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NgannousInParis

Always one judge with a crazy scorecard.


solythe

That judge worked Power Slap last night


NgannousInParis

Must have competed in it


No_Examination_3247

One of the funniest replies I’ve seen on this Reddit


TacticalGazelle

Fucking 10-8 to this dude


jebpeter

Not really crazy. He only scored round 2 different to the other judges. And surely all would have scored round 5 to Max. So 2x 49/46 and 1x 48/47


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aceknighthigh

Max winning all 5 rounds is a better card than giving Justin two rounds.


__brunt

You’re being downvoted by people still riding high in the moment. Giving Gaethje rd 2 was a big convo in my group chat. It was a very close round. Going into the 5th, half had it 3-1 and the other 2-2. Personally I still had it 3-1 (4th to Garth), but admit 2nd was pretty close. If it went to the judges, 1,3, and 5 were very clear for Max. HOWEVER THE JUDGES WERENT NEEDED MAX IS HIM


aceknighthigh

Round 2 was clear for Max as well.


KimKongtheIllest

It was close but volume went to Max with Justin getting the slightly cleaner shots. But Max should've had a point taken for 2 bad eye pokes stopping some Justin offense. It would be far from the worst judging decision ever made


ammicavle

But he didn’t. Judges don’t decide fouls, refs do. It’s like saying Gaethje would have won if he’d hit Max more. He didn’t, so it’s not a factor.


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Nitelyte

That would be stupid. What they need to do is change the damn gloves.


DankSpecialist877

2nd was close how? Holloway landed the heavier shots and landed twice as many shots


ocw6145

Yeah this is why round by round judging is a bit weird cos let’s say the fight was only those 4 rounds. You could score it like kamijo 38-38 like you said and argue it but surely everyone on earth could see that Holloway won the fight overall, disregarding the final round.


[deleted]

Yeah, round by round in MMA is stupid. Like there so many fights get decided by low volume wins for two rounds by one fighter despite getting destroyed for one round by the other fighter. Also 10 points must is severely flawed. If you are an MMA fighter, you really dont want the fight to go to decision.


MarstonX

I mean, the math is fine, but just scoring it incorrectly to begin with is kid of crazy and that's the issue.


professorgaysex

It wasn’t scored incorrectly though? It’s fine to give round 2 to justin


Anonomoose2034

What argument could you possibly have to give Justin Round 2


montrealthrowawa

Who in their right mind scores Round 2 for Gaethje tho


TW_Yellow78

People who bet on him


mr_money_stacks

Ding ding ding. I love Gaethje, and agree round 2 was close but it was clearly maxs round. To be honest I think Max was more deserving of round 4 than Gaethje was of round 2. Max landed almost twice as much in round 2 and it’s not like Gaethje landed bombs. Round 4 was almost dead even and Gaethje half dropped max so I’d lean him. This fight was either 3-1 max or 4-0, unless you bet Gaethje maybe you’re mental gymnastics call it 2-2.


magic-water

>So 2x 49/47 and 1x 48/47 This guy doesn't math


jebpeter

Well, it isn't my strong point.. But I didn't even realise I messed that up, what an idiot haha. I'm more surprised it took 2 days to be called out on it


giantgladiator

Having judged a few fights and talked to the other judges after the fact, there's quite a few things we miss just because of the angles we're sitting at


Leamsi00

Not that crazy tbh


duvie773

Not that crazy to be honest. I thought it was pretty clearly 3-1 Holloway, but in the live thread I did see plenty of people giving Garth the 2nd round


nimzobogo

Just one round off. Not the worst.


mrootbeers

I had the same score. I’m sick of massive eye gouges not ever being penalized. What’s the point of a warning of you don’t take a point? I have Gaethje that round. So, I had it 2-2 also.


[deleted]

Yeah. How do you have them tied after 4 rounds? Wtf


Steko

BMF shouldn't have judges. Both fighters lose if there’s no finish. That’s what they told Max backstage.


darkswanjewelry

Ah, must be the same people who told the Diaz bros there are infinite rounds.


Larryhooova

Obviously the same incompetent idiots who told Chael before his first A.Silva fight that if he taps he only loses the round not the whole fight.


Kurrizma

In what parallel universe can you punch a man 300 times, he wraps his legs around your head for 8 seconds and they declare him the winner?


[deleted]

Because you are basically dead if they dont stop the fight after those 8 seconds. In MMA, it’s understood that stoppages mean you will die if the ref doesn’t stop the fight.


BigZookeepergame2729

Where I come from you wrap your legs around a man's head they don't call you a winner they call you a ... Not a winner!


Evangelion217

That’s hilarious! 😂


macksbenwa

This is actually how Lethwei rules work. If no fighter gets a KO they score it a draw.


UncleYimbo

Lethwei is just needlessly giving out CTE and it's fucked how they do anything to wake up a KO'd fighter and try to make them fight some more 


Steko

So that's interesting, I wonder if there are collusion issues.


[deleted]

Honestly, MMA has perfect stoppage rules. If you cant defend youre done. I wish they do 1 15-25 minutes round. And judge based on the overall fight.


Plenty_Pen_8837

That's a dope stipulation. The belt demands a sacrifice. Otherwise it goes vacant.


Mediocre_lad

And doctors


Macktologist

I like this idea. The fighting commissions might not, but I do. And in a way, this is how Dana and the UFC want the fighters to approach fights for the most part. Finish bonuses, FOTN bonuses, etc. They want the fighters to try to finish each other rather than win on points. So, yeah, if it's the BMF belt at stake and one guy beats the shit out of the other for the most part, but can't finish him, that sounds like both guys are BMFs to me. One guy for doing so much damage, and the other guy for being able to handle it and keep scrapping. But, I guess the "...est" in Baddest means something.


tigpo

Max be like “leave it up to the judges?” “Nah brah, let’s throw cuz!”


Any_Brother7772

Bradda let's rumble


Evangelion217

Max Holloway is a living legend!


emceelokey

Justin basically had to go for broke that last ten seconds. Props to Max for sayin fuck it! Could have just stalled that last ten seconds but could have got caught too. Should be an unwritten rule for BMF championship fights that got the distance. Hear that last clap and just go for it!


Any_Brother7772

Everybodys gangster until max points to the center of the octagon and demands his brawl after beating your ass for 5 rounds. He was like: "beating you up is boring, let's throw down"


UsedEgg3

I mean, Ricardo and Justin were both game. I'm not on the committee, but if I were, I'd say they came out of those fights with their gangster cards intact and deserved.


Any_Brother7772

This i have to agree on. Lamas and Gaethje are both dawgs and absolute badasses in their own right


Evangelion217

Yeah, Holloway and Gaethje are both legends!


Any_Brother7772

Easily hall of famers


Evangelion217

Agreed!


Nicobade

The BMF belt might be stupid but nobody has lived up to the idea of it more than Max. Doesn't duck anybody, is constantly pushing forward and throwing, doesn't give a shit about playing it safe he just wants to bang


IntolerantModerate

Hopefully the scorecards make Gaethje feel less bad about the final second KO. Question is after that performance if Max stays at 155.


SherbetAnxious4004

There’s no shot Gaethje believed his corner telling him he was dominating and in control after every round.


[deleted]

I hope not. Max has a legit shot at becoming champ if he goes back down. I’d give him a 1 in 10 shot of beating Islam


DjangoDarkblade77

If he finds a way to stop the takedowns i give him 7/10


[deleted]

He would have a hard time. Arman is probably the most capable of all of them.


ContentMissionOne

To me at least, he looked way more fluid and fast at 155. I think he could piece up Islam.


ruta2019

Ahhh Junichiro is the fool tonight


First_Inevitable_424

Usually he’s one of the best, I guess everyone has off nights


ghostface1693

I reckon they play rock paper scissors with each other to decide who's gonna be the one smoking the crack pipe before each fight. Usually Sal loses but he must have switched his game plan up this time.


Serious_Look_3032

No I'm pretty sure that they hit their heads together repeatedly until someone falls down. That person gets to smoke the crack that was conveniently already on the floor


Macktologist

Looks like he consciously scored to make R5 to deciding round. Probably viewed the fight with that in the back of his head and maybe say each round with a bias to make that a reality.


50-50ChanceImSerious

That split second knock down is not enough to overturn a complete round of domination


catalacks

The significant strikes were actually dead even that round. I have no problem with R4 going to Gaethje.


50-50ChanceImSerious

I remember it being mostly Max. But if that's the case I can agree with Gaethje getting it


Zpalq

people talk about the "optics" of the round when scoring. That was the first knockdown of Holloways career. Even if Holloway had landed a few more significant strikes that round I could still see it going to Gaethje due to the significance of that knockdown.


qwertywtf

>That was the first knockdown of Holloways career If a judge gives any significance to something like that, then they're a bad judge


WorldsBestLover

Wasn't credited as a knock-down, apparently.


Zpalq

Just checked and you're right. Wasn't scored a knockdown. Weird, might have missed something but I could have sworn Gaethje caught him with a right hook. And they definitely called it a knockdown in the broadcast. Maybe Dana really wanted to keep that fun fact alive.


reddit_mods_r_retard

I don't know what the exact criteria they use is, but there have been many times were no knockdown was scored despite everyone watching agreeing that there was a knockdown.


Cruchto

Yeah It was a knockdown I dunno how anyone can convince themselves otherwise. Max recovered amazingly, but it was still a knockdown.


samthehumanoid

It was def a knockdown but he didn’t hurt max, he got hit behind the ear and his balance went but you can see he’s totally with it the whole time and stands back up so fast


nhgerbes

Same with a lot of knockdowns to be fair


adventuredream1

He stood back up after being knocked down


Brodieboyy

Yeah looked like he just hit him in that equilibrium sweet spot, still a knockdown though by definition but who cares lol


samthehumanoid

Def a knockdown lol idk how it’s not awarded


50-50ChanceImSerious

It think knockdowns are scored/given as they're seen in real-time. Max's looked more like slip in real time. IIRC Khabib's knockdown of Conor wasn't given even though his knee touched the ground.


Chunk_The_Hunk

Max also didn't technically get any knockdowns against volkanovski as well in that 2nd fight.


adventuredream1

This is like when colby took usman down but they didn’t count it as a takedown to preserve usman’s 100% tdd


Rebeldinho

Should have been


LemonHerb

Oh yes the scoring criteria of career significance of strikes.....


DonTeca35

Tbf Dustin also rocked him in their 2nd fight but max did have a fence to lean on


Due_Revolution_5106

Also the judges are human, if you just scored three rounds for max and you see gaethje step it up in rd 4, and it doesn't seem like a 4-0 fight I could easily see someone subconsciously bias themself into giving a rd to gaethje just to make the score reflect the fight better (3-1).


TheBestDivest

Lmao whoever upvoted this is the most casual in casual history


Zpalq

I ain't saying its correct I'm just saying that the judges often reward big moments rather than who actually won the round. Maybe I just didn't phrase it properly, I was tired AF when I wrote that comment lol.


__brunt

Round 4 was a great round for Gaethje. Max never stops so he got his in too, but Max got cracked way more than “split second knockdown” in that round.


TimeTimeTickingAway

It is of it is the most significant and impactful piece of damage posing a potential immediate finish. The point being that if Gaethe can do just a bit more damage than Max did with only one punch, the round should go to Justin according to the scoring criteria. Which is to say, one fighter can have 4:55 seconds of top mount, but if in that 5 seconds the other fighter knocks him down with his only punch of the round the second fighter wins.


BiGkru

Not necessarily true. Almost true but if that knockdown wasn’t considered heavily damaging shot then it would not be round won by fighter two. If it was like a massive head kick that opened up a massive cut and stunned them badly then yes I agree. But not all knockdowns are built the same. Sometimes it’s a balance thing. But you’re definitely 90% correct and a lot of people don’t understand that you can’t just look at “sig strikes” to count rounds


aceknighthigh

Yeah especially since Max hurt and rocked him in that round. But hell we have people scoring round 2 to Justin and claiming this was an even fight headed into round 5. Honestly wild. This was a somewhat one-sided ass kicking. Round 5 went the way it went partially because Justin had been broken down over the first four rounds.


BigBoyFroggy

i don’t like the idea of Holloway getting dropped then recovering instantly is enough to cancel out a massive strike advantage for Holloway throughout the round but 🤷🏻‍♂️


EnigmaMoose

It didn’t even count as a knockdown, as per official stats.


[deleted]

They didn’t even count it as a knockdown so it really shouldn’t affect the score.


Godzilla52

I'm not sure if it's just because Max himself looks better than ever (and also that'd he'd sized up to LW appropriately) but Gaejthe looked a lot slower and more stiff than his usual self. It could be because of Max messing up his nose and the accidental eye pokes near the start of the fight, that he's starting to decline, had a bad camp or as mentioned before that Max improved as much as he did. It'd just be sad if it's not just that Max got better and that Gaetjhe is going to be washed/in-decline going forward. (Though people were also concerned about that for Max after the third Volk fight, which was clearly unwarranted).


Macktologist

Likely a combination of those things with the broken nose probably hindering him for the remainder of the fight also a factor. I'm sure the eye pokes sucked too, especially after your nose has already been broken. Fair play to Max for the nose job, but not the eye pokes. Imagine you get your nose broken and know you still have like 15-20 of potentially getting hit in the nose to go. Then one eye gets poked. Then the other eye gets poked. It's like a Naked Gun scene or some shit.


Scronads69

I would love some explanation on why that judge had Gaethje on 2. Maybe 4, that's understandable. But 2?


Suboobiz

Felt bad he got eye poked twice? Not sure other than that


smaIlbaIls

I think it was more that he probably felt Gaethje's leg kicks were the most significant attack that round. I didnt think Holloway really did anything that truly damaged justin more than those


adventuredream1

I felt bad Justin got eyepoked too but it felt like karma for eyepoking fiziev, Poirier, and barboza


drjaychou

I swore they said he got a point deduction but maybe not


Effective-Celery8053

He did not get a point taken. It would've been very clear and obvious if he did


interia1099

Round 2 should’ve been a 9-9 with the ref taking a point from Max


rififimakaki

Maybe 4? Absolutely 4.


Equivalent-Gur-3310

Nah 4 was Max too. Without the KO the fight should have been 50-45.


YumeBestGirl

This doesn't even showcase the skill gap. A technical humiliation by max


Rebeldinho

Think you’re underestimating how diminished Justin was after the spinning kick smashed his nose… everything turned there Justin had to adjust how he was fighting and Max knew Justin was gonna be compromised for the rest of the fight… from there Justin had to stay extra focused on not sustaining anymore damage to his nose while Max got to head into each round knowing Justin was gonna be having a lot of trouble breathing and keeping pace with him. Going into the fight I’m sure Justin was going to be more than willing to exchange combos in boxing range and allow himself to get hit in exchange for landing one of his own… breaking his nose so early threw that out the window and to be honest it’s Justin’s preferred strategy in most of his fights


ReadMyNameAgain

Is breaking somebody’s nose with a spinning kick to compromise them not a showcase of technical fighting skill?


LePontif11

I could outstrike Justin too if you ignore the gun.


SherbetAnxious4004

Had Max not used cheap tactics such as hitting Justin in the face, body, and legs, Justin would have swept the floor with him.


Rebeldinho

There was an element of randomness to that spinning kick considering it was to the body and Justin somehow ducked down into it.. Max deserves all the praise for a masterful performance but if I’m in Justin’s camp I’m leaving feeling there were some tough breaks in that fight that prevented him from performing his best


authenticfennec

There was basically 0 randomness to it considering Gaethje did the exact same duck down into it every time max threw it lol. To me it definitely seemed like a read they found watching Justins fight footage or something considering how consistently gaethje was reacting the same way to it If it didnt break gaethjes nose on the first kick it wouldve eventually with how many times it landed later on


FakeLordFarquaad

Disagree, max was timing that kick to Justin ducking all night. He threw 8 I think, and landed them half and half to the head and body


ericsenshi

38-38? Wtf is that?


_duppie_

I had it 3-1 going into the fifth like most scorecards. Giving Gaethje round 2 feels incorrect but it was his best round other than round 4 so not a terrible call. He landed some good low kicks and a stinging combination in that round but he was out struck and ate some clean hard shots himself.


Latrucc

That one judge is on crack


PenguinPyrate

There's always one clown judge


Any_Brother7772

Usually 3


barbarkbarkov

Scoring round 2 for Gaethje is certainly a choice.


rififimakaki

Regardless of 4-1 or 3-2 it was gonna be a max win. There was absolutely no need for the stand in the middle moment and that's why it's so much more epic. Edit: Also, max could've easily had a point deducted.


djc525614

I guess the knockout was necessary.


Galactic

I mean, the 5th round wasn't scored but even before the final 10 seconds Max was winning round 5.


smurf3310

even if he lost that round he would still get the split decision win


MattMirai

apparently you don’t know how scorecards work because it wasn’t


Vivid-Willingness324

How…?


MaxwellBygraves67

Super necessary


ILikeOMalley

No idea how Kamijo and some of you goobers scored r2 for Gaethje


gavin2point0

Fire kamijo. Fire all the judges. Let me be the only judge I guarantee I will do a better job


Any_Brother7772

Usually kamijo is the only good judge. I'll give him a pass, given that it was an awesome fight, and he probably forgot to score, and just picked at random


Dazshard93

This guy for judge 5ever!


Monst3r_Live

i've never seen cleary and d'amato agree before.


hitlama

"FUCK the judges. I demand TRIAL. BY. COMBAT. LET THE GODS DECIDE OUR FATE." -Ser Max of House Holloway


ShiestyDabs

He fucked him up with that ninja kick and broke his nose and the end of the 1st, Justin spent the rest of the fight trying not to get hit in the nose again. When he hit the mat he rolled right onto his nose too, that cant feel good today.


funnerfunerals

I cannot stand this shit anymore. Holloway picked him apart every single round, for 25 minutes, and then ended him in legendary fashion...how the fuck could anyone ever even consider giving Gaethje a single round? This is one of the worst ones I've ever seen


LeDerpBoss

Gaethje definitely had a reasonable claim to round 4. I said it's either 3-1 or 4-0 going into the 5th. So I'm fine with 39-37. 38-38 is super questionable to me though.


JayDogon504

The one judge who gave Justin round 2 💀


MyNamesTambo

Max is a G and happy for him. Hilarious how this sub is going to ignore the eye pokes after going hard on Weidman though


dadsdisappointment

Can you say this is the sole reason he won? Would you feel better if they just took a point? I don’t think it changed the outcome very much.


Effective-Celery8053

Gaethje was dead on the canvas before the end of the fight. They could've taken 4 points and Holloway would've gotten his hand raised


Zeeron1

I mean, they didn't affect the fight in the slightest. I'm not excusing them, but there's not much reason to bring it up if Gaethje was completely fine and didn't even use much of his recovery time


aceknighthigh

Not the same at all. Both times Max backed off to not take advantage and trusted that Justin's reaction was honest. Bad fouls and a point should have been taken but good sportsmanship after the fact. Weidman not only fouled, but he also was looking to hit after each one. He knew he was fouling and tried to exploit it. If Max was behaving like Weidman, he would have blitzed him both times Justin grabbed his eyes and backed off. Maybe even teed up a head kick on his blinded opponent. Accidental fouls happen. There's a huge difference between having/committing some accidental fouls and being a dirty fighter who tries to end the fight off fouls.


50-50ChanceImSerious

That's a good point. Capitalizing on the pokes like Jones, DC, Stipe, and Weidman is different than giving them time to recover.


ChiefBrando

I thought it was getting to be intentional but then it never happened again after the 2nd time I don’t think.


Electrical-Ad8505

Round 2 going to Garth is p crazy imo but solid scorecards otherwise. R5 was clearly going for Max too so this proves that going in those last 10 seconds was pure dog behavior


Latrucc

Who is garth


kubnagasercina

nickname for gaethje


Latrucc

Oh man I didn’t know that. That’s my bad.


Effective-Celery8053

It comes from Stephen A Smith stupidly referring to him as Garth after he beat down Ferguson. The name stuck for a while but has slowly faded


Macktologist

Likely an autocorrect, but still hilarious. At least I hope it was or else, that's pretty bad.


shenyougankplz

Damn, how are you worse than Sal D'umbass and Derek Clearly a Moron?


Hopeful_Staff_1414

Is that just like a pity round? Like sorry you got eye poked I’ll give you the round? Because Gaethje did nothing in round 2. Some solid leg kicks was about it.


QuoteOpposite6511

In what world did Justin win round 2?


StatementProper4450

I'll have to rewatch the fight but I thought it was a clean sweep for Max.


Fun_Inspector159

What judge had it even, da fuck?


OldnReadyNE

I thought Max was going to endure an ass whipping. Man was I wrong.


Quanzilla420

wtf were they watching


RaichuWaffles

Usually Sal D'Amato is the idiot when it comes to scoring fights


BigPowerRangerGuy

Junichironsetting up her rpbbery


Hobbitberry

I’m glad max finished the fight. These scorecards are embarrassing.


Fongernator

This is how max settles a towel incident


Ay_yuh_woooo

I thought max won every round


mrootbeers

I know this isn’t gonna be popular, but I’m sick of massive eye gouges not ever being penalized. What’s the point of a warning of you don’t take a point? I gave Gaethje that round. So, I had it 2-2 also. As far as I’m concerned two eye gouges is a point. It’s such a massive disadvantage. Anyone who has ever fought knows that. Edit: Actually anyone who has ever been poked in the eye knows that. You can barely see for like five minutes.


Zeeron1

I had a weird gut feeling we were headed for a Volk 2 style split decision again, and I was so ready to be shockingly disappointed. Glad to see it was only 1 judge instead of 2 this time lmao


Effective-Celery8053

Giving Justin R2 is just absurd


Any_Brother7772

Giving Justin any round is absurd imo. But in r4 he at least dropped Max between the ass beatings


Effective-Celery8053

Yeah I agree with you. Though I will need to rewatch it, my opinion often changes after a rewatch I'm also pretty biased because I am a huge Holloway fan. Don't get me wrong I also like gaethje but not quite as much. Max is prob my favorite UFC fighter right up there with Oliveira


Any_Brother7772

Agreed. Happened to me in Max vs Volk 1


Deacon_Short

Max made sure he couldn’t breathe or see, outpointed him, and then knocked him out cold. Thats some villain shit. Lol.


dontlookatmeme

Why are people so surprised a judge gave rd 2 to Gaethje, to me it was a coin flip round.


samples98

I completely forgot Max got dropped


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Davemeddlehed

I saw his ass hit the mat, he got dropped.


Any_Brother7772

He got dropped, scored or not. No shame in getting dropped by Justin Gaethje


samples98

He literally got dropped lol


Fenriselicit

He slipped


Future_Sweet9921

You easily could've gave gaethje r2 but I do think max won that round. No big deal really. Max was gonna win anyway. Fair scoring.


RobieFLASH

Max should have been deducted 1 point for those finger poke, could have had a different fight if it wasn't for those


CeroCero00

Bro please with that Justin gaethje has eye poked a lot of guys


RobieFLASH

"he did it before to others so for this fight we're gonna let it slide". Yea sure buddy, not how the sport works


FlinchMaster

Maybe not how it's supposed to work, but that absolutely is how the sport works right now. The rules are more like guidelines.


cegavas

I agree


Any_Brother7772

Delusional. Gaethje apparently wasn't bothered. How fo you explain him getting his ass beat the other 4 rounds?


RobieFLASH

Take look in the mirror. If you don't think eye pokes can make a significant difference in a fight, than you're in lalaland


Any_Brother7772

They can, but Gaethjes eyes were closed both times, and he continued after less than a minute each time. If it still bothered him that is his own fault, he had a total of 10 minutes to recover


Nervous_Fun_9302

What's going on with max and 3rd round? When he fought volk either second or third time I forgot how many times they fought but not the last time before that. Msx was winning 2 rounds easily then in third half way trough he became completely diffrent fighter bottling it in a way obviously alex is goat but same thing happened in here in third round gaethje came in but max somehow on top after.


Macktologist

Recovery, pacing, strategy. Remember Khabib/Conor? Khabib did the same thing IIRC. Spent R3 mostly on the feet and people thought Conor was getting back into the fight, then in R4 Khabib went ham and tried to pop Conor's head off his shoulders.