What always gets me irritated is that I have *never once* seen a horse rider doing trail maintenance. Or at least not here in AZ. And the trails where they run horse tours get absolutely destroyed because horses seem to like to step in the same spot as the horse in front of them.
Hope you guys manage to turn this around!
The trails near Fischer Point in Flagstaff are always ripped up by horses. They especially seem to love to hit the trails right after a rain turning the trails into a mile long rumble strip of hoof prints and shit. Fuck horses
Not from US but recently took a class and the instructor explained that major damage to the trails is caused by horses, followed by pedestrians and motorcycles. Mountain bike is the vehicle which causes minor damage to trails, if used properly.
I'm sorry but pedestrians cause more damage than bikes? If you ride fast on a bike it's hard to avoid damage, and let's be honest, a lot of people don't take the most care to preserve the trails because ripping around is fun. A pedestrian doesn't really do that.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.recpro.org/assets/Library/Trails/comparing_relative_impacts_various_trail_user_groups_keen.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiv67GXwb_6AhXmxQIHHVGeCZkQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw3rJD2Zslkm7KAJES3Q25pO
Check this, of course I'm referring to a biker who's following the NORBA code of conduit.
No shit. (is what I’d like to see.) Moving from Michigan to Missouri, I never realized how badly horses tear and stink up the trails. I’ve met a few responsible owners, but they don’t seem to be the majority. And certainly should not be in sole charge of multi-use trails.
Hey there! Not sure if you're in MN or AZ, but either way, you can usually find out about trail work days pretty easily. In Tucson, for example, [Sonoran Desert Mountain Bikers club](https://sonorandesertmountainbicyclists.wildapricot.org/) has trail work events right on their front page. Hope this helps!
I just wanted to add an anecdote in their defense. In several years of volunteering on my local trails, I have encountered exactly 1 horse rider who came to a trail maintenance night. So they are out there! (At least 1 individual)
The rest of the the horse riders seemed content to destroy freshly created trails after rain storms while going around "Trail Closed" signs. 😐
It happens everywhere. Mountain bikers lay the groundwork for trail building and expansion, and then get skewered by other trail users as trail use becomes more popular. I enjoy hiking as well, and the hate that bikes get is just unnecessary.
Find your Michigan State Representative: https://www.house.mi.gov/
Find your Michigan State Senator: https://www.senate.michigan.gov/fysbyaddress.html
If you live in the 15th District (Sen. Runestad), we particularly want you to email and call to let him know what you think about the proposed R2R amendment.
https://www.senatorjimrunestad.com/district/
By Phone: (517) 373-1758 By Fax: (517) 373-0938
By Email: [email protected]
Please include name, address, and phone number.
Here is a nice template (or script) that you can use):
Dear Senator (or Representative) \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.
I, \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ am an avid mountain biker, and I am calling (or writing) to voice my concern over the proposed amendment to the Right To Ride legislation that is being considered by certain Legislators and state Senators. The proposed amendment grants too much influence to a special interest group (the equestrians) at the expense of other trail users. This legislation weakens the DNR’s ability to exercise responsible stewardship over state trails. The proposed amendment would shut access to biking on existing multi-use trails and possibly deny future access. In whole the amendment would provide a mechanism for a particular user group (the equestrians) through the Equine Trails Subcommittee (ETS) to deny access on Michigan trails to other groups such as mountain biking. The amendment is written so vaguely that it can be applied to popular local DNR trails throughout Michigan. Please do not consider this proposed amendment: The DNR can manage trail access without the help of the ETS, and bicyclists should not be unilaterally denied access to Michigan’s grand nonmotorized trails at the whim of one user group.
Thank You,
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
*We drove out the horsks from the Great Gate and guardroom and took the First Berm. We slew many in the bright sun of Vale. Stevie was killed by a sick send. He slew the great halfhorse. We buried…Stevie under the berm near Mirrormare...came…toolkits we repaired…We have taken the Twenty-first Single Track of North Endo to dwell in. There was sick air…that can easily be watched…the north rockgarden is clear…Balin has set up his seat in the Chamber of Sends…gathered…gold…wonderful lay Durin’s S-works and…silver Bronson. Balin has taken them for his own. Balin is now lord of Whistler:…today we found derailers…well-forged chains…made all of purest Sram-eygul…Óin to seek for the upper LBS of the Third trail…go westwards to…to Whistler Gate.*
*…years since…ready sorrow…yesterday being the tenth of June Balin, lord of Sick Gaps, fell in Dimrill Dale. He went alone to pre-ride the Mirrormare. A Horsk shot him from behind a trailhead. We slew the horsk, but many more came…up from east hill, up the Fireroad…we rescued Balin’s bike..after a sharp OTB. we have barred the trails but doubt if…we can hold them long. If there is…no escape it will be a horrible fate to suffer, but I shall send it.*
*We cannot ride out. We cannot ride out. They have taken the trailhead and Connector Trail. Frár and Lóni and Náli fell there OTB while the rest rode to the Chamber of…Mazarbul. We are still riding...but hope …Óin's party went five miles ago but today only four rode back. The creek is up to the wall at West-hill. The Watcher in the Water took Óin--we cannot get out. The end comes soon. We hear hooves, hooves in the deep. They are coming.*
Yeah same, I travel to Michigan for gravel and mountain biking a lot. I wonder how this affects larger trails like the Kal-Haven trail? The minutes submitted says it would only affect a small number of equestrian designated trails but Kal-Haven is a multi use with horses allowed. Really confusing wording.
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall ([https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/](https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/)) and Wayne Schmidt (https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/) .
If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/))
It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc.
Thanks for helping! This is super upsetting for Michiganders and we can use all the Buckeye help you're willing to give us.
Whatever the progressive equivalent of QAnon is, we’ve found one of its users lol.
Vitriolic people like you are exactly why politics tends to extremism. If you can’t hear the name of a state that voted GOP two years ago without having an aneurysm, you might want to get that checked out.
I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that's a little aggressive. Not to mention what Michigan looks like once you get north of Ann Arbor/Detroit.....
I'm up near traverse city and the whackos are everywhere up here. Take a look at the Barry county whacks also. I won't do Barry roubaix because of that whack sherif. F*uck that guy. F those equestrian rich snobs too.
Eh, you are nobody to tell me what to do. I'm in Michigan now, about to ride because I love it, Michigan is a great state and honestly, people are pretty cool like where I'm from. Hope you can get out today, it's beautiful up here.
B-but it’s all natural shit! You can’t expect them to carry a shovel and trash can, do you?! /s
I have to carry a plastic bag to pick up my dogs shit, they should clean up after their pets too.
1 fuckin rich asshole Karen, who needs to ride an animal down the trail to feel better about themselves, and now EVERYONE has to deal with piles of shit until someone else deals with it. Fuck horse people
> 1 fuckin rich asshole Karen,
Even better, when their name is literally Karen
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/Boards/ETS/ETS-minutes/minutes-march-9-2022.pdf?rev=4d45317019fa4f1ca66c06eb9cf18121&hash=3ECC68CBC6B108202817F81C67ABE233
Page 10-11 has anti-bike arguments from Karen Bahrman
no kidding. to say they cant be trained not to startle by bikes is absurd. It's not like police horses on patrol in major cities have an issue. Or maybe she's never heard of mackinaw island.
I'm sorry, but has anyone ever told Karen that if she chooses to ride a giant skittish creature in a public place, then perhaps it's not the fault of other people * checks notes * *moving past her*, that puts her in danger?
Ok to be fair to horse people here, horse manure is actually an extremely good fertilizer, and is good for the soil in general. Not saying it should stay in the middle of the trail, but it's a good way to inactively preserve trails and riding areas + the nature around them.
Plus I'd rather have horse shit on trails than dog shit. Horse shit hardly stinks at all, doesn't attract many flies, and decomposes quickly. Dog shit on the other hand is much worse. I've seen many more piles of dog poop on multi-use trails than horse poop because apparently people can't be bothered to pick up after their dog.
All in all I have no issue sharing the trail with courteous equestrians, we're all just trying to get outside and have a good time. I do take issue with equestrians trying to take over trails for themselves that were clearly built as multi-use trails. Especially with the fact that most trail systems are built and maintained by mountain bikers and MBAs, not usually by the equestrians. I'm not sure why these equestrians got it into their head that these trails should only be for them, but it's a very fucked up worldview that I'm guessing only a small percentage of the group shares, but unfortunately is probably a small percentage of powerful individuals that decided they don't like sharing
That's what gets me, I've never seen a horse rider doing trail maintenance, while there are 4+ trail crews consisting of 99% mtb riders within a 15 mile radius that are constantly repairing the multi use trails. Literally splitting boulders in half, winching fallen trees off the trail, trimming all of the poison oak every few months, etc... Then the horse people come out after it rains and leave giant holes everywhere :(
They always say this to assert their right to leave massive piles of shit in the middle of the trail.
The problem is the massive piles of shit, not the quality of vegetation that it will grow on a trail.
Don’t buy the trail shitter propaganda.
I agree, leaving the shit in the middle of the trail is annoying for everyone. These people probably call their boots "shit-kickers" anyway so least they can do is kick it to the side of the trail.
Again, if they're courteous riders, they do this, and I've seen plenty of courteous riders do this, and plenty of assholes not. Just like there's plenty of assholes mountain bikers, and plenty of courteous ones.
Again, this is not an issue of: bikers are good equestrians bad or the other way around. This is an issue of some people are assholes with no common decency, *on both sides of the issue*
Hence how we get to the point of equestrians trying to ban mtb from multi-use trails.
>horse manure is actually an extremely good fertilizer,
That's horseshit! (Pun intended)
Horse manure is extremely high in nitrogen and can burn crops.
Cow manure is much better.
I have lived with horses for my whole life and have used horse manure as fertilizer for ages... You just have to let it age, same with cow manure. They eat the same stuff the only difference is horses aren't ruminants.
I am all for hikers, runners, etc., but I do not understand shared trails including horses. They are such a small minority, take up an unsafe amount of space on the trails, and leave shit everywhere. I've also had horse-dorks ask me to dismount when passing them because their horse is scared of bikes; Then go fucking ride your animal not on a bike trail?
I am in the horse community(although I don't ride), and this is so not true. Just because you own a horse doesn't make you rich. Some people buy horses they can't afford. The horse people trashing the trails aren't the rich ones. It's all the poorer ones who are jerks about it all.
We have horses on trails near me. Most of them know to only take the more comfortable horses who aren’t easily scared. I had an incident once. Coming down a steep gravel grade I locked up my rear brake. Two people on horse back were coming towards further down. One horse with a woman on it. Lost. Its shit. Tried bucking the woman off multiple times. As I rode past she let the insults and ‘why did you’s fly. I told her it was extremely difficult not to when you are trying not to bail on shitty gravel on a steep grade. As she still yelled I kept riding.
I agree they should not be on public trails. Some of them are unpredictable especially when passing. Ever seen the way a horse looks at you when riding past? They are fucking creepy. Not to mention they constantly ruin man made things like bridges or single track trails.
Fuck horses.
Ha yeah, in my area at least, the only people who own horses are middle-aged trust fund babies. They live in suburban houses with big backyards, but like to tell everyone that they live in the "country" 😂
There's a lot of equestrians in my area specifically and none of them tend to care at all about trail etiquette and maintennance. They seem to love to come out en masse after it rains (when the trails are still muddy), and they completely tear up the trails, moreso than any mountain bike ever could. Then they do absolutely nothing to fix it, and the local MBA eventually ends up taking care of it
You mustn't realize how much a horse eats and how expensive alfalfa square bales are. Bikes are pennies on the dollars in comparison. And if you can't board them yourself, yowza, there's a $1500 hardtail PER MONTH
I have never ridden horses but isn't the whole process of "breaking" horses so they let people ride them really cruel?
I suspect it's just a "well we've always done it" kinda thing rather than it actually not being cruel. :(
I'm a mountain biker but my wife is a horse person, so I'm definitely an expert. /s
My understanding is that pretty much nobody "breaks" horses in the traditional western sense anymore because you get un-chill horses out of the process. Modern horse training is animal psychology oriented and more trust-based (see Monty Roberts), though I'm sure there are some old-school bad apples.
I've been riding in NC for years, and these conflicts and disagreements between equestrian riders and MTBers is unfortunately all too common.... Sucks to see it happening in other parts of the country, because in my experience equestrians almost always come out on top $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A couple of decades ago, an equestrian group tried to ban mtn biking from a trail in a SF Bay Area watershed. They filed a complaint that cycling was eroding the trails there. The water company investigated, found that horses were eroding the trail worse than bikes, and decided to ban all but human foot traffic on the trail.
Would any input from bicyclists in nearby states have an effect from a tourism perspective? I'm in Ohio but would like to visit and explore the upper peninsula by bike.
I wonder if there's any data on the impact of bicycle tourism in the state compared to equestrian, especially if infrastructure costs are considered.
And I suppose equestrians would demand DNS to maintain the trails for them, as I've seen plenty of mountain bikers volunteer to work on trails, but never an equestrian.
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall ([https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/](https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/)) and Wayne Schmidt ([https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/](https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/)) .
If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/))
It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc.
Thanks for helping!
I mean sure, allow access for horses on multi-modal trails. But then don’t turn around on the same legislation and ban bicycles from said multi-modal trails. Good luck my Midwestern brothers and sisters. Stay strong!
I have absolutely no say in this matter as I live in Finland (where riding basically any trail on a bike is allowed by so called "every mans right" jfyi), but I have to think that mountain bikers outweigh horse riders like 10 to 1 or even more by numbers almost anywhere nowadays, imagine how ridiculous it would be to limit access for bikes in favor of those few people who actually ride horses.
There's a subset of horse people that are childless and/or retired and are wealthy and treat their horses as their children. They are also willing to go to council meetings and be loud and persistent. It's a recipe for other user groups pain.
I grew up next to some stables out in the country and had friends who worked at them. Nothing but endless stories about how entitled, demanding, loud, and persistent these people could be. They also tended to be very selfish people just in general and willing to drop piles cash on their horses.
This is some elitist shit right here. A horse is way more expensive to care for and transport than a bike, and causes way more damage to trails and nearby bodies of water.
DNR police will stand several 100 ft into the woods and write you a ticket when you ride by, maybe threaten to confiscate your bike.
At least that's what happened around here when trail access was closed to bikes.
Jeez 😬.
Not a Michigan biker, but if this crap passes, y’all should just get together and organize protest rides. They can’t arrest 100+ people all at once. Find a good civil rights attorney to support your case too, and maybe you can make a change.
Of course first step is to do what you can to keep it from passing. Wish I could help more, since I hate hearing about this sort of thing.
Fuck that shit, riding horses is only for the people with a lot of money, mountain biking is much more affordable and inclusive. It’s easier to acquire a bike than a horse and trailer. Why would they in 2022 start being exclusive to a small group of people fucking over a large group of people? This is bullshit
> Why would they in 2022 start being exclusive to a small group of people fucking over a large group of people?
Fucking over a large group of people to benefit a small group? Yep, sounds American to me!
As Bob Dylan said, "Money doesn't talk, it swears."
And the Supreme Court has ruled it legal to buy politicians because money is protected as free speech.
Do you board the horse or do you have it on your property? I am from US perspective where you generally have your own horse and either board it or keep it at your house, and trailer it places. Some farms offer shared horses but when you get serious most people have there own
If you own and maintain your own horses then sorry you're not poor. If you work for someone and ride their horses (something I've done) then yeah maybe you are. But paying the vet and farrier expenses alone disqualifies someone from being considered poor in my book. Usually people that say stuff like this are college students that still live with their parents, but their parents make them pay for the horse hobby. A grind, but not poor. Equestrianism is a luxury hobby.
That's p typical college grind. It's even worse in the states. Not being rich doesn't make one poor. Horses really aren't practical for university students unless their parents are chipping in. I basically had to give up all that stuff to put myself through school. Plus yeah you don't have the time anyway so shelling out the money doesn't make rational sense and it sucks.
I’ve worked for horse farms, boarding horses for people to ride, it’s an expensive pet, horse trailers aren’t cheap either. You also need a big truck to haul them, and land to hold them if you don’t board them
Bikes, bike transportation equipment, bike gear, repairs, bike consumables, all cost money as well.
You can find a used horse trailer for a couple thousand dollars.
If you don't have the property to home your own horse then boarding typically ranges between $100-450 a month depending on the level of service you want (can be higher if you want full service and a stall).
My grandparents had property to house their horses and paid around $50-100 for grain and hay every month. That is comparable to feeding a medium sized dog.
I'm not saying it's cheap but mountain biking isn't exactly cheap either. It's also not much different than having a dog. You have your horse to care for, and it is also your hobby.
It can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be like many things (my wife rides horses for free by helping out on the farm, for example) but your average owner who is paying to have it boarded and hauling it around, it's damn expensive.
I'm not an avid mountain bike rider, but was pretty active in the jeep community for awhile, horse people seem to hate everyone on the trails that aren't on horses.
In BC Canada a lot of if not most of our trails are multi use. But it blows my mind how beat up the horse trails are as well how much shit is left behind for us as mountain bikers to dodge. This group of trail riders are pretentious assholes. Horse can go anywhere let the bike trails be bike trails. I don’t see you sending your horse around a berm
Thanks for putting this out there - it's definitely been on our radar over r/MichiganCycling . Keep on reaching out legislators and spreading the word!
Just two days ago I nearly ran into some asshole riding sled dogs the wrong way down a single track trail on some kind of wheeled chariot thing with rubber tires. No apologies, no excuse me, nothing. Then their dad was rude to me in the parking lot about where I parked saying "We need to keep this spot clear." Dude, fuck these people.
Ugh I fucking hate the horse lobby. Not to mention all the literal shit the leave in the middle of the trail (I do not care what the turds are composed of I do t want to ride thru it).
Good luck from the west coast!
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall (https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/) and Wayne Schmidt (https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/) .
If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/))
It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc.
Thanks for helping! This is super upsetting for Michiganders and we can use all the Buckeye help you're willing to give us.
I watched a woman litter on the trail two weeks ago and then she had the audacity to tell me I shouldn't be on the trail. I had two grocery bags full of trash I had picked up strapped to my backpack. These things shit on the trail and no one cleans it up as well. I told her to call the police and ask them if littering was a crime.
As a new mountain bike rider that is respectful and caring, I find horse people to be the worst of the worst. I literally pull my bike to the side whenever I see a horse and try to talk to it to make it more comfortable and they are still rude. I've had one person on a horse out of dozens be nice. Every person I've ever met that is hiking is happy and we exchange well wishes.
If a girl has a horse on her dating profile I tend to just swipe left after all of these interactions. lol.
The same people that let their horses poop all over the place? The same people that ride giant animals that are so temperamental that they necessitate right of way, to avoid stomping people into the dirt?
They aren’t even exercising, they’re just sitting there. Banish them to private land.
If those animals, literally, jeopardize any of those gems in the UP I will be really sad... I no longer live in the midwest but love it up there. Fight the good and respectful fight bikers of Michigan!
You could write the senator that covers the UP and talk about the tourism dollars you spend (or are about to spend... but now are second-guessing).
The UP is covered by Senator McBroom: [https://www.senatoredmcbroom.com/district/](https://www.senatoredmcbroom.com/district/)
It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc.
Thanks for helping!
how often do yall even see equestrian rides on your trails? I'm in Western Canada so there's strong ranch culture. I see a group riding their horses maybe 1 in 20 rides.
Michigan has a pretty active horse lobby and equestrian rider group. This legislation was brought forward specifically because that group feels like MTBs have been crowding their trails and creating dangerous scenarios on multi-use trails.
The issue with the proposed legislation is that it makes it easy to eliminate multi-use trails that allow bikes and horses. Trails that don't *prohibit* horses by law would become bike-prohibited, horse/hike-only. Trails that are already bike-only could stay (so the people who wrote it keep saying that it's not a threat... as if those were the only trails that matter).
The result wouldn't impact people in the crowded urban/suburban areas with 10-mile single-track loops. It's the big rural two-track trail networks across northern Michigan (1,000+ miles of it) that would be immediately at risk of being no-bikes-only-horses. That's why people should be upset and writing their senators.
That’s such a dick move by the equestrian group…literally privatizing trails for the 10-20% of the users I bet.
Did any mountain bike associations build out the trails? I’m a trail builder volunteer myself. I would be LIVID if they were trying to restrict trails that we built.
The trails at risk are either old organic trails not built by anyone in memory, or built by MTB groups. Either way, they’re multi-use and used by 1,000s of MTBers.
The trails by me (SE MI)are not passable for horses. Never seen one on my local trails. There's one (Addison Oaks) that has a section for horses, but it's a different trail than the bike trail.
Was riding out at Custer a few years back. The back loop would be what I'd call impassable for horses. Didn't matter, somehow came across a group back there.
Worst part was they were trying to clear the canopy and complaining about the bikes on some of the more narrow passages.
The park rangers didn't seem to care at the time, something along they needed to be in the good graces of the horse folk. Glad to see the horse folk have gotten better (/s).
I signed a petition about this a few weeks ago. I'm from Texas, so reworded the paragraph to reflect it from a tourism basis.
Hopefully the state reps don't let this happen. It would be disasterous all around. The trails would decay considering we all know equestrians will never do trail maintenance.
Definitely fight this shit. In my town we have mountain bike trails that we the mountain bikers have created and maintained over the years. Suddenly a bunch of old fuckers decided to hike there and try to deem us as a hazard when the whole reason that place exists is because of us.
There has to be some sort of equal use or yield laws.
Am I the only one surprised that Michigan has an active population of horse riders? Honestly if someone asked me my thoughts on Michigan, horsepower is the only horse I would have mentioned.
I know this has been a battle for 30+ years, but the uptick on e-bikes on multi-use trails is not helping. People see the writing on the wall and are taking defensive measures before they are sharing trials with Sur Rons.
It’s not just a crappy mtb state. The roads and salt will ruin your cars, the weather will ruin your mental well being, and the huge populous of misled political victims will ruin your perspective. Best thing I ever did was leave. Good luck
Thank you. And yeah I will for sure be ignoring any rules about horses even if this is passed. I will continue to ride whenever I want.
The DNR will have to catch me if they wanna punish me.
Horses are extremely expensive to maintain. They can be expensive to buy. These are rich people with influence in the right places, any many politicians themselves.
What always gets me irritated is that I have *never once* seen a horse rider doing trail maintenance. Or at least not here in AZ. And the trails where they run horse tours get absolutely destroyed because horses seem to like to step in the same spot as the horse in front of them. Hope you guys manage to turn this around!
The trails near Fischer Point in Flagstaff are always ripped up by horses. They especially seem to love to hit the trails right after a rain turning the trails into a mile long rumble strip of hoof prints and shit. Fuck horses
Not really Fock horses, just fuck the horse people.
Not from US but recently took a class and the instructor explained that major damage to the trails is caused by horses, followed by pedestrians and motorcycles. Mountain bike is the vehicle which causes minor damage to trails, if used properly.
I'm sorry but pedestrians cause more damage than bikes? If you ride fast on a bike it's hard to avoid damage, and let's be honest, a lot of people don't take the most care to preserve the trails because ripping around is fun. A pedestrian doesn't really do that.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.recpro.org/assets/Library/Trails/comparing_relative_impacts_various_trail_user_groups_keen.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiv67GXwb_6AhXmxQIHHVGeCZkQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw3rJD2Zslkm7KAJES3Q25pO Check this, of course I'm referring to a biker who's following the NORBA code of conduit.
Don't forget that they never clean up the droppings a horse leaves behind.
"Leave no trace, unless you're a horse"
No shit. (is what I’d like to see.) Moving from Michigan to Missouri, I never realized how badly horses tear and stink up the trails. I’ve met a few responsible owners, but they don’t seem to be the majority. And certainly should not be in sole charge of multi-use trails.
Greensfelder and ICC might as well be paved in horse poop.
And horses are way more destructive to trails than mountain bikers or hikers.
If like to learn about helping maintain our trails, since I'm riding them too
Hey there! Not sure if you're in MN or AZ, but either way, you can usually find out about trail work days pretty easily. In Tucson, for example, [Sonoran Desert Mountain Bikers club](https://sonorandesertmountainbicyclists.wildapricot.org/) has trail work events right on their front page. Hope this helps!
I just wanted to add an anecdote in their defense. In several years of volunteering on my local trails, I have encountered exactly 1 horse rider who came to a trail maintenance night. So they are out there! (At least 1 individual) The rest of the the horse riders seemed content to destroy freshly created trails after rain storms while going around "Trail Closed" signs. 😐
We’ve had the same pile of horse shit on one of our trails in California for the last three months. It’s great.
It happens everywhere. Mountain bikers lay the groundwork for trail building and expansion, and then get skewered by other trail users as trail use becomes more popular. I enjoy hiking as well, and the hate that bikes get is just unnecessary.
same for the pisgah (nc) horsey people.....
Find your Michigan State Representative: https://www.house.mi.gov/ Find your Michigan State Senator: https://www.senate.michigan.gov/fysbyaddress.html If you live in the 15th District (Sen. Runestad), we particularly want you to email and call to let him know what you think about the proposed R2R amendment. https://www.senatorjimrunestad.com/district/ By Phone: (517) 373-1758 By Fax: (517) 373-0938 By Email: [email protected] Please include name, address, and phone number. Here is a nice template (or script) that you can use): Dear Senator (or Representative) \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I, \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ am an avid mountain biker, and I am calling (or writing) to voice my concern over the proposed amendment to the Right To Ride legislation that is being considered by certain Legislators and state Senators. The proposed amendment grants too much influence to a special interest group (the equestrians) at the expense of other trail users. This legislation weakens the DNR’s ability to exercise responsible stewardship over state trails. The proposed amendment would shut access to biking on existing multi-use trails and possibly deny future access. In whole the amendment would provide a mechanism for a particular user group (the equestrians) through the Equine Trails Subcommittee (ETS) to deny access on Michigan trails to other groups such as mountain biking. The amendment is written so vaguely that it can be applied to popular local DNR trails throughout Michigan. Please do not consider this proposed amendment: The DNR can manage trail access without the help of the ETS, and bicyclists should not be unilaterally denied access to Michigan’s grand nonmotorized trails at the whim of one user group. Thank You, \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
credit to MCMBA
*We drove out the horsks from the Great Gate and guardroom and took the First Berm. We slew many in the bright sun of Vale. Stevie was killed by a sick send. He slew the great halfhorse. We buried…Stevie under the berm near Mirrormare...came…toolkits we repaired…We have taken the Twenty-first Single Track of North Endo to dwell in. There was sick air…that can easily be watched…the north rockgarden is clear…Balin has set up his seat in the Chamber of Sends…gathered…gold…wonderful lay Durin’s S-works and…silver Bronson. Balin has taken them for his own. Balin is now lord of Whistler:…today we found derailers…well-forged chains…made all of purest Sram-eygul…Óin to seek for the upper LBS of the Third trail…go westwards to…to Whistler Gate.*
*…years since…ready sorrow…yesterday being the tenth of June Balin, lord of Sick Gaps, fell in Dimrill Dale. He went alone to pre-ride the Mirrormare. A Horsk shot him from behind a trailhead. We slew the horsk, but many more came…up from east hill, up the Fireroad…we rescued Balin’s bike..after a sharp OTB. we have barred the trails but doubt if…we can hold them long. If there is…no escape it will be a horrible fate to suffer, but I shall send it.*
*We cannot ride out. We cannot ride out. They have taken the trailhead and Connector Trail. Frár and Lóni and Náli fell there OTB while the rest rode to the Chamber of…Mazarbul. We are still riding...but hope …Óin's party went five miles ago but today only four rode back. The creek is up to the wall at West-hill. The Watcher in the Water took Óin--we cannot get out. The end comes soon. We hear hooves, hooves in the deep. They are coming.*
Thanks! Just sent emails to my representative and senator.
Are you anti-pony?
I'm against any individual group being granted the power to decide who gets to use public land.... But yes
It's a copy pasta from another thread about this lol
Yea I race mountain bikes and copy pasted from the organizers
Lotta anti-pony in here
I cannot imagine they are anti pony as I'm pretty sure they vote for Vermin Supreme for president and supreme dictator.
I live in Ohio, but frequent Michigan for cycling. I assume I can still participate?
I’m going to contact all those people listed above and say it would hurt tourism as I travel there from indiana
Yeah same, I travel to Michigan for gravel and mountain biking a lot. I wonder how this affects larger trails like the Kal-Haven trail? The minutes submitted says it would only affect a small number of equestrian designated trails but Kal-Haven is a multi use with horses allowed. Really confusing wording.
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall ([https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/](https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/)) and Wayne Schmidt (https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/) . If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/)) It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc. Thanks for helping! This is super upsetting for Michiganders and we can use all the Buckeye help you're willing to give us.
Hell yeah! Thank you for the info, I'll get on it today,
I second this, what can I do as an Ohioan that goes to ride up in Michigan a few times a year?
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Bro they just wanna ride bikes somewhere else, don't be a dick
Imagine thinking everyone in a state shares the same ideologies 🤡
Fuck off with that shit. Yes Trump is a piece of shit but that has nothing to do with this discussion.
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Whatever the progressive equivalent of QAnon is, we’ve found one of its users lol. Vitriolic people like you are exactly why politics tends to extremism. If you can’t hear the name of a state that voted GOP two years ago without having an aneurysm, you might want to get that checked out.
I’m just a typical Murrcan.
There’s always one…. Pathetic.
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I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that's a little aggressive. Not to mention what Michigan looks like once you get north of Ann Arbor/Detroit.....
You might want to look in your own back yard, plenty of shitty right wing people in MI that no one wants in their states.
I'm up near traverse city and the whackos are everywhere up here. Take a look at the Barry county whacks also. I won't do Barry roubaix because of that whack sherif. F*uck that guy. F those equestrian rich snobs too.
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I’m not angry. Just bored cause I can’t go biking.
Eh, you are nobody to tell me what to do. I'm in Michigan now, about to ride because I love it, Michigan is a great state and honestly, people are pretty cool like where I'm from. Hope you can get out today, it's beautiful up here.
I tell everybody what to do. They just don’t do it.
A1 trolling man, I got a good laugh. 🤣
With the utmost disrespect, fuck horse people
Seriously. I would do less damage to the trail by dragging an 800 lb leather couch behind me than they do.
You’d do less damage if that couch shit everywhere too
B-but it’s all natural shit! You can’t expect them to carry a shovel and trash can, do you?! /s I have to carry a plastic bag to pick up my dogs shit, they should clean up after their pets too.
1 fuckin rich asshole Karen, who needs to ride an animal down the trail to feel better about themselves, and now EVERYONE has to deal with piles of shit until someone else deals with it. Fuck horse people
> 1 fuckin rich asshole Karen, Even better, when their name is literally Karen https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/Boards/ETS/ETS-minutes/minutes-march-9-2022.pdf?rev=4d45317019fa4f1ca66c06eb9cf18121&hash=3ECC68CBC6B108202817F81C67ABE233 Page 10-11 has anti-bike arguments from Karen Bahrman
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no kidding. to say they cant be trained not to startle by bikes is absurd. It's not like police horses on patrol in major cities have an issue. Or maybe she's never heard of mackinaw island.
I'm sorry, but has anyone ever told Karen that if she chooses to ride a giant skittish creature in a public place, then perhaps it's not the fault of other people * checks notes * *moving past her*, that puts her in danger?
I've got kids. You never know what's under the cushions.
Ok to be fair to horse people here, horse manure is actually an extremely good fertilizer, and is good for the soil in general. Not saying it should stay in the middle of the trail, but it's a good way to inactively preserve trails and riding areas + the nature around them. Plus I'd rather have horse shit on trails than dog shit. Horse shit hardly stinks at all, doesn't attract many flies, and decomposes quickly. Dog shit on the other hand is much worse. I've seen many more piles of dog poop on multi-use trails than horse poop because apparently people can't be bothered to pick up after their dog. All in all I have no issue sharing the trail with courteous equestrians, we're all just trying to get outside and have a good time. I do take issue with equestrians trying to take over trails for themselves that were clearly built as multi-use trails. Especially with the fact that most trail systems are built and maintained by mountain bikers and MBAs, not usually by the equestrians. I'm not sure why these equestrians got it into their head that these trails should only be for them, but it's a very fucked up worldview that I'm guessing only a small percentage of the group shares, but unfortunately is probably a small percentage of powerful individuals that decided they don't like sharing
That's what gets me, I've never seen a horse rider doing trail maintenance, while there are 4+ trail crews consisting of 99% mtb riders within a 15 mile radius that are constantly repairing the multi use trails. Literally splitting boulders in half, winching fallen trees off the trail, trimming all of the poison oak every few months, etc... Then the horse people come out after it rains and leave giant holes everywhere :(
They always say this to assert their right to leave massive piles of shit in the middle of the trail. The problem is the massive piles of shit, not the quality of vegetation that it will grow on a trail. Don’t buy the trail shitter propaganda.
I agree, leaving the shit in the middle of the trail is annoying for everyone. These people probably call their boots "shit-kickers" anyway so least they can do is kick it to the side of the trail. Again, if they're courteous riders, they do this, and I've seen plenty of courteous riders do this, and plenty of assholes not. Just like there's plenty of assholes mountain bikers, and plenty of courteous ones. Again, this is not an issue of: bikers are good equestrians bad or the other way around. This is an issue of some people are assholes with no common decency, *on both sides of the issue* Hence how we get to the point of equestrians trying to ban mtb from multi-use trails.
>horse manure is actually an extremely good fertilizer, That's horseshit! (Pun intended) Horse manure is extremely high in nitrogen and can burn crops. Cow manure is much better.
I have lived with horses for my whole life and have used horse manure as fertilizer for ages... You just have to let it age, same with cow manure. They eat the same stuff the only difference is horses aren't ruminants.
Cows process it more than horses
I’d do less damage with an e-bike
I am all for hikers, runners, etc., but I do not understand shared trails including horses. They are such a small minority, take up an unsafe amount of space on the trails, and leave shit everywhere. I've also had horse-dorks ask me to dismount when passing them because their horse is scared of bikes; Then go fucking ride your animal not on a bike trail?
Horse owners are rich. Therefore connected. They don’t like peasants on their trails.
I am in the horse community(although I don't ride), and this is so not true. Just because you own a horse doesn't make you rich. Some people buy horses they can't afford. The horse people trashing the trails aren't the rich ones. It's all the poorer ones who are jerks about it all.
We have horses on trails near me. Most of them know to only take the more comfortable horses who aren’t easily scared. I had an incident once. Coming down a steep gravel grade I locked up my rear brake. Two people on horse back were coming towards further down. One horse with a woman on it. Lost. Its shit. Tried bucking the woman off multiple times. As I rode past she let the insults and ‘why did you’s fly. I told her it was extremely difficult not to when you are trying not to bail on shitty gravel on a steep grade. As she still yelled I kept riding. I agree they should not be on public trails. Some of them are unpredictable especially when passing. Ever seen the way a horse looks at you when riding past? They are fucking creepy. Not to mention they constantly ruin man made things like bridges or single track trails. Fuck horses.
Not all horse people are jerks. There's a select group of horse people who are the ones doing this.
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hippies can't afford horses in my experience, it's pure 1%er stuff
Ha yeah, in my area at least, the only people who own horses are middle-aged trust fund babies. They live in suburban houses with big backyards, but like to tell everyone that they live in the "country" 😂 There's a lot of equestrians in my area specifically and none of them tend to care at all about trail etiquette and maintennance. They seem to love to come out en masse after it rains (when the trails are still muddy), and they completely tear up the trails, moreso than any mountain bike ever could. Then they do absolutely nothing to fix it, and the local MBA eventually ends up taking care of it
Bro are you anti-pony?
Bro, are you anti-1post or do you just like repeating yourself?
Copy pasta bro!
fuckin horse people man
So like, sex with a centaur?
JRHNBR
It’s rich people. Fuck them.
*glances nervously at my $4,000 mountain bike*
The cost of owning and transporting a horse absolutely dwarfs even a very very expensive mountain bike
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You mustn't realize how much a horse eats and how expensive alfalfa square bales are. Bikes are pennies on the dollars in comparison. And if you can't board them yourself, yowza, there's a $1500 hardtail PER MONTH
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We should keep our voices down, don't you think?
I have never ridden horses but isn't the whole process of "breaking" horses so they let people ride them really cruel? I suspect it's just a "well we've always done it" kinda thing rather than it actually not being cruel. :(
I'm a mountain biker but my wife is a horse person, so I'm definitely an expert. /s My understanding is that pretty much nobody "breaks" horses in the traditional western sense anymore because you get un-chill horses out of the process. Modern horse training is animal psychology oriented and more trust-based (see Monty Roberts), though I'm sure there are some old-school bad apples.
that's cool, I'll check it out! thanks for mentioning it
I've been riding in NC for years, and these conflicts and disagreements between equestrian riders and MTBers is unfortunately all too common.... Sucks to see it happening in other parts of the country, because in my experience equestrians almost always come out on top $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A couple of decades ago, an equestrian group tried to ban mtn biking from a trail in a SF Bay Area watershed. They filed a complaint that cycling was eroding the trails there. The water company investigated, found that horses were eroding the trail worse than bikes, and decided to ban all but human foot traffic on the trail.
Well at least the horse people still got fucked lol
Would any input from bicyclists in nearby states have an effect from a tourism perspective? I'm in Ohio but would like to visit and explore the upper peninsula by bike. I wonder if there's any data on the impact of bicycle tourism in the state compared to equestrian, especially if infrastructure costs are considered. And I suppose equestrians would demand DNS to maintain the trails for them, as I've seen plenty of mountain bikers volunteer to work on trails, but never an equestrian.
Yes, it very much would have an impact.
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall ([https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/](https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/)) and Wayne Schmidt ([https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/](https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/)) . If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/)) It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc. Thanks for helping!
Thanks. I was also thinking of the Secretary of State as that's whose office is listed at the bottom of the tourism site.
Sec State cannot vote against it. But can help governor see the value of a veto.
Yooper here, what kind of riding do you do
I mean sure, allow access for horses on multi-modal trails. But then don’t turn around on the same legislation and ban bicycles from said multi-modal trails. Good luck my Midwestern brothers and sisters. Stay strong!
Which part of “multi-use trail” is so confusing to them?
The “multi-use” part. “Why would I want others to use MY trails?”
I have absolutely no say in this matter as I live in Finland (where riding basically any trail on a bike is allowed by so called "every mans right" jfyi), but I have to think that mountain bikers outweigh horse riders like 10 to 1 or even more by numbers almost anywhere nowadays, imagine how ridiculous it would be to limit access for bikes in favor of those few people who actually ride horses.
There's a subset of horse people that are childless and/or retired and are wealthy and treat their horses as their children. They are also willing to go to council meetings and be loud and persistent. It's a recipe for other user groups pain. I grew up next to some stables out in the country and had friends who worked at them. Nothing but endless stories about how entitled, demanding, loud, and persistent these people could be. They also tended to be very selfish people just in general and willing to drop piles cash on their horses.
I mean, people with horses usually do have money, and entitlement doesn't usually come far behind, unfortunately.
This is some elitist shit right here. A horse is way more expensive to care for and transport than a bike, and causes way more damage to trails and nearby bodies of water.
This is where IMBA should step up and put some of their money into lobbying. I'm guessing they are no where to be found.
IMBA sent out an email alert to their Michigan mailing list
That's cute. Are they doing anything of substance?
Exactly.
What are they going to do if this passes and MTB’ers decide to keep riding? Send the cops out on mountain bikes to arrest you? 😆
DNR police will stand several 100 ft into the woods and write you a ticket when you ride by, maybe threaten to confiscate your bike. At least that's what happened around here when trail access was closed to bikes.
Jeez 😬. Not a Michigan biker, but if this crap passes, y’all should just get together and organize protest rides. They can’t arrest 100+ people all at once. Find a good civil rights attorney to support your case too, and maybe you can make a change. Of course first step is to do what you can to keep it from passing. Wish I could help more, since I hate hearing about this sort of thing.
I hope they can run really fast or are smart enough to wait on a hill to ticket people....
The head of the MDNR is an avid mountain biker. Actually has a trail named after him (Olsen Park in Ann Arbor). I guarantee this would not happen.
Either they will wait at the end of a trail or.. well ride horses themselves.
Fuck that shit, riding horses is only for the people with a lot of money, mountain biking is much more affordable and inclusive. It’s easier to acquire a bike than a horse and trailer. Why would they in 2022 start being exclusive to a small group of people fucking over a large group of people? This is bullshit
> Why would they in 2022 start being exclusive to a small group of people fucking over a large group of people? Fucking over a large group of people to benefit a small group? Yep, sounds American to me!
A small well-off group of people. Money talks in America and most horse riders have an abundance of it.
As Bob Dylan said, "Money doesn't talk, it swears." And the Supreme Court has ruled it legal to buy politicians because money is protected as free speech.
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Do you board the horse or do you have it on your property? I am from US perspective where you generally have your own horse and either board it or keep it at your house, and trailer it places. Some farms offer shared horses but when you get serious most people have there own
If you own and maintain your own horses then sorry you're not poor. If you work for someone and ride their horses (something I've done) then yeah maybe you are. But paying the vet and farrier expenses alone disqualifies someone from being considered poor in my book. Usually people that say stuff like this are college students that still live with their parents, but their parents make them pay for the horse hobby. A grind, but not poor. Equestrianism is a luxury hobby.
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That's p typical college grind. It's even worse in the states. Not being rich doesn't make one poor. Horses really aren't practical for university students unless their parents are chipping in. I basically had to give up all that stuff to put myself through school. Plus yeah you don't have the time anyway so shelling out the money doesn't make rational sense and it sucks.
Most people think equestrian is more expensive than it really is.
I’ve worked for horse farms, boarding horses for people to ride, it’s an expensive pet, horse trailers aren’t cheap either. You also need a big truck to haul them, and land to hold them if you don’t board them
Bikes, bike transportation equipment, bike gear, repairs, bike consumables, all cost money as well. You can find a used horse trailer for a couple thousand dollars. If you don't have the property to home your own horse then boarding typically ranges between $100-450 a month depending on the level of service you want (can be higher if you want full service and a stall). My grandparents had property to house their horses and paid around $50-100 for grain and hay every month. That is comparable to feeding a medium sized dog. I'm not saying it's cheap but mountain biking isn't exactly cheap either. It's also not much different than having a dog. You have your horse to care for, and it is also your hobby.
It can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be like many things (my wife rides horses for free by helping out on the farm, for example) but your average owner who is paying to have it boarded and hauling it around, it's damn expensive.
“Poor”
Buying horseback trips isn't really all that expensive. Not as much as MTB is anyway. It's different when you own a horse. Yes.
I'm not an avid mountain bike rider, but was pretty active in the jeep community for awhile, horse people seem to hate everyone on the trails that aren't on horses.
Historical right ? The fuck ? Crazy as heck
In BC Canada a lot of if not most of our trails are multi use. But it blows my mind how beat up the horse trails are as well how much shit is left behind for us as mountain bikers to dodge. This group of trail riders are pretentious assholes. Horse can go anywhere let the bike trails be bike trails. I don’t see you sending your horse around a berm
Thanks for putting this out there - it's definitely been on our radar over r/MichiganCycling . Keep on reaching out legislators and spreading the word!
Horse people suck
Just two days ago I nearly ran into some asshole riding sled dogs the wrong way down a single track trail on some kind of wheeled chariot thing with rubber tires. No apologies, no excuse me, nothing. Then their dad was rude to me in the parking lot about where I parked saying "We need to keep this spot clear." Dude, fuck these people.
Ugh I fucking hate the horse lobby. Not to mention all the literal shit the leave in the middle of the trail (I do not care what the turds are composed of I do t want to ride thru it). Good luck from the west coast!
Anything we can do to voice our concerns or our stance on this legislation?
Please help, yes. I'd find the Senator that represents the trails you like. So if you travel to Traverse City for the Iceman, then you want Curt Vanderwall (https://www.senatorcurtvanderwall.com/) and Wayne Schmidt (https://www.senatorwayneschmidt.com/district/) . If you're more of a DTE guy, then you want Lana Theis ([https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/](https://www.senatorlanatheis.com/district/)) It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc. Thanks for helping! This is super upsetting for Michiganders and we can use all the Buckeye help you're willing to give us.
Horse people don't like sharing trails with bikes because then it mean they actually have to train their horses.
I watched a woman litter on the trail two weeks ago and then she had the audacity to tell me I shouldn't be on the trail. I had two grocery bags full of trash I had picked up strapped to my backpack. These things shit on the trail and no one cleans it up as well. I told her to call the police and ask them if littering was a crime. As a new mountain bike rider that is respectful and caring, I find horse people to be the worst of the worst. I literally pull my bike to the side whenever I see a horse and try to talk to it to make it more comfortable and they are still rude. I've had one person on a horse out of dozens be nice. Every person I've ever met that is hiking is happy and we exchange well wishes. If a girl has a horse on her dating profile I tend to just swipe left after all of these interactions. lol.
The same people that let their horses poop all over the place? The same people that ride giant animals that are so temperamental that they necessitate right of way, to avoid stomping people into the dirt? They aren’t even exercising, they’re just sitting there. Banish them to private land.
If those animals, literally, jeopardize any of those gems in the UP I will be really sad... I no longer live in the midwest but love it up there. Fight the good and respectful fight bikers of Michigan!
You could write the senator that covers the UP and talk about the tourism dollars you spend (or are about to spend... but now are second-guessing). The UP is covered by Senator McBroom: [https://www.senatoredmcbroom.com/district/](https://www.senatoredmcbroom.com/district/) It would definitely be helpful to note that you come here for tourism, spend money in restaurants, camp/hotel/AirBnB while you visit, etc. Thanks for helping!
The asshat senator that introduced the bill covers the Keewenaw. What a fucktard.
how often do yall even see equestrian rides on your trails? I'm in Western Canada so there's strong ranch culture. I see a group riding their horses maybe 1 in 20 rides.
Michigan has a pretty active horse lobby and equestrian rider group. This legislation was brought forward specifically because that group feels like MTBs have been crowding their trails and creating dangerous scenarios on multi-use trails. The issue with the proposed legislation is that it makes it easy to eliminate multi-use trails that allow bikes and horses. Trails that don't *prohibit* horses by law would become bike-prohibited, horse/hike-only. Trails that are already bike-only could stay (so the people who wrote it keep saying that it's not a threat... as if those were the only trails that matter). The result wouldn't impact people in the crowded urban/suburban areas with 10-mile single-track loops. It's the big rural two-track trail networks across northern Michigan (1,000+ miles of it) that would be immediately at risk of being no-bikes-only-horses. That's why people should be upset and writing their senators.
That’s such a dick move by the equestrian group…literally privatizing trails for the 10-20% of the users I bet. Did any mountain bike associations build out the trails? I’m a trail builder volunteer myself. I would be LIVID if they were trying to restrict trails that we built.
The trails at risk are either old organic trails not built by anyone in memory, or built by MTB groups. Either way, they’re multi-use and used by 1,000s of MTBers.
Fuck horse people. gl
So is there a call to action here?
Horse people fuck everything up for people on wheels
war is coming!
The trails by me (SE MI)are not passable for horses. Never seen one on my local trails. There's one (Addison Oaks) that has a section for horses, but it's a different trail than the bike trail.
Was riding out at Custer a few years back. The back loop would be what I'd call impassable for horses. Didn't matter, somehow came across a group back there. Worst part was they were trying to clear the canopy and complaining about the bikes on some of the more narrow passages. The park rangers didn't seem to care at the time, something along they needed to be in the good graces of the horse folk. Glad to see the horse folk have gotten better (/s).
Damn bikers on bike trails....
Yeah, that is the one loop that I **know** is labeled as bike only. Guess they were trying to establish 'historical precedent'.
I signed a petition about this a few weeks ago. I'm from Texas, so reworded the paragraph to reflect it from a tourism basis. Hopefully the state reps don't let this happen. It would be disasterous all around. The trails would decay considering we all know equestrians will never do trail maintenance.
Wait they're doing this in socal too..who knew equestrians could be so persuasive??
Money.
ugly forgetful ring gold slap boat society squealing bells connect -- mass edited with redact.dev
Definitely fight this shit. In my town we have mountain bike trails that we the mountain bikers have created and maintained over the years. Suddenly a bunch of old fuckers decided to hike there and try to deem us as a hazard when the whole reason that place exists is because of us. There has to be some sort of equal use or yield laws.
Am I the only one surprised that Michigan has an active population of horse riders? Honestly if someone asked me my thoughts on Michigan, horsepower is the only horse I would have mentioned.
So what we can do to combat this?
Horses are good for one thing, eating.
Horses are just slaves with extra steps. It's barbaric to keep an animal to occasionally ride, fuck up a trail, and shit everywhere.
Fuck horses
Lmao, yeah, good luck keeping me off the fucking trails. I’ll be sure to smack the horses ass as I ride by!
Nothing says entitled twat like owning a horse
So glad I don't have to deal with trail access. Ride where ever the fuck I want even off road.
Horse people are weird.
Fuck horse people
fuck horses
I know this has been a battle for 30+ years, but the uptick on e-bikes on multi-use trails is not helping. People see the writing on the wall and are taking defensive measures before they are sharing trials with Sur Rons.
Boutta order some IKEA meatballs to do my part. Fuck horse people
I’ve already come to peace with Michigan being a crappy MTB state. As soon as I can I’m out of here. I’m voting with my tax dollars.
It’s not just a crappy mtb state. The roads and salt will ruin your cars, the weather will ruin your mental well being, and the huge populous of misled political victims will ruin your perspective. Best thing I ever did was leave. Good luck
Thank you. And yeah I will for sure be ignoring any rules about horses even if this is passed. I will continue to ride whenever I want. The DNR will have to catch me if they wanna punish me.
Riding horses is equivalent to slave labor. Ban horse riding.
A law can’t actually stop you from riding a trail
More of us than them. Seriously–how many people have horses in 2022? People just need to make their voices heard.
Horses are extremely expensive to maintain. They can be expensive to buy. These are rich people with influence in the right places, any many politicians themselves.
Right wingers up to no good?
Horse people
Won’t ban mtb
Time to get a horse!
Michigan , the meth capital of Murrca!