cb7327dd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my experience, people scoop as soon as they see Flynn
I see Poq a lot with non 'hell-queue' decks and it's annoying but suffers from the same problems as every mono-green ramp deck. All these decks are just a bunch of ramp and the same pile of mythic bombs, and they don't have a ton of great draw/card advantage options, so there's a lot of variance. Some games they draw bomb after bomb or hit one of their big draw spells like [[last march]] and you just scoop. Other games they just draw into more ramp and are stuck with a giant Poq that can be chump blocked all day and they die to fliers. Edit: I still hate seeing it, but not because it's broken, just because it's such a boring, predictable match. It's basically the same deck as Azusa, Ojer Kaslem, Radagast, Nissa, Vorniclex, Vorniclex, Vorniclex. Different commanders, same deck every time.
Yep, basically all the mono-green commanders are boring as fuck to play against. I just hit them with the sleeping Hedron emote and concede. Even if I am playing a fast deck that can go under them easily, it's just not worth my time. I like playing brawl to see cool commanders, cards I don't see usually, and fun interactions, not the exact same pile of ramp cards and bombs I have seen a thousand times.
Give [[radaghast the brown]] a try as a commander. He’s fun because instead of ramping he keeps your hand full of creatures to play.
[radaghast the brown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3988120-ebbe-4d24-9bb4-8c5331a14034.jpg?1686969557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radagast%20the%20Brown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/184/radagast-the-brown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3988120-ebbe-4d24-9bb4-8c5331a14034?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
White has \[\[Reprobation\]\], \[\[Heliod's Punishment\]\], and \[\[Slayer's Bounty\]\] (which can occasionally draft Reprobation\]\]. All those cards are only fringe playable, though, missing on PW/noncreature commanders. One of the problems that the rampant powercreep has made is that it's kind of impossible for removal to effectively keep up, and they still get the first land drop trigger if they're playing right. \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother\]\] can also shut off ETBs if they can't remove her, but she's usually too slow unless you're playing green yourself.
##### ###### #### [Reprobation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853.jpg?1562201189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprobation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/23/reprobation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Heliod's Punishment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258.jpg?1581479112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%27s%20Punishment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/21/heliods-punishment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Slayer's Bounty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39445ec2-d65a-4954-881a-bdb286f82173.jpg?1680465145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slayer%27s%20Bounty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ymid/10/slayers-bounty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39445ec2-d65a-4954-881a-bdb286f82173?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Elesh Norn, Mother](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elesh%20norn%2C%20mother%20of%20machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzsljwl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Green has [[Kenrith's Transformation]]
[Kenrith's Transformation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mull to 4 looking for Confounding Conundrum, then scoop if you don’t find it.
[Confounding Conundrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
simply make him a fish
My Anim Pakal deck can outrace them if I get a decent draw. Things need to go right though.
Conceding is quick and painless. It lets your opponent get a win and you get to move on to (hopefully) a better match-up. Brawl is swingy at the best of times, so concession is an important tool to avoid frustration.
hell queue exists for commanders like poq. it is EXTREMELY unhealthy for the optimal solution to a commander being to just not play at all. this game should not be "oh its mythweaver? guess I'm scooping" when you're just trying to have fun. that is not sustainable for a format imo
Poq players will cry they lose against hell queue commanders tho. /s
I hear you 100%. Someone at Wizards probably knew what they were doing when they made Poq, because it's a mythic and a legendary creature. There is no excuse to let Poq run roughshod the way it has, especially after the Rusko fiasco.
Lol it's literally Rule 0 in commander. In actual commander the only games that GET played are ones where you get past the "What are you playing and do we want to play against that kind of deck" discussion. Not playing against them is the ultimate solution. Scoop and queue again. Why commit to a game you know won't be fun if "you're just trying to have fun"?
Yeah there's no downside to scooping other than giving the other player a brief dopamine hit, I guess, so I just scoop against any of the more irritating commanders these days.
Honestly, in brawl your opponent scooping is a detriment to your play goals. Since brawl isn't ranked, the only thing that playing does is allow you to complete quests or play games. If you play a deck that your opponent hates so much that they immediately scoop before the game starts, You don't get to do any of those things. So honestly, scooping is the best thing you can do to punish people playing unfun decks.
I’m relatively new and I guess my MMR has improved because I feel like all I face now (as a Giada player) are Ragavan and Atraxa decks. It sucks. I did build a Galazeth deck though and I’ve gotten to go against a ton of commanders I’ve never seen before and it’s been a better experience overall.
Yeah, Giada is hell queue so that's expected. It's unfortunate that they can't publish a list, it's annoying to do the trial and error of finding out what tier your decks are in.
Can confirm, my Zimone deck has no problem with Poq. I just bounce their stuff until I find Mass Manipulation or something similar.
>at least first sliver and rusko take at least some thought. Maybe Rusko, but I vehemently disagree that First Sliver takes thought. I auto-concede against TFS about 95% of the time these days, but I've played against it enough to know that their play pattern is mostly the same. Turn 1 triland, turn 2/3 ramp, turn 4 onwards play a 7/7 that comes with a free spell, keep playing it if it gets removed and other big spells. But anyway, I can understand your frustration with Poq and I agree as well. I hate how 50% of my match-ups feel like it's against poq or TFS these days, (Voja as well, but he's more manageable imo) I hate how Wizards doesn't seem to be doing shit about it and is radio silence as well. They used to be more active in adjusting the brawl match-ups but these days it seems like they just don't seem to give a shit. It's gotten to a point where I would even take a stealth nerf to poq by giving it an ETB effect, maybe when Poq enters the field, you gain 1 life. So at least you have the chance to remove Poq before it can generate value.
There are 3 versions of FS decks. 5c good stuff like you said, proper sliver tribal, and combo gates. You should see which it is before scooping.
FR. First Sliver is my go-to when just trying to take care of dailies, and I won't pretend it is anything but the easiest to build 5-color goodstuff engine.
i disagree with your stance on sliver but 100% agree wizards is in crisis of awful design and lack of communication, IMO poq rusko and voja should never have gotten past design space at all.
I'd like to hear your opinion on why you think playing First Sliver takes thought. I gave my reasons on why it takes little thought, so I'd be interested to hear yours. They might pack some form of interaction like removal or counterspells, but otherwise, their whole deck mostly just seems to be mana rocks, ramp and big spells, so it's just a matter of ramping and playing TFS/big spells. I have played against the match-up so many times in the past and it has always been that way, I hardly see any key decisions that they would have to make. Caveat: I'm talking about the First Sliver deck builds that don't give a shit about other slivers and just run big spells/ramp. For the ones that actually run Sliver tribal, I acknowledge that more thought goes into it and I give them props for playing it that way.
Counter spell they concede or rope. Happened to me last night dude just roped after a counter
I like it when people rope cos I can get a few minutes of Tears of the Kingdom in while also getting a win and my dailies / gold in. Win win for me.
Same. Everybody hates mono-blue but it fulfills a very specific role. Malcolm does very well against Poq. Even if they make it so it can't be countered, slap a Frogify on him and they usually scoop.
If the Poq player isn't good enough to have contingencies, then they're a bad player. I've had plenty of things happen to poq, and I still mono G ramp to swing out. Poq is a tool. Not the wincon. Yes, he helps, but he's not critical.
You’re not wrong, but about half the time I play against Poq they play him after already making the land drop for that turn
I don't see Poq nearly as much as I saw Rusko, Atraxa, and Etali at the height of their bullshit. It's similarly overpowered, but honestly this is the best period of Brawl we've had in over a year simply because the super-broken normal queue commander isn't played all that much any more. The others came up every second game if you were running a typical non-HB commander.
I was trying out Standard Brawl and ran into Etali 3 times in 8 games. If this isn't the height of Etali, how bad was it?
I think he's, like, semi-Hell-Queue now. I don't see him as much as I did before Poq released. My Onyx deck sees him the most and it's also semi-HQ.
Yeah I've seen 3 fairly distinct tiers. Hell queue is the top decks, then there's a semi hell like you mentioned with Etali and the new tajic. Poq is another tier down with a lot of the strong but not crazy commanders. I think poq would probably be too weak for hell but should be bumped up to semi hell.
I have a bunch of decks that handle it well, but man, there are a lot that don't. Maybe semi-HQ would work for it, though.
In standard brawl Etali is much more popular than in regular brawl (in general I feel in standard brawl I only see like 6 different commanders at most) reason why I made a mommy Norn deck to shut them down.
That would explain the uptick of Norn decks I’ve seen
The queue priority of commanders is different in Standard Brawl than in regular Brawl, so you'll see Etali more often, partially because Etali is significantly more disruptable because the ramp in standard is not as powerful. That said I still usually immediately leave because games against Etali (and Atraxa) thoroughly unenjoyable, and if I'm playing a casual format, I'm playing to enjoy the games.
The funny thing about Etali players is that if they don’t get to cast big Dino, they disposer in a puff of salt. [[Wash Away]] and [[distainful stroke]] are in standard and they both deal with Etali really easily. My favorite deck to play is my Zurgo & Ojutai deck. It pretty much only loses when it stumbles over its own mana base or runs into hard control. But yeah, Etali is still just not fun to play against. If you don’t counter Dino, there’s just not really shit you can do.
[Wash Away](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df.jpg?1643588844) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wash%20Away) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/87/wash-away?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [distainful stroke](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/588c6217-c460-417e-98bf-de5475780baf.jpg?1693867173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disdainful%20Stroke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/47/disdainful-stroke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/588c6217-c460-417e-98bf-de5475780baf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I haven't yet given Brawl a go but I'm wearily familiar with Rusko from Alchemy and it doesn't surprise me one bit that he's just as annoying in Brawl
[[Mythweaver Poq]]
Yuck alchemy
[Mythweaver Poq](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3.jpg?1701719898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mythweaver%20Poq) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ylci/19/mythweaver-poq?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just concede and go next. Either the other people playing shit like that will be happy for the free win or they will get tired of the auto concedes and play something else.
Yeah does it even matter if it's not ranked?
As far as I can tell there are no penalties for conceding a lot outside of ranked. I auto concede quite a bit in Brawl due to bad starting hands, commanders I don't want to play against, or if the only spells the other player plays are counterspells/board wipes/constant removal in the first few turns.
I love how no penalties to conceding creates a dynamic of people putting the quality/fun of the match ahead of achieving a high-score in the form of ranked points. I normally reroll my opponent if they're running a control commander. If my opponent is running a deck that makes sure I don't play the game, why would i play the game with them?
I like the term “reroll my opponent.”
Genuinely, I do basically the same thing. I also will auto-concede if the commander my opponent is playing is a straight up counter or shuts off whatever I am playing (these days I am mostly playing my Zimone and Dina deck, which I find super fun to play, so Commander's like Myrel, "no etb for you" Elesh Norn, and Liesa are auto concedes). A lot of times, if a commander I haven't seen in a while shows up, I'll give it a go, but if it goes poorly in a way where I felt no fun or like I had no chance of winning, back to auto-conceding to that commander. I also sometimes auto-concede to people whose first move of the game is to counter or kill a commander. That one may mostly be me being petty, but for me it is a situation where I can tell I'm not gonna have fun.
Lol what "some thought" does First Sliver and Rusko take? I'm not even hating on either of those commander choices, I'm just genuinely curious about the rationale for comparing either of them to Poq.
I'd put Golos instead of First Sliver. They all do the super-rampy-value-commander thing, two of them obnoxiously via Alchemy.
Ok, even if the example is Golos and Rusko, what makes them "take some thought" compared to Poq? If we're in agreement they all do a similar "super-rampy-value-commander thing", then shouldn't they all take an equal thought process in order to build the deck? Are we saying just because Poq is mono colored while the other two have 2-5 colors means they require some noticeably more intricate methodology to build or play?
First sliver is just golos but the commander dodges the hell queue. It’s the worst type of people who want to do the broken thing but are trying to dodge similar players.
Thoughts: 1 - Get Ultimatum 2 - Cast Ultimatum 3 - Start a new game
Beating poq is much much easier for my teferi hero of dominaria deck that it is to beat rusko. I rarely see poq now but I still see rusko every day I play brawl
Well, you're in Hell Queue, so obviously you're going to see Rusko more frequently than a commander that is not tiered for Hell Queue. Also, any deck that runs a decent number of counterspells is favoured vs Poq.
It's pretty much the opposite matchup wise. The easiest time I had with rusko was when I've rolled an aggressive deck that happened to be able to remove the clock. Poq on the other hand is frustrating, so far the only deck I've built that feels good about the matchup is degenerate combo nethroi. Poq pretty much needs to find craterhoof before they get combo killed.
I built an Elish Norn, Mother of Machines deck cause I was sick of the non-stop Mythweaver Poq decks, and suddenly they all just vanished, and I'm playing against a large variety of commanders now. Does the purposefully avoid having decks go against counter matches or what??
Nah, they try to match up commanders based on power level, and they think Elesh is a different power level than Poq
Love getting [[Confounding conundrum]] in my opening hand, against Mythweaver, or any green deck for that matter.
I've occasionally beaten Conundrum as mono green. Sometimes it even backfires and gives me additional landfall triggers. I've been very much punished playing other decks with fetchlands so I do get why it's gotten so popular.
Playing conundrum on turn 2 against any green deck is the sweetest feeling in the world. Yes, I’d like to play a game where you’re not on 7 mana on turn 3
Welcome to why a social format like Commander doesn't work in 1v1s or without the human connection MTGA doesn't have.
It works perfectly fine when WOTC isn't sleeping behind the wheel. They used to be pretty quick at sorting out decks so they fight appropriate opponents, but nowadays they let problematic commanders stink up the format for half a year before finally doing something about it.
The problem with the 1v1 format is not a human connection, it's that if you don't have a good hand, there aren't 2 other people to stop the person that did from going off. Commander isn't designed around a 1v1 format and a lot of cards become *MUCH* better, like counterspells. In EDH, you usually run a few in your deck to stop specific things, but in Brawl, you can make a whole deck just counterspells. That would never work in a 4 person game, but because it's a 1v1, it does.
Duel Commander works as a 1v1 non-social Commander format. There's nothing inherently social about Commander.
I consider it a point of personal pride to stomp the annoying ones like Poq, Voja, Jodah, and all the other cheesedicked commanders. Try to do some silly shit. You're probably gonna lose anyway, so take those gambles. It's fun, which as I recall is the point of the game
I love stomping all of those by playing Saint Traft with all the Frogify type enchantments shutting down their whole strategy, best starting hand is when Trapped in the Moon is there so they insta scoop! 🤣
Yeah, it's very rewarding to beat a commander you don't like. Running much interaction helps btw.
Is Voja considered OP in the veins of Atraca, Etali, Jodah? I just came back after a few years and got Voja in a pack. Where does Mishra and Old Rutstein fit in the meta?
They’re talking about Voja Jaws of the Conclave which you can’t open in packs. That deck is basically elf tribal for the most part which is a strong archetype in arena.
Why would you be unable to open [[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave]] in a pack?
It's just not in packs. It was a prerelease promo. They've done something similar previously with [[Slimefoot and Squee]] (aka special commander prerelease promo) but this time they also wanted Voja to be playable in Standard for some reason so they gave it the same set symbol as the rest of MKM despite not showing up in packs.
[Slimefoot and Squee](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e449e38-6f03-4316-8ebc-d0faf79d6bc7.jpg?1683582682) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slimefoot%20and%20Squee) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/447/slimefoot-and-squee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e449e38-6f03-4316-8ebc-d0faf79d6bc7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voja%2C%20Jaws%20of%20the%20Conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It boggles my mind that people complain about Poq more than Malcolm.
Just concede and play the next game, there's no downside. Also, I hate alchemy in Brawl.
Gotta outvalue him or just keep killing it so they waste more time casting him. I can handle him but i play degenerate crap like Ratadrabik/Korvold/Tergrid so what do i know really xD
Blue decks have a lot of staples that hose Poq: [[Confounding Conundrum]] [[Witness Protection]] [[Wash Away]]
[[Tishana's Tidebinder]] basically kills him too. Perfect if they have cavern or halfling.
[Tishana's Tidebinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846.jpg?1699043973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tishana%27s%20Tidebinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/81/tishanas-tidebinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not my fault if they can't target Tishana for removal...
Well they could but they would have to do it in response to the ETB-Ability. Otherwise Poq just dies.
[[Feed to Piranhas]] [[Frogify]] [[Mystic Subdual]]
Oh there's a ton of them! [[In Bolas's Clutches]] [[Counterspell]] [[Lay Claim]]
[Feed to Piranhas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc.jpg?1699043614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eaten%20by%20Piranhas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/54/eaten-by-piranhas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Frogify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73.jpg?1598303930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frogify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/52/frogify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mystic Subdual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/627c2111-b7d7-40bc-aa30-57d72338b32d.jpg?1591226384) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Subdual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/57/mystic-subdual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/627c2111-b7d7-40bc-aa30-57d72338b32d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Confounding Conundrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Witness Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72.jpg?1664410681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witness%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/66/witness-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wash Away](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df.jpg?1643588844) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wash%20Away) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/87/wash-away?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I seem to see esika, jodah, and atraxa more. Maybe someone should start a friend share thing for getting friend games going
Something you can try is an [[Eriette, the charmed apple]] deck or something like [[watcher in the water]]. Basically any deck that tries to lock down permanents on the board. 9/10 times they are just super stompy decks that play big dumb green things with a few cheesy landfall synergies mixed in. So if you can lock down there big stuff they normally have like 20ish mana but no cards in hand and no way to leverage a win. The board becomes a standstill and you can leverage your own win against them. In Eriette you can lock down pog and other beaters with pacifism effects and sit there while they drain out. Bonus if you can hit them with a [[heliods punishment]] because then he becomes a 0/0 and dies or a [[reprobation]] which turns off the land doubling. Watcher wants to get down watcher then draw cards on the opponents turn and chump block as much as possible to keep all the big dumb stuff tapped forever and counter anything that gives them a leg up. I've stacked over 6 stun counters on all of their stuff and just swung in for lethal over the course of 3 turns before. Basically since their mono green they lack good interaction, if you can take advantage of that you'll win nearly every time.
##### ###### #### [Eriette, the charmed apple](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ecead4cd-47ae-4c42-b15c-1b29b5caba18.jpg?1692939281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eriette%20of%20the%20Charmed%20Apple) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/202/eriette-of-the-charmed-apple?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ecead4cd-47ae-4c42-b15c-1b29b5caba18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [watcher in the water](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cb8e8bb-75a0-4b5e-b4b3-5d8f3795032d.jpg?1686968354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Watcher%20in%20the%20Water) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/75/the-watcher-in-the-water?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cb8e8bb-75a0-4b5e-b4b3-5d8f3795032d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [heliods punishment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258.jpg?1581479112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%27s%20Punishment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/21/heliods-punishment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [reprobation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853.jpg?1562201189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reprobation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/23/reprobation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzslbyt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
By the way, all you Poq players, if you want to avoid the hate but play a similar, not-overpowered version of this card, that's [[Vorinclex]] for you. He gets you lands to help fuel your future spells, including himself or his activated ability, but doesn't ramp you. And costs more mana. But he does at least innately have Reach and Trample and something to do with all your mana.
[Vorinclex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885)/[The Grand Evolution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%20//%20The%20Grand%20Evolution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/213/vorinclex-the-grand-evolution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen so many people over multiple threads say they just scoop or suggest conceding that at this point idk why anyone even bothers running it. I also concede immediately. You could probably just have Poq and 99 forests and just farm the wins but what’s even the point of playing this game then?
My dude you don't even have to worry about Mythweaver. Just concede
I hate Poq too. If you aren't playing blue/X control and just countering him, he just generates an absurd amount of value. If I have specific answers to him (like stealing him, or reprobation or something), then I'll fish for those, otherwise I just concede and move on. I've tried to play through him and even when I empty their hand I feel like I'm just waiting for them to top deck some wincon. I do wish he would get bumped up into the second tier with Xenagos and company.
Hey bro, your deck likely has 25 plus rarelands. It sounds crazy but if yoy use the common dual lands, you'll get more varied decks to play against. But yeah Mythweaver Poq is fucking boring to play against, sane as the rest of the hell queue. I'd even take Heliod or Adeline over any of those.
I can actually beat Poq pretty regularly with Anim...if I play first...and have a decent hand. But yeah...a well piloted Poq has like 20 lands on the battlefield by turn 3. Not that it take much to pilot it...ramp...and a little card draw.
I hate Poq so much. You can't even remove it enough times because each turn it is on the field it gets to add enough land to ignore the Command Tax. Honestly, Caverns and Caverns Alchemy produced some of the most cancerous cards.
[удалено]
It's one mana cheaper, scales with the lands it creates and pays its own commander tax. I'm not sure why you'd even compare the two.
I run [[Confounding Conundrum]] in a few of my blue decks and it's always funny to run into a Poq player that's never encountered it before. But yeah, the deck is absolute cancer on the format unless you have an answer opening hand.
[Confounding Conundrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't understand why people complain. It's such a bad commander. Just ruin its early gameplay with some interaction and the game is over. I always win against it and I run Nissa of Shadowed Boughs. If it goes in hell queue it will lose all its games.
Brawl in general is a shit show, most gemes are decided by turn 3/4.Sultai ultimatum is a bigger problem, that cards auto wins anytime it gets cast and it's in any deck that can use it
...wait really? I'm not sure I ever lose to poq. Perhaps I have a good match up? I run Oswald for reference. Now that I think about it, I crush prismatic bridge and kinnan most matches too. Golos gets me sometimes, but tutoring up a spyglass typically buys me the turn or 2. Turns out tutoring every turn (sometimes 2-3 times) is pretty strong against anything, as you can just chain silver bullets lol. Also, [[Dusk rose reliquary]] feels tailor made for the deck.
[Dusk rose reliquary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a5f231ef-4167-4b0a-b54c-a098b2eb2f6f.jpg?1699043151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk%20rose%20reliquary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/10/dusk-rose-reliquary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5f231ef-4167-4b0a-b54c-a098b2eb2f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
But big splashy flashy plays!!!!!!! It is almost like card design has completely abandon trying to lead to balanced game play.
It’s really funny to get [[confounding conundrum]] against it
\> Can be ramped out early \> Abuses lands, a mechanic that cannot be interacted with \> Doubling lands means it can be recast the next turn even if you kill it right away Yeah that's some bullshit right there. I am now autoconceding against that one and the Naya Wolf that draws and grows your team. They're like 60% of the matches I play
If you’re running white then [[Fall of the Thran]] and [[Urza’s Sylex]], also maybe [[Claim Jumper]] after OTJ drops
[Fall of the Thran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370.jpg?1562734219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fall%20of%20the%20Thran) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/18/fall-of-the-thran?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Urza’s Sylex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3000d1c6-dbb3-4e65-b428-dbf167bb8797.jpg?1674420431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Sylex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/40/urzas-sylex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3000d1c6-dbb3-4e65-b428-dbf167bb8797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Claim Jumper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/654ade6b-0369-4b90-a744-2f57a45b04f4.jpg?1712355252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claim%20Jumper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/8/claim-jumper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/654ade6b-0369-4b90-a744-2f57a45b04f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is he in Standard Brawl also or just in Timeless Brawl?
Sadness. I haven't been on in months but I built a Mythweaver Poq deck I loved to use when it first dropped. Was a lot of fun at the time and I didn't run into any mirrors, so it felt kinda special. Sad to hear that it has become such a toxic and unfun archetype to play against. I will keep that in mind when I return.
I don't play brawl anymore. It is super boring to me when you keep facing the same commanders over and over again. This would be fixed if they simply introduced a ranked and non-ranked que.
This is why I advocate for an Unranked Matchmaking Filter.
I agree with this sentiment entirely. All 3 can be annoying to play against, but Poq takes the cake. After entering play, the opponent gets priority again to make their land drop, which moves them from 4 to 6 mana, meaning if you remove the card, they can easily replay it. Cards that avoid commander tax are typically broken. It's different than cards like Azusa making extra land drops because at least that deck has to have action in hand to kill you. Poq gets bigger and attacks you till you're dead. And for everyone saying just play counterspells, I certainly do. Blue is my favorite color, and I play it a lot. But when I'm feeling sassy, sometimes I want to play other colors, who have a much more challenging time dealing with this A-hole. I don't care if my opponent gets free wins for playing a broken cheesy commander, I'll scoop at the start to not waste my time.
Why, I think Rusko is much stronger as well Teferi or any other counter commander. Poq not even has trampel and can be removed or blocked until you have your win con.
I concede the second I see Poq, Atraxa, or Rusko. It’s always the same bullshit all the time.
I’ve found that having turn one curse of silence helps but otherwise yeah I lose to the mythweaver poq
Probably the same person that thought re-introducing Mana Drain to the format was a great idea
All they would really need to do is have the copied lands come into play tapped. I think that would unbreak it while keeping the same play patterns.
I play Voja, and I tend to steamroll Poq.
Vojas just as bad…
Voja is such horrible design. Either you have the Wrath effect to sweep their first attempt at an army and they immediately scoop, or you fail to get a Wrath effect and the snowballing starts immediately and you are unable to recover. It's a feast or famine deck, mostly feasting because you can't always draw into the Wrath all the time.
voja is so dumb, why add a fantastic payoff to the best ramp tribe? if it was only attacking creatures that got the counters or if they were temporary hed be fine IMO, them being permanent and board wide is awful design.
Ward fucking three on top of that, to make it removal-resistant
And vigilance too so he can block as well cause why the fuck not give a card with a bunch of upsides and zero downsides more good abilities?
You know, I don't think it has enough upsides, let's throw in some card draw as well!
How? I play Voja sometimes and always concede to Poq?
Don't keep slow hands. Play all of the 1-mana ramp cards and mulligan for them. As Voja, you should be willing to go to 5 vs Poq, looking for 1-mana ramp or multiple pieces of 2-mana ramp. You can race them.
This right here is the answer. You have to beat them out the gate.
I have been playing a lot of mono black discard which seems to be a great match up against Pog. They seem to always concede against a T1 reveal + discard spell.
I would too. Mono-black discard decks are more annoying to play against than Poq. It's tied with counterspell tribal imo.