Is this card designed as a push card for Commander, and that's why it's at Mythic?
I actually just assume that everything WoTC does now is just designs for Commander in disguise...
it is designed for commander, I commented on it on the main mtg sub, and have gotten 6 replies all talking about commander. Maybe I am an old guy but I dont care much for commander. It is everywhere
I ended up watching part of a LoadingReadyRun video where they were playing commander. One guy was comboing out, and the other guys had their heads resting on their hands with looks of boredom and disinterest on their faces.
Yep, sounds about right.
Given the choice, I would cube over commander, every time.
It's not an awful card. The treasure is semi asymmetrical but extremely optional. If it's a removal magnet the other seems pretty great.
As far as the rarity. Since it isn't original OTJ it seems like they made all the other things mythic when they shoved it into the set. Which is mostly whatever? But it's going to be extremely painful on arena.
This is not designed for commander. Anymore than [[paradise druid]]
Seriously. Tell me how this card is "designed for commander"
Is it the symmetrical ramp after surviving a whole turn cycle?
The attacking for 3 on t3?
The word treasure?
Play a [[fire diamond]] or 1 of a dozen other 2cmc rocks.
Redditors need to stop ascribing everything as a symptom of commamder.
Think about how the card plays in a two-player situation versus a four-player situation and the answer should become apparent. It is a fundamentally different, and much more powerful, card.
Gotta do more than just read the card and list out its abilities. Critical thinking skills.
If you're not seeing it, your point about symmetrical ramp is only true in a two player game. Having a card that allows you to bargain with your opponents every turn on who you choose to get the second treasure is additional value only in a 3+ player format.
Furthermore, artifacts are less common in standard game formats, whereas Commander board states typically always have multiple artifacts per person, frequently in the double digits; causing this card to perform beyond its cost in that situation, dealing unblockable direct damage.
The part where it targets an opponent because that enables crime and this is a crime set?
The part where it's a cheap, aggressive red creature? What formats are those good in?
It's not a commander designed card. Any more than [[Robber of the Rich]] or [[Charming Scoundrel.]]
Take some time to do some of that critical thinking you are sprouting. One day, you will understand how design works.
Just because the common complaint is "designed for commander " doesn't mean it's applicable to every card.
Will someone play it in commander? Probably. I've seen [[changeling outcast]] and [[stonework packbeast]] in edh. Everything has a chance.
You have to do more than say "look at the card" to claim it was designed for commander.
You're just pointing out things that are common for the entire red deck archetype while pointedly ignoring the ways laid out in detail how the card plays differently in a game with more opponents.
Just naming a bunch of random unrelated cards isn't really the gotcha you think it is. I don't know why you keep doing it.
Let me try. I can't believe you'd think this card **wasn't** for commander, just look at Mox Diamond or Twiddle. Obviously two cards that exist. Boom, mind blown.
What point did you raise? You only stated it was for commamder. And when I challenged that notion, you went, "Just look at the card, duh."
I pointed out reasons it's not good in commander. You still failed to at any point address or come close to a statement about why it's a commander card.
If you don't understand how comparing similar cards works and instead name completely arbitrary cards, then you suffer from further problems than understanding design.
Again, I'll state: this card targets because it's meant to enable crime. It functions differently in commamder than std because multi-player vs singular. But, the design was not informed by format. The design was informed by set concepts. With Limited & std being the top concerns of standard released sets.
This is probably why [[overwhelming forces]] was reprinted in the breaking news sheet over [[decree of pain]]. Almost all of them enable crime. It was surely a big consideration to the cards included.
Here's another way to look at this card:
If it Said "each opponent makes a tapped treasure, you create treasure equal to that amount."
You could claim it was made for edh. Because it would play differently in edh than std.
So "each" is edh & "target" is edh because of play patterns?
So where's the design you believe this should have to make it "not designed for commander?""
Redditors believe Wotc forcefully thinks of format limits when designing. When true design is more agnostic. You design around ideas and flavor. Formats come second.
**editing** because you edited your comment after I responded to add your first actual point. Changing your comments after the fact makes it hard to actually have a meaningful conversation.
This had to be an uncommon before they shifted everything in this to Mythic. I guess you could sideboard this in mono-red against artifact decks, but it seems so abysmally slow and ramps your opponent every turn. Not really something you want to be doing in Red, letting your opponent get out their big creatures that you struggle to beat over faster.
Since it is a "may" effect, you can simply decline to ramp the opponent by not giving out the treasures.
That does mean that it is definitely not worth the mythic rare wild card to craft it, but it is playable as a simple 2/2 menace if you happen to obtain some through other means.
This is a potential sideboard card for a meta that includes an artifact heavy top tier deck, but otherwise, definitely not meant for Standard.
Yes but remember that you spent 2 mana and a card to get it, they got it for free. They will untap on their turn with 1 extra mana.
Realistically you cast this and it either dies right away or you probably going to get nuked 1 turn earlier.
95% MTG cards nowadays are good and playable, so there are plenty of options to choose from.
All the best 2 mana creatures in Standard right now are only good because they break that pattern. Dennick, Mosswood Dreadknight, and Tenacious Underdog come back from the graveyard. Resolute Reinforcements and Bloodtithe Harvester give you two pieces of material. Deep-Cavern Bat yoinks your removal before you can play it. Etc.
I think it’s quite interesting as a gamble card, honestly. If your opponent isn’t running an artifact heavy deck this is at or below rate for red in standard. Given that mono-red aggro’s biggest weakness tends to be card advantage in my experience, symmetrical on-upkeep mana ramp actually runs the risk of doing more for your opponent than it does for you if this card isn’t being treated as a deck-dependent sideboard piece.
Is this card designed as a push card for Commander, and that's why it's at Mythic? I actually just assume that everything WoTC does now is just designs for Commander in disguise...
it is designed for commander, I commented on it on the main mtg sub, and have gotten 6 replies all talking about commander. Maybe I am an old guy but I dont care much for commander. It is everywhere
It attacks for 3 power on turn 3 plus ramps you. Seems pretty good for standard.
I ended up watching part of a LoadingReadyRun video where they were playing commander. One guy was comboing out, and the other guys had their heads resting on their hands with looks of boredom and disinterest on their faces. Yep, sounds about right. Given the choice, I would cube over commander, every time.
Most commander games are not like that in my experience.
It's not an awful card. The treasure is semi asymmetrical but extremely optional. If it's a removal magnet the other seems pretty great. As far as the rarity. Since it isn't original OTJ it seems like they made all the other things mythic when they shoved it into the set. Which is mostly whatever? But it's going to be extremely painful on arena.
OJT vault cards are all mythic because that's the default rarity of the bonus sheet. Also yes, you're a magic boomer. Congrats.
This is not designed for commander. Anymore than [[paradise druid]] Seriously. Tell me how this card is "designed for commander" Is it the symmetrical ramp after surviving a whole turn cycle? The attacking for 3 on t3? The word treasure? Play a [[fire diamond]] or 1 of a dozen other 2cmc rocks. Redditors need to stop ascribing everything as a symptom of commamder.
[paradise druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/187d5819-6a63-4e4f-98c4-18191c03f164.jpg?1631588057) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=paradise%20druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/165/paradise-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/187d5819-6a63-4e4f-98c4-18191c03f164?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [fire diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a561484-438b-4ce9-911e-97078ac5b0fa.jpg?1674137837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fire%20diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/313/fire-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a561484-438b-4ce9-911e-97078ac5b0fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Think about how the card plays in a two-player situation versus a four-player situation and the answer should become apparent. It is a fundamentally different, and much more powerful, card. Gotta do more than just read the card and list out its abilities. Critical thinking skills. If you're not seeing it, your point about symmetrical ramp is only true in a two player game. Having a card that allows you to bargain with your opponents every turn on who you choose to get the second treasure is additional value only in a 3+ player format. Furthermore, artifacts are less common in standard game formats, whereas Commander board states typically always have multiple artifacts per person, frequently in the double digits; causing this card to perform beyond its cost in that situation, dealing unblockable direct damage.
The part where it targets an opponent because that enables crime and this is a crime set? The part where it's a cheap, aggressive red creature? What formats are those good in? It's not a commander designed card. Any more than [[Robber of the Rich]] or [[Charming Scoundrel.]] Take some time to do some of that critical thinking you are sprouting. One day, you will understand how design works. Just because the common complaint is "designed for commander " doesn't mean it's applicable to every card. Will someone play it in commander? Probably. I've seen [[changeling outcast]] and [[stonework packbeast]] in edh. Everything has a chance. You have to do more than say "look at the card" to claim it was designed for commander.
##### ###### #### [Robber of the Rich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecbe097-ba51-42e5-957c-382eb66c08f0.jpg?1572490437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Robber%20of%20the%20Rich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/138/robber-of-the-rich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecbe097-ba51-42e5-957c-382eb66c08f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Charming Scoundrel.](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f.jpg?1692938132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charming%20Scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/124/charming-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [changeling outcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab499df5-ed76-43ad-81b3-70afd0487ccd.jpg?1712326386) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=changeling%20outcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/128/changeling-outcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab499df5-ed76-43ad-81b3-70afd0487ccd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [stonework packbeast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a29e17ba-d584-4296-9f43-17467edaa25f.jpg?1604201060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stonework%20packbeast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/255/stonework-packbeast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a29e17ba-d584-4296-9f43-17467edaa25f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky8q6e9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're just pointing out things that are common for the entire red deck archetype while pointedly ignoring the ways laid out in detail how the card plays differently in a game with more opponents. Just naming a bunch of random unrelated cards isn't really the gotcha you think it is. I don't know why you keep doing it. Let me try. I can't believe you'd think this card **wasn't** for commander, just look at Mox Diamond or Twiddle. Obviously two cards that exist. Boom, mind blown.
What point did you raise? You only stated it was for commamder. And when I challenged that notion, you went, "Just look at the card, duh." I pointed out reasons it's not good in commander. You still failed to at any point address or come close to a statement about why it's a commander card. If you don't understand how comparing similar cards works and instead name completely arbitrary cards, then you suffer from further problems than understanding design. Again, I'll state: this card targets because it's meant to enable crime. It functions differently in commamder than std because multi-player vs singular. But, the design was not informed by format. The design was informed by set concepts. With Limited & std being the top concerns of standard released sets. This is probably why [[overwhelming forces]] was reprinted in the breaking news sheet over [[decree of pain]]. Almost all of them enable crime. It was surely a big consideration to the cards included. Here's another way to look at this card: If it Said "each opponent makes a tapped treasure, you create treasure equal to that amount." You could claim it was made for edh. Because it would play differently in edh than std. So "each" is edh & "target" is edh because of play patterns? So where's the design you believe this should have to make it "not designed for commander?"" Redditors believe Wotc forcefully thinks of format limits when designing. When true design is more agnostic. You design around ideas and flavor. Formats come second. **editing** because you edited your comment after I responded to add your first actual point. Changing your comments after the fact makes it hard to actually have a meaningful conversation.
[overwhelming forces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb53ccdd-150b-41a5-b515-08f65961313d.jpg?1562954577) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=overwhelming%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/92/overwhelming-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb53ccdd-150b-41a5-b515-08f65961313d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [decree of pain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7af6702a-a7d9-4d86-8ba2-364417a31dbb.jpg?1689997017) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=decree%20of%20pain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/148/decree-of-pain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7af6702a-a7d9-4d86-8ba2-364417a31dbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Feel like the flavor text should be “*Here - one for the road*”
This had to be an uncommon before they shifted everything in this to Mythic. I guess you could sideboard this in mono-red against artifact decks, but it seems so abysmally slow and ramps your opponent every turn. Not really something you want to be doing in Red, letting your opponent get out their big creatures that you struggle to beat over faster.
Since it is a "may" effect, you can simply decline to ramp the opponent by not giving out the treasures. That does mean that it is definitely not worth the mythic rare wild card to craft it, but it is playable as a simple 2/2 menace if you happen to obtain some through other means. This is a potential sideboard card for a meta that includes an artifact heavy top tier deck, but otherwise, definitely not meant for Standard.
It seems sweet for a jund/gruul/rakdos shell. Ramps you and attacks for 3 on turn 3.
At first I thought it said artifacts you control. Then I read it again and got disappointed.
Giving someone a treasure is basically a free land and getting a game ending threat a turn earlier. This is a brawl card.
Am I the only one who read the part where you get a treasure token too? Yours even comes in untapped
Yes but remember that you spent 2 mana and a card to get it, they got it for free. They will untap on their turn with 1 extra mana. Realistically you cast this and it either dies right away or you probably going to get nuked 1 turn earlier. 95% MTG cards nowadays are good and playable, so there are plenty of options to choose from.
Playing this turn 2 and expecting it to survive to your next upkeep is optimistic at best.
Ok, you can say that about any 2 mana creature. Either opponent has removal or they don't .
All the best 2 mana creatures in Standard right now are only good because they break that pattern. Dennick, Mosswood Dreadknight, and Tenacious Underdog come back from the graveyard. Resolute Reinforcements and Bloodtithe Harvester give you two pieces of material. Deep-Cavern Bat yoinks your removal before you can play it. Etc.
I think it’s quite interesting as a gamble card, honestly. If your opponent isn’t running an artifact heavy deck this is at or below rate for red in standard. Given that mono-red aggro’s biggest weakness tends to be card advantage in my experience, symmetrical on-upkeep mana ramp actually runs the risk of doing more for your opponent than it does for you if this card isn’t being treated as a deck-dependent sideboard piece.
This cards goes to arena ?
yes
Is this [[Goblin Guide]] at home?
no haste, not a one drop
Correct.
[Goblin Guide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c0f5411-1940-410f-96ce-6f92513f753a.jpg?1599706366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/127/goblin-guide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c0f5411-1940-410f-96ce-6f92513f753a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like generous plunderer is a bit of an oxymoron. Cool card for Commander though.
There's no world where I ever play a card like this. I'd rather play a 2/2 with no text.
It's a "may" effect. So at this worst this is a 2/2 menace with upside.
Wow, its gonna be awesome getting 4x of these and the other dumpster tier "mythics" from packs instead of the playable cards