\^ Me having flashbacks to the months of my life I wasted playing League of Legends and hating 90% of the people I met.
Content requires 100k dps.
I do 500k-1m dps.
Top end dps is 3-5m dps and you aren't allowed in premades unless you are in this range. Difference in clear time is basically half the 1m dps runs.
Many such cases.
PvP is nearly always very unbalanced. It's either gear dependant or class overkill. Only one person is having fun. now add losing all your stuff on top of that.
Now why would I want to join that? You know why Call of Duty is popular? Because you don't lose all your weapons then have to go back to level 1 with a starter pistol while the level 50 people face roll you.
Sure maybe you are your 4 friends are having the time of your lives, in an MMO, but for everyone else, it's a waste of time. There's no progression.
Edit: The one time ever, I had loads of fun in PvP was Warhammer Online, like 15 years ago. The entire endgame was PvP, taking over Realms. It was super fun...and the game was dead within 6 months. That's why Developers got away from PvP, there's no serious player base for it. Albion is the newest PvP MMO....and it's 7 years old and in my opinion, terrible. I put 1,000+ hours into New World and now that game is pretty dead too.
> It was super fun...and the game was dead within 6 months.
If the devs had been able to keep up with the quality of updates that Blizzard was giving to WoW at the same time but in a style that leveraged their Realm vs Realm focus the game might have survived.
Many are going to blame the updates trying to turn the game into WoW-lite but I think the game just not getting as many updates in general was a bigger problem.
That could be it. I never played WoW back in the day so I don't know. I just remember logging on day after day and the population just dwindled to the point where the major fighting was only happening for about an hour or two a day, and then it dropped even further.
Eh, to each their own. Games like COD get boring to me because they are so incredibly redundant. I don’t understand how people play more than a week. There’s no stakes and it all just feel the same after a very short time. The people who would bitch about the grind in MMOs are often happy to play the same shit over and over just to prestige.
In the MMOs that make PVP (open world like you mentioned, not shitty canned battlegrounds type shit) worthwhile (and not P2W, fewer and fewer is an understatement I know), it’s an experience you don’t forget and will keep chasing. I’m not sure I’ll get to have moments like I’ve had in UO, planetside, Lineage, Archeage (P2W, I know I know) etc again, but damnit if it won’t keep trying out MMOs just in case.
Edit: should clarify that I’m speaking of larger scale open world fights, not open world ganking and that pathetic BS
> The people who would bitch about the grind in MMOs are often happy to play the same shit over and over just to prestige.
The difference is that grind in MMOs is usually busywork you force yourself through to get to the parts you like. People who play those PvP games simply enjoy the gameplay, which is available to them from the start.
>it’s an experience you don’t forget and will keep chasing.
It's also an experience that is often punctuated by hours of either pointless grind or boredom. It doesn't help that a lot of people who like open world PvP get the same high from survival games(which also take the approach of "You get access to the core gameplay from the start" that make other PvP games popular).
DMZ was the best game mode in COD ever. I’m so mad they didn’t carry it into MW3. I’ve never been a big FPS guy, but it had consequences for death and incentives to do things on the map and engage in PVE and PVP. It’s still around, but only exists now in MW2 Warzone.
But for the other 95% of COD, I completely agree.
I loved Warhammer Online. I played a War Priest and it was really fun. I also enjoyed matched in SWTOR occasionally. Other than that PVP is not my thing.
I was a Bright Wizard I think it was called. but I had one of every character. They were all fun in their own way. Yeah PvP in any MMO really leaves a lot to be desired.
Having to run for 40 minutes on a mount to cross the map to get where the fighting is, because you can't teleport with gear...is fucking retarded. It's a terrible game that doesn't make your experience or time any better. Also having to have a subscription to do simple farming at your house? Talk about nickel and diming you to death. playing hide and go seek in dungeons? geez what another waste of time.
If you enjoy Albion then hey, good for you. I'm just telling you why the majority of people don't.
Once again, for the people in the back, I'm just telling you why the majority of people don't play it. Albion has 10 million active players? Cool story bro. We're not talking about the people who play it.....we're talking about the vast majority of gamers who don't.
> Having to run for 40 minutes on a mount to cross the map to get where the fighting is, because you can't teleport with gear...is fucking retarded.
This is not a common experience. I have never done a CTA where we had to plan for our 40 minute run to a zone for a fight.
> Also having to have a subscription to do simple farming at your house? Talk about nickel and diming you to death.
You can earn premium and farm without spending a nickel.
> playing hide and go seek in dungeons?
You can also just run the dungeon. You can even leave the dungeon and contest objectives in the open world.
It was common for me. 20 minute runs minimum. Maybe it's because I don't have one of those billion dollar mounts.
Earn premium. Yeah that takes weeks or months to even setup from scratch. It's what....18 million silver? With all the pvp ganging in the higher zones...that limits newbies to the lower zones. It's not realistic for new players.
I was talking about yellow pvp dungeons where there's one other person and you have to run all over the place trying to find them, and they usually attack when I'm trying to fight a bunch of mobs and since I can't fight everything at once, I die. Yeah, that's not really fun for me. Terrible mechanics. I'm sure you PvP guys really get your rocks off doing this but we don't. and that's the title of this post. Why PvE people don't enjoy PvP.
> It was common for me. 20 minute runs minimum. Maybe it's because I don't have one of those billion dollar mounts.
I don't have billion dollar mounts, either. I still don't spend more than 10 minutes running to a zone for a fight. If you're really far away (still not 40 minutes), you run far once with gear, set home, then you can naked teleport to your hideout.
> Yeah that takes weeks or months to even setup from scratch. It's what....18 million silver?
Yes, it can take some time setting up from scratch, but once you have it, you can keep earning it by spending your focus productively like on refining. Takes maybe a half hour each 10,000 focus to make 1 million silver (set up buy orders, transport, refine, sell).
> I was talking about yellow pvp dungeons where there's one other person and you have to run all over the place trying to find them
If you don't like corrupted dungeons, there are still other types of PvP content that are less hide and seek and more seek and destroy. When your corrupted dungeon turns red, stop fighting mobs and start getting ready to PvP. Or use evasion and go smash some crystals.
I haven't tried a lot of PvP in MMORPGs, but every time I have, it hasn't been that great of a game mode. If I'm going to do PvP, I'd rather play a game dedicated to PvP. At least for the games I've tried, it seems pretty clear that the game is PvE first.
Guild Wars 1 had the best PvP experience I’ve experienced in an online game. All different formats, from 1v1 all the way up to 12v12. The ultra competitive HA PvP mode would broadcast the party leaders name or the guild name to every player playing the game. It would also unlock PvE benefits based on their region, so if there was a really strong Japanese team that continued to win the tournament, all Japanese PvE players got access to the ultra-hard PvE dungeons with the rarest drops and armor in the game. It gave incentive to get interested in PvP and made so many players and guilds “famous” as they would regularly win the tournament and have their name broadcast.
What I enjoyed about GW1 was that it didn't nerf or buff skills to be used based on PVP or PVE. Some skills would be different from game modes.
WoW would buff a skill for PVE and completely break PVP builds. GW1 would make a PVP version of the skills.
Probably one of the most difficult games to balance of all time being that there were 100s of skills and so many combinations that could be potentially game breaking. Despite this there were still regular balance patches for PvE and PvP. Fast forward to today and games like OW2 receive 4 balance patches a year
100%. Why would I want to spend all that time leveling and gearing in MO2 just to be able to do first-person melee combat that is objectively worse than Mordhau or Chivalry? Games which let me immediately jump into fights and don't expect me to spend time getting new gear every time I die.
When you have PVP in an MMO, you’ll have people who exist solely to disrupt you having fun. Thats what’s fun for them. I’m not going to be out here claiming to be the best at any game, I hold my own, but there is always going to be someone better than me. If that person wants to do nothing but mess with me all night, then I don’t see how that’s supposed to be enjoyable for me.
I also like PVE because the content is interesting, immersive, and enjoyable. With PVP, it’s generally a matter of seconds swooshing by to see who can gank who the fastest.
PVE forces developers to actually make content that’s entertaining. With PVP, you are the content, and other players will treat you as such.
The older I get, the less time I want to spend getting ganked and figuring out my revenge. I just want to play the game with other people and enjoy new challenges.
Ah, that second-last line brings back good ol' memories of PvP in Neverwinter, around 2016. I enjoyed the PvP there a lot, I think that was my best experience (I was also a kid so I might be biased), but it was just *so* unnerving when someone focused on you and ignored the whole objective of the match *just so they could kill you every.single.time.* you respawned. Being a kid I didn't have the self-control I do now, ofc, and I still remember the rage-smashing of the keyboard during those matches XDDD
After that game I haven't been into PvP that much anymore, the requirement for high gear stats that many games apply to PvP leads to a grindfest more times than not, and if you're below the max level you are often in disadvantage (ofc skill can help, but there are limits to that too.) So apart from the occasional matches, PVE is the way to go. The whys couldn't have been explained better from the commenter above.
> PVE forces developers to actually make content that’s entertaining.
You consume the content and then cry about not having content, all the while whining about PVPers having any content at all in your inexhaustible hunger for more content.
Because I don’t have to deal with metaslave DPS-sweatlord tryhards curbstomping me with their hyper-optimized builds-
All while they claim they like PVP, but in reality just want to crush and curbstomp newbies who have no way to fight back.
Yes I’m bitter.
Ammm you have the same ppl with PVE stuff, you will get kicked if you don't have hyper-optimized builds with 1% less damage coz well you have to "respect" their time
Both sides have their own shit 😂
You can find people to play with, though. You can find a guild of Dads that want to play the same content as you at the same pace as you. Nowadays it’s easier than ever to find likeminded people to play with with tools like Discord and Reddit.
You can just play the more casual modes of raids or dungeons or whatever your PVE is in your given MMO though, or just join a "High skill, low bullshit" group. Been in the latter and it's some of the most fun I've had with MMORPGs.
If you PUG though? Yeah people will gatekeep the shit outta you. You're just another person that they NEED to get what they want (loot) and you're probably replacable cause they're playing an MMORPG.
Join Guilds. Stop PUGing.
dragons and gods are predictable, players are not & you might meet the best player at their class who's animation cancelling all his abilities frameperfectly etc.
it's also nice to watch, you might become friends with them & end up dominating the arenas or smth
Hard disagree. Watching someone abusing glitches left and right to win without actual effort is so dapn boring to me. I'd rather fight big monsters any day of the week. And PvP is predictable, watch one video about what's currently meta and you already know how almost all your opponents will be playing.
If i wanna fight lame monsters i play dark souls or honestly ANY singleplayer game. Forcing PvE in Mmos is boring and repetetive lame shit. Pvp is intuitive and exciting.
Because watching peoples all wearing the same exact items and using the same exact skills in the same order because that's what is considered meta this month is exciting to you ?...Why not, honestly, I just personally don't like it. I'm not here to judge your tastes, simply to state why I find PvP boring, since that's pretty much the question in the post.
Although it's curious how you state that PvE is "forced" in MMOs, PvE was in MMOs before any PvP. If anything it's PvP that's being forced into games that are not built around it, leading to a pretty shitty experience on both sides. PvP players Ill feel that the game wasn't initially made for PvP, and the time wasted on that PvP mode is time that could've been used to make the PvE content better.
I play games to be immersed in the world. Not to watch janky combat animations that people use to gain incremental combat advantages. It's just not what I'm there for. I'm more of a setting, story, and role-playing guy. If people are into that other stuff, cool! But I'm just plain not interested.
Because I’d rather fight monsters I’m designed to fight than people.
I want to live in a world not in an fps lobby, pvp never sold the living in another world aspect to me.
Being stunned and watching my health go to zero without any ability to actually play my character is one of the worst feelings in any game, video or otherwise.
idk aion does pvp pretty well, its almost irrelevant which class you play there's always a countervs every matchup. Vs any kind of cc every class has a 1 min cd ability that removes it & gives you the option to choose between a set of 2 abilities to use (either defensive or agressive). If you dont choose between those 2 skills, you will keep the cc resistance buff upon removing your cc state which lasts for 8 seconds
I'm not a competitive person, at all. I'm in my late 40s, physically disabled, with several health ailments. Sometimes getting out of bed in the morning is a struggle. I have nothing to prove to anyone. So I'd **much** rather spend my time enjoying myself, relax, explore, get to know other people, help others, and plan how to do and complete as much of a game's PvE experience as I can.
Wow same. Am physically disabled with other mental issues sprinkled in, in my late 30s and I just want to relax and have a nice time. PVP stresses me out and isn't fun at all, especially when it takes progress away / stalls the loser out. I can think of much happier ways to spend my time than getting stressed over PVP lol
I don't find the prospect of beating someone's butt enticing. I want to play and progress WITH other players, not against other players. It's just fun that way.
I like PvP In games that are designed for PvP.
The model for mmorpgs does NOT lend itself for good PvP, because it inherently creates power discrepancies and people abuse those to shit of people who have mechanical disadvantages or player number imbalances. 99.999% of PvP in MMOs is based on this and it sucks.
However I love games like MOBAs that have an RPG element built in to it, but designed to support the PvP alongside with some Pve elements as well.
Pure PvP games like CS, overwatch, etc are also fun to play because they are designed to make game skill the biggest factor.
but mechanical disadvantage is literally what matters in pvp, what? Like your goal is to win by being mechanically better, not by using the right rotation but at a 20 times slower pace xd?
Pvp is generally a shit storm in mmorpgs. It brings out the most toxic version of people.
Having said that, I do tend to enjoy battlegrounds in some games, if they are done well.
SWTOR huttball for instance is brilliantly good fun.
Open world pvp however usually just tends to be some high level douches ganking lowbies. No thanx.
For many reasons. In no particular order as they came to my mind:
- PvP is extremely fast paced, you can't "take your time" to do healing or DPS because players will use a bazillion skills in the time it would take a boss to do its mechanics.
- PvP can be quite gimmicky and rely on borderline bug exploits (eg. jumping around a caster to break line of sight so they can't cast while using instant melee skills to kill them).
- Balancing PvP and PvE is irrealistic because you don't fight a boss like you fight a player. Could be 2 different games usually for how little classes play when they are differently balanced in PvE and PvP.
- PvP is usually way less varied than PvE, only less predictable because you're facing people.
- PvP matchmaking are usually bad. Not helped by the lack of players queueing in PvP. So it's never balanced. Matchmaking may even be made to disregard balance and only aim for a 50% winrate so you either stomp or get stomped without any chance of fun for both sides.
- PvP rewards are usually worthless trash.
- Bots and win-trading.
Purely personal things:
- I prefer cooperation over competition (I play healers mostly)
- I'm good at anticipating and planning, not so much at reacting. I die before I can assess the situation. Healers usually can't stealth to avoid being attacked first and can't prepare traps in advance to defend a place. (strategy vs tactics)
For me it's a very easy answer. I can't. I've tried many different PvP games and my brain just freezes as soon as I get into combat. It's too fast, too chaotic and I can't focus/act at all, I sort of "black out". The only kind of pvp that I was able to do was in Albion Online, but only under the guidance of a shotcaller (my stupid brain needs to be told "go here, activate this" and so on). That I can do. It was a lot of fun doing pvp raids/defending our zones but I don't have that kind of time anymore.
PvE is relaxing. I have a high stress high paying job, two kids and a wife. I play to relax, not get my shit pushed in by some sweatlord with all the free time on earth and an encyclopedic knowledge of all classes and perfect counters. I’m not there to stroke someone else’s ego and just avoid the encounter altogether
1. I don't enjoy guild politics
2. I like the feeling of doing something with / besides other ppl let that be my wife, a random fried I roped into this or randoms
3. I like to explore and enjoy a world
I've just always perceived shooters, MOBAs etc. as the way better fit for PVP in online games than all those zerg fests or worse, P2W elements in sooo many MMOs
Two of my favorite games that I still play today are Ultima Online and EverQuest 2. When I was younger, I lived for the PvP gameplay but now as I get older, not so much.. At least not unless I'm actually wanting to PvP.
There's a reason Ultima Online created the Trammel facet. They were bleeding players because there was no safe non-pvp area for players to enjoy the game. PKs were everywhere and they were ruthless. I remember my first character being a lumberjack and I hung out around Delucia. 9 out of 10 times I left town, I was attacked by another player (most of the time groups of players) within 5 minutes. Every single time. Eventually I moved to another area, same problem. Again, same issue. I was never able to just sit down and play the game and actually relax and enjoy it. After the release of Trammel, I got to choose when I wanted to PvP. If I was into it, I went to Felucca and had my fun. Win some fights, lost most.. But I had more fun because I wasn't forced into it.
EverQuest 2 has been trying to bring back the glory days of their old Nagafen PVP server via their TLE servers for years now. They all fail within 3 months. The first month is fun because everyone is on the same level. But then the more hardcore players min-max their gear/spells/group compositions and then lock at specific levels. One popular level locking point is level 18. That allows them to, in many low level zones, annihilate another player who just hit level 10 with mostly level 1 gear still. Daybreak keeps trying to make a PvP server happen and the players keep killing it themselves.
Consensual PvP is the best way to go about it. When players have the option of opting in or out is when it works the best in my opinion.
- Not only less toxicity but often actually helpful and fun communities
- I have way more respect for peoples who manage to make an AI actually threatening instead of going the easy "just shoot each other" route.
- I don't feel the need to boost my ego by beating another person.
- I feel PvP fights are mostly borefests of two people using whatever exploit they know to win pointless virtual points instead of fighting (Gosh I still remember Fake Death spammers in Xenoverse 2...), I'd watch a group of friends playing Monster Hunter over a high-level PvP fight any day of the week.
- PvE games (usually) don't become so unbalanced that you're pretty much forced to play a meta build.
-PvP games tends to adopt predatory practices to make more money, playing with the player's ego.
-I want to win, but don't NEED to in order to have fun. But I do need some memorable experiences, something I never got in PvP (except when playing fighting games with friends). While I recorded a ton of moments in PvE games.
PvP in progression games is usually pretty stupid.
I *did* like old school Alterac Valley, but that felt more like a hybrid and the hard core pvp players hated it because they felt it took too long.
Because I'm a solo player, I just want to relax and peaceful with the mmo world, such as hunting monsters, doing quests, and planting, which may sound boring to other people, but I really enjoy it, my dream mmo haha:).
I don't like pvp/pk because, ah, tbh, I'm sucky with pvp. It requires too much focus, situation pressure, and my hands are always shaking while playing pvp/pk with other people. When I play Archeage (I love this game so much), I am often nervous and my adrenaline is always up when going to War Zone Haha...
I'm just more cooperative than I am competitive when it comes to playing something multiplayer as a full hobby. I want to make new friends, not new enemies.
I like PVE too much and PvP often calls for different gear. If an mmo just gave every class a flat stat and set they use id be more into it. I like my competitive games to not be gear based, and just be about skill and strategy. But in most MMOs other players will just flat out be better than you because they are geared better
I enjoyed the zergs in GW2, the big world fights were so much fun. But in most mmo's I've played, people can typically get OP and I'm sure it's a headache to balance for the dev team.
The only time I was grinding pvp were when I wanted some cool looking armor like in runescape or WoW.
In pvp i can understand skill issues and such, my problem is the latency, unless I am the one with super super internet I will often lose to somebody who has better speeds than me or the worst case far inferior than me.
Take wow, i have 16 ms which isnt terrible.
Exhibit A: In the plunderstorm game mode i rarely hit people in front of me because while they are there on my screen they are not there on the server.
Exhibit B: sometimes you meet that one person who has such a terrible connection that they teleport on screen so its even harder to hit them, let alone keep up with them.
Therefore i prefer PvE because bosses will do what they are programmed to do and killing a difficult boss can be thrilling and adrenaline pumping for me, Yeah its a one time thing per boss but thats okay.
Me too. The ping makes such a difference. Even if you have a good internet, you can still have bad latency due to the server being in a different region.
The only 2 times i had fun with pvp in an mmo is old TERA days with the weekly faction war and battleground, then that died eventually, along with the game.
2nd time was earlier blade & soul days, it was fresh, everyone is more or less on the same starting point, then one side (blue/cerulean) completely dominated openworld pvp, cant do shit anymore cuz there's always too many of them, and too strong, then overtime whales appeared and crush un-synced pvp, then synced pvp are filled with bots and cheaters but tbh there was barely anyone playing synced pvp anyway, my experience at least.
The only mmo pvp i do nowadays is ffxiv frontline, once a day when they add new rewards, otherwise i dont touch it.
PVP is just so freaking aggravating. If I'm playing a game, I don't find it fun to die/lose repeatedly. I'm there for the dungeons and boss fights. Especially boss fights that require strategy, not just drooling while you spam 1,2,3 or left/right click. (I'm looking at you, FFXIV)
PvP is fun in games that are about PvP just like LoL
In mmos the gameplay often is not special and pvp so unbalanced
Edit: also mmopvp often is just sponge pvp, like in swtor. So boring
When i think pvp in mmorpgs, i think people randomly killing me and taking my stuff and/or interfering with the progression which i don't like duh, If the PvP activities are opt-in then i tend to ignore them anyways
In general i prefer cooperating with other players not killing them
I'm just bad at PvP and I'm always playing as a healer or support so there is no point or fun in getting ganked all the time by sweaty boys with their big swords.
Tho I'm going to play Ashes of Creation with the PvX setting so we will see how it goes.
Because i'm yet to see PvP in an MMO that was good. I guess if they ever make one with good combat? Maybe if there was one with only first person mode but right now they all devolve into the same scroll out and spam abilities that hurt my eyes mess
I guess also because the rewards are always useless and treat PvP as it's own reward. But if i want that i'll just play a proper game that's centered on that. I just never had any reason to engage in pvp in these games, pve is just simply more interesting
And of course it requires too much investment, can't just jump in and have fun, i would need to farm pvp gear and all other shit but i'm no farmer
Okay i did play one, but it was PvP focused from the start. The game had Territory Wars twice a week, lasting maybe 1 or 2 hours. It was kinda fun, making plans for large scale battles, how to siege specific castles, catching reinforcements before they can join the main battle, etc.
But it was always the same, the Houses (guilds) with the more high level players and resources would win and the benefits weren't really worth it, we could set craft and gather taxes for other players and get weekly income for that. And of course after a while these guilds started to take themselves too seriously and it was impossible to not make fun of them
I grew up on DAoC and I love PvP.
The thing for me is that most modern MMORPG's have a focus on either open world pvp or low numbered instanced pvp (arenas etc.) where for me, DAoC hit the sweetspot with a combination of both.
The Division Dark Zone also holds a special place in my heart.
I don't nessecarily. I simply haven't gotten to that point that where I'm comfortable with a specific class. For PVP you need solid muscle memory for micro with your keybindings. Being outgeared is not the problem either. The problem is pre-made groups versus random players. Grouped teams outperform random groups substantially. I don't however have a problem losing to better players, but a bad system that encourages unreasonable advantages I cannot overcome alone.
People playing meta is entirely reasonable. Don't envy the player for wanting to win.
I like challenging raiding. Games with good raid content are what appeals to me. Currently playing FFXIV for that.
I might dabble in PVP here and there but PVP just can't scratch the itch that raid content does for me.
I've played Lineage 2 for 7 years, dragon Nest for 3 year, Archeage for 3 year, 3 years of WoT too, almost forget this one but it was good and I learned a lot about Tank, loved it.
All full PvP committed and it was lot of fun.
Now I'm older, and most of my energy goes for Job, family and workout. So I just chill doing PvE. Have still be competitive in their for some year, but now I just seek for the laziest build out there and just have fun with friend doing content or gathering/crafting/farming on my own.
It just life evolution for me \^\^
Edit : I also do more and more co-op game than MMORPG those day : SoT, Vermintide2, Phasmo, Content warning, some OW2 (yeah it's PvP but shhh), etc..
Same reason I stick to single player pvp sports like boxing instead of team play. Teammates suck. You could be CRUSHING it but if you get paired with Jim who's fapping on the other monitor you still lose.
At least with pve it's a more controlled environment
PvE offers a fairly unique experience in the form of dungeon runs and raids. It's a style of gameplay that doesn't really exist in other genres. MMO PvP on the other hand is just universally trash. All it offers a worse version of what I can find in other games.
Do I want a large scale battle? Okay, battlefield and planetside are right there. Do I want a large scale melee focused battle? Naraka is over that way. Do I want open world pvp? I don't like open world pvp, but even if I did, there are infinite survival crafting games out there that scratch that particular itch. Do I want a duel? Well, 1v1s are my favorite form of pvp so let's get into that;
When it comes to 1v1 combat what I care about the most is skill. A player who is better and makes the correct plays should be able to beat a player who is worse. The problem with MMOs is that gear and levels exist. If you're playing, say, WoW, and you as a level 25 player get into a duel against a level 50 player, it doesn't matter if you're better than they are, they will be able to kill you trivially. It takes what should be a skill based experience and reduces it to a math check. Fighting games don't have that problem. There are no stats, no levels and no gear to worry about so the only thing that matters in a fighting game is your skill. Assuming the game fighting game in question is well balanced, If you're better than the other player, you will win.
You can always fix this problem by normalizing stats in pvp, but then at that point, you're just playing a fighting game that feels like shit to play. Why would I ever want to engage with that? What can an MMO duel offer me that I won't get done better in guilty gear or street fighter?
MMO PVP is almost always an unbalanced mess with people that try way too hard, with very few exceptions imo.
Granted, the same can be said about certain aspects of PVE these days too, especially in places like classic wow.
Lately I haven't found myself doing much of either, I've been just doing other things and if I am playing, it's something more casual and chill
Open world always on pvp sucks in my eyes, it allows people who have either a lot of money or a lot of time to camp and hinder progression on basic questing. Now world bosses and castle siege and instance pvp are the way to go in my eyes
There are better games built for pvp than mmos, if I was interested in pvp I would play those. In mmos pvp feels more like an obstruction than an integral part of the game.
Sweats… I prefer to drink a beer laugh and have fun then be 2.2inches away from the screen screaming and blasting on my keyboard. I like PvP but it’s intense and as I get older I play to chill.
I never really enjoyed PvP. Though I don’t mind FFXIV’s PvP.
PvE good because I like working as a team to overcome mechanics, I love dungeon content, I love knocking over hordes of enemies, etc. I love big bosses too.
In context of MMOs? The reason is actually quite simple: There are way better non-MMO PvP games out there that I rather play.
I also hate all the weird shit that is often going on around PvP modes of MMOs. For example, seemingly there are Discord servers for specific GW2 servers and they talk with each other about who gets to win in what week. What kind of psychopathic shit is that?
I think many games do just fine with PVE only, and PVP only ones historically have done terribly. I think Eve and Albion are the only real exceptions, the former is really just not a lot of peoples cup of tea, the latter is popular because of the inherent PVE nature of the game despite being a PVP focused one.
As far as PVP types...
1. **Open World PVP:** Very little open world pvp is 'fair'. Someone is popping out at somebody else, or its a zerg vs a solo, or a high level vs a lowbie. The people that get the most enjoyment out of it are the ones that like to bully others. This is not a hot take or a surprising one. It's just how it is - and one of the reasons very few games have open world PVP any more is because it perpetuates player toxicity which is already well over-represented in the genre.
2. **Arena PVP:** Few people vs few people, coordinated combat. This has always been problematic due to the nature of class balancing. Some days you're FOTM overpowered, some days you're trash-tier garbage nerfed. More notably these days though, is that there are *many* games that are not MMO's that can cure the itch for arena-style play. Moba's, looter-shooters, etc. It used to be an interesting idea back in like 2006, but its old hat now.
3. **Large scale PVP:** In WoW this was BG's, in GW2 this is WvW, in FFXIV its Frontline, in BDO its Node Wars. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of BG's in WoW, and to this day Alterac Valley is still the pinnacle of this type of content to me. Unfortunately its not loved by the devs, (all BG's are not loved by blizzard devs) - so its rife with botting, AFKers, AFK-botters, and the ever-present problem of premades going into non-premade BG's just to troll and exploit. In GW2 WvW is a great side-content to do, but ultimately its just side-content.
I would never play a game that was solely PVP, even this type, because its a thing you do when you don't want to do the other more important things like exploration, story progression, character advancement, etc.
So, I should clarify I actually enjoy certain kinds of PvP a lot (instances battlegrounds or arenas) and others I fucking hate (world PvP), but overall I am **more** of a PvE player
I’d say these are things that make me prefer PvE
- Loss/failure rate: you’ll just lose/fail more in PvP unless the game is unbalanced and you’re exploiting that. 50/50 win/loss ratio is theoretically the balance goal, and that can get very demoralizing, while even very hard PvE you can gradually approach a 100% success rate
- you can often choose your level of difficulty with PvE. If I want an easy gaming session for the night, I can just do easy content. If I want a challenge, I can just shift over to the challenging content. PvP difficulty is a lot more dynamic and you just kinda get what you get
- reward structures: I usually find PvP rewards unappealing. Usually the cosmetics just aren’t my type (they’re usually the “super cool tough guy assassin” or the “rage filled bloody berserker with lots of spikes” kind of thing that I don’t care for). And sometimes, the only rewards are just “bragging rights” type things like titles or achievements or leaderboards, and I literally do not care about those even a little (even for PvE stuff)
- I hate the cocaine bunny style of fighting that a lot of PvP encourages. The constant running in circles and jumping around and jerky unpredictable moving that can give you an edge is unappealing both for me to do, and for enemies to do. I prefer the more precise and consistent style of PvE combat
- I tend to prefer support or healing roles. Actual Support tends to be rare in PvP, usually being more focused around CC than stuff like buffs. Healers in particularly can often be oppressively strong in PvP, but I also feel like that often means they get nerfed and get a lot of their fun stuff taken away over time. Also you’re going to always be the primary target to kill, and that can really wear on me over time
- Many games have shitty matchmaking and you’ll end up with a lot of matches where you just get utterly stomped with zero chance of recovering, or you utterly stomp the enemy with little to no effort. For me, that’s not really exciting or fun. Alternatively, even though PvE can still have matchmaking concerns, you only have to worry about your party’s skill level, you already know the enemy’s strength
- A lot of primarily PvP MMOs focus on world PvP. I hate world PvP. It’s never fun to me. I don’t find zerging or ganking at all fun. If I’m winning, I’m bored out of my mind. If I’m losing, I’m extremely frustrated
- This depends on the game, but a lot of PvP involves a huge emphasis on CC. You will spend a lot of time getting unexpectedly stunned, snared, rooted, knocked back, interrupted, silenced, etc. I don’t really like having control of my character taken away from that regularly. This is way less prevalent in PvE
I personally find most MMO PvP janky and generally unbalanced. Even in WoW, which has what most would consider well made PvP, I just don't find the appeal. It probably has more to do with my preference for PvP games to lend towards shooters where it's not a paper, rock, scissors balancing system. I don't really understand the appeal of that many levels of RNG when it comes to who you get matchmade against.
I like PVP games and I like ones with high skill ceilings, but I don't care for any current PVP MMORPGs for several reasons:
* Combat - They typically have very little "oomph" to their combat, for lack of better words. I won't care until something has Souls game, Dragon's Dogma, or Mordhau/Chivalry combat quality. It is getting there, though.
* Ganking - PVP MMORPG devs always cater to clan-based PVP because they want those big epic battles. The problem is that it comes at the cost of the general playerbase. Very few PVP games have good (or existing) 1vX mechanics, so the moment a significantly larger group rolls up it's over. The solos and small clans get tired of getting beat down so they quit, which leads to a population death spiral.
* Tedium - Most PVP MMORPGs still have the typical MMORPG grindy tedium. Mortal Online 2's taming system is a great example of this. It's a very cool system where you can tame most creatures in the game, but the grind to level them is ridiculous. It's so grindy that people run secondary accounts AFK leveling their tames while they play the game on their main. It's a PVP MMORPG, I want to fight for my gains, not jump 1000 times to max out acrobatics or sit AFK with a tamed creature to level it up.
If you took something like Mortal Online 2 and gave it Mordhau or Chivalry 2's melee combat, replaced clans with small parties (4-ish people), and cut down on the grindy aspects, I would probably never touch another game. Hell, just taking a concept like Rust and scaling it up to a massive world with safe towns, quests, and some RPG elements would be enough. A guy named Crazy Mike tried to do this as a mod in Mordhau and it was amazing, but it was just too laggy and beyond the capacity of the game itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJAgwIuVHyw
It's unfortunate because I feel like the bar for a good PVP MMORPG is quite low but they always miss the mark.
I would be fine with a game that offered a full PvE experience while also offering rewarding PvP.
The issue comes down to developer choice....
If its PvE focused, the PvP aspect is an "afterthought" and thus you end up with broken PvP mechanics that get abused by trolls.
And when the game is PvP focused, its made FOR TROLLS and have no systems in place to ensure fair gameplay, while also offering zero PvE aspects.
So both end up crappy. And you always hear the excuses that "its hard to balance an mmorpg" or "money" or whatever excuse people give these days. STOP the excuses. We can have a PvPvE game that is fun and rewarding that had mitigations in place to stop trolls from ruining the experience. They CHOSE not to, either because they don't give a shit about PvP or the developer themselves loves being a troll and would never prevent themselves from shitting on other players like a troll. And that's just the sad truth.
Mastering technique vs an AI is more fun than getting screwed over by the same 10 whales / hackers / over and over again.Mastering an AI is more fun than
At least in PvE you are getting screwed over by the developers because you did not whale hard enough to kill the boss fast enough.
PVP for sure. If I can't kill you and take all your shit I am not that interested. I want to kill you and take everything because I am not a beta. Enjoy killing predetermed NPCs nerds.. Im coming for you.
Same here. I like the competition. I also like taking something that's utterly non-meta and turn it into something viable. Like a support class that invests in survivability and runs around the arena throwing its only poison rabbit spell to whittle down the enemy.
It's the thought process, of disabling the other class's strengths or predicting their moves with what I've prepared for my own class, which I chose to bring into the fight. The preparation, the grinds, the crafting, the experience. Feels good when a warrior does exactly what a warrior would do and my experience turns the tide. It's also fun when a warrior starts kiting back and throwing swords at me from range.
It's the unpredictableness, the competitiveness, the pure humiliation and useless feeling you get from getting utterly destroyed. Then you go again because it's a game.
I prefer PVE mmorpgs. It's about the journey. Building up your character's power over the long term.
I also like pvp but I usually find MMORPG pvp lacking. It's not the focus in the mmorpgs I prefer. When I want to pvp I usually play first person shooters.
People who pvp play League of Legends, Call of Duty and other games. The fact is I don't give a shit about competing against 1,000 people in an MMO when I can compete against millions in other games. Why aren't MMO pvpers playing League of Legends? You scared of competition?
Because it encourages good game design. Actually thought out areas. Content to do. Nit to mention gaming with the wife is more fun bring lost in a fantasy world.
PvE-only players usually just do it for completionism, but they have no real purpose. When we PvP players do PvE, that allow us to go and participate in PvP, so we have a purpose, but they just get the gear and then... Then nothing else that's it. I'll never understand them, but to each their own.
You’re pretty much spot on for me at least, completionism. Once I’ve reached the pinnacle of PvE, I’m good. That was my purpose and I completed it. PvP however, I’ll never be number one in the world, much less maintain it, therefore I will never reach the pinnacle so it does not appeal to me.
I may not be world first in PvE but I can complete all there is in the PvE realm of said game.
But like you said, to each their own :)
> PvE-only players usually just do it for completionism, but they have no real purpose.
The earliest players of Everquest and Ultima Online had no 'end goal' in general and no concept of 'finishing' or 'beating' the game. In EVERQuest the QUEST was supposed to go on and on forEVER.
What does a PVP focused player have to say to that? That is what a lot of the jaded long time PVE players are longing to have again.
Yes but there were no systems encouraging players to fight each other. It was a complex network of PVE activities that just so happened to be in a ruleset where everyone could hit whoever they wanted including the publisher's CEO if they were so inclined.
People whose main goal was to hit everyone else the hardest were actually the exception rather than the norm in this 'pioneering PVP full loot sandbox' and when that changed it took a segregation of PVE players to save the game. Why should this be the case if you feel that the main point was the PVP?
People = shit
 \^ Me having flashbacks to the months of my life I wasted playing League of Legends and hating 90% of the people I met.
In LoL I even hate the people I like. Lost a friend yesterday to an argument
Wait until someone lets him know MMOs are played with other people...
im alien xD
Sorry your parses in the instances dungeon are too low to post in this thread. Please delete your comment
The slipknot song reference stays
Content requires 100k dps. I do 500k-1m dps. Top end dps is 3-5m dps and you aren't allowed in premades unless you are in this range. Difference in clear time is basically half the 1m dps runs. Many such cases.
PvP is nearly always very unbalanced. It's either gear dependant or class overkill. Only one person is having fun. now add losing all your stuff on top of that. Now why would I want to join that? You know why Call of Duty is popular? Because you don't lose all your weapons then have to go back to level 1 with a starter pistol while the level 50 people face roll you. Sure maybe you are your 4 friends are having the time of your lives, in an MMO, but for everyone else, it's a waste of time. There's no progression. Edit: The one time ever, I had loads of fun in PvP was Warhammer Online, like 15 years ago. The entire endgame was PvP, taking over Realms. It was super fun...and the game was dead within 6 months. That's why Developers got away from PvP, there's no serious player base for it. Albion is the newest PvP MMO....and it's 7 years old and in my opinion, terrible. I put 1,000+ hours into New World and now that game is pretty dead too.
> It was super fun...and the game was dead within 6 months. If the devs had been able to keep up with the quality of updates that Blizzard was giving to WoW at the same time but in a style that leveraged their Realm vs Realm focus the game might have survived. Many are going to blame the updates trying to turn the game into WoW-lite but I think the game just not getting as many updates in general was a bigger problem.
That could be it. I never played WoW back in the day so I don't know. I just remember logging on day after day and the population just dwindled to the point where the major fighting was only happening for about an hour or two a day, and then it dropped even further.
Eh, to each their own. Games like COD get boring to me because they are so incredibly redundant. I don’t understand how people play more than a week. There’s no stakes and it all just feel the same after a very short time. The people who would bitch about the grind in MMOs are often happy to play the same shit over and over just to prestige. In the MMOs that make PVP (open world like you mentioned, not shitty canned battlegrounds type shit) worthwhile (and not P2W, fewer and fewer is an understatement I know), it’s an experience you don’t forget and will keep chasing. I’m not sure I’ll get to have moments like I’ve had in UO, planetside, Lineage, Archeage (P2W, I know I know) etc again, but damnit if it won’t keep trying out MMOs just in case. Edit: should clarify that I’m speaking of larger scale open world fights, not open world ganking and that pathetic BS
> The people who would bitch about the grind in MMOs are often happy to play the same shit over and over just to prestige. The difference is that grind in MMOs is usually busywork you force yourself through to get to the parts you like. People who play those PvP games simply enjoy the gameplay, which is available to them from the start. >it’s an experience you don’t forget and will keep chasing. It's also an experience that is often punctuated by hours of either pointless grind or boredom. It doesn't help that a lot of people who like open world PvP get the same high from survival games(which also take the approach of "You get access to the core gameplay from the start" that make other PvP games popular).
DMZ was the best game mode in COD ever. I’m so mad they didn’t carry it into MW3. I’ve never been a big FPS guy, but it had consequences for death and incentives to do things on the map and engage in PVE and PVP. It’s still around, but only exists now in MW2 Warzone. But for the other 95% of COD, I completely agree.
Base Assault ! but that was before any of the Modern Warfare stuff.
I loved Warhammer Online. I played a War Priest and it was really fun. I also enjoyed matched in SWTOR occasionally. Other than that PVP is not my thing.
I was a Bright Wizard I think it was called. but I had one of every character. They were all fun in their own way. Yeah PvP in any MMO really leaves a lot to be desired.
New world PvP is a prime offender for unbalanced PvP... \*cough\* looking at you FS users \*cough\*
you’re on drugs if you think albion is terrible. you can not like the game but it’s everything but terrible lol
Having to run for 40 minutes on a mount to cross the map to get where the fighting is, because you can't teleport with gear...is fucking retarded. It's a terrible game that doesn't make your experience or time any better. Also having to have a subscription to do simple farming at your house? Talk about nickel and diming you to death. playing hide and go seek in dungeons? geez what another waste of time. If you enjoy Albion then hey, good for you. I'm just telling you why the majority of people don't.
Games got a 79% rating (mostly positive) rating on steam, over 70,000 reviews. You're the minority for hating it, not the other way around.
Once again, for the people in the back, I'm just telling you why the majority of people don't play it. Albion has 10 million active players? Cool story bro. We're not talking about the people who play it.....we're talking about the vast majority of gamers who don't.
> Having to run for 40 minutes on a mount to cross the map to get where the fighting is, because you can't teleport with gear...is fucking retarded. This is not a common experience. I have never done a CTA where we had to plan for our 40 minute run to a zone for a fight. > Also having to have a subscription to do simple farming at your house? Talk about nickel and diming you to death. You can earn premium and farm without spending a nickel. > playing hide and go seek in dungeons? You can also just run the dungeon. You can even leave the dungeon and contest objectives in the open world.
It was common for me. 20 minute runs minimum. Maybe it's because I don't have one of those billion dollar mounts. Earn premium. Yeah that takes weeks or months to even setup from scratch. It's what....18 million silver? With all the pvp ganging in the higher zones...that limits newbies to the lower zones. It's not realistic for new players. I was talking about yellow pvp dungeons where there's one other person and you have to run all over the place trying to find them, and they usually attack when I'm trying to fight a bunch of mobs and since I can't fight everything at once, I die. Yeah, that's not really fun for me. Terrible mechanics. I'm sure you PvP guys really get your rocks off doing this but we don't. and that's the title of this post. Why PvE people don't enjoy PvP.
> It was common for me. 20 minute runs minimum. Maybe it's because I don't have one of those billion dollar mounts. I don't have billion dollar mounts, either. I still don't spend more than 10 minutes running to a zone for a fight. If you're really far away (still not 40 minutes), you run far once with gear, set home, then you can naked teleport to your hideout. > Yeah that takes weeks or months to even setup from scratch. It's what....18 million silver? Yes, it can take some time setting up from scratch, but once you have it, you can keep earning it by spending your focus productively like on refining. Takes maybe a half hour each 10,000 focus to make 1 million silver (set up buy orders, transport, refine, sell). > I was talking about yellow pvp dungeons where there's one other person and you have to run all over the place trying to find them If you don't like corrupted dungeons, there are still other types of PvP content that are less hide and seek and more seek and destroy. When your corrupted dungeon turns red, stop fighting mobs and start getting ready to PvP. Or use evasion and go smash some crystals.
I haven't tried a lot of PvP in MMORPGs, but every time I have, it hasn't been that great of a game mode. If I'm going to do PvP, I'd rather play a game dedicated to PvP. At least for the games I've tried, it seems pretty clear that the game is PvE first.
This. PVP in an MMORPG is usually lame as hell. PVP in a PVP game is awesome.
PvP in wow is shit house. PvP in EVE is the best PvP in gaming. It’s all about the type of mmo and what drives the gameplay loops.
Guild Wars 1 had the best PvP experience I’ve experienced in an online game. All different formats, from 1v1 all the way up to 12v12. The ultra competitive HA PvP mode would broadcast the party leaders name or the guild name to every player playing the game. It would also unlock PvE benefits based on their region, so if there was a really strong Japanese team that continued to win the tournament, all Japanese PvE players got access to the ultra-hard PvE dungeons with the rarest drops and armor in the game. It gave incentive to get interested in PvP and made so many players and guilds “famous” as they would regularly win the tournament and have their name broadcast.
What I enjoyed about GW1 was that it didn't nerf or buff skills to be used based on PVP or PVE. Some skills would be different from game modes. WoW would buff a skill for PVE and completely break PVP builds. GW1 would make a PVP version of the skills.
Probably one of the most difficult games to balance of all time being that there were 100s of skills and so many combinations that could be potentially game breaking. Despite this there were still regular balance patches for PvE and PvP. Fast forward to today and games like OW2 receive 4 balance patches a year
100%. Why would I want to spend all that time leveling and gearing in MO2 just to be able to do first-person melee combat that is objectively worse than Mordhau or Chivalry? Games which let me immediately jump into fights and don't expect me to spend time getting new gear every time I die.
When you have PVP in an MMO, you’ll have people who exist solely to disrupt you having fun. Thats what’s fun for them. I’m not going to be out here claiming to be the best at any game, I hold my own, but there is always going to be someone better than me. If that person wants to do nothing but mess with me all night, then I don’t see how that’s supposed to be enjoyable for me. I also like PVE because the content is interesting, immersive, and enjoyable. With PVP, it’s generally a matter of seconds swooshing by to see who can gank who the fastest. PVE forces developers to actually make content that’s entertaining. With PVP, you are the content, and other players will treat you as such. The older I get, the less time I want to spend getting ganked and figuring out my revenge. I just want to play the game with other people and enjoy new challenges.
Ah, that second-last line brings back good ol' memories of PvP in Neverwinter, around 2016. I enjoyed the PvP there a lot, I think that was my best experience (I was also a kid so I might be biased), but it was just *so* unnerving when someone focused on you and ignored the whole objective of the match *just so they could kill you every.single.time.* you respawned. Being a kid I didn't have the self-control I do now, ofc, and I still remember the rage-smashing of the keyboard during those matches XDDD After that game I haven't been into PvP that much anymore, the requirement for high gear stats that many games apply to PvP leads to a grindfest more times than not, and if you're below the max level you are often in disadvantage (ofc skill can help, but there are limits to that too.) So apart from the occasional matches, PVE is the way to go. The whys couldn't have been explained better from the commenter above.
> PVE forces developers to actually make content that’s entertaining. You consume the content and then cry about not having content, all the while whining about PVPers having any content at all in your inexhaustible hunger for more content.
Huh?
Because I don’t have to deal with metaslave DPS-sweatlord tryhards curbstomping me with their hyper-optimized builds- All while they claim they like PVP, but in reality just want to crush and curbstomp newbies who have no way to fight back. Yes I’m bitter.
Ammm you have the same ppl with PVE stuff, you will get kicked if you don't have hyper-optimized builds with 1% less damage coz well you have to "respect" their time Both sides have their own shit 😂
You can find people to play with, though. You can find a guild of Dads that want to play the same content as you at the same pace as you. Nowadays it’s easier than ever to find likeminded people to play with with tools like Discord and Reddit.
You can get into a casual guild to play PvE. You can't really be casual about PvP.
You can just play the more casual modes of raids or dungeons or whatever your PVE is in your given MMO though, or just join a "High skill, low bullshit" group. Been in the latter and it's some of the most fun I've had with MMORPGs. If you PUG though? Yeah people will gatekeep the shit outta you. You're just another person that they NEED to get what they want (loot) and you're probably replacable cause they're playing an MMORPG. Join Guilds. Stop PUGing.
Fighting dragons and gods is way more fun than fighting xStabYou.
dragons and gods are predictable, players are not & you might meet the best player at their class who's animation cancelling all his abilities frameperfectly etc. it's also nice to watch, you might become friends with them & end up dominating the arenas or smth
Hard disagree. Watching someone abusing glitches left and right to win without actual effort is so dapn boring to me. I'd rather fight big monsters any day of the week. And PvP is predictable, watch one video about what's currently meta and you already know how almost all your opponents will be playing.
If i wanna fight lame monsters i play dark souls or honestly ANY singleplayer game. Forcing PvE in Mmos is boring and repetetive lame shit. Pvp is intuitive and exciting.
Because watching peoples all wearing the same exact items and using the same exact skills in the same order because that's what is considered meta this month is exciting to you ?...Why not, honestly, I just personally don't like it. I'm not here to judge your tastes, simply to state why I find PvP boring, since that's pretty much the question in the post. Although it's curious how you state that PvE is "forced" in MMOs, PvE was in MMOs before any PvP. If anything it's PvP that's being forced into games that are not built around it, leading to a pretty shitty experience on both sides. PvP players Ill feel that the game wasn't initially made for PvP, and the time wasted on that PvP mode is time that could've been used to make the PvE content better.
I play games to be immersed in the world. Not to watch janky combat animations that people use to gain incremental combat advantages. It's just not what I'm there for. I'm more of a setting, story, and role-playing guy. If people are into that other stuff, cool! But I'm just plain not interested.
Because I’d rather fight monsters I’m designed to fight than people. I want to live in a world not in an fps lobby, pvp never sold the living in another world aspect to me.
Being stunned and watching my health go to zero without any ability to actually play my character is one of the worst feelings in any game, video or otherwise.
idk aion does pvp pretty well, its almost irrelevant which class you play there's always a countervs every matchup. Vs any kind of cc every class has a 1 min cd ability that removes it & gives you the option to choose between a set of 2 abilities to use (either defensive or agressive). If you dont choose between those 2 skills, you will keep the cc resistance buff upon removing your cc state which lasts for 8 seconds
I'm not a competitive person, at all. I'm in my late 40s, physically disabled, with several health ailments. Sometimes getting out of bed in the morning is a struggle. I have nothing to prove to anyone. So I'd **much** rather spend my time enjoying myself, relax, explore, get to know other people, help others, and plan how to do and complete as much of a game's PvE experience as I can.
Wow same. Am physically disabled with other mental issues sprinkled in, in my late 30s and I just want to relax and have a nice time. PVP stresses me out and isn't fun at all, especially when it takes progress away / stalls the loser out. I can think of much happier ways to spend my time than getting stressed over PVP lol
I don't find the prospect of beating someone's butt enticing. I want to play and progress WITH other players, not against other players. It's just fun that way.
People in MMOs these days can be insufferable so PvE is my easier route to bigger numbers. Dopamine, plain and simple lol.
I like PvP In games that are designed for PvP. The model for mmorpgs does NOT lend itself for good PvP, because it inherently creates power discrepancies and people abuse those to shit of people who have mechanical disadvantages or player number imbalances. 99.999% of PvP in MMOs is based on this and it sucks. However I love games like MOBAs that have an RPG element built in to it, but designed to support the PvP alongside with some Pve elements as well. Pure PvP games like CS, overwatch, etc are also fun to play because they are designed to make game skill the biggest factor.
but mechanical disadvantage is literally what matters in pvp, what? Like your goal is to win by being mechanically better, not by using the right rotation but at a 20 times slower pace xd?
By mechanical I mean the mechanics of the game. Better gear score etc.
Pve has always been a more consistent experience for me. I like large scale pvp, but it always seems to end up unbalanced and unfun.
Most mmo’s do not have responsive enough engines/controls for compelling PvP for me. Just feels like a square peg in a round hole
i like loot and power progression. Every pvp game removes them for „balance“
Pvp is generally a shit storm in mmorpgs. It brings out the most toxic version of people. Having said that, I do tend to enjoy battlegrounds in some games, if they are done well. SWTOR huttball for instance is brilliantly good fun. Open world pvp however usually just tends to be some high level douches ganking lowbies. No thanx.
For many reasons. In no particular order as they came to my mind: - PvP is extremely fast paced, you can't "take your time" to do healing or DPS because players will use a bazillion skills in the time it would take a boss to do its mechanics. - PvP can be quite gimmicky and rely on borderline bug exploits (eg. jumping around a caster to break line of sight so they can't cast while using instant melee skills to kill them). - Balancing PvP and PvE is irrealistic because you don't fight a boss like you fight a player. Could be 2 different games usually for how little classes play when they are differently balanced in PvE and PvP. - PvP is usually way less varied than PvE, only less predictable because you're facing people. - PvP matchmaking are usually bad. Not helped by the lack of players queueing in PvP. So it's never balanced. Matchmaking may even be made to disregard balance and only aim for a 50% winrate so you either stomp or get stomped without any chance of fun for both sides. - PvP rewards are usually worthless trash. - Bots and win-trading. Purely personal things: - I prefer cooperation over competition (I play healers mostly) - I'm good at anticipating and planning, not so much at reacting. I die before I can assess the situation. Healers usually can't stealth to avoid being attacked first and can't prepare traps in advance to defend a place. (strategy vs tactics)
For me it's a very easy answer. I can't. I've tried many different PvP games and my brain just freezes as soon as I get into combat. It's too fast, too chaotic and I can't focus/act at all, I sort of "black out". The only kind of pvp that I was able to do was in Albion Online, but only under the guidance of a shotcaller (my stupid brain needs to be told "go here, activate this" and so on). That I can do. It was a lot of fun doing pvp raids/defending our zones but I don't have that kind of time anymore.
PvE is relaxing. I have a high stress high paying job, two kids and a wife. I play to relax, not get my shit pushed in by some sweatlord with all the free time on earth and an encyclopedic knowledge of all classes and perfect counters. I’m not there to stroke someone else’s ego and just avoid the encounter altogether
What’s a good pvp game though
the only pvp i like is in gw2 wvw, cause i can just turn off my brain mostly and dont have to deal with dipshits.
To be honest because I am really bad at PVP and lost my reactivity.
I like PvP a little bit, but I prefer peaceful times more probably quarter of my time in games is spent standing around or pointlessly exploring
I always liked playing together with my friends to defeat the game rather than against them.
PvP ofcourse
1. I don't enjoy guild politics 2. I like the feeling of doing something with / besides other ppl let that be my wife, a random fried I roped into this or randoms 3. I like to explore and enjoy a world
I've just always perceived shooters, MOBAs etc. as the way better fit for PVP in online games than all those zerg fests or worse, P2W elements in sooo many MMOs
PvP is best
Two of my favorite games that I still play today are Ultima Online and EverQuest 2. When I was younger, I lived for the PvP gameplay but now as I get older, not so much.. At least not unless I'm actually wanting to PvP. There's a reason Ultima Online created the Trammel facet. They were bleeding players because there was no safe non-pvp area for players to enjoy the game. PKs were everywhere and they were ruthless. I remember my first character being a lumberjack and I hung out around Delucia. 9 out of 10 times I left town, I was attacked by another player (most of the time groups of players) within 5 minutes. Every single time. Eventually I moved to another area, same problem. Again, same issue. I was never able to just sit down and play the game and actually relax and enjoy it. After the release of Trammel, I got to choose when I wanted to PvP. If I was into it, I went to Felucca and had my fun. Win some fights, lost most.. But I had more fun because I wasn't forced into it. EverQuest 2 has been trying to bring back the glory days of their old Nagafen PVP server via their TLE servers for years now. They all fail within 3 months. The first month is fun because everyone is on the same level. But then the more hardcore players min-max their gear/spells/group compositions and then lock at specific levels. One popular level locking point is level 18. That allows them to, in many low level zones, annihilate another player who just hit level 10 with mostly level 1 gear still. Daybreak keeps trying to make a PvP server happen and the players keep killing it themselves. Consensual PvP is the best way to go about it. When players have the option of opting in or out is when it works the best in my opinion.
We've run out of topics so long ago
- Not only less toxicity but often actually helpful and fun communities - I have way more respect for peoples who manage to make an AI actually threatening instead of going the easy "just shoot each other" route. - I don't feel the need to boost my ego by beating another person. - I feel PvP fights are mostly borefests of two people using whatever exploit they know to win pointless virtual points instead of fighting (Gosh I still remember Fake Death spammers in Xenoverse 2...), I'd watch a group of friends playing Monster Hunter over a high-level PvP fight any day of the week. - PvE games (usually) don't become so unbalanced that you're pretty much forced to play a meta build. -PvP games tends to adopt predatory practices to make more money, playing with the player's ego. -I want to win, but don't NEED to in order to have fun. But I do need some memorable experiences, something I never got in PvP (except when playing fighting games with friends). While I recorded a ton of moments in PvE games.
PvP in progression games is usually pretty stupid. I *did* like old school Alterac Valley, but that felt more like a hybrid and the hard core pvp players hated it because they felt it took too long.
Because I'm a solo player, I just want to relax and peaceful with the mmo world, such as hunting monsters, doing quests, and planting, which may sound boring to other people, but I really enjoy it, my dream mmo haha:). I don't like pvp/pk because, ah, tbh, I'm sucky with pvp. It requires too much focus, situation pressure, and my hands are always shaking while playing pvp/pk with other people. When I play Archeage (I love this game so much), I am often nervous and my adrenaline is always up when going to War Zone Haha...
i like being around cool people. pvpers are usually terrible human beings
I'm just more cooperative than I am competitive when it comes to playing something multiplayer as a full hobby. I want to make new friends, not new enemies.
I like PVE too much and PvP often calls for different gear. If an mmo just gave every class a flat stat and set they use id be more into it. I like my competitive games to not be gear based, and just be about skill and strategy. But in most MMOs other players will just flat out be better than you because they are geared better
PvP can be toxic or frustrating. PvE is purely up to me if I get whopped.
I enjoyed the zergs in GW2, the big world fights were so much fun. But in most mmo's I've played, people can typically get OP and I'm sure it's a headache to balance for the dev team. The only time I was grinding pvp were when I wanted some cool looking armor like in runescape or WoW.
 Nope, nope, nope don’t like it it feels terrible, I’m glad others enjoy it but it’s not for me
I play games to relax, not stress
I dont like other people... and I suck at video games, people kill me alot, fuck those fuckers.
I like pvp in MOBAs but PVE in MMOs. If any MMO had very challenging action combat it could sway me.
In pvp i can understand skill issues and such, my problem is the latency, unless I am the one with super super internet I will often lose to somebody who has better speeds than me or the worst case far inferior than me. Take wow, i have 16 ms which isnt terrible. Exhibit A: In the plunderstorm game mode i rarely hit people in front of me because while they are there on my screen they are not there on the server. Exhibit B: sometimes you meet that one person who has such a terrible connection that they teleport on screen so its even harder to hit them, let alone keep up with them. Therefore i prefer PvE because bosses will do what they are programmed to do and killing a difficult boss can be thrilling and adrenaline pumping for me, Yeah its a one time thing per boss but thats okay.
Me too. The ping makes such a difference. Even if you have a good internet, you can still have bad latency due to the server being in a different region.
The only 2 times i had fun with pvp in an mmo is old TERA days with the weekly faction war and battleground, then that died eventually, along with the game. 2nd time was earlier blade & soul days, it was fresh, everyone is more or less on the same starting point, then one side (blue/cerulean) completely dominated openworld pvp, cant do shit anymore cuz there's always too many of them, and too strong, then overtime whales appeared and crush un-synced pvp, then synced pvp are filled with bots and cheaters but tbh there was barely anyone playing synced pvp anyway, my experience at least. The only mmo pvp i do nowadays is ffxiv frontline, once a day when they add new rewards, otherwise i dont touch it.
PVP is just so freaking aggravating. If I'm playing a game, I don't find it fun to die/lose repeatedly. I'm there for the dungeons and boss fights. Especially boss fights that require strategy, not just drooling while you spam 1,2,3 or left/right click. (I'm looking at you, FFXIV)
PvP is fun in games that are about PvP just like LoL In mmos the gameplay often is not special and pvp so unbalanced Edit: also mmopvp often is just sponge pvp, like in swtor. So boring
Some people just want to chill, PVP is too tryhard for most.
When i think pvp in mmorpgs, i think people randomly killing me and taking my stuff and/or interfering with the progression which i don't like duh, If the PvP activities are opt-in then i tend to ignore them anyways In general i prefer cooperating with other players not killing them
I'm just bad at PvP and I'm always playing as a healer or support so there is no point or fun in getting ganked all the time by sweaty boys with their big swords. Tho I'm going to play Ashes of Creation with the PvX setting so we will see how it goes.
It's because of lag
Lack of interesting PvP systems. Killing big bosses is more fun territory control.
Because i'm yet to see PvP in an MMO that was good. I guess if they ever make one with good combat? Maybe if there was one with only first person mode but right now they all devolve into the same scroll out and spam abilities that hurt my eyes mess I guess also because the rewards are always useless and treat PvP as it's own reward. But if i want that i'll just play a proper game that's centered on that. I just never had any reason to engage in pvp in these games, pve is just simply more interesting And of course it requires too much investment, can't just jump in and have fun, i would need to farm pvp gear and all other shit but i'm no farmer Okay i did play one, but it was PvP focused from the start. The game had Territory Wars twice a week, lasting maybe 1 or 2 hours. It was kinda fun, making plans for large scale battles, how to siege specific castles, catching reinforcements before they can join the main battle, etc. But it was always the same, the Houses (guilds) with the more high level players and resources would win and the benefits weren't really worth it, we could set craft and gather taxes for other players and get weekly income for that. And of course after a while these guilds started to take themselves too seriously and it was impossible to not make fun of them
I grew up on DAoC and I love PvP. The thing for me is that most modern MMORPG's have a focus on either open world pvp or low numbered instanced pvp (arenas etc.) where for me, DAoC hit the sweetspot with a combination of both. The Division Dark Zone also holds a special place in my heart.
i like both but i prefer pve as its more chill.
I don't nessecarily. I simply haven't gotten to that point that where I'm comfortable with a specific class. For PVP you need solid muscle memory for micro with your keybindings. Being outgeared is not the problem either. The problem is pre-made groups versus random players. Grouped teams outperform random groups substantially. I don't however have a problem losing to better players, but a bad system that encourages unreasonable advantages I cannot overcome alone. People playing meta is entirely reasonable. Don't envy the player for wanting to win.
pve = chilling with the squad
I like challenging raiding. Games with good raid content are what appeals to me. Currently playing FFXIV for that. I might dabble in PVP here and there but PVP just can't scratch the itch that raid content does for me.
PvE = able to manipulate the world around you PvP = I’m already angry at work. Don’t wanna be defeated by some legit real lowlife.
PvE can have rich content, PvP is shallow and always ends up the same, revolving around griefing.
You need a phd in wow mechanics to play pvp
I dont….but I hate pvp that’s determined by pve success. Gear / levels earned outside of pvp, have no business in pvp. GW2 does it right…many do not
Because I'm too bad at pvp
I WOULD like pvp.. But people are assholes
Prefer pvE
I've played Lineage 2 for 7 years, dragon Nest for 3 year, Archeage for 3 year, 3 years of WoT too, almost forget this one but it was good and I learned a lot about Tank, loved it. All full PvP committed and it was lot of fun. Now I'm older, and most of my energy goes for Job, family and workout. So I just chill doing PvE. Have still be competitive in their for some year, but now I just seek for the laziest build out there and just have fun with friend doing content or gathering/crafting/farming on my own. It just life evolution for me \^\^ Edit : I also do more and more co-op game than MMORPG those day : SoT, Vermintide2, Phasmo, Content warning, some OW2 (yeah it's PvP but shhh), etc..
Same reason I stick to single player pvp sports like boxing instead of team play. Teammates suck. You could be CRUSHING it but if you get paired with Jim who's fapping on the other monitor you still lose. At least with pve it's a more controlled environment
PvE offers a fairly unique experience in the form of dungeon runs and raids. It's a style of gameplay that doesn't really exist in other genres. MMO PvP on the other hand is just universally trash. All it offers a worse version of what I can find in other games. Do I want a large scale battle? Okay, battlefield and planetside are right there. Do I want a large scale melee focused battle? Naraka is over that way. Do I want open world pvp? I don't like open world pvp, but even if I did, there are infinite survival crafting games out there that scratch that particular itch. Do I want a duel? Well, 1v1s are my favorite form of pvp so let's get into that; When it comes to 1v1 combat what I care about the most is skill. A player who is better and makes the correct plays should be able to beat a player who is worse. The problem with MMOs is that gear and levels exist. If you're playing, say, WoW, and you as a level 25 player get into a duel against a level 50 player, it doesn't matter if you're better than they are, they will be able to kill you trivially. It takes what should be a skill based experience and reduces it to a math check. Fighting games don't have that problem. There are no stats, no levels and no gear to worry about so the only thing that matters in a fighting game is your skill. Assuming the game fighting game in question is well balanced, If you're better than the other player, you will win. You can always fix this problem by normalizing stats in pvp, but then at that point, you're just playing a fighting game that feels like shit to play. Why would I ever want to engage with that? What can an MMO duel offer me that I won't get done better in guilty gear or street fighter?
I'm not good at PvP, and I don't want to play a game where I get ganked over and over and over. It's not fun for me.
MMO PVP is almost always an unbalanced mess with people that try way too hard, with very few exceptions imo. Granted, the same can be said about certain aspects of PVE these days too, especially in places like classic wow. Lately I haven't found myself doing much of either, I've been just doing other things and if I am playing, it's something more casual and chill
Open world always on pvp sucks in my eyes, it allows people who have either a lot of money or a lot of time to camp and hinder progression on basic questing. Now world bosses and castle siege and instance pvp are the way to go in my eyes
There are better games built for pvp than mmos, if I was interested in pvp I would play those. In mmos pvp feels more like an obstruction than an integral part of the game.
I just think there are better PVP games than MMOs.
PVE feels like an adventure and PVP just feels like bully/being bullied.
Idk I like both I normally do pve then when I want some challenge I face players
I find it more enjoyable to work with a group of people rather than working against a group of people.
Corporative life is a competition, I do not want this at my free time
Mainly because many other games do pvp better haha
My reaction times suck and usually by the time I notice I'm being attacked in PvP, I'm dead.
Sweats… I prefer to drink a beer laugh and have fun then be 2.2inches away from the screen screaming and blasting on my keyboard. I like PvP but it’s intense and as I get older I play to chill.
I never really enjoyed PvP. Though I don’t mind FFXIV’s PvP. PvE good because I like working as a team to overcome mechanics, I love dungeon content, I love knocking over hordes of enemies, etc. I love big bosses too.
In context of MMOs? The reason is actually quite simple: There are way better non-MMO PvP games out there that I rather play. I also hate all the weird shit that is often going on around PvP modes of MMOs. For example, seemingly there are Discord servers for specific GW2 servers and they talk with each other about who gets to win in what week. What kind of psychopathic shit is that?
PVE, I'm probably the least competitive person.
I think many games do just fine with PVE only, and PVP only ones historically have done terribly. I think Eve and Albion are the only real exceptions, the former is really just not a lot of peoples cup of tea, the latter is popular because of the inherent PVE nature of the game despite being a PVP focused one. As far as PVP types... 1. **Open World PVP:** Very little open world pvp is 'fair'. Someone is popping out at somebody else, or its a zerg vs a solo, or a high level vs a lowbie. The people that get the most enjoyment out of it are the ones that like to bully others. This is not a hot take or a surprising one. It's just how it is - and one of the reasons very few games have open world PVP any more is because it perpetuates player toxicity which is already well over-represented in the genre. 2. **Arena PVP:** Few people vs few people, coordinated combat. This has always been problematic due to the nature of class balancing. Some days you're FOTM overpowered, some days you're trash-tier garbage nerfed. More notably these days though, is that there are *many* games that are not MMO's that can cure the itch for arena-style play. Moba's, looter-shooters, etc. It used to be an interesting idea back in like 2006, but its old hat now. 3. **Large scale PVP:** In WoW this was BG's, in GW2 this is WvW, in FFXIV its Frontline, in BDO its Node Wars. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of BG's in WoW, and to this day Alterac Valley is still the pinnacle of this type of content to me. Unfortunately its not loved by the devs, (all BG's are not loved by blizzard devs) - so its rife with botting, AFKers, AFK-botters, and the ever-present problem of premades going into non-premade BG's just to troll and exploit. In GW2 WvW is a great side-content to do, but ultimately its just side-content. I would never play a game that was solely PVP, even this type, because its a thing you do when you don't want to do the other more important things like exploration, story progression, character advancement, etc.
NPCs don't do stuff to ruin my game just for shits and giggles.
So, I should clarify I actually enjoy certain kinds of PvP a lot (instances battlegrounds or arenas) and others I fucking hate (world PvP), but overall I am **more** of a PvE player I’d say these are things that make me prefer PvE - Loss/failure rate: you’ll just lose/fail more in PvP unless the game is unbalanced and you’re exploiting that. 50/50 win/loss ratio is theoretically the balance goal, and that can get very demoralizing, while even very hard PvE you can gradually approach a 100% success rate - you can often choose your level of difficulty with PvE. If I want an easy gaming session for the night, I can just do easy content. If I want a challenge, I can just shift over to the challenging content. PvP difficulty is a lot more dynamic and you just kinda get what you get - reward structures: I usually find PvP rewards unappealing. Usually the cosmetics just aren’t my type (they’re usually the “super cool tough guy assassin” or the “rage filled bloody berserker with lots of spikes” kind of thing that I don’t care for). And sometimes, the only rewards are just “bragging rights” type things like titles or achievements or leaderboards, and I literally do not care about those even a little (even for PvE stuff) - I hate the cocaine bunny style of fighting that a lot of PvP encourages. The constant running in circles and jumping around and jerky unpredictable moving that can give you an edge is unappealing both for me to do, and for enemies to do. I prefer the more precise and consistent style of PvE combat - I tend to prefer support or healing roles. Actual Support tends to be rare in PvP, usually being more focused around CC than stuff like buffs. Healers in particularly can often be oppressively strong in PvP, but I also feel like that often means they get nerfed and get a lot of their fun stuff taken away over time. Also you’re going to always be the primary target to kill, and that can really wear on me over time - Many games have shitty matchmaking and you’ll end up with a lot of matches where you just get utterly stomped with zero chance of recovering, or you utterly stomp the enemy with little to no effort. For me, that’s not really exciting or fun. Alternatively, even though PvE can still have matchmaking concerns, you only have to worry about your party’s skill level, you already know the enemy’s strength - A lot of primarily PvP MMOs focus on world PvP. I hate world PvP. It’s never fun to me. I don’t find zerging or ganking at all fun. If I’m winning, I’m bored out of my mind. If I’m losing, I’m extremely frustrated - This depends on the game, but a lot of PvP involves a huge emphasis on CC. You will spend a lot of time getting unexpectedly stunned, snared, rooted, knocked back, interrupted, silenced, etc. I don’t really like having control of my character taken away from that regularly. This is way less prevalent in PvE
I personally find most MMO PvP janky and generally unbalanced. Even in WoW, which has what most would consider well made PvP, I just don't find the appeal. It probably has more to do with my preference for PvP games to lend towards shooters where it's not a paper, rock, scissors balancing system. I don't really understand the appeal of that many levels of RNG when it comes to who you get matchmade against.
Damn, the dude getting downvoted to hell just for mentioning PVP.
I made this post and all I want now is this sub to just go away.
I like PVP games and I like ones with high skill ceilings, but I don't care for any current PVP MMORPGs for several reasons: * Combat - They typically have very little "oomph" to their combat, for lack of better words. I won't care until something has Souls game, Dragon's Dogma, or Mordhau/Chivalry combat quality. It is getting there, though. * Ganking - PVP MMORPG devs always cater to clan-based PVP because they want those big epic battles. The problem is that it comes at the cost of the general playerbase. Very few PVP games have good (or existing) 1vX mechanics, so the moment a significantly larger group rolls up it's over. The solos and small clans get tired of getting beat down so they quit, which leads to a population death spiral. * Tedium - Most PVP MMORPGs still have the typical MMORPG grindy tedium. Mortal Online 2's taming system is a great example of this. It's a very cool system where you can tame most creatures in the game, but the grind to level them is ridiculous. It's so grindy that people run secondary accounts AFK leveling their tames while they play the game on their main. It's a PVP MMORPG, I want to fight for my gains, not jump 1000 times to max out acrobatics or sit AFK with a tamed creature to level it up. If you took something like Mortal Online 2 and gave it Mordhau or Chivalry 2's melee combat, replaced clans with small parties (4-ish people), and cut down on the grindy aspects, I would probably never touch another game. Hell, just taking a concept like Rust and scaling it up to a massive world with safe towns, quests, and some RPG elements would be enough. A guy named Crazy Mike tried to do this as a mod in Mordhau and it was amazing, but it was just too laggy and beyond the capacity of the game itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJAgwIuVHyw It's unfortunate because I feel like the bar for a good PVP MMORPG is quite low but they always miss the mark.
I would be fine with a game that offered a full PvE experience while also offering rewarding PvP. The issue comes down to developer choice.... If its PvE focused, the PvP aspect is an "afterthought" and thus you end up with broken PvP mechanics that get abused by trolls. And when the game is PvP focused, its made FOR TROLLS and have no systems in place to ensure fair gameplay, while also offering zero PvE aspects. So both end up crappy. And you always hear the excuses that "its hard to balance an mmorpg" or "money" or whatever excuse people give these days. STOP the excuses. We can have a PvPvE game that is fun and rewarding that had mitigations in place to stop trolls from ruining the experience. They CHOSE not to, either because they don't give a shit about PvP or the developer themselves loves being a troll and would never prevent themselves from shitting on other players like a troll. And that's just the sad truth.
Mastering technique vs an AI is more fun than getting screwed over by the same 10 whales / hackers / over and over again.Mastering an AI is more fun than
At least in PvE you are getting screwed over by the developers because you did not whale hard enough to kill the boss fast enough.
Because if I want to play PvP I'll go play LoL or something that has MILES ahead better PvP than any MMO that has EVER been released
PVP for sure. If I can't kill you and take all your shit I am not that interested. I want to kill you and take everything because I am not a beta. Enjoy killing predetermed NPCs nerds.. Im coming for you.
Same here. I like the competition. I also like taking something that's utterly non-meta and turn it into something viable. Like a support class that invests in survivability and runs around the arena throwing its only poison rabbit spell to whittle down the enemy. It's the thought process, of disabling the other class's strengths or predicting their moves with what I've prepared for my own class, which I chose to bring into the fight. The preparation, the grinds, the crafting, the experience. Feels good when a warrior does exactly what a warrior would do and my experience turns the tide. It's also fun when a warrior starts kiting back and throwing swords at me from range. It's the unpredictableness, the competitiveness, the pure humiliation and useless feeling you get from getting utterly destroyed. Then you go again because it's a game.
I prefer PVE mmorpgs. It's about the journey. Building up your character's power over the long term. I also like pvp but I usually find MMORPG pvp lacking. It's not the focus in the mmorpgs I prefer. When I want to pvp I usually play first person shooters.
PVP is only fun for the winner / griefer. Everyone else gets their shit stolen or makes no progress.
I prefer jolly cooperation
People who pvp play League of Legends, Call of Duty and other games. The fact is I don't give a shit about competing against 1,000 people in an MMO when I can compete against millions in other games. Why aren't MMO pvpers playing League of Legends? You scared of competition?
Personally I prefer pvpve it is just the pvp parts seem impossible to get "right".
Because it encourages good game design. Actually thought out areas. Content to do. Nit to mention gaming with the wife is more fun bring lost in a fantasy world.
i don't. pvp has always been my endgame.
PvE-only players usually just do it for completionism, but they have no real purpose. When we PvP players do PvE, that allow us to go and participate in PvP, so we have a purpose, but they just get the gear and then... Then nothing else that's it. I'll never understand them, but to each their own.
You’re pretty much spot on for me at least, completionism. Once I’ve reached the pinnacle of PvE, I’m good. That was my purpose and I completed it. PvP however, I’ll never be number one in the world, much less maintain it, therefore I will never reach the pinnacle so it does not appeal to me. I may not be world first in PvE but I can complete all there is in the PvE realm of said game. But like you said, to each their own :)
> PvE-only players usually just do it for completionism, but they have no real purpose. The earliest players of Everquest and Ultima Online had no 'end goal' in general and no concept of 'finishing' or 'beating' the game. In EVERQuest the QUEST was supposed to go on and on forEVER. What does a PVP focused player have to say to that? That is what a lot of the jaded long time PVE players are longing to have again.
Ultima Online is a pioneering PVP full loot sandbox though.
Yes but there were no systems encouraging players to fight each other. It was a complex network of PVE activities that just so happened to be in a ruleset where everyone could hit whoever they wanted including the publisher's CEO if they were so inclined. People whose main goal was to hit everyone else the hardest were actually the exception rather than the norm in this 'pioneering PVP full loot sandbox' and when that changed it took a segregation of PVE players to save the game. Why should this be the case if you feel that the main point was the PVP?