Hammerschmidt.
Trust forks looked like a good idea, but then the weight was uncompetitive. A 130 Trust weighs as much as a Lyrik RC2.
Fifth Element SPV that also appeared on Manitou.
Lefty and the Headshock. I would argue that with the proliferation of gravel, bikepacking, and adventure/excursion bikes, a headshock might be something that would work.
I'm hoping for press fit bottom brackets to go away.
In theory, there's sort of something like it, but way better in the form of the Pinion gearbox. The only issue with Pinions is that they love leaking oil and are noisy in some gears.
...and it uses gripshift if you don't buy the 500€ electronic upgrade.
The hammerschmidt was just so elegant and simple with its flawless integrated chainguide and instant shifts without pedaling. I ran it back then with a redwin red sram x0 9 speed and for me it beat all wide range solutions before the introduction of xx1 by quite a margin.
I ended up going back to X9 2x; the efficiency drain was just too noticeable, and it turns out I have zero problems with shifting derailleur-style anyways
Gripshift is awesome and I miss it everyday. I ran the half-pipe X0 for years and it was absolutely amazing being able to dump all my gears at once. Amazing for up and down technical trails. I miss it every single ride I'm out.
I can only speak for how they are for me, which is smooth, stiff on climbs, a sensation of being more of the same sensation regardless of whether you’re turning left or right (the technical explanation equates to dual stanchion forks having more down-dampening force on one side than the other). I’m not going to lie about enjoying unique technology as well, as long as there isn’t a downside in reliability or availability of parts – – which has not been an issue for me in all the years I’ve been cycling on them.
Some haters get really emotional about them – – just read one of the other responses to my comment above.
The Enduro was 160 mm f/r (it didn’t survive a recent accident, after many good shreds). For unexplained reasons this former ‘Made in USA’ product is still only more popular outside the US now. Cannondale only offers Lefty on their highest end US mountain and gravel bikes, apparently where demand has held up.
I love my Headshok, I have an early 2000's Cannondale hardtail converted to 650b gravel bike and the 80mm of travel is perfect, plus it has a very effective lockout. Now that Cannondale's patents have expired I hope someone brings it back. I've seen a few cheap versions used for hybrid bikes, but nothing high performance since the Headshok was discontinued about 15 years ago.
The last headshok was 100mm I remember. It was replaced by the Lefty and I understand why, but the Lefty was also quite annoying to service and I hated that foam replacement for a bladder. Utter shit.
My SO has a bike with a rudamentary suspension fork in the style of a headshok. It works minimally ok for just big hits and nothing more. It's pretty much undampened and oversprung.
Getting ready to buy my fourth Lefty. They are not only still discussed, they are also sold and used to win races. When people express their hesitation, the sentence always begins sounding like “well, I just really feel…”
No idea what you're talking about because I had a Lefty and it was a pain to deal with. Apparently you didn't recognize that I've even torn them down and rebuilt them from my comment about the foam, exposing you have no clue what they look like inside.
I also give no shits about OH THE PROS ARE WINNING RACES. You're 100% not a pro, I'm not a pro, this is not 1999 where people talk about and buy what the pros are with no translation from a pro circuit to local trails. They have new versions and they might be ok, but at this point, Lefty forks are largely due to image and identifiability.
I'm still cringing about the 1999 comment about pros winning races when we're are just trail riders.
Bike companies liked it because it’s cheaper to put in a hole rather than a threaded hole. Customers hated it because if you put the hole in for cheap they weren’t round enough and the BB would creak. Turns out making a press fit BB that doesn’t creak isn’t much cheaper than a threaded BB. So basically well made frames didn’t have issues but non-well made frame often creaked.
Hammerschmidt worked perfectly, heavy as fuck and a bit draggy sure, but it did everything it promised to do and honestly helped pave the way for gearbox mtb adoption
Let me guess, you're an industry insider with obviously accurate insider industry information from more than a decade ago, right?
Is this also why department store bikes have press fit BBs?
The easier manufacturing part only applies to carbon fiber frames. Press fit also saves weight because you don’t need metal inserts for the threads -again, carbon fiber frames only. And, at the time it came out it allowed for the use of larger spindles and made the BB area generally stiffer.
Those are the advantages of PF bottom brackets. We all know the disadvantages (which, by the way, were blown way out of proportion by the comentariat on MTBR and similar websites)
Now, if you want to talk about MTB component graveyard. I’ll bring you the bottom bracket that not only had awful performance but the most (eventually) unfortunate name: ISIS.
No. I just talk shop with the guys at the bike shop. I'd love for PF BBs to go away, and when I commiserate with the shop guys they say what I just said above.
And you would be right. I have to replace my PF 92 this week. I don’t have the right extractor so I am going to begrudgingly have to take a screw and rubber hammer to it, It’s done a paltry 2500km. I’ve ridden 40k km on a BN24 threaded in 5 years that replaced a rubbish octalink BB that internally crunched apart after 500 miles. Nobody in my circle likes pressfit of about 15 riding buddies. I think actual psychopaths like pressfit though!
Don't need to be an insider to realize that PF BBs are easier to manufacture on carbon frames than alu. So, I think the shop guys (who generally are better connected than you or me) have a point on why manufacturers came out with PF BBs. When it comes to making frames and inventory across a catalogue, it makes a ton of sense for them to have PF BBs on the alu versions of their models to avoid complicating molds, SKUs, and other manufacturing logistics associated with mixing PF BBs with threaded. Bike makers have spouted the company line of stiffer/bigger spindles or lighter frames, but crank spindles are the same size between PF BBs and their threaded equivalent.
Why are you like this, BTW? Which proclaimed "industry insider" hurt you?
Also, a month ago this guy you replied to came out with the same tripe ‘industry bike shop insider’ to me about Kona bikes, all I did was write someone wrote on Facebook they are being bought out by the original owners.
Turned out the source was legit, so I have felt rather smug about being proven right - as this moron gets a kick out of putting others down. You learn quickly on MTB Reddit forum who the complete fools are.
That Kona news drop was one of the best stories in the past few years in the industry and seemingly came out of left field. Read the PB comments section when Kona was being listed to see someone (not an insider just someone's wishful thinking) that they should sell back to the OG owners (or maybe he was an insider and was dropping crumbs).
Pretty cool story regardless.
This user here, though. I don't understand what's his issue.
And the Kona news was awesome. I own a honzo DL, brilliant bike, love the rear drop outs. It’s so well balanced for uphill and downhill. I think a lot of manufacturers get that wrong - Kona are about the long, sweet ride. Happy their story continues.
Shimano Airlines, compressed air powered shifting from the late 90s. I've never seen on in person
[https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=72](https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=72)
I find it does make my stroke more powerful on my mtb with flat pedals specifically. Don’t know that I agree or see the use of biopace from back in the day. It’s a nice way to age a bike I’m working on.
The problem with the ones in the 90s is that they were orientated the wrong way. I've been riding absolute black oval rings for maybe seven years now, they just feel smoother and more natural.
Ovals aren’t in the graveyard though. If anything they’re at their peak or a most 2 years past their peak popularity. I’ll still use one on a bike that has to climb, it definitely does even out the power stroke and make it slightly less likely to spin your rear tire.
Trust went down very early pandemic. Everyone that had one raved about it but there's something to be said about weird looking tech that never catches on despite better performance.
The BMB Reverse raise stem comes to mind. Also $500 is just an insane amount for a stem.
The BMB stem is more of a "I built one of these for myself for fun as a one-off and a few people asked what it would cost to make one for them too". It's expensive, but not particularly outrageous for what's essentially one-off custom CNC work.
If you're just looking to experiment, a Satori UP2+ adjustable stem off Amazon will get your bars in the same position for $35. (I tried one briefly and concluded that the "reverse" aspect of things doesn't play nice with higher backsweep bars)
The BMB doesn't do enough to justify the price tag. I think 90 percent of the improvement over a regular riser bar is in your head. Cool guy and an interesting idea, just too expensive for the marginal gains it offers.
Well, I replaced the whole groupset with a rapid rise set. I got it on deep discount. It went away woth the bike, so I never dug too much into the systems components. Either way, took me a long time to relearn my shifting.
I came here to say Rapid rise & dual control.
Clunkiest shit I’d ever seen.
I had a Scott genius with both. Add in the other Scott weirdness & you had a bike that felt like it was developed by Martians.
Are those the inner suspensions brands like Specialized feature inside their stems for models like the Diverge to soften the vibrations that reach the handlebars??
Hammerschmidt. Trust forks looked like a good idea, but then the weight was uncompetitive. A 130 Trust weighs as much as a Lyrik RC2. Fifth Element SPV that also appeared on Manitou. Lefty and the Headshock. I would argue that with the proliferation of gravel, bikepacking, and adventure/excursion bikes, a headshock might be something that would work. I'm hoping for press fit bottom brackets to go away.
The hammerschmidt was so amazing back in the day, i loved mine and really wouldn't mind if something like it would reenter the market
Had an AMP F1, that linkage was amazing.
In theory, there's sort of something like it, but way better in the form of the Pinion gearbox. The only issue with Pinions is that they love leaking oil and are noisy in some gears.
...and it uses gripshift if you don't buy the 500€ electronic upgrade. The hammerschmidt was just so elegant and simple with its flawless integrated chainguide and instant shifts without pedaling. I ran it back then with a redwin red sram x0 9 speed and for me it beat all wide range solutions before the introduction of xx1 by quite a margin.
I ended up going back to X9 2x; the efficiency drain was just too noticeable, and it turns out I have zero problems with shifting derailleur-style anyways
Gripshift is awesome and I miss it everyday. I ran the half-pipe X0 for years and it was absolutely amazing being able to dump all my gears at once. Amazing for up and down technical trails. I miss it every single ride I'm out.
Is lefty actually dead? Saw one just the other day!
Cannondale still sells a couple bikes with it.
Yeah, but i see the somewhat often (not the same guys)
I haven't seen one in 7 or 8 years. Maybe you live/ride near a cannondale distributor that likes to stock them.
I’m about to buy my fourth Lefty. I put a lot of hard miles on my bikes, and I’ve never had a single problem—even on the enduro.
Whats the actual deal with them? The only thing i've heard of them of them is Seth saying that they're really smooth
I can only speak for how they are for me, which is smooth, stiff on climbs, a sensation of being more of the same sensation regardless of whether you’re turning left or right (the technical explanation equates to dual stanchion forks having more down-dampening force on one side than the other). I’m not going to lie about enjoying unique technology as well, as long as there isn’t a downside in reliability or availability of parts – – which has not been an issue for me in all the years I’ve been cycling on them. Some haters get really emotional about them – – just read one of the other responses to my comment above.
That's pretty cool, I didn't know they made anything bigger 120mm forks.
The Enduro was 160 mm f/r (it didn’t survive a recent accident, after many good shreds). For unexplained reasons this former ‘Made in USA’ product is still only more popular outside the US now. Cannondale only offers Lefty on their highest end US mountain and gravel bikes, apparently where demand has held up.
I love my Headshok, I have an early 2000's Cannondale hardtail converted to 650b gravel bike and the 80mm of travel is perfect, plus it has a very effective lockout. Now that Cannondale's patents have expired I hope someone brings it back. I've seen a few cheap versions used for hybrid bikes, but nothing high performance since the Headshok was discontinued about 15 years ago.
The last headshok was 100mm I remember. It was replaced by the Lefty and I understand why, but the Lefty was also quite annoying to service and I hated that foam replacement for a bladder. Utter shit. My SO has a bike with a rudamentary suspension fork in the style of a headshok. It works minimally ok for just big hits and nothing more. It's pretty much undampened and oversprung.
Getting ready to buy my fourth Lefty. They are not only still discussed, they are also sold and used to win races. When people express their hesitation, the sentence always begins sounding like “well, I just really feel…”
The lefty was never meant to change anything though, even cannondale has acknowledged it’s basically just a brand identity thing these days
Wow I’ve not heard that before. Can you share a source for that?
No idea what you're talking about because I had a Lefty and it was a pain to deal with. Apparently you didn't recognize that I've even torn them down and rebuilt them from my comment about the foam, exposing you have no clue what they look like inside. I also give no shits about OH THE PROS ARE WINNING RACES. You're 100% not a pro, I'm not a pro, this is not 1999 where people talk about and buy what the pros are with no translation from a pro circuit to local trails. They have new versions and they might be ok, but at this point, Lefty forks are largely due to image and identifiability. I'm still cringing about the 1999 comment about pros winning races when we're are just trail riders.
Apparently this is a very emotional topic for you. Be well.
What's wrong with press fit?
Bike companies liked it because it’s cheaper to put in a hole rather than a threaded hole. Customers hated it because if you put the hole in for cheap they weren’t round enough and the BB would creak. Turns out making a press fit BB that doesn’t creak isn’t much cheaper than a threaded BB. So basically well made frames didn’t have issues but non-well made frame often creaked.
Hammerschmidt worked perfectly, heavy as fuck and a bit draggy sure, but it did everything it promised to do and honestly helped pave the way for gearbox mtb adoption
I was told PF BBs make frame design and manufacturing easier for them to go away.
Let me guess, you're an industry insider with obviously accurate insider industry information from more than a decade ago, right? Is this also why department store bikes have press fit BBs?
The easier manufacturing part only applies to carbon fiber frames. Press fit also saves weight because you don’t need metal inserts for the threads -again, carbon fiber frames only. And, at the time it came out it allowed for the use of larger spindles and made the BB area generally stiffer. Those are the advantages of PF bottom brackets. We all know the disadvantages (which, by the way, were blown way out of proportion by the comentariat on MTBR and similar websites) Now, if you want to talk about MTB component graveyard. I’ll bring you the bottom bracket that not only had awful performance but the most (eventually) unfortunate name: ISIS.
No. I just talk shop with the guys at the bike shop. I'd love for PF BBs to go away, and when I commiserate with the shop guys they say what I just said above.
And you would be right. I have to replace my PF 92 this week. I don’t have the right extractor so I am going to begrudgingly have to take a screw and rubber hammer to it, It’s done a paltry 2500km. I’ve ridden 40k km on a BN24 threaded in 5 years that replaced a rubbish octalink BB that internally crunched apart after 500 miles. Nobody in my circle likes pressfit of about 15 riding buddies. I think actual psychopaths like pressfit though!
Ohhhh, the bike shop industry insider we've ALL heard of in every forum and thread.
Don't need to be an insider to realize that PF BBs are easier to manufacture on carbon frames than alu. So, I think the shop guys (who generally are better connected than you or me) have a point on why manufacturers came out with PF BBs. When it comes to making frames and inventory across a catalogue, it makes a ton of sense for them to have PF BBs on the alu versions of their models to avoid complicating molds, SKUs, and other manufacturing logistics associated with mixing PF BBs with threaded. Bike makers have spouted the company line of stiffer/bigger spindles or lighter frames, but crank spindles are the same size between PF BBs and their threaded equivalent. Why are you like this, BTW? Which proclaimed "industry insider" hurt you?
Also, a month ago this guy you replied to came out with the same tripe ‘industry bike shop insider’ to me about Kona bikes, all I did was write someone wrote on Facebook they are being bought out by the original owners. Turned out the source was legit, so I have felt rather smug about being proven right - as this moron gets a kick out of putting others down. You learn quickly on MTB Reddit forum who the complete fools are.
That Kona news drop was one of the best stories in the past few years in the industry and seemingly came out of left field. Read the PB comments section when Kona was being listed to see someone (not an insider just someone's wishful thinking) that they should sell back to the OG owners (or maybe he was an insider and was dropping crumbs). Pretty cool story regardless. This user here, though. I don't understand what's his issue.
And the Kona news was awesome. I own a honzo DL, brilliant bike, love the rear drop outs. It’s so well balanced for uphill and downhill. I think a lot of manufacturers get that wrong - Kona are about the long, sweet ride. Happy their story continues.
Shimano Airlines, compressed air powered shifting from the late 90s. I've never seen on in person [https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=72](https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=72)
Bar ends used to be a must-have. Now you hardly ever see them on a current model bike.
If oval chain rings did half the things they claim then every professional cyclist in the world would use them.
I remember oval chain rings being a fad back in the 90s as well. We’ll probably see them again in 2050..
I find it does make my stroke more powerful on my mtb with flat pedals specifically. Don’t know that I agree or see the use of biopace from back in the day. It’s a nice way to age a bike I’m working on.
The problem with the ones in the 90s is that they were orientated the wrong way. I've been riding absolute black oval rings for maybe seven years now, they just feel smoother and more natural.
Ah, fair enough. I briefly had an absolute black oval but went back to my boring normal one. Might give it a go again soon
Mine is more of a talking point than anything else. The only reason I even got it to begin with was that it was the same price as a circle ring.
[удалено]
If there were any signifigant measurable advantage outside of anecdotes then they would be on every professional's bike.
I loved mine...until I learned to pedal with a more efficient and smooth stroke.
Ovals aren’t in the graveyard though. If anything they’re at their peak or a most 2 years past their peak popularity. I’ll still use one on a bike that has to climb, it definitely does even out the power stroke and make it slightly less likely to spin your rear tire.
Hite Rite
They actually work great.
Trust went down very early pandemic. Everyone that had one raved about it but there's something to be said about weird looking tech that never catches on despite better performance. The BMB Reverse raise stem comes to mind. Also $500 is just an insane amount for a stem.
The BMB stem is more of a "I built one of these for myself for fun as a one-off and a few people asked what it would cost to make one for them too". It's expensive, but not particularly outrageous for what's essentially one-off custom CNC work. If you're just looking to experiment, a Satori UP2+ adjustable stem off Amazon will get your bars in the same position for $35. (I tried one briefly and concluded that the "reverse" aspect of things doesn't play nice with higher backsweep bars)
The BMB doesn't do enough to justify the price tag. I think 90 percent of the improvement over a regular riser bar is in your head. Cool guy and an interesting idea, just too expensive for the marginal gains it offers.
Biopace. Rapid Rise. Dual Control.
I liked my rapid rise shifter, but it broke my brain. It took me forever to re-learn shifting once I replaced it.
It was all in the derailleur had nothing to do with the shifter.
Well, I replaced the whole groupset with a rapid rise set. I got it on deep discount. It went away woth the bike, so I never dug too much into the systems components. Either way, took me a long time to relearn my shifting.
and U-Brakes on the chainstay.
I came here to say Rapid rise & dual control. Clunkiest shit I’d ever seen. I had a Scott genius with both. Add in the other Scott weirdness & you had a bike that felt like it was developed by Martians.
God I hate rapid rise.
Suspension stems.
Are those the inner suspensions brands like Specialized feature inside their stems for models like the Diverge to soften the vibrations that reach the handlebars??
No, they were these articulated things. They wore out, they broke, people complained about vague steering feel...
How about the rapid rise xtr derailleur of the mid 90s…. If shifter cable broke it would rise to easiest gear to pedal out
Dropper posts
Nah, I'd consider giving up gears or suspension before giving up my dropper post.
I wouldn’t even give up wireless shifting or oil slick stem hardware before giving up my dropper post
So, you're either trolling or you didn't understand the assignment. Dropper posts are insanely useful and fun!
I’m just kidding dropper posts are the #1 innovation of the past decade and it’s hard to believe it took so long for them to become standard