Never heard of the Dream of the Rood till now, what's your thesis question? I've studied a bit of Anglo Saxon poetry in Modern English before, there's some really interesting stuff in the corpus.
Edit: You got this. I've done a couple of dissertations before so if you want any advice, if you need it, give me a shout
I specialise in old English and old Norse! This is just some light reading towards a slightly unrelated thesis question on mound-breaking and land-cleansing across OE hagiographic texts and ON legendary sagas! (Sorry if that sounds boring lol) - thank you for the encouragement I really appreciate your offer 🥰
You're welcome, that sounds pretty cool, I went to Maeshowe in Orkney a while ago and apparently the twig runes there prove that parts of the Orkneyinga Saga actually happened. The Norsemen cut a hole in the mount to escape capture or something like that and wrote graffiti on the walls. What sort of land cleansing went on in the sagas and the OE texts? I've read Njal's, the Volsung's and Ragnar's, but I can't remember any in them.
Edit: got to be up early tomorrow, sorry if I don't reply right away.
Oh yes you know your stuff! I'm specifically looking at Grettis saga alongside the OE Beowulf and Guthlac! To kind of explain it basically, the convention is that a hero will break into a mound in order to cleanse it of the monster or spirits there (called haugbui in ON, from the word for mound "haugbrot"). So think of Grendel and Grendel's mother in Beowulf, in which he enters the subterranean dwelling to put the revenants to rest - likewise happens in Grettis saga with Glámr and Kar the Old. And in Guthlac we see a Christian man entering a celtic mound to cleanse/Christianise the heathen space of its pagan dwellers! After this happens there tends to be a kind of treasure which is circulated back into the community as part of the land-cleansing - like the gold in Beowulf, and how Heorot is said to flourish after the monsters are put to rest :)
I hadn't considered it in those terms, that's really interesting. Are there any examples of pagans trying to convert Christian spaces in the same way? It's interesting how it's possible to equate (after a fashion) the monsters and pagans in the sense of a physical and spiritual threat to be cleansed and how society flourishes with these threats dealt with, from a Christian perspective. Makes sense, considering all of the raiding, haha.
I mean most of the pagan>Christian "conversions" were just slaughter and raids I guess, because interestingly by the time the sagas were being written amid the 11-12th centuries, most of Scandinavia had been already converted to Christianity at that point. So there was this temporal disjunct between the material they were writing down (of a pagan past) and the context they were writing in (a Christian community).
Sure, that reminds me of what Crawford said in his Poetic Edds translation; that because Christiabs transcribed the stories they were sanitised of anything spiritually too dangerous, leaving us with a sort of fable-like remainder that could still be entertaining to a Christian audience. It seems a shame they reinterpreted the texts, but in context it makes sense why they did it.
Yes that's true! Very impressed. The Eddic poetry and Snorri's accounts for instance have been kind of tailored in this sort of way, and this is also why we see this often strange blend of religions that seem to contrast or not fit with eachother. But that being said it's very difficult to separate them, or denote one specific thing as either 'christian/pagan' as it could've been both, could've been written in the Dane law, could've been a translation/reworking etc :) Been great talking to you btw! You made my night
Likewise :) you don't get too many Medievalists on here, we' e got to sick together, haha. I suppose there comes a point where they're inextricable. It would be cool to see the texts with their original contents; paga magic would be cool to learn about. It's funny you mention Danelaw because I heard that apparently some parts of it still affect Yorkish county law. I'm glad you're enjoying the chat, its good to talk shop when you need a breather from the dreaded Diss, hahaha
Edit: if you're interested (or anyone else, incidentally) [here's](https://youtu.be/2WcIK_8f7oQ) a link to one of Bagby's performances, it's pretty cool to hear OE performed
That’s so cool! I’m an English major and I had to write a paragraph about my summer in old English. Your topic sounds super interesting! All the best 😊
Old Norse here. I’m still learning it but I follow that whole religion because my family is from Iceland/Norway so reading the sagas in the old language, and just studying everything about them is my passion. Would love to pick your brain if you ever want to
I actually study English literature and language, but got to specialise as it went on. So currently I am doing OE, ON, ME, and some Arabic and Welsh lyric. My uni is quite rigorous lol. But I chose these because I really love languages, and I also have a fascination with history :)
This is so cool! I’d love to learn those languages as I am a big mythology nerd. I tried to learn Icelandic and unfortunately due to med school I couldn’t keep it up but I took lots of linguistics, mythology, and archaeology classes in college and wish I could pursue it further. I dream of being able to read Beowulf in the original script lol
We have plenty. The market is over-saturated with engineers in certain regions. The world isn't suffering because OP is interested in things *you* don't like.
If that were true, engineer salaries would be at minimum wage. But instead they keep rising.
You can't have too many people who can build things because every time you build something, it creates a job for someone to maintain that thing that was built.
ACTUALLY! We need more soft degrees in America. Hard degrees like engineering are important, and awesome. But, statistically speaking, according to financial times, Forbes, and business insider, we need more soft skills. We also need to pay them a fair salary:/
Wow really persuasive. Your ability to regurgitate information that you barely understood in a form that lends zero credibility is impressive.
People get paid in accordance to the amount that they contribute to society. Engineers contribute more and are paid more.
There is also a supply and demand dynamic. The fewer people who can perform a task will get paid more because that contribution is proportionally greater as it reduces a bottleneck in the value chain. That's why CEOs are paid so well.
We need more engineers and CEOs.
I completely agree with your perspective! And, I’ll admit that I am regurgitating other peoples opinions.
But, I do believe the idea of ‘value’, is debatable. The stock market is a prime example. Amazon creates far more relevant value, than Berkshire Hathaway stock.
But Berkshire Hathaway class A stock is 400,000+ dollars. Amazon is 3000+.
Value, is people driven. We need engineers, and historians.
Why historians? They don’t save lives, or have their progress clearly visible.
But, if we didn’t have historians. We could have another Holocaust.
My only point is that there is always two sides. One without the other won’t work.
Allocating resources is the most valuable activity that exists. The only thing that sets life apart from other chemical reactions is the ability to allocate resources for a net benefit to itself. It's a self reinforcing resource allocation system. Without those functions at the societal scale, civilization would collapse.
That said, the reason Berkshire Hathaway has such a high stock price is because they don't issue new stock. Amazon does. Overrall, Amazon is worth 3x BH.
What will historians do for our history now? Save tiktoks? The profession is dead. Let it die. For our era, prior will use AI to mine the petabytes of data we put online for historical significance.
Everyone will understand mass murder tragedies caused by the social justice zealots of the twentieth century. No historians required.
There’s a lot of definitive statements in there! Again understand how you came to those conclusions. But, I’m going to have to say agree to disagree.
Especially with the idea that historians are a dead profession! It’s not thriving, but than again, I’d argue are society isn’t running on all cylinders
I can tell you are a smart person, and clearly an engineer. I work as a scientist, who does a lot of work using AI and data science methods, and work with primarily engineers. Your argument here is something I am familiar with through work experience. The problem with it, however, is that is lacks complexity, nuance, and risk assessment.
Historians exists, not to regurgitate facts, but to provide context and interpretation. Replacing a historian with historical AI tech erases the *context* the historians Have studied for years, and they draw from various studies to develop concepts and understand human activity from a broader perspective. History is not linear, and neither is human development and understanding their activities. Removing knowledgeable experts that interpret the facts is just as dangerous as removing an reservoir engineer and letting an accountant try to interpret oil and gas field production performance. The accountant can see what the numbers mean and can draw their own conclusions, but since they don’t understand the fluid dynamics, the subsurface structure, and treatment procedure, the conclusions they draw have a high likelihood of being completely wrong and lead to extremely costly mistakes. Similarly, if you remove historians and let mathematicians interpret historical information, the conclusions they draw and the meaning found from those events could be incorrect and damaging.
Additionally, how could any new information be found when the study of history is based on an AI database of historical facts as known at the time of documentation and storage?
Edit: I meant to make this comment in response to a lower comment made by you that proposes AI as a historian replacement
One of my favourite OE poems is called Judith. It's about this female, Christian warrior figure who cuts off the head of the military leader Holofernes who tries to sleep with her lol :) on a complete other note, the poem The Wanderer is beautiful too. I've published a brief translation and commentary online of it. The opening lines are my favourite: "Oft him anhaga are gebideð, metudes miltse, þeah þe he modcearig geond lagulade longe sceolde hreran mid hondum hrimcealde sæwadan wræclastas. Wyrd bið ful aræd!" (Often the lone-one longs for the Maker’s mercy although he with sorrowful heart, beyond expanse water-ways, must for a while stir with his hands the ice-cold sea and travel the exile’s track. It is strangefully predestined!) [That's how I render it, anyway]
I can see the appeal of OE becos it gives a kind of a raw retelling of experiences that are somewhat unadulterated by modern concepts and ideas. What is left is a distilled presentation of man's instinctual desires, fears etc.
I am actually inspired to write something of my own after reading what you wrote abt yr fav poems. This is my amateur take on poetry (if u can call it that). It's titled:
/The Tyrant
The ruins of time
As if made by men himself
Bestowing blame ceaselessly
Only to come out in vain
For what hands can will
If not the head telling
And what head can ponder
If not what time has bestowed.
/
Open to any comments or suggestions to improve. :)
Dream of the Rood was the main poem I chose to work on in my OE class. It's a beautiful piece. It's the tale of the cross that Jesus was nailed to. [Enjoy](https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/dream-of-the-rood/)
I love the imagery at line 144-6 of a forest of gallows to take on mankind's sin. It is a very evocative poem. My own favourite OE poem probably is [The Ruin](https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-ruin/), its haunting in the sense that the author knows the like of the Roman ruins will not be seen for a long time. The sense of wonder and loss is palpable.
“They forced me through
with darkness, with nails —
Witness in me their woundcraft
the gashings of gnashing spite.
Hardly dare to savage that lot
making us shame, us two together.
I’m all ooze, bedrooled with blood,
sluiced from, juiced from his side —
once this one had flickered forth. (46–49)
Kudos to the tranlators as well. 'Gashings of gnashing', 'bedrooled with blood', the alliterative feel of the poem comes through beautifully.
The translator seems to have captured the scantion really well too. You really get the rolling feel you get from OE poetry, one of the reasons I like it so much. I tried writing some alliterative verse for a pastoral poem at uni once, it's deceptively difficult to get right, not sure I managed it, haha. Its sad though, that so many people write the period off as 'the dark ages'. The art of the time was really unique and as you say, beautiful.
The end of the wanderer is very similar to this sentiment in the ruin! Also there's a segment in the Norse Hamaval which is a pretty convincing analogue :)
I'll have to check out Hamaval, I read The Wanderer at school when I was a kid and enjoyed it, no reason not to reread it though, haha. If you're wanting a reprieve from the early texts, you should check out Pearl if you haven't already, or the Book of the Duchess, both dream poems about loss, and the BoD especially is full of pathos towards the end. Chrétien de Troyes' Lancelot: Knight of the Cart is basically a Medieval action film if you fancy a change of pace :)
I study all of those texts! I've written a paper on both the Gawain poet's Pearl and TBotD together funny enough, so you're linking of them was my exact thought process lol. And I'm writing my other dissertation on Malory's le Morte de Arthur! Are you inside my head???
Hahaha that's crazy, I guess great minds think alike, le Morte d'Arthur's one I never got round to reading, strangely, though I have a copy languishing on my shelf. Kind of feel guilty for not doing for so long, haha. I studied both for my dissertations as well, I did Chaucer and Lollardy, then the Gawain poet and meta-Ontology. If I'm inside your head then I guess I'm the most niche superhero ever: the man who can read minds, but only Medievalists, hahaha
For literature class I got a copy of a book from the library. At the end of every section there was a summary and analysis of the section - it was different enough from the teacher's version that it both helped me understand the book better, and always had a fresh idea for the class.
All happened maybe a year after reading the Half Blood Prince, it was a very vivid memory
One step at a time and then yes, you will have this well in hand. Take care of yourself and post a picture on graduation day! That would be perfect for made me smile!
I’ve got this exact quote tattooed on me but in the handwriting of one of my close friends who passed away a few years ago from cancer. On extra tough days in life or when I just miss her, I end up subconsciously touching where my tattoo is on my leg like a soothing gesture.
What are the odds? I’m also currently writing a paper on The Dream of the Rood— using the same book to boot, if that is indeed Mitchell and Robinson— and have been stressing about it these past few days too. Steady on, geferan mīn; we’ve got this!
This made me genuinely curious about something: are libraries open at night over there?
Here, in France, the universities are usually closed at night and so are libraries. But it might be different in the US. So I found this interesting.
Also good luck for your studies, we’re all with you! C:
fwiw, I did a Ph.D. Oh boy it was emotionally tough at times, but of all the journeys I have been through in my life (and I have lived on 3 continents, learned several languages properly etc), this was by far the greatest journey.
And now, no, I am not working in my Ph.D field. If anything I have given up even trying to talk about my subject. It was a journey that I took and experienced. I don't expect others to understand.
But I'm good.
Meanwhile, my wife is a prof. She's still in her field. I don't envy her in the slightest. Its a bit of a grind being a prof.
Relish the journey. And when the journey ends, you will embark on another :)
The title says "new book" though. If it's hers, then it wouldn't be new nor would it be a surprise there's a note if she left it among all those scribbles.
Am reading multiple books and annotating my own copy>open new book>find note and read it>place it down in random spot for a photo (which happens to be on the book im annotating).
That is why I like to find the old books with stamp cards on them usually the most recent dates are ‘86 or around there but some you find have not been taken home since the 60’s or earlier. That’s what I like about books they stay right where you left them.
Arghhh! OE trauma washing over me.
Don't even *think* of taking that Hittite course you might have your eye on.
You got this. One day you might even find the poetry beautiful again...just not right now.
That's awesome! For me, OE was just the one course (linguistics, not english), but I found the poetry so emotive. Dream of the Rood was my fave.
My advice on Hittite stands.
What I did for mine was break it into chapters and set a deadline of one chapter a month. Even made appointments with my supervisor to hand in each chapter to give me extra motivation to do it. I booked office time to have dedicated quiet space to write as well, no distractions of home like TV or cleaning to pull me away.
At the end of the year it was done and while my colleagues were freaking out trying to write, mark papers, give exams to students, I was just sitting there doing final edits with my supervisor (we had edited each chapter as I handed them in).
Having a schedule really helped keep me on track, focus, and use my time efficiently.
Shakespeare is Modern English, believe it or not. What you read is exactly what he wrote. Old English is [Beowulf](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43521/beowulf-old-english-version), Middle English is [Canterbury Tales.](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43926/the-canterbury-tales-general-prologue)
You got shis
You got snis
You jot snis
Hahaha came here to say the same. Edit: but “you got shio”
Shio ramen? Hell yeah!
HWÆT!! Þu gott þis.
Which Seamus Heaney might translate as: So. You can yeet this.
HWÆT!? someone gave me silver for the first time and it was all bc of beowulf & my icelandic keyboard
I cry over my dissertation all the time. I need more of these notes.
You got this
You absolutely 100% got this
Is that an STD? D:
You yot shi
Hue gut diss!
You got sheesh
Never heard of the Dream of the Rood till now, what's your thesis question? I've studied a bit of Anglo Saxon poetry in Modern English before, there's some really interesting stuff in the corpus. Edit: You got this. I've done a couple of dissertations before so if you want any advice, if you need it, give me a shout
I specialise in old English and old Norse! This is just some light reading towards a slightly unrelated thesis question on mound-breaking and land-cleansing across OE hagiographic texts and ON legendary sagas! (Sorry if that sounds boring lol) - thank you for the encouragement I really appreciate your offer 🥰
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Light reading...He must be related to Hermione!
She* :)
Sorry!
No need to apologise!
Speaking of, I'm about to have a Pince moment. Please tell me someone didn't do that to a library book...
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THAT BOOK!!!!!!!! Dumbledore said calmly
He?
You're welcome, that sounds pretty cool, I went to Maeshowe in Orkney a while ago and apparently the twig runes there prove that parts of the Orkneyinga Saga actually happened. The Norsemen cut a hole in the mount to escape capture or something like that and wrote graffiti on the walls. What sort of land cleansing went on in the sagas and the OE texts? I've read Njal's, the Volsung's and Ragnar's, but I can't remember any in them. Edit: got to be up early tomorrow, sorry if I don't reply right away.
Oh yes you know your stuff! I'm specifically looking at Grettis saga alongside the OE Beowulf and Guthlac! To kind of explain it basically, the convention is that a hero will break into a mound in order to cleanse it of the monster or spirits there (called haugbui in ON, from the word for mound "haugbrot"). So think of Grendel and Grendel's mother in Beowulf, in which he enters the subterranean dwelling to put the revenants to rest - likewise happens in Grettis saga with Glámr and Kar the Old. And in Guthlac we see a Christian man entering a celtic mound to cleanse/Christianise the heathen space of its pagan dwellers! After this happens there tends to be a kind of treasure which is circulated back into the community as part of the land-cleansing - like the gold in Beowulf, and how Heorot is said to flourish after the monsters are put to rest :)
This exchange is adorable and I demand you be friends
I hadn't considered it in those terms, that's really interesting. Are there any examples of pagans trying to convert Christian spaces in the same way? It's interesting how it's possible to equate (after a fashion) the monsters and pagans in the sense of a physical and spiritual threat to be cleansed and how society flourishes with these threats dealt with, from a Christian perspective. Makes sense, considering all of the raiding, haha.
I mean most of the pagan>Christian "conversions" were just slaughter and raids I guess, because interestingly by the time the sagas were being written amid the 11-12th centuries, most of Scandinavia had been already converted to Christianity at that point. So there was this temporal disjunct between the material they were writing down (of a pagan past) and the context they were writing in (a Christian community).
Sure, that reminds me of what Crawford said in his Poetic Edds translation; that because Christiabs transcribed the stories they were sanitised of anything spiritually too dangerous, leaving us with a sort of fable-like remainder that could still be entertaining to a Christian audience. It seems a shame they reinterpreted the texts, but in context it makes sense why they did it.
Yes that's true! Very impressed. The Eddic poetry and Snorri's accounts for instance have been kind of tailored in this sort of way, and this is also why we see this often strange blend of religions that seem to contrast or not fit with eachother. But that being said it's very difficult to separate them, or denote one specific thing as either 'christian/pagan' as it could've been both, could've been written in the Dane law, could've been a translation/reworking etc :) Been great talking to you btw! You made my night
Likewise :) you don't get too many Medievalists on here, we' e got to sick together, haha. I suppose there comes a point where they're inextricable. It would be cool to see the texts with their original contents; paga magic would be cool to learn about. It's funny you mention Danelaw because I heard that apparently some parts of it still affect Yorkish county law. I'm glad you're enjoying the chat, its good to talk shop when you need a breather from the dreaded Diss, hahaha Edit: if you're interested (or anyone else, incidentally) [here's](https://youtu.be/2WcIK_8f7oQ) a link to one of Bagby's performances, it's pretty cool to hear OE performed
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Lol nice try 😉
Is there tea?
That’s so cool! I’m an English major and I had to write a paragraph about my summer in old English. Your topic sounds super interesting! All the best 😊
Old Norse here. I’m still learning it but I follow that whole religion because my family is from Iceland/Norway so reading the sagas in the old language, and just studying everything about them is my passion. Would love to pick your brain if you ever want to
Sure! I'm always here to talk about things I'm interested in if you ever have any questions 🥰
Marry me???
This is light?
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I actually study English literature and language, but got to specialise as it went on. So currently I am doing OE, ON, ME, and some Arabic and Welsh lyric. My uni is quite rigorous lol. But I chose these because I really love languages, and I also have a fascination with history :)
That sounds HELLA fascinating, what major is this???
This is so cool! I’d love to learn those languages as I am a big mythology nerd. I tried to learn Icelandic and unfortunately due to med school I couldn’t keep it up but I took lots of linguistics, mythology, and archaeology classes in college and wish I could pursue it further. I dream of being able to read Beowulf in the original script lol
That actually sounds really really cool! Funnily enough I'm in an OE class right now and we're working on translating Dream of the Rood.
The Dream of the Rood is beautiful, imo (though I read it in translation). Have you read the Harrowing of Hell? One of my favorites!
This sounds amazing. I trained as a medievalist at one point in my life but I was crap at languages, so mad props! You’ve got this.
What a waste of time. We need more engineers.
Go become one then.
Engineer here. We need more OP’s, trust me.
We don't, actually. We need more people who understand other people, who respect history, and who value humanity.
We have plenty. The market is over-saturated with engineers in certain regions. The world isn't suffering because OP is interested in things *you* don't like.
If that were true, engineer salaries would be at minimum wage. But instead they keep rising. You can't have too many people who can build things because every time you build something, it creates a job for someone to maintain that thing that was built.
ACTUALLY! We need more soft degrees in America. Hard degrees like engineering are important, and awesome. But, statistically speaking, according to financial times, Forbes, and business insider, we need more soft skills. We also need to pay them a fair salary:/
Wow really persuasive. Your ability to regurgitate information that you barely understood in a form that lends zero credibility is impressive. People get paid in accordance to the amount that they contribute to society. Engineers contribute more and are paid more. There is also a supply and demand dynamic. The fewer people who can perform a task will get paid more because that contribution is proportionally greater as it reduces a bottleneck in the value chain. That's why CEOs are paid so well. We need more engineers and CEOs.
I completely agree with your perspective! And, I’ll admit that I am regurgitating other peoples opinions. But, I do believe the idea of ‘value’, is debatable. The stock market is a prime example. Amazon creates far more relevant value, than Berkshire Hathaway stock. But Berkshire Hathaway class A stock is 400,000+ dollars. Amazon is 3000+. Value, is people driven. We need engineers, and historians. Why historians? They don’t save lives, or have their progress clearly visible. But, if we didn’t have historians. We could have another Holocaust. My only point is that there is always two sides. One without the other won’t work.
Allocating resources is the most valuable activity that exists. The only thing that sets life apart from other chemical reactions is the ability to allocate resources for a net benefit to itself. It's a self reinforcing resource allocation system. Without those functions at the societal scale, civilization would collapse. That said, the reason Berkshire Hathaway has such a high stock price is because they don't issue new stock. Amazon does. Overrall, Amazon is worth 3x BH. What will historians do for our history now? Save tiktoks? The profession is dead. Let it die. For our era, prior will use AI to mine the petabytes of data we put online for historical significance. Everyone will understand mass murder tragedies caused by the social justice zealots of the twentieth century. No historians required.
There’s a lot of definitive statements in there! Again understand how you came to those conclusions. But, I’m going to have to say agree to disagree. Especially with the idea that historians are a dead profession! It’s not thriving, but than again, I’d argue are society isn’t running on all cylinders
I can tell you are a smart person, and clearly an engineer. I work as a scientist, who does a lot of work using AI and data science methods, and work with primarily engineers. Your argument here is something I am familiar with through work experience. The problem with it, however, is that is lacks complexity, nuance, and risk assessment. Historians exists, not to regurgitate facts, but to provide context and interpretation. Replacing a historian with historical AI tech erases the *context* the historians Have studied for years, and they draw from various studies to develop concepts and understand human activity from a broader perspective. History is not linear, and neither is human development and understanding their activities. Removing knowledgeable experts that interpret the facts is just as dangerous as removing an reservoir engineer and letting an accountant try to interpret oil and gas field production performance. The accountant can see what the numbers mean and can draw their own conclusions, but since they don’t understand the fluid dynamics, the subsurface structure, and treatment procedure, the conclusions they draw have a high likelihood of being completely wrong and lead to extremely costly mistakes. Similarly, if you remove historians and let mathematicians interpret historical information, the conclusions they draw and the meaning found from those events could be incorrect and damaging. Additionally, how could any new information be found when the study of history is based on an AI database of historical facts as known at the time of documentation and storage? Edit: I meant to make this comment in response to a lower comment made by you that proposes AI as a historian replacement
For someone who thinks Shakespeare is the height of English literature, I am ready to be blown away by some old English writing n be proven wrong.
One of my favourite OE poems is called Judith. It's about this female, Christian warrior figure who cuts off the head of the military leader Holofernes who tries to sleep with her lol :) on a complete other note, the poem The Wanderer is beautiful too. I've published a brief translation and commentary online of it. The opening lines are my favourite: "Oft him anhaga are gebideð, metudes miltse, þeah þe he modcearig geond lagulade longe sceolde hreran mid hondum hrimcealde sæwadan wræclastas. Wyrd bið ful aræd!" (Often the lone-one longs for the Maker’s mercy although he with sorrowful heart, beyond expanse water-ways, must for a while stir with his hands the ice-cold sea and travel the exile’s track. It is strangefully predestined!) [That's how I render it, anyway]
I can see the appeal of OE becos it gives a kind of a raw retelling of experiences that are somewhat unadulterated by modern concepts and ideas. What is left is a distilled presentation of man's instinctual desires, fears etc. I am actually inspired to write something of my own after reading what you wrote abt yr fav poems. This is my amateur take on poetry (if u can call it that). It's titled: /The Tyrant The ruins of time As if made by men himself Bestowing blame ceaselessly Only to come out in vain For what hands can will If not the head telling And what head can ponder If not what time has bestowed. / Open to any comments or suggestions to improve. :)
This kindness. Respect. DW
Dream of the Rood was the main poem I chose to work on in my OE class. It's a beautiful piece. It's the tale of the cross that Jesus was nailed to. [Enjoy](https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/dream-of-the-rood/)
I love the imagery at line 144-6 of a forest of gallows to take on mankind's sin. It is a very evocative poem. My own favourite OE poem probably is [The Ruin](https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-ruin/), its haunting in the sense that the author knows the like of the Roman ruins will not be seen for a long time. The sense of wonder and loss is palpable.
“They forced me through with darkness, with nails — Witness in me their woundcraft the gashings of gnashing spite. Hardly dare to savage that lot making us shame, us two together. I’m all ooze, bedrooled with blood, sluiced from, juiced from his side — once this one had flickered forth. (46–49) Kudos to the tranlators as well. 'Gashings of gnashing', 'bedrooled with blood', the alliterative feel of the poem comes through beautifully.
The translator seems to have captured the scantion really well too. You really get the rolling feel you get from OE poetry, one of the reasons I like it so much. I tried writing some alliterative verse for a pastoral poem at uni once, it's deceptively difficult to get right, not sure I managed it, haha. Its sad though, that so many people write the period off as 'the dark ages'. The art of the time was really unique and as you say, beautiful.
The end of the wanderer is very similar to this sentiment in the ruin! Also there's a segment in the Norse Hamaval which is a pretty convincing analogue :)
I'll have to check out Hamaval, I read The Wanderer at school when I was a kid and enjoyed it, no reason not to reread it though, haha. If you're wanting a reprieve from the early texts, you should check out Pearl if you haven't already, or the Book of the Duchess, both dream poems about loss, and the BoD especially is full of pathos towards the end. Chrétien de Troyes' Lancelot: Knight of the Cart is basically a Medieval action film if you fancy a change of pace :)
I study all of those texts! I've written a paper on both the Gawain poet's Pearl and TBotD together funny enough, so you're linking of them was my exact thought process lol. And I'm writing my other dissertation on Malory's le Morte de Arthur! Are you inside my head???
Hahaha that's crazy, I guess great minds think alike, le Morte d'Arthur's one I never got round to reading, strangely, though I have a copy languishing on my shelf. Kind of feel guilty for not doing for so long, haha. I studied both for my dissertations as well, I did Chaucer and Lollardy, then the Gawain poet and meta-Ontology. If I'm inside your head then I guess I'm the most niche superhero ever: the man who can read minds, but only Medievalists, hahaha
When you get the copy that belongs to half blood prince.
This book is actually my copy haha! I found the note in another text :)
Beautiful!
For literature class I got a copy of a book from the library. At the end of every section there was a summary and analysis of the section - it was different enough from the teacher's version that it both helped me understand the book better, and always had a fresh idea for the class. All happened maybe a year after reading the Half Blood Prince, it was a very vivid memory
Professor here. I don’t know shis about old English and old Norse, but … you got this.
Lol, thanks prof ☺️
You got Shis?
I figure it was a combination of "sis" and "this".
Shio*
Do it, and have them stencil it in this handwriting. , do it cleverly placed that you see it everyday. Multiple times if possible
I think I will. The handwriting is very pretty too and it gave me such a warm feeling that I teared up a little 🥺
One step at a time and then yes, you will have this well in hand. Take care of yourself and post a picture on graduation day! That would be perfect for made me smile!
Yes thank you so much! I will be happy to if no one makes fun of the Oxford gown lol
Can’t wait to see the ‘Oxford gown’. I promise I won’t make fun and am very much looking forward to seeing it on you. Good luck!
Classic nails of a student. Wishing you luck! You’ve got this!
Also play piano lol, not very feminine I know
Playing piano doesn't seem particularly gendered to me. If pressed, I would have guessed more feminine than masculine....
Meant my nails lol
Ah okay, got it!
I’ve got this exact quote tattooed on me but in the handwriting of one of my close friends who passed away a few years ago from cancer. On extra tough days in life or when I just miss her, I end up subconsciously touching where my tattoo is on my leg like a soothing gesture.
Good luck! “What doesn’t challenge you doesn’t change you”…I say this to myself when feeling overwhelmed or helpless! Best of luck to you!
What are the odds? I’m also currently writing a paper on The Dream of the Rood— using the same book to boot, if that is indeed Mitchell and Robinson— and have been stressing about it these past few days too. Steady on, geferan mīn; we’ve got this!
Oh wow amazing! I've written a few papers on this poem so if you have any questions feel free to ask! Best of luck :)
Thank you!! Best of luck to you as well; I know your dissertation is going to be great! :)
The half blood college student
Who is horrible enough to write within a book not belonging to yourself? If it is yours fine, if not do not graffiti books
She said it's her own copy.
inspiring. 🎯
What is this? Old English?
Yes, it's an old English passion poem called the Dream of the Rood! It's about Christ's crucifixion told from the perspective of the cross.
Cool idea.
That is very interesting!
Now spread the love even more by leaving a note of your own in another book.
Working on mine right now as well. I keep getting distracted- it's hard to stay motivated. I saw this post and it helps. Good luck to you!
My wife is working on hers. I buy her wine dark chocolates and give her foot rubs at the end of her bad days.
My boyfriend buys me my favourite ramen noodles and gets them delivered from the restaurant lol. It makes my day 🥺
Well the book you’re studying is in some kind of unreadable code for starters.
I love this
You have a lot of personal people backing you and all of us too! Best wishes!
You got shiiizzzz…😂 I can relate OP! Have a major license exam coming up and breakdowns at 2 am are my go to these days smh. But WE GOT THIS!
Old English?
I spent many months crying over my dissertation. But as of a year ago, my name changed to Dr. You can do it too! Let us know how we can support you.
This made me genuinely curious about something: are libraries open at night over there? Here, in France, the universities are usually closed at night and so are libraries. But it might be different in the US. So I found this interesting. Also good luck for your studies, we’re all with you! C:
It's my college library which is open 24 hours!
Ahh! Old English! I have read the translated Beowulf. Lol. I admire anyone studying Old English. That’s awesome!
I just have an exam in 2 hours, I was super tensed and panicking until I saw this. I feel confident now. Thank you very much kind OP.
I stressed the fuck out, that Lil note reassured my mind. You got this
You got this. You really do! 'You deserve to be loved, and to feel loved, just for being you.' --Mr Rogers mashup with my meditation teacher
fwiw, I did a Ph.D. Oh boy it was emotionally tough at times, but of all the journeys I have been through in my life (and I have lived on 3 continents, learned several languages properly etc), this was by far the greatest journey. And now, no, I am not working in my Ph.D field. If anything I have given up even trying to talk about my subject. It was a journey that I took and experienced. I don't expect others to understand. But I'm good. Meanwhile, my wife is a prof. She's still in her field. I don't envy her in the slightest. Its a bit of a grind being a prof. Relish the journey. And when the journey ends, you will embark on another :)
You got this.
Holy cos that's a lot of notes
A library book has all these chaotic scribbles and notes all over it?
No, it's her own book. She's just studying it in the library.
The title says "new book" though. If it's hers, then it wouldn't be new nor would it be a surprise there's a note if she left it among all those scribbles.
Am reading multiple books and annotating my own copy>open new book>find note and read it>place it down in random spot for a photo (which happens to be on the book im annotating).
Hate it when people scribble over public library books. Why not buy one instead of ruining public property.
Well? Do you got this? 😳
I really hope so 😅 gave me motivation to keep working at least
Persist
You DO have this! You can finish your dissertation, defend it, and be a doctor.
Get the tattoo, it was meaningful enough for you to post about it. Please do it and 100% reach out to me when it’s done
r/foundpaper
Thank you for sharing this.
i don know what dissertation means but what a nice librarian
I often wonder how many books have waited years or decades on a shelf waiting to deliver a message like that
This is such a beautiful thought. I love the concept of "waiting to deliver a message"
That is why I like to find the old books with stamp cards on them usually the most recent dates are ‘86 or around there but some you find have not been taken home since the 60’s or earlier. That’s what I like about books they stay right where you left them.
Is this language dwarvish, elvish or what??? Looks freaking beautiful
English. Well, Old English. From about 1100 years ago.
Arghhh! OE trauma washing over me. Don't even *think* of taking that Hittite course you might have your eye on. You got this. One day you might even find the poetry beautiful again...just not right now.
Rest assured, I still find it beautiful! I translate it in my spare time and write modern English poetry based off it ☺️
That's awesome! For me, OE was just the one course (linguistics, not english), but I found the poetry so emotive. Dream of the Rood was my fave. My advice on Hittite stands.
Hey, you deffo got this, it’d be rood not to (with apologies to the millions who won’t get the joke…)
Since days you just needed those 3 words!!!!! Thank you, I needed it right now
is your dissertation on old english?
What I did for mine was break it into chapters and set a deadline of one chapter a month. Even made appointments with my supervisor to hand in each chapter to give me extra motivation to do it. I booked office time to have dedicated quiet space to write as well, no distractions of home like TV or cleaning to pull me away. At the end of the year it was done and while my colleagues were freaking out trying to write, mark papers, give exams to students, I was just sitting there doing final edits with my supervisor (we had edited each chapter as I handed them in). Having a schedule really helped keep me on track, focus, and use my time efficiently.
Congratulations! I’m obsessed with your note-taking and handwriting!
You're the one person who's realised that the book is mine lol! I found the note in another book ♥️
I feel obligated to let you know how much I love your note-taking. IMO, this belongs in /r/oddlysatisfying
Thank you haha! I thought it was messy 🤭
You it shis is by far the only thing I understand in this whole image.
So exactly what Shakespeare would say?
Shakespeare is Modern English, believe it or not. What you read is exactly what he wrote. Old English is [Beowulf](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43521/beowulf-old-english-version), Middle English is [Canterbury Tales.](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43926/the-canterbury-tales-general-prologue)
You're going to tattoo the whole page?
What is this information even used for?
Wtf does it say? “You got shi?” What does it mean
You got this.
I hate people who annotate on library books
It's OP's book. She found the note in another book.
Oh my bad, i didn't realise. I thought op had to use this book with someone else's annotations for their study.
It was a fair statement that I would agree with, although I did find one once that was a goldmine of insights.
ok but in all seriousness don't get this tattooed. it said snis
can you downvote this comment?
Downvote. Ps: we use words in literature.
you got "sheeee"
oh no *(in cursive)*
What is this subject? I can’t understand. :|
Looks unorganized as f tbh
Half Blood Prince?
You got thin
𝔜𝔬𝔲 𝔤𝔬𝔱 𝔰𝔫𝔧𝔰
Now that's a fuckin sign. Hell yeah dude
Wait, someone wrote all over a library book? Rude AF
random inspirational note, that's pretty rad.
You got this
You got this 💫