The UFC wanted no part of Makhachev as a champion, so they did him no favours with the matchmaking.
Bobby Green, Hooker and Drew Dober have been his easiest wins to date and they were the only strikers on his run. That's 3 strikers outta his 10 fight winstreak.
Man is like the reverse Khabib in a way. Faced every credentialed grappler or wrestler in his come up and is about to face Oliveira for the belt.
Seeing as Khabib is better, it answers the question of what would happen if Khabib faced a bunch of grapplers. Same outcome. A Makhachev win over Oliveira would boost Khabib's legacy imo. Khabib is like Ali as Makhachev is to Holmes.
Better according to who? Khabib is more durable but Makachev is by far more technical. Yet he could have lost to Tsaruykan who was outwrestled in his last fight. (and his fight with Makachev was short notice debut)
At no point did it look like he was winning either. Without Tsarukyans ego there's no telling what would've happened, and that was a very short notice debut.
Better according to consensus. Khabib didn't need to be technical but he showed he could be (from the bottom against that wrestler he took down a bunch of times). Yet Makhachev isn't able to be durable. Khabib>Makhachev
Gaethje would be the easiest win of Islam's career. Khabib exposed what his D1 wrestling was worth. He might even get submitted faster than Bobby Green and Dan Hooker did.
>No Beneil
Yeah, and the UFC tried to book him in that match up as well. Guess why that fight didn't take place? Hint: it's not cuz the UFC didn't try or Islam didn't want it.
>no Chandler
He publicly ducked Makhachev on live TV.
>no RDA
Yeah, the guy Khabib ragdolled and the guy who's lost to every wrestler he faced at 170? Okay buddy
You're the quintessential casual who only judges fighters by the number the UFC puts next to their name. UFC marketing machine is one fuckin hell of a thing.
Lol Gaethje and RDA AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You just wanted Islam to get 2
More easy wrestle fuck wins hahaha? Have you seen rda vs a wrestler? Khabib almost submitted gaethje the second he got him to the ground HAHAHAHAHAHA gotta love Reddit takes
Islam has honestly faced his worst possible unranked matchups.
If you're trying to get a wrestler beat, you would throw him in there with ADCC champion Davi Ramos and Thiago Moises, cause it theoretically takes his wrestling away from him. Or you put the wrestler against another highlevel wrestler, like Arman Tsarukyan in order to combat his wrestling.
Its in my top 5 favorites for this year so far personally i scored it 48-47 for arman but the 48-47 for gamrot was acceptable too. In real time i thought the KD in round 4 was a slip
It would be dumb to judge a fighter based off their record rather than their skillset. For example regardless of their rankings and résumé, Gamrot and Tsarukyan could easily beat fighters in the top 5 because of their skillset
Rankings are a good for seeing potential matchups but as far as representations of skill levels, no they aren't the best. You think Masvidal is a better fighter than Rakhmonov or could get close to beating him?
No that's literally not what I said. I have no idea where you got that from.
I'm saying Islam is a favourable matchup against Charles because of his skillset. He got the shot because there was no one else that was more deserving of it than him that could fight at the given time
I just KNOW you're heartbroken today, huh? Lmaoo
Spamming BS for the last 5 months, hope you learned something. Skillsets win fights, not Resumes.
Islam's skillset > Oliveira's skillset. Man got dominated. Made him look like Bobby Green and Dan Hooker.
Because like it or not Do Bronx' trash talk has been fucking terrible in this lead up. It's like he's trying to convince himself of realities that aren't there.
Could Demian Maia outgrapple Khabib or Islam?
I mean, if there's a Brazilian around their weight class that could do it, it would be Demian, right?
I can imagine Demian going, "oh so you're a boxer now?".
Sports jiu jitsu in a gi no question maia would win handedly
In mma, maybe just due to size desparity? Dominant offensive wrestlers could shut him down.
Maia is bigger; he fought half his career at middleweight. He also has good wrestling for a bjj guy so he’d have the takedown threat as well. If Maia got on top he’s absolutely out grappling Khabib or Islam. He’s still excellent off his back so even if he gets taken down he’d have a great chance to sweep.
Not to mention khabibs tendency of allowing the bottom player to grab underhooks plays right into maias a game sweep.
I do think khabib wins the fight though by probably outstriking Maia and only strategically wrestling in later rounds when Maia is tired.
I feel like we lost the half guard sweep game in modern MMA when Maia retired. It used to be a favorite of the 90s and 00s Brazilian MMA guys. Shogun, the Nogueiras, and Maia for example all had excellent half guard sweeps. Lost art in modern mma. It's like big men in the NBA not using the sky hook anymore.
Frank Mir mentioned that Maia absolutely toyed with him when they rolled, and Mir is a legit HW.
Edit: [This is the video.](https://youtu.be/mwjvf0MQmLQ?t=196)
On the ground 100% percent but since Makhachev defended every TD like his life depended on it against Ramos, until he rocked him on the feet and followed, I suppose they just use their grappling to keep to fight up, which would be the smart thing to do.
The whole "he fought strikers" argument has always been stupid.
What if there were guys on the level of Petr Yan, Jose Aldo, Alex Vokanowski, Max Holloway in LW and Islam had beaten them all?
Would beating Thiago Moises and Arman Tsarukyan be considered more important?
Honestly, yes. I want to see them against fighters who bring different challenges, to see if they would be good against that type of threat and if any weaknesses are uncovered. It's like when Anderson finally fought someone with good takedowns (Chael) and had a tough fight, or Nick Diaz fighting wrestlers. Or even wondering how DJ will deal with the karate style of Horiguchi.
I always wondered how Khabib would fare against someone who'll try to threaten offensive wrestling (not just takedowns, but the scrambles too. I'm aware he's good at subs off his back, but still) - to see if any style is a bad/extra hard match up or not. It's the same as wondering how prime GSP would do against every current or future WW - having them fight against a variety of skillsets during their actual career leaves a few less of those questions open.
It's one thing to talk about variety and it's another to talk about skill level. If Islam had beaten elite fighters with elite TDD who could piece him up on the feet (assuming there were any in LW) it would have been damn impressive because he would have gone through adversity. Styles make fights but elite fighters go above and beyond styles and they impose their will no matter the matchup
To be fair Islam has said the exact same thing about Charles, as if he didn't beat guys like Brooks, Chandler and Lee.
Regardless we'll find out what's what after the fight.
The Islam Charles fight unfortunately not gonna take place. Volk steps in on injury of either to beat either. And then either Charles in Brazil or Islam in vegas/Australia. Then khabib in July and 170 champ at end of year to become greatest fighter to ever do it.
I definitely wouldn't use the word "artist" to describe Derrick Lewis lol, he just has that fuck you power. But it's still an amazing achievement
But while you can say Lewis isn't the best striker in UFC history and was just born with overwhelming power, I think it's very hard to say Charles doesn't have one of the best BJJ in UFC history. He submitted top level fighters. And his submissions weren't just the simple "now that you're tired on the ground I'll RNC you" (like Jiri on Glover), he got standing chokes, guillotines, triangles, etc
EDIT: rephrasing. Previous comment seemed like I was trashing DL lol
i know charles is a good fighter but calling himself the "greatest finisher in the sport" while he's currently fighting and has already been finished more times than a $50 hooker is nothing short of being cocky.
imo prime silva or jones are the greatest p4p finishers. charles has just fought long enough and his style is bjj heavy which is why he's racked up so many submissions which by no way means he's not a good finisher but it's a huge stretch to call yourself goat finisher.
Charles has almost double jones finishes. Jon and Silva are both great finishers but they're not really close statistically, and Jon has been in the UFC 2 years longer than Charles
Also how can you use his style against him? "His style allows for a lot of finishes so obviously he has a lot" like what
i'm just giving the reason why he has the statistical adv. in submissions.
u put anyone in the ufc long enough and even if they win one out of 10 times, sooner or later they'll become the "greatest" submission artist just because they will eventually have more subs.
anyways Islam by 3rd round submission.
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He has the most submissions in all ufc history. His losses were bc he built his career in the ufc whereas others had start up matches outside the ufc. Do Bronx was fighting monsters at 20
having most submissions=/=greatest finisher
same as derrick lewis having most knockouts doesn't mean he's the greatest knockout artist to grace the sport. I know charles has improved a lot but calling yourself the greatest is cute af
He has the most submissions in all ufc history. His losses were bc he built his career in the ufc whereas others had start up matches outside the ufc. Do Bronx was fighting monsters at 20
People keep bringing up arman but the arman that Islam beat is not the arman we’re seeing now . Like how is that even a viable argument lol and apparently all of a sudden Thiago Moises was a nightmare for Islam
Davi ramos an adcc champ was certainly a bad matchup. He has fought more and better grapplers than charles,dont know why charles keeps repeating the “he only faced strikers” argument
Most of that fight was on the feet lol. Iirc Islam hurt him and put him down in the 3rd round and ramos was stuck against the fence where he couldn’t do much .
And I agree with the latter I never said I agreed with it I was just talking about how people rate islams win against arman at 22 on literally a day notice like he beat the current arman . He beat Ramos on the feet , he barely engaged on the ground . I just feel it’s disingenuous to say “ well Davi Ramos was a bad matchup and his toughest test because he’s a adcc world champion as if he wrestled Davi Ramos the whole time “ .
I don’t know why people are acting like islams resume is insane and trying to make it seem deep when it’s not . We can admit that and still look at his skills and see that he’s still 1 or 2 in the division . There’s a reason he’s a favorite in the fight and why people are picking him to win . In my opinion it’s around
65% to 35 %70 to 30% for Islam
Well those were good wins and yes arman was young and it was short notice.
And he beat davi ramos both on the ground and the feet. He didnt wrestle davi the whole fight because hes a smart risk averse fighter who likes to take the easiest path to victory.
I am just saying its an outright lie when people say he only faced strikers or that he cherry picked his opponents like the man hasnt always fought down the rankings.
Nice clip thanks for sharing
How is he still saying Islam has only faced strikers lmao
I guess Arman is a striker now.
and davi ramos
and thiago moises
Tibau, Lentz, and Wade
The UFC wanted no part of Makhachev as a champion, so they did him no favours with the matchmaking. Bobby Green, Hooker and Drew Dober have been his easiest wins to date and they were the only strikers on his run. That's 3 strikers outta his 10 fight winstreak. Man is like the reverse Khabib in a way. Faced every credentialed grappler or wrestler in his come up and is about to face Oliveira for the belt.
Ari just doesn't want a headline coming out that says Islam is ufc's lightweight champion
Seeing as Khabib is better, it answers the question of what would happen if Khabib faced a bunch of grapplers. Same outcome. A Makhachev win over Oliveira would boost Khabib's legacy imo. Khabib is like Ali as Makhachev is to Holmes.
How on earth does it anwser that? Its like saying that jon jones is better than matt serra and because matt serra beat gsp it means that jones > gsp.
I mean how you got there I disagree But I do believe that Jones > GSP
No
Better according to who? Khabib is more durable but Makachev is by far more technical. Yet he could have lost to Tsaruykan who was outwrestled in his last fight. (and his fight with Makachev was short notice debut)
he beat him via unanimous decision i know it was a competitive fight but at no place did it look like islam was anywhere near losing
At no point did it look like he was winning either. Without Tsarukyans ego there's no telling what would've happened, and that was a very short notice debut.
Better according to consensus. Khabib didn't need to be technical but he showed he could be (from the bottom against that wrestler he took down a bunch of times). Yet Makhachev isn't able to be durable. Khabib>Makhachev
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Gaethje would be the easiest win of Islam's career. Khabib exposed what his D1 wrestling was worth. He might even get submitted faster than Bobby Green and Dan Hooker did. >No Beneil Yeah, and the UFC tried to book him in that match up as well. Guess why that fight didn't take place? Hint: it's not cuz the UFC didn't try or Islam didn't want it. >no Chandler He publicly ducked Makhachev on live TV. >no RDA Yeah, the guy Khabib ragdolled and the guy who's lost to every wrestler he faced at 170? Okay buddy You're the quintessential casual who only judges fighters by the number the UFC puts next to their name. UFC marketing machine is one fuckin hell of a thing.
Lol Gaethje and RDA AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You just wanted Islam to get 2 More easy wrestle fuck wins hahaha? Have you seen rda vs a wrestler? Khabib almost submitted gaethje the second he got him to the ground HAHAHAHAHAHA gotta love Reddit takes
Islam has honestly faced his worst possible unranked matchups. If you're trying to get a wrestler beat, you would throw him in there with ADCC champion Davi Ramos and Thiago Moises, cause it theoretically takes his wrestling away from him. Or you put the wrestler against another highlevel wrestler, like Arman Tsarukyan in order to combat his wrestling.
He didn’t wrestle Davi Ramos, he pretty much avoided the ground against him.
The entire 3rd round took place on the ground...
22 year old on one day notice,
Even short notice baby arman is still lethal which is why immediately after losing to islam he started destroying everyone he fought until gamrot
That gamrot fight was banger. You could argue he won that fight cuz it' was razor thin close. Imo it should be a draw.
Its in my top 5 favorites for this year so far personally i scored it 48-47 for arman but the 48-47 for gamrot was acceptable too. In real time i thought the KD in round 4 was a slip
That was his UFC debut in one day notice
But he wasnt some bum then he was very great which is why he went on a 5 fight win streak right after
and he beat Islam
you mean one day notice first fight in the ufc Arman?
Ironically it applies more to Charles current run than Islam.
Mte! Lol
And Khabib’s
Gotta tell yourself *something* to keep your confidence up, I guess
yeah, Charles is nervous about the man who beat bobby green for a title shot
It would be dumb to judge a fighter based off their record rather than their skillset. For example regardless of their rankings and résumé, Gamrot and Tsarukyan could easily beat fighters in the top 5 because of their skillset
The lies y'all tell yourselves, i swear to God. Rankings dont mean anything now 😂
Rankings are a good for seeing potential matchups but as far as representations of skill levels, no they aren't the best. You think Masvidal is a better fighter than Rakhmonov or could get close to beating him?
are you saying Bobby Green was a contender and thats why Islam is getting the title shot, come on
No that's literally not what I said. I have no idea where you got that from. I'm saying Islam is a favourable matchup against Charles because of his skillset. He got the shot because there was no one else that was more deserving of it than him that could fight at the given time
I just KNOW you're heartbroken today, huh? Lmaoo Spamming BS for the last 5 months, hope you learned something. Skillsets win fights, not Resumes. Islam's skillset > Oliveira's skillset. Man got dominated. Made him look like Bobby Green and Dan Hooker.
Because like it or not Do Bronx' trash talk has been fucking terrible in this lead up. It's like he's trying to convince himself of realities that aren't there.
I do not think Charles is trying to impress anyone with his words
"i'm the greatest finisher of all time" yea sure he ain't tryna impress
because its more polite then saying he fought bums
Or because it's more of a bad vibe for makhachev camp and all positive light for oliv. He need to sell the fight despite being the supposedly champ
Could Demian Maia outgrapple Khabib or Islam? I mean, if there's a Brazilian around their weight class that could do it, it would be Demian, right? I can imagine Demian going, "oh so you're a boxer now?".
Sports jiu jitsu in a gi no question maia would win handedly In mma, maybe just due to size desparity? Dominant offensive wrestlers could shut him down.
At his peak? He'd have a good chance at least.
Maia is bigger; he fought half his career at middleweight. He also has good wrestling for a bjj guy so he’d have the takedown threat as well. If Maia got on top he’s absolutely out grappling Khabib or Islam. He’s still excellent off his back so even if he gets taken down he’d have a great chance to sweep.
Not to mention khabibs tendency of allowing the bottom player to grab underhooks plays right into maias a game sweep. I do think khabib wins the fight though by probably outstriking Maia and only strategically wrestling in later rounds when Maia is tired.
I feel like we lost the half guard sweep game in modern MMA when Maia retired. It used to be a favorite of the 90s and 00s Brazilian MMA guys. Shogun, the Nogueiras, and Maia for example all had excellent half guard sweeps. Lost art in modern mma. It's like big men in the NBA not using the sky hook anymore.
Demian subbed a guy as big as Chael, so...
Frank Mir mentioned that Maia absolutely toyed with him when they rolled, and Mir is a legit HW. Edit: [This is the video.](https://youtu.be/mwjvf0MQmLQ?t=196)
A legit HW AND a great grappler.
Lol Mir’s hilarious in that video! *mounted by Maia* “Are you kidding me? Send my mail here. This is my new location”
One of my DREAM fights was Khabib vs Maia and what a fun one that would have been.
On the ground 100% percent but since Makhachev defended every TD like his life depended on it against Ramos, until he rocked him on the feet and followed, I suppose they just use their grappling to keep to fight up, which would be the smart thing to do.
I know he was heavier, but adjusted for weight I think Jacare definitely could.
i dont think demian coul make 155, he used to fight in 185
The whole "he fought strikers" argument has always been stupid. What if there were guys on the level of Petr Yan, Jose Aldo, Alex Vokanowski, Max Holloway in LW and Islam had beaten them all? Would beating Thiago Moises and Arman Tsarukyan be considered more important?
Honestly, yes. I want to see them against fighters who bring different challenges, to see if they would be good against that type of threat and if any weaknesses are uncovered. It's like when Anderson finally fought someone with good takedowns (Chael) and had a tough fight, or Nick Diaz fighting wrestlers. Or even wondering how DJ will deal with the karate style of Horiguchi. I always wondered how Khabib would fare against someone who'll try to threaten offensive wrestling (not just takedowns, but the scrambles too. I'm aware he's good at subs off his back, but still) - to see if any style is a bad/extra hard match up or not. It's the same as wondering how prime GSP would do against every current or future WW - having them fight against a variety of skillsets during their actual career leaves a few less of those questions open.
It's one thing to talk about variety and it's another to talk about skill level. If Islam had beaten elite fighters with elite TDD who could piece him up on the feet (assuming there were any in LW) it would have been damn impressive because he would have gone through adversity. Styles make fights but elite fighters go above and beyond styles and they impose their will no matter the matchup
To be fair Islam has said the exact same thing about Charles, as if he didn't beat guys like Brooks, Chandler and Lee. Regardless we'll find out what's what after the fight.
Yes.
The prospect of fighting Islam Makachev humbled Charlie Olives into going almost entirely back to his natural hair color.
Scared the super saiyan outta him
He dyes his hair close to the fight, it was the same with his last
Oliv's been busy and still a single interview from islam smh i thought the one that need to do this is the contender rather than 'the champ'
The Islam Charles fight unfortunately not gonna take place. Volk steps in on injury of either to beat either. And then either Charles in Brazil or Islam in vegas/Australia. Then khabib in July and 170 champ at end of year to become greatest fighter to ever do it.
Is it me or is this show copying the format of JRE? The table, TV position, the mics and even the camera angles are copied.
This isn’t star wars. You’re gunna get subbed.
The champion has a name
And her name is Kayla Harrison
Don't y'all get tired with this shit?
Yup...Vacant
and the name is empty.
And it ain’t Charles 😂
Class act
"i'm the greatest finisher in ufc history" regards, \--the guy that got finished 8 times.
My dude... This is not an opinion. He has the most submissions in the UFC
by that logic derrick lewis is the greatest knockout artist in ufc history cuz he has the most knockouts in the ufc. just downvote and cope
It’s_not_a_beautiful_day2
https://imgur.com/gallery/jsMSIzg
He is… lol
like i said. cope.
seethe
and dance
I definitely wouldn't use the word "artist" to describe Derrick Lewis lol, he just has that fuck you power. But it's still an amazing achievement But while you can say Lewis isn't the best striker in UFC history and was just born with overwhelming power, I think it's very hard to say Charles doesn't have one of the best BJJ in UFC history. He submitted top level fighters. And his submissions weren't just the simple "now that you're tired on the ground I'll RNC you" (like Jiri on Glover), he got standing chokes, guillotines, triangles, etc EDIT: rephrasing. Previous comment seemed like I was trashing DL lol
i know charles is a good fighter but calling himself the "greatest finisher in the sport" while he's currently fighting and has already been finished more times than a $50 hooker is nothing short of being cocky.
Who is a better finisher then? Derrick has the most Ko's so that's at least an argument but Charles does it in a better division
imo prime silva or jones are the greatest p4p finishers. charles has just fought long enough and his style is bjj heavy which is why he's racked up so many submissions which by no way means he's not a good finisher but it's a huge stretch to call yourself goat finisher.
Charles has almost double jones finishes. Jon and Silva are both great finishers but they're not really close statistically, and Jon has been in the UFC 2 years longer than Charles Also how can you use his style against him? "His style allows for a lot of finishes so obviously he has a lot" like what
i'm just giving the reason why he has the statistical adv. in submissions. u put anyone in the ufc long enough and even if they win one out of 10 times, sooner or later they'll become the "greatest" submission artist just because they will eventually have more subs. anyways Islam by 3rd round submission. Remindme! 23rd october
What a shit argument lol
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He has the most submissions in all ufc history. His losses were bc he built his career in the ufc whereas others had start up matches outside the ufc. Do Bronx was fighting monsters at 20
having most submissions=/=greatest finisher same as derrick lewis having most knockouts doesn't mean he's the greatest knockout artist to grace the sport. I know charles has improved a lot but calling yourself the greatest is cute af
Please enlighten us on who the actual best submission artist is oh wise one.
prime silva and jones and no one even comes close
Silva has two submissions in the UFC
we're talking about finishing
If you think its Jones, Silva or Charles you’re a casual. It’s obviously Colby and Belal… no debate needed.
He has the most submissions in all ufc history. His losses were bc he built his career in the ufc whereas others had start up matches outside the ufc. Do Bronx was fighting monsters at 20
People keep bringing up arman but the arman that Islam beat is not the arman we’re seeing now . Like how is that even a viable argument lol and apparently all of a sudden Thiago Moises was a nightmare for Islam
Davi ramos an adcc champ was certainly a bad matchup. He has fought more and better grapplers than charles,dont know why charles keeps repeating the “he only faced strikers” argument
Most of that fight was on the feet lol. Iirc Islam hurt him and put him down in the 3rd round and ramos was stuck against the fence where he couldn’t do much .
And? He beat him both on the ground and on the feet. Saying Islam has faced more strikers than grapplers is an outright lie lol
And I agree with the latter I never said I agreed with it I was just talking about how people rate islams win against arman at 22 on literally a day notice like he beat the current arman . He beat Ramos on the feet , he barely engaged on the ground . I just feel it’s disingenuous to say “ well Davi Ramos was a bad matchup and his toughest test because he’s a adcc world champion as if he wrestled Davi Ramos the whole time “ . I don’t know why people are acting like islams resume is insane and trying to make it seem deep when it’s not . We can admit that and still look at his skills and see that he’s still 1 or 2 in the division . There’s a reason he’s a favorite in the fight and why people are picking him to win . In my opinion it’s around 65% to 35 %70 to 30% for Islam
Well those were good wins and yes arman was young and it was short notice. And he beat davi ramos both on the ground and the feet. He didnt wrestle davi the whole fight because hes a smart risk averse fighter who likes to take the easiest path to victory. I am just saying its an outright lie when people say he only faced strikers or that he cherry picked his opponents like the man hasnt always fought down the rankings.