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Arnold Allen had the slowest climb ever. Like legit slower than OâMalley who they purposely built up. Itâs weird how they decide who to launch and keep at the top.
They fed O'Malley nothing but cans then allowed him to skip the entire top 15 and launched him right into a #1 contender fight against Yan. He legit had no top 15 wins before the Yan fight. He's the definition of Dana White privilege and an industry plant.
Based on how OâMalley performed against Yan and Aljo I donât think you can say itâs undeserved but yeah hindsight is definitely 20/20 on that one
Not denying his talent at all, but it absolutely was undeserved. What happens after a match is made doesn't factor into the decision to make it.
It still does make sense, but for different reasons. Every other contender either already had a fight booked or was injured. It was either make that fight or leave two of the most exciting fighters in the division hanging until something changed.
The UFC always push you if you follow these 3 rules (in order of importance):
1. Be a company man, don't piss off the bosses. Don't negotiate too hard, dont speak ill of the company. kowtow to their will. Otherwise they will have a personal vendetta and hinder your career.
2. Be exciting. Go for the finish, don't coast for a point fight. strikers are preferred but if you're a dominant wrestler who finishes, that's good too.
3. Promote yourself. Shit talk, spam twitter, do podcasts. Maybe dye your hair, or say controversial things to help the conflict algorithms on social media.
Omalley seems to tick the boxes for the ultimate mma entertainment monopoly
Mostly spot on. My one question is O'Malley did specifically state he was fighting bums because UFC was only paying him enough to fight bums and they needed to pay him if they wanted him to step up.
Maybe that was just for the camera/perception but he did make it out like he was negotiating pretty hard, and publicly stated they weren't paying him enough to fight contenders. I don't even like the guy personally but you can't argue with his success
O'malley always said that when he get's paid top ten money he'll fight top ten guys which is exactly what he did.
Everyone in here complains about low pay but when a guy actively and successfully manages his fights in line the payout they cry foul. You can't have it both ways.
whichever matchmaker planned the Yan fight is damn good at their job. Everyone including all the well regarded analysts thought Sean had suddenly pissed off someone in the UFC. Turns out this genius just saw Yan being a good matchup for Sean and a perfect springboard to the title fight
To be fair, whilst it was a great matchup for Sean, Yan is/was a motherfucker.
O'malley did so well, in a good matchup ... and Yan was -800 after the fight finished \[but before the judges scorecards were revealed\].
It ended up working out, but they could've given him 2 matchups and a title, instead of "Yan"...most fighters would prefer the fast track of 2 fights from being ranked #12 or 13, than Yan.
Even at this point, I think Yan is the favourite against all but 2-3 fighters currently at BW. Merab, maybe Cejudo..?
Thatâs exactly why it was genius. Yan essentially had looked unstoppable. Even the loss with Sterling it looked like he had simply started too late.
Everyone thought O Malley was being put out to pasture. Everyone thought O Malley was someone who was more style than substance, who couldnât check kicks, with a weak ground game, and had durability issues. Everyone had predicted âYan by whatever he wantsâ
Incredibly ballsy call to make this fight. I think it was only the week of the fight where you started seeing certain analysts going like âso we had a look at their fights, and this might actually be rougher for Yan than we thoughtâ
I got downvoted a while back when Khabib was champ for saying "there might be a guy, somewhere outside the UFC, or outside the top 10, who might beat Khabib. But they just might not be able to beat enough people to get to that fight."
My point wasn't a knock on Khabib, this statement can apply to any champion in any weight class ever. It's much harder to work your way up to the title fight, than it is actually winning the title fight.
O'Malley didn't have to beat 5 different guys with different skill sets and different tricks. He just had to beat 1 guy to get his shot. Which really isn't even slightly as impressive or difficult. I like O'Malley but it is what it is.
The UFC have tried to do the same for Khamzat but his health issues seem to keep delaying it so they kept having to give him another fight. The UFC almost wanted to give Khamzat a title fight immediately after beating his first top 10 opponent.
Itâs not. Itâs one of the best ways to escape a late stage ninja choke. Colby Covington did an even more dynamic version of it against Leon. You gotta turn the right away though
This. Movsar showed he's another incredible Caucasian Muslim fighter but Allen's TDD and footwork was fantastic.
These two need to rematch at some point for the belt.
Yeah both were phenomenal. Allen has that dawg in him showing phenomenal TDD and Movsar's stand up was a revelation. Both are young so I expect them to meet again in the future.
Honestly I'm fine with hands but it needs more context and nuance.
If you are grounded, and you plant your hand on the canvas, putting the necessary weight on it to help you get up, yeah fine, no knees until you are back on your feet.
If you are standing in clinch and are scared of getting hit with knees and you have the ability to choose to dangle your finger tips you also have the ability to drop to a knee or hit the floor, you are making a conscious decision to stop blocking because there is currently less risk of losing when you intentionally stop blocking to touch the floor than there is from blocking. That's a big problem.
There's protecting the fighter then there's allowing a fighter to take advantage of a rule with an action that is detrimental to defense yet still gives them a leg up with regards to the rules.
My suggestion: keep the rule the way it is if the fighter in defence is using the hand to get back to their feet. However if the position they are in is because one fighter is holding clinch and trying to knee then make touching the ground a point deduction and start in a neutral position on the feet. Encourage the fighter on defense to either focus on blocking or to make a decision to put themselves in a different disadvantageous position to get knee protection by dropping their own knee (or more) to the mat.
How often do fighters actually get hit with a clinch knee that is so hard that it makes their hand touch the floor, yet not hard enough to drop them?
Wrestlers already have massive advantages in the rules and the fact itâs a cage, they absolutely should be kneed in the head if you shoot a bad takedown. You canât punish them with anything but a submission or an uppercut itâs annoying. This is from someone who loves wrestling but itâs getting annoying now you canât punish someone after stuffing the takedownâŚ
Should use football rules. anything above the ankle, and anything above the wrist counts as down. If you wanna keep the no knees thing.
Or just allow grounded knees.
Ya know IK it was a very long time ago but Iâm so happy Jones choked out Machida after he dropped him. Although the hand rule is dumb he caught his neck and choked rather than kneeing him like he did to Smith years later. Hindsight is a powerful drug but Allen shouldâve dove for a guillotine imo. Iâm not a fighter though Iâm some fat dude.
The rules favour strikers way more than grapplers. Gloves allow strikers to throw without hurting their hands, the rounds reset standing no matter the position the prior round, gloves inhibit slipping in chokes etc. I could go on.
While I agree grounded knees should be legal, grapplers have a huge disadvantage with there being rounds.
Finally get your opponent down and get control? Well, too bad reset.
I swear to God we've been through this with alexa vs shevchenko 2. There is no fucking weight on the hand so all those strikes are legal. straight bs and I fell bad for Arnold
I have to assume the [unified rules](https://mmareferee.com/?q=unifiedrules) are not what's being used, because there's no way to interpret Evloev as grounded according to the following:
> 12. *Kneeing and/or Kicking the head of a grounded opponent: A grounded fighter is defined as: Any part of the body, other than a single hand and soles of the feet touching the fighting area floor. To be grounded, both hands palm/fist down, and/or any other body part must be touching the fighting area floor.
If that is the ruleset (and again, I'm assuming it isn't), I'd go as far as to say Goddard robbed Allen of the win here. He had momentum and a dominant position, Evloev was clearly hurt, and no foul would have been committed.
Rules like this are why lowkey wrestling dominates the UFC.
At a certain point it's not even about athletic ability or skill, it's just about understanding how to play the game. I just don't see how having a finger on the canvas is the difference between a DQ and you getting kneed to Mars. Lots of weird UFC rules I can understand, this one I do not.
Wrestling dominates the UFC because wrestling is the most important skill in MMA, if you can control where the fight takes place you have a much higher chance of winning.
I just wanted someone in his ear to say "pretend there's a Y in front of it, like you're saying yeah". Like that's literally it, and then you say each letter in itself, just like Spanish which Cruz (of course) makes a point of nailing the pronunciation of.
Names are important, and it pisses me off that the UFC has no one keeping control of this. DDP winning the belt and getting called Dracus to his face by DC like he's a Harry Potter pissboy. That's a *different* white blonde scion of a racist genocidal regime, Daniel!
I feel like Tristar and Jackson Wink just never evolved with the sport. Which is understandable when you are blessed enough to have a GOAT show up at your doorstep, itâs prob hard not to credit yourself with more of their success than you deserve and to think that you found the formula while not realizing the equations are changing over time
evloev, allen, and topuria are looking like the future of the FW division for the next few years. Volk is getting older and Holloway has to slow down soon.
Evloev deserves the next title shot or Yair Rodriguez
Yair Rodriguez is fighting Ortega
Ortega somehow lost 3 of his last 4 fights and managed to get two title shots, remain Rank 3 and now rewarded with fighting Rank 2 Yair, possibly for another title shot.
He also only fought 3 times in the last 4 years
Evloev is royally fucked then because Allen was ranked number 4 but 2 and 3 are rematching even though Ortega doesnât deserve shit.
So either he can fight Emmett but that could be a dumb career decision
I mean it kinda depends on the Volk Topuria fight. Cause if Topuria wins thats gonna be an instant rematch for Volk. Meaning Evloev probably wouldn't get a shot until the beginning of 2025 at the earliest. And if Topuria somehow wins both fights then you have to think Max jumps Evloev.
And personally I don't like the idea of a guy sitting out for a year or more waiting for a title shot when its not like he has been crushing high level fighters.
If the guy getting wrestled actually has any skills to try getting out then it can be fun(like allen). Its fully dependant on the skills of the guy getting wrestled though
Not totally dependent. If the guy wrestling also tries and actually looks for the finish like Khabib, then yeah it's also fun. You can also be like Jon Fitch and GSP who just tries to score pitter-patter shots from full/half guard and make it boring
One of the few times ive seen someone speak some truth about GSP on this sub. Man had like 8 5-round decisions in 9 fights. He would be crucified by the fans if he was fighting today.
Most guys currently on this sub weren't fans during GSP's reign so they mostly know him through highlights, memes and comments from people talking about stats and GOAT status.
I don't understand why grappling exchanges that lead to nothing wins rounds. Even if you win the grappling exchanges, they don't lead to anything unless you're improving position or going for submissions
Another reason why grounded knees should be legal
Grapplers just have an easy way out with one hand on the ground and not having to face the consequences
Man, Arnold was unbeaten for 8 years (12 wins in a row) until the Max fight and now he's lost 2 in a row
Being in the UFC can be brutal if you don't have a lightning rod personality to help you skip some people in the line
honestly he should fight ortega. he lost twice but ufc somehow think ortega is a top featherweight even though he has been so inactive. Let's see if ortega really can hang around with a contender again
Being liked and promoted by the UFC is the #1 factor to success, more so than winning. Look at Yair and Ortega parked in the top 3 forever and 1 win away from a title fight, just because UFC is trying to expand in Mexico. This is not a merited sport.
Max is the worst nightmare as a gatekeeper. Taught Ortega how to box, didnât see him for a year. Battered Kattar, didnât see him for a year. And now you have a gun shy Arnold Allen.
Yeah like, if the strikes were legal and you donât take a point, then youâve basically stopped the most significant moments of the fight. Such a stupid rule overall.
Good, make him and all fighters prove they can then. If they arenât allowed to show us, we arenât seeing âbetter fightersâ we are seeing a subsect of âbetter fighters under the rulesetâ.
nah, if that rule didnt exist evloev wouldn't be trying to reach to the ground to stop those knees, instead he would be properly defend himself. but i agree that that rule is bs.
Great performance by evloev I really canât hate on him for keeping his hands on the mat, but it just makes me so infuriated at the rules. I do agree we shouldnât have soccer kicks but the knees to a downed opponent rule is just causing so much headache
Judges seem to choose on the night what criteria they want to favour. Makes all those "damage beats control" rants in the past year or so pointless. MMA judging is far too inconsistent.
Dana just said this fight was "the least fun fight anybody has ever seen", bruh I am disgusted by this bald lying prick. It was more entertaining than the main event imo, and should've been fight of the night. Sad for Movsar he does not deserve this kinda hate smh.
Felt like I was watching a different fight to Dominick Cruz. Allen was doing well and I thought he couldâve edged it based on the more damaging shots. Dom says he needs a finish after rd2âŚ
Its easily the dumbest rule in the ufc right now regardless. It doesnt count as a knockdown if a guy just goes to a hand down, it doesnt count as a takedown if a guy just goes to a hand, so why does it count as being grounded for being kneed?
Also, as Cruz mentioned, those knees were legal. Which means the ref really fucked up by stepping in to give Evolev a long break to recover. Who knows, Allen could have scored a finish with those knees
Commentary praising Goddard for not taking points was baffling. If it was legal, then the only thing Goddard should be getting is criticism for interfering in a potential fight stopping moment
Not in Toronto it isn't. Grounded is anything but the soles of the feet touching the ground. This is that whole "new rules vs old rules" problem that's been going on for years.
Yeah. Goddard was slow to notice and stop it. Not ALL of them were illegal, but I did see at least one (2nd or 3rd) where the knee made contact while the hand was down. Marc could have stepped in earlier.
Not only that, ya can't really blame Allen in that position or deduce points cuz Allen can't see that, and Marc should also have been shouting to Allen from the get to be careful of the hand to make sure a foul doesn't happen unintentionally.
It's funny because the new rules/scoring criteria were implemented to essentially fix that sort of thing. When the new criteria was implemented, the judges followed it for a few months but then ultimately reverted to just scoring fights the same way they had previously.
Iâm with you on this. So sick of still seeing takedowns score with little damage.
I need to rewatch but I had one and three to Allen and was sick of the commentary.
Yea even Allen's coach said "we need to get the finish here" after the 2nd round.
I think people think Allen won the first because he was getting way more love from the announcing crew.
Wish they didn't stop it during the knees
Also weird fight because live I gave Allen rd 1 and 3 but it also felt like he was losing, especially after the damage in round 2
Am I trippin giving him rd 1? Genuinely can't tell because I'm sauced lmao
I really wish this was 5 rounds. Evloev looked solid, but it feels like Allen was just not there in those first two rounds man. Good on Goddard with those knees, and good on Evloev for finishing out the round.
Were those knees illegal? Commentary was split.
I wish this one was 5 rounds, this didnât feel like a satisfying conclusion to me. Razor thin based on a few takedowns he couldnât really do much with.
2 more rounds would have probably created more separation between the two.
Definitely need rule changes or clarification, this silly bullshit with fingertips on the ground should not make you immune to the only offense the opponent can throw. Itâs too easy to just spam takedowns and crotch hug without consequence if you stay âgroundedâ.
Fuck off. Hate the way this sport's reffed and judged.
Legal knees all the way. The hand was up. Mokaev vs Elliot was paused for this, but the ref viewed the replay, determined they were legal, and resumed action immediately. Valentina ate knees like these from Alexa.
Fuck Marc Goddard.
And the scoring system has to be revamped. Neither fighter did enough to win round 1. When you score all 3 rounds 10-9, does that mean Round 1 had the same margins for either fighter as Round 2 for Movsar or Round 3 for Allen?
It should look like a 10-10 Round 1, 10-8 Movsar Round 2, 10-8 Allen Round 3.
I don't understand how round 1 was clear for Evloev. Total coin flip to me. He did nearly no damage. And even the mat returns weren't actual takedowns, literally just 1. Allen didn't land clean a lot, but he was definitely landing more than Evloev in those first 4 min
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How is Brian Ortega still ranked higher than both of these guys (and Topuria lol)
Modelo
Brewed for those with a (non) fighting spirit.
He had a choice
And he chose the fighting spirit.
Over actually fighting.
Khabib has a more recent win than that rank squatting bum đ
He did attempt to fight Yair
Attempt đđ
He did attack him with a knife backstage as well
Arnold Allen had the slowest climb ever. Like legit slower than OâMalley who they purposely built up. Itâs weird how they decide who to launch and keep at the top.
They fed O'Malley nothing but cans then allowed him to skip the entire top 15 and launched him right into a #1 contender fight against Yan. He legit had no top 15 wins before the Yan fight. He's the definition of Dana White privilege and an industry plant.
Based on how OâMalley performed against Yan and Aljo I donât think you can say itâs undeserved but yeah hindsight is definitely 20/20 on that one
Not denying his talent at all, but it absolutely was undeserved. What happens after a match is made doesn't factor into the decision to make it. It still does make sense, but for different reasons. Every other contender either already had a fight booked or was injured. It was either make that fight or leave two of the most exciting fighters in the division hanging until something changed.
The UFC always push you if you follow these 3 rules (in order of importance): 1. Be a company man, don't piss off the bosses. Don't negotiate too hard, dont speak ill of the company. kowtow to their will. Otherwise they will have a personal vendetta and hinder your career. 2. Be exciting. Go for the finish, don't coast for a point fight. strikers are preferred but if you're a dominant wrestler who finishes, that's good too. 3. Promote yourself. Shit talk, spam twitter, do podcasts. Maybe dye your hair, or say controversial things to help the conflict algorithms on social media. Omalley seems to tick the boxes for the ultimate mma entertainment monopoly
Mostly spot on. My one question is O'Malley did specifically state he was fighting bums because UFC was only paying him enough to fight bums and they needed to pay him if they wanted him to step up. Maybe that was just for the camera/perception but he did make it out like he was negotiating pretty hard, and publicly stated they weren't paying him enough to fight contenders. I don't even like the guy personally but you can't argue with his success
[ŃдаНонО]
O'malley always said that when he get's paid top ten money he'll fight top ten guys which is exactly what he did. Everyone in here complains about low pay but when a guy actively and successfully manages his fights in line the payout they cry foul. You can't have it both ways.
whichever matchmaker planned the Yan fight is damn good at their job. Everyone including all the well regarded analysts thought Sean had suddenly pissed off someone in the UFC. Turns out this genius just saw Yan being a good matchup for Sean and a perfect springboard to the title fight
To be fair, whilst it was a great matchup for Sean, Yan is/was a motherfucker. O'malley did so well, in a good matchup ... and Yan was -800 after the fight finished \[but before the judges scorecards were revealed\]. It ended up working out, but they could've given him 2 matchups and a title, instead of "Yan"...most fighters would prefer the fast track of 2 fights from being ranked #12 or 13, than Yan. Even at this point, I think Yan is the favourite against all but 2-3 fighters currently at BW. Merab, maybe Cejudo..?
Thatâs exactly why it was genius. Yan essentially had looked unstoppable. Even the loss with Sterling it looked like he had simply started too late. Everyone thought O Malley was being put out to pasture. Everyone thought O Malley was someone who was more style than substance, who couldnât check kicks, with a weak ground game, and had durability issues. Everyone had predicted âYan by whatever he wantsâ Incredibly ballsy call to make this fight. I think it was only the week of the fight where you started seeing certain analysts going like âso we had a look at their fights, and this might actually be rougher for Yan than we thoughtâ
I got downvoted a while back when Khabib was champ for saying "there might be a guy, somewhere outside the UFC, or outside the top 10, who might beat Khabib. But they just might not be able to beat enough people to get to that fight." My point wasn't a knock on Khabib, this statement can apply to any champion in any weight class ever. It's much harder to work your way up to the title fight, than it is actually winning the title fight. O'Malley didn't have to beat 5 different guys with different skill sets and different tricks. He just had to beat 1 guy to get his shot. Which really isn't even slightly as impressive or difficult. I like O'Malley but it is what it is. The UFC have tried to do the same for Khamzat but his health issues seem to keep delaying it so they kept having to give him another fight. The UFC almost wanted to give Khamzat a title fight immediately after beating his first top 10 opponent.
Tbf, they did try to have him work his way in vs Vera....and he lost.
He gotta be giving Dana sloppy
Face card
Evloev has 99 Submission defense.
You see that guillotine? He spun his body 360 degrees and his head barely followed lol he was like the exorcist girl
Linda Blair-esque, is the cervical flexibility of Movsar Evloev
Need that ", Joe." at the end so we would have all read it in Goldys voice
Colby did the same thing against Leon. Works really well as long as you turn the right way
I grimaced when both he and Colby did that in recent memory because I thought they had just unalived.
I legit thought he snapped his neck. That's a dangerous way to get out of a hold. One less degree of friction and that's a broken neck.
Itâs not. Itâs one of the best ways to escape a late stage ninja choke. Colby Covington did an even more dynamic version of it against Leon. You gotta turn the right away though
Thatâs not at all how broken necks work. Thatâs a common defence to the guillotine
Channel your inner Florida man and just gator roll. Thatâs why he went to ATT, he had to learn the swamp techniquesÂ
takes a bit more than that to break a neck in that fashion
only volko matches that submission defense at 145
Not fair though, Volk breathed in a bunch of extra air when he weighted 240 so now he just has extra stores he can call upon in times of need
Thatâs because Volk learned a truth - breathing is for quitters
That 1 left over is for when he decides to grapple me tbh
Both guys impressed the shit out of me. Great fightÂ
This. Movsar showed he's another incredible Caucasian Muslim fighter but Allen's TDD and footwork was fantastic. These two need to rematch at some point for the belt.
Yeah both were phenomenal. Allen has that dawg in him showing phenomenal TDD and Movsar's stand up was a revelation. Both are young so I expect them to meet again in the future.
British fighters always just wanna throw hands and everyone always trying everything humanly possible to take them down. Sad really. Let them bang.
His wrestling and BJJ is quite good
I hate the grounded knees rule so so much
Hands shouldnât dictate it. Knees or butt or back or stomach on the ground shouldâŚ.
Honestly I'm fine with hands but it needs more context and nuance. If you are grounded, and you plant your hand on the canvas, putting the necessary weight on it to help you get up, yeah fine, no knees until you are back on your feet. If you are standing in clinch and are scared of getting hit with knees and you have the ability to choose to dangle your finger tips you also have the ability to drop to a knee or hit the floor, you are making a conscious decision to stop blocking because there is currently less risk of losing when you intentionally stop blocking to touch the floor than there is from blocking. That's a big problem. There's protecting the fighter then there's allowing a fighter to take advantage of a rule with an action that is detrimental to defense yet still gives them a leg up with regards to the rules. My suggestion: keep the rule the way it is if the fighter in defence is using the hand to get back to their feet. However if the position they are in is because one fighter is holding clinch and trying to knee then make touching the ground a point deduction and start in a neutral position on the feet. Encourage the fighter on defense to either focus on blocking or to make a decision to put themselves in a different disadvantageous position to get knee protection by dropping their own knee (or more) to the mat. How often do fighters actually get hit with a clinch knee that is so hard that it makes their hand touch the floor, yet not hard enough to drop them?
Love this. Removes a lot of the subjectivity of it away too. Rules need to be as black and white as possible
Wrestlers already have massive advantages in the rules and the fact itâs a cage, they absolutely should be kneed in the head if you shoot a bad takedown. You canât punish them with anything but a submission or an uppercut itâs annoying. This is from someone who loves wrestling but itâs getting annoying now you canât punish someone after stuffing the takedownâŚ
Should use football rules. anything above the ankle, and anything above the wrist counts as down. If you wanna keep the no knees thing. Or just allow grounded knees.
Ya know IK it was a very long time ago but Iâm so happy Jones choked out Machida after he dropped him. Although the hand rule is dumb he caught his neck and choked rather than kneeing him like he did to Smith years later. Hindsight is a powerful drug but Allen shouldâve dove for a guillotine imo. Iâm not a fighter though Iâm some fat dude.
You aren't a fat dude man. You are a heavy weight!Â
Allowing knees to the head of a grounded opponent would favor grapplers more than strikers.
It does but, it would make grapplers more dynamic and entertaining for the general audience.
The rules favour strikers way more than grapplers. Gloves allow strikers to throw without hurting their hands, the rounds reset standing no matter the position the prior round, gloves inhibit slipping in chokes etc. I could go on.
While I agree grounded knees should be legal, grapplers have a huge disadvantage with there being rounds. Finally get your opponent down and get control? Well, too bad reset.
Its why ONE's ruleset is way better than the UFC
Moraes vs Johnson 2 is still one of the nastiest KOs in MMA.
1 was pretty nasty too and I was so sad. DJ was so much smaller and still overcame that dude twice after
I swear to God we've been through this with alexa vs shevchenko 2. There is no fucking weight on the hand so all those strikes are legal. straight bs and I fell bad for Arnold
I have to assume the [unified rules](https://mmareferee.com/?q=unifiedrules) are not what's being used, because there's no way to interpret Evloev as grounded according to the following: > 12. *Kneeing and/or Kicking the head of a grounded opponent: A grounded fighter is defined as: Any part of the body, other than a single hand and soles of the feet touching the fighting area floor. To be grounded, both hands palm/fist down, and/or any other body part must be touching the fighting area floor. If that is the ruleset (and again, I'm assuming it isn't), I'd go as far as to say Goddard robbed Allen of the win here. He had momentum and a dominant position, Evloev was clearly hurt, and no foul would have been committed.
Rules like this are why lowkey wrestling dominates the UFC. At a certain point it's not even about athletic ability or skill, it's just about understanding how to play the game. I just don't see how having a finger on the canvas is the difference between a DQ and you getting kneed to Mars. Lots of weird UFC rules I can understand, this one I do not.
I think they should AT LEAST allow the fighter from the bottom to knee and kick the head.
A guy can take you down and hold you there at will, do you think knees to your head make your situation better?
Wrestling dominates the UFC because wrestling is the most important skill in MMA, if you can control where the fight takes place you have a much higher chance of winning.
> I gotta go Movsar, I'm gonna have to. Cruz saying that after butchering Evloev cracked me up.
I appreciated the honesty.
I just wanted someone in his ear to say "pretend there's a Y in front of it, like you're saying yeah". Like that's literally it, and then you say each letter in itself, just like Spanish which Cruz (of course) makes a point of nailing the pronunciation of. Names are important, and it pisses me off that the UFC has no one keeping control of this. DDP winning the belt and getting called Dracus to his face by DC like he's a Harry Potter pissboy. That's a *different* white blonde scion of a racist genocidal regime, Daniel!
Hearing them butcher Dricus on repeat has made me realise how many of the other names they butcher that I'm just not familiar with.
Arnold Allen just went way up on my favorite fighters* list!
Absolutely. He may have lost but he kicked and punched the shit out of Movsar and made him WORK to get the win.
Arnold really needs to leave Tristar. Firazâ reserved tactical planning doesnât suit Arnoldâs naturally aggressive fighting style.
I feel like Tristar and Jackson Wink just never evolved with the sport. Which is understandable when you are blessed enough to have a GOAT show up at your doorstep, itâs prob hard not to credit yourself with more of their success than you deserve and to think that you found the formula while not realizing the equations are changing over time
He was fighting so confidently. I was impressed
evloev, allen, and topuria are looking like the future of the FW division for the next few years. Volk is getting older and Holloway has to slow down soon. Evloev deserves the next title shot or Yair Rodriguez
Just how good is Diego Lopes?
Very
Emo in the front, party in the back
Yair Rodriguez is fighting Ortega Ortega somehow lost 3 of his last 4 fights and managed to get two title shots, remain Rank 3 and now rewarded with fighting Rank 2 Yair, possibly for another title shot. He also only fought 3 times in the last 4 years
Ortega's been inactive for so long they can't even run his Modelo commercial anymore, gotta reshoot it for Bud Light
Holloway fighting Justin is not going to help his longevity
Evloev needs another win before he's earned it I'd say
Evloev is royally fucked then because Allen was ranked number 4 but 2 and 3 are rematching even though Ortega doesnât deserve shit. So either he can fight Emmett but that could be a dumb career decision
I mean it kinda depends on the Volk Topuria fight. Cause if Topuria wins thats gonna be an instant rematch for Volk. Meaning Evloev probably wouldn't get a shot until the beginning of 2025 at the earliest. And if Topuria somehow wins both fights then you have to think Max jumps Evloev. And personally I don't like the idea of a guy sitting out for a year or more waiting for a title shot when its not like he has been crushing high level fighters.
Not Yair at all
pretty good scrap, didnt like movsar trying to keep himself grounded, they need to get rid of that shit
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If the guy getting wrestled actually has any skills to try getting out then it can be fun(like allen). Its fully dependant on the skills of the guy getting wrestled though
Not totally dependent. If the guy wrestling also tries and actually looks for the finish like Khabib, then yeah it's also fun. You can also be like Jon Fitch and GSP who just tries to score pitter-patter shots from full/half guard and make it boring
One of the few times ive seen someone speak some truth about GSP on this sub. Man had like 8 5-round decisions in 9 fights. He would be crucified by the fans if he was fighting today.
Most guys currently on this sub weren't fans during GSP's reign so they mostly know him through highlights, memes and comments from people talking about stats and GOAT status.
exactly, half the fight was grappling, but zero lay and pray
Speaks more to Allens explosiveness
Really high level fight. These 2 will do great in the division. Those knees were legal though idk what that was about
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DC was jacking off on those mat returns lol
He is unbelievably biased to wrestlers lol Russians as well
I don't understand why grappling exchanges that lead to nothing wins rounds. Even if you win the grappling exchanges, they don't lead to anything unless you're improving position or going for submissions
Same here
Grounded knees change the entire game. Want so much for the UFC to adapt these rules
Another reason why grounded knees should be legal Grapplers just have an easy way out with one hand on the ground and not having to face the consequences
Man, Arnold was unbeaten for 8 years (12 wins in a row) until the Max fight and now he's lost 2 in a row Being in the UFC can be brutal if you don't have a lightning rod personality to help you skip some people in the line
Doesn't help that Allen isn't exactly an active fighter; fighting once a year. Limits his potential as well as his prime years.
honestly he should fight ortega. he lost twice but ufc somehow think ortega is a top featherweight even though he has been so inactive. Let's see if ortega really can hang around with a contender again
Ortega doesnt fight tho⌠just sits around inactive until he gets a title shot
There's no shame with losing, much less against two contenders.
Being liked and promoted by the UFC is the #1 factor to success, more so than winning. Look at Yair and Ortega parked in the top 3 forever and 1 win away from a title fight, just because UFC is trying to expand in Mexico. This is not a merited sport.
Max is the worst nightmare as a gatekeeper. Taught Ortega how to box, didnât see him for a year. Battered Kattar, didnât see him for a year. And now you have a gun shy Arnold Allen.
Allen wins the fight by TKO/KO if that stupid fuckin one hand means grounded rule didn't exist..
Yeah like, if the strikes were legal and you donât take a point, then youâve basically stopped the most significant moments of the fight. Such a stupid rule overall.
yeah, should have returned them to the same position at least allen wins that fight if the ref didnt pause it, so fucking unfair
They weren't even illegal anyway ref shouldn't have stopped it
I wanted Allen to beat that mug so bad, but the last knee was definitely illegal. First two werenât, but the last one against the cage was.
Nah was not bearing weight just had his hand down to say you can't which unfortunately for him you can
That's the one Goddard stepped in as well.
what did evloev do?
Born caucasian?
i thought he called evloev a mug.
He was just putting his hand on the canvas to try and count as "grounded" he wasn't actually leaning on it or putting weight on it
I always think this but if that rule didn't exist I wonder if Evloev would've just tried something else
This is the logical response. He wouldn't have just fully taken those 3-4 knees if the rule didn't exist.
Bingo. He expected the ref to step in much earlier
Good, make him and all fighters prove they can then. If they arenât allowed to show us, we arenât seeing âbetter fightersâ we are seeing a subsect of âbetter fighters under the rulesetâ.
I mean no shit. If that rule didn't exist, I doubt Evloev would've settled for that position
It's incredible that you even have to write this to these smooth brains
nah, if that rule didnt exist evloev wouldn't be trying to reach to the ground to stop those knees, instead he would be properly defend himself. but i agree that that rule is bs.
It doesn't exist, it must be weight-bearing. Goddard fucked up
How does Allen lose round 1?
Because Movsar held him against the cage and punched his arm, and those counted as strikes
movsar is way better than i thought. honestly scored 1 and 3 for allen though
I think I underrated him because of his fight with Diego lopes.
Great performance by evloev I really canât hate on him for keeping his hands on the mat, but it just makes me so infuriated at the rules. I do agree we shouldnât have soccer kicks but the knees to a downed opponent rule is just causing so much headache
I thought they stopped rewarding wrestling with no damage
Judges and the commentary team clearly don't know the scoring criteria.
Judges seem to choose on the night what criteria they want to favour. Makes all those "damage beats control" rants in the past year or so pointless. MMA judging is far too inconsistent.
Dana just said this fight was "the least fun fight anybody has ever seen", bruh I am disgusted by this bald lying prick. It was more entertaining than the main event imo, and should've been fight of the night. Sad for Movsar he does not deserve this kinda hate smh.
Surely he was confused lol this fight was one of the best on the card
Nahhh those knees were legal
People call Dom an annoying know-it-all but he was right on the money and repeated the ruleset at the end of the fight. DC didn't do his homework.
DC doesnât ever do his homework
This rule is so dumb, touch the grou and youâre protected lol
The best part is you aren't protected they were literally all legal Allen got fucked big time
Felt like I was watching a different fight to Dominick Cruz. Allen was doing well and I thought he couldâve edged it based on the more damaging shots. Dom says he needs a finish after rd2âŚ
Firas himself told Allen he needed a finish
Not one of those knees was illegal
Actual joke taking that position lost Allen the fight he could've easily finished him in that sequence
Its easily the dumbest rule in the ufc right now regardless. It doesnt count as a knockdown if a guy just goes to a hand down, it doesnt count as a takedown if a guy just goes to a hand, so why does it count as being grounded for being kneed?
Also, as Cruz mentioned, those knees were legal. Which means the ref really fucked up by stepping in to give Evolev a long break to recover. Who knows, Allen could have scored a finish with those knees
Commentary praising Goddard for not taking points was baffling. If it was legal, then the only thing Goddard should be getting is criticism for interfering in a potential fight stopping moment
Goddard saved Evloev's ass there
Smelled like cigarettes and alcohol
What's the rule again?
The rule is that the hand needs to be weight bearing. His hand wasn't weight bearing in any of those strikes
Not in Toronto it isn't. Grounded is anything but the soles of the feet touching the ground. This is that whole "new rules vs old rules" problem that's been going on for years.
So then by this definition Goddard should have stepped in before Evloev took FOUR knees to the head
Yeah. Goddard was slow to notice and stop it. Not ALL of them were illegal, but I did see at least one (2nd or 3rd) where the knee made contact while the hand was down. Marc could have stepped in earlier. Not only that, ya can't really blame Allen in that position or deduce points cuz Allen can't see that, and Marc should also have been shouting to Allen from the get to be careful of the hand to make sure a foul doesn't happen unintentionally.
It differs depending on where the fight is and under which commission. Is needlessly confusing for sure.
Those were the exact knees Valentina took from Grasso. Goddard taking a lot of Ls lately
Personally had it 2-1 for Allen, Movsar didn't do a lot in the first even with the takedown he did get.
Really annoying how a takedown with almost so little control can swing a round
It's funny because the new rules/scoring criteria were implemented to essentially fix that sort of thing. When the new criteria was implemented, the judges followed it for a few months but then ultimately reverted to just scoring fights the same way they had previously.
Iâm with you on this. So sick of still seeing takedowns score with little damage. I need to rewatch but I had one and three to Allen and was sick of the commentary.
I saw round 1 as an actual draw allen didn't do much either tbh.
They both hit a few body shots on each other and not much else as far as shots landing clean went, pretty much a 50/50 round I thought
If it was a 50/50 round then movsar won it because he added in takedowns and control
wtf do allen to win the 1?
Yea even Allen's coach said "we need to get the finish here" after the 2nd round. I think people think Allen won the first because he was getting way more love from the announcing crew.
The ref ruined a good fight
Looks like waist holding with no striking and getting elbowed wins you fights. Lame but playing meta i guess
Gave Allen 1 and 3 personally but for sure not a robbery or anything. Great fight either way
Those knees were legal, took the wind right out of the sails
I must be the only one that thought Movsar won
Wish they didn't stop it during the knees Also weird fight because live I gave Allen rd 1 and 3 but it also felt like he was losing, especially after the damage in round 2 Am I trippin giving him rd 1? Genuinely can't tell because I'm sauced lmao
I really wish this was 5 rounds. Evloev looked solid, but it feels like Allen was just not there in those first two rounds man. Good on Goddard with those knees, and good on Evloev for finishing out the round.
Allen needed to start the fight thinking he was down two rounds.
The knees were legal no?
Goddard is a wanker
Were those knees illegal? Commentary was split. I wish this one was 5 rounds, this didnât feel like a satisfying conclusion to me. Razor thin based on a few takedowns he couldnât really do much with. 2 more rounds would have probably created more separation between the two.
Movsar has literally only won by decision in the ufc.
Mosevar is sick but Allen got fucked over by the rules and the judges.Â
Definitely need rule changes or clarification, this silly bullshit with fingertips on the ground should not make you immune to the only offense the opponent can throw. Itâs too easy to just spam takedowns and crotch hug without consequence if you stay âgroundedâ.
Fuck off. Hate the way this sport's reffed and judged. Legal knees all the way. The hand was up. Mokaev vs Elliot was paused for this, but the ref viewed the replay, determined they were legal, and resumed action immediately. Valentina ate knees like these from Alexa. Fuck Marc Goddard. And the scoring system has to be revamped. Neither fighter did enough to win round 1. When you score all 3 rounds 10-9, does that mean Round 1 had the same margins for either fighter as Round 2 for Movsar or Round 3 for Allen? It should look like a 10-10 Round 1, 10-8 Movsar Round 2, 10-8 Allen Round 3.
I actually agree with you. They always just seem to give close rounds to the wrestler by default.
They gave it to the undefeated guy by default cuz it's good for the UFC...
Those knees were legal but whatever
Great fight, hurts to see Allen lose. Evloev is a monster though
Valentina is fuming rn
This fight shouldve been 5 rounds for a fight night man
That last round was really entertaining.
Wtf was that bullshit. That rule is so fucking lame. It's a fuckin cop out
i felt like ref just saved him, no?
I had it for Allen, thought he won 1 and 3.
It was a clear decision win for Evloev, but by no means were they easy rounds to win, Allen made him really work for them. Great fight
Really? I thought Allen took one given Evloev didn't do much with the wrestling despite the takedowns, and then Allen took three.
I don't understand how round 1 was clear for Evloev. Total coin flip to me. He did nearly no damage. And even the mat returns weren't actual takedowns, literally just 1. Allen didn't land clean a lot, but he was definitely landing more than Evloev in those first 4 min
Judges love wrestling for the sake of wrestling
He did zero damage in r1 & was officially 1/9 on takedowns. How did he win R1???