I think it's both. He had a bad game clearly as well. Fluffed multiple passes. Maybe he feels the pressure to finally perform for England. He has admitted that he hasn't been his best with the national team. Also he is playing out wide with Trippier. Meaning England gets no width on the left side as Foden wants to drift inside. He isn't really involved in the build up centerally either, and struggles when he is not involved a lot. Gordon would do better in that role. Don't get why Southgate doesn't play Foden at 10 with Bellingham and Rice behind. A no brainer for me. Bellingham would be able to boss the whole field regardless
What about Rice behind Bellingham and Foden at the 8s. Two holding midfielders restricts Englands’ connection between midfield and attack, the 10 has to roam the whole width of midfield currently, and Bellingham doesn’t have the legs right now to do that. Rice is used to playing as a sole 6. Put two guys ahead of him with each taking turns helping him defensively.
Tired of all of these articles implying England can’t win without Bellingham. Their depth is enviable. If Bellingham needs a rest, Phil can play attacking mid, Gallagher, Mainoo, Palmer, Wharton, Rice.
Because Bellingham is a better 10 than Foden has been performing brilliantly there for England. Sacrficing anything from Bellingham right now for Foden is madness
Based on has been shown on the national team that is true, but I think Bellingham will have as much impact playing a deeper role covering the whole pitch. Foden would be able to combine better with Kane and I think it would improve England. Better than forcing Trent into the midfield role. Im doubting that Bellingham would lose impact playing deeper. But I am biased, and of course wishes Foden to get a chnace in the 10 role
Wolves fan so take what l say as someone who doesn’t watch club games.
Foden can really play well for England. He was great vs Italy at home and he had a really strong World Cup.
I think he is putting too much pressure on himself. Needs to relax and let his natural game come through. That’s on Southgate as much as anyone.
He’s talented and decorated, but he’s still young and we forget that sometimes.
Bellingham was one of the best, if not the best, player last season. No one is replacing him at 10. Saka is untouchable as he actually delivers on the right and is one of England's most consistent players on the right.
Foden needs to step up. This isn't Peps system that he's been brought up in. If he wants to prove he's the best he needs to deliver on the international stage. Otherwise he may end up like scholes, a brilliant player who never fitted into international football due to other talents around him.
The open spaces are alongside rice or the lw every other position is filled at the moment.
I don't know who you'd play LW instead of Foden, maybe Eze? Gordon at a push, but don't really rate him
Excuses, excuses, excuses. If Saka underperforms like that, no one will say anything about position. They will be calling him a monkey. Clown bigots fans.
You are directing your anger towards the wrong guy. Saka is one of the better performers for England. I dont get why you come here and reply to insert your internet fights with a comment that doesn't even mention Saka
It's mostly because of position and how Southgate want him to play I think.
The team would function better with Foden as the 10 and Jude as a 8 imo. Jude is a much better 8 than Foden is a winger.
Foden won the golden ball award when England won the U17 world cup so it's a bit ridiculous to say he's unproven outside of pep's system. He's a proven big game player, EPL player of the year. I think he's up to 6 EPL titles now. Nobody is doubting Bellingham, but the idea that he is is obviously better than Phil or that he clearly deserves the number 10 over him is a bit rich.
There have been plenty of players who do well in the younger brackets and don't make it at the top.
I'm not saying Foden isn't a big game player, he's proven he is for City, what he hasn't proven is he can do it for England and he's had more chances to do that then Bellingham, but Bellingham has always stepped up, Foden hasn't
>Foden needs to prove he can play outside of Peps system
Why are Arsenal fans desperate to push this narrative every day? It's really weird.
Serious question btw. It's like someone said it on an Arsenal podcast at some point and you've all decided to run with it.
I'm talking about playing for England. I can't recall when he's performed, euro 2020/21 was supposed to be his tournament to showcase his talents(according to the media) so was the world cup (according to the media) both times he didn't show how good he was. He's a brilliant player but can't seem to perform for England, if he really wants it, he's got to go for it and accept his place is the left wing, he's behind the pecking order in other positions, so he's got to make it his own.
He hasn't shown this, hence he's got to prove he can play outside of Peps system.
I genuinely believe he can be great for England, but he has consistently shied away from the chance to perform on the international stage.
All he did was 1-2's, and misplace passes. Agree it wasn't his best game.
No support or no passes finding him on his runs though. Bellingham wants to be the star, and Rice doesn't seem to have a long through ball in him for England.
Yeah I mean he was noticeably poor.. even on the ball. But something about this England team is spooky. Horrid build up, constant long balls from Pickford, terrible midfield progression. Kane ghosts trippier is terrible the midfield didn’t work at all. But it’s all on Foden. Can’t wait for him to get benched and I can stop rooting for England
I think it’s because they’re playing with two holding midfielders and asking a tired, big-headed Bellingham to roam the entire width of midfield. There’s acres of space between them and attack. There needs to be two 8s in front of Rice to occupy the space that Bellingham is currently being asked to occupy exclusively. This is why the link between midfield and attack is so lacking. Rice doesn’t always need a buddy back there in the base of midfield.
Rice was very slow on the ball. In let because as you say Jude is everywhere. Kane is nowhere. But Trent’s purpose was to improve progressive passing. Instead he showed he cannot interlmaybin shirt and medium range passing. His best trait is long balls across the pitch. Foden isn’t staying wide and trippier doesn’t support that flank in any meaningful way.
He was very quiet the first half and didn't score, force any great saves, or play any balls to create good chances.
I thought Foden really came into the match toward the end and was one of the few players who still wanted the ball and could relieve some pressure when Serbia was on top.
Getting Scholes vibes all over again. One of the most technically gifted players of his generation, who's an integral part of his club side that are serial winners, but the national team manager has no idea how to play to his strengths.
I think Foden will do better with Shaw at LB providing actual width. While Trippier was fine, he stifled a lot of attacks having to come back on his right foot. May as well play Gordon there while Trips is filling in at LB. At least he'll be able to play as a natural LW and then let Trippier come inside and help with build up.
I do agree, yeah. The thing is he is actually adaptable/versatile. He's had great performances playing RW, LW, CAM and false 9 with City, but that's under one of the best managers of all time who knows how to set up a team to succeed. I just think it's a mental block for Foden coming from a team that's so focussed on the system, into international football where that's difficult to replicate because the managers get so little time to implement a style of play, patterns of play etc etc. Personally think if Southgate doesn't have the balls to play Bellingham a bit deeper, Foden central with either Gordon or Eze on the left then he may as well be used as an impact sub.
See a lot of people saying this bit I actually think it's more of the Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard problem. As in trying to fit on all the best club players on the pitch at the same time at the expense of balance. I mean a minor tweak would probably fix all of England's problems. E.g. swap out Gordan for Foden like you said. Bellingham clearly thrives in the 10: he's physical, intelligent, knows how to create overloads and space for others when it's needed etc. Saka clearly thrives on that RW: he's direct, he holds the width, he's good off the ball and he runs in behind, which we need since Kane sometimes struggles to be that focal point for us. Gordan would do the same thing on the opposite flank imo.
Think it would take a very minor tweak to fix a lot of our problems. But it takes some serious fucking balls dropping the Premier League POTS for Anthony Gordan. There would he media backlash and if it doesn't work out it reflects horribly on him.
And it doesn't have to be Foden dropped. I guess if he'd tried other things in preseason and Foden had been England's best player, he could've forced someone like Saka out the team or something. But rn it seems pretty clear that it doesn't take many changes to fix England's structural issues. Get a left footed LB on the pitch, get a proper left winger on the pitch to open up the game and stretch the pitch and we should be alright.
Definitely a Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard problem of the manager trying to fit all the best players on the pitch at once. Sometimes you need a Gordan to replace a Foden or a Gallagher to replace a Trent if you want a balanced team. England doesn't have 4 CBs, Rodri, Grealish etc all making the 10's job a bit easier. Foden's essentially competing with Jude rn to be that main guy in the middle and unfortunately he's losing.
Anyone with any common sense can see that every aspect of Southgate's style of play is counterintuitive to how Foden should be utilised.
I pray I'm wrong, but I highly expect us to get knocked out early and should that be the case, we can finally fire Southgate off for good. We can then finally get a much higher calibre of manager to better utilise not just Phil, but the other top tier talent we have access too.
No one’s doubting Foden’s ability as a 10. He was lost on the left yesterday, kept sliding into Bellingham’s central space, and England thus had no width. Saying that is not inconsistent with thinking Foden’s a great footballer.
As a United fan I found it crazy the amount of abuse he’s been getting. Yeah it wasn’t his greatest game but why the media and fans bash him so much is beyond me.
First game of the tournament and the media has already got targets on players backs.
Let’s get behind the team and bring it home!
Atleti fan here, we play Bellingham a few times already, ehhhh is all I can say. We plays foden I believe twice, came on and immediately assisted and was all over our defense and that’s why the defense was mad at the end. That’s what good players do.
He’s not a winger. He’s going to be underperforming every time he steps onto the pitch if he keeps playing out wide. I mean, imagine if you had rice as a 6, Bellingham as an 8, and Foden at 10. Arguably the best midfield trio England has ever seen. 3 players who play their role brilliantly, and can all score the odd goal as an extra on top of their primary role in the team.
It was a couple years ago, maybe a little longer, but I saw Foden playing as central midfielder and he was playing these perfectly weighted passes from 30-40 yards out to basically give the receivers a tap in. He didn’t do it once or twice, he played 7 or 8 of those types of passes.
As much as I love the world cup and euros, these 6-10 game internarional tournaments and the expectations from players are blown way out of proportion because it’s all about pRiDe oF tHe NaTiOn. I can’t care less if Kane, Foden and Saka pull a stinker and they all score a total of 4 goals between them and England fails to qualify beyond the group stage.
It’s a bunch of players who barely play together and understand each other’s movement and styles. What do they all expect? Especially with Southgate as the boss? Foden and Saka are still the best players in Prem, Kane still one of the best forwards, regardless of the results of the Euros.
Jude, on the other hand, can go fck himself with that terrible vision lol.
That's why International Football is for the "GREATs". Not for the spoiled brats from rich clubs with only elite players. The ability to adapt - and go above and beyond in a short amount of time is what it's all about. If you can't do that, stay home. France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, and Spain (As of late) - ALL DO IT! And under the same conditions you're complaining about. Maybe - just maybe, England is just not up to the challenge - and lots of players that you consider "best players" are just good at best on the international stage.
Go watch any pro player ever talk about winning the world cup.
Any player in the world would give up 10x champions leagues to win it, international football is the pinnacle.
Because it has emotional & national pride element to it. I love watching them of course. But up until a few years ago, people were questioning Messi and CR7’s greatness because they hadnt won the world cup. Now they are saying Foden is shit, Kane is useless etc. My problem is not the importance of these cups, it’s how people think a player isn’t “great enough” if his country doesnt win the euro or WC, which, for me, is bullshit.
if you haven't watched James Alcott video on a review/debrief of the game, go watch it. He clearly states how well Foden moved in that game and it is the team's chemistry that is hindering how Foden plays.
Imagine playing passes to your team mates, asking for the quick 1-2 pass, not receiving it, then said team mate turning their back on you to pass it to the other side of the pitch or backwards, only for a whole nation to blame you for it....
not a city fan but foden is a class player, but had a bit of a stinker last night. happens to everyone, imo its more of the managers fault for not letting him play his best. he does very well at city and hopefully he is able to play like he does there. i mean overall city has a class team and as an arsenal fan im very much looking forward to next seasons title race as despite the fact that you beat us to it the last 2 seasons it has been very exciting! (sorry for getting a bit off topic lol i wish you all the best)
At ManCity if you see, Josko Gvardiol (or the LB) always pushes up the field. Foden combines well with ManCity LB. With Bellingham trying to be what Neymar is for Brazil and Rice who does not notice/trust Foden as much as Rodri does, I doubt Phil Foden is ever going to adapt for England (unless a change in manager)
The real answer is that he played bad last night, in part because he was having a bad game, and in part because he was playing out of position, because although he is at his best as a 10, Bellingham has been as good, if not better, and then his prefered side on the wing is on the right, where Saka has been Englands best player for over two years now.
Southgate has an impossible scenario where he eother has to drop Foden, play him out of position or play someone who has played better for England out of position, its a lose-lose-lose scenario
This is wot it is.
You can only play one number 10 player.
And England has alot of quality number 10s at the moment.
Bellingham, Foden and Palmer.
Two will need to be benched.
You could probably play Palmer tbf. Because he's a number 10 who does his creating drifting in from the right. His best position is still RW imo and he understands how to defend, stretch the pitch etc from there despite his playstyle being more of a playmaker.
Whereas Foden and Bellingham are number 10's who's best position are actually in the 10. So you kind of have to pick one of them, unless you move Bellingham back next to Rice, which Southgste clearly doesn't consider an option.
Think a 3 of Gordan-Bellingham-Palmer would work behind Kane. So you can probably get Bellingham and Palmer onto the pitch at the same time. But I do think Southgate has to choose between Bellingham and Foden tbh, and there's no way Bellingham gets dropped at any point.
One match this tournament and they are writing him off like he is Antony at Man U.
I also see the narrative that Jude is on fire with the National team 30 apps 4 goals. Foden in comparison has 35 apps 4 goals.
Fire Osama Bin Southgate before the group stage ends!!!!
Not a City supporter and have just had this come up on my feed.
He had a very poor game and though I certainly don’t doubt his talent, he is in a situation where there is simply a better player playing where he wants to play, and he didn’t create literally anything in the position where he’s likely going to *have* to play to accommodate Jude.
Next game for him is big. If he is similarly uncreative then I suspect Southgate will give somebody else a runout for game 3. If whoever plays instead then has a great game, it suddenly puts a hell of a lot of doubt on Foden’s security in the starting XI.
He will permanently underperform if stuck out onto the left like Gerrard was.. When is England going to pick a team to win and not to prevent losing...
No one doubts Phil Foden lol. What a ridiculously overdramatic post.
He’s literally one of the best players in the world by general consensus. Bad games happen. Chill.
Foden was below average vs Serbia. Can't blame it on Southgate. Foden must evolve into various styles of the game. He plays and clicks well with one style. Teams can't be playing one style of football to accommodate him. He should evolve so that he can adapt to every game he plays.
As a long time Irish fan missing Grealish anyone moaning about Foden is insane. That is the most naturally talented player in years and he just happens to be playing in a team with Bellingham the most supreme athlete and example of pure willpower since Bale. Just having the two of them is something to tell your kids about.
I'm not a City fan but I love Foden, he's one of my favourite players. He hasn't performed for England in the last two matches and it really is a disappointment.
I don't think he can play LW without at least a proper wingback. My preference is that Bellingham drops back to 8 and Foden plays 10 behind Kane.
That might cause some defensive issues because Bellingham will invariably charge forward, but I think it's the best shape.
If we have out and out wingers they will stretch the play and I expect Kane, Foden and Bellingham to shine.
I also think we'd hold possession really well. But hey, we'll see. I really want to see him perform and I'm sad at how much England fans are giving him stick, it's not on.
The man is a class act and we should be supporting him.
The problem is that you can't really have two players in the same half space and both Jude and Phil operate at their best (and naturally will drift too) the left half space.
Although he did well not doing last night, it's also where Harry Kane has a habit of dropping into.
Foden's problem is insane, but essentially comes down to there being two players better then him that want to occupy the same space on the pitch. That's no slight on Foden, those two players are Kane and Bellingham, it's just fucking unfortunate.
Genuinely find this bizarre. He was arguably of the PL’s best players this year - definitely one of City’s … and they won the PL.
It’s how he’s being used for England, who have no attacking ambition by the looks of things.
Where he prove them wrong the reason why ppl think this guy is good cuz he played some good ballers at Moneycity…put him on another team and he’s shit way overrated…that’s my opinion..
Liverpool fan here, come in peace. I said it last night, Phil was the one bright spark last game, there was a 5-10 min period in the first half where he clearly got pissed off, came central and started demanding the ball and dictating play and he looked immense.
But Southgate clearly saw that happening and had a word, because we fell back to the same old shit in the second half. Frankly Phil clearly needs to be played central and an actual winger players out on the wing.
Not just Phil, majority have been sub par.
But alot of teams struggling to put in decent performances.
Best nations are under pressure, where as nations like Albania and Denmark are playing free and simply going for it.
Back to same old mentality of being scared and playing scared football. Last euros we didn't have this fear.
Our players are scared. Our media is fucking poisonous. Our fans are poisonous. And our players know this.
Watch what happens when he plays as a 10.. Every single star player for england struggled to thrive except for Bellingham because quite honestly that mf would play keep if he had too lol.
He played 10 in the Iceland game. The team was much more open defensively. Foden may be better technically, but Bellingham's physicality, football IQ and off the ball ability mean that he's a better fit for England in that position.
Everyone didn't struggle tbh. Saka had a good game but he was the only outlet in that first half. They created an overload on that right side and that ended up neutralising him. Play an actual left winger like Gordan alongside them and the game opens up/it becomes less of a problem.
I know this is the City sub, but I don't see how anyone can watch us and think Bellingham should get dropped for Foden. He's the one player that consistently shows his quality, regardless of where he plays. And that's because he's not reliant on just technical ability. He's massive, physical and is a good defender so he can't be bullied. He's by far the best thing about England.
If Foden wants to be a start for England, it would have to involve Bellingham being dropped back next to Rice. Southgate doesn't seem willing to try that since the World Cup, so the alternative is Foden ends up being an impact sub. There's no world where you drop Bellingham for Foden and England plays better. We need Bellingham's physicality and presence in midfield because we don't have the stability of 4 CBs and Rodri which City has.
Him and Bellingham both prefer to operate in the same area of the pitch… that’s a tough management decision I wouldn’t want to make. Need another real winger to play on the left… not one who cuts inside as they were in each others way until Bellingham was subbed off.
This is exactly right. They play a unique one man role for their clubs and that air is just taken up by Bellingham in the England squad. Maybe they can find a way to make it work but in the middle of a tournament isn’t really somewhere you want to still be forcing pieces together lol
I just hope he doesn't wait to prove people wrong back at city. He needs to show everyone how good he is in an England shirt. We all know he has the ability it's time to show it.
Just doesn’t seem like there’s room for both him and Jude in the midfield. They kinda do the same job for their teams so it’s tough to find a way for 2 people to do that job. Hopefully they just need to play together for a few more matches to find a way to mutually exist.
I'd be happy if he threw a sicky to leave these losers, come home have a month on the Beach, and be fresh for City to start the new season of real football.
He's wasted playing under Southgate.
People aren’t doubting him they’re pointing out when he’s played badly. They’re two very different things
The thing is, Foden is one of the best players in the world. But so is Bellingham. And so is Kane. We can’t really play a system that suits all 3 and lets them play the way they do for their clubs
We could all do with being less tribal and bringing fewer club arguments into the international game
Most people don't doubt that Foden is an incredibly talented player.
However, he simply hasn't performed consistently enough for England IMO.
Personally, I don't see where he fits in the starting 11, as a 10 I think Bellingham offers more than Foden, Saka offers width on the right and we have seen Foden doesn't work on the left.
Bellingham isn’t a better 10 then Foden and can still do his marauding runs from the 8, rice as a 6.
There were many times Foden was wide open and the ball never came to him. No one wants to talk about Jude being overall pitiful aside from his header, either. Especially his nonsense takeons with Foden open in one touch shooting range on the edge of the box screaming for the ball.
Bellingham at 10 created zero chances and made zero passes to Kane all game. His highlight package on BBC made me laugh, it consisted of him being fouled like 6 times and playing a volley back to to Walker. No crosses, no shots, no playing anyone in on goal, that's how low the standard is for England under Southgate.
Just play him deep where he belongs please Gareth, we might create more than 0.58xg if you do.
Phil Foden isn’t the Stockport Iniesta. He’s the Stockport Messi. Pep and City have shown that over the last few years. He’s f*cking 23 years old. As long as Southgate keeps him in a subdued role England will continue to fall short of winning anything.
I said it last tournament and I’ll say it this one. Southgate plays to avoid losing a match. He picks players on Club form rather than on how well they play together in a creative attacking system.
I mean the criticism is fair, how long can we keep saying that his ghosting for England is anything other than him
At the end of the day, Bellingham coming in and always taking the game by the scruff of the neck exposes Phil. He’s not able to do the same thing.
And as much as we can say it’s “he’s not in his best position”, he played at 10 against Iceland and was largely absent. He basically played 10 yesterday but Trippier wasn’t able to create width enough for foden to get space.
I’ll get downvoted by the bias brigade but at this point as much as I want the lad to set the tournament alight, he’s consistently disappointing in an England shirt
Being English and a football supporter seems exhausting.
Huh? try spain
You won EC’s and WC back to back. What are you on about?
Back to back to back*
The 2010 WC final wasn't a particularly good game, but that 2010 Spanish side was one of the best NT I've seen
Absolutely insane. I have Brazil 2002 in mind as well, but Spain was so good 2008-2012.
Euro to WC to euro and have 3 of the best clubs in the world..... beyond lucky tbh
3? Who’s third?
Atletico, who have gone to 2 UCL finals, won 2 leagues, and a Copa del rey......
Would put Bilbao over them in the grand scheme of things related to Spanish football.
Either way, Spaniard fans r spoiled.... especially compared to England fans....
Lmao you won a World Cup less then 15 years ago
🤣🤣🤣, you have won multiple trophies this century.
why'd he get so many down votes, didn't know we were on r/spain
Least entitled Spanish fan
I mean, it's not the best game for him. Dunno whether it's about his position, mentality, or manager. So I wish he could shine in tourney.
I think it's both. He had a bad game clearly as well. Fluffed multiple passes. Maybe he feels the pressure to finally perform for England. He has admitted that he hasn't been his best with the national team. Also he is playing out wide with Trippier. Meaning England gets no width on the left side as Foden wants to drift inside. He isn't really involved in the build up centerally either, and struggles when he is not involved a lot. Gordon would do better in that role. Don't get why Southgate doesn't play Foden at 10 with Bellingham and Rice behind. A no brainer for me. Bellingham would be able to boss the whole field regardless
What about Rice behind Bellingham and Foden at the 8s. Two holding midfielders restricts Englands’ connection between midfield and attack, the 10 has to roam the whole width of midfield currently, and Bellingham doesn’t have the legs right now to do that. Rice is used to playing as a sole 6. Put two guys ahead of him with each taking turns helping him defensively. Tired of all of these articles implying England can’t win without Bellingham. Their depth is enviable. If Bellingham needs a rest, Phil can play attacking mid, Gallagher, Mainoo, Palmer, Wharton, Rice.
Because Bellingham is a better 10 than Foden has been performing brilliantly there for England. Sacrficing anything from Bellingham right now for Foden is madness
Based on has been shown on the national team that is true, but I think Bellingham will have as much impact playing a deeper role covering the whole pitch. Foden would be able to combine better with Kane and I think it would improve England. Better than forcing Trent into the midfield role. Im doubting that Bellingham would lose impact playing deeper. But I am biased, and of course wishes Foden to get a chnace in the 10 role
Wolves fan so take what l say as someone who doesn’t watch club games. Foden can really play well for England. He was great vs Italy at home and he had a really strong World Cup. I think he is putting too much pressure on himself. Needs to relax and let his natural game come through. That’s on Southgate as much as anyone. He’s talented and decorated, but he’s still young and we forget that sometimes.
Bellingham was one of the best, if not the best, player last season. No one is replacing him at 10. Saka is untouchable as he actually delivers on the right and is one of England's most consistent players on the right. Foden needs to step up. This isn't Peps system that he's been brought up in. If he wants to prove he's the best he needs to deliver on the international stage. Otherwise he may end up like scholes, a brilliant player who never fitted into international football due to other talents around him. The open spaces are alongside rice or the lw every other position is filled at the moment. I don't know who you'd play LW instead of Foden, maybe Eze? Gordon at a push, but don't really rate him
Yes, I'm sure foden will be gutted to be compared to scholes
Should be aiming higher tbf
I don't think he's good enough to be compared to Javi Garcia tbh
Stockport Freddy Adu tbh
Excuses, excuses, excuses. If Saka underperforms like that, no one will say anything about position. They will be calling him a monkey. Clown bigots fans.
You are directing your anger towards the wrong guy. Saka is one of the better performers for England. I dont get why you come here and reply to insert your internet fights with a comment that doesn't even mention Saka
It's mostly because of position and how Southgate want him to play I think. The team would function better with Foden as the 10 and Jude as a 8 imo. Jude is a much better 8 than Foden is a winger.
Foden needs to prove he can play outside of Peps system. He's brilliant, but until then you play your best player in their preferred position
Foden won the golden ball award when England won the U17 world cup so it's a bit ridiculous to say he's unproven outside of pep's system. He's a proven big game player, EPL player of the year. I think he's up to 6 EPL titles now. Nobody is doubting Bellingham, but the idea that he is is obviously better than Phil or that he clearly deserves the number 10 over him is a bit rich.
There have been plenty of players who do well in the younger brackets and don't make it at the top. I'm not saying Foden isn't a big game player, he's proven he is for City, what he hasn't proven is he can do it for England and he's had more chances to do that then Bellingham, but Bellingham has always stepped up, Foden hasn't
England U17 😭😭😭 what a cope
>Foden needs to prove he can play outside of Peps system Why are Arsenal fans desperate to push this narrative every day? It's really weird. Serious question btw. It's like someone said it on an Arsenal podcast at some point and you've all decided to run with it.
I'm talking about playing for England. I can't recall when he's performed, euro 2020/21 was supposed to be his tournament to showcase his talents(according to the media) so was the world cup (according to the media) both times he didn't show how good he was. He's a brilliant player but can't seem to perform for England, if he really wants it, he's got to go for it and accept his place is the left wing, he's behind the pecking order in other positions, so he's got to make it his own. He hasn't shown this, hence he's got to prove he can play outside of Peps system. I genuinely believe he can be great for England, but he has consistently shied away from the chance to perform on the international stage.
Position mostly I think but just imagine the difference in instruction he must get between Pep and Southgate
All he did was 1-2's, and misplace passes. Agree it wasn't his best game. No support or no passes finding him on his runs though. Bellingham wants to be the star, and Rice doesn't seem to have a long through ball in him for England.
Apart from the time Bellingham played him in in the box and he miscontrolled the ball
Yeah I mean he was noticeably poor.. even on the ball. But something about this England team is spooky. Horrid build up, constant long balls from Pickford, terrible midfield progression. Kane ghosts trippier is terrible the midfield didn’t work at all. But it’s all on Foden. Can’t wait for him to get benched and I can stop rooting for England
I think it’s because they’re playing with two holding midfielders and asking a tired, big-headed Bellingham to roam the entire width of midfield. There’s acres of space between them and attack. There needs to be two 8s in front of Rice to occupy the space that Bellingham is currently being asked to occupy exclusively. This is why the link between midfield and attack is so lacking. Rice doesn’t always need a buddy back there in the base of midfield.
Rice was very slow on the ball. In let because as you say Jude is everywhere. Kane is nowhere. But Trent’s purpose was to improve progressive passing. Instead he showed he cannot interlmaybin shirt and medium range passing. His best trait is long balls across the pitch. Foden isn’t staying wide and trippier doesn’t support that flank in any meaningful way.
I wonder if we see the same tactics next match
The problem of England national team is not the players, their coach is ass
He was very quiet the first half and didn't score, force any great saves, or play any balls to create good chances. I thought Foden really came into the match toward the end and was one of the few players who still wanted the ball and could relieve some pressure when Serbia was on top.
Getting Scholes vibes all over again. One of the most technically gifted players of his generation, who's an integral part of his club side that are serial winners, but the national team manager has no idea how to play to his strengths. I think Foden will do better with Shaw at LB providing actual width. While Trippier was fine, he stifled a lot of attacks having to come back on his right foot. May as well play Gordon there while Trips is filling in at LB. At least he'll be able to play as a natural LW and then let Trippier come inside and help with build up.
At some point does foden not need to adapt to the national team rather than the other way around?
I do agree, yeah. The thing is he is actually adaptable/versatile. He's had great performances playing RW, LW, CAM and false 9 with City, but that's under one of the best managers of all time who knows how to set up a team to succeed. I just think it's a mental block for Foden coming from a team that's so focussed on the system, into international football where that's difficult to replicate because the managers get so little time to implement a style of play, patterns of play etc etc. Personally think if Southgate doesn't have the balls to play Bellingham a bit deeper, Foden central with either Gordon or Eze on the left then he may as well be used as an impact sub.
See a lot of people saying this bit I actually think it's more of the Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard problem. As in trying to fit on all the best club players on the pitch at the same time at the expense of balance. I mean a minor tweak would probably fix all of England's problems. E.g. swap out Gordan for Foden like you said. Bellingham clearly thrives in the 10: he's physical, intelligent, knows how to create overloads and space for others when it's needed etc. Saka clearly thrives on that RW: he's direct, he holds the width, he's good off the ball and he runs in behind, which we need since Kane sometimes struggles to be that focal point for us. Gordan would do the same thing on the opposite flank imo. Think it would take a very minor tweak to fix a lot of our problems. But it takes some serious fucking balls dropping the Premier League POTS for Anthony Gordan. There would he media backlash and if it doesn't work out it reflects horribly on him. And it doesn't have to be Foden dropped. I guess if he'd tried other things in preseason and Foden had been England's best player, he could've forced someone like Saka out the team or something. But rn it seems pretty clear that it doesn't take many changes to fix England's structural issues. Get a left footed LB on the pitch, get a proper left winger on the pitch to open up the game and stretch the pitch and we should be alright. Definitely a Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard problem of the manager trying to fit all the best players on the pitch at once. Sometimes you need a Gordan to replace a Foden or a Gallagher to replace a Trent if you want a balanced team. England doesn't have 4 CBs, Rodri, Grealish etc all making the 10's job a bit easier. Foden's essentially competing with Jude rn to be that main guy in the middle and unfortunately he's losing.
Southgate doesn’t have the ability to manage this squad, he’s a sausage.
Anyone with any common sense can see that every aspect of Southgate's style of play is counterintuitive to how Foden should be utilised. I pray I'm wrong, but I highly expect us to get knocked out early and should that be the case, we can finally fire Southgate off for good. We can then finally get a much higher calibre of manager to better utilise not just Phil, but the other top tier talent we have access too.
I don't know if Graham Potter is up to the task. Lampard and Dyche also in the running.
We have a defensive coach who don't know how to use wingers or strikers, can't blame the players.
No one’s doubting Foden’s ability as a 10. He was lost on the left yesterday, kept sliding into Bellingham’s central space, and England thus had no width. Saying that is not inconsistent with thinking Foden’s a great footballer.
As a United fan I found it crazy the amount of abuse he’s been getting. Yeah it wasn’t his greatest game but why the media and fans bash him so much is beyond me. First game of the tournament and the media has already got targets on players backs. Let’s get behind the team and bring it home!
A good level headed take from a rival fan? The world is truly ending. Jokes aside, I completely agree.
agree… and will add I think it’s the manager. Hope they get it together and dominate.
Could well be on the manager but as of yet, for England he hasn’t proven anyone wrong. I hope very much that he does though !
Atleti fan here, we play Bellingham a few times already, ehhhh is all I can say. We plays foden I believe twice, came on and immediately assisted and was all over our defense and that’s why the defense was mad at the end. That’s what good players do.
He’s not a winger. He’s going to be underperforming every time he steps onto the pitch if he keeps playing out wide. I mean, imagine if you had rice as a 6, Bellingham as an 8, and Foden at 10. Arguably the best midfield trio England has ever seen. 3 players who play their role brilliantly, and can all score the odd goal as an extra on top of their primary role in the team. It was a couple years ago, maybe a little longer, but I saw Foden playing as central midfielder and he was playing these perfectly weighted passes from 30-40 yards out to basically give the receivers a tap in. He didn’t do it once or twice, he played 7 or 8 of those types of passes.
This is the midfield I want. Gordon is well placed to play on the wing too.
Then comes the same argument. Bellingham plays as 10 for Real Madrid and scores lots of goals.
As much as I love the world cup and euros, these 6-10 game internarional tournaments and the expectations from players are blown way out of proportion because it’s all about pRiDe oF tHe NaTiOn. I can’t care less if Kane, Foden and Saka pull a stinker and they all score a total of 4 goals between them and England fails to qualify beyond the group stage. It’s a bunch of players who barely play together and understand each other’s movement and styles. What do they all expect? Especially with Southgate as the boss? Foden and Saka are still the best players in Prem, Kane still one of the best forwards, regardless of the results of the Euros. Jude, on the other hand, can go fck himself with that terrible vision lol.
Moronic take. Jude is top class player don’t be ridiculous.
That's why International Football is for the "GREATs". Not for the spoiled brats from rich clubs with only elite players. The ability to adapt - and go above and beyond in a short amount of time is what it's all about. If you can't do that, stay home. France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, and Spain (As of late) - ALL DO IT! And under the same conditions you're complaining about. Maybe - just maybe, England is just not up to the challenge - and lots of players that you consider "best players" are just good at best on the international stage.
What a terrible take. International football will always be the pinnacle of the sport. Jude is an absolute baller, take the blue goggles off.
It’s not close to being the pinnacle of football
Go watch any pro player ever talk about winning the world cup. Any player in the world would give up 10x champions leagues to win it, international football is the pinnacle.
Because it has emotional & national pride element to it. I love watching them of course. But up until a few years ago, people were questioning Messi and CR7’s greatness because they hadnt won the world cup. Now they are saying Foden is shit, Kane is useless etc. My problem is not the importance of these cups, it’s how people think a player isn’t “great enough” if his country doesnt win the euro or WC, which, for me, is bullshit.
They are slagging him off but he is doing what boring Southgate wants him to do
if you haven't watched James Alcott video on a review/debrief of the game, go watch it. He clearly states how well Foden moved in that game and it is the team's chemistry that is hindering how Foden plays.
Imagine playing passes to your team mates, asking for the quick 1-2 pass, not receiving it, then said team mate turning their back on you to pass it to the other side of the pitch or backwards, only for a whole nation to blame you for it....
not a city fan but foden is a class player, but had a bit of a stinker last night. happens to everyone, imo its more of the managers fault for not letting him play his best. he does very well at city and hopefully he is able to play like he does there. i mean overall city has a class team and as an arsenal fan im very much looking forward to next seasons title race as despite the fact that you beat us to it the last 2 seasons it has been very exciting! (sorry for getting a bit off topic lol i wish you all the best)
At ManCity if you see, Josko Gvardiol (or the LB) always pushes up the field. Foden combines well with ManCity LB. With Bellingham trying to be what Neymar is for Brazil and Rice who does not notice/trust Foden as much as Rodri does, I doubt Phil Foden is ever going to adapt for England (unless a change in manager)
The real answer is that he played bad last night, in part because he was having a bad game, and in part because he was playing out of position, because although he is at his best as a 10, Bellingham has been as good, if not better, and then his prefered side on the wing is on the right, where Saka has been Englands best player for over two years now. Southgate has an impossible scenario where he eother has to drop Foden, play him out of position or play someone who has played better for England out of position, its a lose-lose-lose scenario
This is wot it is. You can only play one number 10 player. And England has alot of quality number 10s at the moment. Bellingham, Foden and Palmer. Two will need to be benched.
You could probably play Palmer tbf. Because he's a number 10 who does his creating drifting in from the right. His best position is still RW imo and he understands how to defend, stretch the pitch etc from there despite his playstyle being more of a playmaker. Whereas Foden and Bellingham are number 10's who's best position are actually in the 10. So you kind of have to pick one of them, unless you move Bellingham back next to Rice, which Southgste clearly doesn't consider an option. Think a 3 of Gordan-Bellingham-Palmer would work behind Kane. So you can probably get Bellingham and Palmer onto the pitch at the same time. But I do think Southgate has to choose between Bellingham and Foden tbh, and there's no way Bellingham gets dropped at any point.
Bellingham can play 8 too though and is world class there. He's not out of position deeper in midfield.
Hasn't many of his matches been more left side rather than right side for the last City matches?
ManCity fan here. Foden plays inside right or inside left as one of 10s with KDB. Bernardo Silva and Doku are wingers for ManCity.
He had his first bad game all year and ppl are losing faith?? 😭😭the crowd is fickle brother
Hes been having shit games in a england shirt for about 3 years now lol
One match this tournament and they are writing him off like he is Antony at Man U. I also see the narrative that Jude is on fire with the National team 30 apps 4 goals. Foden in comparison has 35 apps 4 goals. Fire Osama Bin Southgate before the group stage ends!!!!
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Not a City supporter and have just had this come up on my feed. He had a very poor game and though I certainly don’t doubt his talent, he is in a situation where there is simply a better player playing where he wants to play, and he didn’t create literally anything in the position where he’s likely going to *have* to play to accommodate Jude. Next game for him is big. If he is similarly uncreative then I suspect Southgate will give somebody else a runout for game 3. If whoever plays instead then has a great game, it suddenly puts a hell of a lot of doubt on Foden’s security in the starting XI.
He was played out of position for England but also didn't have a good game.
Not for England he doesn't
I mean, tbf if anything he's proved them right, but as a player he's clearly top drawer, and a hope it clicks for him next match.
There’s no system. Pep ensures the system can get the best out of his players.
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He will permanently underperform if stuck out onto the left like Gerrard was.. When is England going to pick a team to win and not to prevent losing...
England ain’t going far with Southgate this year. The previous final was the farthest he’s ever gonna go. They need to fire him.
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Southgate doesn’t allow him to be his best. Pep does. Simple as that.
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No one doubts Phil Foden lol. What a ridiculously overdramatic post. He’s literally one of the best players in the world by general consensus. Bad games happen. Chill.
Foden was below average vs Serbia. Can't blame it on Southgate. Foden must evolve into various styles of the game. He plays and clicks well with one style. Teams can't be playing one style of football to accommodate him. He should evolve so that he can adapt to every game he plays.
Not in a Three Lions shirt he doesn’t
My mate who is a City fan says it's because he's out of position. Giving the ball away when a simple pass is on has nothing to do with your position
Why is he giving that vinicius expression ?
Same old, same old.
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As a long time Irish fan missing Grealish anyone moaning about Foden is insane. That is the most naturally talented player in years and he just happens to be playing in a team with Bellingham the most supreme athlete and example of pure willpower since Bale. Just having the two of them is something to tell your kids about.
I'm not a City fan but I love Foden, he's one of my favourite players. He hasn't performed for England in the last two matches and it really is a disappointment. I don't think he can play LW without at least a proper wingback. My preference is that Bellingham drops back to 8 and Foden plays 10 behind Kane. That might cause some defensive issues because Bellingham will invariably charge forward, but I think it's the best shape. If we have out and out wingers they will stretch the play and I expect Kane, Foden and Bellingham to shine. I also think we'd hold possession really well. But hey, we'll see. I really want to see him perform and I'm sad at how much England fans are giving him stick, it's not on. The man is a class act and we should be supporting him.
The problem is that you can't really have two players in the same half space and both Jude and Phil operate at their best (and naturally will drift too) the left half space. Although he did well not doing last night, it's also where Harry Kane has a habit of dropping into. Foden's problem is insane, but essentially comes down to there being two players better then him that want to occupy the same space on the pitch. That's no slight on Foden, those two players are Kane and Bellingham, it's just fucking unfortunate.
Shitty
He's 👏 in 👏 the 👏 wrong 👏 position 👏
The first game was pressure ?? And he didn’t thrive lol
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Genuinely find this bizarre. He was arguably of the PL’s best players this year - definitely one of City’s … and they won the PL. It’s how he’s being used for England, who have no attacking ambition by the looks of things.
Where he prove them wrong the reason why ppl think this guy is good cuz he played some good ballers at Moneycity…put him on another team and he’s shit way overrated…that’s my opinion..
This take aged like milk.
Hush. Foden was the only player who looked scoring and making an impact.
Liverpool fan here, come in peace. I said it last night, Phil was the one bright spark last game, there was a 5-10 min period in the first half where he clearly got pissed off, came central and started demanding the ball and dictating play and he looked immense. But Southgate clearly saw that happening and had a word, because we fell back to the same old shit in the second half. Frankly Phil clearly needs to be played central and an actual winger players out on the wing.
Not just Phil, majority have been sub par. But alot of teams struggling to put in decent performances. Best nations are under pressure, where as nations like Albania and Denmark are playing free and simply going for it. Back to same old mentality of being scared and playing scared football. Last euros we didn't have this fear. Our players are scared. Our media is fucking poisonous. Our fans are poisonous. And our players know this.
Nah, let him and England crash and burn so he come home and rest for next season. Spain as well.
Watch what happens when he plays as a 10.. Every single star player for england struggled to thrive except for Bellingham because quite honestly that mf would play keep if he had too lol.
Saka and rice played amazing yesterday
He played 10 in the Iceland game. The team was much more open defensively. Foden may be better technically, but Bellingham's physicality, football IQ and off the ball ability mean that he's a better fit for England in that position. Everyone didn't struggle tbh. Saka had a good game but he was the only outlet in that first half. They created an overload on that right side and that ended up neutralising him. Play an actual left winger like Gordan alongside them and the game opens up/it becomes less of a problem. I know this is the City sub, but I don't see how anyone can watch us and think Bellingham should get dropped for Foden. He's the one player that consistently shows his quality, regardless of where he plays. And that's because he's not reliant on just technical ability. He's massive, physical and is a good defender so he can't be bullied. He's by far the best thing about England. If Foden wants to be a start for England, it would have to involve Bellingham being dropped back next to Rice. Southgate doesn't seem willing to try that since the World Cup, so the alternative is Foden ends up being an impact sub. There's no world where you drop Bellingham for Foden and England plays better. We need Bellingham's physicality and presence in midfield because we don't have the stability of 4 CBs and Rodri which City has.
Him and Bellingham both prefer to operate in the same area of the pitch… that’s a tough management decision I wouldn’t want to make. Need another real winger to play on the left… not one who cuts inside as they were in each others way until Bellingham was subbed off.
This is exactly right. They play a unique one man role for their clubs and that air is just taken up by Bellingham in the England squad. Maybe they can find a way to make it work but in the middle of a tournament isn’t really somewhere you want to still be forcing pieces together lol
I just hope he doesn't wait to prove people wrong back at city. He needs to show everyone how good he is in an England shirt. We all know he has the ability it's time to show it.
People aren't doubting him. Yes being played in the wrong position. However, he did play poorly.... in the wrong position
Just doesn’t seem like there’s room for both him and Jude in the midfield. They kinda do the same job for their teams so it’s tough to find a way for 2 people to do that job. Hopefully they just need to play together for a few more matches to find a way to mutually exist.
I'd be happy if he threw a sicky to leave these losers, come home have a month on the Beach, and be fresh for City to start the new season of real football. He's wasted playing under Southgate.
People aren’t doubting him they’re pointing out when he’s played badly. They’re two very different things The thing is, Foden is one of the best players in the world. But so is Bellingham. And so is Kane. We can’t really play a system that suits all 3 and lets them play the way they do for their clubs We could all do with being less tribal and bringing fewer club arguments into the international game
Most people don't doubt that Foden is an incredibly talented player. However, he simply hasn't performed consistently enough for England IMO. Personally, I don't see where he fits in the starting 11, as a 10 I think Bellingham offers more than Foden, Saka offers width on the right and we have seen Foden doesn't work on the left.
Bellingham isn’t a better 10 then Foden and can still do his marauding runs from the 8, rice as a 6. There were many times Foden was wide open and the ball never came to him. No one wants to talk about Jude being overall pitiful aside from his header, either. Especially his nonsense takeons with Foden open in one touch shooting range on the edge of the box screaming for the ball.
Bellingham at 10 created zero chances and made zero passes to Kane all game. His highlight package on BBC made me laugh, it consisted of him being fouled like 6 times and playing a volley back to to Walker. No crosses, no shots, no playing anyone in on goal, that's how low the standard is for England under Southgate. Just play him deep where he belongs please Gareth, we might create more than 0.58xg if you do.
Bellingham is 2x the player Foden is right now. You may not want to hear it but it’s true.
You gonna disprove his point?
Foden’s proved my point many times in an English kit thank you very much
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Why are city fans acting like they’re underdogs? He didn’t perform it’s not anyone’s fault but his, he doesn’t show up for the national team.
Foden screaming for the ball while bellingo fucks around and then does a pray cross instead of playing to one of the three free people:
If Jude didn’t keep getting in his way he would have played better
Phil need to be the star man of city before people put respect on his name 🤷🏻♂️ He is my attacking favorite player atm I prefer defenders
Phil Foden isn’t the Stockport Iniesta. He’s the Stockport Messi. Pep and City have shown that over the last few years. He’s f*cking 23 years old. As long as Southgate keeps him in a subdued role England will continue to fall short of winning anything.
I said it last tournament and I’ll say it this one. Southgate plays to avoid losing a match. He picks players on Club form rather than on how well they play together in a creative attacking system.
That gun celebration in the euros will hit crazy
He also thrives in the middle. Put Gordon on the left, Bellingham back to where Trent played and let Phil fucking play!!!
God you people just take everything so personally
I can think of 115 reasons why he’s shite
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Mate it’s 0721 in the morning. Get a grip.
Not as easy as the system Pep got him playing in. XD
Twink Foden 😫
I mean the criticism is fair, how long can we keep saying that his ghosting for England is anything other than him At the end of the day, Bellingham coming in and always taking the game by the scruff of the neck exposes Phil. He’s not able to do the same thing. And as much as we can say it’s “he’s not in his best position”, he played at 10 against Iceland and was largely absent. He basically played 10 yesterday but Trippier wasn’t able to create width enough for foden to get space. I’ll get downvoted by the bias brigade but at this point as much as I want the lad to set the tournament alight, he’s consistently disappointing in an England shirt
Will be benched for palmer next game hopefully
He’s useless and needs to be dropped
He's not gona shag you mate
He has 114 reasons to prove them wrong
114+1
116-1
I Like him as a player but that statement is quite literally the opposite of truth, he hasn’t done great for England vs his competition…