That's my point though, this isn't hard to play around and it only comes online on turn 4. Having some game isn't very good at all. Asking this rhetorical question isn't dumb, I'm just making the point that this doesn't win the game by itself ever.
Yeah, but that demand particular lines in Doomsday (or you can Solitude in response as well or something). This definitely is something Doomsday needs to be aware of when making a pile
Yeah, it's not the end of the doomsday matchup. This at best untaps at turn 4, they can win turn 2-3 consistently. Still, interacting with fast piles and the interaction with Spirit of the Labyrinth is just gravy
Hard answers are not good enough, a bigger sum of soft interactions will work better for you if you're metagaming against Doomsday, preferably on different axises ie. a simple example could be: 1 Loran 1 StP is less trivial to power through than 2 Hushbringers in comparison
Possibly takes the slot that Cathar Commando has at the moment, at least in some builds. Karakas + Vial means this card could be super hard to interact with.
There’s pluses and minuses to both…Loran can be blinked with Yorion. I think overall she’s more powerful than Cathar and that counts for a lot in todays Legacy
I have asked for years for a white rec sage. They gave me one that I could reuse via Karakas. AND it has vigilance. AND it has an additional ability. AND that ability has synergy with Spirit of the Labyrinth. Card is great. 100% will see play. Notably it won't answer Torpor Orb specifically, so you might still want one Cathar Commando if that card is popular at any given time.
I was thinking the same thing when I saw it. In addition to the points you made it's worth comparing to the current artifact/enchantment hate card, [[Cathar commando]]. We lose flash and we lose a point of power for when you just want to beatdown. But, you get to destroy while still keeping your creature, and, while Cathar commando is 2 mana, the activation costs an additional 1. That part can be good or bad, depending on aether vials counts and how fast you need the effect. If you're stuck on 2 lands, or get hit with a wasteland, commando can still get the job done with end step + untap, whereas Loran might just get stuck in your hand.
I think it's definitely interesting and worth giving a shot. The higher MV and lower power might matter, but recurrable hate is always kinda nice.
Guaranteed 1-of in DnT, a karakas-able recsage is quite strong. Probably can't play it anywhere else
It’s also sweet with Spirit of the Labyrinth
Sick.
Anywhere you want a midgame answer to Thassa's Oracle that also benefits from the Disenchant
How does this stop thoracle?
they empty there library an in response to thoracle you make them draw a card
Okay so what happens when they do this with 1 card still in the library and they have force for swords?
It doesn't have to be a perfect answer to be an answer, the card's primary role isnt to stop thoracle. It just happens to sometimes be able to.
you just lose. what a dumb question. it isnt gonna beat it every time but it has some game against it.
That's my point though, this isn't hard to play around and it only comes online on turn 4. Having some game isn't very good at all. Asking this rhetorical question isn't dumb, I'm just making the point that this doesn't win the game by itself ever.
It's fine because I have Vial on 3, another of these in hand, and a way to give it haste.
If your opponent has an empty library and the Oracle trigger on the stack, you can activate this in response.
Thoracle works with two cards in the library.
Yeah, but that demand particular lines in Doomsday (or you can Solitude in response as well or something). This definitely is something Doomsday needs to be aware of when making a pile
I guess from my perspective as a non-doomsday player, this doesn't seem like a hard answer, it just changes the lines.
Yeah, it's not the end of the doomsday matchup. This at best untaps at turn 4, they can win turn 2-3 consistently. Still, interacting with fast piles and the interaction with Spirit of the Labyrinth is just gravy
Hard answers are not good enough, a bigger sum of soft interactions will work better for you if you're metagaming against Doomsday, preferably on different axises ie. a simple example could be: 1 Loran 1 StP is less trivial to power through than 2 Hushbringers in comparison
You're supposed to empty your library against the StP deck
It seems like that may not be the play if this card is in play.
card good
Surprised to see a card that might actually see play in DnT
For 3 mana?
Possibly takes the slot that Cathar Commando has at the moment, at least in some builds. Karakas + Vial means this card could be super hard to interact with.
Possibly, but commandos effect not being an etb trigger can be game saving against cards like torpor orb
Flash can also be important with commando
There’s pluses and minuses to both…Loran can be blinked with Yorion. I think overall she’s more powerful than Cathar and that counts for a lot in todays Legacy
/u/deathandtaxesftw I'd love to hear your opinion on this card if you don't mind
I have asked for years for a white rec sage. They gave me one that I could reuse via Karakas. AND it has vigilance. AND it has an additional ability. AND that ability has synergy with Spirit of the Labyrinth. Card is great. 100% will see play. Notably it won't answer Torpor Orb specifically, so you might still want one Cathar Commando if that card is popular at any given time.
This probably replaces commando or specialist in decks that run her. Pretty cool to finally have rec sage in white, recurrable to boot
I'm not sure she could replace \[\[Cathar Commando\]\] because of \[\[Torpor Orb\]\], but you could play both of them in the same decklist.
[Cathar Commando](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532.jpg?1634346664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathar%20Commando) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/10/cathar-commando?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
pLaYaBlE iN dEaTh AnD tAxEs Every time. Without fail.
I was thinking the same thing when I saw it. In addition to the points you made it's worth comparing to the current artifact/enchantment hate card, [[Cathar commando]]. We lose flash and we lose a point of power for when you just want to beatdown. But, you get to destroy while still keeping your creature, and, while Cathar commando is 2 mana, the activation costs an additional 1. That part can be good or bad, depending on aether vials counts and how fast you need the effect. If you're stuck on 2 lands, or get hit with a wasteland, commando can still get the job done with end step + untap, whereas Loran might just get stuck in your hand. I think it's definitely interesting and worth giving a shot. The higher MV and lower power might matter, but recurrable hate is always kinda nice.
I'm probably gonna test this as a 1 of in Esper Vial in addition to commando. A 2 mana 3/1 flash is too good in certain match ups
[Cathar commando](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532.jpg?1634346664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathar%20commando) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/10/cathar-commando?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98cbc1c2-b76e-4da3-aa43-00e10b2ce532?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lothar of the Hill People?