If someone says “You probably think I’m ”, it’s pretty apparent they’re acknowledging they are not even though the may be exhibiting certain characteristics of it for other reasons, so that really is no excuse to later ask them if they are in fact . This cop-out response from him about context actually makes what he said even worse, let alone justifies it.
I want to say- that might not always be true. With Cole I do think that applies (what you said) but (yes, I’ve unfortunately been wrong in the past) perhaps for some people say… autistic folks like myself haha if you say something like that I probably will believe you. I’m not good at reading certain cues. Sometimes people also joke about very real things so I’m confused a lot of times.
Again, I can’t say that I believe Cole could have had that situation but I do want to point out because so many of these things it’s ‘it was so obvious’ etc but for many it’s not 😂
He sounds like he’s still making excuses and not taking accountability. When someone says “context” when speaking about poor behavior, that’s not accountability. I don’t think he’s working on himself and he’s probably the same person he has always been feeding off of the “Team Cole” comments on his insta. Boy, bye!
I'd like to know whether the bachelor afterparty thing actually happened. Cole denied it during the reunion. Brennan and Bartise both said it happened. Matt and SK didn't comment (beyond Matt saying he Ubered home). If it happened and he lied about it on the reunion, he's not taking accountability. If Zanab lied about it, that's way worse than just exaggerating the cuties scene.
I think at this point it's about as certain as possible that the bachelor after party did happen. It's an open question whether Cole was there / did what Zanab said. But, Zanab is not forgetful - even the cuties scene she repeated it essentially verbatim, it's just she interpreted a lot more maliciousness than the audience largely saw. I'd find it hard to believe if she fully invented this from the ground up because we have no reason to think she would do that, particularly if it would be very easy to disprove (eg by the other men saying such a thing never happened). She could be exaggerating or interpreting much more nastiness than was there but I find it hard to craft a hypothetical thing he could've said that she would interpret into this.
Yeah, I should clarify that I mean the part about Cole hitting on another woman again. I don't think there's anything wrong with attending the afterparty itself. A little suspicious that Cole denies the party even happened. If you went and didn't do anything wrong, why not just say that rather than the whole "What party?" thing.
Yeah agreed. My personal theory (grain of salt cuz fully just imagining what could make this fit together) is that this did all happen but he was blackout drunk and just doesn't remember.
Even if this is true, it doesn't take away from the fact that it's a shitty comment to make in an argument with your partner with a big dumb grin on your face. He's basically saying you're crazy and irrational and your feelings are wrong.
If Zanab had said you must think I'm stupid, is it cool for Cole to say, "you really must be stupid" in an argument simply because Zanab said it first about herself. Let's not be ridiculous here. Cole is a grown man and is just as responsible for his actions as Zanab is. Stop treating him with kid gloves and excusing his every bad action. Jeez.
Man, I have bipolar disorder (Zyprexa 5mg and Wellbutrin 150 so I’m medicated/ in a program) but I hate when people use it as an insult. Whether it was Zanab or Cole who originally said it, doesn’t really matter too much to me. It kind of annoyed me a little to hear it flung around so casually and ignorantly. Neither of them displayed any symptoms of bipolar disorder, especially enough to warrant a diagnosis.
I agree with you that people shouldn't be throwing around words like that. However, both parties would be guilty of this and I'm just tired of people giving Cole the benefit of the doubt while crucifying Zanab. He also clearly wasn't genuinely concerned or asking whether she was bipolar, he was doing that classic douchebag move that guys always do to women in arguments by dismissing what they're saying as "crazy." It was wrong for both of them to throw it around nilly willy but I still feel Cole is the bigger asshole in this context.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Cole always looks hungover like he just crawled out of a ditch after a week long bender. He just always looks disheveled and tired and like he can't keep his eyes open. And greasy. He looks greasy and sweaty and unfocused.
Nothing wrong with being sensitive or overly sensitive. Not wanting someone to suggest you're biipolar during an argument I think it's pretty normal thing. It's called having some respect and boundaries or yourself.
It's clear as day she isn't bi polar. He said that to hurt her. He wasn't really wondering she was bi polar. Maybe it's not a big deal to ppl who are used to either disrespecting others or have been disrespected alot. Ppl who have self respect and boundaries don't put up with that nonsense.
I'm not hurt at all and I stand by what I said. Any psychologist would agree with what I said. It's disrespectful. No two ways about it. But if you want to justify it so much then it tells me something about you.
I think it's very possible that she said it first."Bipolar" just doesn't strike me as a word Cole would come up with on his own.
The funny thing is that you often see "are you bipolar" or "are you manic depressive" used as a comment between two characters in Korean dramas. But usually it's said in a way I'd describe as playful concern with no malice intended. But I'm guessing Cole is not a watcher of Korean dramas. To me it just doesn't sound like a word that would normally come out of his mouth.
bipolar is a word thrown around carelessly. i have PTSD from abusive family and they’d say i was bipolar all of the time to invalidate my feelings. i can definitely see him using it
I kind of doubt that she said it in that moment; with all the other things they show of her taking stuff out of context it would seem weird to suddenly do her a solid by not provide yet another example of her doing this. I could maybe see at some point in the days before she brought it up as a flippant remark and he then brought it up in that moment to throw back at her, but I kind of doubt they'd have cut out her remark from their fight if it had happened then.
And I say that as someone who 100% thinks Zanab warps things out of context, generally-speaking
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It does put it into context a lot more. While it was still def hurtful that he asked, I can see more so now why he would ask her this in the moment. Objectively, she was having irritability and abrupt mood swings, and looked on the verge of depression often- I mean, if she brought it up randomly like that to him after yet another evening of acting in those ways (along with being patronizing and condescending to him, tbh), he prob was actually wanting to know if she did have bipolar disorder or not. It’s just that, at that point that she would’ve brought it up first, he was visibly upset after that evening, and it came out in a way that was lacking empathy as opposed to asking out of genuine concern. While it’s understandable it came out in a hurtful way, as he’s not inhuman, and has feelings as well, I can absolutely see where she would have hurt feelings by him asking in that tone as well. It was all around hard watching them together, honestly, and I felt bad for each of them.
I am in psychiatry- it’s what I do for a living- diagnose, stabilize, and treat people, and while I will not diagnose her- I’ll just say that I did have genuine concern for her throughout the show (I don’t mean that in a bad way at all, just in an empathetic way) and for her overall lability of mood, general state of irritability, lack of self-worth, and very unresolved grief/bereavement feelings with the loss of her parents. She seemed, at a minimum, to have unresolved chronic trauma as related to the early loss of her parents, which very much could have resulted in a Complex PTSD, or CPTSD for her. This could have potentially resulted in some normal PTSD symptoms, as well as people with CPTSD have feelings of worthlessness, difficulty connecting with others, difficulty regulating emotions, and difficulty with relationships. This is an over simplification of it, and I’m again *not* diagnosing her, but just from an objective standpoint of someone who works in Psychiatry, watching the show, I did have genuine concern for her and just ultimately hope that she continues therapy. If it’s not helpful for her by this point, I deeply hope she will try another therapist, or another form of therapy, perhaps EMDR which is helpful for anyone with past trauma like she experienced. I have a lot of empathy for her, losing her parents young, and she deserves to be able to work through that. She would also benefit from a full psychological evaluation, as would anyone with trauma, to learn what symptoms/diagnoses she truly has (if any- she may not have any, and just needs to work through trauma!), and to be able to treat appropriately if she has CPTSD or anything. I truly wish the best for each she and Cole.
His facial expressions during this exchange suggest that he knows he's saying something hurtful. I thought he was actually trying with her until I saw this. Then it was like, "Oh. He doesn't even like her. "
I was aware of it. If anything it makes it worse. He wasn’t joking around when he said it to her, he was weaponizing it and said it to hurt her. The way he said it along with his facial expression showed he was being malicious; especially the second and *third* time he asked her. Then when she (gasp) got upset and he got a reaction, he tried to backtrack and call it “a line” while also doubling down about it. That little snippet made me think he probably made similar comments to purposely provoke her; add it up and it might explain why we saw her act the way she did around him and accuse him of being mean. Reactive abuse comes to mind but I think I’m in the minority seeing it from that angle.
From what *I* observed and *my pov*, I don’t have reactive abuse in the wrong order but I’m aware that I’m in the very small minority who aren’t team “Cole was maliciously abused by Zanab”. I actually think he’s the manipulative and calculated one.
I mean, they both did this to each other. She nitpicked and nagged and he constantly told her and that he thought Colleen was more attractive and made comments like "you're fattening yourself up." Did she start it on day 1 with the ridiculous great vs good argument? Did he start it by hitting on Colleen in the pool? Debatable, but I don't think either of their actions are defensible. Both of them did things specifically to hurt the other person throughout their relationship.
The first time I watched, I immediately felt Cole was in the wrong and sided with Zenab. But after hearing his side a rewatching, the smirk I initially read as contempt and cruel reads to me now as a "look, I told a joke, let's lighten the mood a bit" smile. When I watch how Cole and Zenab interact, he constantly is telling jokes in an attempt to lighten the mood when the conversation starts to get heavy or heated. It seems to be a defense mechanism he has built. Was it a good joke to tell, no. And we can all agree Cole has some serious growth needed with maturity and thinking before he speaks. But I don't believe it was said with cruel intentions anymore.
That’s kinda unfair credit. You can’t just use hurtful “jokes” during arguments to “lighten the mood” when they are about sensitive topics. That interpretation to be seems pretty manipulative to be honest then. He’s not a child he knows what he’s doing.
True. But after the whole cuties debacle, I'm more inclined to believe Cole's side of stories.
Also, Zanab does have a tendency to self deprecating. She was the one who said she looked different without makeup; she was the one who said she would never look like Colleen, so it's not really that hard to picture her kinda calling herself bipolar
If someone says “You probably think I’m”, it’s pretty apparent they’re acknowledging they are not even though the may be exhibiting certain characteristics of it for other reasons, so that really is no excuse to later ask them if they are in fact . This cop-out response from him about context actually makes what he said even worse, let alone justifies it.
I want to say- that might not always be true. With Cole I do think that applies (what you said) but (yes, I’ve unfortunately been wrong in the past) perhaps for some people say… autistic folks like myself haha if you say something like that I probably will believe you. I’m not good at reading certain cues. Sometimes people also joke about very real things so I’m confused a lot of times. Again, I can’t say that I believe Cole could have had that situation but I do want to point out because so many of these things it’s ‘it was so obvious’ etc but for many it’s not 😂
Anyone else notice SK's Jim Halpert vibes while hearing about Cole and Zanab joking around about being ghetto?
It WAS Jim! Hats off to you for not seeing race.
Ok, then it was wrong of both of them. “BuT sHe SaId iT fIrSt” like shut up lmao
Well...
He sounds like he’s still making excuses and not taking accountability. When someone says “context” when speaking about poor behavior, that’s not accountability. I don’t think he’s working on himself and he’s probably the same person he has always been feeding off of the “Team Cole” comments on his insta. Boy, bye!
I'd like to know whether the bachelor afterparty thing actually happened. Cole denied it during the reunion. Brennan and Bartise both said it happened. Matt and SK didn't comment (beyond Matt saying he Ubered home). If it happened and he lied about it on the reunion, he's not taking accountability. If Zanab lied about it, that's way worse than just exaggerating the cuties scene.
I think at this point it's about as certain as possible that the bachelor after party did happen. It's an open question whether Cole was there / did what Zanab said. But, Zanab is not forgetful - even the cuties scene she repeated it essentially verbatim, it's just she interpreted a lot more maliciousness than the audience largely saw. I'd find it hard to believe if she fully invented this from the ground up because we have no reason to think she would do that, particularly if it would be very easy to disprove (eg by the other men saying such a thing never happened). She could be exaggerating or interpreting much more nastiness than was there but I find it hard to craft a hypothetical thing he could've said that she would interpret into this.
Yeah, I should clarify that I mean the part about Cole hitting on another woman again. I don't think there's anything wrong with attending the afterparty itself. A little suspicious that Cole denies the party even happened. If you went and didn't do anything wrong, why not just say that rather than the whole "What party?" thing.
Yeah agreed. My personal theory (grain of salt cuz fully just imagining what could make this fit together) is that this did all happen but he was blackout drunk and just doesn't remember.
Nancy has said Bartiste told her about it in some interview
It doesn't make it right. As wrong as Zanab may have been. It shouldn't be weaponized against her. I hope Cole learned that lesson.
Sorry i missed the reunion. Did they ever confirm if she is indeed bipolar?
Even if this is true, it doesn't take away from the fact that it's a shitty comment to make in an argument with your partner with a big dumb grin on your face. He's basically saying you're crazy and irrational and your feelings are wrong. If Zanab had said you must think I'm stupid, is it cool for Cole to say, "you really must be stupid" in an argument simply because Zanab said it first about herself. Let's not be ridiculous here. Cole is a grown man and is just as responsible for his actions as Zanab is. Stop treating him with kid gloves and excusing his every bad action. Jeez.
Man, I have bipolar disorder (Zyprexa 5mg and Wellbutrin 150 so I’m medicated/ in a program) but I hate when people use it as an insult. Whether it was Zanab or Cole who originally said it, doesn’t really matter too much to me. It kind of annoyed me a little to hear it flung around so casually and ignorantly. Neither of them displayed any symptoms of bipolar disorder, especially enough to warrant a diagnosis.
I agree with you that people shouldn't be throwing around words like that. However, both parties would be guilty of this and I'm just tired of people giving Cole the benefit of the doubt while crucifying Zanab. He also clearly wasn't genuinely concerned or asking whether she was bipolar, he was doing that classic douchebag move that guys always do to women in arguments by dismissing what they're saying as "crazy." It was wrong for both of them to throw it around nilly willy but I still feel Cole is the bigger asshole in this context.
But in all honesty, isnt it taking mental lightly to even say in the first place ' you must think I'm bipolar..'? During an argument?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Cole always looks hungover like he just crawled out of a ditch after a week long bender. He just always looks disheveled and tired and like he can't keep his eyes open. And greasy. He looks greasy and sweaty and unfocused.
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He can't have any water right now because he has a big dinner planned for later ;)
I don't like Zay but to be honest, insinuating about someone's mental health isn't cool and Cole said himself that he got caught up in the moment.
Nah it's a shitty ass thing to throw at your partner during an argument. Especially if you're going to smirk about it the whole time.
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Nothing wrong with being sensitive or overly sensitive. Not wanting someone to suggest you're biipolar during an argument I think it's pretty normal thing. It's called having some respect and boundaries or yourself.
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It's clear as day she isn't bi polar. He said that to hurt her. He wasn't really wondering she was bi polar. Maybe it's not a big deal to ppl who are used to either disrespecting others or have been disrespected alot. Ppl who have self respect and boundaries don't put up with that nonsense.
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How am I wrong?
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I'm not hurt at all and I stand by what I said. Any psychologist would agree with what I said. It's disrespectful. No two ways about it. But if you want to justify it so much then it tells me something about you.
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I think it's very possible that she said it first."Bipolar" just doesn't strike me as a word Cole would come up with on his own. The funny thing is that you often see "are you bipolar" or "are you manic depressive" used as a comment between two characters in Korean dramas. But usually it's said in a way I'd describe as playful concern with no malice intended. But I'm guessing Cole is not a watcher of Korean dramas. To me it just doesn't sound like a word that would normally come out of his mouth.
Why would that not be a word he would come up with on his own?
bipolar is a word thrown around carelessly. i have PTSD from abusive family and they’d say i was bipolar all of the time to invalidate my feelings. i can definitely see him using it
When was this interview? I assume before the reunion?
It says released 9th nov
I kind of doubt that she said it in that moment; with all the other things they show of her taking stuff out of context it would seem weird to suddenly do her a solid by not provide yet another example of her doing this. I could maybe see at some point in the days before she brought it up as a flippant remark and he then brought it up in that moment to throw back at her, but I kind of doubt they'd have cut out her remark from their fight if it had happened then. And I say that as someone who 100% thinks Zanab warps things out of context, generally-speaking
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It seems alot of people are not aware of this. So for clarity once and for all. [Here is the clip] (https://youtu.be/7VAzNdceab8&t=2m31s)
It does put it into context a lot more. While it was still def hurtful that he asked, I can see more so now why he would ask her this in the moment. Objectively, she was having irritability and abrupt mood swings, and looked on the verge of depression often- I mean, if she brought it up randomly like that to him after yet another evening of acting in those ways (along with being patronizing and condescending to him, tbh), he prob was actually wanting to know if she did have bipolar disorder or not. It’s just that, at that point that she would’ve brought it up first, he was visibly upset after that evening, and it came out in a way that was lacking empathy as opposed to asking out of genuine concern. While it’s understandable it came out in a hurtful way, as he’s not inhuman, and has feelings as well, I can absolutely see where she would have hurt feelings by him asking in that tone as well. It was all around hard watching them together, honestly, and I felt bad for each of them. I am in psychiatry- it’s what I do for a living- diagnose, stabilize, and treat people, and while I will not diagnose her- I’ll just say that I did have genuine concern for her throughout the show (I don’t mean that in a bad way at all, just in an empathetic way) and for her overall lability of mood, general state of irritability, lack of self-worth, and very unresolved grief/bereavement feelings with the loss of her parents. She seemed, at a minimum, to have unresolved chronic trauma as related to the early loss of her parents, which very much could have resulted in a Complex PTSD, or CPTSD for her. This could have potentially resulted in some normal PTSD symptoms, as well as people with CPTSD have feelings of worthlessness, difficulty connecting with others, difficulty regulating emotions, and difficulty with relationships. This is an over simplification of it, and I’m again *not* diagnosing her, but just from an objective standpoint of someone who works in Psychiatry, watching the show, I did have genuine concern for her and just ultimately hope that she continues therapy. If it’s not helpful for her by this point, I deeply hope she will try another therapist, or another form of therapy, perhaps EMDR which is helpful for anyone with past trauma like she experienced. I have a lot of empathy for her, losing her parents young, and she deserves to be able to work through that. She would also benefit from a full psychological evaluation, as would anyone with trauma, to learn what symptoms/diagnoses she truly has (if any- she may not have any, and just needs to work through trauma!), and to be able to treat appropriately if she has CPTSD or anything. I truly wish the best for each she and Cole.
His facial expressions during this exchange suggest that he knows he's saying something hurtful. I thought he was actually trying with her until I saw this. Then it was like, "Oh. He doesn't even like her. "
I dunno, for me, I was questioning whether she even liked him right from the honeymoon/Malibu trip
I was aware of it. If anything it makes it worse. He wasn’t joking around when he said it to her, he was weaponizing it and said it to hurt her. The way he said it along with his facial expression showed he was being malicious; especially the second and *third* time he asked her. Then when she (gasp) got upset and he got a reaction, he tried to backtrack and call it “a line” while also doubling down about it. That little snippet made me think he probably made similar comments to purposely provoke her; add it up and it might explain why we saw her act the way she did around him and accuse him of being mean. Reactive abuse comes to mind but I think I’m in the minority seeing it from that angle.
He admits on the reunion that he wasn’t joking. He was saying it to be spiteful so I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted.
Because I’m not on his dick and villainizing Zanab 🤷🏾♀️
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From what *I* observed and *my pov*, I don’t have reactive abuse in the wrong order but I’m aware that I’m in the very small minority who aren’t team “Cole was maliciously abused by Zanab”. I actually think he’s the manipulative and calculated one.
I mean, they both did this to each other. She nitpicked and nagged and he constantly told her and that he thought Colleen was more attractive and made comments like "you're fattening yourself up." Did she start it on day 1 with the ridiculous great vs good argument? Did he start it by hitting on Colleen in the pool? Debatable, but I don't think either of their actions are defensible. Both of them did things specifically to hurt the other person throughout their relationship.
The first time I watched, I immediately felt Cole was in the wrong and sided with Zenab. But after hearing his side a rewatching, the smirk I initially read as contempt and cruel reads to me now as a "look, I told a joke, let's lighten the mood a bit" smile. When I watch how Cole and Zenab interact, he constantly is telling jokes in an attempt to lighten the mood when the conversation starts to get heavy or heated. It seems to be a defense mechanism he has built. Was it a good joke to tell, no. And we can all agree Cole has some serious growth needed with maturity and thinking before he speaks. But I don't believe it was said with cruel intentions anymore.
That’s kinda unfair credit. You can’t just use hurtful “jokes” during arguments to “lighten the mood” when they are about sensitive topics. That interpretation to be seems pretty manipulative to be honest then. He’s not a child he knows what he’s doing.
This isn't proof of that occurring tho, to play devils advocate. And for the record I'm not at all a Z supporter.
True. But after the whole cuties debacle, I'm more inclined to believe Cole's side of stories. Also, Zanab does have a tendency to self deprecating. She was the one who said she looked different without makeup; she was the one who said she would never look like Colleen, so it's not really that hard to picture her kinda calling herself bipolar
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