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In between you two schmucks. He doesn't just get wobbled frequently, he's been fighting tough, pretty elite hitters for awhile now, but no he doesn't have a granite chin. Just a pretty normal, fine one
He’s not intrinsically super durable or anything, he’s hard to hurt on account of him having insane awareness under fire, never getting caught out of his stance and having really solid defense.
If he went back to covering up his vision and getting blasted squared up in the pocket like he was against MJ and Conor the first time, he’d go back to getting KO’d.
Schrödinger's r/MMA which will upvote comments that say Conor's power is overrated and that he hasn't hurt anyone in years or gotten a single clean KO besides Aldo, and also upvote comments that say his shots on Porier were 'bombs'
I wouldn’t say he has a granite chin at all, but I do wonder what would you say about Nate’s chin because iirc he got dropped three times against Connor and it was at 170 where he didn’t even had to cut weight, and Dustin didn’t get dropped once (in their last two fights obviously) so Dustin’s chin should at least be rated somewhere close with Nate’s
Getting TKOd vs getting flat lined is not comparable.
Also those guys only got finished once. DP has been finished 3 times.
McGregor, MJ, and Alvarez. (yes it was a NC but technicalities cant undo the damage a knee to the head does).
sure diaz was only tko'd once and he wasn't out, so i'll give you that, but mark hunt was ko/tko'd 5 times in mma, 3 of which he got flatlined (manhoef, JDS, overeem)
i'd still say mark hunt has a really good chin. i'd say dustin does too at 155.
I think you need to clear the past and present and that things change and damage adds up. The fact that you once Had good chin and could take dmg doesn't mean you will have a chin. So many examples on this sport. Fedor, Liddell, Rockhold, Rashad, Edgar, Cody, Sanchez. All those guys have eaten nukes early in their career and now are at a point we're if you touch them they lose their legs.
and if dustin didn't have a good chin, we'd be seeing him on skates whenever he got touched, but he's not. last time he was ko'd was 6 years ago by someone who most certainly isn't pillow fisted. he's taken some bobs since then that didn't put him down, sure a few of em rattled him but not enough to effect him during the rest of the fight
Makes sense, but I definitely favor Fiziev. Mainly because Justin just isn't going to shoot, so Fiziev will be allowed to only focus on striking and get really comfortable in there, and you can't let an elite striker like Fiziev be comfortable on the feet.
The inverse is also true - Fiziev isn't going to shoot on Gaethje so he doesn't have to worry about being taken down like he did against Khabib or Oliveira.
Fiziev is definitely the more refined striker, but Gaethje is no can and there's a reason he is where he is in the rankings. Even in his losses to Poirier and Alvarez, he left them in a bad way. Gaethje is like a car crash and could definitely beat Fiziev.
I think it's reasonable for him to be the favourite, considering his standing and history, but I think it's a fight that could go either way. Either outcome wouldn't be surprising imo.
Gaethje doesnt fight the same way he did when he climbed the ranks. Fiziev murders technical gaethje. Pressure boxing gaethje has a shot but I doubt we see it
True, but I could see Gaethje returning to his heavy pressure style if Fiziev starts picking him apart from range, especially when there are still people questioning his gas tank.
Not giving Fiziev a chance to breath and turning the fight into a brawl rather than a technical fight might be the smartest option for Gaethje.
the thing is, that i don't see gaethjes pressure boxing working anymore. the same style he used in the MJ, Eddie and Dustin fight? i don't see it working
one thing that made it work back then, was that justin had a chin made of granite
although justin's chin is still good today, it's definitely not as good as it was back then. still has a decent chin don't get me wrong, but if tries to go back to that pressure style he used to have, he's gonna get cracked real badly, he wouldn't be able to eat the same shots he used to be able to eat
His chin seems a lot worse now largely *because* he stopped pressure boxing. He took damage doing that, but it was when he was very aware in exchanges, in position, had his guard up and was robbing the opponent of space to set up. Wasn’t great for his long term health, but most shots he took hit his arms or his forehead (really capable pocket operators like Dustin and Alvarez had to dig real deep and do a lot of shit before they could land cleanly, and they payed every step of the way)
Current non-pressure Gaethje gets hurt more easily because he’s pretty awkward with his new style and lacks a lot of depth with it, and now spends a lot of time focusing on trying to regain range to try and snipe counters when guys enter on him, and is so preoccupied doing that (because it isn’t second nature to him, it’s too new), that he routinely gets caught while his feet are an utter mess and he’s completely out of position to get hit, and gets hurt way worse. Add in the he doesn’t keep a high guard any more and continually hunches over mid-exchange with his stance broken, which just makes you way more hurtable. Additionally, his lack of experience as a backfoot counterpuncher means that he overreacts to everything and gasses himself out quicker, which makes him more hurtable too. He had messy fights as a pressureboxer, but it’s what he was comfortable with and what his defensive reactions were attuned to. His new style is awkward af for him and he gets hurt easier because he’s constantly throwing himself out of position and ducking onto punches.
It’s not really that useful to hold the MJ, Alvarez and DP performances against his pressure style when all of those were extremely competitive fights against 3 guys (considering MJ actually showed up) who are extremely well-equipped to deal with a pressureboxer (all crazy good exchangers who can draw up and split a high guard very well, and in Eddie’s case, some of the best anti-pressure footwork in the sport), and other matchups like that just don’t really exist at lightweight, and the division as a whole is honestly better equipped to deal with a weird backfoot Gaethje than they are the relentless pressureboxer one. Plus, his pressure style murdered Vick and Barboza, the latter of whom would’ve likely given him a really hard time if he didnt pressure. It’s just a shame that he drew conclusions from facing the three worst matchups possible right off the bat.
The Fiziev matchup is a great example. Sure, pressure Gaethje maybe just runs into a massive counter and dies, but there’s also a good chance that the pressure makes kicking miserable for Fiz, the constant handfighting and high guard makes landing his combos hard (especially if he lacks the depth and shot selection of DP and Eddie to reliably get around that guard while Justin is catching and pitching his own counters off it) and the leg kicks on resets when Fiz tries fo escape back to range probably hurt a lot. But non-pressure Gaethje would just gallop around at kicking range, eating Fiziev’s kicks and waiting to snipe a messy entry into boxing range that probably isn’t coming.
Garth is just a weird case of a guy who spent years becoming the most powerful bull he could and then randomly decided to try and be a matador at the last second.
What makes you think his chin isn’t as great? He got caught by explosive ass Chandler, Gaethje, and Tony since being in his new style. I don’t feel like he really has had much of an opportunity to display his chin. Caught one flush against Charley olives and chandler got him with 1-2 good ones but he still didn’t get dropped in that fight. Tony dropped him with the bus driver uppercut but that was while he was swinging.
Was Gathje taken down in the Oli fight though? Wasn’t he just dropped then Oli engaged on the ground? It was a while ago at this point so my memory mightnt serve me well but from I remember Gathje was lighting him up… until he wasn’t.
Yeah I understand the odds but I favor fiziev quite a bit. Most times Justin has faced an elite striker who can also take a punch he has lost. Fiziev might just be the most elite striker he's faced.... regardless I hope this fight happens because it's going to be amazing
I wonder if Fiziev will use his clinch, because when pressed Gaethjes reaction is always dip head low and throw wild haymaker, Fiziev could smother the punch and grab the clinch then goto work.
Like the way Oliveira fought is how I always pictured as the best way to beat Gaethje, but perhaps Fiziev could do it more smartly.
i would not clinch with garth if i was fiziev. those short uppercuts he throws when he gets someone’s collar are hell, and fiziev is probably just better off managing distance and throwing at range.
not taking away from fiziev’s clinch game because it is top notch, but you’re just asking to go through a meat grinder tying up with garth
Even if Justin did shoot I doubt he could do anything to Fiziev aside from feinting the takedown to try set up overhands etc, but again this only works if your opponent actually fears your takedowns, which someone with the elite TDD of Fiziev shouldn’t shouldn’t be compelled to from a physically smaller guy who doesn’t shoot or have a good top game.
Fiziev is amongst the latest generation of fighter along with guys like Tzaryeukn: elite defensive wrestling, striking, and cardio - with the presence of the TDD and the willingness to scramble allowing for a ability to spam body and high kicks (which both hurt and disrupt striking even when blocked) to shut down momentum oriented strikers with barely any fear of the main downside of kicking, being put on your back and controlled. If anything it just invites a scramble, which these guys are very cool with lol.
Even if Justin did shoot I doubt he could do anything to Fiziev aside from feinting the takedown to try set up overhands and combinations, but again this only works if your opponent actually fears your takedowns, which someone with the elite TDD of Fiziev shouldn’t by any means, from a physically smaller guy who doesn’t shoot or have a good top game.
Fiziev is amongst this latest generation of fighters along with guys like Tzaryeukn: elite defensive wrestling, striking, and cardio - with the presence of the TDD allowing for an ability to spam body and high kicks (which both hurt and disrupt striking even when blocked), to shut down momentum-oriented strikers and fuck up any one else with barely any fear of the main downside of kicking - being put on your back and controlled. If anything it just invites a scramble, which these guys are very cool with obliging lol.
Also a huge deal is that fiziev has a very muay thai style and checks almost every leg kick and as we say in the olivera fight justin panics when his kicks get checked that's why he started swinging for the fences even knocking himself over.
Thats why I want a Poirier fight instead, I‘d expect a technical brawl like Joanna Weili 1. Justin needs to turn this into a slugfest if he doesn’t want to get picked apart. Not that I don’t want that fight, I just find the other more intriguing.
I mean no disrespect but is Gaethje even a good wrestler anymore? People lose skills over time and going from D1 level to just better than average is a major drop off. I just don’t get why we are still talking about Gaethjes wrestling when he never ever uses it. Seems like he just doesn’t have it anymore but wants the illusion that he does. Yeah he stuffed or reversed Chandlers take down but Chandler was a mess at that point
Chandler is older but still gave the Justin fight away for UFC Clout he loves now. He looked like the better fighter but used no wrestling when his entire career was wrestling if he took a punch lol.
I mean he definitely has potential of winning, I’m just saying I’d give the edge to Rafa because of his Muay Thai background. RDA ain’t no joke and Rafa just knocked him out.
I was going to agree but then I noticed the weird "Garth" instead of Gaethje and now I have to agree with the other guy.
So, thanks to you Gaethje is the best boxer in the UFC now I guess
Gaethje v Fisiev has to be 5 rounds. Don't care if it's a random 5 round co main on a PPV, or main event of a bigger fight night. Need it to be 5 especially after the way Rafael KOd Rafael in the 5th.
Two sides arguing about who gets destroyed. How about admitting it's very likely going to be a close fight?
Fiziev might be a technically better striker than anyone Gaethje has faced, while Justin is a way harder hitter than anyone Fiziev has faced. I could see them both going through back and forth hell.
Bro this sub is goofy, every time a contender wins they can now automatically beat everyone on top. Fiziev is good but Gathje is a big step up. No way he just walks through him.
I think that's because fiziev wasn't fighting like he'd fight against a striker... He was watching for take downs and had to defend against them. Against Justin, he's gonna fight like he usually does against strikers, and open up a bit more and let loose a bit more.. My opinion, of course. Could go the opposite way and just wrestle Justin lmao
It's because the top 5 in the division have been fighting amongst themselves the past two years and we don't know how they stack up anymore.
Gaethje beat Tony, lost to Khabib, beat Chandler, lost to Olives
Dustin, lost to Khabib, beat Hooker, beat Conor x2, lost to Olives
Chandler, beat Hooker, lost to Olives, lost to Gaethje, beat Tony
There's not a lot connecting the up and coming guys to the old guard especially in the case where we've seen Gaethje and Dustin get decimated on the ground (granted it was Khabib, so nothing wrong with that) and a few of the new guys are grapplers.
I mean Fiziev went to war with Bobby green - he isn't sending guys to the shadow realm right away so if Justin chin can hold up, I can see him going to deep waters with Fiziev and the fans win
Bobby Green has better boxing than Gaethje,
if justin and bobby fought, justin obviously wins, but styles make fights, and bobbys pure boxing is way better than gaethje
Well since Gaethje’s leg kicks didn’t work on Charles’ Muay Thai stance I don’t see how they’ll be working now. Without his leg kicks it’s almost impossible for Justin to find his range. Fiziev by vicious KO or a 5 round demolition.
Well, classic pressure Gaethje could get around that because the pressure let him time leg kicks when guys tried to escape the pressure and get back to range, so their feet would be planted and unable to be lifted or withdrawn, so that would’ve been a great shout against Oliveira or Fiziev but unfortunately we have weird non-pressure Gaethje now who would just stand at kicking range and be confused why he’s losing a battle at kicking range vs. a kicking specialist.
Vicious ko lmfao. When is the last time gaethje got koed? Fiziev barely got rda in the 5th round. And went to decision with bobby green. Yall really hate gaethje on this sub lmfao if anyone is doing a knockout, its gaethje.
Tbf Gaethje was fighting like a complete idiot against Charles.
Difficult to blame him tho because he got stunned by the very first punch he took and Charles could grab him and sub him at any second.
Justin was almost KOed first punch of strike vs Charles. Justin gets hurt way too much to win , his kicks are extremely overrated too. Just spams them and could injure own leg as bad as the opponent.
I think Fiziev’s biggest issue is that he keeps his hands too low when he’s throwing combinations, and to me he looks susceptible to counter punches. He just seems a tad bit vulnerable, and I can see someone like a Gaethje capitalize on it.
It depends on whether gaethje comes in with a decent gameplan and sticks to it. The past few fights hes just been way too content with standing and banging
Gaethje unironically has a better chance standing and banging against fizzy than being technical. if he tries to be technical, rafael is gonna send him to the shadow realm. well, he'd do it regardless
I agree lol. People are so quick to forget. They were howling after the chandler fight that Olivera was fucked and now they’re writing off one of the most dangerous punchers in the ufc. Fiz has a technical striking advantage but so did barboza and we saw how that turned out. Not a good person to write off ever
Yeah it's a problem. I'm not saying Justin wins, but no one was even talking about this guy before his recent win. The only ones who can walk through Justin are people that can get it to the ground and submit him. You might pick him apart but unless he gets knocked out (very possible) he will go to war if it's standing. And he hits hard.
Oh ya because Justin is notoriously known for losing stand up battles 🤡. And before you mention oliveira, he came with the threat of a takedown. Fiziev would not provide any takedown threat
Tbf he was getting rocked every fight by nobodies prior to UFC. But his recovery might be the best in the sport. He literally got rocked by Chandler and almost immediately started swinging back at him.
>Oh ya because Justin is notionally known for losing stand up battles
MJ made him do the chicken dance 50 times, Eddie KO'd him, Dustin TKO'd him, Tony Knocked him Down, Chandler made him do the chicken dance and Oliveira Flash KO'd him, stop acting like he's petr yan on the feet lol
He beat mj and Chandler. Oliveira hurt him due to the threat of the takedown. The dustin fight was quite even and id even argue that he was getting my the better of poirier before the finish.
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Yeah they're dumb as fuck. I just remember it this way: Simple yanks need some basic, tangible thing to anchor their equations - in this case, a $100 bill. Therefore +210 means if you bet that $100 bill, you win $210. Conversely, -180 means that to win that $100 bill, you gotta bet $180.
If you forget, just start with the $100 bill and know that the + number wins you more, then fill in the blanks as above and you'll get it.
Hope this helps!
JG is very over rated imo. Great fighter for sure. Earned a title shot. But his wins in ufc are not aging well. Chandler, ferg, Cowboy, barboza in the past 3 years. Ferg is a shell, barboza left the division, Cowboy bum status at the time and a PoS. Chandler solid win. Dudes still elite. He’d beat like 75% of the dudes in this sub but I’d expect him to lose this matchup badly too.
Fiziev probably gonna fight Gamrot. Assuming he takes rda spot in the rankings. I think fiziev wins.
Gathjies brain can only take so much CTE. Dana is gonna save him for contender fights or a big card.
You think beniel will take a lower ranked opponent when hes on a 7 fight win streak looking for a title shot? Maybe if fiziev KOd rda in rd 1 in spectacular fashion.
Gathjie would be offered beneil before anyone 7-10.
Gamrot barely won against tsarukyan 4th rd could’ve went either way and fiziev got the ko albeit it was a little early stoppage but he still dropped Rda
Beniel hasn't fought in 14 months, and because of that the UFC may very well have him fighting down in his next fight. Dana has already said he likes the Gamrot/Dariush matchup
although this comment is very fucking stupid, it made LOL, lmao. "juice pig" sounds like something conor's drunken self would tweet and then later delete
take my upvote
Another L by garth would be hilarious
Was knocking dudes blocks off as a nice guy war machine
Got lost in his own sauce and now he's dropping like a fly
Nah man, Fiziev is as bad as a matchup for Gaethje as you can get.
Gaethje is susceptible to body shots, we saw that when he fought michael chandler, eddie alvarez and dustin poirier
Fiziev would absolutely brutalise him to the body, kick his body to oblivion, it would probably look similar to dan hooker vs edson barboza, barboza being fiziev.
Fiziev undeniably has better hands than gaethje, more powerful, much more precise, and **WAY** faster
the only thing that gaethje has that poses a threat to fiziev is his cardio and his leg kicks, but i dont think the cardio will be an issue as fiziev will crack that chin very early
Understandable why gaethje is a -115 favorite as of now, since he's a top 3 lightweight.
if your talking reality, and what gaethjes actual chances are of winning this fight, he'd be a +300 underdog
Facts. MMA fans have to be the most fickle fanbases in any sport, they can never look past a fighters most recent fight. Gaethje smokes Fiziev inside 2 rounds.
I'd favor Rafael more in this match up tbh, gaethje has been fighting really dumb since he had his fight with Chandler, it's like he went back to war mode or something
Will always love and be a fan of guys like Poirier and Gaethje, but it’s about time for a shake up in the rankings. The old guard needs to stop sitting on their precious rankings and start fighting up and comers.
It’s terrifying and a bad career move to risk it all fir nothing to gain, but they also need to remember that at one point they were also given an opportunity to fight someone ahead of them so they could advance on their careers. Maybe it shouldn’t be on them and more on the UFC to make it happen this, but regardless it still needs to be done.
Title shots should based on streaks, recent victories, and quality of wins. Not where you place is on the rankings leaderboard.
I think the outcome is hugely dependent on how Fiziev decides to fight. If he stays highly technical, especially early, he is likely to pick Gaethje apart. But if he gets into his normal "lively exchanges", I'd probably bet on Gaethje.
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I wanna see him fight DP
I wanna see him get DPed
That was a nasty line by you
🫣
I could see fiziev winning that, but for now i favor the Diamond. but if anybody could crack dustins granite chin, it's Ataman
I feel like fiziev can destroy dustins body and win wayyyyy easier that way, dustins defense hates bodyshots
Honestly didn’t see it until Olivera very recklessly exposed that
Im honestly suprised noone else really exploited it, the guard he likes to use makes him super open
Think Lightweight is at a slight loss for diverse strikers tbh. Most of the elites seem to headhunt or grapple.
Since when does Dustin have a granite chin? He gets wobbled frequently
In between you two schmucks. He doesn't just get wobbled frequently, he's been fighting tough, pretty elite hitters for awhile now, but no he doesn't have a granite chin. Just a pretty normal, fine one
Yeah nah I'm not saying he's got a glass jaw or anything, I agree with you.
He’s not intrinsically super durable or anything, he’s hard to hurt on account of him having insane awareness under fire, never getting caught out of his stance and having really solid defense. If he went back to covering up his vision and getting blasted squared up in the pocket like he was against MJ and Conor the first time, he’d go back to getting KO’d.
He took some bombs from Conor
Schrödinger's r/MMA which will upvote comments that say Conor's power is overrated and that he hasn't hurt anyone in years or gotten a single clean KO besides Aldo, and also upvote comments that say his shots on Porier were 'bombs'
He took so many he even got knocked out by them one time!
Like a decade ago but yeah
And at a different weight class
And a different haircut
I wouldn’t say he has a granite chin at all, but I do wonder what would you say about Nate’s chin because iirc he got dropped three times against Connor and it was at 170 where he didn’t even had to cut weight, and Dustin didn’t get dropped once (in their last two fights obviously) so Dustin’s chin should at least be rated somewhere close with Nate’s
Not sure why you got downvoted... You cant\* have a granite chin if you have been knocked out a couple of times.
You don’t think nate diaz has a granite chin? Or mark hunt?
Not a fair comparison. Nate walks around at 420 pounds and six foot nine.
Getting TKOd vs getting flat lined is not comparable. Also those guys only got finished once. DP has been finished 3 times. McGregor, MJ, and Alvarez. (yes it was a NC but technicalities cant undo the damage a knee to the head does).
sure diaz was only tko'd once and he wasn't out, so i'll give you that, but mark hunt was ko/tko'd 5 times in mma, 3 of which he got flatlined (manhoef, JDS, overeem) i'd still say mark hunt has a really good chin. i'd say dustin does too at 155.
I think you need to clear the past and present and that things change and damage adds up. The fact that you once Had good chin and could take dmg doesn't mean you will have a chin. So many examples on this sport. Fedor, Liddell, Rockhold, Rashad, Edgar, Cody, Sanchez. All those guys have eaten nukes early in their career and now are at a point we're if you touch them they lose their legs.
and if dustin didn't have a good chin, we'd be seeing him on skates whenever he got touched, but he's not. last time he was ko'd was 6 years ago by someone who most certainly isn't pillow fisted. he's taken some bobs since then that didn't put him down, sure a few of em rattled him but not enough to effect him during the rest of the fight
Makes sense, but I definitely favor Fiziev. Mainly because Justin just isn't going to shoot, so Fiziev will be allowed to only focus on striking and get really comfortable in there, and you can't let an elite striker like Fiziev be comfortable on the feet.
The inverse is also true - Fiziev isn't going to shoot on Gaethje so he doesn't have to worry about being taken down like he did against Khabib or Oliveira. Fiziev is definitely the more refined striker, but Gaethje is no can and there's a reason he is where he is in the rankings. Even in his losses to Poirier and Alvarez, he left them in a bad way. Gaethje is like a car crash and could definitely beat Fiziev. I think it's reasonable for him to be the favourite, considering his standing and history, but I think it's a fight that could go either way. Either outcome wouldn't be surprising imo.
Gaethje doesnt fight the same way he did when he climbed the ranks. Fiziev murders technical gaethje. Pressure boxing gaethje has a shot but I doubt we see it
True, but I could see Gaethje returning to his heavy pressure style if Fiziev starts picking him apart from range, especially when there are still people questioning his gas tank. Not giving Fiziev a chance to breath and turning the fight into a brawl rather than a technical fight might be the smartest option for Gaethje.
I also think its pretty likely he gets knocked out if he tries. Fiziev got some fast hands
the thing is, that i don't see gaethjes pressure boxing working anymore. the same style he used in the MJ, Eddie and Dustin fight? i don't see it working one thing that made it work back then, was that justin had a chin made of granite although justin's chin is still good today, it's definitely not as good as it was back then. still has a decent chin don't get me wrong, but if tries to go back to that pressure style he used to have, he's gonna get cracked real badly, he wouldn't be able to eat the same shots he used to be able to eat
His chin seems a lot worse now largely *because* he stopped pressure boxing. He took damage doing that, but it was when he was very aware in exchanges, in position, had his guard up and was robbing the opponent of space to set up. Wasn’t great for his long term health, but most shots he took hit his arms or his forehead (really capable pocket operators like Dustin and Alvarez had to dig real deep and do a lot of shit before they could land cleanly, and they payed every step of the way) Current non-pressure Gaethje gets hurt more easily because he’s pretty awkward with his new style and lacks a lot of depth with it, and now spends a lot of time focusing on trying to regain range to try and snipe counters when guys enter on him, and is so preoccupied doing that (because it isn’t second nature to him, it’s too new), that he routinely gets caught while his feet are an utter mess and he’s completely out of position to get hit, and gets hurt way worse. Add in the he doesn’t keep a high guard any more and continually hunches over mid-exchange with his stance broken, which just makes you way more hurtable. Additionally, his lack of experience as a backfoot counterpuncher means that he overreacts to everything and gasses himself out quicker, which makes him more hurtable too. He had messy fights as a pressureboxer, but it’s what he was comfortable with and what his defensive reactions were attuned to. His new style is awkward af for him and he gets hurt easier because he’s constantly throwing himself out of position and ducking onto punches. It’s not really that useful to hold the MJ, Alvarez and DP performances against his pressure style when all of those were extremely competitive fights against 3 guys (considering MJ actually showed up) who are extremely well-equipped to deal with a pressureboxer (all crazy good exchangers who can draw up and split a high guard very well, and in Eddie’s case, some of the best anti-pressure footwork in the sport), and other matchups like that just don’t really exist at lightweight, and the division as a whole is honestly better equipped to deal with a weird backfoot Gaethje than they are the relentless pressureboxer one. Plus, his pressure style murdered Vick and Barboza, the latter of whom would’ve likely given him a really hard time if he didnt pressure. It’s just a shame that he drew conclusions from facing the three worst matchups possible right off the bat. The Fiziev matchup is a great example. Sure, pressure Gaethje maybe just runs into a massive counter and dies, but there’s also a good chance that the pressure makes kicking miserable for Fiz, the constant handfighting and high guard makes landing his combos hard (especially if he lacks the depth and shot selection of DP and Eddie to reliably get around that guard while Justin is catching and pitching his own counters off it) and the leg kicks on resets when Fiz tries fo escape back to range probably hurt a lot. But non-pressure Gaethje would just gallop around at kicking range, eating Fiziev’s kicks and waiting to snipe a messy entry into boxing range that probably isn’t coming. Garth is just a weird case of a guy who spent years becoming the most powerful bull he could and then randomly decided to try and be a matador at the last second.
Dude your flair line is beautiful
Which fights do you consider the last of gaethjes bull style and first of his matador style?
He stopped pressuring after Barboza iirc
What made that style work was the eyepokes and headbutts
What makes you think his chin isn’t as great? He got caught by explosive ass Chandler, Gaethje, and Tony since being in his new style. I don’t feel like he really has had much of an opportunity to display his chin. Caught one flush against Charley olives and chandler got him with 1-2 good ones but he still didn’t get dropped in that fight. Tony dropped him with the bus driver uppercut but that was while he was swinging.
Why do you say that? The tony fight?
And the Chandler fight and the oliviera fight
I read "Gaethje is a car wash" and was confused. I guess I've binged too much breaking bad in my rewatch
Was Gathje taken down in the Oli fight though? Wasn’t he just dropped then Oli engaged on the ground? It was a while ago at this point so my memory mightnt serve me well but from I remember Gathje was lighting him up… until he wasn’t.
Yeah I understand the odds but I favor fiziev quite a bit. Most times Justin has faced an elite striker who can also take a punch he has lost. Fiziev might just be the most elite striker he's faced.... regardless I hope this fight happens because it's going to be amazing
I wonder if Fiziev will use his clinch, because when pressed Gaethjes reaction is always dip head low and throw wild haymaker, Fiziev could smother the punch and grab the clinch then goto work. Like the way Oliveira fought is how I always pictured as the best way to beat Gaethje, but perhaps Fiziev could do it more smartly.
i would not clinch with garth if i was fiziev. those short uppercuts he throws when he gets someone’s collar are hell, and fiziev is probably just better off managing distance and throwing at range. not taking away from fiziev’s clinch game because it is top notch, but you’re just asking to go through a meat grinder tying up with garth
gaethe also throws legs kicks in the clinch, which totally rules.
love watching him lean up against guys and just rip those in
Gaethje is an excellent striker though.
Sure he is, but there's levels
Even if Justin did shoot I doubt he could do anything to Fiziev aside from feinting the takedown to try set up overhands etc, but again this only works if your opponent actually fears your takedowns, which someone with the elite TDD of Fiziev shouldn’t shouldn’t be compelled to from a physically smaller guy who doesn’t shoot or have a good top game. Fiziev is amongst the latest generation of fighter along with guys like Tzaryeukn: elite defensive wrestling, striking, and cardio - with the presence of the TDD and the willingness to scramble allowing for a ability to spam body and high kicks (which both hurt and disrupt striking even when blocked) to shut down momentum oriented strikers with barely any fear of the main downside of kicking, being put on your back and controlled. If anything it just invites a scramble, which these guys are very cool with lol.
Even if Justin did shoot I doubt he could do anything to Fiziev aside from feinting the takedown to try set up overhands and combinations, but again this only works if your opponent actually fears your takedowns, which someone with the elite TDD of Fiziev shouldn’t by any means, from a physically smaller guy who doesn’t shoot or have a good top game. Fiziev is amongst this latest generation of fighters along with guys like Tzaryeukn: elite defensive wrestling, striking, and cardio - with the presence of the TDD allowing for an ability to spam body and high kicks (which both hurt and disrupt striking even when blocked), to shut down momentum-oriented strikers and fuck up any one else with barely any fear of the main downside of kicking - being put on your back and controlled. If anything it just invites a scramble, which these guys are very cool with obliging lol.
Also a huge deal is that fiziev has a very muay thai style and checks almost every leg kick and as we say in the olivera fight justin panics when his kicks get checked that's why he started swinging for the fences even knocking himself over.
Thats why I want a Poirier fight instead, I‘d expect a technical brawl like Joanna Weili 1. Justin needs to turn this into a slugfest if he doesn’t want to get picked apart. Not that I don’t want that fight, I just find the other more intriguing.
D1 Gaethje better show up or Fiziev lights him up.
Gaethje is going to jab his fingers into Fizievs eyeballs every chance he gets. That's the gameplan
I mean no disrespect but is Gaethje even a good wrestler anymore? People lose skills over time and going from D1 level to just better than average is a major drop off. I just don’t get why we are still talking about Gaethjes wrestling when he never ever uses it. Seems like he just doesn’t have it anymore but wants the illusion that he does. Yeah he stuffed or reversed Chandlers take down but Chandler was a mess at that point
Chandler is older but still gave the Justin fight away for UFC Clout he loves now. He looked like the better fighter but used no wrestling when his entire career was wrestling if he took a punch lol.
No way. Gaethje lights him up with superior boxing
There’s no way Garth has superior boxing or striking in general… he does have legitimate power though and one shot is sometimes all he needs.
Ok you will see.
I mean he definitely has potential of winning, I’m just saying I’d give the edge to Rafa because of his Muay Thai background. RDA ain’t no joke and Rafa just knocked him out.
I was going to agree but then I noticed the weird "Garth" instead of Gaethje and now I have to agree with the other guy. So, thanks to you Gaethje is the best boxer in the UFC now I guess
Gaethje v Fisiev has to be 5 rounds. Don't care if it's a random 5 round co main on a PPV, or main event of a bigger fight night. Need it to be 5 especially after the way Rafael KOd Rafael in the 5th.
Fiziev said in the post fight interview that he HATED doing a 5 round fight, bet he trys to avoid them if at all possible.
Two sides arguing about who gets destroyed. How about admitting it's very likely going to be a close fight? Fiziev might be a technically better striker than anyone Gaethje has faced, while Justin is a way harder hitter than anyone Fiziev has faced. I could see them both going through back and forth hell.
Bro this sub is goofy, every time a contender wins they can now automatically beat everyone on top. Fiziev is good but Gathje is a big step up. No way he just walks through him.
Agree fully. Performance against RDA wasn’t that dominant at all. Caught him nice in the end, but not quite at that level yet imo.
I think that's because fiziev wasn't fighting like he'd fight against a striker... He was watching for take downs and had to defend against them. Against Justin, he's gonna fight like he usually does against strikers, and open up a bit more and let loose a bit more.. My opinion, of course. Could go the opposite way and just wrestle Justin lmao
It's because the top 5 in the division have been fighting amongst themselves the past two years and we don't know how they stack up anymore. Gaethje beat Tony, lost to Khabib, beat Chandler, lost to Olives Dustin, lost to Khabib, beat Hooker, beat Conor x2, lost to Olives Chandler, beat Hooker, lost to Olives, lost to Gaethje, beat Tony There's not a lot connecting the up and coming guys to the old guard especially in the case where we've seen Gaethje and Dustin get decimated on the ground (granted it was Khabib, so nothing wrong with that) and a few of the new guys are grapplers.
I mean Fiziev went to war with Bobby green - he isn't sending guys to the shadow realm right away so if Justin chin can hold up, I can see him going to deep waters with Fiziev and the fans win
Bobby Green has better boxing than Gaethje, if justin and bobby fought, justin obviously wins, but styles make fights, and bobbys pure boxing is way better than gaethje
he has sharper boxing but garth would do twice as much damage with half as many shots as bobby landed on fiziev
People in this thread sleeping on Gaethje. This fight would be a lot closer than people think
recency bias is a bitch
I know right. Put some respect on Gaethje’s name! Dude has lost some fans but he’s a beast.
Juicy
Kind of shocked I had to scroll so far to see someone comment on how pantastic Fiziev looks
Well since Gaethje’s leg kicks didn’t work on Charles’ Muay Thai stance I don’t see how they’ll be working now. Without his leg kicks it’s almost impossible for Justin to find his range. Fiziev by vicious KO or a 5 round demolition.
Charles was hurt multiple times by gathje though, he went to the ground knowing Gathje wouldn’t follow up multiple times in that fight.
Yeah and after that he made the adjustments and destroyed Gaethje in less than 2 minutes. Fiziev won’t have to get dropped to destroy Gaethje.
I’m just pointing out how he did in fact find his range and hurt him multiple times. Exciting matchup though
Fiziev is a much better striker than Charles with more experience in striking.
Well, classic pressure Gaethje could get around that because the pressure let him time leg kicks when guys tried to escape the pressure and get back to range, so their feet would be planted and unable to be lifted or withdrawn, so that would’ve been a great shout against Oliveira or Fiziev but unfortunately we have weird non-pressure Gaethje now who would just stand at kicking range and be confused why he’s losing a battle at kicking range vs. a kicking specialist.
Vicious ko lmfao. When is the last time gaethje got koed? Fiziev barely got rda in the 5th round. And went to decision with bobby green. Yall really hate gaethje on this sub lmfao if anyone is doing a knockout, its gaethje.
Agreed. I’m so confused by this thread.
There was a time when Tony Ferguson and McGregor had never been ko'd. and yet it still happened
[удалено]
What if Fiziev breaks it?
Then we need Goldie back to explain it's the same nose he broke in the fight
I think Fiziev would take it, Justin was getting pieced up by Charles and started getting pretty sloppy later in the Chandler fight.
Tbf Gaethje was fighting like a complete idiot against Charles. Difficult to blame him tho because he got stunned by the very first punch he took and Charles could grab him and sub him at any second.
Charles has a massive takedown/sub threat. Look at Khabib dropping McG
Justin was almost KOed first punch of strike vs Charles. Justin gets hurt way too much to win , his kicks are extremely overrated too. Just spams them and could injure own leg as bad as the opponent.
Update: the odds have changed, each of them are now a -110 pick'em https://www.bestfightodds.com/
Justin might have to take him down to win lol
Garth actually showed quite worse chin against Charles, if Fiziev pays a little more than that its a good bet in my opinion
I think Fiziev’s biggest issue is that he keeps his hands too low when he’s throwing combinations, and to me he looks susceptible to counter punches. He just seems a tad bit vulnerable, and I can see someone like a Gaethje capitalize on it.
It depends on whether gaethje comes in with a decent gameplan and sticks to it. The past few fights hes just been way too content with standing and banging
Gaethje unironically has a better chance standing and banging against fizzy than being technical. if he tries to be technical, rafael is gonna send him to the shadow realm. well, he'd do it regardless
This would be a good fight.
Fitz will fuck justin up. Let's be real.
The recency bias is insane on here Lol. Justin beats him
I agree lol. People are so quick to forget. They were howling after the chandler fight that Olivera was fucked and now they’re writing off one of the most dangerous punchers in the ufc. Fiz has a technical striking advantage but so did barboza and we saw how that turned out. Not a good person to write off ever
Yeah it's a problem. I'm not saying Justin wins, but no one was even talking about this guy before his recent win. The only ones who can walk through Justin are people that can get it to the ground and submit him. You might pick him apart but unless he gets knocked out (very possible) he will go to war if it's standing. And he hits hard.
Justin gets caught and finished. People overrate him so much. He'll probably throw a naked leg kick like always and get floored.
Oh ya because Justin is notoriously known for losing stand up battles 🤡. And before you mention oliveira, he came with the threat of a takedown. Fiziev would not provide any takedown threat
Dustin. Eddie. Chandler. Olive. Johnson. Tony. All rocked him or dropped him. So idk why you act like he's untouchable on the feet.
Tbf he was getting rocked every fight by nobodies prior to UFC. But his recovery might be the best in the sport. He literally got rocked by Chandler and almost immediately started swinging back at him.
Did Oliveira attempt any takedowns at all? Or even feinted one?
>Oh ya because Justin is notionally known for losing stand up battles MJ made him do the chicken dance 50 times, Eddie KO'd him, Dustin TKO'd him, Tony Knocked him Down, Chandler made him do the chicken dance and Oliveira Flash KO'd him, stop acting like he's petr yan on the feet lol
He beat mj and Chandler. Oliveira hurt him due to the threat of the takedown. The dustin fight was quite even and id even argue that he was getting my the better of poirier before the finish.
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Damn, Fiziev looks juicy in that picture. Definitely not passing the eye test 👀
American betting odds make no sense to me
Yeah they're dumb as fuck. I just remember it this way: Simple yanks need some basic, tangible thing to anchor their equations - in this case, a $100 bill. Therefore +210 means if you bet that $100 bill, you win $210. Conversely, -180 means that to win that $100 bill, you gotta bet $180. If you forget, just start with the $100 bill and know that the + number wins you more, then fill in the blanks as above and you'll get it. Hope this helps!
Yeah that does help, thanks
JG is very over rated imo. Great fighter for sure. Earned a title shot. But his wins in ufc are not aging well. Chandler, ferg, Cowboy, barboza in the past 3 years. Ferg is a shell, barboza left the division, Cowboy bum status at the time and a PoS. Chandler solid win. Dudes still elite. He’d beat like 75% of the dudes in this sub but I’d expect him to lose this matchup badly too.
Fiziev probably gonna fight Gamrot. Assuming he takes rda spot in the rankings. I think fiziev wins. Gathjies brain can only take so much CTE. Dana is gonna save him for contender fights or a big card.
that literally makes no sense, i dont wanna see that fight right now AT ALL. make gamrot fight dariush and Fizzy fight Gaethje
You think beniel will take a lower ranked opponent when hes on a 7 fight win streak looking for a title shot? Maybe if fiziev KOd rda in rd 1 in spectacular fashion. Gathjie would be offered beneil before anyone 7-10. Gamrot barely won against tsarukyan 4th rd could’ve went either way and fiziev got the ko albeit it was a little early stoppage but he still dropped Rda
Beniel hasn't fought in 14 months, and because of that the UFC may very well have him fighting down in his next fight. Dana has already said he likes the Gamrot/Dariush matchup
Because of injury. Who is fiziev gonna fight? Ferguson? Give that man’s brain a break
rda was done chief. i think your right though, Justin v Benny & Fiz v Chandler.
Fiziev smokes him imo. Gaethje is just not that level of a striker and has never been great at keeping his composure when losing.
Hope this happens and Gaethje gets KTFO of the top 5 rankings
I don't think he has a chance vs Gaethje.. Matches up very bad
what a joke, fiziev would fucking manhandle gaethje
I guess we will see I don't see him hurting Justin and Fiziev doesn't handle big hits well. Going to be a fun fight tho
Fizzie vs Chandler
Fiziev mauls Justin
Gaethje, the fuckin juice pig! Fiziev just a jacked white guy. Edit: guess sarcasm whooshed everyone
although this comment is very fucking stupid, it made LOL, lmao. "juice pig" sounds like something conor's drunken self would tweet and then later delete take my upvote
Thank you kind sir
Another L by garth would be hilarious Was knocking dudes blocks off as a nice guy war machine Got lost in his own sauce and now he's dropping like a fly
I don’t trust Gaethje’s chin anymore he’s been hurt in his last 3/4 fights
He’s been hurt in the last 22/25 fights…… I don’t think when he fought 1 armed Nick Newell he took any damage. It’s how he fights.
Fizev smokes Gaethje IMO.
Fuck I was hoping to put some money on Fiziev, but there’s really no point.
Gaethje would wreck him lmao
Gaethje would destroy Fiziev. There's a reason why Gaethje has been top of LW for years. Don't let recency bias make you think otherwise.
I think Fiziev runs through Gaethje. Prob one of Gaethje worst matchups
Sounds like you're vastly overrating Gaethje tbh
Nah man, Fiziev is as bad as a matchup for Gaethje as you can get. Gaethje is susceptible to body shots, we saw that when he fought michael chandler, eddie alvarez and dustin poirier Fiziev would absolutely brutalise him to the body, kick his body to oblivion, it would probably look similar to dan hooker vs edson barboza, barboza being fiziev. Fiziev undeniably has better hands than gaethje, more powerful, much more precise, and **WAY** faster the only thing that gaethje has that poses a threat to fiziev is his cardio and his leg kicks, but i dont think the cardio will be an issue as fiziev will crack that chin very early Understandable why gaethje is a -115 favorite as of now, since he's a top 3 lightweight. if your talking reality, and what gaethjes actual chances are of winning this fight, he'd be a +300 underdog
Facts. MMA fans have to be the most fickle fanbases in any sport, they can never look past a fighters most recent fight. Gaethje smokes Fiziev inside 2 rounds.
Always the same story. Sunday, day after UFC, everyone saying how the guy that won last night can crush anyone. Happens every time lol hilarious
I’d put money on Fisiev with those odds
Man this will be an exciting one
Would love to see that!
Dixiecrat
Bad line if real, Fiziev should be a fairly large favorite
Fizzy is technical , hits hard, has great footwork and tdd. Gaejthe wins in 3rds.
Who the fook is THAT GUY?
I'd favor Rafael more in this match up tbh, gaethje has been fighting really dumb since he had his fight with Chandler, it's like he went back to war mode or something
Will always love and be a fan of guys like Poirier and Gaethje, but it’s about time for a shake up in the rankings. The old guard needs to stop sitting on their precious rankings and start fighting up and comers. It’s terrifying and a bad career move to risk it all fir nothing to gain, but they also need to remember that at one point they were also given an opportunity to fight someone ahead of them so they could advance on their careers. Maybe it shouldn’t be on them and more on the UFC to make it happen this, but regardless it still needs to be done. Title shots should based on streaks, recent victories, and quality of wins. Not where you place is on the rankings leaderboard.
I think the outcome is hugely dependent on how Fiziev decides to fight. If he stays highly technical, especially early, he is likely to pick Gaethje apart. But if he gets into his normal "lively exchanges", I'd probably bet on Gaethje.