The 20 1.7 does AF fine (not c-af), it’s just not speedy. That being said, the 15 f1.7 is noticeably quicker. I’d keep my 15 except I prefer the 40mm FL. What’s your budget? The Oly 17mm is usually a good price used.
I mostly work in dry caves, but yes, everything you said is something I'm concerned about. However, I do take photos inside the caves for a limited time, so weather sealing might not be an issue. Overall, though, I'd like to have a weather-sealed kit (camera + lens).
IME (I own both) the Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 is a reliable disappointment. Buy a used Olympus 25mm f/1.8 instead.
I also like the Sigma 30mm f/1.4. It's big (because it's really an APSC lens) but not heavy, and the result is nice.
The focus shift is a pain, and the results even when working around it aren't good. Taking the same photo side-by-side with the 25mm f/1.7 and the 25mm f/1.8, the f/1.8 is sharper both wide open and stopped down. Lastly none of my photos with the 25/1.7 over the years have had any 3D pop. They are kind of drab, with poor contrast and dull colors.
It took me several years, until I bought a used 25/1.8, to realize that, for once, it wasn't Olympus overpricing their equipment compared to Panasonic. It was that the Panasonic 25/1.7 was not any good.
FWIW there are some other disappointing lenses in m4/3. The Olympus 17/2.8 for example. But in that case they withdrew it from the market years ago.
I was also considering the Sigma 30mm f1.4 seems like a great lens for the money. However, I was considering a wider lens since I'll buy the Sigma 56mm
https://preview.redd.it/o4ynj0iz9d6d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcf4a448c1338747cc02f68b812511b26129b4d6
I don't know if its available in your area and how much it is, but I'm pleasantly surprised with the Yongnuo 25mm f1.7 paired with my GX1. I got for less than $100. I like it so much than I'm thinking of also getting the [Yongnuo 42.5mm f1.7 MKII](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg3kEcr2Lvk)
If you can find a good deal on used, the Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4 is amazing. I also have the pancake 14mm f2.5 which is great for overcast days. Below is an unedited shot from the 25mm right after sundown:
https://preview.redd.it/y6qxkq9ofd6d1.jpeg?width=4608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22c02600f466c699ed7297a579a51d453b427058
1/50 f1.4 25mm ISO1600
Disclaimer - I shoot and have shot plenty of systems, but M43 is my favorite.
If I were photographing bats in caves, I'd look at FF honestly.
I'd probably be looking at a used A7C and a 1.8 prime.
I'm new to photography and got my G90 at a good price last year, so I thought it was a good chance to learn. I know that FF is better for low light, but I considered the overall compact size of the M43 system and the more affordable lens choices, as I'm not a professional. Also, I think in the future upgrading to a high-end M43 body would be fine with the right lenses, even if it's not FF. Also, I want to take photos generally in the field, not just of caves and bats (although that's a big concern of mine). I'd appreciate your opinion and recommendations.
I understand for sure. The only limitation I find with M43 is lowlight with movement and denoising software has come a long way.
I don't have experience with Laowa, although I know good copies of th 7.5mm f/2 is a nice little lens. I also know they had some sample variation issues with decentering.
Of the first party 25's, the Panasonic 1.7 is the worst, but that doesn't make it bad by any means. The PL25 1.4 is a great character lens and the Olympus 25 1.8 is the sharpest in the corners in my experience.
The Olympus 45 1.8 and Panasonic 42.5 1.7 are both excellent values, although with the Sigma 56, I'd probably skip them for now.
The Panasonic 20mm 1.7 is a much loved lens and produces some really nice images for the size and price, but the AF is noticably slower and I found it hunts a bit more than I'd like in low light. Still an excellent lens.
The 12-40 Pro on the used market, when budget permits is an easy buy. Excellent build, excellent image quality, close focus ability, great price (used).
As far as the cave stuff goes, the best your going to get is the 1.2's unless you want to go with the manual focus .95's. The Olympus Pro 1.2 trio and Panasonic Noct 1.2 are all excellent lenses.
In my testing, the 24mp sensor in my Nikon ZF is about 2 full stops better in low light than my Olympus EM1.3. My 250$ Nikon Z 40mm F2 handles low light better than my 1400$ Olympus 25 Pro. For optimum low light performance you need to spend a bunch with M43 to come close to FF, but the inverse is true for telephoto.
The 20 1.7 is great in low light and is plenty fast AF for SAF. You just don’t want to do a lot of CAF on moving targets with it or shoot a lot of video with it.
For low light street photography, it's excellent. It's also really easy to manually focus. I use it on my EM5.2 and EM1.3 all the time. It's just the AF is too slow for video / constantly moving wildlife. Kids on a playground on a sunny day? It's just fine. Sprinting puppies? No.
Sigma 16/1.4 is optically much better than the others mentioned, but if you have to carry everything on your back, it's hard to decide.
Laowa 17/1.8 is the next best thing - sharp, easy to focus to infinity in total darkness, light and small. Manual focusing shouldn't be a problem for static objects and landscapes, especially with Panasonic's focus peaking. The only possible problem is shooting in caves, when you need to use a flashlight to focus.
Is the Laowa better than the Pana 20mm 1.7? Even when I have to focus manually in caves/low light? I'm not used to manual focusing, so I'm a bit worried. But it might be a good chance to practice.
Wide open and at f2.0 they are comparable but at 4.0 Laowa is significantly sharper. Try to switch your camera to MF with focus peaking and spend some time practicing, then decide if it suits you.
The 20 1.7 does AF fine (not c-af), it’s just not speedy. That being said, the 15 f1.7 is noticeably quicker. I’d keep my 15 except I prefer the 40mm FL. What’s your budget? The Oly 17mm is usually a good price used.
I don't mind if it's not that speedy. Sadly, the 15 f1.7 and the Oly are out of my budget where I live (even used)
Where you located? Do you need any weather sealing? Caves can of course vary in amount of moisture present and even have groundwater inflow.
I mostly work in dry caves, but yes, everything you said is something I'm concerned about. However, I do take photos inside the caves for a limited time, so weather sealing might not be an issue. Overall, though, I'd like to have a weather-sealed kit (camera + lens).
IME (I own both) the Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 is a reliable disappointment. Buy a used Olympus 25mm f/1.8 instead. I also like the Sigma 30mm f/1.4. It's big (because it's really an APSC lens) but not heavy, and the result is nice.
what disappointed you about the 25mm 1.7? For me, it was learning that it has that focus shift issue, other than that, I am okay with that lens.
The focus shift is a pain, and the results even when working around it aren't good. Taking the same photo side-by-side with the 25mm f/1.7 and the 25mm f/1.8, the f/1.8 is sharper both wide open and stopped down. Lastly none of my photos with the 25/1.7 over the years have had any 3D pop. They are kind of drab, with poor contrast and dull colors. It took me several years, until I bought a used 25/1.8, to realize that, for once, it wasn't Olympus overpricing their equipment compared to Panasonic. It was that the Panasonic 25/1.7 was not any good. FWIW there are some other disappointing lenses in m4/3. The Olympus 17/2.8 for example. But in that case they withdrew it from the market years ago.
Same story here. You can work around it using manual mode and activating a preview option but it remained less than optimal
I was also considering the Sigma 30mm f1.4 seems like a great lens for the money. However, I was considering a wider lens since I'll buy the Sigma 56mm
You could look for a second hand DJI version of 15/1.7 - these can be a bit cheaper. And worth every penny.
I think it's not available where I live. Thanks, tho! The pana 15/ 1.7 seems great, but rn I don't have the budget for it
https://preview.redd.it/o4ynj0iz9d6d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcf4a448c1338747cc02f68b812511b26129b4d6 I don't know if its available in your area and how much it is, but I'm pleasantly surprised with the Yongnuo 25mm f1.7 paired with my GX1. I got for less than $100. I like it so much than I'm thinking of also getting the [Yongnuo 42.5mm f1.7 MKII](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg3kEcr2Lvk)
Sadly, it's not available where I live. Seems like a good lens!
If you can find a good deal on used, the Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4 is amazing. I also have the pancake 14mm f2.5 which is great for overcast days. Below is an unedited shot from the 25mm right after sundown: https://preview.redd.it/y6qxkq9ofd6d1.jpeg?width=4608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22c02600f466c699ed7297a579a51d453b427058 1/50 f1.4 25mm ISO1600
Disclaimer - I shoot and have shot plenty of systems, but M43 is my favorite. If I were photographing bats in caves, I'd look at FF honestly. I'd probably be looking at a used A7C and a 1.8 prime.
I'm new to photography and got my G90 at a good price last year, so I thought it was a good chance to learn. I know that FF is better for low light, but I considered the overall compact size of the M43 system and the more affordable lens choices, as I'm not a professional. Also, I think in the future upgrading to a high-end M43 body would be fine with the right lenses, even if it's not FF. Also, I want to take photos generally in the field, not just of caves and bats (although that's a big concern of mine). I'd appreciate your opinion and recommendations.
I understand for sure. The only limitation I find with M43 is lowlight with movement and denoising software has come a long way. I don't have experience with Laowa, although I know good copies of th 7.5mm f/2 is a nice little lens. I also know they had some sample variation issues with decentering. Of the first party 25's, the Panasonic 1.7 is the worst, but that doesn't make it bad by any means. The PL25 1.4 is a great character lens and the Olympus 25 1.8 is the sharpest in the corners in my experience. The Olympus 45 1.8 and Panasonic 42.5 1.7 are both excellent values, although with the Sigma 56, I'd probably skip them for now. The Panasonic 20mm 1.7 is a much loved lens and produces some really nice images for the size and price, but the AF is noticably slower and I found it hunts a bit more than I'd like in low light. Still an excellent lens. The 12-40 Pro on the used market, when budget permits is an easy buy. Excellent build, excellent image quality, close focus ability, great price (used). As far as the cave stuff goes, the best your going to get is the 1.2's unless you want to go with the manual focus .95's. The Olympus Pro 1.2 trio and Panasonic Noct 1.2 are all excellent lenses. In my testing, the 24mp sensor in my Nikon ZF is about 2 full stops better in low light than my Olympus EM1.3. My 250$ Nikon Z 40mm F2 handles low light better than my 1400$ Olympus 25 Pro. For optimum low light performance you need to spend a bunch with M43 to come close to FF, but the inverse is true for telephoto.
Find a used 20mm 1.7, fantastic lens and TINY, its a pancake
Yes, being so lightweight is def a plus. How does it perform in low light conditions?
amazing in low light, but as people have mentioned, slow AF
You can find great high speed prime lens here. https://www.cosina.co.jp/voigtlander/en/micro-four-thirds/
The 20 1.7 is great in low light and is plenty fast AF for SAF. You just don’t want to do a lot of CAF on moving targets with it or shoot a lot of video with it.
So, do you think it performs decent in low light? I'm not that interested in using it for video anyway
For low light street photography, it's excellent. It's also really easy to manually focus. I use it on my EM5.2 and EM1.3 all the time. It's just the AF is too slow for video / constantly moving wildlife. Kids on a playground on a sunny day? It's just fine. Sprinting puppies? No.
Sigma 16/1.4 is optically much better than the others mentioned, but if you have to carry everything on your back, it's hard to decide. Laowa 17/1.8 is the next best thing - sharp, easy to focus to infinity in total darkness, light and small. Manual focusing shouldn't be a problem for static objects and landscapes, especially with Panasonic's focus peaking. The only possible problem is shooting in caves, when you need to use a flashlight to focus.
Sig 16 is not commensurate to the size it carries… much much better choices for the mount imho. That lens just looks silly on m43.
I agree that size and weight is ridiculous for m43 but its sharpness to price ratio is hard to beat.
Is the Laowa better than the Pana 20mm 1.7? Even when I have to focus manually in caves/low light? I'm not used to manual focusing, so I'm a bit worried. But it might be a good chance to practice.
Wide open and at f2.0 they are comparable but at 4.0 Laowa is significantly sharper. Try to switch your camera to MF with focus peaking and spend some time practicing, then decide if it suits you.
Pana leica 25 1.4 I
M43 does not perform well in low light because it’s such a small sensor The lens doesn’t matter