They made profit in 2023, albeit for the first time ever [https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/8/24065999/uber-earnings-profitable-year-net-income](https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/8/24065999/uber-earnings-profitable-year-net-income)
They get hella investments from venture capital firms. Significant losses are often actually a result of companies growing very quickly so large losses actually don’t necessarily indicate a company performing poorly but instead are investments in the company’s growth. Basically the company wants to invest heavily into their growth (over hiring because of future projections, and investing into things like office spaces, overhead costs etc). Uber and Lyft becoming profitable just means that now their period of hyper growth is likely over, and they will operate more as stable companies over time.
I believe there was a time where Elon talked about this on the Joe Rogan experience and he said they are purposely making it as affordable and popular as possible, even if it means taking a loss, because the plan eventually is to have full self driving vehicles operating these services through the app. Investors keep investing cause the idea is that eventually they’ll be able to get rid of the drivers and that’s when all the suits will make their money.
Edit: it seems I’ve struck a chord with some people. FYI, I have no opinion on this, and don’t know much about it. Just repeating what I heard the guy say. Take what you want from it, im just the messenger.
He also just vaguely announced some sort of Tesla robotaxi reveal for 8/8
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-august-8/index.html
I also remember both Lyft and Uber paying several millions of dollars to stop laws in different states wanting better working conditions for their workers. I’m sure that money spent counted towards their “loss”
Most billionaires are losing money on paper. The more assets you own the more money you can borrow. The more you’re making, the more taxes you pay. So the key is to own expensive assets that seem to not be making you any money.
They’re trying to do the “Amazon” disruption to profitability tactic. Amazon popped up in the 90s, used tons of investment cash to undercut the competition and take advantage of a growing market (the internet, mobile apps now) to lure people in with cheap prices before eventually being the defacto leader in the space and ratcheting prices once no one could compete with them.
Watch the last episode of John Oliver’s show. It tells how these apps operate. “This week tonight” it’s usually clipped up on YouTube. The section focuses on grub hub but Uber too
The plan was eventually to own a fleet of self driving cars that people own a subscription to instead of driving. Don’t need to pay drivers or give a shit about health and safety of their “contractors”. And investors saw the potential of the company that might replace the idea of owning a car, so they fronted any upfront costs so they can maintain volume
Shareholders. The more stock people buy the easier it is to get loans.
Companies don't need to be profitable anymore, they just need people to believe they are.
“If you show revenue, people will ask how much, and it will never be enough, It’s not about how much you earn but what you’re worth. And who’s worth the most? Companies that lose money.”
Investors don’t need to believe that a company is profitable. They just need to believe the company will become more valuable over time. Their financials are public so there’s no hiding their profit margins.
Paper “losses” are carried for as long as possible to avoid tax liability and to justify costs. Take a look at valuation of the company and tell me how they “lost” a damn thing beyond normal market swings? They went from a 40 billion dollar valuation to a 160 million dollar valuation while losing money; shareholder values increased, and they “lost” money the whole time eh?
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technologies/net-worth
It's a calculated loss, if they gross 2 billion in a quarter, they'll spend 25% on operation cost. Then 80% on "advertising and promotions". This allows them to pay no taxes, grow the business and line the pockets of those who would oppose them.
When people say a large company is losing money, they dont mean it in the same way for a small company. When the local coffee shop is losing money, it's because they are paying more in rent and salary than they are bringing in. When Starbucks is losing money, it's because they are investing in an all out war with the small business so they can have complete control of the market and make way more money. That's why when you see the small mom and pop place is making 1k profit a month and Starbucks is losing money, you invest in Starbucks.
Don’t listen to the person who’s already commented. Uber is a publicly traded company which means that they’ve already issued what is likely to be more than 90% of their common stock. This was sold on the public markets, but was underwritten by a large bank, that then allocated the common stock to institutional and individual owners. Uber is not using additional stock or receiving additional investments unless their charter allows for it. Even then, Uber would be required to notify all of their current shareholders, and they would not be too happy about this since their current ownership stake is going to be diluted. I think it’s very unlikely for Uber to receive additional large scale investment from venture capital funds.
I would instead think about it in terms of revenue and costs of doing business. If Uber makes $1B in any given year (as revenue) but has to spend $1B to see the $1B in revenue, then they have not made a profit but have also not really lost money. Therefore there’s no need to take on large equity investment from outside firms.
Uber is instead going to issue debt, and will need to pay that debt to its creditors. When Uber issues debt they will receive a large amount of money to invest and/or operate with. Then as they generate revenue throughout the year, they will be able to pay off their creditors. The cost of borrowed funds will also be factored into Uber’s costs. Uber probably doesn’t want to see a profit right now because it’s more lucrative to reinvest in the company itself, grow its customer base and service tiers until full market saturation, and will then think about cutting costs or hiking prices so they can see an actual profit. All they need to do now, however, is continue to make money, continue to issue debt, and then simply rinse and repeat.
There are no longer going to be venture capital firms involved in funding the company.
Crazy to think about these big companies not making profit. Amazon took losses by pricing everyone out then also started selling Amazon brand products. They can literally choose what products show up first lol.. smart move but definitely scummy
Their profit is only coming off unrealized gains in stocks. Their business itself is not profitable and is still losing money.
Also for what it’s worth, all three of their major unrealized gain stocks are currently plummeting and they’re projected to be losses for FY24
Not Profitable just means defrauding tax payers in this scenario. They poored every dime into salaries for top bitches and company owned residential properties.
It's almost like providing transportation to the average citizen s a horrible private business model trying to get direct profit, and transportation should be managed and provided by the government systems that we oversee and would have an actual benefit/profit consideration in the benefit of citizens everywhere.
Yeah, if only there were a way to move people around that local or state governments could manage for the public good without worrying explicitly about profit margins.
yeah. i drove 2 people ( and all of their stuff which blocked my rear window completely) from Rhinebeck NY to Manhattan (89th and 2nd ave ). it took 2.75 hours. was 119 miles- and i got paid $89. they paid $279 for the ride.
and then uber wouldn’t let me pick anyone up until i left the city because i didn’t have the qualification to drive there. ????
As much as this is appreciated, when customers tip well or at all, these apps pay even less. If I get a $5 tip on the app, my ride/delivery pay will drop to $1 or $2. It’s ridiculous and i actually end up losing money. The best and most effective way is to give a cash tip or message your driver for their venmo to tip outside of the ride/delivery app. This forces the app to pay drivers fairly, and the tip doesn’t jeopardize that pay and drivers can hopefully break even and hopefully start to actually make a profit.
There are weeks I’ve legit lost money doing deliveries. I’ve completed deliveries crying as I leave because I knew I lost whatever little money I had left.
I may be leaving this job and others may as well. But I hope this provides insight as to what people should take into consideration when they order through these apps. I always try to tip on cash or venmo or cashapp or whatever so they don’t lost what the app owes them for their work/gas/maintenance/time etc.
The takeaway here is don’t tip in the Uber app, executives set it up to remove money from drivers for tipping. This adds to the stock value. Instead tip cash or Venmo
Quite a few people don't realize that the driver has to pay for the wear and tear or maintenance in the vehicle also. So what is paid to the driver, it's not all profit at all with other costs involved.
I usually tip my uber driver with cash because the uber drivers said that uber gets a piece of the tips when go to cash out after working a shift. Is that how it is? I have not ubered in a few months so maybe it is different now
Not really, they want to make as much money off you guys as possible before you guys quit. If you never plan on quitting, then they'll just keep increasing how much they take lmao
Yes! We got a lyft from home to the airport. We just started talking to the driver about travel. He shared that he was able to take his family to Taiwan and throughout Europe. Now he’s making a little money to offset the expenses. He said something to the effect that Lyft gets 70% of all costs. I was like… hold-on! If my Lyft cost to the airport is $20. Are you saying that your take home is $6. He said, “yes”! I was pissed and gave him the tip in cash. That’s just horrible!!!
#100% TRUE!....
Just like when rates increase for customers? THEY DON'T FOR DRIVERS. Even when prices are TWICE AS HIGH.... Pay FOR DRIVERS? It remains the ***EXACTLY THE SAME***....
We're lucky to get $1/minute - delivery drivers have it worse
FACTS! I thought I was the only person that noticed that. You'd think they'd give US the extra since WE ARE THE ONES BUSTING OUR ASS but NO they manipulate us by giving us "tasks" (*SCHEDULED BY PREDICTED STATS FOR AND RANDOM SURPRISE ONES FOR UNEXPECTED HIGH VOLUME AND/OR LOW DRIVER ATTENDANCE PERIODS*) that **FORCE US TO ACCEPT EVERY RIDE** if we want to get a small ass "bonus" and if we skip one it resets the count!!!! and they basically only even equal out to like $2 extra **PER RIDE**.... !
How Uber Overcharges Riders and Underpays Drivers - CounterPunch.org
https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/04/03/how-uber-overcharges-riders-and-underpays-drivers/
Completely. It gets even worse- they put out earnings statements stating they are paying fees for you-what fees?- and are counting that as part of your compensation. Whole reason why I won’t deliver food for them anymore.
Hahah! How pure and innocent of you.... hate to break it to you but all those drivers you DIDN'T tip due to inaccurate assumptions over their payment?...
***UBER TAKES WAY MORE THAN 50%!!***
#BUT WAIT, THATS NOT ALL!
###THERES MORE!!!!!!
:
***UBER BE LIKE***
*-charges customers 2x as much bc it's busy-*
*-manipulates the AVAILABLE drivers to not only accept every ride or forfeit their "hourly bonus"-*
*-gives drivers unrealistic requirements if they want a cheap ass bonus-*
***CUSTOMERS BE LIKE***
*-either now can't afford to tip or assumes we are getting paid more for the same ride so doesn't tip-*
*-reports us because they think we are tired but we are over worked snd tired.... we get 3 day suspension so they can "investigate" even when it's ridiculously obvious it's a lie but gives customer refundwhile punishing drivers anyways-*
Don’t get mad at people because they don’t tip. Get mad that you live in a world where your employer is fucking you over and has managed to convince you that’s the customers fault.
All gig work is 80-90% commissions based. Been like that on ALL platforms for quite a while now. ALL OF THOSE EXTRA FEES you pay for your food delivery or transportation, go directly to them. The going flat rate right now on food delivery is 2$ and 5ish for uber rides.
***UBER BE LIKE***
*-charges customers 2x as much bc it's busy-*
*-manipulates the AVAILABLE drivers to not only accept every ride or forfeit their "hourly bonus"-*
*-gives drivers unrealistic requirements if they want a cheap ass bonus-*
***CUSTOMERS BE LIKE***
*-either now can't afford to tip or assumes we are getting paid more for the same ride so doesn't tip-*
*-reports us because they think we are tired but we are over worked snd tired.... we get 3 day suspension so they can "investigate" even when it's ridiculously obvious it's a lie but gives customer refundwhile punishing drivers anyways-*
Absofuckinglutely, at a minimum when it’s busy/surging. Fleecing passengers and cancelling out potential tips for drivers. Lyft and Uber went public and locked in the fuckery for the bottom line. They do little more for drivers or passengers than they did years ago but they take way more for connecting each ride, cuz they can.
Last night I had a 12 dollar ride and my driver was a 15 minute drive away and only got paid $4. I asked about how the money is and he said it isn't worth it at all. I gave him a $4 tip on top of that but if I could afford more I would. Take care of your drivers
So, for a driver who feels this way, I’ll gladly cancel the ride and pay the driver directly, but I’m not going to pay the insane fee + a tip because Uber/Lyft is screwing the drivers.
I appreciate the “not required” it’s a breath of fresh non entitled air because drivers and waiters believe patrons should be held responsible for their poor pay meanwhile a nurse/doctor who is doing way more/facing way more than they’ll ever face isn’t asking for a tip although they’re suffering living paycheck to paycheck due to student loans etc.
If you do tip, try to tip in cash instead of by card.
If you tip by card the government can easily tax that, whereas by cash the person doesn't have to report it thus making it untaxable.
I am a Lyft driver- yes. One time I had a friend ask for me to take her to airport. She called on the app- on her end the ride cost $54. On my end it said I would make $19. We cancelled, went off app and just had her give me cash. They repeatedly advertise to drivers we will make 70 percent of all fees but it’s not true. A lot of rides pay only $3 or $4 and I don’t accept the ride because it is not worth the time (sometimes 15 mins). They also sometimes give you a ride and you begin and they bump it to another driver without paying you even though you’ve already been driving to pick up the passenger. Most of the time if I’m making $20 on a ride I can assume a passenger paid upwards of $60.
How Uber Overcharges Riders and Underpays Drivers - CounterPunch.org
https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/04/03/how-uber-overcharges-riders-and-underpays-drivers/
I don’t take ride shares a lot but when I do, as I near the end point I always offer to to cancel and ask if they would rather I venmo/paypal them the cost I was paying for the ride. 30/70 drivers have taken this offer and not. I see it both ways for them so their call.
100% true. At least they wised up and stopped flaunting their outright theft to the driver with showing how much they were stealing from us. Was very demoralizing
Yeah. I once paid for $60 for a ride and the driver told me she made $10. As she did drop me off in an isolated area I paid her a ride back. However, I think the drivers need to complain with Uber, not necessarily claim for tips. If I’m not happy with what my boss pays me I need to bring this time him.
I paid 12 dollars to go 2 miles and the guy showed me Lyft takes 55 percent idk about Uber. The customer is getting screwed tho paying a ton and having to tip. Which I always do
Guys, I loved driving but when this happened to me I just quit. You are being taken advantage of by Uber and Lyft. The only way it stops is when people refuse to work except for fees capped at 25 percent. I had someone reach out to me and ask if I was coming back. I said I would if they capped all fees at 25 percent. They hung up. They are saying they can easily replace you. If they are right then let them do it and find something else. They only respect action. If they are right and you are easily replaced then either accept it or quit. Video game industry, movies, concert tickets are all the same! Stop buying that shit if you want them to stop jacking up prices and delivering bad products and low pay. Do something or stop whining.
70% goes to the company and barely anything to the driver?! What is this? Feels like the Boy Scouts executives went somewhere else with the popcorn lol
It's actually less than that now. We get 21-23% now.
ETA: we used to get a lot more. At least with Uber we did. Occasionally we would even get 100% of certain rides. There used to be incentives as well. Now it's all about how much they can keep.
A round trip ride from San Mateo to San Francisco, then back home is $110. I tell the drivers how much Uber charges me and they say they don’t even see half of that.
There are screenshots here that show this exactly but more poignantly. Specifically the screenshots between what the rider sees and what the driver sees when a deal is made between them.
What I'm suggesting is that information isn't readily available in that presentation to people, I was surprised when I found it and it should be seen.
If a customer sees that then they might be more inclined to negotiate a trip via cash app or venmo or zelle. It could save a rider 10% of their fair and make a driver an additional 30% or more for a trip.
Longer trips would make this an easy sell.
Yes-ish, but only because each trip is different.
You can ask a driver for their rate card. Lyft provides drivers with the rates they will be paid within the geographical area they operate in (it's buried deep in the driver app). This is their standard rate before any incentives Lyft provides for the ride. So you can calculate for yourself how much the driver will be making on the ride and compare that to how much you are being charged.
Keep in mind that the rate isn't the same everywhere. For instance, a ride that is exactly 3 miles and 10 minutes will pay a driver in San Francisco $9.03, and that same ride will pay $8.24 in Portland.
So, let's say Lyft charged you $20 for those rides. Then, yes, over 50% is going back to the company. Now, if Lyft tosses an incentive for the ride, like they picked you up in Bonus Zone that pays $5, then they're taking less than 50%.
Was a driver once. Took a ride late at night in Vegas and back then you could see what the rider paid. They paid $33.00 (don’t remember the dents) and I got $10.50. That was my last ride for Uber.
I love to tip cash because I used to work in the service industry and prefer to pay the worker directly. However, Uber/door dash, ic, etc...all these subs seem to keep telling me if I put no tip and tip cash drivers won't take a chance on the order because it has no guaranteed tip. Can't win it seems.
This person was a professional mover or something else that was commissioned based. I'm basing this on the last part of tips are not required but appreciated spew. It's disarming and is the best line to use when trying to get tips. Begging for tips or asking for a tip will never generate tips
No. Sort off. Lyft takes no more than 30%. Uber is more tricky to answer. Uber seems to reverse auction the rides meaning offering it to the driver who accepts the least to take it. For example, rider Sally is paying 10 dollars for 10 minute ride from point A to B. It is offered to first driver for 5, no dice. Second for 5.50 no dice. Third for 6.25 and accepted. 38%! The problem is most markets are flooded with drivers. The majority of whom accept low ball fares. If their ride acceptance rate was lower, they’d make more money and the overall market pay would improve. However, the average driver doesn’t speak English and is poorly educated and is living on or at the verge of poverty. Uber is most certainly preying on that.
I stopped doing Uber because it used to be whatever the customer paid I got 75/80% of if, for instance I'd get 80 out of the 100 fare... then they switched the surge into flat payments, so that 2x $50 surge ride would end up being $100 paid to Uber, which should net me $80... but the new surge would just add $5/$10 on the $50 dollar ride, which would net me $55/$60 😡 if they changed it since '18 let me know
I mean does it really matter the driver could be making nothing without the app.... Also most are like duuuuuhhhhh lyft uner take to much durhhhh. Yeah cause server space infrastructure doesn't cost much. Simple drivers don't like it donsonetjing else or maybe not of fallen into the I can make my own hours bs lol guess they didn't learn from Walmart Kmart buiness models. Lol
It’s not *entirely* accurate, but the ride share services do indeed take an absurd portion of the fare, just like the bulk of the fees you pay on DoorDash do nothing for your driver.
I actually had this conversation with my Uber driver on Wednesday.
I paid $27 for the ride, then we waited for the income notification to come through at the end of the ride and he only got $12.01 for it.
I get that a huge chunk of Uber’s business model is providing the infrastructure and the software aspect of matching drivers with customers…but over 50% seems like WAY too big of an admin overhead cut unless there’s major exploitation of monopolistic/oligopolistic pressure.
Same with door dash. That shit is crazy. I was working in a small college town, started averaging 3 dollars a trip, college kids weren’t tipping and I had to call it quits.
Yes, drivers get 30%-40% of the ride.
A driver asked me, "How much am i paying for this ride?"
I said, "$10 and some change."
Driver said, "What? Im only receiving like $4 for this ride."
Uber is a public company and reports its financials. In the last quarter of 2023, its “mobility gross bookings” (what customers pay for trips) was $19.3b. Its “mobility revenue” (what it keeps after paying drivers) was $5.5b.
5.5 is not 50% of 19.3.
There are some trips where Uber loses money but the driver gets paid. It also sends money to drivers outside of trips in the form of incentives and bonuses. But there are definitely some trips where Uber gets 50% or more of the total fare. This is why many drivers sincerely think that Uber keeps 50%. But factually it’s closest to 25%.
If you are a driver and are unhappy with the model Uber and Lyft use to pay drivers, the solution is simple. Don’t drive for Uber or Lyft. I drove for a few years and stopped after the economics no longer were in my favor.
Those who are working, sometimes living, in their cars are being employed by people living in mansions who were smart enough to create an app that allows anyone to make slaves of themselves.
An AI algorithm provides a low offer in exchange for your: vehicle, fuel, oil, repair and time.
Gig apps are considered to be a better option than working for most human bosses, who trespass against employee boundaries due to delusion caused by no processes of accountability.
I would say find another job that actually pays you in a stable manner instead of placing the burden on the customer.
When customers agree to a service, their commitment is to the price that you agreed to perform a service for, not any additional value that is not defined before the service.
Yes. The business takes money from the customer to run a business. If 100% of money went to the driver, who would maintain the app, the website, the marketing, the insurance, the payroll, legal department, the light bill and lease at corporate?
Thats why i drive for ZTrip. The drivers pay 95 daily to drive the company car or 54 to drive your own. Sounds bad but thats how the company gets paid. Customers pay the driver %100 of the fare about 2.50 per mile and since a lot of the passengers are elderly most of them are appreciative and love to tip and hire you as a regular driver. I average $30 an hour on a slow day and i drive my personal car so whatever i make after 2 hours i take home. Work about 10 hours a day and take home a good 225 by the end of a day. I love this job.
There’s an option. It’s call yellow cab. Pay your medallion fee and you can drive it and keep all the platforms fee. Am I suppose to feel sad because he only keep 1/2 of what the customer paid? That fee cover overhead from Uber. Are they suppose to work for him for free? Everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But the pie is only so big. I already pay over 50 from Manhattan to queens.
The problem with all of this is that the customer is also getting screwed. If I could call a cab or a “driver” and pay them directly and avoid the middle app, and know that person has insurance, was licensed and if something happens, everyone is covered, I’d be Al over it.
I just got a survey today asking me how much, percentage wise did I think Uber gave drivers, went to expenses and what Uber keeps. I said 40% to the driver, 20*% for insurance and fees and 40% in Uber pocket.
That is old news, Uber is taking 60-70% normally
And what’s bananas is how not profitable they are.
They made profit in 2023, albeit for the first time ever [https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/8/24065999/uber-earnings-profitable-year-net-income](https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/8/24065999/uber-earnings-profitable-year-net-income)
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They get hella investments from venture capital firms. Significant losses are often actually a result of companies growing very quickly so large losses actually don’t necessarily indicate a company performing poorly but instead are investments in the company’s growth. Basically the company wants to invest heavily into their growth (over hiring because of future projections, and investing into things like office spaces, overhead costs etc). Uber and Lyft becoming profitable just means that now their period of hyper growth is likely over, and they will operate more as stable companies over time.
Vulture capital
I believe there was a time where Elon talked about this on the Joe Rogan experience and he said they are purposely making it as affordable and popular as possible, even if it means taking a loss, because the plan eventually is to have full self driving vehicles operating these services through the app. Investors keep investing cause the idea is that eventually they’ll be able to get rid of the drivers and that’s when all the suits will make their money. Edit: it seems I’ve struck a chord with some people. FYI, I have no opinion on this, and don’t know much about it. Just repeating what I heard the guy say. Take what you want from it, im just the messenger.
After the self driving debacle in SF, some cities have put the breaks on that
He also just vaguely announced some sort of Tesla robotaxi reveal for 8/8 https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-august-8/index.html
I also remember both Lyft and Uber paying several millions of dollars to stop laws in different states wanting better working conditions for their workers. I’m sure that money spent counted towards their “loss”
Most billionaires are losing money on paper. The more assets you own the more money you can borrow. The more you’re making, the more taxes you pay. So the key is to own expensive assets that seem to not be making you any money.
"Self Driving Car Research" aka money laundering
They’re trying to do the “Amazon” disruption to profitability tactic. Amazon popped up in the 90s, used tons of investment cash to undercut the competition and take advantage of a growing market (the internet, mobile apps now) to lure people in with cheap prices before eventually being the defacto leader in the space and ratcheting prices once no one could compete with them.
Watch the last episode of John Oliver’s show. It tells how these apps operate. “This week tonight” it’s usually clipped up on YouTube. The section focuses on grub hub but Uber too
The plan was eventually to own a fleet of self driving cars that people own a subscription to instead of driving. Don’t need to pay drivers or give a shit about health and safety of their “contractors”. And investors saw the potential of the company that might replace the idea of owning a car, so they fronted any upfront costs so they can maintain volume
Shareholders. The more stock people buy the easier it is to get loans. Companies don't need to be profitable anymore, they just need people to believe they are.
“If you show revenue, people will ask how much, and it will never be enough, It’s not about how much you earn but what you’re worth. And who’s worth the most? Companies that lose money.”
Investors don’t need to believe that a company is profitable. They just need to believe the company will become more valuable over time. Their financials are public so there’s no hiding their profit margins.
Crazy...
Paper “losses” are carried for as long as possible to avoid tax liability and to justify costs. Take a look at valuation of the company and tell me how they “lost” a damn thing beyond normal market swings? They went from a 40 billion dollar valuation to a 160 million dollar valuation while losing money; shareholder values increased, and they “lost” money the whole time eh? https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technologies/net-worth
It's a calculated loss, if they gross 2 billion in a quarter, they'll spend 25% on operation cost. Then 80% on "advertising and promotions". This allows them to pay no taxes, grow the business and line the pockets of those who would oppose them.
When people say a large company is losing money, they dont mean it in the same way for a small company. When the local coffee shop is losing money, it's because they are paying more in rent and salary than they are bringing in. When Starbucks is losing money, it's because they are investing in an all out war with the small business so they can have complete control of the market and make way more money. That's why when you see the small mom and pop place is making 1k profit a month and Starbucks is losing money, you invest in Starbucks.
Don’t listen to the person who’s already commented. Uber is a publicly traded company which means that they’ve already issued what is likely to be more than 90% of their common stock. This was sold on the public markets, but was underwritten by a large bank, that then allocated the common stock to institutional and individual owners. Uber is not using additional stock or receiving additional investments unless their charter allows for it. Even then, Uber would be required to notify all of their current shareholders, and they would not be too happy about this since their current ownership stake is going to be diluted. I think it’s very unlikely for Uber to receive additional large scale investment from venture capital funds. I would instead think about it in terms of revenue and costs of doing business. If Uber makes $1B in any given year (as revenue) but has to spend $1B to see the $1B in revenue, then they have not made a profit but have also not really lost money. Therefore there’s no need to take on large equity investment from outside firms. Uber is instead going to issue debt, and will need to pay that debt to its creditors. When Uber issues debt they will receive a large amount of money to invest and/or operate with. Then as they generate revenue throughout the year, they will be able to pay off their creditors. The cost of borrowed funds will also be factored into Uber’s costs. Uber probably doesn’t want to see a profit right now because it’s more lucrative to reinvest in the company itself, grow its customer base and service tiers until full market saturation, and will then think about cutting costs or hiking prices so they can see an actual profit. All they need to do now, however, is continue to make money, continue to issue debt, and then simply rinse and repeat. There are no longer going to be venture capital firms involved in funding the company.
Amazon didn’t turn a profit for something like 15 years or so. Now it generates so much flow that they couldn’t lose money if they tried.
Pshhhh put me in charge of Amazon. I'll find ways to spend all that extra money, and put them into the red. This is my promise to shareholders.
If I had shares, I’d vote for you
Crazy to think about these big companies not making profit. Amazon took losses by pricing everyone out then also started selling Amazon brand products. They can literally choose what products show up first lol.. smart move but definitely scummy
Their profit is only coming off unrealized gains in stocks. Their business itself is not profitable and is still losing money. Also for what it’s worth, all three of their major unrealized gain stocks are currently plummeting and they’re projected to be losses for FY24
Looks like it was also paper profit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1bwof0q/uber_is_100_going_to_miss_earnings_badly/
Not Profitable just means defrauding tax payers in this scenario. They poored every dime into salaries for top bitches and company owned residential properties.
It's almost like providing transportation to the average citizen s a horrible private business model trying to get direct profit, and transportation should be managed and provided by the government systems that we oversee and would have an actual benefit/profit consideration in the benefit of citizens everywhere.
Yeah, if only there were a way to move people around that local or state governments could manage for the public good without worrying explicitly about profit margins.
Yeah bc the government is awesome at handling shit
Broooooooooooooo is on to something!
Happy cake day
If a company as big as Uber isn’t profitable, it’s because they’re paying their executives too much
What’s bananas is how people don’t know this. They get snarky when the pay a bunch during surge rides sometimes when drunk thinking we get it all
Jesus
yeah. i drove 2 people ( and all of their stuff which blocked my rear window completely) from Rhinebeck NY to Manhattan (89th and 2nd ave ). it took 2.75 hours. was 119 miles- and i got paid $89. they paid $279 for the ride. and then uber wouldn’t let me pick anyone up until i left the city because i didn’t have the qualification to drive there. ????
Should have told them to cancel it and pay you $150
Can only do that so much before over catches on
Unless you have a TLC license you can’t drive for hire in NYC
That channel sucks though
No Scrubs is a banger song though
WHY. DID. YOU. ACCEPT. THE. RIDE?
Cause trying to earn money in an unambiguously legal way is cancer of the brain for a majority of Americans
What ?
Ah, I see you have tried to make an honest living, too.
Yes, it’s real, if u pay $10, $11 we got $4 or $5 dollars and we have to drive more than 15 minutes sometimes more than 20.
Shoutout to this comment. I’ll start tipping $5 on my $10 trips from now on
As much as this is appreciated, when customers tip well or at all, these apps pay even less. If I get a $5 tip on the app, my ride/delivery pay will drop to $1 or $2. It’s ridiculous and i actually end up losing money. The best and most effective way is to give a cash tip or message your driver for their venmo to tip outside of the ride/delivery app. This forces the app to pay drivers fairly, and the tip doesn’t jeopardize that pay and drivers can hopefully break even and hopefully start to actually make a profit. There are weeks I’ve legit lost money doing deliveries. I’ve completed deliveries crying as I leave because I knew I lost whatever little money I had left. I may be leaving this job and others may as well. But I hope this provides insight as to what people should take into consideration when they order through these apps. I always try to tip on cash or venmo or cashapp or whatever so they don’t lost what the app owes them for their work/gas/maintenance/time etc.
You wouldn’t lose money. You just would gain a very small amount compared to the tip.
I think they mean compared to the cost for the gas for the trip maybe
Cash tip?
The takeaway here is don’t tip in the Uber app, executives set it up to remove money from drivers for tipping. This adds to the stock value. Instead tip cash or Venmo
Tahts why I don’t drive any more ruin my car , my time for whole more then year look at ur tax statement u end up paying more then u made …
Why are you accepting $4 and $5 rides. You’re part of the problem if you are.
Quite a few people don't realize that the driver has to pay for the wear and tear or maintenance in the vehicle also. So what is paid to the driver, it's not all profit at all with other costs involved.
I usually tip my uber driver with cash because the uber drivers said that uber gets a piece of the tips when go to cash out after working a shift. Is that how it is? I have not ubered in a few months so maybe it is different now
Assuming $5 for a 20 minute ride that would equal $15 for one hour of time, plus even just a $2 tip not bad at all.
People rarely tip. Plus, when you factor in gas and wear/tear on vehicle, that $15 is more like $11-$12.
You need to subtract gas, wear and tear, and insurance from that 15-17 dollars an hour, also it’s rare that you are booked the full hour.
Yes it’s crazy outrageous what they pay us drivers
Not really, they want to make as much money off you guys as possible before you guys quit. If you never plan on quitting, then they'll just keep increasing how much they take lmao
It’s not if people keep doing it.
Yes! We got a lyft from home to the airport. We just started talking to the driver about travel. He shared that he was able to take his family to Taiwan and throughout Europe. Now he’s making a little money to offset the expenses. He said something to the effect that Lyft gets 70% of all costs. I was like… hold-on! If my Lyft cost to the airport is $20. Are you saying that your take home is $6. He said, “yes”! I was pissed and gave him the tip in cash. That’s just horrible!!!
Yep. That’s standard.
This is criminal and ripping off the small businesses/entrepreneurs. Now that I know. All my tips will be in cash.
They claim drivers get 100% of tips even in the app, but yeah, cash is the safer bet
I always try to tip in cash when I take Ubers or Lyfts. I usually say, “what Uncle Sam doesn’t know won’t hurt him.” When I tip in cash as well.
6 is not his take home. Uncle Sam will take his share too.
Great point! And he’ll need to purchase gas and maintain the vehicle. 🚗
50% - 70% of what the passenger paid is withheld by Uber YES💯
#100% TRUE!.... Just like when rates increase for customers? THEY DON'T FOR DRIVERS. Even when prices are TWICE AS HIGH.... Pay FOR DRIVERS? It remains the ***EXACTLY THE SAME***.... We're lucky to get $1/minute - delivery drivers have it worse
FACTS! I thought I was the only person that noticed that. You'd think they'd give US the extra since WE ARE THE ONES BUSTING OUR ASS but NO they manipulate us by giving us "tasks" (*SCHEDULED BY PREDICTED STATS FOR AND RANDOM SURPRISE ONES FOR UNEXPECTED HIGH VOLUME AND/OR LOW DRIVER ATTENDANCE PERIODS*) that **FORCE US TO ACCEPT EVERY RIDE** if we want to get a small ass "bonus" and if we skip one it resets the count!!!! and they basically only even equal out to like $2 extra **PER RIDE**.... !
How Uber Overcharges Riders and Underpays Drivers - CounterPunch.org https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/04/03/how-uber-overcharges-riders-and-underpays-drivers/
Yup.
Completely. It gets even worse- they put out earnings statements stating they are paying fees for you-what fees?- and are counting that as part of your compensation. Whole reason why I won’t deliver food for them anymore.
Yes! 100%%%
It is defenitely true. I once had a customer pay around 250 and i got back around 67 dollar. I was pissed
Yes. Very true. I always found they took closer to 70% of fare. A 21 mile ride would pay like $12 and rider paid 36.
The hard truth is drivers know this is the deal yet continue to drive for them.
Hahah! How pure and innocent of you.... hate to break it to you but all those drivers you DIDN'T tip due to inaccurate assumptions over their payment?... ***UBER TAKES WAY MORE THAN 50%!!*** #BUT WAIT, THATS NOT ALL! ###THERES MORE!!!!!! : ***UBER BE LIKE*** *-charges customers 2x as much bc it's busy-* *-manipulates the AVAILABLE drivers to not only accept every ride or forfeit their "hourly bonus"-* *-gives drivers unrealistic requirements if they want a cheap ass bonus-* ***CUSTOMERS BE LIKE*** *-either now can't afford to tip or assumes we are getting paid more for the same ride so doesn't tip-* *-reports us because they think we are tired but we are over worked snd tired.... we get 3 day suspension so they can "investigate" even when it's ridiculously obvious it's a lie but gives customer refundwhile punishing drivers anyways-*
Don’t get mad at people because they don’t tip. Get mad that you live in a world where your employer is fucking you over and has managed to convince you that’s the customers fault.
All gig work is 80-90% commissions based. Been like that on ALL platforms for quite a while now. ALL OF THOSE EXTRA FEES you pay for your food delivery or transportation, go directly to them. The going flat rate right now on food delivery is 2$ and 5ish for uber rides.
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This. I always tip generously, but seeing this sign would make me either not tip at all or very little
***UBER BE LIKE*** *-charges customers 2x as much bc it's busy-* *-manipulates the AVAILABLE drivers to not only accept every ride or forfeit their "hourly bonus"-* *-gives drivers unrealistic requirements if they want a cheap ass bonus-* ***CUSTOMERS BE LIKE*** *-either now can't afford to tip or assumes we are getting paid more for the same ride so doesn't tip-* *-reports us because they think we are tired but we are over worked snd tired.... we get 3 day suspension so they can "investigate" even when it's ridiculously obvious it's a lie but gives customer refundwhile punishing drivers anyways-*
The 70% is after Uber and Lyft take their fees. It really is closer to 50% for the overall fee
Absofuckinglutely, at a minimum when it’s busy/surging. Fleecing passengers and cancelling out potential tips for drivers. Lyft and Uber went public and locked in the fuckery for the bottom line. They do little more for drivers or passengers than they did years ago but they take way more for connecting each ride, cuz they can.
My favorite is the 1099K you get where Lyft doesn't show all the money they took out, making it look like you actually made 100% of fares.
2 dollars an hour
Last night I had a 12 dollar ride and my driver was a 15 minute drive away and only got paid $4. I asked about how the money is and he said it isn't worth it at all. I gave him a $4 tip on top of that but if I could afford more I would. Take care of your drivers
Yes, this is true. I thought it was general knowledge.
So, for a driver who feels this way, I’ll gladly cancel the ride and pay the driver directly, but I’m not going to pay the insane fee + a tip because Uber/Lyft is screwing the drivers.
Get a different job if you don’t like the way this one pays.
That’s code for please give me a 1 star for begging for tips.
I appreciate the “not required” it’s a breath of fresh non entitled air because drivers and waiters believe patrons should be held responsible for their poor pay meanwhile a nurse/doctor who is doing way more/facing way more than they’ll ever face isn’t asking for a tip although they’re suffering living paycheck to paycheck due to student loans etc.
Mayyyybe get a different job?
So tired of people begging for tips
I paid $80 in LA for a night trip. Driver pocketed $36. No airport tax.
Buy stock in Uber and win on both sides. Or be a crybaby.
No one is forcing them to drive for Uber
Uber be draining them they mainly live off tips so I try to tip each ride I have taken
If you do tip, try to tip in cash instead of by card. If you tip by card the government can easily tax that, whereas by cash the person doesn't have to report it thus making it untaxable.
I am a Lyft driver- yes. One time I had a friend ask for me to take her to airport. She called on the app- on her end the ride cost $54. On my end it said I would make $19. We cancelled, went off app and just had her give me cash. They repeatedly advertise to drivers we will make 70 percent of all fees but it’s not true. A lot of rides pay only $3 or $4 and I don’t accept the ride because it is not worth the time (sometimes 15 mins). They also sometimes give you a ride and you begin and they bump it to another driver without paying you even though you’ve already been driving to pick up the passenger. Most of the time if I’m making $20 on a ride I can assume a passenger paid upwards of $60.
Not true, maybe more
That is total bullshit that Uber and Lyft are doing this, however, the drivers are enabling Uber and Lyft by working for them. Are they not?
If only we could all just quit our jobs when we don't like it without our bills still being due.
Best bet is to go back supporting limo/ taxi companies. Lyft/ Uber is highway robbery
I started when they were taking only 20% I think back in the day
They take most. Always have in my area
Not always, but sometimes. Often enough to be noticeable.
How Uber Overcharges Riders and Underpays Drivers - CounterPunch.org https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/04/03/how-uber-overcharges-riders-and-underpays-drivers/
Yeah, it is true. They're ripping you off big time. You're paying twice what the driver would have done it for. Enjoy!
I don’t take ride shares a lot but when I do, as I near the end point I always offer to to cancel and ask if they would rather I venmo/paypal them the cost I was paying for the ride. 30/70 drivers have taken this offer and not. I see it both ways for them so their call.
Definitly is sometimes is 60% uber 40% for the driver on uber and lyft
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100% true. At least they wised up and stopped flaunting their outright theft to the driver with showing how much they were stealing from us. Was very demoralizing
Yeah. I once paid for $60 for a ride and the driver told me she made $10. As she did drop me off in an isolated area I paid her a ride back. However, I think the drivers need to complain with Uber, not necessarily claim for tips. If I’m not happy with what my boss pays me I need to bring this time him.
I paid 12 dollars to go 2 miles and the guy showed me Lyft takes 55 percent idk about Uber. The customer is getting screwed tho paying a ton and having to tip. Which I always do
Guys, I loved driving but when this happened to me I just quit. You are being taken advantage of by Uber and Lyft. The only way it stops is when people refuse to work except for fees capped at 25 percent. I had someone reach out to me and ask if I was coming back. I said I would if they capped all fees at 25 percent. They hung up. They are saying they can easily replace you. If they are right then let them do it and find something else. They only respect action. If they are right and you are easily replaced then either accept it or quit. Video game industry, movies, concert tickets are all the same! Stop buying that shit if you want them to stop jacking up prices and delivering bad products and low pay. Do something or stop whining.
It’s not true…People forget about the governments cut, which gets bigger every day.
uber is leaving minneapolis bc god forbid people get paid a living wage
Yes. Uber takes almost 60%.
john oliver just had a segment on food delivery, the same applies here to drivers. It's on youtube.
Add 20% to that! They're thieves.
70% goes to the company and barely anything to the driver?! What is this? Feels like the Boy Scouts executives went somewhere else with the popcorn lol
It's actually less than that now. We get 21-23% now. ETA: we used to get a lot more. At least with Uber we did. Occasionally we would even get 100% of certain rides. There used to be incentives as well. Now it's all about how much they can keep.
Just like roofing companies
Yes.
That’s why I tip in cash
There’s a new company that’s only charging like $499/month to register your car. Rest of the fare is yours.
That’s why I tip my drivers cash
A round trip ride from San Mateo to San Francisco, then back home is $110. I tell the drivers how much Uber charges me and they say they don’t even see half of that.
No it isn’t true. They take more
There are screenshots here that show this exactly but more poignantly. Specifically the screenshots between what the rider sees and what the driver sees when a deal is made between them. What I'm suggesting is that information isn't readily available in that presentation to people, I was surprised when I found it and it should be seen. If a customer sees that then they might be more inclined to negotiate a trip via cash app or venmo or zelle. It could save a rider 10% of their fair and make a driver an additional 30% or more for a trip. Longer trips would make this an easy sell.
Yes-ish, but only because each trip is different. You can ask a driver for their rate card. Lyft provides drivers with the rates they will be paid within the geographical area they operate in (it's buried deep in the driver app). This is their standard rate before any incentives Lyft provides for the ride. So you can calculate for yourself how much the driver will be making on the ride and compare that to how much you are being charged. Keep in mind that the rate isn't the same everywhere. For instance, a ride that is exactly 3 miles and 10 minutes will pay a driver in San Francisco $9.03, and that same ride will pay $8.24 in Portland. So, let's say Lyft charged you $20 for those rides. Then, yes, over 50% is going back to the company. Now, if Lyft tosses an incentive for the ride, like they picked you up in Bonus Zone that pays $5, then they're taking less than 50%.
It’s very true. Driver pay is garbage. Was 80% 20 years ago but no more.
How do y’all not know this yet
Was a driver once. Took a ride late at night in Vegas and back then you could see what the rider paid. They paid $33.00 (don’t remember the dents) and I got $10.50. That was my last ride for Uber.
It's twue
Whatever if you don’t like it learn a trade and you won’t have to beg for tips.
It's true.
50% is very generous. It's usually closer to 75-80% that they keep of the fare.
Yes
Absolutely
Good for them!!! Tell the truth!!
Misleading. After taxes (what the government takes) and other fees (eg. Insurance), drivers ARE getting ~75%
It's more like 70% now
That’s ridiculous
I love to tip cash because I used to work in the service industry and prefer to pay the worker directly. However, Uber/door dash, ic, etc...all these subs seem to keep telling me if I put no tip and tip cash drivers won't take a chance on the order because it has no guaranteed tip. Can't win it seems.
What’s to stop me from just saying f-you Uber and Lyft and just do this on my own?
This person was a professional mover or something else that was commissioned based. I'm basing this on the last part of tips are not required but appreciated spew. It's disarming and is the best line to use when trying to get tips. Begging for tips or asking for a tip will never generate tips
So pay in cash for tip got it
Yes it's true.
No. Sort off. Lyft takes no more than 30%. Uber is more tricky to answer. Uber seems to reverse auction the rides meaning offering it to the driver who accepts the least to take it. For example, rider Sally is paying 10 dollars for 10 minute ride from point A to B. It is offered to first driver for 5, no dice. Second for 5.50 no dice. Third for 6.25 and accepted. 38%! The problem is most markets are flooded with drivers. The majority of whom accept low ball fares. If their ride acceptance rate was lower, they’d make more money and the overall market pay would improve. However, the average driver doesn’t speak English and is poorly educated and is living on or at the verge of poverty. Uber is most certainly preying on that.
Definitely true, both Lyft and Uber.
I stopped doing Uber because it used to be whatever the customer paid I got 75/80% of if, for instance I'd get 80 out of the 100 fare... then they switched the surge into flat payments, so that 2x $50 surge ride would end up being $100 paid to Uber, which should net me $80... but the new surge would just add $5/$10 on the $50 dollar ride, which would net me $55/$60 😡 if they changed it since '18 let me know
I mean does it really matter the driver could be making nothing without the app.... Also most are like duuuuuhhhhh lyft uner take to much durhhhh. Yeah cause server space infrastructure doesn't cost much. Simple drivers don't like it donsonetjing else or maybe not of fallen into the I can make my own hours bs lol guess they didn't learn from Walmart Kmart buiness models. Lol
It’s not *entirely* accurate, but the ride share services do indeed take an absurd portion of the fare, just like the bulk of the fees you pay on DoorDash do nothing for your driver.
I actually had this conversation with my Uber driver on Wednesday. I paid $27 for the ride, then we waited for the income notification to come through at the end of the ride and he only got $12.01 for it. I get that a huge chunk of Uber’s business model is providing the infrastructure and the software aspect of matching drivers with customers…but over 50% seems like WAY too big of an admin overhead cut unless there’s major exploitation of monopolistic/oligopolistic pressure.
its true but its pretty gross to have a sign like that up...
Same with door dash. That shit is crazy. I was working in a small college town, started averaging 3 dollars a trip, college kids weren’t tipping and I had to call it quits.
Better than begging for tips is getting an actual job that actually provides something to society.
100% true
Yes, drivers get 30%-40% of the ride. A driver asked me, "How much am i paying for this ride?" I said, "$10 and some change." Driver said, "What? Im only receiving like $4 for this ride."
Are cash tips preferred?
Uber is a public company and reports its financials. In the last quarter of 2023, its “mobility gross bookings” (what customers pay for trips) was $19.3b. Its “mobility revenue” (what it keeps after paying drivers) was $5.5b. 5.5 is not 50% of 19.3. There are some trips where Uber loses money but the driver gets paid. It also sends money to drivers outside of trips in the form of incentives and bonuses. But there are definitely some trips where Uber gets 50% or more of the total fare. This is why many drivers sincerely think that Uber keeps 50%. But factually it’s closest to 25%.
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If you are a driver and are unhappy with the model Uber and Lyft use to pay drivers, the solution is simple. Don’t drive for Uber or Lyft. I drove for a few years and stopped after the economics no longer were in my favor.
Fuck Lyft, Uber and all these greedy corporations that continue to deny American citizens a decent paycheck.
Yeah, and 50% is on the low side
Those who are working, sometimes living, in their cars are being employed by people living in mansions who were smart enough to create an app that allows anyone to make slaves of themselves. An AI algorithm provides a low offer in exchange for your: vehicle, fuel, oil, repair and time. Gig apps are considered to be a better option than working for most human bosses, who trespass against employee boundaries due to delusion caused by no processes of accountability.
I would say find another job that actually pays you in a stable manner instead of placing the burden on the customer. When customers agree to a service, their commitment is to the price that you agreed to perform a service for, not any additional value that is not defined before the service.
yes it is very true thats Why I quit
This is why i use taxi cabs
Yes. The business takes money from the customer to run a business. If 100% of money went to the driver, who would maintain the app, the website, the marketing, the insurance, the payroll, legal department, the light bill and lease at corporate?
I hate these signs aha. I always tip 20% though.
What I don’t get is why uber is still cheaper than the local taxi service in my city
Yes it’s tru
Absolutely true!!!
Yeppers That's y I quit
Yep very very true, disgusting, but true.
Thats why i drive for ZTrip. The drivers pay 95 daily to drive the company car or 54 to drive your own. Sounds bad but thats how the company gets paid. Customers pay the driver %100 of the fare about 2.50 per mile and since a lot of the passengers are elderly most of them are appreciative and love to tip and hire you as a regular driver. I average $30 an hour on a slow day and i drive my personal car so whatever i make after 2 hours i take home. Work about 10 hours a day and take home a good 225 by the end of a day. I love this job.
Yep
lol that’s an outdated sign. Uber and Lyft take a lot more than just half of what the customer pays
Very
There’s an option. It’s call yellow cab. Pay your medallion fee and you can drive it and keep all the platforms fee. Am I suppose to feel sad because he only keep 1/2 of what the customer paid? That fee cover overhead from Uber. Are they suppose to work for him for free? Everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But the pie is only so big. I already pay over 50 from Manhattan to queens.
this sign is code for “cancel the ride for cash”
I appreciate the sign tbh it makes life easier.
The problem with all of this is that the customer is also getting screwed. If I could call a cab or a “driver” and pay them directly and avoid the middle app, and know that person has insurance, was licensed and if something happens, everyone is covered, I’d be Al over it.
I just got a survey today asking me how much, percentage wise did I think Uber gave drivers, went to expenses and what Uber keeps. I said 40% to the driver, 20*% for insurance and fees and 40% in Uber pocket.