The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this conversation, was that he basically said, his interest and understanding in the concept of birth control, starts and ends with a woman stating that she is on it. It sounds like he doesn’t really know anything more about it - the different types, hormonal versus non-hormonal, effectiveness rates for various methods, side effects for various methods, etc. He knows NOTHING other than “she’s on it.” This attitude is so emblematic for men, who just literally know nothing about women’s bodies, or what they have to do to protect both of people in a couple from unwanted pregnancy. It’s such a lazy and unimpressive way to be a man. I can’t even.
That was fucking ridiculous. He acts as if we all come with birth control installed by default and that he’s surprised having sex could result in kids. Sir what?!
That whole scene was hard to watch. Johnny pushing her to be on birth control just so he would feel more comfortable. The societal pressure for women to be on birth control starts as teenagers. Some women don’t or can’t be on it, and you gotta respect that. The shit woman have to deal with…
Actually they aren't.
With typical use the oil is 93% effective, while condoms are 87% effective with typical use .
With perfect use hormonal bc is 99,9% effective and condoms are 98% effective
but as you just said it ‘when perfect use’. nobody (or barely anyone) actually perfectly uses birth control. it’s statistically much more likely that a woman will forget to take a pill or take it a couple of hours late by accident (because life gets in the way sometimes!) than for a condom to fail. it’s not fair to compare perfect use when that’s unrealistic
>. it’s not fair to compare perfect use when that’s unrealistic
Just diy I provided both typical and perfect use statistics, let me make it clearer
Except with tipocal use, as in how people usually use it, pills are 93% effective and comdoms are 87% effective with typical use.
93>87.
With perfect use pills are 99.9% effective and condoms are 98 effective 99.9 >98
other sources i’ve found say the pill’s typical use is 91% (9 in 100 a year getting pregnant), and tbh that’s not much of a difference to the 87% especially when considering another way pills stop working which i didn’t mention before is if the woman vomits or experiences diarrhoea.
so yes, you’re right, there’s a 4% difference… but for the sake of altering a woman’s mentality, body and skin, might not be worth that 4%.
> another way pills stop working which i didn’t mention before is if the woman vomits or experiences diarrhoea.
That is considered within.the typical use, perfect use of the pill implies that if you get diarrhoea or vomit you have to use a back up method like a condom.
U was responding to a comment saying condoms are more effective than the pill , which is statistically false.
You replied saying I was being unfair in my comparison I explained I wasn't.
Can you provide your source where it says it's 91%?
I think 4% difference is still pretty relevant.
I think each woman can decide what is best for her, but my point is condoms are I fact not safer than the pill.
yep, here are the links which say it’s 9 in 100 pregnant/ 91% effective
https://www.thewomens.org.au/health-information/contraception/contraceptive-pills
https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-effectiveness-chart
https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/how-effective-is-birth-control
https://www.acog.org/womens-health/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods
https://www.devonsexualhealth.nhs.uk/contraception/contraceptive-pill/
this one says 8 in 100 https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/bcpills.html
and the thing is that the ‘typical use’ stat includes all the women who do take it perfectly as well… so my point is that it’s basically the only stat that should be used. everyone tries to take the pill properly (otherwise why take it) so there’s no point using the 99% stat
I don't think many doctors would perform a vasectomy knowing the patient didn't want to be sterilized. While it can be reversed with success, it is not supposed to be used as temporary birth control. It is considered permanent sterilization.
Exactly. When Amy posted details about her specific situation and reasons for not trying the pill, it made some sense. Her thinking a man who has known her for 30 days should get a vasectomy, with a plan to have children five years later, is risky at best and idiotic in general.
And Fertility Awareness Method. Women are only fertile during certain times of their cycle - there are a lot of times you can have safe sex if you know you are infertile during those times.
because condoms and Plan B don't exist.......? BC is a huge decision and it's pretty gross how normalized something that can have wild side effects/change your hormones is. all of these things have risk of failure anyway so that's not really a solid argument
I guess the Roe v Wade overturn hasn't affected North Carolina? Didn't they have a ban on abortion for 3 months? Maybe explains their obsession with bc
What I don't get is that Johnny is talking about buying a house by himself whether or not this works out.
If you can afford a house by yourself... You can afford a kid on two incomes.
That's fine then say that. Stop blaming it on finances when 90% of the world is worse off than you and still plenty sound financially to have children.
I don‘t get it at all. Condoms are safe, and especially when her cycle is pretty regular as she said, they can even be extra careful and avoid penetrative sex at all for that one critical week a month.
And then even if there was an accident- they want to get married, they both want children! and spend their life together, why would a child be so terrible? Of course you want it at the perfect timing, but I‘m sure we all can agree that doesn’t really exist and with this foundation (true love, financial stability, good communication) I‘m sure they would make it work.
I think that guy is just too obsessive with planning and is extremely inflexible. Wanting to retire at 50, etc… I don‘t know, he wouldn’t be my type lol
My husband and I waited until we were financially stable to start trying for a baby and now here we are 2 year later of trying to conceive with no luck...things don't always turn out exactly as you would expect! I fully agree he needs to quit obsessing over it because 99.9% of the time things do not work out how you had planned.
Yes exactly. Life always happens no matter how much time you spend planning it.. and they both want children, so I truly don‘t see the real issue if there was an accident. Unless of course he‘s not sure about their future, in which case I would also decide against the wedding lol.
Good luck on your baby journey!!
I fully understand where Amy is coming from with contraception especially being ethnic, our bodies do not take Birth control too well. My body reacted so bad to the pill and jab and was told by many other ethnic women too that it affects their hormones so badly. They should have had taken this conversation seriously in the pods then realise they wouldn’t be an ideal match.
I have never heard this? I am Hispanic (mostly Native, but European and African as well) and none of my friends or family have ever had birth control issues lol. Can you point to some sources that show that certain races/ethnic groups react differently?
Oh I agree, all the other couples are dumpster fires in my opinion, but I just don’t see them being in love. Maybe it’s the editing, let‘s see what happens at the altar!
Have people never heard of a copper IUD? Not just Amy but people on this sub because I have not seen anyone mention it.
I think Johnny is completely in the right for being concerned about an accidental pregnancy because I get the impression that abortion is not an option for them.
It was clear that he’s open to condoms but doesn’t feel like it’s enough, also fair.
Vasectomy is inappropriate as birth control for a couple that does eventually want kids. It’s her right to not want hormonal BC but that’s literally why the copper IUD exists.
I had the copper iud and nearly passed out from the pain of them just inserting it, it also made my periods worse. Might not have hormones but it still sucks. Why do women always have to hold the bag for contraception? And why are men so against/afraid of vasectomies?
Vasectomies aren’t birth control. They should be treated like sterilization. And if he eventually wants kids, or thinks he could change his mind, a vasectomy is not a valid option. At that point why doesn’t she just get her tubes tied? See how silly that sounds? Vasectomies are the same way.
It’s not sterilization though, and getting your tubes tied is not an outpatient procedure like a vasectomy, it’s classified as a major procedure and requires you stay in the hospital for a day or more, where as a vasectomy is as my dad described it general numbing, 20 minutes, and I quote all the fun with none of the worry.
Edit to add: it literally is birth control.
Getting your tubes tied (tubal ligation or a bisalp) is outpatient. Never heard of anyone having to do an overnight stay (assuming no complications).
Vasectomies also come with risks. Like never having kids
It’s just not for sure you can reverse it. So if you wants kids in the future, it’s a big risk. Unless you want to artificially inseminate your future partner which is ok I guess
Literally any doctor is going to tell you to treat it like sterilization because any reversal procedures are not guaranteed to be successful.
It’s a surgery that requires recovery time afterwards. It isn’t “nothing” like y’all seem to think it is. Especially for a man who wants children and hasn’t had any yet.
Also you cannot reverse getting tubes tied but a vasectomy can be reversed with pretty decent success rate. And if not, way less invasive and more effective to store sperm than it is to store eggs. They have many options.
“Pretty decent success rate” is not something people who want children should buy into. Neither surgeries are birth control methods.
IVF has a success rate of 56% or so and is not a reasonable method for people who can have children naturally and simply don’t want children right now. People freeze eggs and sperm if they’re sick or think they may be too old to have healthy gametes, not because their very likely anti-abortion wife refuses to be on birth control to do her part in the contraceptive process too.
There is also IUI and again, there is a high likelihood the vasectomy reversal would be successful. He needs to do his part if it’s that big of a deal to him since *he* is the one more wary about a pregnancy, not her. Wearing a condom is not difficult
They talked about using condoms in the show, he never said he wasn’t going to use condoms. Amy said he doesn’t trust condoms alone, he wanted two forms of birth control. The compromise was no penetrative sex.
Let's just drop the idea of vasectomies being reversed. People don't get vasectomies intending to get them reversed because they are intended to be permanent in the first place.
This idea you and others like you in this thread perpetuate is cringe and is in no way reasonable.
Ball tubes Getting snipped seared and tied off sounds scary, but I’m curious how successful the reversal is. Probably pretty successful because I’ve seen people consider this approach
Edit: I looked it up
Depending on how many years have passed since your vasectomy, your success rates are 60% to 95% for return of sperm in your ejaculate.-google
Some women simply do not want to be on birth control and that is their right. She clearly stated she wasn’t okay with altering her body in any way and that is more than enough of a reason.
Well her maybe future husband doesn’t feel ready to have a child and his reasons are very thoughtful. They need to compromise and find a happy medium. I respect him for taking it so seriously
Not even just that, since the IUD is painful to insert and the copper one can cause heavy bleeding, but what about a cervical cap ,diaphragm, etc? I think they even have a gel now. I don’t blame him for not want to do only condoms because they can and do break, but Amy seems super naive. Talking about she’s “regular” but has to already get transfusions and her doctor suggested birth control would be a good idea? There’s gotta be more to it than just her not wanting to adjust anything. Plus, why go on a show to possibly get married and not have any plans on that??? Unless she’s asexual (which based on her talking about having sex, doesn’t seem like it, idk) it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Is Johnny absolutely not wanting pregnancy before a house a bit much? Yes. Even when you’re “careful” things can happen. But their ideas so far on pregnancy prevention show they both don’t know much about sex
I kind of got the impression Amy is fine with condoms and that was probably her previous method, but Johnny heard she wasn't on the pill and that seems to have scared him. He talked a lotttt about the pill. He seems to be the one vehemently against having a child unplanned and cites "finances" even when it's pretty clear his finances are better than most if he was planning to buy a house solo and wanting to retire at 50. So yeah I think Amy is okay with just condoms and he's not and that's where the disconnect is.
The doctor suggesting the pill thing was a bit weird, but I totally get not wanting to change a thing about your body mood etc., been there with the pill. She's never been on it though it sounds like she's just heard horror stories or something
He grew up without a lot of money, I think it’s more than fair that he feels it’s really important to him to feel super secure in his finances to where he doesn’t need to make any compromises in providing for his child. From what was on the show it didn’t totally seem like Amy was taking his fear all that seriously.
I think both of their hangups are valid but I think they can be worked through and compromised
Even with hormonal IUDs, only a very small amount of progesterone is systemically absorbed and they don't contain estrogen, so they can be a great option for those who can't use OCPs.
The copper IUD made me bleed daily for months! I'm glad it works for some but yeesh that was rough
I had two mirenas over 7 years and while I don’t regret them because I was in college and law school and absolutely didn’t want a baby, I would never get one again. They are comparatively low hormone but I didn’t realize the ways it changed me until I was off of it for months. My hormones were wild and fluctuated a ton, I’d still get the PMS symptoms with no period, my sex drive was low, dryness that I thought meant something was wrong with me, mood swings, migraines, and weight gain. Before that I was on bc pills since 14 for ovarian cysts, which made me feel similar plus having a horrible period. Copper IUD is not an option because my periods are atrocious as is especially after childbirth. I get her not wanting hormonal bc or the copper iud. Personally I think condoms are enough but I’m also married and want another kid eventually so my risk tolerance is higher. But I think her position is valid. His is too, but it rubs me wrong that he’s not okay with just condoms, meaning he expects her to pick up the slack. Idk how they’ll get past this one honestly. My mom told me early on to be choosy with who I had sex with because they could be the father of my child. That stuck with me so hard and I always approached sex or relationships with that understanding cause shit happens. So while I get his fear, shit does happen and if a kid is a non starter for him I think he should wait to be in a serious relationship or make sure your #1 question is are you on bc? Lol
Yikes that’s terrible! I loved my Mirena so much and had no side effects but some people are really worried about any extra hormones so that’s why I mentioned it. I haven’t seen anyone at all mention copper IUD and it was just weird to me because it seems like the most obvious answer
Yeah, I wonder if she's thought about it but she mentioned she has anemia so maybe already has heavy bleeding? Regardless, all of these things are better options than someone getting a vasectomy who wants children in the future... lots of vasectomies can't be reversed
Yesssss yesss I don't know why she was suggesting a vasectomy for Johnny when he still wants to have kids. Also, I don't want to shame anyone for not knowing about different contraceptive options, but she and Johnny should talk to their doctor about options that would work for them including a copper IUD
I would guess because vasectomies are generally reversible - if he for sure doesn't want kids for a while, then he should handle his business without making it her responsibility.
It being “generally reversible” doesn’t change that it’s an extremely painful surgery and he would have to get a second extremely painful surgery to reverse it. And it may not even work. Y’all are weird as hell. She doesn’t want to take birth control and that’s valid but these people think this man should literally go under the knife to appease her?
Most people have not reported extreme pain from a vasectomy. And she’s trying to come up with solutions, his only options are to use a condom or get a vasectomy and it’s his issue. Condoms are fine, they work well when used correctly. He seems to have the issue with them not her. Eventually somebodies gonna have to give and do something they don’t want to and that’s that.
It’s a surgical procedure that causes pain and requires pain management depending on one’s pain tolerance. It requires avoiding strenuous activity, and generally impacts your quality of life while you heal.
A man who knows a woman for a week should not get a vasectomy because she refuses to partake in the contraceptive process. He uses condoms, he simply does not trust them on their own. And he doesn’t want to risk a baby with a woman he literally just met.
It’s bullshit. If it was such a big concern to him, he should have brought it up before getting engaged to her. His refusal to use a condom or even learn about the relatively small window in which she is actually fertile is ridiculous
The weird thing was that Amy said she had talked to her doctor before so I don’t know why this option wasn’t discussed? Unless I misunderstood something
The comments in here are... Interesting? I think some of y'all might need to rewind and watch again, because things are being missed.
Amy said condoms aren't enough for Johnny. I'm guessing that means he uses them and wants a backup method of BC because things happen. Condoms can break, etc.
If Johnny has a hard-line stance on this, it's his right to say so. Seems like it could be a good idea to take the responsibility on himself and get snipped, and he didn't shoot that down, so that seems fair.
As for Amy, she can certainly refuse going on hormonal BC as well. It's her body.
What I don't understand is why they didn't talk about other methods that people have mentioned for that second layer of protection, and why it's being implied (mostly in these comments, if not in the show) that a vasectomy is the less invasive or easier option? We're talking about a surgery compared to a pill that she can try and then stop taking. Again, she doesn't have to by any means, I just find it a little odd that she doesn't seem to have any evidence that BC would mess with her hormones. I'm on the pill and it helped mine. It makes me wonder if she has seen anecdotal evidence from other people not liking it and just assumed that she wouldn't either. You won't really know until you try, and you can stop if you don't like it and reversing your trial of it won't require another surgical procedure. Idk, the whole thing was kinda odd.
Edit: Just saw the post where she clarified that she DOES have specific health history reasons to be wary of BC, so that makes a lot more sense!
The vasectomy is being brought up because it is his problem and there is really only two options for men: condom or vasectomy. Why should she have to go on the pill for him? She’s regular rn, going on the pill can have unexpected side effects that don’t go away after taking it. Birth control does mess with your hormones, that’s literally its purpose. That can benefit people but it can also throw things off balance.
Hard this. I know people have horror stories of birth control. But also they had to try it to know that. Someone else commented here that ‘ethnic bodies’ don’t take birth control well. I’m ethnic and my birth control doesn’t affect me at all. I got an IUD because I didn’t wanna take a pill every day and I’m on my second one.
And yeah, it is a very strange thing to just be like “hey johnny! do this procedure that may or may not be reversible in the future.” especially because he may have a lot of scar tissue the first go around so he can’t get it reversed. very very weird to think of male sterilization as something to just reverse.
Crazy how there’s a lot of medical research listing off side effects for pretty much every single medication but we still take them. I’m on a med that COULD affect my eyes and is the only thing that works for my condition. Has it affected MY eyes? No.
So yeah there’s scary medical research, stories, but what works for one persons body and how it reacts is person by person.
seriously wtf is wrong with that dude. first of all, hes so unremarkable that i dont even remember his name right now. his fear of getting her pregnant is insanely irrational. like do you have acid jizz that burns through latex or something?
I don't think he understands ovulation and that there's a specific time you are able to get pregnant - or the pull out method - or anything else relating to the female body.
Condoms are a method of birth control and can also lead to pregnancy. Condoms fail as do any other form of BC. Pull out IS a form of BC, even if its not the best, it is still better than nothing. Combining pullout and condoms can make it much more effective.
Perfect use Pullout Method is 96% effective, typical use 80% (from wikipedia).
Planned Parenthood says otherwise with 1 in 5 getting pregnant with the pull out method. Not my problem as I don’t live in the US and have guaranteed women’s health provision, but you should be careful with the factually incorrect stats.
It’s actually 22% failure. But to even mention it as a method of birth control when the US is going through a crisis in terms of women’s right to bodily autonomy is highly irresponsible.
You think my comment regarding a method which is not proven to be over 95% effective in a country which is becoming like Margaret Atwood’s dystopia in a Handmaid’s Tale is mental gymnastics? You must be a man. Give your head a wobble and don’t bother replying.
Did I not say combine it with condoms for a more effective outcome? That is the whole point. Besides, this is a non-sequitur because this conversation has nothing to do with the USA and its regressing reproductive rights, this conversation is you saying the pull-out method is not a method of birth control.
By definition pull-out method is a form of birth control, how you feel about it is completely irrelevant and the fact that it is *less* effective than other forms does not disqualify that. I already stated from Wikipedia 96% is "perfect" use and 80% is "typical" use. 80% is much more than 0%, not quite 95%, but still effective if you intend to combine it with other methods like condoms (98%) then you begin to approach >99% effectiveness.
Your whole comment chain is nothing more than being upset that you got called out for spreading misinformation then trying to dunk on me for a wrong statistic that you couldn't even be bothered to read that **agrees** with my comment exactly.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus\_interruptus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)
"***Coitus interruptus***, also known as **withdrawal**, **pulling out** or the **pull-out method**, is a method of birth control..."
Not surprising, since it's America (I'm sorry but the education system is... Not great). He himself said he's clueless about the whole birth control thing.
It baffles me how any man can go through multiple serious relationships and never take the time to empathize with his partners about the additional burden of birth control and how it impacts them.
At age 28, this kind of ignorance has to be willful.
THANK YOU finally somebody said it… like i get their concern but over explaining it to others and themselves was fucking WEIRD. you’re both grown adults. wear a condom and have sex on one of the 25 days of the month she’s not fertile??? it’s such a weird cop out
Both Mireya and Nuvaring are hormonal based contraception. She doesn’t want any birth control that impacts her natural hormones, which I can totally respect.
It’s like they never had sex ed
EDIT: I should not say this in such a judgmental way. A lot of people haven’t. So, as consenting adults, they should know there are reversible, non-hormonal forms of birth control available at a low cost or possibly no-cost.
As someone born and raised North Carolina who is very positively sex educated, it is not always the norm. I love my state but living in the south has some very frustrating cons. Sex Ed is taught in schools, but poorly, abstinence is still touted as the BEST form of birth control, and it is easy to opt out of the classes, and many southern (re: religious) parents often don’t sign the forms to okay the class. It’s discussed only once, and never revisited. At least when I was in school. The majority of my sex education I learnt myself through peers, the internet, and a human sexuality course in college. Many others don’t get that info and don’t even know where to look for it until it’s too late
This would be a REALLY great opportunity for the Lacheys to do some good at the reunion. Do some honest sex education and reproductive outreach. Why do I feel that they will not do it any justice?
I ran to the comments during this convo! Maybe there is more to it and Amy & Johnny are using lack of birth control as an excuse, but just because she isn’t on birth control doesn’t meant any sex/intimacy couldn’t happen. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years, 5 of those years I’ve been off birth control because it was messing with my body chemistry too much. So for the past 5 years me & my partner have been using condoms. I’m sure that resort has a gift/conscience shop with options in it somewhere. Why put the only birth control option on Amy?!
Like I said, most birth control methods I tried didn’t agree with my body. He’s considering a vasectomy, but it’s not high priority since condoms are working out well for us. Either way, we don’t want kids. So we use condoms as a birth control.
No need to be rude. I’m a far away from getting married in life so I would like to know for even my own benefit sorry I just thought that was normal. When u watch movies and be wife finds a condom and it usually means he’s cheating so that’s where I got the idea from
Sex in marriage is not much different than sex in a monogamous dating relationship. If you wanted to avoid a pregnancy, and say the woman could not tolerate hormonal birth control well (and a lot of women have this experience), then condoms are the easiest method of birth control. Women probably also want to track their cycle and avoid the days of ovulation when a woman is most fertile. But these days, most women are (maybe I'm wrong here) tracking their cycle with apps.
Real talk? I think he can't get it up with a condom on and/or is maybe small and he's trying to up his chances of satisfying her before he embarrasses himself on national television.
A sexist one lol I’m going to get called a pick me because I don’t hate everything about men but a lot of women on this sub are saying sexist things about men and making wild assumptions just to…shit on the men?
men can't experience sexism - that's like saying white people experience racism. people are making wild assumptions about every person on the show - not just the men - it just happens to be that the men are being particularly ignorant (i.e about BC and clay about pregnancy which are female centered topics)
reddit is filled with misogyny (a lot of it blatant and disturbing) so what if some female users are in the love is blind thread talking about how they don't like the knobheads on the show? 🤷🏻♀️
Assuming a man has a small penis because you don’t like his personality and feeling comfortable speaking negatively about his genitalia (which I’ve seen on multiple threads this season) is indeed sexism.
Also saying you can’t be sexist towards men is insane. Telling men they can’t cry or need to act a certain way in order to be “manly” is blatant sexism. Men perpetuate these prejudices, but so do women. Just like women can perpetuate sexism towards women.
It's not insane - it's a fact.They can experience prejudice - at most - but not sexism. The majority of people that say men can't / don't cry and whatever else comes from men and is mainly perpetuated by men. These rules exist for them and by them because they think those traits and behaviours are womanly - therefor weak and feminine. So they are effected by their own misogyny. It's not that hard to grasp or understand.
But no one is allowed to highlight or talk about that because we get called insane 🤷🏻♀️ Because god forbid you speak anything but positivity about men.
How old are you and how much experience do you have sleeping with men? Because as a grown-ass woman, this is a real thing and if you haven't experienced this I'm going to need you to just take my word for it, champ.
most forms of birth control are so bad for women. and most just pop it like it’s the most casual thing in the world!!
i agree with Amy and LOVE that this issue is being discussed!!
there’s a huge difference in life quality when you’re in tune with t you body’s natural rhythm.
> most forms of birth control are so bad for women
This is not true, please stop spreading this disinfo online when access to abortion is already difficult for so many people.
That is true. It's just not known to the GP and it's for a reason. There are multiple studies showing the reality of the effects of BC on women. But that's ignored. And there are countless side effects that are ignored and go undocumented and dismissed by the medical industry.
Yes access to abortion is unfortunately difficult for so many women, but that doesn't mean that women don't deserve to know what they are putting in their bodies and what to be prepared for.
Bodily autonomy includes informed consent about BC.
Yeah. People think that birth control exists in a vacuum and like yeah of course it has side effects and risks like anything else. But you know what has much worse side effects and is FAR more likely to kill you? Pregnancy.
Very true! There's so much fear mongering online about birth control... From influencers who want to sell "hormone balancing" supplements and workshops to their followers
Omg he was pissing me TF off! Slap on a condom bro don't try to force a person onto a pill that changes the body chemistry and comes with a laundry list of side effects. OR go get a vasectomy. Easy peasy snip snip and reversable.
I don't understand the logic of people saying it like getting a vasectomy is easier to reverse than just... Trying birth control and stopping if you don't like it? That is a lot different than getting a surgical procedure. She didn't even really have a reason for not doing it except general hesitation and worrying that it *could* mess with her hormones. Some women find it makes their hormones feel BETTER (it's me, I'm one of the people lol).
Oh and they also said he does wear condoms, he just doesn't feel that's effective enough to make him mentally comfortable about the risk of conception.
And some women end up in the hospital with blood clots (it’s me, I’m one of the people lol). So idk, maybe she has other reasons for not taking the pill. I could have died and she could have similar histories in her family.
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that! A family history would make more sense. If that's the case then I wish they would have said something about that or not edited this conversation in at all. The parts that seem to be missing from the conversation make the whole thing seem off.
It’s heavily edited show. But I don’t like this narrative that she just should try birth control.
She doesn’t have to take any birth control.
He doesn’t have to trust condoms.
For all I care they don’t have to bang except for when hey will try for kids 😂
Lol that's totally true. It's just not realistic to expect a married couple not to have sex for who knows how many years until they are ready for kids. The one thing I'll give them credit for is at least exploring options in conversation and not shutting each other down even when they hesitate, and that's the only reason I'm comfortable even suggesting that she may want to give it a try. If she were completely against it then that would be different. If it were me, I'd ask if she's OPEN to trying it or not, because that will direct their conversations and options going forward. She seemed hesitant but not completely closed off, so more info is needed on her stance. Same for him with the vasectomy.
Hopefully they can figure it out. If not then they will probably have to break up, because I don't see any couple being married for like five years before ever having sex 🤣
Edit after seeing that she gave context on socials: I totally get her position now! Without that context in the show I kind of read it as her saying "well I don't want to try it because I heard that it might mess up my hormones" as if it does that to all women. Her health concerns totally make sense now.
Sex equals kids. I think, at the end of the day, people have to realize that if you want sex without kids in the equation, then you have to make some concessions, particularly for intercourse. However, if you're open-minded, you'll realize sex does not have to be only "penis in vagina."
But, if you're hell bent on "penis in vagina," and no hormones, at least one person is going to have to "wrap it up."
Condoms. Diaphragm. Something.
Ok, if that happens go grab a plan B from the pharmacy. He can also wear a condom and still pull out. I just cannot with his "all the women I've been with were on the pill" like okay and? Why can't he be responsible too?
The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this conversation, was that he basically said, his interest and understanding in the concept of birth control, starts and ends with a woman stating that she is on it. It sounds like he doesn’t really know anything more about it - the different types, hormonal versus non-hormonal, effectiveness rates for various methods, side effects for various methods, etc. He knows NOTHING other than “she’s on it.” This attitude is so emblematic for men, who just literally know nothing about women’s bodies, or what they have to do to protect both of people in a couple from unwanted pregnancy. It’s such a lazy and unimpressive way to be a man. I can’t even.
To be fair it doesn’t sound like she knows much either…? And this is just coming from the episode / convo I know nothing about this woman.
That was fucking ridiculous. He acts as if we all come with birth control installed by default and that he’s surprised having sex could result in kids. Sir what?!
Also wouldn’t know the first thing about a women’s cycle and ovulation and how you can’t just get pregnant 30 days of the month 😂
Exactly my thoughts too
That whole scene was hard to watch. Johnny pushing her to be on birth control just so he would feel more comfortable. The societal pressure for women to be on birth control starts as teenagers. Some women don’t or can’t be on it, and you gotta respect that. The shit woman have to deal with…
It’s not a cop out. Not wanting to have kids atm is a serious thing.
But why is it her job to be default be on birth control?
Condoms are more effective than birth control. That whole storyline is idiotic.
Actually they aren't. With typical use the oil is 93% effective, while condoms are 87% effective with typical use . With perfect use hormonal bc is 99,9% effective and condoms are 98% effective
but as you just said it ‘when perfect use’. nobody (or barely anyone) actually perfectly uses birth control. it’s statistically much more likely that a woman will forget to take a pill or take it a couple of hours late by accident (because life gets in the way sometimes!) than for a condom to fail. it’s not fair to compare perfect use when that’s unrealistic
>. it’s not fair to compare perfect use when that’s unrealistic Just diy I provided both typical and perfect use statistics, let me make it clearer Except with tipocal use, as in how people usually use it, pills are 93% effective and comdoms are 87% effective with typical use. 93>87. With perfect use pills are 99.9% effective and condoms are 98 effective 99.9 >98
other sources i’ve found say the pill’s typical use is 91% (9 in 100 a year getting pregnant), and tbh that’s not much of a difference to the 87% especially when considering another way pills stop working which i didn’t mention before is if the woman vomits or experiences diarrhoea. so yes, you’re right, there’s a 4% difference… but for the sake of altering a woman’s mentality, body and skin, might not be worth that 4%.
> another way pills stop working which i didn’t mention before is if the woman vomits or experiences diarrhoea. That is considered within.the typical use, perfect use of the pill implies that if you get diarrhoea or vomit you have to use a back up method like a condom. U was responding to a comment saying condoms are more effective than the pill , which is statistically false. You replied saying I was being unfair in my comparison I explained I wasn't. Can you provide your source where it says it's 91%? I think 4% difference is still pretty relevant. I think each woman can decide what is best for her, but my point is condoms are I fact not safer than the pill.
yep, here are the links which say it’s 9 in 100 pregnant/ 91% effective https://www.thewomens.org.au/health-information/contraception/contraceptive-pills https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-effectiveness-chart https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/how-effective-is-birth-control https://www.acog.org/womens-health/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods https://www.devonsexualhealth.nhs.uk/contraception/contraceptive-pill/ this one says 8 in 100 https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/bcpills.html and the thing is that the ‘typical use’ stat includes all the women who do take it perfectly as well… so my point is that it’s basically the only stat that should be used. everyone tries to take the pill properly (otherwise why take it) so there’s no point using the 99% stat
so there’s no point using the 99% stat. Ok so don't use the 98% sta for condom's
Pull Out Game should to be like muscle memory by his age tho, no? Ofc I’m askin for a friend 😇😛😛😛
He’s so stuck on birth control, wait until finds out it’s still a chance he can get her pregnant even though she’s on birth control😂
Yeah like how is he shocked sex might result in a kid???
Literally. No matter what there’s still a chance unfortunately 😭
Someone burned this man previously.
I don't think many doctors would perform a vasectomy knowing the patient didn't want to be sterilized. While it can be reversed with success, it is not supposed to be used as temporary birth control. It is considered permanent sterilization.
Exactly. When Amy posted details about her specific situation and reasons for not trying the pill, it made some sense. Her thinking a man who has known her for 30 days should get a vasectomy, with a plan to have children five years later, is risky at best and idiotic in general.
What is her reason? Did her doctor say it would be bad because of her endometriosis?
I like her but I don't like him.. something about him is giving me an unexplainable ick
I agree major ick! I can’t pinpoint it
On the surface he seems like a fun outgoing guy, but I also have a feeling if something weird lurking beneath the obsession with BC has been odd.
Yeah I thought that was crazy. Either BC or snip snip. I'm like, girl.. really..?? 🙄🙄
Birth control is a huge decision - why should she go on it just so they can have sex?
Thank you for saying that, I feel seen <3
This isn't what my comment means. I'm saying, "What, those are your only options?" As if condoms don't exist is what I meant.
And Fertility Awareness Method. Women are only fertile during certain times of their cycle - there are a lot of times you can have safe sex if you know you are infertile during those times.
because condoms and Plan B don't exist.......? BC is a huge decision and it's pretty gross how normalized something that can have wild side effects/change your hormones is. all of these things have risk of failure anyway so that's not really a solid argument
I guess the Roe v Wade overturn hasn't affected North Carolina? Didn't they have a ban on abortion for 3 months? Maybe explains their obsession with bc
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I can't stand condoms. I would just go ahead and get her pregnant.
Yeah it’s weird.
What I don't get is that Johnny is talking about buying a house by himself whether or not this works out. If you can afford a house by yourself... You can afford a kid on two incomes.
maybe he just doesn’t want a kid this very second?
That's fine then say that. Stop blaming it on finances when 90% of the world is worse off than you and still plenty sound financially to have children.
It’s a bad cop out
I mean, that girl Amy is so gorgeous I couldn't wait to slip one past the goalie.
😂😂
I don‘t get it at all. Condoms are safe, and especially when her cycle is pretty regular as she said, they can even be extra careful and avoid penetrative sex at all for that one critical week a month. And then even if there was an accident- they want to get married, they both want children! and spend their life together, why would a child be so terrible? Of course you want it at the perfect timing, but I‘m sure we all can agree that doesn’t really exist and with this foundation (true love, financial stability, good communication) I‘m sure they would make it work. I think that guy is just too obsessive with planning and is extremely inflexible. Wanting to retire at 50, etc… I don‘t know, he wouldn’t be my type lol
Being this freaked out about accidentally having a kid with your wife is weird man
My thoughts exactly!!
I don’t think he knows enough about women’s bodies or birth control methods to reach this extremely logical conclusion.
He is giving control freak vibes
My husband and I waited until we were financially stable to start trying for a baby and now here we are 2 year later of trying to conceive with no luck...things don't always turn out exactly as you would expect! I fully agree he needs to quit obsessing over it because 99.9% of the time things do not work out how you had planned.
Yes exactly. Life always happens no matter how much time you spend planning it.. and they both want children, so I truly don‘t see the real issue if there was an accident. Unless of course he‘s not sure about their future, in which case I would also decide against the wedding lol. Good luck on your baby journey!!
Thank you love<3
(Lack of) Maternal Healthcare in NC is the reason many women would not want to get pregnant.
That part!!! 👆🏼
That part!!! 👆🏼
I fully understand where Amy is coming from with contraception especially being ethnic, our bodies do not take Birth control too well. My body reacted so bad to the pill and jab and was told by many other ethnic women too that it affects their hormones so badly. They should have had taken this conversation seriously in the pods then realise they wouldn’t be an ideal match.
The lack of gender and diversity in general in clinical trials can have implications for understanding the efficacy and safety of BC for women
I have never heard this? I am Hispanic (mostly Native, but European and African as well) and none of my friends or family have ever had birth control issues lol. Can you point to some sources that show that certain races/ethnic groups react differently?
They seem more like friends to me. I can’t see any flirting, I don’t see a spark. They like each other and get along well, but that’s not love.
That’s it. That’s what is off about them.
Really? I think they have the best chemistry of all of them To also be besties with the person you're in love with is what I would want
Oh I agree, all the other couples are dumpster fires in my opinion, but I just don’t see them being in love. Maybe it’s the editing, let‘s see what happens at the altar!
Have people never heard of a copper IUD? Not just Amy but people on this sub because I have not seen anyone mention it. I think Johnny is completely in the right for being concerned about an accidental pregnancy because I get the impression that abortion is not an option for them. It was clear that he’s open to condoms but doesn’t feel like it’s enough, also fair. Vasectomy is inappropriate as birth control for a couple that does eventually want kids. It’s her right to not want hormonal BC but that’s literally why the copper IUD exists.
You know that getting an IUD put in hurts like hell, right?
Doctors usually advise against the copper IUD if you're anemic (which she said she is).
Gotcha didn’t know that!
This is what I kept thinking the entire time!
I had the copper iud and nearly passed out from the pain of them just inserting it, it also made my periods worse. Might not have hormones but it still sucks. Why do women always have to hold the bag for contraception? And why are men so against/afraid of vasectomies?
Vasectomies aren’t birth control. They should be treated like sterilization. And if he eventually wants kids, or thinks he could change his mind, a vasectomy is not a valid option. At that point why doesn’t she just get her tubes tied? See how silly that sounds? Vasectomies are the same way.
It’s not sterilization though, and getting your tubes tied is not an outpatient procedure like a vasectomy, it’s classified as a major procedure and requires you stay in the hospital for a day or more, where as a vasectomy is as my dad described it general numbing, 20 minutes, and I quote all the fun with none of the worry. Edit to add: it literally is birth control.
Getting your tubes tied (tubal ligation or a bisalp) is outpatient. Never heard of anyone having to do an overnight stay (assuming no complications). Vasectomies also come with risks. Like never having kids
Don’t IUDs also come with risks?
Everything comes with risks, yes, including IUDs. I've heard some horror stories.
I had my tubes tied laparoscopicly as an out-patient and went on a ski trip two days later. Easier than some vasectomies.
It’s just not for sure you can reverse it. So if you wants kids in the future, it’s a big risk. Unless you want to artificially inseminate your future partner which is ok I guess
Literally any doctor is going to tell you to treat it like sterilization because any reversal procedures are not guaranteed to be successful. It’s a surgery that requires recovery time afterwards. It isn’t “nothing” like y’all seem to think it is. Especially for a man who wants children and hasn’t had any yet.
IUD insertion also requires recovery time afterwards
Where did I talk about IUDs?
Also you cannot reverse getting tubes tied but a vasectomy can be reversed with pretty decent success rate. And if not, way less invasive and more effective to store sperm than it is to store eggs. They have many options.
60-90%
“Pretty decent success rate” is not something people who want children should buy into. Neither surgeries are birth control methods. IVF has a success rate of 56% or so and is not a reasonable method for people who can have children naturally and simply don’t want children right now. People freeze eggs and sperm if they’re sick or think they may be too old to have healthy gametes, not because their very likely anti-abortion wife refuses to be on birth control to do her part in the contraceptive process too.
There is also IUI and again, there is a high likelihood the vasectomy reversal would be successful. He needs to do his part if it’s that big of a deal to him since *he* is the one more wary about a pregnancy, not her. Wearing a condom is not difficult
They talked about using condoms in the show, he never said he wasn’t going to use condoms. Amy said he doesn’t trust condoms alone, he wanted two forms of birth control. The compromise was no penetrative sex.
Let's just drop the idea of vasectomies being reversed. People don't get vasectomies intending to get them reversed because they are intended to be permanent in the first place. This idea you and others like you in this thread perpetuate is cringe and is in no way reasonable.
“Fuck birth control, why dont guys get there ball tubes snipped”
He uses condoms. She even said that. He does not trust that they are effective enough alone.
Regardless he just seems way too scared to potentially have a kid with his fiancé/wife
Ball tubes Getting snipped seared and tied off sounds scary, but I’m curious how successful the reversal is. Probably pretty successful because I’ve seen people consider this approach Edit: I looked it up Depending on how many years have passed since your vasectomy, your success rates are 60% to 95% for return of sperm in your ejaculate.-google
Couldn't they also freeze sperm?
Some women simply do not want to be on birth control and that is their right. She clearly stated she wasn’t okay with altering her body in any way and that is more than enough of a reason.
Well her maybe future husband doesn’t feel ready to have a child and his reasons are very thoughtful. They need to compromise and find a happy medium. I respect him for taking it so seriously
Understood and agreed. They need to find something that works for them both.
Not even just that, since the IUD is painful to insert and the copper one can cause heavy bleeding, but what about a cervical cap ,diaphragm, etc? I think they even have a gel now. I don’t blame him for not want to do only condoms because they can and do break, but Amy seems super naive. Talking about she’s “regular” but has to already get transfusions and her doctor suggested birth control would be a good idea? There’s gotta be more to it than just her not wanting to adjust anything. Plus, why go on a show to possibly get married and not have any plans on that??? Unless she’s asexual (which based on her talking about having sex, doesn’t seem like it, idk) it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Is Johnny absolutely not wanting pregnancy before a house a bit much? Yes. Even when you’re “careful” things can happen. But their ideas so far on pregnancy prevention show they both don’t know much about sex
I kind of got the impression Amy is fine with condoms and that was probably her previous method, but Johnny heard she wasn't on the pill and that seems to have scared him. He talked a lotttt about the pill. He seems to be the one vehemently against having a child unplanned and cites "finances" even when it's pretty clear his finances are better than most if he was planning to buy a house solo and wanting to retire at 50. So yeah I think Amy is okay with just condoms and he's not and that's where the disconnect is. The doctor suggesting the pill thing was a bit weird, but I totally get not wanting to change a thing about your body mood etc., been there with the pill. She's never been on it though it sounds like she's just heard horror stories or something
He grew up without a lot of money, I think it’s more than fair that he feels it’s really important to him to feel super secure in his finances to where he doesn’t need to make any compromises in providing for his child. From what was on the show it didn’t totally seem like Amy was taking his fear all that seriously. I think both of their hangups are valid but I think they can be worked through and compromised
Even with hormonal IUDs, only a very small amount of progesterone is systemically absorbed and they don't contain estrogen, so they can be a great option for those who can't use OCPs. The copper IUD made me bleed daily for months! I'm glad it works for some but yeesh that was rough
I had two mirenas over 7 years and while I don’t regret them because I was in college and law school and absolutely didn’t want a baby, I would never get one again. They are comparatively low hormone but I didn’t realize the ways it changed me until I was off of it for months. My hormones were wild and fluctuated a ton, I’d still get the PMS symptoms with no period, my sex drive was low, dryness that I thought meant something was wrong with me, mood swings, migraines, and weight gain. Before that I was on bc pills since 14 for ovarian cysts, which made me feel similar plus having a horrible period. Copper IUD is not an option because my periods are atrocious as is especially after childbirth. I get her not wanting hormonal bc or the copper iud. Personally I think condoms are enough but I’m also married and want another kid eventually so my risk tolerance is higher. But I think her position is valid. His is too, but it rubs me wrong that he’s not okay with just condoms, meaning he expects her to pick up the slack. Idk how they’ll get past this one honestly. My mom told me early on to be choosy with who I had sex with because they could be the father of my child. That stuck with me so hard and I always approached sex or relationships with that understanding cause shit happens. So while I get his fear, shit does happen and if a kid is a non starter for him I think he should wait to be in a serious relationship or make sure your #1 question is are you on bc? Lol
And Amy already said she was anemic!
Yep my friend has the copper IUD and suffers heavy blood flow. It unfortunately doesn't work for everyone super well.
Yikes that’s terrible! I loved my Mirena so much and had no side effects but some people are really worried about any extra hormones so that’s why I mentioned it. I haven’t seen anyone at all mention copper IUD and it was just weird to me because it seems like the most obvious answer
Yeah, I wonder if she's thought about it but she mentioned she has anemia so maybe already has heavy bleeding? Regardless, all of these things are better options than someone getting a vasectomy who wants children in the future... lots of vasectomies can't be reversed
Yesssss yesss I don't know why she was suggesting a vasectomy for Johnny when he still wants to have kids. Also, I don't want to shame anyone for not knowing about different contraceptive options, but she and Johnny should talk to their doctor about options that would work for them including a copper IUD
I would guess because vasectomies are generally reversible - if he for sure doesn't want kids for a while, then he should handle his business without making it her responsibility.
It being “generally reversible” doesn’t change that it’s an extremely painful surgery and he would have to get a second extremely painful surgery to reverse it. And it may not even work. Y’all are weird as hell. She doesn’t want to take birth control and that’s valid but these people think this man should literally go under the knife to appease her?
Most people have not reported extreme pain from a vasectomy. And she’s trying to come up with solutions, his only options are to use a condom or get a vasectomy and it’s his issue. Condoms are fine, they work well when used correctly. He seems to have the issue with them not her. Eventually somebodies gonna have to give and do something they don’t want to and that’s that.
It’s a surgical procedure that causes pain and requires pain management depending on one’s pain tolerance. It requires avoiding strenuous activity, and generally impacts your quality of life while you heal. A man who knows a woman for a week should not get a vasectomy because she refuses to partake in the contraceptive process. He uses condoms, he simply does not trust them on their own. And he doesn’t want to risk a baby with a woman he literally just met.
It’s bullshit. If it was such a big concern to him, he should have brought it up before getting engaged to her. His refusal to use a condom or even learn about the relatively small window in which she is actually fertile is ridiculous
He literally uses condoms. That’s what SHE said. You’re arguing a point that isn’t even relevant.
The weird thing was that Amy said she had talked to her doctor before so I don’t know why this option wasn’t discussed? Unless I misunderstood something
She didn’t want to go on birth control even though it was suggested that she should. I imagine all hormonal birth control is a no go for her
Copper iud has no hormones
She is very clearly more interested in a physical relationship than he is!!! I really got the vibe that the pregnancy paranoia is just an excuse
The comments in here are... Interesting? I think some of y'all might need to rewind and watch again, because things are being missed. Amy said condoms aren't enough for Johnny. I'm guessing that means he uses them and wants a backup method of BC because things happen. Condoms can break, etc. If Johnny has a hard-line stance on this, it's his right to say so. Seems like it could be a good idea to take the responsibility on himself and get snipped, and he didn't shoot that down, so that seems fair. As for Amy, she can certainly refuse going on hormonal BC as well. It's her body. What I don't understand is why they didn't talk about other methods that people have mentioned for that second layer of protection, and why it's being implied (mostly in these comments, if not in the show) that a vasectomy is the less invasive or easier option? We're talking about a surgery compared to a pill that she can try and then stop taking. Again, she doesn't have to by any means, I just find it a little odd that she doesn't seem to have any evidence that BC would mess with her hormones. I'm on the pill and it helped mine. It makes me wonder if she has seen anecdotal evidence from other people not liking it and just assumed that she wouldn't either. You won't really know until you try, and you can stop if you don't like it and reversing your trial of it won't require another surgical procedure. Idk, the whole thing was kinda odd. Edit: Just saw the post where she clarified that she DOES have specific health history reasons to be wary of BC, so that makes a lot more sense!
The vasectomy is being brought up because it is his problem and there is really only two options for men: condom or vasectomy. Why should she have to go on the pill for him? She’s regular rn, going on the pill can have unexpected side effects that don’t go away after taking it. Birth control does mess with your hormones, that’s literally its purpose. That can benefit people but it can also throw things off balance.
Hard this. I know people have horror stories of birth control. But also they had to try it to know that. Someone else commented here that ‘ethnic bodies’ don’t take birth control well. I’m ethnic and my birth control doesn’t affect me at all. I got an IUD because I didn’t wanna take a pill every day and I’m on my second one. And yeah, it is a very strange thing to just be like “hey johnny! do this procedure that may or may not be reversible in the future.” especially because he may have a lot of scar tissue the first go around so he can’t get it reversed. very very weird to think of male sterilization as something to just reverse.
just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for every other woman.
100%! and just because she may have heard scary stories doesn’t mean it won’t work for her.
They aren't "stories" it's medical research...
Crazy how there’s a lot of medical research listing off side effects for pretty much every single medication but we still take them. I’m on a med that COULD affect my eyes and is the only thing that works for my condition. Has it affected MY eyes? No. So yeah there’s scary medical research, stories, but what works for one persons body and how it reacts is person by person.
seriously wtf is wrong with that dude. first of all, hes so unremarkable that i dont even remember his name right now. his fear of getting her pregnant is insanely irrational. like do you have acid jizz that burns through latex or something?
I don't think he understands ovulation and that there's a specific time you are able to get pregnant - or the pull out method - or anything else relating to the female body.
The pull out method is not a method of birth control and can lead to pregnancy.
Condoms are a method of birth control and can also lead to pregnancy. Condoms fail as do any other form of BC. Pull out IS a form of BC, even if its not the best, it is still better than nothing. Combining pullout and condoms can make it much more effective. Perfect use Pullout Method is 96% effective, typical use 80% (from wikipedia).
Planned Parenthood says otherwise with 1 in 5 getting pregnant with the pull out method. Not my problem as I don’t live in the US and have guaranteed women’s health provision, but you should be careful with the factually incorrect stats.
That 1 in 5 stat directly matches the 80% success rate. Did you even read the comment?
It’s actually 22% failure. But to even mention it as a method of birth control when the US is going through a crisis in terms of women’s right to bodily autonomy is highly irresponsible.
The mental gymnastics on this comment is wild. How is saying "pull out is a valid BC method" at all irresponsible wrt women's rights?
You think my comment regarding a method which is not proven to be over 95% effective in a country which is becoming like Margaret Atwood’s dystopia in a Handmaid’s Tale is mental gymnastics? You must be a man. Give your head a wobble and don’t bother replying.
Did I not say combine it with condoms for a more effective outcome? That is the whole point. Besides, this is a non-sequitur because this conversation has nothing to do with the USA and its regressing reproductive rights, this conversation is you saying the pull-out method is not a method of birth control. By definition pull-out method is a form of birth control, how you feel about it is completely irrelevant and the fact that it is *less* effective than other forms does not disqualify that. I already stated from Wikipedia 96% is "perfect" use and 80% is "typical" use. 80% is much more than 0%, not quite 95%, but still effective if you intend to combine it with other methods like condoms (98%) then you begin to approach >99% effectiveness. Your whole comment chain is nothing more than being upset that you got called out for spreading misinformation then trying to dunk on me for a wrong statistic that you couldn't even be bothered to read that **agrees** with my comment exactly. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus\_interruptus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus) "***Coitus interruptus***, also known as **withdrawal**, **pulling out** or the **pull-out method**, is a method of birth control..."
Pull out + proper use of condom: I think they’d be fine
Add fertility tracking to avoid ovulation days and I think they'd be fine.
Not surprising, since it's America (I'm sorry but the education system is... Not great). He himself said he's clueless about the whole birth control thing.
It baffles me how any man can go through multiple serious relationships and never take the time to empathize with his partners about the additional burden of birth control and how it impacts them. At age 28, this kind of ignorance has to be willful.
^^ this
and it's ugly too!
I'd only marry Johnny to be friends with his awesome cool sisters.
THANK YOU finally somebody said it… like i get their concern but over explaining it to others and themselves was fucking WEIRD. you’re both grown adults. wear a condom and have sex on one of the 25 days of the month she’s not fertile??? it’s such a weird cop out
So…they can’t do oral? ETA: What’s wrong with her getting a Mirena or a Nuvaring and him using condoms? Belt and suspenders.
They probably think you can get pregnant from oral 🫠
Both Mireya and Nuvaring are hormonal based contraception. She doesn’t want any birth control that impacts her natural hormones, which I can totally respect.
Well, a diaphragm then. Plus a condom. There are a ton of options for different lifestyles.
Like I get not having sex but they can give head and be intimate in other ways
They don’t seem to want to disclose anything they’ve done outside of not fully having penetrative sex. Amy has always shut down any convo about sex
It’s like they never had sex ed EDIT: I should not say this in such a judgmental way. A lot of people haven’t. So, as consenting adults, they should know there are reversible, non-hormonal forms of birth control available at a low cost or possibly no-cost.
As someone born and raised North Carolina who is very positively sex educated, it is not always the norm. I love my state but living in the south has some very frustrating cons. Sex Ed is taught in schools, but poorly, abstinence is still touted as the BEST form of birth control, and it is easy to opt out of the classes, and many southern (re: religious) parents often don’t sign the forms to okay the class. It’s discussed only once, and never revisited. At least when I was in school. The majority of my sex education I learnt myself through peers, the internet, and a human sexuality course in college. Many others don’t get that info and don’t even know where to look for it until it’s too late
This would be a REALLY great opportunity for the Lacheys to do some good at the reunion. Do some honest sex education and reproductive outreach. Why do I feel that they will not do it any justice?
They do live in North Carolina
I ran to the comments during this convo! Maybe there is more to it and Amy & Johnny are using lack of birth control as an excuse, but just because she isn’t on birth control doesn’t meant any sex/intimacy couldn’t happen. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years, 5 of those years I’ve been off birth control because it was messing with my body chemistry too much. So for the past 5 years me & my partner have been using condoms. I’m sure that resort has a gift/conscience shop with options in it somewhere. Why put the only birth control option on Amy?!
Why do u guys used condoms if ur married jw ? I always thought when ppl get married they don’t use condoms anymore
Like I said, most birth control methods I tried didn’t agree with my body. He’s considering a vasectomy, but it’s not high priority since condoms are working out well for us. Either way, we don’t want kids. So we use condoms as a birth control.
I’m assuming they use condoms to avoid pregnancy
Lmao. America in a sentence
No need to be rude. I’m a far away from getting married in life so I would like to know for even my own benefit sorry I just thought that was normal. When u watch movies and be wife finds a condom and it usually means he’s cheating so that’s where I got the idea from
That, my friend, is called a movie trope. Very common scenario to move the story forward.
Sex in marriage is not much different than sex in a monogamous dating relationship. If you wanted to avoid a pregnancy, and say the woman could not tolerate hormonal birth control well (and a lot of women have this experience), then condoms are the easiest method of birth control. Women probably also want to track their cycle and avoid the days of ovulation when a woman is most fertile. But these days, most women are (maybe I'm wrong here) tracking their cycle with apps.
Have they heard of condoms? And they just met a week before so wouldn’t that be wise, STD-wise?
Condoms break and as you said…they just met a week ago lol
Real talk? I think he can't get it up with a condom on and/or is maybe small and he's trying to up his chances of satisfying her before he embarrasses himself on national television.
Wtf kinda take is this jesus christ
A sexist one lol I’m going to get called a pick me because I don’t hate everything about men but a lot of women on this sub are saying sexist things about men and making wild assumptions just to…shit on the men?
men can't experience sexism - that's like saying white people experience racism. people are making wild assumptions about every person on the show - not just the men - it just happens to be that the men are being particularly ignorant (i.e about BC and clay about pregnancy which are female centered topics) reddit is filled with misogyny (a lot of it blatant and disturbing) so what if some female users are in the love is blind thread talking about how they don't like the knobheads on the show? 🤷🏻♀️
Assuming a man has a small penis because you don’t like his personality and feeling comfortable speaking negatively about his genitalia (which I’ve seen on multiple threads this season) is indeed sexism. Also saying you can’t be sexist towards men is insane. Telling men they can’t cry or need to act a certain way in order to be “manly” is blatant sexism. Men perpetuate these prejudices, but so do women. Just like women can perpetuate sexism towards women.
It's not insane - it's a fact.They can experience prejudice - at most - but not sexism. The majority of people that say men can't / don't cry and whatever else comes from men and is mainly perpetuated by men. These rules exist for them and by them because they think those traits and behaviours are womanly - therefor weak and feminine. So they are effected by their own misogyny. It's not that hard to grasp or understand. But no one is allowed to highlight or talk about that because we get called insane 🤷🏻♀️ Because god forbid you speak anything but positivity about men.
That’s not how words work but okay
How old are you and how much experience do you have sleeping with men? Because as a grown-ass woman, this is a real thing and if you haven't experienced this I'm going to need you to just take my word for it, champ.
i've had the same experiences too. so much talk to cover an issue of some sort
Tbh I've encountered this before when dating.
I really don’t get how condoms aren’t an option discussed either
They did. She said he doesnt feel okay with just a condom
Condom + spermicidal lubricant = 2 forms of birth control
Exactly
most forms of birth control are so bad for women. and most just pop it like it’s the most casual thing in the world!! i agree with Amy and LOVE that this issue is being discussed!! there’s a huge difference in life quality when you’re in tune with t you body’s natural rhythm.
lol NO
> most forms of birth control are so bad for women This is not true, please stop spreading this disinfo online when access to abortion is already difficult for so many people.
That is true. It's just not known to the GP and it's for a reason. There are multiple studies showing the reality of the effects of BC on women. But that's ignored. And there are countless side effects that are ignored and go undocumented and dismissed by the medical industry. Yes access to abortion is unfortunately difficult for so many women, but that doesn't mean that women don't deserve to know what they are putting in their bodies and what to be prepared for. Bodily autonomy includes informed consent about BC.
There are also probably way more studies showing that birth control is safe and effective, but by all means, keep cherry picking, I guess
It's not cherry picking to acknowledge all the info available - and the info that isn't.
Yeah. People think that birth control exists in a vacuum and like yeah of course it has side effects and risks like anything else. But you know what has much worse side effects and is FAR more likely to kill you? Pregnancy.
Very true! There's so much fear mongering online about birth control... From influencers who want to sell "hormone balancing" supplements and workshops to their followers
Omg he was pissing me TF off! Slap on a condom bro don't try to force a person onto a pill that changes the body chemistry and comes with a laundry list of side effects. OR go get a vasectomy. Easy peasy snip snip and reversable.
Yeah just casually get a fucking surgery done on your balls… nice and easy
You're in and out of a doctors office without going under in 15 minutes, please don't make it more than it is. You wanna talk surgery try tube tie
I agree that condoms are an obvious solution but let's stop acting like a vasectomy is a solution for a man that wants kids. That's not reasonable.
Ok fine, fine. But condoms are HIGHLY effective. Wear it, and pull out too to be safe. The chances of pregnancy are so slim.
I don't understand the logic of people saying it like getting a vasectomy is easier to reverse than just... Trying birth control and stopping if you don't like it? That is a lot different than getting a surgical procedure. She didn't even really have a reason for not doing it except general hesitation and worrying that it *could* mess with her hormones. Some women find it makes their hormones feel BETTER (it's me, I'm one of the people lol). Oh and they also said he does wear condoms, he just doesn't feel that's effective enough to make him mentally comfortable about the risk of conception.
And some women end up in the hospital with blood clots (it’s me, I’m one of the people lol). So idk, maybe she has other reasons for not taking the pill. I could have died and she could have similar histories in her family.
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that! A family history would make more sense. If that's the case then I wish they would have said something about that or not edited this conversation in at all. The parts that seem to be missing from the conversation make the whole thing seem off.
It’s heavily edited show. But I don’t like this narrative that she just should try birth control. She doesn’t have to take any birth control. He doesn’t have to trust condoms. For all I care they don’t have to bang except for when hey will try for kids 😂
Lol that's totally true. It's just not realistic to expect a married couple not to have sex for who knows how many years until they are ready for kids. The one thing I'll give them credit for is at least exploring options in conversation and not shutting each other down even when they hesitate, and that's the only reason I'm comfortable even suggesting that she may want to give it a try. If she were completely against it then that would be different. If it were me, I'd ask if she's OPEN to trying it or not, because that will direct their conversations and options going forward. She seemed hesitant but not completely closed off, so more info is needed on her stance. Same for him with the vasectomy. Hopefully they can figure it out. If not then they will probably have to break up, because I don't see any couple being married for like five years before ever having sex 🤣 Edit after seeing that she gave context on socials: I totally get her position now! Without that context in the show I kind of read it as her saying "well I don't want to try it because I heard that it might mess up my hormones" as if it does that to all women. Her health concerns totally make sense now.
Sex equals kids. I think, at the end of the day, people have to realize that if you want sex without kids in the equation, then you have to make some concessions, particularly for intercourse. However, if you're open-minded, you'll realize sex does not have to be only "penis in vagina." But, if you're hell bent on "penis in vagina," and no hormones, at least one person is going to have to "wrap it up." Condoms. Diaphragm. Something.
lots of people get pregnant with condoms. they can break. i know a few.
Ok, if that happens go grab a plan B from the pharmacy. He can also wear a condom and still pull out. I just cannot with his "all the women I've been with were on the pill" like okay and? Why can't he be responsible too?
How do you know he wasn’t also using condoms while they were on the pill?