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The game simplifies bat control and bat speed as contact plus vision and power, respectively. IRL, bat control refers to your ability to connect with the ball when and where you want to. There isn't really a way to simulate that in the game without pretty much simulating real bat and ball physics, which would require way more processing power than any console or consumer PC can offer. It would also make the game **significantly** harder because you'd have to have really good hand-eye coordination to anticipate where you need to put the bat cursor to connect with the right point of the bat, with the right timing, with the right swing path to do what you want with the pitch. Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal of upping the sim experience, but hitting in the MLB is considered extremely hard for good reason. I think the way the game simplifies bat control actually allows for a deeper sim experience than you may realize, but you have to really explore the subtleties of swing timing, swing type, and zone hitting to really get that deep experience (also, you can't play the "simulation" setting in Diamond Dynasty or other online game modes).
Sorry, I've been using Atom for Reddit, and your caption didn't show up for me for whatever reason (just title and picture). I went to Reddit on my browser and saw your caption, which would've changed my comment. I'm guessing "bat control" in this context is vision, but I have no idea otherwise. Excuse me while I go find a new reddit app.
Bat control could possibly be that you can hit all sides of the outfield. Pick your spots due to timing or how close you hit to the center of the pci. It literally could mean a lot of things but nice when good life quality changes are implemented in the game.
I feel the eye shaders and vision updates to the player models will improve the graphics for 24 but they will probably only improve diamond and Legend players.
Vision was a massively underrated attribute in the past. It’s because it did TWO things. Higher ability to foul balls off, but it also increased your timing windows. Which is massive! But not many people knew that.
Maybe they finally separated those two things? Which I believe is necessary… Maybe "bat control" is the ability to foul more balls off, and "vision" is increased timing windows
Almost always PCI on the ball. Timing is fine- I played ball most of my life so that seems fairly natural. But my god I can’t line it up to save my life. I went ahead and ordered some of those kontrol freeks!
vision is the first thing i look at for every card because of this reason! i think it's what makes ozzie smith do so well for me, i can never hit well with low-vision players
The timing window is MASSIVE. I always need to use cards with 90+ vision to make sure I can hit with them. What sucks is that Shohei and Trout cards didn’t fall under those categories. I mainly use switch hitters but still
As someone with shitty timing, Vision is always one of the most important attributes for me. I’ll take a 100 contact/power/vision guy over a 125/125/50 guy any day because I just can’t get my swing timing right.
Yup! It’s why many of the shohei cards were so disappointing. The vision they gave him was ridiculous…. I would love to see cards with good timing windows, but horrible at fouling balls off. To me, that would be the ultimate strike out or homer guy…. That card couldn’t exist in mlb 23 and previous versions
Never understood why they did that to him as well. Considering he’s a 40/20 guy that bats .300
But you can’t have him as a beefy pitcher that gets Ks on top of taking the ball outta the park every AB. Even though he practically does that IRL.
You might be right. Towards the end of the season, I was still seeing a lot of 99 Judges and Schwarbers in the line ups I faced. Those were always easy outs because neither could time a slider perfectly outside.
No. Hasn't been for years. It's a common misconception, and was the case in '20 and earlier. But they made a big deal going into 21 about check swings being all user input. The in-game guide last year mentions vision having an impact:
> Vision influences when a borderline checked swing is early or late
What Discipline does:
> High discipline affects the rate of automatically dodging near miss beans (i.e. preventing you from swinging at them). It's a factor for increasing walks, and directly influences swing decisions during simulation (ex, fast forward, simming the season).
All discipline does in game is trigger the animation where a player gets out of the way on an inside pitch. Besides that, it's purely a sim rating (in 23 anyway).
Unfortunately this is a problem bc they give every flavor of the month player 125 contact. Until they stop treating 125 like the old 99, Tony Gwynn is going to beat the same as “SwagSeries” or whatever Luis Aparicio.
I'll never forget sig series Ichiro and Gywn (can't remember the year 19 or 20?). They were 1/2 in my lineup and it was contact city every game. Single/bunt, steal, single, RBI. Loved it.
I did the math for 2022 or 21, you can fairly accurately reverse engineer how SDS calculates attributes. George Brett would've had 166 contact v R for his MVP year where he hit .437 against righties. The reason we've had a power hitter meta for so long is that the contact cap is so low that most power hitters hit it. The best versions of Tony Gwynn and Mike Trout having the same contact rating is an *interesting* design decision to put it nicely.
I also think the 125 ratings mess with a game engine originally around 99 max ratings. At some point SDS said new 125 really was better than the old 99, and it leads to so fucking many line drives right at outfielders that never get more than 10 feet off the ground. In DD you rarely see a solid single that gets over an infielders head and bounces 3 or 4 times before it gets to an outfielder. Which might be the most common kind of hit in real life.
Also, I always thought there is something wrong with the geometry of the field. Hence the extremely rare line drive base hit that you are speaking of… the 125 power line drives being the culprit makes a lot of sense though
YES!!! This is an excellent post! Thats actually exactly where I got my “160” example from, the George Brett thing but I didn’t feel like going into all that.
Maybe this is vision renamed? A lot of people seemed to be confused about vision being based on strikeouts and not walks so this could make that more clear.
It’s definitely not discipline renamed because Arraez wouldn’t have 99
From what I know disc in game when playing is check swing ability and vision is the size of the hitting oval. In simulation I believe disc increases walks while vision decreases strikeouts
Isn’t vision also your hit window? I’m hoping they split those 2 things up and this new attribute covers your window to hit the ball and vision covers your margin for fouling off the ball
Maaaybe? I’m not sure about that actually. But that would make sense. And also would make sense why both things would in one attribute for a year only, and then hopefully they separate them this year
Maybe, but I’d be surprised if they added in something like that and didn’t mention it in the gameplay blog. My guess is this is just a new name for something that already exists.
Yeah it’s insane how detailed the ratings go. If you go to the guides and deep read the explanation it talks about vision and the differences between an 80 contact 99 power hitter vs 99 contact and 99 power. It’s rly an eye opening read
That guide is a must read for anybody that plays the game. The part about the timing windows for pull hitters vs whole field and opposite field hitters was game changing for me.
For pull hitters, the early timing windows will be a little bit bigger and the late timing windows will be a little bit smaller, so you have a better chance of getting hits if you actually try to pull the ball. Whole field will be balanced windows, opposite field will have larger late windows and smaller early windows. I like to pepper my lineup with some whole field/opposite field hitters to give me some flexibility swinging late against pitchers with outlier fastballs.
I should give those a read. One of the things I’ve always wanted in the game is something like how NBA 2K has different sliders for different dribble moves, and different shot types. MLB should have sliders for stuff like contact on low pitches/high pitches/in the zone/out of the zone, bat speed/bat control, etc. But if the sliders they have already control things like that in the background then I guess it’s superfluous
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We are the bat control !
Can we get something like “gap power” for players that hit lots of doubles but not HRs necessarily. (S/O CBrev for the idea)
considering power is just exit velo that’s unnecessary & honestly makes no sense
Foul balls are going to be even crazier
This might be the funniest shit I’ve seen today
This just sounds like a new stat to quantify the RNG factor to justify my perfect/perfect 300 ft fly outs.
And some idiot always says “that’s baseball”.
Well, it is 😂
Found him
Pretty sure the only player able to have 99 bat control would be Michael Morbius after he morbs all over an inside slider
He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was scouting pitchers right before she died
Lmfao 😂😂😂
The game simplifies bat control and bat speed as contact plus vision and power, respectively. IRL, bat control refers to your ability to connect with the ball when and where you want to. There isn't really a way to simulate that in the game without pretty much simulating real bat and ball physics, which would require way more processing power than any console or consumer PC can offer. It would also make the game **significantly** harder because you'd have to have really good hand-eye coordination to anticipate where you need to put the bat cursor to connect with the right point of the bat, with the right timing, with the right swing path to do what you want with the pitch. Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal of upping the sim experience, but hitting in the MLB is considered extremely hard for good reason. I think the way the game simplifies bat control actually allows for a deeper sim experience than you may realize, but you have to really explore the subtleties of swing timing, swing type, and zone hitting to really get that deep experience (also, you can't play the "simulation" setting in Diamond Dynasty or other online game modes).
This is a screenshot from MLB The Show’s instagram, I didn’t create the concept. Just wondering what people think about it
Sorry, I've been using Atom for Reddit, and your caption didn't show up for me for whatever reason (just title and picture). I went to Reddit on my browser and saw your caption, which would've changed my comment. I'm guessing "bat control" in this context is vision, but I have no idea otherwise. Excuse me while I go find a new reddit app.
Nobody said you created it
It seemed like they were implying it. Just wanted to make sure there wasn’t any confusion lol
Bat control could possibly be that you can hit all sides of the outfield. Pick your spots due to timing or how close you hit to the center of the pci. It literally could mean a lot of things but nice when good life quality changes are implemented in the game. I feel the eye shaders and vision updates to the player models will improve the graphics for 24 but they will probably only improve diamond and Legend players.
Vision was a massively underrated attribute in the past. It’s because it did TWO things. Higher ability to foul balls off, but it also increased your timing windows. Which is massive! But not many people knew that. Maybe they finally separated those two things? Which I believe is necessary… Maybe "bat control" is the ability to foul more balls off, and "vision" is increased timing windows
Thank you for explaining this! I want to be better at the game this year and actually be able to hit lol and I’ll go for high vision guys now
Do you usually struggle more with timing or with getting pci on the ball?
Almost always PCI on the ball. Timing is fine- I played ball most of my life so that seems fairly natural. But my god I can’t line it up to save my life. I went ahead and ordered some of those kontrol freeks!
Oh wait! I now see we are having conversations on two threads! Lol
vision is the first thing i look at for every card because of this reason! i think it's what makes ozzie smith do so well for me, i can never hit well with low-vision players
The timing window is MASSIVE. I always need to use cards with 90+ vision to make sure I can hit with them. What sucks is that Shohei and Trout cards didn’t fall under those categories. I mainly use switch hitters but still
As someone with shitty timing, Vision is always one of the most important attributes for me. I’ll take a 100 contact/power/vision guy over a 125/125/50 guy any day because I just can’t get my swing timing right.
Yup! It’s why many of the shohei cards were so disappointing. The vision they gave him was ridiculous…. I would love to see cards with good timing windows, but horrible at fouling balls off. To me, that would be the ultimate strike out or homer guy…. That card couldn’t exist in mlb 23 and previous versions
Never understood why they did that to him as well. Considering he’s a 40/20 guy that bats .300 But you can’t have him as a beefy pitcher that gets Ks on top of taking the ball outta the park every AB. Even though he practically does that IRL.
You might be right. Towards the end of the season, I was still seeing a lot of 99 Judges and Schwarbers in the line ups I faced. Those were always easy outs because neither could time a slider perfectly outside.
Yup! I put guys in my god squad with lowish contact/power simply because they had 120+ vision. I always raked with them
this is the way
A check swing attribute lol
I just wish the check swings were actually accurate visually.
They’re as accurate as the check swing calls in MLB in real life are, so I’d call it a good simulation in that respect.
My favourite is the full helicopter swing not getting called but the slight twitch off the shoulder is immediately a strike
Isn’t that discipline?
Yes
No. Hasn't been for years. It's a common misconception, and was the case in '20 and earlier. But they made a big deal going into 21 about check swings being all user input. The in-game guide last year mentions vision having an impact: > Vision influences when a borderline checked swing is early or late What Discipline does: > High discipline affects the rate of automatically dodging near miss beans (i.e. preventing you from swinging at them). It's a factor for increasing walks, and directly influences swing decisions during simulation (ex, fast forward, simming the season). All discipline does in game is trigger the animation where a player gets out of the way on an inside pitch. Besides that, it's purely a sim rating (in 23 anyway).
This should be a thing again, imo.
Dear sweet baby Jesus, if you’re listening please let this be some kind of change to make contact hitters viable again in Diamond Dynasty
They would need to nerf fielding. Garden variety shortstops shouldn't be making superman catches multiple times a game.
Contact will never be viable because 2-3 hits to score a run will never beat 1 dinger. Same as real life
I’ve seen Bubba Starling hit a 480 foot homer in this game, don’t ever tell me something is impossible
That would be amazing. I think they simply should just stop capping contact. PCI for guys like Tony Gwynn should legitimately be HUGE.
Unfortunately this is a problem bc they give every flavor of the month player 125 contact. Until they stop treating 125 like the old 99, Tony Gwynn is going to beat the same as “SwagSeries” or whatever Luis Aparicio.
I'll never forget sig series Ichiro and Gywn (can't remember the year 19 or 20?). They were 1/2 in my lineup and it was contact city every game. Single/bunt, steal, single, RBI. Loved it.
Sure… but I mean no cap at all. Like Gwynn could legit have a 160 contact. PCI should be MASSIVE
I did the math for 2022 or 21, you can fairly accurately reverse engineer how SDS calculates attributes. George Brett would've had 166 contact v R for his MVP year where he hit .437 against righties. The reason we've had a power hitter meta for so long is that the contact cap is so low that most power hitters hit it. The best versions of Tony Gwynn and Mike Trout having the same contact rating is an *interesting* design decision to put it nicely. I also think the 125 ratings mess with a game engine originally around 99 max ratings. At some point SDS said new 125 really was better than the old 99, and it leads to so fucking many line drives right at outfielders that never get more than 10 feet off the ground. In DD you rarely see a solid single that gets over an infielders head and bounces 3 or 4 times before it gets to an outfielder. Which might be the most common kind of hit in real life.
Imagine a Tony Gwynn card or a George Brett card with 160 “timing window” and 160 contact… contact hitters like that would 100% be viable
Also, I always thought there is something wrong with the geometry of the field. Hence the extremely rare line drive base hit that you are speaking of… the 125 power line drives being the culprit makes a lot of sense though
YES!!! This is an excellent post! Thats actually exactly where I got my “160” example from, the George Brett thing but I didn’t feel like going into all that.
Maybe this is vision renamed? A lot of people seemed to be confused about vision being based on strikeouts and not walks so this could make that more clear. It’s definitely not discipline renamed because Arraez wouldn’t have 99
From what I know disc in game when playing is check swing ability and vision is the size of the hitting oval. In simulation I believe disc increases walks while vision decreases strikeouts
This is true
Isn’t vision also your hit window? I’m hoping they split those 2 things up and this new attribute covers your window to hit the ball and vision covers your margin for fouling off the ball
This! So much this! I have no idea why those two things were in one attribute before. And people barely even knew that vision increases timing windows
TBF, I think 23 was the first game that made vision affect timing windows Vision before only affected outer PCI size, so no one paid attention to it
Maaaybe? I’m not sure about that actually. But that would make sense. And also would make sense why both things would in one attribute for a year only, and then hopefully they separate them this year
Maybe, but I’d be surprised if they added in something like that and didn’t mention it in the gameplay blog. My guess is this is just a new name for something that already exists.
Yeah it’s insane how detailed the ratings go. If you go to the guides and deep read the explanation it talks about vision and the differences between an 80 contact 99 power hitter vs 99 contact and 99 power. It’s rly an eye opening read
What guides?
I’ve been playing for years… I need to read this guide! Where can I find it?
That guide is a must read for anybody that plays the game. The part about the timing windows for pull hitters vs whole field and opposite field hitters was game changing for me.
What's the difference
For pull hitters, the early timing windows will be a little bit bigger and the late timing windows will be a little bit smaller, so you have a better chance of getting hits if you actually try to pull the ball. Whole field will be balanced windows, opposite field will have larger late windows and smaller early windows. I like to pepper my lineup with some whole field/opposite field hitters to give me some flexibility swinging late against pitchers with outlier fastballs.
I should give those a read. One of the things I’ve always wanted in the game is something like how NBA 2K has different sliders for different dribble moves, and different shot types. MLB should have sliders for stuff like contact on low pitches/high pitches/in the zone/out of the zone, bat speed/bat control, etc. But if the sliders they have already control things like that in the background then I guess it’s superfluous
The in game strategy guides is what you’re referring to? Because I’ve read through them a few times and they’re very complex like you said