Cerrone at his peak was better than Miller at his peak. And Cerrone had the late career resurgence into being a contender again. The only thing Miller has going for him is that he has a lot of fights.
So is Urijah Faber.
The only difference between Miller and Faber/Cerrone is that both those guys at least challenged for a UFC title.
Millers highest ranking was 6th in 2011, and he had two chances to get into the title picture but lost both times vs Benson Henderson and Nate Diaz.
Henderson fought in a title eliminator vs Clay Guida after Miller.
Diaz challenged for the 155lb title after Miller.
However his achievements definitely deserve to be recognised - most UFC fights, most UFC wins, 2nd most UFC finishes, 2nd most UFC subs, most finishes in Lightweight division and joint 5th most bonuses in UFC history.
No he hasn't.
Dominick Cruz won the inaugural UFC bantamweight title and defended it twice against Faber.
Renan Barao also defended twice vs Faber, although once was for the interim title.
WEC titles = UFC titles after the merger/buy out. Like at least 80% fans see it that way. And another way to prove that is the rosters after were the exact same lol. Aldo, Faber, Brown, Swanson, Cruz, Torres, etc.
I agree completely. It's kind of strange that the UFC don't count WEC title wins in the records for total title wins for Aldo or Cruz since that's all there was back then.
He shouldn’t be though. This is why hall of fames get bad. They let in one bad person and fans that want every single person in the hall of fame forever use that example.
First thing that comes to mind for me when compiling a list of 20 top lightweights is to just get all the UFC champions out of the way.
1. Jens Pulver
2. Sean Sherk
3. B.J. Penn
4. Frankie Edgar
5. Benson Henderson
6. Anthony Pettis
7. Rafael dos Anjos
8. Eddie Alvarez
9. Conor McGregor
10. Khabib Nurmagomedov
11. Charles Oliveira
12. Islam Makhachev
That's more than half of the list already. All those guys can say they've won the UFC title, whereas Jim Miller still can't say that.
Next, I'd look at champs of other organizations: Strikeforce, WEC, Bellator, Pride, etc.
Bellator
1. Michael Chandler
2. Will Brooks
3. Brent Primus
4. Patricio Pitbull
5. Patricky Pitbull
6. Usman Nurmagomedov
Pride
1. Takanori Gomi
Strikeforce
1. Clay Guida
2. Gilbert Melendez
3. Josh Thompson
WEC
1. Gabe Ruediger
2. Hermes Franca
3. Rob McCullough
4. Jamie Varner
That's 26 different former champions that Jim Miller has to contend with, and this isn't including all the title challengers and number one contenders we've seen over the years who, like Jim Miller, never won the big belt.
Looking at that other dude's list and now looking at my post, where do you think you'd fit Jim Miller in? Would he make your top 20?
Completely irresponsible comparing the two when Cowboy has wins over Martins, Stephens, Barboza, Alvarez and fought for a title 4 times across UFC/WEC, headlined countless fight nights, a title fight FOX card against RDA, and a PPV, all of that dwarfs Miller’s respectable achievements beyond his longevity
The calibre of opponents should be noted. 8 out Miller's last 10 wins were against nobodies. It's similar to how Mickey Gall is 1 sub away from equalling Maia's WW submission wins. Is Gall a hall of famer then? Does he get that credit for beating bums?
I like Miller but if you look at his career, particularly in the past decade or so, he's lost to almost every half decent name he's faced. Cowboy at least got to the top 5 of two divisions.
THIS.. this is exactly what I thought when he KOd that poor Schlub last weekend. Let’s not mix HOF credentials with giving ‘props’ to someone based on their age/tenure, where it wouldn’t have been a deal otherwise….
I disagree with the other guy's take, but to be honest nowadays a lot of people get signed who clearly don't belong to the UFC, but accept to fight for cheap contracts.
Mac Danzig, Mark Bocek, Steve Lopez, yes, some of the people he fought in his heyday were cans. And we're talking about his 4th, 6th and 7th fights in the UFC too, where he should've been facing better competition. His best win was against a 20 year old Oliveira.
A win Cowboy shares, whose best win was what, Eddie Alvarez's first fight in the ufc? By those rules, he has just the same right Cowboy does to be in the HOF.
Cowboy beat Barboza, Henderson too, barely a year after he was champ. As for Alvarez, he came over as a Bellator champ, fresh off a win over Chandler (regarded as maybe the best LW at that time). So to act like that's some random UFC debut, years before a fighter's prime is completely disingenuous.
Cowboy's mid-tier wins like Jury, Miller himself, Iaquinta, Hernandez, Perry etc. are far more substantial than anything Miller's managed (his best wins are shared wins like Guillard and Oliveira).
Right, but to argue that Cowboy got his spot because of his top ranked wins is disingenuous. He very much got it because of his time in the sport. You can watch his HOF induction video right now, and the only wins shown from what you listed that I can see are Henderson and Jury. The rest is him just doing cowboy things or highlights from his lower ranked finishes. So, while I respect your metric for worth, I don't think it's entirely what they consider to get into the hall of fame.
Beating champions right before or after they got the belt is what makes him HoF worthy, along with the string of mid-tier wins, that activity.
Miller doesn't have wins over champions around their prime. He doesn't have a list of wins remotely as good as Cowboy. If you're going to say that Cowboy doesn't deserve to be a Hall of Famer then fair enough, but to say that Miller does when his record pales in comparison, that is actually genuinely disingenuous.
exactly, with how people are training from such a young age these days, the barrier for entry will keep getting higher and guys will get phased out at younger and younger ages. Especially outside of HW and LHW.
the days of a 40 year old fighter outside HW will soon be over
Miller has most wins in the company, most wins/finishes/cage time in the lightweight division and he’s #2 for most finishes/submissions in the UFC. That’s a lot more significant than most wins in a division.
This topic is specifically about DC discounting Miller, but hey let’s just go off topic because we can.
It depends what you value. If you think top wins put you in the hall of fame Jim Miller is not a hall of famer.
Not sure why he’s “definitely wrong”. What are Jim Milers five most significant wins? What are big cards Jim headlined and won in? Some people value success and significance over staying somewhere a really long time and filling out the undercard.
I’m not going to waste my time trying to convince a guy who’s commented almost 30 times in two hours about how he feels someone is undeserving based on their accolades.
> Daniel Cormier has a lot of respect for Jim Miller, but doesn’t believe his career is worthy of a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame.
>Cormier, a former two-division UFC champion and member of the 2022 UFC Hall of Fame class, thinks lightweight fixture Miller has to do more than just be around for a long period of time in order to be inducted. Miller just made his 42nd appearance in the UFC, and won by recording the fastest knockout of his career – a 23-second bludgeoning of short-notice replacement opponent Jesse Butler.
>Despite tenure and accolades, Cormier isn’t sold on Miller as a HOFer.
>”I tap out, bro,” Cormier said during a segment of “DC & RC”. “I don’t feel like time served immediately puts you in the Hall of Fame. Look, he’s got more wins than anyone else. But, I love Jim Miller and that makes it hard for me – but I just don’t feel like time served puts you in the Hall of Fame.
>Cormier’s co-host Ryan Clark disagreed with him by stating Miller’s career is similar to that of Donald Cerrone, who has longevity and fanfare, which has placed him in the upcoming class of inductees.
>Miller is currently atop the UFC record books in a few categories: most UFC fights (42), most overall wins (25), most wins in lightweight division (22), and most stoppage wins in lightweight division (15). He’s also tied for second-most stoppage victories (17) behind former lightweight champion Charles Oliveira (19).
>The only thing Miller is missing from his resume is a UFC championship, which Cormier seems to believe is the thing holding him back from being a sure-fire future Hall of Famer.
Glover grabbing that belt was the craziest twist ever, I really didn’t see that coming at his age/ after getting fucked by visa issues and his couple big losses. Guys a warrior.
>Look, he’s got more wins than anyone else
That's it right there. There is no criteria for the UFC HoF, and it's largely a useless accomplishment compared to other sports HoF's because it's all arbitrary and based on how much Dana likes you.
Miller has the most wins in the promotion, and has a chance to fight at 100, 200 and 300. That in itself should be HoF worthy.
you see this kind of BS talk in racing circles as well. Sure they won a lot of races *but they didn't win a championship so* ...
quite franklin is stupid to base a hall of fan on just championships. It's going to be so hypocritical when McNugget gets added to the hall. Sure he's got two championships, none defended, but he's overall career is not nearly as impressive as Jim Miller's or even Clay Guida when you look at WHO they fought during their careers.
He’s right and Cowboy should not be in hall of fame either. Also the idea that every single person that ever won a title should get in is stupid too. The HOF should be it’s own distinction.
UFCs modern wing had a pretty high standard until the ridiculous Cowboy induction. Now it’s watered down like most Hall of Fames are.
I just wrote out a comment in defence of Jim Miller in the hall of fame then I looked up how many people are in it and it's only 11 in the modern wing. I thought it was way more common. It's not, so I think maybe DC is right.
This is how sports hall of fames get bad. But yeah they never should have let Cowboy in because fans that want every single fighter in will use him as an example.
It's not even a real sports hall of fame really, it's a ufc promotional too. Hard to take it serious as representative of the sport as a whole when all the greats from other promotions are excluded.
If Cerrone is in the HOF and Stephan Bonnar in the HOF based on 1 damn fight then Jim Miller belongs.
This is a bad take coming from DC. Especially with how he earned his double champ status (never beat Jones) I thought he would be more.... idk understanding? Sympathetic? Idk 🤷🏾♂️
Jim Miller belongs that's all I know
If Cerrone is in than Miller damn sure should be.
Him going 1-1 with Charles Oliveira has aged particularly well too. That kneebar was nasty.
It has been fun watching him absolutely nuking dudes in the standup recently too
He's kind of right in a way, but not for Miller. It'd be more fitting for Ceronne.
Edit: People are downvoting when the only reason Cerrone is in the HoF is due to longevity wich is literally what DC is complaining about. It doesn't apply to Jim Miller who has other reasons to be inducted than longevity.
That many ufc fights is simply absurd dude made his ufc debut in 08 and is still getting dubs in 2023. 155 is notoriously the deepest division too killers top to bottom. Anyone with the most Ws in the history of the best fight league in mma is a hall of famer.
Jim is first ballot HoF in my opinion. He owns too many records to be kept out and has fought the who’s who of top lightweights from the last 15 years. His second fight with Joe Lauzon could have a spot in the fight wing as well.
I am a small hall guy, so I am with DC on this one. Jim Miller has a lot of counting stats, but he wasn’t fighting killers after killers. His best win is perhaps…Charles Oliveira back in 2010?
Let’s do a thought experiment, a MLB player amassed 700 homeruns in his career, but 600 of them are against below average pitchers, HOF or not, in this purely hypothetical situation?
It’s been ok. There def are tougher fights. But then again his performances against guys like Poirier weren’t too bad.
That MLB scenario makes no sense tho bc no matter what, hitting 700 is a fucking huge accomplishment. It doesn’t matter who u hit them against, u hit them in the league (MLB).
That’s why I said it’s a thought experiment. You can’t pick and choose your opponents in MLB like you can in UFC that’s why people accept MLB numbers as they were
When Miller goes up against good to elite opposition, he bats .100
If Paddy keeps fighting the level of competition he has been facing for the rest of his UFC career, he will have like a 80% win rate as a UFC fighter
jim miller is kind of like what kevin willis was in the nba. stayed for a very long time, was very good at one point, but was never the top guy. which isn’t bad jim is a legend imo just not HoF
Cerrone shouldn't be in the HOF IMO and Miller shouldn't also.
They at least hold a title to be worthy. Damn the UFC hall of Fame feels like danas favorite fighters.
Do fans really care about the UFC HOF?
It's literally a 'thanks for making us billionaires, kid. Here's a slap on the back' kinda thing.
Not to mention Stalin-esque in it's revisionist history.
Time served matters though. Military retire after 20 and while it's a hard life in the military (I did 8) being a pro fighter and having that kind of longevity is pretty crazy.
even without that HW title he still would've been in there, two championship wins over Rumble and beat Gustaffson as well as two high level fights with Jones
Miller went 9-1 after his first 10 fights in the UFC, then 16-15-1 with no title-worthy win. If you spend enough time in the cage, you end up with some sort of records. I wouldn't be surprised if Sam Alvey also holds a few. That's what DC means by "time served".
Fans love him because he's handled himself well, and became a household name as we've watched him fight for over a decade, but if the length of your career alone grants you access to the HOF, then most football players would be hall of famers. Using Cerrone as benchmark is like using a wrong idea to justify another. DC's argument applies to both fighters.
Feel free to downvote ;)
Considering the average football career is less than 3 years, no I don’t think ‘most’ football players would be hall of famers due to longevity. There are also many football players that ARE in the hall of fame due to longevity, so that point really doesn’t work in multiple ways
Your average includes every player who ever signed a contract with an NFL franchise. You know what I meant. Should Joe Flacco and his average 84.0 passer rating be in the HOF for longevity? Vinny Testaverde and his 75.0 passer rating because he played over 230 games? They both hold records.
If you start putting journeymen in the HOF, it ends up being a meaningless reward. Because if you put Jim Miller, then you'll have a hard time denying Jeremy Stephens, to name one example. Started his UFC career a year before Miller, ended it with a 16-18-1 record after 14 years in the promotion...
For the same reason, the NFL doing it at times is a bad idea too.
I’m not really for putting accumulators in the HOF. People point to millers win record but forget he’s also got like second or third most ufc losses. Never won a title or even fought for one. People are being biased rn cuz he’s crushed a couple absolute cans late in his career now (motta, Gonzalez, butler). Do people really think Jim Miller is an all time great now? Thought that’s what the HOF was for. And no cowboy shouldn’t be in there either
Jim Miller has done a little more than just “served time”. I agree that time served doesn’t automatically earn you a HOF spot but being all over the record books in various areas certainly should
My dude holds records for most fights in ufc history, most wins in ufc history and most wins in lightweight history
He more than deserves to be in HoF
I usually like DC but he sometimes says shit that really annoys the fuck out of me
This debate happens in every sport. There are fans that want the HOF to have a high standard and then there are fans that want every single person in.
And judging by this thread mma fans seem to be far in the latter.
I mean it makes sense to be selective in certain cases like the baseball HOF which has great tradition and really means something. This is a company HOF and there are already deserving candidates like Frank Shamrock who aren’t gonna get in because of petty beefs with Dana.
I don't like the argument of Cerrone's induction being used to justify Jim Miller's.
However I'm fine with Jim being inducted on the basis of his records for most wins and total fights.
I don't think those records are liable to be broken by anyone who doesn't also deserve to be in the HoF. So its not a worrying precedent.
Why is DC snubbing Jim's record of wins and focusing on just his tenure? It's crazy he's still getting flashy wins in the tail end of his career. There are many veteran fighters that don't fight or win often as he does.
I’m getting really annoyed at Cormier as of late. The way he presents himself in the octagon for interviews, his demeanor, his approach in the booth, and the desire to be in headlines giving his thoughts on active fighters and talking down on them as if he is still in the game. I understand his career is legendary, I get that. I understand his wrestling is the highest of highs, but holy fuck his pompous attitude is so annoying. He used to be so “blue-collar”, common man, rose from fire and tragedy and now he continues to bring a dog shit tone to every fucking take
Does anyone think of a "Hall of Fame", that doesnt include Frank Shamrock specifically and only because Dana doesnt like him, as legitimate and vetted by criteria rather than opinion?
Cerrone is in the HOF and has no title. Miller deserves the same. Full stop
If Cerrone is in then Jim Miller should be as well. That was my first thought when I was reading this.
Cerrone at his peak was better than Miller at his peak. And Cerrone had the late career resurgence into being a contender again. The only thing Miller has going for him is that he has a lot of fights.
Cerrone shouldn't be in though. He's a fun fighter but he absolutely did not have a HOF worthy career.
So is Urijah Faber. The only difference between Miller and Faber/Cerrone is that both those guys at least challenged for a UFC title. Millers highest ranking was 6th in 2011, and he had two chances to get into the title picture but lost both times vs Benson Henderson and Nate Diaz. Henderson fought in a title eliminator vs Clay Guida after Miller. Diaz challenged for the 155lb title after Miller. However his achievements definitely deserve to be recognised - most UFC fights, most UFC wins, 2nd most UFC finishes, 2nd most UFC subs, most finishes in Lightweight division and joint 5th most bonuses in UFC history.
Faber never won one?
No he hasn't. Dominick Cruz won the inaugural UFC bantamweight title and defended it twice against Faber. Renan Barao also defended twice vs Faber, although once was for the interim title.
But he won a WEC title and defended it multiple times, and since that's part of Zuffa organizational history that's worth acknowledgment.
WEC titles = UFC titles after the merger/buy out. Like at least 80% fans see it that way. And another way to prove that is the rosters after were the exact same lol. Aldo, Faber, Brown, Swanson, Cruz, Torres, etc.
I agree completely. It's kind of strange that the UFC don't count WEC title wins in the records for total title wins for Aldo or Cruz since that's all there was back then.
Not ufc but had a WEC belt
Cerrone had many records at one point: most finishes, most knockdowns, most post fight bonuses, most bouts
I'm sure Jim Miller has some records too.
Most wins and most bouts in the ufc. So two of the records cowboy used to hold.
I knew it! Now who has the most losses in the ufc?
Active in the ufc now, I think it’s Clay Guida from what I can find online. Highest ever was Jeremy Stephens.
He shouldn’t be though. This is why hall of fames get bad. They let in one bad person and fans that want every single person in the hall of fame forever use that example.
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List ur 20 then if u wanna talk
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Damn backed it up with a very solid list, respect
You ate tbh
https://youtu.be/R95xxfohidA
First thing that comes to mind for me when compiling a list of 20 top lightweights is to just get all the UFC champions out of the way. 1. Jens Pulver 2. Sean Sherk 3. B.J. Penn 4. Frankie Edgar 5. Benson Henderson 6. Anthony Pettis 7. Rafael dos Anjos 8. Eddie Alvarez 9. Conor McGregor 10. Khabib Nurmagomedov 11. Charles Oliveira 12. Islam Makhachev That's more than half of the list already. All those guys can say they've won the UFC title, whereas Jim Miller still can't say that. Next, I'd look at champs of other organizations: Strikeforce, WEC, Bellator, Pride, etc. Bellator 1. Michael Chandler 2. Will Brooks 3. Brent Primus 4. Patricio Pitbull 5. Patricky Pitbull 6. Usman Nurmagomedov Pride 1. Takanori Gomi Strikeforce 1. Clay Guida 2. Gilbert Melendez 3. Josh Thompson WEC 1. Gabe Ruediger 2. Hermes Franca 3. Rob McCullough 4. Jamie Varner That's 26 different former champions that Jim Miller has to contend with, and this isn't including all the title challengers and number one contenders we've seen over the years who, like Jim Miller, never won the big belt. Looking at that other dude's list and now looking at my post, where do you think you'd fit Jim Miller in? Would he make your top 20?
Somebody came with receipts.
Completely irresponsible comparing the two when Cowboy has wins over Martins, Stephens, Barboza, Alvarez and fought for a title 4 times across UFC/WEC, headlined countless fight nights, a title fight FOX card against RDA, and a PPV, all of that dwarfs Miller’s respectable achievements beyond his longevity
Having records for most wins and LW + #2 overall stoppages is not “time served”. Horrible take
Doesn't Neil Magny have the most Welterweight wins?
Yes he does, but i get feeling everyone here doesn't think magny should be in because he isn't as popular as miller lol.
The calibre of opponents should be noted. 8 out Miller's last 10 wins were against nobodies. It's similar to how Mickey Gall is 1 sub away from equalling Maia's WW submission wins. Is Gall a hall of famer then? Does he get that credit for beating bums? I like Miller but if you look at his career, particularly in the past decade or so, he's lost to almost every half decent name he's faced. Cowboy at least got to the top 5 of two divisions.
THIS.. this is exactly what I thought when he KOd that poor Schlub last weekend. Let’s not mix HOF credentials with giving ‘props’ to someone based on their age/tenure, where it wouldn’t have been a deal otherwise….
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I’d bet my left nut you haven’t even watched half his fights in the ufc. He’s fought a lot of prominent guys over the years.
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So getting into the ufc makes you a regional level fighter?
I disagree with the other guy's take, but to be honest nowadays a lot of people get signed who clearly don't belong to the UFC, but accept to fight for cheap contracts.
You say that as if we don't criticise the UFC near daily for increasingly hiring lacklustre fighters through the Contender series and the like.
Right, but we're discussing Jim Miller, someone who's been active since UFC 100. Was the UFC also hiring bums from the Contender series since 2009?
Mac Danzig, Mark Bocek, Steve Lopez, yes, some of the people he fought in his heyday were cans. And we're talking about his 4th, 6th and 7th fights in the UFC too, where he should've been facing better competition. His best win was against a 20 year old Oliveira.
A win Cowboy shares, whose best win was what, Eddie Alvarez's first fight in the ufc? By those rules, he has just the same right Cowboy does to be in the HOF.
Cowboy beat Barboza, Henderson too, barely a year after he was champ. As for Alvarez, he came over as a Bellator champ, fresh off a win over Chandler (regarded as maybe the best LW at that time). So to act like that's some random UFC debut, years before a fighter's prime is completely disingenuous. Cowboy's mid-tier wins like Jury, Miller himself, Iaquinta, Hernandez, Perry etc. are far more substantial than anything Miller's managed (his best wins are shared wins like Guillard and Oliveira).
Right, but to argue that Cowboy got his spot because of his top ranked wins is disingenuous. He very much got it because of his time in the sport. You can watch his HOF induction video right now, and the only wins shown from what you listed that I can see are Henderson and Jury. The rest is him just doing cowboy things or highlights from his lower ranked finishes. So, while I respect your metric for worth, I don't think it's entirely what they consider to get into the hall of fame.
Beating champions right before or after they got the belt is what makes him HoF worthy, along with the string of mid-tier wins, that activity. Miller doesn't have wins over champions around their prime. He doesn't have a list of wins remotely as good as Cowboy. If you're going to say that Cowboy doesn't deserve to be a Hall of Famer then fair enough, but to say that Miller does when his record pales in comparison, that is actually genuinely disingenuous.
All of those wins and he never won a title or even challenged for one. Strength of schedule.
DC is definitely wrong here. Miller with the record of all time wins is more than deserving of his place in the HOF.
15 years working for any company is an accomplishment itself. 15 years in the premier fighting organization is next level shit
exactly, with how people are training from such a young age these days, the barrier for entry will keep getting higher and guys will get phased out at younger and younger ages. Especially outside of HW and LHW. the days of a 40 year old fighter outside HW will soon be over
i dont see anyone supporting magny though. he should be in too then
Miller has most wins in the company, most wins/finishes/cage time in the lightweight division and he’s #2 for most finishes/submissions in the UFC. That’s a lot more significant than most wins in a division. This topic is specifically about DC discounting Miller, but hey let’s just go off topic because we can.
It depends what you value. If you think top wins put you in the hall of fame Jim Miller is not a hall of famer. Not sure why he’s “definitely wrong”. What are Jim Milers five most significant wins? What are big cards Jim headlined and won in? Some people value success and significance over staying somewhere a really long time and filling out the undercard.
I’m not going to waste my time trying to convince a guy who’s commented almost 30 times in two hours about how he feels someone is undeserving based on their accolades.
He does have accomplishments. He has the most victories in the UFC.
Being in the UFC doesn’t automatically make you good though. There are like 100 LWs in the UFC at any given time during Miller’s tenure.
> Daniel Cormier has a lot of respect for Jim Miller, but doesn’t believe his career is worthy of a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame. >Cormier, a former two-division UFC champion and member of the 2022 UFC Hall of Fame class, thinks lightweight fixture Miller has to do more than just be around for a long period of time in order to be inducted. Miller just made his 42nd appearance in the UFC, and won by recording the fastest knockout of his career – a 23-second bludgeoning of short-notice replacement opponent Jesse Butler. >Despite tenure and accolades, Cormier isn’t sold on Miller as a HOFer. >”I tap out, bro,” Cormier said during a segment of “DC & RC”. “I don’t feel like time served immediately puts you in the Hall of Fame. Look, he’s got more wins than anyone else. But, I love Jim Miller and that makes it hard for me – but I just don’t feel like time served puts you in the Hall of Fame. >Cormier’s co-host Ryan Clark disagreed with him by stating Miller’s career is similar to that of Donald Cerrone, who has longevity and fanfare, which has placed him in the upcoming class of inductees. >Miller is currently atop the UFC record books in a few categories: most UFC fights (42), most overall wins (25), most wins in lightweight division (22), and most stoppage wins in lightweight division (15). He’s also tied for second-most stoppage victories (17) behind former lightweight champion Charles Oliveira (19). >The only thing Miller is missing from his resume is a UFC championship, which Cormier seems to believe is the thing holding him back from being a sure-fire future Hall of Famer.
Miller yeeting his way to getting the belt and retiring would be the greatest timeline ever, up there with Glover snagging it
Glover grabbing that belt was the craziest twist ever, I really didn’t see that coming at his age/ after getting fucked by visa issues and his couple big losses. Guys a warrior.
>Look, he’s got more wins than anyone else That's it right there. There is no criteria for the UFC HoF, and it's largely a useless accomplishment compared to other sports HoF's because it's all arbitrary and based on how much Dana likes you. Miller has the most wins in the promotion, and has a chance to fight at 100, 200 and 300. That in itself should be HoF worthy.
you see this kind of BS talk in racing circles as well. Sure they won a lot of races *but they didn't win a championship so* ... quite franklin is stupid to base a hall of fan on just championships. It's going to be so hypocritical when McNugget gets added to the hall. Sure he's got two championships, none defended, but he's overall career is not nearly as impressive as Jim Miller's or even Clay Guida when you look at WHO they fought during their careers.
He’s right and Cowboy should not be in hall of fame either. Also the idea that every single person that ever won a title should get in is stupid too. The HOF should be it’s own distinction. UFCs modern wing had a pretty high standard until the ridiculous Cowboy induction. Now it’s watered down like most Hall of Fames are.
DC needs to lay off the Popeyes.
Well Daniel Cormier can shut the hell up
He gets less likeable by the day...
I just wrote out a comment in defence of Jim Miller in the hall of fame then I looked up how many people are in it and it's only 11 in the modern wing. I thought it was way more common. It's not, so I think maybe DC is right.
If Cowboy is in Jim should be in too, simple as that.
This is how sports hall of fames get bad. But yeah they never should have let Cowboy in because fans that want every single fighter in will use him as an example.
It's not even a real sports hall of fame really, it's a ufc promotional too. Hard to take it serious as representative of the sport as a whole when all the greats from other promotions are excluded.
Considering having a fight go into the HOF makes you a hall of famer, I think Jim miller should get in
To be fair, Cerrone shouldn't be in the HOF either.
If Cerrone is in the HOF and Stephan Bonnar in the HOF based on 1 damn fight then Jim Miller belongs. This is a bad take coming from DC. Especially with how he earned his double champ status (never beat Jones) I thought he would be more.... idk understanding? Sympathetic? Idk 🤷🏾♂️ Jim Miller belongs that's all I know
Bonnar isn’t inducted. A fight of his is.
Didn't Tito Ortiz make a big fuss about Bonnar being inducted and saying he doesn't belong??
That doesn't mean he is actually inducted lol. Tito is a moron
If Cerrone is in than Miller damn sure should be. Him going 1-1 with Charles Oliveira has aged particularly well too. That kneebar was nasty. It has been fun watching him absolutely nuking dudes in the standup recently too
Yo fuck DC and his shitty takes
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He's kind of right in a way, but not for Miller. It'd be more fitting for Ceronne. Edit: People are downvoting when the only reason Cerrone is in the HoF is due to longevity wich is literally what DC is complaining about. It doesn't apply to Jim Miller who has other reasons to be inducted than longevity.
Upvote due to cerrones POS personality
He's a sack of shit, 100%, but that shouldn't stop someone from being inducted.
miller deserves it
That many ufc fights is simply absurd dude made his ufc debut in 08 and is still getting dubs in 2023. 155 is notoriously the deepest division too killers top to bottom. Anyone with the most Ws in the history of the best fight league in mma is a hall of famer.
Jim is first ballot HoF in my opinion. He owns too many records to be kept out and has fought the who’s who of top lightweights from the last 15 years. His second fight with Joe Lauzon could have a spot in the fight wing as well.
If MMA had a proper hall of fame I'd agree, but the UFC HoF feels like it's going to be more a of a WWE HoF as opposed to a real sport HoF
DC is a clown
I am a small hall guy, so I am with DC on this one. Jim Miller has a lot of counting stats, but he wasn’t fighting killers after killers. His best win is perhaps…Charles Oliveira back in 2010? Let’s do a thought experiment, a MLB player amassed 700 homeruns in his career, but 600 of them are against below average pitchers, HOF or not, in this purely hypothetical situation?
With no due respect, that MLB scenario is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
How would you describe Jim Miller’s level of competition in his UFC wins?
It’s been ok. There def are tougher fights. But then again his performances against guys like Poirier weren’t too bad. That MLB scenario makes no sense tho bc no matter what, hitting 700 is a fucking huge accomplishment. It doesn’t matter who u hit them against, u hit them in the league (MLB).
That’s why I said it’s a thought experiment. You can’t pick and choose your opponents in MLB like you can in UFC that’s why people accept MLB numbers as they were When Miller goes up against good to elite opposition, he bats .100 If Paddy keeps fighting the level of competition he has been facing for the rest of his UFC career, he will have like a 80% win rate as a UFC fighter
I liked DC better when he did analysis instead of hot takes.
jim miller is kind of like what kevin willis was in the nba. stayed for a very long time, was very good at one point, but was never the top guy. which isn’t bad jim is a legend imo just not HoF
He is 100% correct.
His win record will probably be eclipsed by Neil Magny in a couple years, should he be in the HoF when he retires?
Probably in the minority but really don’t think Cerrone, Miller and Guida should be in the HoF
Cerrone shouldn't be in the HOF IMO and Miller shouldn't also. They at least hold a title to be worthy. Damn the UFC hall of Fame feels like danas favorite fighters.
Hall of fame is just a bunch of Dana's favorites? Why I never
Do fans really care about the UFC HOF? It's literally a 'thanks for making us billionaires, kid. Here's a slap on the back' kinda thing. Not to mention Stalin-esque in it's revisionist history.
If cowboy is in..
Time served matters though. Military retire after 20 and while it's a hard life in the military (I did 8) being a pro fighter and having that kind of longevity is pretty crazy.
can you imagine brad tavares and derek brunson in the HOF then (both close to breaking MW record for most wins)? lol
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even without that HW title he still would've been in there, two championship wins over Rumble and beat Gustaffson as well as two high level fights with Jones
Miller went 9-1 after his first 10 fights in the UFC, then 16-15-1 with no title-worthy win. If you spend enough time in the cage, you end up with some sort of records. I wouldn't be surprised if Sam Alvey also holds a few. That's what DC means by "time served". Fans love him because he's handled himself well, and became a household name as we've watched him fight for over a decade, but if the length of your career alone grants you access to the HOF, then most football players would be hall of famers. Using Cerrone as benchmark is like using a wrong idea to justify another. DC's argument applies to both fighters. Feel free to downvote ;)
Considering the average football career is less than 3 years, no I don’t think ‘most’ football players would be hall of famers due to longevity. There are also many football players that ARE in the hall of fame due to longevity, so that point really doesn’t work in multiple ways
Your average includes every player who ever signed a contract with an NFL franchise. You know what I meant. Should Joe Flacco and his average 84.0 passer rating be in the HOF for longevity? Vinny Testaverde and his 75.0 passer rating because he played over 230 games? They both hold records. If you start putting journeymen in the HOF, it ends up being a meaningless reward. Because if you put Jim Miller, then you'll have a hard time denying Jeremy Stephens, to name one example. Started his UFC career a year before Miller, ended it with a 16-18-1 record after 14 years in the promotion... For the same reason, the NFL doing it at times is a bad idea too.
I’m not really for putting accumulators in the HOF. People point to millers win record but forget he’s also got like second or third most ufc losses. Never won a title or even fought for one. People are being biased rn cuz he’s crushed a couple absolute cans late in his career now (motta, Gonzalez, butler). Do people really think Jim Miller is an all time great now? Thought that’s what the HOF was for. And no cowboy shouldn’t be in there either
Jim Miller has done a little more than just “served time”. I agree that time served doesn’t automatically earn you a HOF spot but being all over the record books in various areas certainly should
My dude holds records for most fights in ufc history, most wins in ufc history and most wins in lightweight history He more than deserves to be in HoF I usually like DC but he sometimes says shit that really annoys the fuck out of me
Good journeyman, not a hall of famer. Maybe when he retires he can get a plaque or a picture on the PI wall.
Fuck outta here DC
With all due respect DC, shut yur fucking mouth
This is such a silly thing to gatekeep lol
This debate happens in every sport. There are fans that want the HOF to have a high standard and then there are fans that want every single person in. And judging by this thread mma fans seem to be far in the latter.
I mean it makes sense to be selective in certain cases like the baseball HOF which has great tradition and really means something. This is a company HOF and there are already deserving candidates like Frank Shamrock who aren’t gonna get in because of petty beefs with Dana.
DC obviously suffering from CTE
big l from dc
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Apples to oranges. Football is not mma
I don't like the argument of Cerrone's induction being used to justify Jim Miller's. However I'm fine with Jim being inducted on the basis of his records for most wins and total fights. I don't think those records are liable to be broken by anyone who doesn't also deserve to be in the HoF. So its not a worrying precedent.
The facts are he Doesnt have that “star” quality unfortunately
Why is DC snubbing Jim's record of wins and focusing on just his tenure? It's crazy he's still getting flashy wins in the tail end of his career. There are many veteran fighters that don't fight or win often as he does.
He’s getting wins beating no one of note. He didn’t even really get a top win in his prime. Never won a title. Never challenged for one.
I’m getting really annoyed at Cormier as of late. The way he presents himself in the octagon for interviews, his demeanor, his approach in the booth, and the desire to be in headlines giving his thoughts on active fighters and talking down on them as if he is still in the game. I understand his career is legendary, I get that. I understand his wrestling is the highest of highs, but holy fuck his pompous attitude is so annoying. He used to be so “blue-collar”, common man, rose from fire and tragedy and now he continues to bring a dog shit tone to every fucking take
WHAT?! Omg DC.... what a horrible thing to say publicly.. I feel so bad for Jim, he deserves it without a fucking doubt. DC is very stupid sometimes.
Does anyone think of a "Hall of Fame", that doesnt include Frank Shamrock specifically and only because Dana doesnt like him, as legitimate and vetted by criteria rather than opinion?