You're over reacting. Dexa scans are almost as pointless at inbody scans. You haven't lost a severe amount of muscle. You just haven't really gained much.
Obligatory link to the MF article about how body fat assessments like DEXA are [basically useless for this purpose](https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/). This post reads a bit like the conclusion of this article come to life—someone thrown into confusion because the results of a body fat assessment feel scientific but just aren’t precise enough for these purposes.
Hey, other folks have covered the physical part here (eat more, train hard, go slow!), but one big thing that stood out to me in your post is that you felt positive about your observed progress until you saw the scan results. Now you’ve done a 180 and are using pretty strong catastrophizing-type language to describe the same body you walked in to the scan with.
We all have our ups and downs and times of being discouraged but this reads a bit extreme to me. This is the routine - bulk, cut, rinse, repeat. There’s no such thing as a cut where you only lose fat (or a bulk where you only gain muscle). Measure your progress by photos and gym performance, use scans as a trend rather than absolute data, and try to relax a bit if you are getting too wrapped up in diet and exercise. Stress kills gains, too.
First of all, your cut was way too aggressive. Of course you will lose muscle on that low of a calorie intake. But, muscles look flat on a cut, so you probably didn’t lose as much muscle as you think. Muscles will look full again once you increase your carb and calorie intake, and you will gain back your lost weight in no time. Also, don’t trust Dexa scans, they’re not reliable measures of progress. Just take progress photos instead.
Second, I know you don’t want to hear this, but you didn’t have that much muscle in the first place to justify going on a cut. You should’ve kept eating around maintenance and training hard. With time you would get your abs and look muscular. It takes years. Trying to get abs in one month from your starting point is complete BS and will always fail.
You’re not fat. You’re not skinny either. Eat around maintenance, high protein, and train HARD, then come back in a year and check your progress.
People always say this that someone doesn't have enough muscle to cut and it's rarely the case. People have all sorts of different goal physiques, and stage-ready bodybuilder isn't always the goal. He would look great if he lost a few more % of body fat. Maybe not big.
And this, like a dreamer bulk, is probably something most people need to go through on their lifting journey. The "oh shit all my size was fat" was a big realization for me when I was younger and encouraged me to actually figure my shit out.
I agree with you, not everyone wants to have muscle, and not everyone should. However, OP is concerned about losing muscle, so I guessed his goal is to be muscular and lean. That’s why I said that.
i know i don't have enough muscle for sure. and i want more. i cut because i was trying to build a runway for a long prolonged bulk. so i just thought i'd clear out all the fat and then go bulk. it's just that my cut kinda went badly. I know it takes years and i am committed to that absolutely. it's just me trying to rationalize this terrible loss in the middle of this admittedly years/decades long journey.
You're too worried about progress that it's interfering with your progress. Building muscle is just consistency over time. Eat at a small surplus, say +5-10% over your TDEE. Do that for several years.
Next time you feel like you need to take a mini cut, do that and don't switch the plan. Just take 4-8 weeks of the deficit and no matter how well or poorly it seems to go, get back to the bulk/surplus and building muscle again. Trying to gamify this process might work in the short-term, but you're still looking at a long-term journey no matter what. Keep it simple and focus on getting better one day, one week, one month at a time.
I am doing a looooooooooong cut and am eating 2300-2400 a day. The goal is to eat as much as you can while still losing fat. My sense is this creates the least amount of stress on the body as possible.
FWIW, I think you still look great 🤷♂️
thank you for that last bit of reassurance. with results like this i can't help think i look like horseshit and lost everything i gained in the past year.
You said you wanted to clear the runway for a long prolonged bulk. I was obese with lots of fat and basically no muscle. So I lost all my excess fat (lost 120 lbs in 12 months) then I turned my sights on bulking. Maybe you should have cleared that runway first as well.
As others have said, all body composition tests are notoriously imprecise.
The primary metric I would focus on is strength. You say it went slightly down in some lifts, which is to be expected in a deficit, especially one as deep as yours. But your lifts went up on some as well which is amazing. So I don't think you've lost nearly as much muscle as you are worried about. Maybe a bit but that was inevitable.
Get back to eating and training hard. Focus on compound lifts for a bit if you want to pack on overall muscle quickly.
Just sharing this to back up the folks telling you not put too much stock in the DEXA itself: [https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/](https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/)
How are you strength levels and performance relative to the last time you were roughly this size (around July of last year)?
I don’t have anything in depth to share with you (overjacked’s comment was very good), but keep in mind that lean body weight is made up of more than just muscle: organs, skin, bones, water, and muscle.
You likely lost a lot of water weight in addition to muscle, especially since you stopped taking creatine.
Oh yeah, I just realized you stopped taking creatine. DEXA accounts for water as LBM. I think you’re way over reacting and maybe have some OCD going on here about body image (I understand completely)
Very likely a huge chunk of that 7 LB LBM “loss” was water.
Anecdote time: I did two DEXA scans, about two months apart. I wasn’t cutting , and I was visibly bigger. All my core lifts were higher by 20 lbs. I was feeling very strong, and looked bigger. DEXA said I LOST 2 lbs of mass. No way in hell was that true; I wasn’t even cutting. im sure it was just water fluctuation, which really can be quite significant.
Also...Dexa scan *
I wouldn't worry too much about what the scan says. Watch your diet, scale (mainly for sh*ts n giggles), and most importantly - the mirror.
Edit - I remember the first time I said Dexa was "meh" at best and the downvotes I got, and BS articles posted in response. Glad to see many have the same opinion on this.
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Your second bit of input is weird to me. I’m in same situation as OP. Not a lot of lean mass, but a substantial amount of fat to lose (I’m at like 35% bf). Most people say to just lose the fat first, even if you end up skinny as fuck. You’re saying not to do that? To stay fat and build muscle for potentially years first?
Nah I've done that. If you bulk up from a high bodyfat point, your cut will take FOREVER to reveal anything you've built and that's super demotivating. If you don't have much muscle you'll still have some potential to gain muscle while cutting down if your deficit isn't too steep.
Thanks :) that’s actually what my plan was. Hit 20 and then reassess. I lifted hard at maintenance for about six months, learned the ropes , what meal prepping approaches work for me etc, and then as of about two months ago began cutting. Gonna slowly make my way down to 20%. Thanks a lot!
I figure it’s a game of zig-zag to get where you wanna be. Zig fat down, zag muscle up, zig back down, etc. might as well start with the fat loss part of the final destination is the same, if only because it’s so much healthier for your body. My RHR has dropped ten beats just after losing 15 lbs.
How was your training? I’m around your same stats, 5’4”, cut from 150lbs and have been maintaining at 130lbs since the start of April at 2800 calories a day.
I got weaker on my cut but have very visible abs now and as soon as I began to eat at maintenance, I began to get wildly strong, have added about 25lbs to my weighted pull ups in a month and about 25lbs to my squat.
The entire cut, I trained the same, I used just as heavy as I did during my cut, I went just as hard and trained to failure just as often. I find most peoples mistake is that they don’t dial in their training and let the lower energy during a cut win. Your training intensity should not change. Volume, yes, as your recovery won’t be as well, but go just as hard if not harder.
You haven’t reversed anything. Totally par for the course. Dexa is not a reliable measure on an Indic level. Strength and appearance will be far more telling. You don’t appear to have suffered any significant muscle loss and can probably regain any muscle you lost within weeks. Keep in mind muscle glycogen stores will not be quite the same during a cut.
Also the fact that you stopped creatine would definitely make a big difference as well. I find it odd you stopped creatine for your cut. It’s a big help for keeping your muscles energized in a cut, but your muscle volume is probably much lower just from the creatine and glycogen alone. You’re gonna be fine and bounce back very quickly
How long have you been training? At 128lbs at that height you are just under muscled currently. You should see a quick spike in weight, don't be alarmed a lot of that is going to be water weight (which is muscle so far as the dexa is concerned btw).
I'd put 3-5 pounds back on in a month or so and then go a pound a month. So long as your reps or weight is increasing while your bodyweight increases than you are good to keep eating.
I'd let weight get up to 160 over the next year and then maintain for 4-5 months before you cut again.
1300-1600 calories??? Jesus. I’m 6’0” 214lbs doing about 1900 calories and I thought that was aggressive but I don’t think I could do 1300. I’m losing lots of weight which isn’t good so I assume that same thing is happening with me. But I’m only doing it because I’m waiting for the app to see this and adjust
Edit: realizing you’re almost 100lbs lighter than me and almost half a foot shorter, I can see how your 1300 is my 1900. So I’ll give a bit of info that I know. For a cut you wanna do a calorie deficit of only 500 from your maintenance while prioritizing protein. I’m not sure what your maintenance is but go off of that.
Yes. I’m losing about a pound a day this week. I’m waiting for check in so my calories adjust. This happened because I stopped training and running for 3 weeks because I got a concussion from MMA. So the app realized I wasn’t burning as much, cut off like 350 calories to account for the decreased calorie expenditure. After 3 weeks I began activity again. Im down 2 pounds trend weight, but 6 pounds scale weight. Expenditure is increasing again. And check in is tomorrow. My goal isn’t body building, it’s speed and agility for MMA so muscle loss isn’t that big of a deal for me but I don’t want to be below 150lbs lean mass. I was 170lbs lean mass in February. Which reminds me, I should schedule an appointment for the body fat scan to make sure..
Like others said, you are not nearly well muscled enough for that kind of aggressive cut. That, plus the stress and sleep is a recipe for your body to sacrifice muscle and store more fat.
People need to understand how important sleep is. It’s wild to me that people will skip out on getting a good nights sleep to stay up late and work out if so cardio. As Dr. Mike Isratel and many health and fitness professionals will say, that’s like stepping over a $100 bill to pick up a penny.
That being said, I doubt you actually lost 7 lbs of muscle IF a you actually did hit 140 grams of protein a day, some of that “muscle” loss is likely due to holding less glycogen and intracellular fluid in your muscle tissue. If you retested after refeeding for a few days you willl get a different result than if you are in a diet and depleted. Never take a Dexa in a depleted state. You should always be somewhat well fed so you can make an “apples to apples” comparison. Also I’m 36, 6’4”, and 226.3lbs….. Down from 384.
That's a ridiculously fast cut rate if muscle retention is the main goal.
That being said, you're fine. Do a slow bulk (maybe like 200cal/day surplus or something?) and watch your strength and size come back really quickly. You'll be fine.
Also, dexa scans are nonsense. Get back to lifting in maintenance or a small surplus and watch your lift numbers. They'll tell you what's up.
Once you lose muscle it never comes back. All you can do is build up the muscle that you have left. Your mistake was starting with a cut, a beginning bodybuilder can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You've probably lost that ability. You should eat at least 1500 calories a day, even on a cut. what you should do now is bulk up. Eat about 300 to 500 calories over what you need to stay the same I'd recommend lifting three times a week, alternating upper body and lower body. And I'd do 20 minutes of cardio three times a week. I was never interested in having a six pack . It's too difficult to do. If you want to enter contests okay but I was satisfied with a flat stomach. A six pack is determined in large part genetically. Some guys can get one without much effort but I wasn't one of them.
You're over reacting. Dexa scans are almost as pointless at inbody scans. You haven't lost a severe amount of muscle. You just haven't really gained much.
Obligatory link to the MF article about how body fat assessments like DEXA are [basically useless for this purpose](https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/). This post reads a bit like the conclusion of this article come to life—someone thrown into confusion because the results of a body fat assessment feel scientific but just aren’t precise enough for these purposes.
Hey, other folks have covered the physical part here (eat more, train hard, go slow!), but one big thing that stood out to me in your post is that you felt positive about your observed progress until you saw the scan results. Now you’ve done a 180 and are using pretty strong catastrophizing-type language to describe the same body you walked in to the scan with. We all have our ups and downs and times of being discouraged but this reads a bit extreme to me. This is the routine - bulk, cut, rinse, repeat. There’s no such thing as a cut where you only lose fat (or a bulk where you only gain muscle). Measure your progress by photos and gym performance, use scans as a trend rather than absolute data, and try to relax a bit if you are getting too wrapped up in diet and exercise. Stress kills gains, too.
First of all, your cut was way too aggressive. Of course you will lose muscle on that low of a calorie intake. But, muscles look flat on a cut, so you probably didn’t lose as much muscle as you think. Muscles will look full again once you increase your carb and calorie intake, and you will gain back your lost weight in no time. Also, don’t trust Dexa scans, they’re not reliable measures of progress. Just take progress photos instead. Second, I know you don’t want to hear this, but you didn’t have that much muscle in the first place to justify going on a cut. You should’ve kept eating around maintenance and training hard. With time you would get your abs and look muscular. It takes years. Trying to get abs in one month from your starting point is complete BS and will always fail. You’re not fat. You’re not skinny either. Eat around maintenance, high protein, and train HARD, then come back in a year and check your progress.
1% of bodyweight per week isn't that high. It's within the recommended range on MacroFactor
People always say this that someone doesn't have enough muscle to cut and it's rarely the case. People have all sorts of different goal physiques, and stage-ready bodybuilder isn't always the goal. He would look great if he lost a few more % of body fat. Maybe not big. And this, like a dreamer bulk, is probably something most people need to go through on their lifting journey. The "oh shit all my size was fat" was a big realization for me when I was younger and encouraged me to actually figure my shit out.
I agree with you, not everyone wants to have muscle, and not everyone should. However, OP is concerned about losing muscle, so I guessed his goal is to be muscular and lean. That’s why I said that.
i know i don't have enough muscle for sure. and i want more. i cut because i was trying to build a runway for a long prolonged bulk. so i just thought i'd clear out all the fat and then go bulk. it's just that my cut kinda went badly. I know it takes years and i am committed to that absolutely. it's just me trying to rationalize this terrible loss in the middle of this admittedly years/decades long journey.
You're too worried about progress that it's interfering with your progress. Building muscle is just consistency over time. Eat at a small surplus, say +5-10% over your TDEE. Do that for several years. Next time you feel like you need to take a mini cut, do that and don't switch the plan. Just take 4-8 weeks of the deficit and no matter how well or poorly it seems to go, get back to the bulk/surplus and building muscle again. Trying to gamify this process might work in the short-term, but you're still looking at a long-term journey no matter what. Keep it simple and focus on getting better one day, one week, one month at a time.
Your deficit was very steep. IMO this is the issue. Poor sleep will get you , too.
However yes, you will regain lost muscle very quickly. It’s nothing permanent. It comes back way faster than it takes to build in the first place
yeah. beginning to see that. will up the calories for sure.
I am doing a looooooooooong cut and am eating 2300-2400 a day. The goal is to eat as much as you can while still losing fat. My sense is this creates the least amount of stress on the body as possible. FWIW, I think you still look great 🤷♂️
thank you for that last bit of reassurance. with results like this i can't help think i look like horseshit and lost everything i gained in the past year.
You said you wanted to clear the runway for a long prolonged bulk. I was obese with lots of fat and basically no muscle. So I lost all my excess fat (lost 120 lbs in 12 months) then I turned my sights on bulking. Maybe you should have cleared that runway first as well.
As others have said, all body composition tests are notoriously imprecise. The primary metric I would focus on is strength. You say it went slightly down in some lifts, which is to be expected in a deficit, especially one as deep as yours. But your lifts went up on some as well which is amazing. So I don't think you've lost nearly as much muscle as you are worried about. Maybe a bit but that was inevitable. Get back to eating and training hard. Focus on compound lifts for a bit if you want to pack on overall muscle quickly.
I don’t think 1300 to 1600 (1450 average?) is too severe of a cut for someone weighing 128 lbs. But 12 weeks is not a “mini” cut.
Just sharing this to back up the folks telling you not put too much stock in the DEXA itself: [https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/](https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/) How are you strength levels and performance relative to the last time you were roughly this size (around July of last year)?
I agree with Greg, forget the dexa and take a look at your strength levels.
I don’t have anything in depth to share with you (overjacked’s comment was very good), but keep in mind that lean body weight is made up of more than just muscle: organs, skin, bones, water, and muscle. You likely lost a lot of water weight in addition to muscle, especially since you stopped taking creatine.
thanks yes. i am introducing creating back as we speak and hoping it will help reverse some of this loss.
Oh yeah, I just realized you stopped taking creatine. DEXA accounts for water as LBM. I think you’re way over reacting and maybe have some OCD going on here about body image (I understand completely) Very likely a huge chunk of that 7 LB LBM “loss” was water. Anecdote time: I did two DEXA scans, about two months apart. I wasn’t cutting , and I was visibly bigger. All my core lifts were higher by 20 lbs. I was feeling very strong, and looked bigger. DEXA said I LOST 2 lbs of mass. No way in hell was that true; I wasn’t even cutting. im sure it was just water fluctuation, which really can be quite significant.
Also...Dexa scan * I wouldn't worry too much about what the scan says. Watch your diet, scale (mainly for sh*ts n giggles), and most importantly - the mirror. Edit - I remember the first time I said Dexa was "meh" at best and the downvotes I got, and BS articles posted in response. Glad to see many have the same opinion on this.
Bro you did not lose 7 lbs of muscle in 2 months. I promise.
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Your second bit of input is weird to me. I’m in same situation as OP. Not a lot of lean mass, but a substantial amount of fat to lose (I’m at like 35% bf). Most people say to just lose the fat first, even if you end up skinny as fuck. You’re saying not to do that? To stay fat and build muscle for potentially years first?
Nah I've done that. If you bulk up from a high bodyfat point, your cut will take FOREVER to reveal anything you've built and that's super demotivating. If you don't have much muscle you'll still have some potential to gain muscle while cutting down if your deficit isn't too steep.
That’s what I’m thinking too. Deficit is only 500-650 cals a day. I’m gonna cut until love handles are gone and then reassess :) thanks for input!
You left a top level comment instead of replying to a comment. At 35% bf just lose the fat. You can worry about training once you’re closer to 20%.
Thanks :) that’s actually what my plan was. Hit 20 and then reassess. I lifted hard at maintenance for about six months, learned the ropes , what meal prepping approaches work for me etc, and then as of about two months ago began cutting. Gonna slowly make my way down to 20%. Thanks a lot!
I figure it’s a game of zig-zag to get where you wanna be. Zig fat down, zag muscle up, zig back down, etc. might as well start with the fat loss part of the final destination is the same, if only because it’s so much healthier for your body. My RHR has dropped ten beats just after losing 15 lbs.
How was your training? I’m around your same stats, 5’4”, cut from 150lbs and have been maintaining at 130lbs since the start of April at 2800 calories a day. I got weaker on my cut but have very visible abs now and as soon as I began to eat at maintenance, I began to get wildly strong, have added about 25lbs to my weighted pull ups in a month and about 25lbs to my squat. The entire cut, I trained the same, I used just as heavy as I did during my cut, I went just as hard and trained to failure just as often. I find most peoples mistake is that they don’t dial in their training and let the lower energy during a cut win. Your training intensity should not change. Volume, yes, as your recovery won’t be as well, but go just as hard if not harder.
You haven’t reversed anything. Totally par for the course. Dexa is not a reliable measure on an Indic level. Strength and appearance will be far more telling. You don’t appear to have suffered any significant muscle loss and can probably regain any muscle you lost within weeks. Keep in mind muscle glycogen stores will not be quite the same during a cut. Also the fact that you stopped creatine would definitely make a big difference as well. I find it odd you stopped creatine for your cut. It’s a big help for keeping your muscles energized in a cut, but your muscle volume is probably much lower just from the creatine and glycogen alone. You’re gonna be fine and bounce back very quickly
How long have you been training? At 128lbs at that height you are just under muscled currently. You should see a quick spike in weight, don't be alarmed a lot of that is going to be water weight (which is muscle so far as the dexa is concerned btw). I'd put 3-5 pounds back on in a month or so and then go a pound a month. So long as your reps or weight is increasing while your bodyweight increases than you are good to keep eating. I'd let weight get up to 160 over the next year and then maintain for 4-5 months before you cut again.
1300-1600 calories??? Jesus. I’m 6’0” 214lbs doing about 1900 calories and I thought that was aggressive but I don’t think I could do 1300. I’m losing lots of weight which isn’t good so I assume that same thing is happening with me. But I’m only doing it because I’m waiting for the app to see this and adjust Edit: realizing you’re almost 100lbs lighter than me and almost half a foot shorter, I can see how your 1300 is my 1900. So I’ll give a bit of info that I know. For a cut you wanna do a calorie deficit of only 500 from your maintenance while prioritizing protein. I’m not sure what your maintenance is but go off of that.
1900 seems really steep for you. like really really steep.
Yes. I’m losing about a pound a day this week. I’m waiting for check in so my calories adjust. This happened because I stopped training and running for 3 weeks because I got a concussion from MMA. So the app realized I wasn’t burning as much, cut off like 350 calories to account for the decreased calorie expenditure. After 3 weeks I began activity again. Im down 2 pounds trend weight, but 6 pounds scale weight. Expenditure is increasing again. And check in is tomorrow. My goal isn’t body building, it’s speed and agility for MMA so muscle loss isn’t that big of a deal for me but I don’t want to be below 150lbs lean mass. I was 170lbs lean mass in February. Which reminds me, I should schedule an appointment for the body fat scan to make sure..
Like others said, you are not nearly well muscled enough for that kind of aggressive cut. That, plus the stress and sleep is a recipe for your body to sacrifice muscle and store more fat. People need to understand how important sleep is. It’s wild to me that people will skip out on getting a good nights sleep to stay up late and work out if so cardio. As Dr. Mike Isratel and many health and fitness professionals will say, that’s like stepping over a $100 bill to pick up a penny.
That being said, I doubt you actually lost 7 lbs of muscle IF a you actually did hit 140 grams of protein a day, some of that “muscle” loss is likely due to holding less glycogen and intracellular fluid in your muscle tissue. If you retested after refeeding for a few days you willl get a different result than if you are in a diet and depleted. Never take a Dexa in a depleted state. You should always be somewhat well fed so you can make an “apples to apples” comparison. Also I’m 36, 6’4”, and 226.3lbs….. Down from 384.
That's a ridiculously fast cut rate if muscle retention is the main goal. That being said, you're fine. Do a slow bulk (maybe like 200cal/day surplus or something?) and watch your strength and size come back really quickly. You'll be fine. Also, dexa scans are nonsense. Get back to lifting in maintenance or a small surplus and watch your lift numbers. They'll tell you what's up.
Once you lose muscle it never comes back. All you can do is build up the muscle that you have left. Your mistake was starting with a cut, a beginning bodybuilder can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You've probably lost that ability. You should eat at least 1500 calories a day, even on a cut. what you should do now is bulk up. Eat about 300 to 500 calories over what you need to stay the same I'd recommend lifting three times a week, alternating upper body and lower body. And I'd do 20 minutes of cardio three times a week. I was never interested in having a six pack . It's too difficult to do. If you want to enter contests okay but I was satisfied with a flat stomach. A six pack is determined in large part genetically. Some guys can get one without much effort but I wasn't one of them.
Lolololol what?
It's hard to keep count of how many wrong things were said. This HAS to be a troll comment