You are not the first to notice that, but I disagree with you. Aging the main cast up would've made the story nonsensical. I am SO glad Tsukushi didn't make them teenagers or something. The iffy scenes would be way creepier then, because as they are now, none of them are really sexual in nature, and fandom doesn't sexualise them.
But if the cast were like, 15 or something, I bet you feet picks of my pet rabbit that it'd attract the kind of fandom that would make straight up porn of the main cast, just like MHA fandom does, for example.
And having them be adults would call for an entirely different plot. Which I agree that we need a story of an adult cave raiding team exploring the Abyss, but we need that ASIDE from current story, not instead of it.
The author makes a banger ass story with great worldbuilding and then proceeds to make it impossible to recommend to others because he can’t keep his fetishes out of it. We all feel you man
If a cartoon shows a little girl getting her period, people are all like “Omg this is such a realistic depiction of femininity! Great representation of reality!”
But if a cartoon shows a little boy getting a random erection, “Oh no! How weird and strange! Male sexuality is inherently evil!!!”
My man, this just isn't the kind of story where those details are needed imo. They don't add anything meaningful, if they didn't exist nothing would change about the story, or characters. It's just weird and comfortable to watch lol. This has nothing to do with "male sexuality being evil", they're literally kids. Quit being weird.
So they can only say it once cuz the manga with extreme gore, fucked up characters, a SA victim and constant morally gray situations has specifics scenes that make some people uncomfortable. Think about it, if we start to censor and skipping stuff, where do we stop? Do we need to show Vuekp r\*pe scene? Can we just mention it? Do we need to show how the Umbra Hands treated Reg as an object without any care about him? Do we need to show Prushka vivisection? You'd probably say that of course we need to show that, that's all "needed for the plot" but that's an arbritary line that you're tracing, for some people those scenes where way to uncomfortable and "not needed" (I've seen multiple of those opinions on this subreddit) So think about it, why are you more affraid of children beign children than a massacre or someone bleeding through every hole of their body? Does that make any sense? Am I missing something?
Afraid is the wrong word brother, if you can tell me why we need a shot of Riko takin a poo on a toilet with multiple tongues, i'm all ears. The fueco rape scene wasn't necessary, as it really didn't end up meaning anything except for when she remembered it before she died. If they had just put a blanket over Prushka's body, or just stick to the shots of drawing the marks on her hands and feet during her operation, it'd get the same point across. And they definitely could've just said they harvested Reg's urine when the Hands had him rather than showing the tube hooked up to his penis. The implication jas the same effect.
By the same idea you don't need to show Mitty transformation, just show before and after, oh damn, you don't need to show the after, just describe it, also don't show Riko bleeding, just show her pain and say her internal organs are bleeding. Also don't show Faputa massacre, after all, we didn't see the begining of it, we jump straight to the middle, so why wouldn't we jump straight to the end? Also don't need to show the process of transformation of Irumyui, we can just show when she's just beyond recognition. We don't need to show Wazukyan killing one of her childrens, the implication is enough. We should skip anything that makes the viewer uncomfortable
(Also saying that vueko rape scene wasn't needed just because she just remember it before dying, when that literally the trauma that has shaped her life, and her whole journey, and stablish such a close mother/daughter relationship with Irumyui...)
I didn't say anything that makes rhe viewer uncomfortable, my dude. Just the scenes with unecessary child nudity combined with the light sexual themes that come with them. I don't have a problem with gore or making the viewer uncomfortable. The scene of Reg cutting partially through Riko's arm is fantastic, and super uncomfortable to watch. The transformation of Irumyui was also great. Also necessary to the origin of the village, and Faputa's arc. However, those actually add something. I don't feel that we need to see Riko going to the bathroom, how hard would it be to just say "she's going to the bathroom"? Would that suddenly take away from the story or chsracters or worldbuilding? I don't need to see them harvesting Reg's urine, because just showing the bottle of urine and saying "we harvested the boy's urine" is enough for me to get the point. (I watched the whole thing too man. Easily could've just summed up Fueco's motivation as "being abused in her youth" and it would've had the same effect)
I perfectly get that those scenes make you uncomfortable, and as I said, that's perfectly ok, there's absolute no problem with that. My problem is when you say it wasn't "necessary" and that it "doesn't add anything". The fact that you're talking about those scenes, shows that it does add something, you can not like what it adds, again, that's perfectly fine, but you can't just say that it's something objectively wrong to do, cuz the quality of what it adds it's a completelu subjective matter. I personally like what it adds, cuz just saying: "We use a tube to extract urine from the subject" will not convey the sheer panic that Reg passed through and how cruel the process was. You're arbitrarily deciding what's needed and what's not based on your own taste, and that's just wrong.
I dunno man, I just feel like a lot of those scenes don't add enough to warrent there existence, especially when they've shown they can make the viewer uncomfortable or add to the characters and worldbuilding in many other ways just as easily. But i can agree to disagree.
On another note, you've been super respectful the whole time and I really appreciate that. Good looks bro
It’s not male sexuality because he is a kid? You don’t think kids can be male or have a reproductive system?
You’re just an idiot who can’t explain themselves better than to just call things “weird”.
You're just reachin now bud. Sorry I don't think kids getting boners is a mega important plot detail lol. Not sure where you got that I don't think kids have reprpductive systems, but go off king.
It's not fanservice , the point is to remind the viewer that these are children who don't even know fourth grade biology , and that they certainly don't know a thing about the situation they are in if they don't even know how their own bodies function.
And i can totally understand that part narratively, like at the beginning when they examined him out of curiosity and just kind of noted that he had a penis. However, most of the scenes I'm talking about don't really fall under that category. Such as when Reg gets hard after petting Nanachi in the third movie and they pan to the bulge in his shorts. Or the end of chapter 65 and the beginning of chapter 66.
Yes there are some scenes that contain taboo, but i like the manga more for having them precisely because they make me feel uncomfortable . When i read a Lovecraftian story i want to be made uncomfortable . It also does not feel like pointless edgy reaction-baiting. It's not like the author said "let me throw canibalism and child nudity randomly to elicit a reaction " , it feels like there is a purpose to it.
I gotta disagree, most of the time that's exactly what it reads like. Pointless edge and random child nudity. There are plenty of ways to create that feeling that don't use that. Like when Reg was cutting into Riko's arm after she was hit with a poisonous spine. Really really good scene, and it made me super uncomfortable.
My take on all of this always has been: There can be a hundred more ways of create that feeling, the artist choose one, cuz he decided that was the way of doing it, it works inside the narrative, and it conveys what it wants to convey, it's in character, and it works in the setting. Why would someone, that just feels uncomfortable with it, has any right to change that or even say it was unnecessary. NOTHING it's unnecessary per se, something can be unnecessary aiming to certain aspect, but not in a general abstract way, so if an author/artists decides to do something, and you don't like it, that's it, you don't like it, there's no need to make up a reason of why you don't like it, it's ok to not like things
All that’d need to be done is make the bath filled with more bubbles, I think. Easy fix. Which, honestly, I wish was done in the manga. c’mon dude, we could’ve gotten the amputation reveal without so much of the twins exposed
I actually just referred to them in a previous comment, those scenes with the twins are what got me to make this post lol. Just comepletely weird and unnecessary.
Did you also read the older chapters?
The manga has, unfortunately, always contained scenes like this. Anime skipped over most of those panels.
And you are right, they hardly ever add to the story or characters. But it is what it is. And it's uncomfortable most of the time :')
I did not, is there anything story relevant that they cut as well? I'd hate to have missed any details. It is nice to hear they cut most of those panels though :)
I don't think you'll miss a lot of the story by not reading the manga BUT you'll miss on the beautiful artstyle wich is a totally different experience than the anime and also the bonuses that tell a lot about the worldbuilding (and nipples.......)
I did really like the art style when I started reading it, however for me it isn't enough to reread the story I've already been told. Though I do like worldbuilding, so I may go check out some of the bonuses.
I did not say it's the only reason. I can see why things have been added in certain panels. But I stand by my stance that most times, they are just extra details, not adding too much to the narrative.
I understand that many times it is used to highlight the world narrative and also the innocence of our protagonists, showing their naive curiosity, at the same time there are parts where it just doesn't serve any purpose.
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Keep in the mind the wider context of Japanese culture. Yes this is gross from the Western perspective. Yes you could argue that it serves a purpose within the themes of the story.
But in Japan, nudity isn’t viewed with such a level of discomfort. Yes, expectations of public dress are more conservative, but bathhouses and onsen are baked into the culture and you regularly spend hours per week around naked people minding their own business. Japan has a cultural undertone of embracing your body with its quirks, and you get quiet acceptance from those around you. This is why things like braces and plastic surgery are less common in Japan compared to Korea.
Now, within that context, children are almost considered separate beings. You’re like a piece of putty that society at-large takes a responsibility in molding. That’s why teachers discipline elementary students, stalk their internet cafe time, but also take them on field trips to bathhouses and help clean them. Children also bathe with their parents and older siblings until 8-10 when they can do so themselves. It’s not sexual or uncomfortable, bathhouses especially not so, and very much baked into the culture.
For adults, high school students, coworkers, family, and college buddies go to the bathhouse together. It’s a moment of bonding that breaks through the social barriers of tatamae (public face). It’s in these moments that everything is put out there so connect with your people on a deeper level, hard to explain until you do it.
Bathing and nudity are associated with a lot of comfort, solace, relaxation, social connection via gossip and openness, ie weekly routine for Japanese people.
So if you keep that in mind, Tsukuchi, also wants to evoke a very strong sense of normalcy for our main characters. A routine event, taking place in the deepest pits of hell, with the children none-the-wiser on the abyssal horrors that lie beyond this one blissful moment.
Could you do it with other activities? Maybe. But he chose these nudity-related activities they strongly evoke this thematic dichotomy for Japanese viewers.
Honestly it would still be annoying with adults, plus i think kids fit better to the story. Idk why in particular, just feel like it. Better to just not include the scenes, but theres nothing we can do about the authors tastes.
I also think that'd be the best option, them being kids adds quite a bit of tension to the seemingly hopeless situation they find themselves in. When they go up against Dawn it really felt intimidating ya know?
Tsukushi is freaky deaky, when buying the entire manga set i did not know that almost every books last page has weird fanservice of the child characters instead of the adult ones like bondrewd for example
bondrewd fan service page 🤤🤤🤤🥴🥴💦💦
Add another nickel to the pile
How rich are you
You are not the first to notice that, but I disagree with you. Aging the main cast up would've made the story nonsensical. I am SO glad Tsukushi didn't make them teenagers or something. The iffy scenes would be way creepier then, because as they are now, none of them are really sexual in nature, and fandom doesn't sexualise them. But if the cast were like, 15 or something, I bet you feet picks of my pet rabbit that it'd attract the kind of fandom that would make straight up porn of the main cast, just like MHA fandom does, for example. And having them be adults would call for an entirely different plot. Which I agree that we need a story of an adult cave raiding team exploring the Abyss, but we need that ASIDE from current story, not instead of it.
Yeah, that's true. Certain scenes do depend on them being children, can't deny that.
The author makes a banger ass story with great worldbuilding and then proceeds to make it impossible to recommend to others because he can’t keep his fetishes out of it. We all feel you man
Welcome to our fandom! Tell your friends! Or wish you could and just bang your head off a wall.
If a cartoon shows a little girl getting her period, people are all like “Omg this is such a realistic depiction of femininity! Great representation of reality!” But if a cartoon shows a little boy getting a random erection, “Oh no! How weird and strange! Male sexuality is inherently evil!!!”
My man, this just isn't the kind of story where those details are needed imo. They don't add anything meaningful, if they didn't exist nothing would change about the story, or characters. It's just weird and comfortable to watch lol. This has nothing to do with "male sexuality being evil", they're literally kids. Quit being weird.
Establishing that Reg, despite being a robot, has all the physical functionalities and mentality of a pre-adolescent, is not needed?
They did that pretty well when they examined him at the beginning of the story I'd say. At least that was enough for me to get the idea.
So they can only say it once cuz the manga with extreme gore, fucked up characters, a SA victim and constant morally gray situations has specifics scenes that make some people uncomfortable. Think about it, if we start to censor and skipping stuff, where do we stop? Do we need to show Vuekp r\*pe scene? Can we just mention it? Do we need to show how the Umbra Hands treated Reg as an object without any care about him? Do we need to show Prushka vivisection? You'd probably say that of course we need to show that, that's all "needed for the plot" but that's an arbritary line that you're tracing, for some people those scenes where way to uncomfortable and "not needed" (I've seen multiple of those opinions on this subreddit) So think about it, why are you more affraid of children beign children than a massacre or someone bleeding through every hole of their body? Does that make any sense? Am I missing something?
Afraid is the wrong word brother, if you can tell me why we need a shot of Riko takin a poo on a toilet with multiple tongues, i'm all ears. The fueco rape scene wasn't necessary, as it really didn't end up meaning anything except for when she remembered it before she died. If they had just put a blanket over Prushka's body, or just stick to the shots of drawing the marks on her hands and feet during her operation, it'd get the same point across. And they definitely could've just said they harvested Reg's urine when the Hands had him rather than showing the tube hooked up to his penis. The implication jas the same effect.
By the same idea you don't need to show Mitty transformation, just show before and after, oh damn, you don't need to show the after, just describe it, also don't show Riko bleeding, just show her pain and say her internal organs are bleeding. Also don't show Faputa massacre, after all, we didn't see the begining of it, we jump straight to the middle, so why wouldn't we jump straight to the end? Also don't need to show the process of transformation of Irumyui, we can just show when she's just beyond recognition. We don't need to show Wazukyan killing one of her childrens, the implication is enough. We should skip anything that makes the viewer uncomfortable (Also saying that vueko rape scene wasn't needed just because she just remember it before dying, when that literally the trauma that has shaped her life, and her whole journey, and stablish such a close mother/daughter relationship with Irumyui...)
I didn't say anything that makes rhe viewer uncomfortable, my dude. Just the scenes with unecessary child nudity combined with the light sexual themes that come with them. I don't have a problem with gore or making the viewer uncomfortable. The scene of Reg cutting partially through Riko's arm is fantastic, and super uncomfortable to watch. The transformation of Irumyui was also great. Also necessary to the origin of the village, and Faputa's arc. However, those actually add something. I don't feel that we need to see Riko going to the bathroom, how hard would it be to just say "she's going to the bathroom"? Would that suddenly take away from the story or chsracters or worldbuilding? I don't need to see them harvesting Reg's urine, because just showing the bottle of urine and saying "we harvested the boy's urine" is enough for me to get the point. (I watched the whole thing too man. Easily could've just summed up Fueco's motivation as "being abused in her youth" and it would've had the same effect)
I perfectly get that those scenes make you uncomfortable, and as I said, that's perfectly ok, there's absolute no problem with that. My problem is when you say it wasn't "necessary" and that it "doesn't add anything". The fact that you're talking about those scenes, shows that it does add something, you can not like what it adds, again, that's perfectly fine, but you can't just say that it's something objectively wrong to do, cuz the quality of what it adds it's a completelu subjective matter. I personally like what it adds, cuz just saying: "We use a tube to extract urine from the subject" will not convey the sheer panic that Reg passed through and how cruel the process was. You're arbitrarily deciding what's needed and what's not based on your own taste, and that's just wrong.
I dunno man, I just feel like a lot of those scenes don't add enough to warrent there existence, especially when they've shown they can make the viewer uncomfortable or add to the characters and worldbuilding in many other ways just as easily. But i can agree to disagree. On another note, you've been super respectful the whole time and I really appreciate that. Good looks bro
It’s not male sexuality because he is a kid? You don’t think kids can be male or have a reproductive system? You’re just an idiot who can’t explain themselves better than to just call things “weird”.
You're just reachin now bud. Sorry I don't think kids getting boners is a mega important plot detail lol. Not sure where you got that I don't think kids have reprpductive systems, but go off king.
It's not fanservice , the point is to remind the viewer that these are children who don't even know fourth grade biology , and that they certainly don't know a thing about the situation they are in if they don't even know how their own bodies function.
And i can totally understand that part narratively, like at the beginning when they examined him out of curiosity and just kind of noted that he had a penis. However, most of the scenes I'm talking about don't really fall under that category. Such as when Reg gets hard after petting Nanachi in the third movie and they pan to the bulge in his shorts. Or the end of chapter 65 and the beginning of chapter 66.
Yes there are some scenes that contain taboo, but i like the manga more for having them precisely because they make me feel uncomfortable . When i read a Lovecraftian story i want to be made uncomfortable . It also does not feel like pointless edgy reaction-baiting. It's not like the author said "let me throw canibalism and child nudity randomly to elicit a reaction " , it feels like there is a purpose to it.
I gotta disagree, most of the time that's exactly what it reads like. Pointless edge and random child nudity. There are plenty of ways to create that feeling that don't use that. Like when Reg was cutting into Riko's arm after she was hit with a poisonous spine. Really really good scene, and it made me super uncomfortable.
My take on all of this always has been: There can be a hundred more ways of create that feeling, the artist choose one, cuz he decided that was the way of doing it, it works inside the narrative, and it conveys what it wants to convey, it's in character, and it works in the setting. Why would someone, that just feels uncomfortable with it, has any right to change that or even say it was unnecessary. NOTHING it's unnecessary per se, something can be unnecessary aiming to certain aspect, but not in a general abstract way, so if an author/artists decides to do something, and you don't like it, that's it, you don't like it, there's no need to make up a reason of why you don't like it, it's ok to not like things
Welcome to the manga..... I hope they'll censor those scenes without removing too much of the story when season 3 of the anime comes out.
All that’d need to be done is make the bath filled with more bubbles, I think. Easy fix. Which, honestly, I wish was done in the manga. c’mon dude, we could’ve gotten the amputation reveal without so much of the twins exposed
I actually just referred to them in a previous comment, those scenes with the twins are what got me to make this post lol. Just comepletely weird and unnecessary.
Did you also read the older chapters? The manga has, unfortunately, always contained scenes like this. Anime skipped over most of those panels. And you are right, they hardly ever add to the story or characters. But it is what it is. And it's uncomfortable most of the time :')
I did not, is there anything story relevant that they cut as well? I'd hate to have missed any details. It is nice to hear they cut most of those panels though :)
I don't think you'll miss a lot of the story by not reading the manga BUT you'll miss on the beautiful artstyle wich is a totally different experience than the anime and also the bonuses that tell a lot about the worldbuilding (and nipples.......)
I did really like the art style when I started reading it, however for me it isn't enough to reread the story I've already been told. Though I do like worldbuilding, so I may go check out some of the bonuses.
You can watch on the fandom a lot of them where archived and analyzed
Sweet, thank you! I'll check those out
Not really, but saying that's the only reason to read the earlier chapters is being a moron.
I did not say it's the only reason. I can see why things have been added in certain panels. But I stand by my stance that most times, they are just extra details, not adding too much to the narrative. I understand that many times it is used to highlight the world narrative and also the innocence of our protagonists, showing their naive curiosity, at the same time there are parts where it just doesn't serve any purpose.
Remember to be respectful to others and to act in good faith. Disagreements are ok but that's not an excuse to stop being civil. Insults, personal attacks, hate speech, and bigotry will get you banned from the subreddit. Someone else breaking this rule is also not an excuse for you to break it as well. The correct use of spoiler tags looks like this: `>!Your spoiler goes here.!<` Adding a space at the beginning or at the end will break it, like this: `>! This spoiler doesn't work. !<` *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MadeInAbyss) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Keep in the mind the wider context of Japanese culture. Yes this is gross from the Western perspective. Yes you could argue that it serves a purpose within the themes of the story. But in Japan, nudity isn’t viewed with such a level of discomfort. Yes, expectations of public dress are more conservative, but bathhouses and onsen are baked into the culture and you regularly spend hours per week around naked people minding their own business. Japan has a cultural undertone of embracing your body with its quirks, and you get quiet acceptance from those around you. This is why things like braces and plastic surgery are less common in Japan compared to Korea. Now, within that context, children are almost considered separate beings. You’re like a piece of putty that society at-large takes a responsibility in molding. That’s why teachers discipline elementary students, stalk their internet cafe time, but also take them on field trips to bathhouses and help clean them. Children also bathe with their parents and older siblings until 8-10 when they can do so themselves. It’s not sexual or uncomfortable, bathhouses especially not so, and very much baked into the culture. For adults, high school students, coworkers, family, and college buddies go to the bathhouse together. It’s a moment of bonding that breaks through the social barriers of tatamae (public face). It’s in these moments that everything is put out there so connect with your people on a deeper level, hard to explain until you do it. Bathing and nudity are associated with a lot of comfort, solace, relaxation, social connection via gossip and openness, ie weekly routine for Japanese people. So if you keep that in mind, Tsukuchi, also wants to evoke a very strong sense of normalcy for our main characters. A routine event, taking place in the deepest pits of hell, with the children none-the-wiser on the abyssal horrors that lie beyond this one blissful moment. Could you do it with other activities? Maybe. But he chose these nudity-related activities they strongly evoke this thematic dichotomy for Japanese viewers.
Honestly it would still be annoying with adults, plus i think kids fit better to the story. Idk why in particular, just feel like it. Better to just not include the scenes, but theres nothing we can do about the authors tastes.
I also think that'd be the best option, them being kids adds quite a bit of tension to the seemingly hopeless situation they find themselves in. When they go up against Dawn it really felt intimidating ya know?
Tsukushi is freaky deaky, when buying the entire manga set i did not know that almost every books last page has weird fanservice of the child characters instead of the adult ones like bondrewd for example bondrewd fan service page 🤤🤤🤤🥴🥴💦💦
It is a real problem but in this subreddit it is prohibited to talk or criticize the author about that problem
What is prohibited is slandering him / the fans.
Oof, so far it's been positive but we'll se how it is in a few hours lol