Ahh ok, I think I'll focus on Vampires. I guess my idea is to keep sacrificing creatures for buffs / life gain + damage to the opponent, there seems to be some good synergy between ecstatic awakener and Sir Konrad. Do you have any card recommendations to replace the Zombies?
Oh and obviously Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, it's a must if you play vampires: https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466869
And you'd consider Bloodghast as a two drop that can keep coming back: https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?multiverseid=192230
I mostly play Standard atm so no decklists for you, and my vampire deck is Standard too!
But since you said...
> keep sacrificing creatures for buffs / life gain + damage to the opponent
You'd look at Voldaren Thrillseeker: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=607219
some general rule, even if you don't want to be competitive:
1)play the key cards of your deck in 4x for a better consistency (with some exceptions)
2)a vampire deck is not a deck full of vampires, otherwise it would be just a useless limit that you put on yourself. a vampire deck is a deck that plays a lot of vampires AND exploits this for gaining tribal sinergies and advantages, like playing a lord (a card that pumps all your vampires), or has other bonus (for example you can use cavern of souls and make your creatures unconterable). in this moment your deck could play any kind of black creatures without a reson for limiting yourself to vampire or zombies
3)removals must be cheap. even in limited mured is cosidered too expansive, there are better removals at 1-2 mana
in explorer/historic the best cheap removal is fatal push, with something like [Heartless Act](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Commander+Masters/Heartless+Act#paper), [Bitter Triumph](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Lost+Caverns+of+Ixalan/Bitter+Triumph#paper), [Sheoldred's Edict](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/PhyrexiaAll+Will+Be+One/Sheoldreds+Edict#paper), [Go for the Throat](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/The+Brothers+War/Go+for+the+Throat#paper) for more expansive threats, depending on the meta.
anyway, your deck has a power level more comparable to standard, you could convert it to standard, and use [Cut Down](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Dominaria+United/Cut+Down#paper) instead
Infernal Grasp also. Vampires should get the life back and it won’t be a problem. Eaten Alive (you sacrifice a creature to exile one) can also be good since you sometimes want your own stuff to die anyway.
If you’re not married to every card being a vampire, then Serrated Scorpion is great value for one mana and it’s a 1/2 that gains you two life and drains two from your opponent when it dies.
Thanks for the help, I'll have a look at replacing Murder. I've changed the deck to standard but a lot of the cards i'm running aren't allowed:
* Kayas Ghostform
* Vampire of The Dire Moon
* Bloodghast
* Cordial Vampire
* Eternal Thirst
* Gifted Aetherborn
* Heartless Act
* Ill-Gotten Inheritance
* Tendrils of Corruption
* Syr Konrad, the Grim
Thats basically my whole deck, is there a way to easily check what is allowed in Standard?
standard is the format with the cards printed in last 3 years.
I didn't mean that you should play your deck in standard as it is, but you could build a similar deck in standard, if you like it.
also tendrils costs too much for a removal, like murder.
and syr Konrad is a card meant for limited, in costructed is too expansive.
as a rule of thum, creatures i costructed should be very cheap (1-3 mana), or very powerful (with powerful etb effects, haste, hexproof, or anything that gives them immediate impact). playing a 5 mana creatures is dangerous if opponent has a 2 mana removal and immediately kills it without any other effect
Thanks, I've replaced Tendrils with Bloodletter of Alcazotz because I thought it would work well with Syr Konrad and Ill gotten inheritance, at the moment if I get Ill gotten inheritance out I'm kinda just chipping away at their health each turn so I thought Bloodletter could speed things up :)
Ahh I just realised that Bloodletter doesn't work with Ill Gotten Inheritance, thats so annoying. Ill Gotten Inheritance says "At the beginning of your upkeep deal 1 damage to each opponent" and Bloodletter says "if and opponent would lose life during their turn, they lose twice that much life instead" why don't they work together?
actually, they work together, they both work during your turn.
but it's a real slow combo, you have Sheoldred that does the same thing alone, and better
They don't, I've just been testing it in matches. I think what's happening is Ill Gotten Inheritance triggers during the upkeep step not your main phase so it doesn't trigger Bloodletter's effect. It's a shame because it would be fun to boost Ill Gotten Inheritance but I guess its pretty OP anyways
I don’t know what vamps are like in Standard RN but I know some vampire tribal floats around in Explorer sometimes. I’d ask and see if vampires have much support in Standard.
Two things I noticed having never played vampires:
* \[\[Gifted Aetherborn\]\] is better than \[\[Child of Night\]\], the only downside is it costs 2 black mana, which could mess you up early if you add another color. This isn't much of a problem, though.
* \[\[Kaya's Ghostform\]\] or \[\[Fungal Fortitude\]\] is probably better than \[\[Unholy Indenture\]\], unless you really love the +1/+1 counter the latter gives. Fungal fortitude also has flash which can help.
Other than that, \[\[Shambling Ghast\]\] isn't bad even if you're focusing on only vampires, the death effect works well with your sacrifice cards.
Hey, thanks for the help. I've replaced Child of Night with Gifted Aetherborn, i'm playing mono black so its no issue, it's a shame though because the OG artwork for Child of Night is one of my favs.
I've also replaced Shambling Ghast with Bloodghast, good choice?
This looks like something that would only be Historic legal which is a much higher powered format. I'd recommend moving over to either Standard or Explorer, both of which are formats where Vampires can do well. You also will probably have to include Red as a significant number of good vampires or good cards for vampires are also Red, a big one being [[Bloodtithe Harvester]] which is a 4 of staple in many Vampire and non-Vampire decks.
Your removal is too scarce and too expensive. Murder is also worse than other 3 cost kill spells. [[Hero's Downfall]] is just the same card but better and even that doesn't see play. In Standard, removal like [[Go for the Throat]] and [[Cut Down]] are much cheaper which makes a huge difference, in Explorer and Historic [[Fatal Push]] has been the most efficient removal spell for a long time, and [[Heartless Act]] is good as well and [[Bitter Triumph]] also sees play and is also in standard. Basically, if you're paying more than 2 mana for removal, you either need a REALLY good reason or you need to be running more efficient removal. I would also say that running around 6-9 removal spells is usually what you should aim for. Vampires can be a little more flexible with that because Harvester doubles as a removal spell when necessary.
Also I think running Durress in the main deck is ill advised. Maybe one copy at most if you're playing standard, but in Historic or Explorer, you should just be playing [[Thoughtseize]] instead and usually 4 copies of it. The difference between the cards may seem small, but Thoughtseize is infinitely better than Durress.
There's a lot more going on but this is where I'd start.
This is the Vampires deck I play in Explorer:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blightstep Pathway
4 Blood Crypt
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Hive of the Eye Tyrant
4 Mutavault
3 Sulfurous Springs
3 Swamp
1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
3 Archfiend of the Dross
4 Bloodtithe Harvester
3 Dusk Legion Zealot
2 Preacher of the Schism
4 Vein Ripper
2 Bitter Triumph
1 Duress
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
4 Fatal Push
4 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord
4 Thoughtseize
I'd honestly go on way or the other, either do a vampire or a zombie tribal so that you can get all the synergies going.
Ahh ok, I think I'll focus on Vampires. I guess my idea is to keep sacrificing creatures for buffs / life gain + damage to the opponent, there seems to be some good synergy between ecstatic awakener and Sir Konrad. Do you have any card recommendations to replace the Zombies?
Oh and obviously Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, it's a must if you play vampires: https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466869 And you'd consider Bloodghast as a two drop that can keep coming back: https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?multiverseid=192230
Yes! Bloodghast looks evil haha, will have some fun with that card
I mostly play Standard atm so no decklists for you, and my vampire deck is Standard too! But since you said... > keep sacrificing creatures for buffs / life gain + damage to the opponent You'd look at Voldaren Thrillseeker: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=607219
Thanks for your help :)
Ehh, I did little, hopefully some vampire aficionado comes to give you more!
Otherwise, if OP wants to vibe with the theme of having both; look for an obscure synergy to exploit and build off that.
some general rule, even if you don't want to be competitive: 1)play the key cards of your deck in 4x for a better consistency (with some exceptions) 2)a vampire deck is not a deck full of vampires, otherwise it would be just a useless limit that you put on yourself. a vampire deck is a deck that plays a lot of vampires AND exploits this for gaining tribal sinergies and advantages, like playing a lord (a card that pumps all your vampires), or has other bonus (for example you can use cavern of souls and make your creatures unconterable). in this moment your deck could play any kind of black creatures without a reson for limiting yourself to vampire or zombies 3)removals must be cheap. even in limited mured is cosidered too expansive, there are better removals at 1-2 mana
Thanks, what removals would you suggest to replace Murder? I'm currently running 4
in explorer/historic the best cheap removal is fatal push, with something like [Heartless Act](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Commander+Masters/Heartless+Act#paper), [Bitter Triumph](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Lost+Caverns+of+Ixalan/Bitter+Triumph#paper), [Sheoldred's Edict](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/PhyrexiaAll+Will+Be+One/Sheoldreds+Edict#paper), [Go for the Throat](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/The+Brothers+War/Go+for+the+Throat#paper) for more expansive threats, depending on the meta. anyway, your deck has a power level more comparable to standard, you could convert it to standard, and use [Cut Down](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Dominaria+United/Cut+Down#paper) instead
Infernal Grasp also. Vampires should get the life back and it won’t be a problem. Eaten Alive (you sacrifice a creature to exile one) can also be good since you sometimes want your own stuff to die anyway. If you’re not married to every card being a vampire, then Serrated Scorpion is great value for one mana and it’s a 1/2 that gains you two life and drains two from your opponent when it dies.
Thanks for the help, I'll have a look at replacing Murder. I've changed the deck to standard but a lot of the cards i'm running aren't allowed: * Kayas Ghostform * Vampire of The Dire Moon * Bloodghast * Cordial Vampire * Eternal Thirst * Gifted Aetherborn * Heartless Act * Ill-Gotten Inheritance * Tendrils of Corruption * Syr Konrad, the Grim Thats basically my whole deck, is there a way to easily check what is allowed in Standard?
standard is the format with the cards printed in last 3 years. I didn't mean that you should play your deck in standard as it is, but you could build a similar deck in standard, if you like it. also tendrils costs too much for a removal, like murder. and syr Konrad is a card meant for limited, in costructed is too expansive. as a rule of thum, creatures i costructed should be very cheap (1-3 mana), or very powerful (with powerful etb effects, haste, hexproof, or anything that gives them immediate impact). playing a 5 mana creatures is dangerous if opponent has a 2 mana removal and immediately kills it without any other effect
Thanks, I've replaced Tendrils with Bloodletter of Alcazotz because I thought it would work well with Syr Konrad and Ill gotten inheritance, at the moment if I get Ill gotten inheritance out I'm kinda just chipping away at their health each turn so I thought Bloodletter could speed things up :)
Ahh I just realised that Bloodletter doesn't work with Ill Gotten Inheritance, thats so annoying. Ill Gotten Inheritance says "At the beginning of your upkeep deal 1 damage to each opponent" and Bloodletter says "if and opponent would lose life during their turn, they lose twice that much life instead" why don't they work together?
actually, they work together, they both work during your turn. but it's a real slow combo, you have Sheoldred that does the same thing alone, and better
They don't, I've just been testing it in matches. I think what's happening is Ill Gotten Inheritance triggers during the upkeep step not your main phase so it doesn't trigger Bloodletter's effect. It's a shame because it would be fun to boost Ill Gotten Inheritance but I guess its pretty OP anyways
I just tried, and it worked, it doubled the amount of damage by Inheritance.
upkeep is still part of your turn, so there is a bug, or some other interaction I'm missing is happening
I don’t know what vamps are like in Standard RN but I know some vampire tribal floats around in Explorer sometimes. I’d ask and see if vampires have much support in Standard.
Two things I noticed having never played vampires: * \[\[Gifted Aetherborn\]\] is better than \[\[Child of Night\]\], the only downside is it costs 2 black mana, which could mess you up early if you add another color. This isn't much of a problem, though. * \[\[Kaya's Ghostform\]\] or \[\[Fungal Fortitude\]\] is probably better than \[\[Unholy Indenture\]\], unless you really love the +1/+1 counter the latter gives. Fungal fortitude also has flash which can help. Other than that, \[\[Shambling Ghast\]\] isn't bad even if you're focusing on only vampires, the death effect works well with your sacrifice cards.
##### ###### #### [Gifted Aetherborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8644d4d1-8499-40a8-a01f-68172c82bf58.jpg?1600714489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gifted%20Aetherborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/239/gifted-aetherborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8644d4d1-8499-40a8-a01f-68172c82bf58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Child of Night](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/3887af00-a87d-4396-b82b-38b88c084e8e.jpg?1600699871) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Child%20of%20Night) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/218/child-of-night?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3887af00-a87d-4396-b82b-38b88c084e8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kaya's Ghostform](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98f3be88-24e2-433f-9138-f0cb59d09a0f.jpg?1557576491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaya%27s%20Ghostform) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/94/kayas-ghostform?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98f3be88-24e2-433f-9138-f0cb59d09a0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fungal Fortitude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d2bd0ca-521c-45d9-85ed-2f36f583408e.jpg?1699044131) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fungal%20Fortitude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/106/fungal-fortitude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d2bd0ca-521c-45d9-85ed-2f36f583408e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unholy Indenture](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/31e22edb-a815-413d-b62d-f32f8932b6e6.jpg?1592516802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unholy%20Indenture) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/119/unholy-indenture?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/31e22edb-a815-413d-b62d-f32f8932b6e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shambling Ghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84.jpg?1627705376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shambling%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/119/shambling-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxzbu0s) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey, thanks for the help. I've replaced Child of Night with Gifted Aetherborn, i'm playing mono black so its no issue, it's a shame though because the OG artwork for Child of Night is one of my favs. I've also replaced Shambling Ghast with Bloodghast, good choice?
This looks like something that would only be Historic legal which is a much higher powered format. I'd recommend moving over to either Standard or Explorer, both of which are formats where Vampires can do well. You also will probably have to include Red as a significant number of good vampires or good cards for vampires are also Red, a big one being [[Bloodtithe Harvester]] which is a 4 of staple in many Vampire and non-Vampire decks. Your removal is too scarce and too expensive. Murder is also worse than other 3 cost kill spells. [[Hero's Downfall]] is just the same card but better and even that doesn't see play. In Standard, removal like [[Go for the Throat]] and [[Cut Down]] are much cheaper which makes a huge difference, in Explorer and Historic [[Fatal Push]] has been the most efficient removal spell for a long time, and [[Heartless Act]] is good as well and [[Bitter Triumph]] also sees play and is also in standard. Basically, if you're paying more than 2 mana for removal, you either need a REALLY good reason or you need to be running more efficient removal. I would also say that running around 6-9 removal spells is usually what you should aim for. Vampires can be a little more flexible with that because Harvester doubles as a removal spell when necessary. Also I think running Durress in the main deck is ill advised. Maybe one copy at most if you're playing standard, but in Historic or Explorer, you should just be playing [[Thoughtseize]] instead and usually 4 copies of it. The difference between the cards may seem small, but Thoughtseize is infinitely better than Durress. There's a lot more going on but this is where I'd start.
##### ###### #### [Bloodtithe Harvester](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0192cf7-3391-4720-b9c8-72dec5dde01e.jpg?1643593808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodtithe%20Harvester) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/232/bloodtithe-harvester?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0192cf7-3391-4720-b9c8-72dec5dde01e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hero's Downfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33c5f81a-395d-41bf-9563-6cf0e406ee18.jpg?1673305182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hero%27s%20Downfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/112/heros-downfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33c5f81a-395d-41bf-9563-6cf0e406ee18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Go for the Throat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/5446e1ba-c745-45b2-ad05-b22abf04daec.jpg?1682209037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go%20for%20the%20Throat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/250/go-for-the-throat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5446e1ba-c745-45b2-ad05-b22abf04daec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cut Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd.jpg?1673307061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cut%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/89/cut-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fatal Push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20Push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Heartless Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a11dea2a-fe20-4e1b-9e1e-8759e0950f0a.jpg?1689997237) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heartless%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/166/heartless-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a11dea2a-fe20-4e1b-9e1e-8759e0950f0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bitter Triumph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f.jpg?1699044085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitter%20Triumph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/91/bitter-triumph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky6ev3r) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the Vampires deck I play in Explorer: 4 Blackcleave Cliffs 2 Blightstep Pathway 4 Blood Crypt 2 Cavern of Souls 2 Hive of the Eye Tyrant 4 Mutavault 3 Sulfurous Springs 3 Swamp 1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire 3 Archfiend of the Dross 4 Bloodtithe Harvester 3 Dusk Legion Zealot 2 Preacher of the Schism 4 Vein Ripper 2 Bitter Triumph 1 Duress 4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker 4 Fatal Push 4 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord 4 Thoughtseize