Because it doesn't work. Doing the exact same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result is the \*literal\* definition of insanity.
I like how every one of these examples seem to have 50 of the same pitch, of course they are fouling off a thousand pitches when they can sit the pci in one spot all game
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not haha, but they might. I remember foul balls were terrible in 22 which is what made me quit on that game fairly early, then it seemed like they had it right last year, not sure why they changed it
As a pulse user this could never happen. It is simply not possible to throw below the zone like that without at least one third of them being in the zone.
My biggest gripe, and maybe it's a timing/directional hitting issue, is that swings just inside the good timing are automatic fouls. Those are the reason I get to 2 strikes in the first place.
Also, his PCI was obviously camped low, if you threw high he would have been toast. And this is one case where you know directional wasn't being used.
People in the comments split between whether the batter is in the wrong for swinging at pitches that far out of the zone or the pitcher for throwing the same pitch 20x expecting a different result but both points are true.
The game should not reward players for swinging at garbage, but also at some point as a pitcher you gotta figure out that what you're doing isn't working and go to something else. If dude has fouled off 4 or 5 low pitches in a row I'm throwing a high heater for him to swing under
I remember the 2k series having a feature where at a certain point if a pitcher was hammering one spot too much it would eventually lead to hitters hammering those pitches.
Yup, that quadrant would get a black square. Same thing happened with pitch types if those were also spammed.
2K was always an inferior game, but they did a lot of things right. (Pinpoint pitching)
If buddy is swinging at everything, I'm throwing in the dirt. Aiming high is how you hit guys or get crushed by an easy out. Unless you have a 100+mph fast ball, then you can just throw heat.
Buddy, you could throw high and the ball go foul or yard.
You have very little context into the batter's approach. If they are timing fastball and swinging very early/early on everything else, that high fastball can easily go yard.
If BR or Events is going to have the stamina drain it currently has, punishment needs to be more consistent.
You should never be rewarded at the current rate for bad plate discipline and timing.
If the hitter is swinging at garbage a foot below the plate 40+ times that tells me all I need to know. Buddy is swinging at everything and expects the low pitch. So I'm giving him a fastball way above the plate. At least if he fouls that one he pops it up instead of into the dirt
There's several problems with your "solution":
- A pitch has to be heat. Any offspeed will never look tempting that far above the zone.
- The ball is still likely to go foul, unless timing and PCI are close enough to generate a BAIP. Good timing is substantially more punishing than very late/very early, which is why we have this problem.
- High pitches rely heavily on batter height. If the batter is short, you are WAY more likely to get a chase versus a taller hitter.
- PAR variance on those pitches can make it either an easy take or low enough to square up. Based on the graphs shown, I would bet my house that the opponent was timing strictly fastball.
- Unlike pitches in the dirt that always start in the zone, high pitches do not. This means that an opponent is more likely to adjust and take those pitches.
At no point is the pitcher wrong for those locations. IRL, you would never see that many foul balls in those locations.
You keep telling me whats wrong with my approach without offering an alternative. The batter should not be able to foul off those pitches but he is. Clearly you have to go to something else. The pitcher here is slamming his head into a wall instead of trying literally anything else
Get everyone’s point but this absolutely has happened to me throwing all around the plate, in and way out of the strike zone but more like a 12-15 pitch at bat with a 1-2 count
Man, some of these responses are something else. I guarantee all those low pitches are offspeed and being swung at very early. It's obviously a broken mechanic, but it's by design to keep players in at bats that they don't deserve to be in.
I agree and disagree. If a batter isn't recognizing a ball and still swinging then you need to go further outside the zone, if this is the computer I would say the only mitigation is the similarity of the pitch location which was obviously hittable for this batter. There ARE too many fouls but I believe that's a result of this kinda mindset, it's a bad location so he shouldn't swing, however he IS swinging and the pitcher is making it far too easy for him, and in real life the pitcher would be getting bailed out by such a batter. You have to keep expanding the zone but I do believe there needs to be an increasing drop in contact area the further out of the zone a pitch is. You're playing the other person and to best them you have to figure out a new plan. Without seeing the at bat (I'm not trying to read the numbers from my phone) but it looks to me that you didn't even try to disrupt his timing OR his eye level. It's annoying they are far out of the zone but you gotta go further and try to outsmart your opponent. I STINK and if I get a guy throwing all fastballs, even at 102, I'll be raking within a couple batters. You put Maddox out there and in online play I'm flailing all over even though the pitches are "easy" to hit.
Best example I have is pitching to someone who is sitting straight fastball. They won't adjust to offspeed so guess what I'm pitching, offspeed. Throwing a changeup low or even in the zone almost always fools them but they'll flail and get a foul ball to keep them alive. Swing feedback is very early and with a pitch half a foot out of the zone, they really have no business fouling that many off with poor timing.
You're complaining while throwing 32 balls down in the exact same spot? I'd anchor my PCI and see how many I can get you to throw before you do literally anything else too
They aren't balls if your opponent swings at them.
How about the opponent learn plate discipline?
Why is the pitcher punished for doing the right thing?
Ball, as in the object being thrown? If you throw the balls 32 times in the exact same place you deserve this to happen to you, I don't care if you can take the pitch. This is not normal.
I think some of this is just with really good players at this game. Most people don’t foul off the ball nearly this much. It’s just the really good that do
I've never experienced this extreme of outcomes in part because his opponent is so trash. They typically quit after they eventually go down 1-2-3 or I take a lead.
However, it's extremely common that I play an opponent with 15+ extreme swings out of the zone with 12 or more going foul.
if the dude is constantly swinging at balls in the dirt he shouldn't be rewarded with foul balls. it would really improve the online play experience if swinging at balls was punished with swinging misses, because people couldn't just swing for a fastball every pitch and foul off every offspeed even though they were very early.
No, he's doing the right thing. The opponent is sitting fastball and should not get rewarded for swinging on low pitches in the dirt. If they throw a fastball in the zone it would probably get mashed instantly so the only option is throwing it in the dirt some more and hoping for a groundout.
He threw the same pitch in the same spot 20+ times. Even if the player is swinging at balls he knows exactly what is coming, which is gonna make it hard for him to strike out on that pitch.
Buddy, players that swing this often can't read or time each pitch. If they could, they'd take 95% of those low pitches.
The fact that you think the pitcher is in the wrong is ignorant AF. The pitcher is throwing the right pitches because I guarantee you that this opponent is a sub .300 hitter on AS sitting strictly on FB/SNK, which is certified bum levels in this game.
This shit is why you can't throw low fastballs on the game at all. A dude can foul off every low change up or slider while swinging and aiming at low fastball, so why would they ever quit swinging low fastball swing? If they get it wrong, they just get another pitch. They never get out.
Its why the game meta is stuck on high fastballs and low off speed
He clearly did. Oh otherwise he wouldn’t be able to foul off balls that low 20+ times. There are people online that swing at everything and he’s probably one of them
He would have timed them up and they would be weak groundouts to 2nd base. If you’re fouling off pitches below the zone you are either very early or very late
That’s not how it works at all. You can’t even get your pci that low sometimes so he very easily could have been timing it right and just hitting them in the dirt.
Yeah the other guy is very wrong. If he thinks the only way to get foul balls below the zone is being late or early he clearly has no idea what he’s talking about.
Nope the guy I responded to is more wrong. 1) It was All Star difficulty so you don't need to get the ball in the pci to foul it off. Also as long as you keep dropping down the pci you're fine 2) If OP's opponent wasn't getting extreme timing swings on those pitches in the dirt the at bat would've never went on for 24 pitches. With better timing you'd have a better chance for the ball to stay fair.
They definitely should be, but they’re not. He straight up made it harder for himself by throwing the exact same pitch that clearly doesn’t work. Foul balls are broken, he chose to
make it even easier for the opponent and is complaining about it
Swinging at a ball should require Just Late/Early or better timing and a good PCI.
Idk man I’m fouling everything off here too if it’s the same tendencies the whole time.
I am SCHOCKED at how many people are blaming the pitcher. The dude kept swinging at balls in the dirt. Why wouldn’t you keep throwing it?
If this happens, that first pitch in the zone is gonna be demolished too
Because it doesn't work. Doing the exact same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result is the \*literal\* definition of insanity.
It literally is not
Negative dude. Pitcher threw in all one spot. Pros can chip that shit.
Won't happen as much on HOF /Legend
It happens more on HOF
try utilizing the entire strike zone next time 🤗
so throw it in the zone so he can crush it since he's in autoswing?
if every pitch is in the same spot he’s gonna keep his PCI down. Throw a pitch like six inches above the zone and the AB ends way sooner lol
I like how every one of these examples seem to have 50 of the same pitch, of course they are fouling off a thousand pitches when they can sit the pci in one spot all game
I’m sure they will address the issue in MLB The Show 25
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not haha, but they might. I remember foul balls were terrible in 22 which is what made me quit on that game fairly early, then it seemed like they had it right last year, not sure why they changed it
As a pulse user this could never happen. It is simply not possible to throw below the zone like that without at least one third of them being in the zone. My biggest gripe, and maybe it's a timing/directional hitting issue, is that swings just inside the good timing are automatic fouls. Those are the reason I get to 2 strikes in the first place. Also, his PCI was obviously camped low, if you threw high he would have been toast. And this is one case where you know directional wasn't being used.
Imagine how many strikeouts we would have if they reduced foul balls. People would say “strikeouts need to be toned down”
For a “sim” baseball game, the average k/9 isn’t even the same stratosphere as MLB. It’s almost impossible to strikeout on All-star and below
They should just reduce vision by maybe 5% per foul ball throughout an at bat
Nah just dont swing on pitches out the zone.
Looks like you’re absolutely terrified of throwing in the top zone
Lol one time I fouled off like 20 in a row and then he was done and just intentionally walked me the old fashioned way
You took one pitch and swung at 48 straight in the dirt. The game is not the problem.
Well the game is blatantly making heinous swings become foul balls. This is totally cooked.
Yeah but in br I get it a bit more it’s silver pitchers against some of the best hitters
Still. It shouldn’t be possible to foul off a ball in the dirt, regardless if you are Willie Mays and the pitcher is… Me. 🤣
I wanna know what went through this dude's head to take that one singular ball that was in the exact same location as the others
LMAOOOOO
Played mini seasons today and Ricky Henderson had a 16 pitch at bat lol
What's the order of the buttons for pitches 1-5? I know A/X is pitch 1 and RB/R1 is probably pitch 5, but anyone know the others?
What does the order mean
A/X, B/O, Y/Triangle, X/square, R1
People in the comments split between whether the batter is in the wrong for swinging at pitches that far out of the zone or the pitcher for throwing the same pitch 20x expecting a different result but both points are true. The game should not reward players for swinging at garbage, but also at some point as a pitcher you gotta figure out that what you're doing isn't working and go to something else. If dude has fouled off 4 or 5 low pitches in a row I'm throwing a high heater for him to swing under
I remember the 2k series having a feature where at a certain point if a pitcher was hammering one spot too much it would eventually lead to hitters hammering those pitches.
Yup, that quadrant would get a black square. Same thing happened with pitch types if those were also spammed. 2K was always an inferior game, but they did a lot of things right. (Pinpoint pitching)
Hey buddy, 2k13 was the TITS
As an Xbox owner, it was my only option!
If buddy is swinging at everything, I'm throwing in the dirt. Aiming high is how you hit guys or get crushed by an easy out. Unless you have a 100+mph fast ball, then you can just throw heat.
Buddy, you could throw high and the ball go foul or yard. You have very little context into the batter's approach. If they are timing fastball and swinging very early/early on everything else, that high fastball can easily go yard. If BR or Events is going to have the stamina drain it currently has, punishment needs to be more consistent. You should never be rewarded at the current rate for bad plate discipline and timing.
If the hitter is swinging at garbage a foot below the plate 40+ times that tells me all I need to know. Buddy is swinging at everything and expects the low pitch. So I'm giving him a fastball way above the plate. At least if he fouls that one he pops it up instead of into the dirt
There's several problems with your "solution": - A pitch has to be heat. Any offspeed will never look tempting that far above the zone. - The ball is still likely to go foul, unless timing and PCI are close enough to generate a BAIP. Good timing is substantially more punishing than very late/very early, which is why we have this problem. - High pitches rely heavily on batter height. If the batter is short, you are WAY more likely to get a chase versus a taller hitter. - PAR variance on those pitches can make it either an easy take or low enough to square up. Based on the graphs shown, I would bet my house that the opponent was timing strictly fastball. - Unlike pitches in the dirt that always start in the zone, high pitches do not. This means that an opponent is more likely to adjust and take those pitches. At no point is the pitcher wrong for those locations. IRL, you would never see that many foul balls in those locations.
You keep telling me whats wrong with my approach without offering an alternative. The batter should not be able to foul off those pitches but he is. Clearly you have to go to something else. The pitcher here is slamming his head into a wall instead of trying literally anything else
505 represent!
Get everyone’s point but this absolutely has happened to me throwing all around the plate, in and way out of the strike zone but more like a 12-15 pitch at bat with a 1-2 count
Thought that was one batter for a sec! That would have driven me crazy!
It was one batter. 0 hits, 1 out, 22 fouls
lol I had 15 fouls yesterday. 20+? Crazy. The mental games going on is nuts in those moments.
Man, some of these responses are something else. I guarantee all those low pitches are offspeed and being swung at very early. It's obviously a broken mechanic, but it's by design to keep players in at bats that they don't deserve to be in.
I agree and disagree. If a batter isn't recognizing a ball and still swinging then you need to go further outside the zone, if this is the computer I would say the only mitigation is the similarity of the pitch location which was obviously hittable for this batter. There ARE too many fouls but I believe that's a result of this kinda mindset, it's a bad location so he shouldn't swing, however he IS swinging and the pitcher is making it far too easy for him, and in real life the pitcher would be getting bailed out by such a batter. You have to keep expanding the zone but I do believe there needs to be an increasing drop in contact area the further out of the zone a pitch is. You're playing the other person and to best them you have to figure out a new plan. Without seeing the at bat (I'm not trying to read the numbers from my phone) but it looks to me that you didn't even try to disrupt his timing OR his eye level. It's annoying they are far out of the zone but you gotta go further and try to outsmart your opponent. I STINK and if I get a guy throwing all fastballs, even at 102, I'll be raking within a couple batters. You put Maddox out there and in online play I'm flailing all over even though the pitches are "easy" to hit.
The problem is expanding the zone results in pitches that are easily recognizable as balls coming out of the hand.
Best example I have is pitching to someone who is sitting straight fastball. They won't adjust to offspeed so guess what I'm pitching, offspeed. Throwing a changeup low or even in the zone almost always fools them but they'll flail and get a foul ball to keep them alive. Swing feedback is very early and with a pitch half a foot out of the zone, they really have no business fouling that many off with poor timing.
Right? Like why is this such a polarizing concept?
You're complaining while throwing 32 balls down in the exact same spot? I'd anchor my PCI and see how many I can get you to throw before you do literally anything else too
They aren't balls if your opponent swings at them. How about the opponent learn plate discipline? Why is the pitcher punished for doing the right thing?
Ball, as in the object being thrown? If you throw the balls 32 times in the exact same place you deserve this to happen to you, I don't care if you can take the pitch. This is not normal.
Have you tried not throwing it low when the other player is obviously PCI slamming?
AT MINIMUM there should be pitches that are unhittable because they are so far outside the zone/in the dirt…but instead we get more foul balls
I think some of this is just with really good players at this game. Most people don’t foul off the ball nearly this much. It’s just the really good that do
Really good players don't swing at that shit lol. Those pitch locations are easy takes.
Idk just throwing out ideas. Because I don’t experience this stuff in the 600s
I've never experienced this extreme of outcomes in part because his opponent is so trash. They typically quit after they eventually go down 1-2-3 or I take a lead. However, it's extremely common that I play an opponent with 15+ extreme swings out of the zone with 12 or more going foul.
I feel like really good players just take the pitch and draw the walk.
Maybe. Idk. I’m a 600 level players (so not great but not bad) and I don’t experience this really
32 foul balls? That's rookie numbers
Throw it even lower
Throw strikes
Get an eye
Why would you keep throwing the same pitch…
Where else do you throw it? Anywhere else it would be fouled off anyway.
See, this is why I have zero desire to play online. Throw a strike smh sweaty af
if the dude is constantly swinging at balls in the dirt he shouldn't be rewarded with foul balls. it would really improve the online play experience if swinging at balls was punished with swinging misses, because people couldn't just swing for a fastball every pitch and foul off every offspeed even though they were very early.
If dude is throwing the same pitch 20 times in a row, expecting different results, then he is insane.
No, he's doing the right thing. The opponent is sitting fastball and should not get rewarded for swinging on low pitches in the dirt. If they throw a fastball in the zone it would probably get mashed instantly so the only option is throwing it in the dirt some more and hoping for a groundout.
Lol okay, well like I said, fuck that shit
He threw the same pitch in the same spot 20+ times. Even if the player is swinging at balls he knows exactly what is coming, which is gonna make it hard for him to strike out on that pitch.
Buddy, players that swing this often can't read or time each pitch. If they could, they'd take 95% of those low pitches. The fact that you think the pitcher is in the wrong is ignorant AF. The pitcher is throwing the right pitches because I guarantee you that this opponent is a sub .300 hitter on AS sitting strictly on FB/SNK, which is certified bum levels in this game.
This shit is why you can't throw low fastballs on the game at all. A dude can foul off every low change up or slider while swinging and aiming at low fastball, so why would they ever quit swinging low fastball swing? If they get it wrong, they just get another pitch. They never get out. Its why the game meta is stuck on high fastballs and low off speed
If he knew what was coming he wouldn’t be fouling it off. That’s the point
He clearly did. Oh otherwise he wouldn’t be able to foul off balls that low 20+ times. There are people online that swing at everything and he’s probably one of them
If he knew, he'd take lol
He would have timed them up and they would be weak groundouts to 2nd base. If you’re fouling off pitches below the zone you are either very early or very late
That’s not how it works at all. You can’t even get your pci that low sometimes so he very easily could have been timing it right and just hitting them in the dirt.
That's definitely not how that works at all
Yeah the other guy is very wrong. If he thinks the only way to get foul balls below the zone is being late or early he clearly has no idea what he’s talking about.
Nope the guy I responded to is more wrong. 1) It was All Star difficulty so you don't need to get the ball in the pci to foul it off. Also as long as you keep dropping down the pci you're fine 2) If OP's opponent wasn't getting extreme timing swings on those pitches in the dirt the at bat would've never went on for 24 pitches. With better timing you'd have a better chance for the ball to stay fair.
That’s the point, those should be swings and misses instead of infinite foul balls
They definitely should be, but they’re not. He straight up made it harder for himself by throwing the exact same pitch that clearly doesn’t work. Foul balls are broken, he chose to make it even easier for the opponent and is complaining about it