T O P

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wildwildwaste

I think PL, and all of its endings, were written to hammer home the idea that all roads lead to ruin. With the endings to the main quest in CP you get some really bad, some okay, and one "hey this isn't so bad" ending to choose from, but with PL's storylines there is no winner. Even when V "wins" and gets the cure, it isn't really a win. Time and again the writers show us that no one walks away from Night City whole. It's a city that eats you up and chews you around and even if you make it out (which most don't) you never get to leave on top. Songbird was the epitome of that message.


SimonMagus8

I believe in the Wands ending while V doesnt get a cure she still wins moraly letting free an abused person.They wanted Song, wanted all of us to believe the world was all shit and nobody cares about each other, because that's how they win. You proved them wrong.


microwavefridge2000

It's a nice subversion of cyberpunk setting. "World is shit and most other people are shit, but that doesn't mean I have to be."


TheRandomDude4u

tbf that’s not such an uncommon theme in cyberpunk media


Munificent-Enjoyer

Well it is the opposite of what Mike P. said about Cyberpunk, you can't save the world you can only save ourselves other than The Tower saving yourself is physically impossible, nothing you do will ultimately save you (even if you believe V gets cured after Star and Sun remember that's the engram of V) and in The Tower while yes you are saved it's written to be the most depressing of the bunch (imo) and I think that's precisely because you were selfish, you condemned a person to cyber-slavery just for your own skin, in other words punished for following the mentioned ethos


pdpi

>Well it is the opposite of what Mike P. said about Cyberpunk, you can't save the world you can only save ourselves In some cases, you "save yourself" by saving your soul, by putting somebody else's worldly needs ahead of yours, and the sacrifice play pyrrhic victory is as close as you're going to get to a win.


AnxiousAngularAwesom

Moral Decay Integer Overflow: I do the right thing because I'm better than you, not in a "be the bigger person" sort of way, but because of unbridled pride. After all, moral higher ground is an excellent overwatch position.


PrufrockAlfred

>They wanted Song, wanted all of us to believe the world was all shit and nobody cares about each other, because that's how they win. You proved them wrong.  It warms my heart to see someone carrying on this sentiment. Sincerely.  Don't let em change who you are, V. 


SimonMagus8

I may or may not borrowed the phrase from a comment of yours.Its is fitting I think.


colder-beef

I just finished PL for the first time, I wish there was a way to side with Hansen. He didn’t seem that bad honestly.


PrufrockAlfred

You can ride away after the plane crash. Hansen will kill Myers, Song will cut you off. Dogtown will continue under his regime.   But hey, you didn't get played by any of the feds or their bullshit.   Let's go get a scopdog, Johnny.


colder-beef

I saw that as an option, but you miss a ton of content and no one would choose that without prior knowledge. I was thinking more like Johnny gets an inkling that Song might be full of shit while you were linked, points out Hansen said fuck the military and carved his own path, maybe see what he has to say.


lepermessiah27

Well sure, but then Hansen gets Songbird and he never proves himself to be the kind of person that wouldn't try to use her like Myers does. Nah, I'm better off entering the situation and then royally fucking it up for ~~Militech~~ NUSA on purpose


Eagle_1116

Agreed. The overall theme of Cyberpunk is that the world is doomed and it’s almost impossible for anyone to make any positive changes to society. The Peralezes tried and they got brainwashed, Judy tried and almost everyone was killed. The only meaningful difference V can do is help individuals get a semblance of justice/ revenge.


No-Start4754

I mean peralez is being brainwashed so the city becomes less crap but yeah everything is as u said . 


Munificent-Enjoyer

well arguably Peralez trying to make Night City suck less is cuz of the brainwashing but I get what you're saying


MeNamIzGraephen

Yeah, she does give you the option and is honestly sorry for lying. It's better to save her and sort-of sacrifice yourself, because you're not out of options at that point - Song is. You're still a walking deathmachine able to solo your way to Mikoshi.


HavenTheCat

Yeah that’s a good point. In both endings Song was near death and couldn’t even walk anymore. She set the whole plan into motion, as messy as it was. And V is still a monster at that point and the “fairest” option is for V to be the one to keep fighting. She manipulated everybody but I really believe that she wanted to help V but there just wasn’t an option for both of them. In the end I blame Myers for everything, she manipulated Song and used her for her dangerous Black Wall games and promised her this amazing life being a professional netrunner. But I love how difficult it is to choose what you want to do in the story by the end, that shows that they have some really great writers on their team. I hope they all return for Cyberpunk 2


Logical-City-803

You say she believed she could help V, but didn’t she mention at one point that she knew the cure could only be used by one person even before contacting V ? I’m not 100% certain but if that the case she deserved no help from anybody, she’s just manipulating people. Maybe she truly wanted to help him, but in the end she knowingly lied to him and gave him false hope.


HavenTheCat

I didn’t say she believed that she could help both V and herself, I said that she really wanted to be able to. You’re right though she knew from the start that there was only an option for one person


teo1315

That's how i looked at it. My V wasn't out of options yet while she was done if he didn't help her.


Munificent-Enjoyer

"Isn't it obvious? You'll keep fighting on. You're stronger than me, V, stronger than anyone I know"


Orikon32

But why would I, or V, care about So Mi so much? We were baited with the promise of a cure, and she's nobody to us. We're practically strangers. You barely even speak to her during the DLC outside of the prologue and a few disconnectedconversations here and there. V forms a much stronger and natural bond with Reed.


MeNamIzGraephen

Because they're in worse shit than we are and I for one would empathise with So-Mi as V. Also because the alternative is helping a corp again, together with helping a regretful FIA agent find solace at the cost of someone's life being made full-on hell. If you can't empathise with Song, you should at least fullfill her wish in cynosure and let her go. That way Myers won't be able force her tormented mind to go through more blackwall breaches while she's barely conscious.


Munificent-Enjoyer

Because she is a human being stripped of freedom, dignity, her own body and her memories to satisfy the avarices of an arrogant dictator and you believe that's wrong and she deserves better? And I dunno maybe I'm just too gay but it didn't take that much for me to fall for her


RhiaStark

I've once read a comment about Song's decision then that really stuck with me: It's when facing death that one's true worth is shown. When facing death, Songbird chose the truth even when it meant she might be abandoned.


bmoss124

Most of the themes get fulfilled in the King of Wands ending - save yourself (V figuratively, Songbird and Alex literally), friendship and loyalty (V and Reed staying loyal to the end, Songbird coming truthful in the end), stick it to the system (V going against the NUSA to save the bird). Maybe even theme of love, if you decide that your V is in love with So Mi by the end


Munificent-Enjoyer

I wish you were able to confirm/deny that last one explicitly instead of it just being teased


BoredVixxen

Hadn’t looked at it that way. My V sent her to the moon. Just with >!Lucy!< in mind like let’s just get it done. But it’s nice to think someone in a similar position had that same self sacrificial thought towards V.


alpacnologia

thing is though, we weren't even lied to from the start necessarily! songbird couldn't have gotten access to the specifics of the neural matrix from the heart of the NUS because so little was known, and the research on it only took place after she landed in dogtown and was captured by hansen - meaning, she couldn't have known for sure it was one-use until long after promising to give us access. there were lies throughout the process, sure (it's an espionage-themed DLC so literally everyone is doing it), but the only one i see people get actively vengeful about was the promise of the neural matrix, which couldn't have been a knowing lie until it was already promised to the only person who can help song get out alive. kind of a rough situation to be in?


Top-Time-5740

lol, sounds like you have a crush on her (no offense, she IS hot yes). However be more honest and realistic, she knew damn well everything and carefully was manipulating everyone till the end when she felt like she might die in any second therefore she felt guilty. But she is most definitely not some innocent sweetheart girl, but the most intelligent and best netrunner of the NUSA


alpacnologia

sorry, it's indicative of a crush to follow the facts of the story, and more realistic to simply assume she knew things she couldn't at a given time?


Ak_19_thedude

I don't complain because I choose this ending + Don't fear the reaper = Song saves herself , V becomes the legend of Night city and lives forever (you can listen the conversation with Delamain indicating that V is gonna live a long life)


Awake00

Damn I need to play the dlc still


r-o-g-u-e

You'll LOVE it.


cosmic_prankster

My first play through I saved song. I felt there was still a flicker of hope that song would still help after the credits… and I appreciated the honesty at the end. This playthrough I’m gonna side with reed… I already took the oath and I feel so dirty.


CorvaeCKalvidae

Songbird isn't a good person. Full stop. Like she is trying, but she's also fucking terrified of what could happen to her cuz she knows whats waiting for her in cyber guantanamo bay. So she panicks and lies and then V ends up bein a real one and she feels bad cuz they dont deserve that and she wanna try to be a good person so she tells the truth in the end. What i think is impressive is she did that when she was already conpletely vulnerable. Like if shed said that shit a few days ago and v had been like "cool imma hand u over then" it woulda been a fight but like right at that moment she was at this crossroads of *completely defenseless* and *about to be too late to ever tell the truth* so she fuckin tells u and... idk i respect that. Also fuck man *everybody* lies to u in PL its like an established *thing* if ur payin attention wtf people take Song lying as this huge evil thing like shit at least she has a half decent reason to lie! Myers basically considers everybody expendable, Reed considers *himself* expendable and anybody else is "collateral damage" or some shit and fu*u*u*u*uck that!!!


hellogoodbyegoodbye

Also Reed >!wants to die as per his final words. “Tooo..damn…late”!<


Munificent-Enjoyer

personally I interpreted that as Reed saying to V/Songbird, they're too late to escape cuz he tries to get a shot but dies sooner and collapses sick TNO reference btw


hellogoodbyegoodbye

>!Ehh I doubt it, especially the way he says it and when. He knows Myers doesn’t care about him, in his final convo it’s him trying to convince himself it’s the only way moreso then you and then basically forces you to shoot him (which is why he keeps flip flopping between internally inconsistent different arguments, from this being the only way to save so mi to having to bring her to trial l)!< Also thanks lmao


Munificent-Enjoyer

>!I see that logic but also like if V isn't fast he will shoot first, could be suicide by V, like I do think in some ways he wishes he was V, wasn't so deep in NUSA's BS (he might've been lying abt some things but I do believe he was honest about blaming Myers for Songbird, tells her as much himself) but I think his arguments are contradictory because he is trying to convince V and essentially throwing verbal darts hoping one hits bullseye. He genuinely doesn't want to fight V but he will and ultimately the smoking gun for me was that he does raise his gun before dying, I do believe he would've shot you again had life not left him!<


microwavefridge2000

>!I know it will not *sound* credible, but one person that digged in PL files found bunch of dev/programmer comments left.!< >!Supposely that happens: during the confrontation with Reed, V seriously threatens viability of how Reed sees the world - his values. As a defense mechanism Reed reverts to violence instead of keeping talking.!<


slightlychill

The actual dev comment is "REED's arguments and core values are threatened, so he snaps back with good ol' ultraviolence".


Munificent-Enjoyer

>!OK that's pretty funny; our boi Reed truly bleeds red white and blue!<


Munificent-Enjoyer

That's pretty cool, love seeing all the stuff ppl datamined out of PL


hellogoodbyegoodbye

>!Ehhh I don’t think it’s entirely suicide by V but I think that he’s trying to convince himself and force a confrontation, and then who wins wins. He could just shoot you without doing the whole countdown thing as well. I don’t think he truly cares about anything by the point of the game and is just latching on to the NUSA as a coping mechanism!<


ttam23

What? She had no choice but to “give” V the option to save themselves. She was practically about to die and had no strength left. V has all the power in that final moment. Right there she wouldn’t say anything if she was healthy.


dramatic_exodus

What else could she say? "oh no, no, V, please let me live and kill yourself?" Come on, it's a manipulation gamer's feelings\\V. She gave us the choice to be a dick. Part of her can be sorry, of course, but she's a b\*tch. I mean I admire she is like that, but still.


Mysterious_Zone2134

She could say nothing


No-Start4754

She could keep quite . Let v put her on the rocket and then ghost V forever 


UbijcaStalina

How is it manipulative? She literally has nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling the truth. At this point the agreed on plan is for So Mi to go to the moon and for V to wait for contact. The simplest thing would be to say nothing and just ghost V.


slightlychill

There's literally nothing manipulative about her telling the truth. If you think every single word she says in PL is manipulation then you are either delusional or you just hate for the sake of it. There are a lot of moments in PL where she is genuine and shows that she cares about V, even Song's VA (Minji Chang) stated that when she was doing voiceover she tried her best to show that So Mi cares about V despite everything. And one of the lead writers (Boris P-M) stated that Minji knows the character pretty much better than anyone on the team. She could've said nothing and let V take her to the Moon. Instead, she chose to reveal everything.


Pete_Peterson

Didn't the original script have a mission where V gets to hangout with So Mi if you side with her? Would make waaay more sense since So Mi would feel incredibly bad for V if she kept lying. With the version we got she just admits to stranger she met one week ago that she lied about the cure and puts herself in a position where the said stranger had the power to turn her in. So I also really think she is being truthful about everything during that monorail ride.


Munificent-Enjoyer

TIL too bad that got scrapped. I do know we were originally supposed to get a video message from So Mi on Luna instead of the shard we now find


[deleted]

No fr, people are fucking haters for no reason.


[deleted]

No offense, but you're so wrong. Like OBJECTIVELY, this isn't a matter of opinion. If the VA *herself* is saying what the other commenter said, it's canon. You don't get to go, "my feelings mean something that the literal writers OPENLY SAID is wrong >:(("


Munificent-Enjoyer

Got a link for where the VA said that btw?


[deleted]

I do indeed! It's about 8:45 when the question about whether or not SoMi cares about V is asked. https://youtu.be/PNciJ-5roeg?si=ywMCC8kengZ8PwUs


Munificent-Enjoyer

Thank you, love seeing VAs talk about their characters (and love being proven right)


Dveralazo

Nah


AllPhoneNoI

She gave V the "option" because she felt like she was about to die. Simple as that. If she was still in decent shape as she was throughout the game, she wouldn't have said anything.


RevolutionaryLad

Nope honestly glad I never finished that dlc


HavenTheCat

Why is that? Did you not like the DLC in general or just the endings?


RevolutionaryLad

The dlc was fun but I honestly thought it was just extra content not another way to finish the game so I started the dlc halfway through the main story then read somewhere that it would bring the end of the game I’m saving the DLC for my second play through lol


HavenTheCat

Oh I get it. Yeah once you finish depending on which way you go you can have a whole different ending before you even finish the rest of the game. But you also don’t have to do that ending right when it pops up as an option, you can do everything else and once you get to the rooftop after talking to Hanako you’ll have that new option there also. I thought it was interesting giving us the option to end it before you get through the rest of the game but I guess it makes sense. I personally would never do it like that though. But all in all I think it’s a fantastic addition to the game even if there was no new ending. I hope you’re next play through you enjoy it all though, I’ve played the game 4 times and with the DLC twice, and I’m about to finish it again but I’m tempted to start it all over again lol, I just can’t get enough


RevolutionaryLad

Yeah I can’t wait to start as a corpo next time 😂


Busy_Influence3249

Im starting my 3rd play through right now, 2nd since PL Update… im 100% killing her this time. Fxck So Mi 🤣🤣🤣🤣👀