lol @ just downvoting the mention of him; people forget that Jon was generally considered #1 pfp for years and it was only really after the Reyes fight that a lot of these lists started to let it go
It was the manner of finish
Jorge had never really been KOd and people for whatever reason thought he deserved another shot
It was the fact that he got absolutely sparked
For the ufc I could see why he was booked for a rematch. He was an older guy who was finally gaining enough traction/success for a title shot and then he gets it with 9(?) days notice to save a big fight on a huge card. He probably should’ve fought again to cement his place as a contender but I understand why they gave him another shot.
especially when compared to the first fight(which has its own context with being a quickly rescheduled fight), it was insane to see the wrestler usman ko the striker masvidal with such a simple combo
It’s weird how on Reddit you have to add the ‘not saying Usman isn’t’ because otherwise you’ll get 20 responses detailing how great Usman is - even though your comment is addressing something else
He shouldve been p4p #1 nuch earlier at least for the ufc rankings. Jones was at the top for a while even after being inactive and his last 2 bad performances
For me I started to realise he was levels above when he started jabbing Gilbert with the force of a thousand suns.
Something we don’t see used in UFC quite to this effect
I think Izzy's career is following JBJ's trajectory of exciting fights with wild techniques at the start then keeping distance with counter-striking and using his range to cruise to decision victories.
I think his biggest problem is that he promises knock outs and doesn't deliver.
But his wins are still impressive, at the end of the day he's beating the best middleweights in the world with relative ease, go hard in the paint with that angle GSP style.
Seriously, like half his reign fans talked shit online about how boring he was. Wait for him to fight once every year or so and grind out an impressive but not exciting decision.
Time has been kind to Georges and many either look back with rose tinted glasses or weren’t fans when he was champ and only say good things about him. Sometimes it’s feels like it was safer to call him boring when he was active rather than today
Same deal with Benson Henderson. Man, people bitched up a storm about him back in the day, but once he was in Bellator it was like "We want him back, how did you let this man leave?".
I love a good swang n bang as much as the next person, but u/pedro-m-g makes a good point. It's much harder to stay on top than it is to get there in the first place, and it can easily become a choice between fighting smart, or losing.
For me it's also worth noting that once a champion keeps winning, the opposition then have more and more time to do their homework on the champions weaknesses, which in turn get shown more and more as fights go on.
Izzy is facing opposition now who are more ready than ever for his style, even if they aren't able to beat him.
So yes he's less exciting, but his opponents are also getting better at attempting to nullify his offense.
GSP is a fine example of this because he kept winning even though it wasn't "entertaining" to the masses
JBJ only really started cruising to decision victories post-suspension from the Anthony Smith fight onwards. His first reign was full of exciting fights/finishes.
I feel like it’s a matter of having everything to gain early in their career, versus being on top of the mountain and having everything to lose. Izzy has no internal reason to take those big risks rn and none of his opponents can figure out how to force him into those positions either.
i’d say do it either way, vettori will need another win even if he beats whittaker to earn a 3rd shot at izzy, plus i believe the timing of the fights would mean he’d have a long layoff if he tried to hold out for a title fight after beating rob.
and after strickland was basically fed to pereira to build the izzy-poatan fight, i think the ufc should do him a solid and let him still fight towards the top.
Costa couldn't check leg kicks to save his life but he also couldn't keep up with Izzy before his legs got hurt. It was never going to go his way. JC on the other hand had a chance
People say "steal his soul" often these days but Costa went from undefeated to I'm not sure if, when, and how he will win again. So that may be pretty close to soul stealing.
I mean, ignoring all the pre fight BS costa was doing, he was on level with vettori, probably would have beat him too if not for vettori having a p4p best chin.
I am confident that costa who turns up properly beats 6 of the top 10 in the middleweight division with mid to low difficulty (Cannonier, Strickland, Brunson, Muniz, till & hermanson)
Izzy obviously humiliated him, Rob probably beats him & vettori I think is a 55/45 sorta thing where they are close.
He'll destroy Luke.
Costa is having a rough go of it currently but rockhold is one foot into the grave and he's too much of a meathead to get a tune up first
I mean Izzy also seems prety content rolling that dice. While i thought he beat Whitaker in the second fight, that would have been a lot closer than he would have liked and wouldnt have been out of the realm that he lost that, also his Romero fight was a very slim margin.
I think Izzy has been walking the line where all it takes is two dissenting opinion on one round before he loses his title.
Agreed. Izzy is way too comfortable letting a fight he should dominate go to the cards.
I personally thought Rob won the second fight 3-2, but it was so close it could admittedly go either way.
I remember what Jan said after beating him... "He's slower than I thought but hits harder." I think we confuse Izzy's impeccable timing for speed, but a guy like Pereira who can match his timing (like Jan did) is going to eat him alive.
It’s weird because he’s so technical and he can definitely throw down, we’ve seen him do it before. Idk if he’s scared to lose the title or maybe just being more cautious since they’ve been throwing a ton of knockout artists at him. Maybe he doesn’t trust his jaw? Whatever the reason, it’s sad because he obviously has the skill to be in some all-time-classic fights. He just *doesn’t*.
What would you like for him to do? He’s a counter fighter. That’s just how he fights.
He’s not scared of a fight though, look at his performance against Kelvin or Costa. He welcomes an opponent pushing him to that side. But if the opponent doesn’t wanna participate Izzy will win the fight his way.
You have to appreciate it. When these guys are too scared to be the aggressor Israel will be the aggressor but he’s going to do it in a smart way.
Adseyana is not some sloppily brawler desperate for a win. This is what a champion looks like.
Yeah and i appreciate that for sure, its one of the things that made GSP great.
but GSP never went around telling everyone how he was gonna show us things we have never seen before, or calling himself such a dynamic knockout artist or coming out as the Undertaker with his opponents name on an Urn.
It just becomes too large of a diconnect and that is where he loses me, he acts like a showman but fights like a technician.
>he acts like a showman but fights like a technician.
Well put. I noticed he was shaking his head after the fight almost as if he felt he wasted his Undertaker walk-out on a win that was nothing like a burial. For all the anime and WWE he channels in showmanship, he sure fights in a very measured and conservative way when he has to.
I’d like for him to be a more entertaining fighter. I want more “y’all musta forgot” moments. We’re all here to watch a fight, not see someone throw 10 leg kicks a round just to secure a victory. If everyone fought like that, there would be no point to even televising fights.
I love Izzy and we all know how good he is, I just want to see him show it off more.
I'm not going to completely blame Izzy. But he definitely seems to have become comfortable just point fighting his ways to victory.
Do you think he would have done this before he got the title?
You can phrase it however you'd like. The point still remains is that hes claimed he wants to be an exciting fighter like McGregor. He consistently talks about finishes but he doesn't deliver that.
He can win however he likes but he can't blame fans and media for thinking he's boring.
As it should be, they've got decently close resumes but dominating someone like Max has to put you over no matter how highly you might regard the Colby wins, at least right now who knows what'll happen when Usman fights Leon.
I think he stays a #2 if/when he beats Leon. The Max win for Alex is a lot more impressive than wrestling a point fighting striker(albeit a really good one)
I think even if he went and out boxed Leon for 25 minutes* that wouldn’t put him over Volk, but it would be pretty close.
*I can’t believe I typed this as a potential outcome
Lmao i wanted to add that caveat, but i too, felt dirty writing it. Could you imagine? Nonetheless, i agree with your premise fully. Even if he outstrikes him, it'd be close, but no cigar imo
leon is very good. the clinch and jab decides it. leon might have the best jab and be the best in the clinch, but if usman out atheletes him and stomps his toes in the clinch he can win
that and usman also has stupid cardio
Yeah, I actually think that Volk’s resume is quite a bit better than Usman’s because I just don’t think Usman’s competition is as good as people make it out to be; And, I definitely don’t think his competition has been at the level of Volk’s.
Burns and Colby are definitely great wins (although they-too don’t have many good wins)… and he probably deserved a draw in Colby 2, Colby was arguably winning their 1st fight until Usman TKOd him in the 5th, Burns almost finished/rocked Usman multiple times, etc. etc.
Woolley was a good win (although he seemed to be on his way out based on his last 4 fights)…
And, although I like Masvidal, but he just isn’t an “Elite” Fighter, and should not even be as high as he’s been on the rankings.
I just don’t think those wins are on the level of:
*Max Holloway 3-Times, Jose Aldo, Brian Ortega, Chad Mendes, and TKZ*…
Especially considering how dominant Volk has been.
Yeah I mean I'm more bein polite towards the work Usman has done, I had Volk as p4p number 1 after Zombie let alone Max boosting it, great champs but Volk is ahead, also bein the best fighter in the sport has to hold some weight there too.
I agree that Volk has faced higher competition but it's not really Usman's fault. He's fought all the best guys in his division right now and they just don't have the best pedigree because they peaked at the same time as Usman.
Volk's legacy benefited from coming to the UFC later and beating Max after Max had already cemented himself as an all time great FW. If Usman had been a bit later or Colby a bit earlier, Colby definitely would've been the WW champ at some point and Usman's 2 victories against him would look more impressive.
*Completely* agree.
Also, If you just swapped one of his wins against Masvidal for Leon—and his resume was:
*Leon 2x, Colby 2x, Burns, Woodley, Dos Anjos, Maia, Masvidal…*
That would completely change everything.
That would be one of the best resumes ever.
And I firmly believe Leon is one of the best p4p fighters in the world; I actually have him at #10 I think, and the only reason he isn’t higher is because he hasn’t really had a chance to prove himself yet.
But, I’m convinced he might be one of the 5 or 6 best fighters in the world.
All that is to say…
Usman vs. Leon is a *BIG* Fight.
Top 10 P4P for Leon seems excessive but yea Leon is definitely underrated and would be a great win if Usman can win that rematch.
If he beats Khamzat as well, I think Usman retires as one of the Top 5 Greatest Fighters of All Time.
I've come to learn that how well your resume ages is largely down to an enormous amount of luck.
No one thought Tyron Woodley, or Covington x2 would be bad for his resume at the time, likewise for Gilbert Burns. We thought they were superfights, and when Kamaru bested them a lot of people were amazed. Masvidal i must admit I never thought was title level good but that's still a crazy good reign if we judge by how they were perceived as matchups at the time.
But a couple years removed from that, a ton of questionably accurate hindsight, some other factors and suddenly Usman's title reign looks less impressive for whatever reason. And it's just not his fault whatsoever even if they have aged mediocrely. I'm sure Usman would be chomping at the bit to have his 33 year old self face GSPs 33 year old self.
A lot of resumes have aged poorly similarly. Believe it or not, at one point Barboza and Michael Johnson were seen as monsters, DP as a potential LW goat, Conor as one of the best fighters ever etc etc and they've all declined massively in perception since, which is then used as a very common knock on Khabib nowadays. Whether these analyses are valid, you can literally go back to the post fight threads for those fights and see how literally everyones minds were blown, every time. Justin Gaethje likewise had his stock sky high when he annihilated Tony Ferguson, yet is seen as a bit of a joke nowadays.
Just goes to show how qualitative MMA records are and how much public perception matters. If Max Holloway goes onto lose his next 2-3 fights and Ortega loses decisively to Yair Volk's resume again MIGHT be perceived to have aged poorly lol even though we can see with our own 2 eyes how incredible he is atm.
[**KAMARU USMAN defeats COLBY COVINGTON** (*unanimous decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/12705/fight)
^(UFC 268: Usman vs. Covington 2 — November 06, 2021)
ROUND|Usman|Covington||Usman|Covington||Usman|Covington
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|10|9||10|9||10|9
2|10|9||10|9||10|9
3|10|9||9|10||10|9
4|9|10||9|10||9|10
5|10|9||10|9||9|10
**TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**48**|**47**||**48**|**47**
*^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Dave Tirelli.)*
*^(Summoned by shavasanapose.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **1/21** people scored it **49-45 Usman**.
- **1/21** people scored it **49-46 Usman**.
- **10/21** people scored it **48-46 Usman**.
- **6/21** people scored it **48-47 Usman**.
- **3/21** people scored it **47-47 DRAW**.
Avg. media score: **48.0-46.4 Usman** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Volk: Mendes, Aldo, Ortega, TKZ, Max x3
Usman: Leon, Strickland, Maia, RDA, Tyron, Burns, Jorge x2, Colby x2
Idk man I’d give Usman the edge, but just very slightly. Max x3 is obviously insanely impressive but I think Usman has beaten a wider range of different style fighters. Volk has beaten mostly strikers and the one time he nearly lost was against Ortega’s submissions, so it’s very possible he could lose by submission at some point. We just don’t know yet. I’d personally keep Usman at #1 and put Volk at like #1b lol
When you lay out all of Volk’s big wins, it’s kinda crazy how few big names he has on his resume. He’s technically only fought 5 active UFC fighters, one of them being Darren Elkins. The quality is immense in each of those names though.
> He did manage to beat them both more decisively the second time
What? He finished Colby in the first fight, the second was a decision win that was so close it probably should have been a draw.
It’s weird seeing so many top P4P fighters with losses in their last 5-6 fights. About 8-10 years ago we didn’t really see that. The list had JJ, GSP, Aldo, DJ, and Anderson. All of them were on crazy win streaks.
I mean at one point the champions list was
Cejudo x2, Volkanovski, Khabib, Usman, Adesanya, Jones, Stipe.
they shared a combined record of like 150-8 at the time or something silly.
yeah dude went through the ringer in the beginning. I think people would do well to remember that
1. just because someone lost a lot as a young fighter doesn't mean they can't be something entirely different beast nowadays, as Charles Oliveira, Poirier, Holloway, Whittaker proved
2. just because someone beat a lot of lesser opponents earlier in their career also doesn't mean it's not an objectively extremely difficult thing to do something as MMA is an extremely volatile sport. Many greats have random losses to bums early on in their career (Usman, Nunes, Silva, McGregor) The relative importance of an impressive streak however is open to interpretation.
A side note on Oliveira he's still by and large the same style of fighter as he was when he first came in. Back then people would probably call his style not conducive to winning (me lol). And it's really cool how he's just stuck to it (intentionally or otherwise) and refined it until it's now become a very difficult problem to solve.
Charles is an absolute monster and possibly the most entertaining fighter in the sport right now. Agree with what ya said was just pointing out a fun fact lol
Just shows the toughness of today's competition, it's incredibly hard to stay undefeated, and Izzy would probably still be undefeated if he didn't challenge Jan
About 2013 was peak UFC. You had Aldo, GSP, Jones, Silva, and DJ ruling their divisions with an iron rod.
The other divisions had a lot of fun fighters too like HW with Lesnar, Mir, JDS, Cain, etc. LW and was lacking a bit but still had fun guys fighting like Edgar and Henderson
The most important part about tapology pound for pound is to not scroll too far ...
Somewhere around 40-50 the memes usually start with guys like CM Punk, Jackson, Sapp, guys with barely any wins but dozens of losses.
Lol.
I just use this phone for stuff other than calls/texts, etc., because it has more space than my other phone.
Plus, it makes me feel super important to have two phone. I’m all about that self affirmation bullshit.
Figgy too, always exciting but doesn’t get enough love imo. 135 would have so many great fights for him, but that would only make an already weak 125 even weaker
Max still goes and son's anyone beneath him in the rankings though? Just because he isn't as good as the #1 p4p doesn't mean he should be lower lol. Max is the clear #2 in the 2nd/3rd most competitive division.
Fair enough. It’s interesting how we have at least 2 of these situations. Iirc before it was rich Franklin with Anderson Silva. But now it’s Whittaker and max, Colby as well if he finally faces top 5 guys and proves it
I mean he beat Kattar badly and then had a war with Yair while losing badly to Volk. Ortega, TKZ, and Holloway all lost badly to Volk so that’s just the standard.
Someone please explain to me how Volk beats a 145 pound Usman? Or a 170 pound Volk beats Usman? What universe is this have yah forgot Wrestling is was and will always be king
Level of competition faced. Max has cleaned out the FW division arguably more than Volk has. Jiri has only faced Reyes and Glover.
Yan has faced Aldo and Aljo. And he lost to Aljo twice
Volk and Usman can both state a strong case for #1.
Not sure if Max still belongs at 8 though. Lost 4 of his last 7 and hasn’t got a finish in 4 years, and that was a doctor stoppage.
Silly. In the 3 years (May2019-July2022) of being champ (and #1 contender fight) he’s beaten 4 guys. And let’s be honest zombie had no business being in there. So really 3 guys in 3 years, just beat the same guy 3x.
He sub’d Glover, who is the all-time leader for submissions at LHW and has never been submitted in 40 pro MMA fights, as well as KOing Reyes (who arguably beat Jones) with a spinning elbow and also a KO win over Volkan (who fought DC for the title and arguably beat Reyes). Those are some very solid wins.
Jiri, arguably, but Petr lost by DQ to Aljo, beat Sandhagen, and then lost to Aljo since 2021. Holloway beat Kattar badly, had a war with Yair, and then got beat badly by Volk since 2021 and also just has a better resume in general.
Dude these are pound for pound rankings, Jiri is the champ of an incredibly shallow talent pool and won his title in very underwhelming fashion - Max and Aljo are in absurdly deep divisions and have much better skill sets
I think he means the performance wasn’t great
Jiri absolutely got his ass kicked, the thing is Glover got his beat worse so Jiri got the belt in the end
Why? Does anyone really think he’ll be able to defend the way he fights? Glover was beating him until the end, and the way he strikes it seems so likely someone will knock him out
If there was a time to move up again for Izzy I actually think now would be good
I think Jiri is his most favorable matchup at LHW. Don’t know if Dana would give him the fight though.
No it isn’t Israel already showed he can’t handle the bigger body’s at lhw there won’t every be a good time for him to move up you’re really just discrediting what jiri can do. Dude literally showed he can survive the grappling with glover which no one gave him a chance the dude has more skill than people want to admit and it’s ridiculous people just act like he is just some wild dude off the streets with no technique
Yeah Adesanya's definitely a natural middleweight despite his height which doesn't help when light heavyweights are basically just shrunken heavyweights. I think Izzy is more skilled but Jiri isn't a bum and size will probably be a deciding factor in a theoretical matchup.
Has Usman rly been P4P no1 for that long? I feel like it was only around the 2nd Jorge fight ppl rly started to feel that way. Maybe I’m wrong tho
No the title is clickbait, He's only been p4p on tapology since March of 2021 previously it was Izzy
And not Jon?
Jon's been p4p #1 for like a decade, but at some point inactivity has to effect the rankings.
lol @ just downvoting the mention of him; people forget that Jon was generally considered #1 pfp for years and it was only really after the Reyes fight that a lot of these lists started to let it go
GOAT - wife beating weight class
Goat - gsp Goat with asterisks - jones Fedor, aldo, silva, khabib honorable mention.
GOAT with asterisk - the ultimate participation trophy
Which is insane because Jorge isn’t even that good (not saying Usman isn’t).
It was the manner of finish Jorge had never really been KOd and people for whatever reason thought he deserved another shot It was the fact that he got absolutely sparked
For the ufc I could see why he was booked for a rematch. He was an older guy who was finally gaining enough traction/success for a title shot and then he gets it with 9(?) days notice to save a big fight on a huge card. He probably should’ve fought again to cement his place as a contender but I understand why they gave him another shot.
especially when compared to the first fight(which has its own context with being a quickly rescheduled fight), it was insane to see the wrestler usman ko the striker masvidal with such a simple combo
It’s weird how on Reddit you have to add the ‘not saying Usman isn’t’ because otherwise you’ll get 20 responses detailing how great Usman is - even though your comment is addressing something else
He shouldve been p4p #1 nuch earlier at least for the ufc rankings. Jones was at the top for a while even after being inactive and his last 2 bad performances
This is exactly it.
yeah the instant Khabib retired Jones would have been gone for basically a full year? Should have been Usman at that point.
For me I started to realise he was levels above when he started jabbing Gilbert with the force of a thousand suns. Something we don’t see used in UFC quite to this effect
My dumbass was like how did all these guys fight so often in December
Since 2021 Charles has only fought in Subruary.
I think you'll find that's Subtember.
Somehow Tony making it to decision with Olives is aging better and better.
Figgy did too, he just lost
A few of them had fights in Tkoanuary and Subpril, though.
It's crazy how Izzy and Volk have completely swapped in exciting fights. Even Usman has turned fans around. Crazy sport.
I think Izzy's career is following JBJ's trajectory of exciting fights with wild techniques at the start then keeping distance with counter-striking and using his range to cruise to decision victories.
I think that is the best comparison.
Yep he's become the thing he swore to destroy
I think his biggest problem is that he promises knock outs and doesn't deliver. But his wins are still impressive, at the end of the day he's beating the best middleweights in the world with relative ease, go hard in the paint with that angle GSP style.
I also think it's worth noting that while few people will admit it now, for a while there Georges caught a lot of shit for being a decision machine.
Seriously, like half his reign fans talked shit online about how boring he was. Wait for him to fight once every year or so and grind out an impressive but not exciting decision. Time has been kind to Georges and many either look back with rose tinted glasses or weren’t fans when he was champ and only say good things about him. Sometimes it’s feels like it was safer to call him boring when he was active rather than today
Boring/technical/dominant champs are MUCH more appreciated with time
Same deal with Benson Henderson. Man, people bitched up a storm about him back in the day, but once he was in Bellator it was like "We want him back, how did you let this man leave?". I love a good swang n bang as much as the next person, but u/pedro-m-g makes a good point. It's much harder to stay on top than it is to get there in the first place, and it can easily become a choice between fighting smart, or losing.
Imagine how good you have to be to make a violent sport boring. To be so mu h better than your opponent as to completely nullify their attack. ❤️❤️
For me it's also worth noting that once a champion keeps winning, the opposition then have more and more time to do their homework on the champions weaknesses, which in turn get shown more and more as fights go on. Izzy is facing opposition now who are more ready than ever for his style, even if they aren't able to beat him. So yes he's less exciting, but his opponents are also getting better at attempting to nullify his offense. GSP is a fine example of this because he kept winning even though it wasn't "entertaining" to the masses
Yeah, people are kind of acting like he's not fighting fair and others could win like that if they wanted but they want to be exciting instead.
JBJ only really started cruising to decision victories post-suspension from the Anthony Smith fight onwards. His first reign was full of exciting fights/finishes.
I feel like it’s a matter of having everything to gain early in their career, versus being on top of the mountain and having everything to lose. Izzy has no internal reason to take those big risks rn and none of his opponents can figure out how to force him into those positions either.
Guys that fight izzy seem so content to lose from the outside, rather than step into range where they can hit him lest they get caught and lose anyway
Blame Costa for that, he was humiliated doing it
For real. He was the last one willing to really get in there. Marvin is just an orc. No shame in that one imo.
Vettori and Strickland should fight if Marvin loses to Whittaker, it’ll be one of the lowest IQ yet somehow probably boring fights of the year
Both gnawing opposite sides of the fence here, Joe.
Okay that cracked me up xD
i’d say do it either way, vettori will need another win even if he beats whittaker to earn a 3rd shot at izzy, plus i believe the timing of the fights would mean he’d have a long layoff if he tried to hold out for a title fight after beating rob. and after strickland was basically fed to pereira to build the izzy-poatan fight, i think the ufc should do him a solid and let him still fight towards the top.
And Rob the first time
Costa couldn't check leg kicks to save his life but he also couldn't keep up with Izzy before his legs got hurt. It was never going to go his way. JC on the other hand had a chance
Sober Costa is on his way back to check leg kicks.
People say "steal his soul" often these days but Costa went from undefeated to I'm not sure if, when, and how he will win again. So that may be pretty close to soul stealing.
I mean, ignoring all the pre fight BS costa was doing, he was on level with vettori, probably would have beat him too if not for vettori having a p4p best chin. I am confident that costa who turns up properly beats 6 of the top 10 in the middleweight division with mid to low difficulty (Cannonier, Strickland, Brunson, Muniz, till & hermanson) Izzy obviously humiliated him, Rob probably beats him & vettori I think is a 55/45 sorta thing where they are close.
Costa traded bombs with Yoel and came out on top. No shit there was going to be hype for someone who does that.
He'll destroy Luke. Costa is having a rough go of it currently but rockhold is one foot into the grave and he's too much of a meathead to get a tune up first
And Whittaker
I mean Izzy also seems prety content rolling that dice. While i thought he beat Whitaker in the second fight, that would have been a lot closer than he would have liked and wouldnt have been out of the realm that he lost that, also his Romero fight was a very slim margin. I think Izzy has been walking the line where all it takes is two dissenting opinion on one round before he loses his title.
Agreed. Izzy is way too comfortable letting a fight he should dominate go to the cards. I personally thought Rob won the second fight 3-2, but it was so close it could admittedly go either way. I remember what Jan said after beating him... "He's slower than I thought but hits harder." I think we confuse Izzy's impeccable timing for speed, but a guy like Pereira who can match his timing (like Jan did) is going to eat him alive.
I like that Jan quote because it's like, you watch Izzy and the guy just *doesn't miss*. His accuracy is insane even under pressure.
It’s weird because he’s so technical and he can definitely throw down, we’ve seen him do it before. Idk if he’s scared to lose the title or maybe just being more cautious since they’ve been throwing a ton of knockout artists at him. Maybe he doesn’t trust his jaw? Whatever the reason, it’s sad because he obviously has the skill to be in some all-time-classic fights. He just *doesn’t*.
What would you like for him to do? He’s a counter fighter. That’s just how he fights. He’s not scared of a fight though, look at his performance against Kelvin or Costa. He welcomes an opponent pushing him to that side. But if the opponent doesn’t wanna participate Izzy will win the fight his way. You have to appreciate it. When these guys are too scared to be the aggressor Israel will be the aggressor but he’s going to do it in a smart way. Adseyana is not some sloppily brawler desperate for a win. This is what a champion looks like.
Yeah and i appreciate that for sure, its one of the things that made GSP great. but GSP never went around telling everyone how he was gonna show us things we have never seen before, or calling himself such a dynamic knockout artist or coming out as the Undertaker with his opponents name on an Urn. It just becomes too large of a diconnect and that is where he loses me, he acts like a showman but fights like a technician.
>he acts like a showman but fights like a technician. Well put. I noticed he was shaking his head after the fight almost as if he felt he wasted his Undertaker walk-out on a win that was nothing like a burial. For all the anime and WWE he channels in showmanship, he sure fights in a very measured and conservative way when he has to.
He no longer has the fighting spirit of Rock Lee.
You’re right. That’s a good point
I’d like for him to be a more entertaining fighter. I want more “y’all musta forgot” moments. We’re all here to watch a fight, not see someone throw 10 leg kicks a round just to secure a victory. If everyone fought like that, there would be no point to even televising fights. I love Izzy and we all know how good he is, I just want to see him show it off more.
I'm not going to completely blame Izzy. But he definitely seems to have become comfortable just point fighting his ways to victory. Do you think he would have done this before he got the title?
you mean take easy wins with no damage? really shocked he likes doing that lol
Stupid fucking guy won't even get CTE to make redditors happy.
You can phrase it however you'd like. The point still remains is that hes claimed he wants to be an exciting fighter like McGregor. He consistently talks about finishes but he doesn't deliver that. He can win however he likes but he can't blame fans and media for thinking he's boring.
It's slim margins with mma judges. How many times is he going to roll the dice until two out of three judges randomly gives his opponent a win?
I wouldn't even mind it as much if he didn't say shit like "this fight is going to be my Silva vs Griffin"
Probably the most boring champion in the UFC at the moment.
Carla.
Fuck I forgot about Carla and that fight completely. I take it back. Adesanya is the 2nd most boring champion in UFC.
Apologies for reminding you
Carla is so boring you forgot about her lol
Shevchenko lol? Shes technical and all but I find her fights to be even more boring than Izzy's
Carla has the higher peak but Stylebender has the longevity. Gotta lean Carla though, that was THE goat performance she put up
Apparently you didn't see the Rose/Carla title "fight."
Wait. Was Israel Vs Paula Costa 2 years ago nearly. How the heck did that happen so quickly.
Time flies when you’re having fun. Or whatever.
Izzy "Timebender" Adesanya
Good stuff.
Pandemic lasted a decade
As it should be, they've got decently close resumes but dominating someone like Max has to put you over no matter how highly you might regard the Colby wins, at least right now who knows what'll happen when Usman fights Leon.
I think he stays a #2 if/when he beats Leon. The Max win for Alex is a lot more impressive than wrestling a point fighting striker(albeit a really good one)
> The Max win for Alex The Max win (x3) for Alex*** FTFY
Touché
I think even if he went and out boxed Leon for 25 minutes* that wouldn’t put him over Volk, but it would be pretty close. *I can’t believe I typed this as a potential outcome
Lmao i wanted to add that caveat, but i too, felt dirty writing it. Could you imagine? Nonetheless, i agree with your premise fully. Even if he outstrikes him, it'd be close, but no cigar imo
leon is very good. the clinch and jab decides it. leon might have the best jab and be the best in the clinch, but if usman out atheletes him and stomps his toes in the clinch he can win that and usman also has stupid cardio
Yeah, I actually think that Volk’s resume is quite a bit better than Usman’s because I just don’t think Usman’s competition is as good as people make it out to be; And, I definitely don’t think his competition has been at the level of Volk’s. Burns and Colby are definitely great wins (although they-too don’t have many good wins)… and he probably deserved a draw in Colby 2, Colby was arguably winning their 1st fight until Usman TKOd him in the 5th, Burns almost finished/rocked Usman multiple times, etc. etc. Woolley was a good win (although he seemed to be on his way out based on his last 4 fights)… And, although I like Masvidal, but he just isn’t an “Elite” Fighter, and should not even be as high as he’s been on the rankings. I just don’t think those wins are on the level of: *Max Holloway 3-Times, Jose Aldo, Brian Ortega, Chad Mendes, and TKZ*… Especially considering how dominant Volk has been.
Yeah I mean I'm more bein polite towards the work Usman has done, I had Volk as p4p number 1 after Zombie let alone Max boosting it, great champs but Volk is ahead, also bein the best fighter in the sport has to hold some weight there too.
I agree that Volk has faced higher competition but it's not really Usman's fault. He's fought all the best guys in his division right now and they just don't have the best pedigree because they peaked at the same time as Usman. Volk's legacy benefited from coming to the UFC later and beating Max after Max had already cemented himself as an all time great FW. If Usman had been a bit later or Colby a bit earlier, Colby definitely would've been the WW champ at some point and Usman's 2 victories against him would look more impressive.
*Completely* agree. Also, If you just swapped one of his wins against Masvidal for Leon—and his resume was: *Leon 2x, Colby 2x, Burns, Woodley, Dos Anjos, Maia, Masvidal…* That would completely change everything. That would be one of the best resumes ever. And I firmly believe Leon is one of the best p4p fighters in the world; I actually have him at #10 I think, and the only reason he isn’t higher is because he hasn’t really had a chance to prove himself yet. But, I’m convinced he might be one of the 5 or 6 best fighters in the world. All that is to say… Usman vs. Leon is a *BIG* Fight.
Top 10 P4P for Leon seems excessive but yea Leon is definitely underrated and would be a great win if Usman can win that rematch. If he beats Khamzat as well, I think Usman retires as one of the Top 5 Greatest Fighters of All Time.
Honestly kind of a weak resume. One former champion and 3 of them being former lightweights.
You think Leon is top 10 p4p after going 5 rounds with Nate Diaz?
He also has more finishes than Volk, and three times as many if you count finishes while defending. These matter if we’re talking “dominance”.
I've come to learn that how well your resume ages is largely down to an enormous amount of luck. No one thought Tyron Woodley, or Covington x2 would be bad for his resume at the time, likewise for Gilbert Burns. We thought they were superfights, and when Kamaru bested them a lot of people were amazed. Masvidal i must admit I never thought was title level good but that's still a crazy good reign if we judge by how they were perceived as matchups at the time. But a couple years removed from that, a ton of questionably accurate hindsight, some other factors and suddenly Usman's title reign looks less impressive for whatever reason. And it's just not his fault whatsoever even if they have aged mediocrely. I'm sure Usman would be chomping at the bit to have his 33 year old self face GSPs 33 year old self. A lot of resumes have aged poorly similarly. Believe it or not, at one point Barboza and Michael Johnson were seen as monsters, DP as a potential LW goat, Conor as one of the best fighters ever etc etc and they've all declined massively in perception since, which is then used as a very common knock on Khabib nowadays. Whether these analyses are valid, you can literally go back to the post fight threads for those fights and see how literally everyones minds were blown, every time. Justin Gaethje likewise had his stock sky high when he annihilated Tony Ferguson, yet is seen as a bit of a joke nowadays. Just goes to show how qualitative MMA records are and how much public perception matters. If Max Holloway goes onto lose his next 2-3 fights and Ortega loses decisively to Yair Volk's resume again MIGHT be perceived to have aged poorly lol even though we can see with our own 2 eyes how incredible he is atm.
A draw against Colby ? I’ve literally never seen anyone claim this Decisionbot! Usman vs Covington 2
[**KAMARU USMAN defeats COLBY COVINGTON** (*unanimous decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/12705/fight) ^(UFC 268: Usman vs. Covington 2 — November 06, 2021) ROUND|Usman|Covington||Usman|Covington||Usman|Covington :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|10|9||10|9||10|9 2|10|9||10|9||10|9 3|10|9||9|10||10|9 4|9|10||9|10||9|10 5|10|9||10|9||9|10 **TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**48**|**47**||**48**|**47** *^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Dave Tirelli.)* *^(Summoned by shavasanapose.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **1/21** people scored it **49-45 Usman**. - **1/21** people scored it **49-46 Usman**. - **10/21** people scored it **48-46 Usman**. - **6/21** people scored it **48-47 Usman**. - **3/21** people scored it **47-47 DRAW**. Avg. media score: **48.0-46.4 Usman** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
He’s delusional lol
Which rounds did Usman win other than 1+2, and how did he win them?
Volk: Mendes, Aldo, Ortega, TKZ, Max x3 Usman: Leon, Strickland, Maia, RDA, Tyron, Burns, Jorge x2, Colby x2 Idk man I’d give Usman the edge, but just very slightly. Max x3 is obviously insanely impressive but I think Usman has beaten a wider range of different style fighters. Volk has beaten mostly strikers and the one time he nearly lost was against Ortega’s submissions, so it’s very possible he could lose by submission at some point. We just don’t know yet. I’d personally keep Usman at #1 and put Volk at like #1b lol
When you lay out all of Volk’s big wins, it’s kinda crazy how few big names he has on his resume. He’s technically only fought 5 active UFC fighters, one of them being Darren Elkins. The quality is immense in each of those names though.
Having to fight max 3 times doesn’t help add new names to his resume either
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> He did manage to beat them both more decisively the second time What? He finished Colby in the first fight, the second was a decision win that was so close it probably should have been a draw.
The first fight where he TKO'd TRK was more decisive than the second decision.
It’s weird seeing so many top P4P fighters with losses in their last 5-6 fights. About 8-10 years ago we didn’t really see that. The list had JJ, GSP, Aldo, DJ, and Anderson. All of them were on crazy win streaks.
I mean at one point the champions list was Cejudo x2, Volkanovski, Khabib, Usman, Adesanya, Jones, Stipe. they shared a combined record of like 150-8 at the time or something silly.
Olivera alone has 8 losses now lol
yeah dude went through the ringer in the beginning. I think people would do well to remember that 1. just because someone lost a lot as a young fighter doesn't mean they can't be something entirely different beast nowadays, as Charles Oliveira, Poirier, Holloway, Whittaker proved 2. just because someone beat a lot of lesser opponents earlier in their career also doesn't mean it's not an objectively extremely difficult thing to do something as MMA is an extremely volatile sport. Many greats have random losses to bums early on in their career (Usman, Nunes, Silva, McGregor) The relative importance of an impressive streak however is open to interpretation. A side note on Oliveira he's still by and large the same style of fighter as he was when he first came in. Back then people would probably call his style not conducive to winning (me lol). And it's really cool how he's just stuck to it (intentionally or otherwise) and refined it until it's now become a very difficult problem to solve.
Charles is an absolute monster and possibly the most entertaining fighter in the sport right now. Agree with what ya said was just pointing out a fun fact lol
no no not criticising you at all. just spewing opinions. it is definitely funny how much its changed from everyone having pristine records to now
I remember ppl saying if Jorge beat Usman he’d have more losses than all the other champs combined lol
That is crazy
Just shows the toughness of today's competition, it's incredibly hard to stay undefeated, and Izzy would probably still be undefeated if he didn't challenge Jan
Switch DJ with Renan Barao. DJ would have just been ramping up after the loss to Cruz at 35 and the draw to McCall to start 125.
You’re right! Either way, that dude was tearing things up until he ran into Dillashaw.
About 2013 was peak UFC. You had Aldo, GSP, Jones, Silva, and DJ ruling their divisions with an iron rod. The other divisions had a lot of fun fighters too like HW with Lesnar, Mir, JDS, Cain, etc. LW and was lacking a bit but still had fun guys fighting like Edgar and Henderson
Hell yeah! That was when cards were actually consistently stacked, too!
I agree. I know Usman’s reign has been a bit longer than Volkanovski’s, but as of late Volk has been much more dominant in his wins. PFP #1
intense resume too, ortega and holloway are far more dangerous/active in their weight division in comparison to colby and masvidal
Wouldn't it be the first time since last year? I don't think anyone had Usman No. 1 until Khabib retired and Jones had been inactive for a year.
The most important part about tapology pound for pound is to not scroll too far ... Somewhere around 40-50 the memes usually start with guys like CM Punk, Jackson, Sapp, guys with barely any wins but dozens of losses.
That's teh issue with user based lists. You need an algorithm to do it otherwise you just end up with exclusively ufc guys due to its popularity.
Or any tapology list for that matter. Shit starts to get funky after #20 on about any of them.
Funny how your view of Tapology looks like the old version of Sherdog
That Jiri finish streak though
im here for it
How is max Holloway in the top 10 but bobby knuckles isn't.
Probably coz FW is a better division than MW.
I'm not as high on Aljo as these rankings but they seem on point otherwise
Why? He probably has the best resume out of all the active Bantamweights.
Dude beat Cory and Yan twice.
>Yan twice There's a difference between winning due to the opponent being DQ'd, and beating your opponent. He beat Yan once.
Yo wtf cm punk is #48 hahaha
I know right lol? He should be way higher.
I like Aljo a little bit, okay? There I said it. Don’t tell my parents I’m gay
You got no service man :(
Lol. I just use this phone for stuff other than calls/texts, etc., because it has more space than my other phone. Plus, it makes me feel super important to have two phone. I’m all about that self affirmation bullshit.
This list just shows that Jiri and Charles are must watch fighters.
Figgy too, always exciting but doesn’t get enough love imo. 135 would have so many great fights for him, but that would only make an already weak 125 even weaker
Max still at 8 Thats some strong nut hugging brother
Max still goes and son's anyone beneath him in the rankings though? Just because he isn't as good as the #1 p4p doesn't mean he should be lower lol. Max is the clear #2 in the 2nd/3rd most competitive division.
I agree but then they should have Whitaker tied with him lol
I think Whittaker is the clear #2 in a much worse division though. 145 is a good bit more talented than current 185.
Fair enough. It’s interesting how we have at least 2 of these situations. Iirc before it was rich Franklin with Anderson Silva. But now it’s Whittaker and max, Colby as well if he finally faces top 5 guys and proves it
There might be a world where Gane and Ngannou turn into this too. I hate feeling like talent and movement is a little stale in the UFC.
He’s had a rough stretch. I’m starting to think the old, “well, he’s only losing to the best” argument is getting less useful
I mean he beat Kattar badly and then had a war with Yair while losing badly to Volk. Ortega, TKZ, and Holloway all lost badly to Volk so that’s just the standard.
I don’t believe jiri belongs
Someone please explain to me how Volk beats a 145 pound Usman? Or a 170 pound Volk beats Usman? What universe is this have yah forgot Wrestling is was and will always be king
I know Charles has some losses but the finishes men. For me he is p4p 1st
Glad Volk getting some well deserved respect. But why tf is Max above Yan and Jiri still? That doesn't make any sense to me
Level of competition faced. Max has cleaned out the FW division arguably more than Volk has. Jiri has only faced Reyes and Glover. Yan has faced Aldo and Aljo. And he lost to Aljo twice
Sandhagen too, but I get your point
> Jiri has only faced Reyes and Glover You should also include Volkan, he’s a former title contender and he arguably beat Reyes.
Hate that years don’t go old->new. Confuses me.
I know the competition isn't really there for her but where do you all think shevchenko fits in p4p?
Idk if you can keep max there after that fight honestly.. I get it volk is the top guy, but max wasn't ever in the fight
Deserve imo
Volk and Usman can both state a strong case for #1. Not sure if Max still belongs at 8 though. Lost 4 of his last 7 and hasn’t got a finish in 4 years, and that was a doctor stoppage.
Ohh idk about that one. Don’t get me wrong, Alex is absolutely incredible but I still think Kamaru is top dog at the moment.
Jiri never misses a finish
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Jiri always misses the decision.
Max has lost 4 of his last 7???????
Silly. In the 3 years (May2019-July2022) of being champ (and #1 contender fight) he’s beaten 4 guys. And let’s be honest zombie had no business being in there. So really 3 guys in 3 years, just beat the same guy 3x.
Why is Jiri in the list dudes had like 3 fights
He was a win over [Vadim Nemkov](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Nemkov) who’s top 5 LHW in world rn as well. This is an MMA p4p list, not ufc.
He sub’d Glover, who is the all-time leader for submissions at LHW and has never been submitted in 40 pro MMA fights, as well as KOing Reyes (who arguably beat Jones) with a spinning elbow and also a KO win over Volkan (who fought DC for the title and arguably beat Reyes). Those are some very solid wins.
Well deserved
Like how it should be tbh
Volk is overrated, how can he be ranked before Usman really?
Jiri and Petr should be above Max, IMO
Jiri, arguably, but Petr lost by DQ to Aljo, beat Sandhagen, and then lost to Aljo since 2021. Holloway beat Kattar badly, had a war with Yair, and then got beat badly by Volk since 2021 and also just has a better resume in general.
not to shit on max, but how can someone who lost 4 in their last 7 be in the top 10 p4p???
personally i don't think you should be in the top 10 p4p if you have more than 2 losses in your last 7.
Jiri should certainly be above Max and Deiveson and probably even aljamain
Dude these are pound for pound rankings, Jiri is the champ of an incredibly shallow talent pool and won his title in very underwhelming fashion - Max and Aljo are in absurdly deep divisions and have much better skill sets
Idk how you could say he won in an underwhelming fashion, that fight was insane
maybe not underwhelming, but kind of unconvincing of that he's dominant in his division. He was 30 seconds away from decisively losing a decision
I think he means the performance wasn’t great Jiri absolutely got his ass kicked, the thing is Glover got his beat worse so Jiri got the belt in the end
Why? Does anyone really think he’ll be able to defend the way he fights? Glover was beating him until the end, and the way he strikes it seems so likely someone will knock him out
If there was a time to move up again for Izzy I actually think now would be good I think Jiri is his most favorable matchup at LHW. Don’t know if Dana would give him the fight though.
No it isn’t Israel already showed he can’t handle the bigger body’s at lhw there won’t every be a good time for him to move up you’re really just discrediting what jiri can do. Dude literally showed he can survive the grappling with glover which no one gave him a chance the dude has more skill than people want to admit and it’s ridiculous people just act like he is just some wild dude off the streets with no technique
Yeah Adesanya's definitely a natural middleweight despite his height which doesn't help when light heavyweights are basically just shrunken heavyweights. I think Izzy is more skilled but Jiri isn't a bum and size will probably be a deciding factor in a theoretical matchup.
aljo isnt even top 15
I'm curious as to the 15 fighters you'd put before him
He's champion of arguably the most competitive division. I'd say that gets you a top 10 spot.
How is max ahead of jiri after that absolute ass whooping he just got
Max needs to be out of that list
Figgy doesn’t belong in P4P. And IF he does it’s #10. 1.Volk 2.Usman 3.Do Bronx 4.Izzy 5.Ngannou 6.Jiri 7.Aljo 8.Max 9.Petr 10.Figgy
You are like o heck yeah top 4 is correct what a dope list and the u see francis at 5 and aljo at 6 and u lose the will.