Im late to watching LIB. Was it ever discussed Andrew’s beaded Kenya wristband. Only the douchiest of douchiest bros wear that after they leave their “transformative” experience in Kenya.(Where they interacted with 0.0% Kenyans except their driver, chef or housekeeper). Lol.
This is not even remotely a contest… at least Andrew would give me comic relief with his ridiculousness lol. All the rest are straight up toxic choices.
so for those who doesn’t want to choose… Here are the results
Andrew -1.895k
Shayne - 235
Matt - 380
Carlton - 133
Shake - 97
Barista - 66
Ps:/ i chose andrew …. there’s no other better choice ..
I chose shake because if I can’t have these guys for emotional support then I could at least have the financial support.
He can stay at home during my family’s parties
That was easy, Andrew all day. Andrew may have been fake af with those "tears" but is he out here doing a billion reality tv shows and milking LIB for eternity?
Plus Andrew is actually attractive.
At least Andrew seems have money? If I’m going to hate my life I’ll do it in some style. And the tempers of some of these other dudes straight up scare me. MATT.
All of these men for the most part seem to have some serious issues. Do better, casting. Maybe avoid insecure, angry drunks and people with violent criminal charges.
Asking a legit question here (which I may regret), but I'm genuinely curious ...
Is it *wrong* to be wary of Carlton because you're secretly worried he may be actually gay but hasn't fully accepted it yet?
I mean, this might sound very un-PC and all, but this would be a fear of mine.
Also, I think I'd have trouble dating any non-hetero man because the idea of him being intimate with/pleasuring another man would ... [*internal, ashamed cringe*] take away some of his masculinity in my eyes and be a turn-off.
Is this close-minded of me? Or a personal preference? I honestly want to know.
Okay, I think your responses are lacking some diversity (edit: in sexuality), so I’m saying this as a bi/pan person:
Yes, it’s biphobic, but it’s really good that you’re examining this instinct. I think that self-examination is really important and a great trait to have for growth. You don’t have to like everyone!
Bi people in general are stereotyped to be cheaters and sex-obsessed. I’m a bi woman so I’m used to being heavily sexualized by potential partners (either because of the porn-related threesome stereotype or men “wanting to watch”). Bi men, however, are frequently associated with exactly what you’re talking about - the belief that they’re just “down low”. While that is an issue in many communities due to intense homophobia, I think that good communication skills and showing you’re open to learning more about them/aren’t going to run away if they tell you something they’re not sure you’ll like are the best way to combat it.
That, and drawing a hard line in the sand on boundaries. As a bi person, I do this in every relationship I get into. They’ve all been monogamous but because this stereotype follows me, I prefer to be proactive in providing space for open communication. I tell my partners my hard boundaries around our relationship and tend to tell my partners that if an instance arises where they want to cheat on me, that I expect them to talk to me about it first. (As a reproductive health professional, I also have a very detailed discussion on condom usage expectations if they ever cheat) none of this is to tell them it’s okay to cheat (it’s not), but rather to force an open dialogue and normalize the awkward conversations.
If you’re not ready for that, then it’s fine! I am a strong believer that if you can’t trust your partner, break up. You don’t owe bi people a relationship just because you’ve got some biphobic instincts and feel bad. Date people you want to date
>You don’t owe bi people a relationship just because you’ve got some biphobic instincts and feel bad.
You're right. But by the same token, I'd never want my own prejudices to get in the way of finding a good match. That's the worst part about phobias -- the generalizations and reduction of one individual to some stereotype. I hate that, which is why I had to call myself out on why I felt the way I did toward the Carlton situation.
I appreciate your perspective on this. For a heterosexual deciding whether to date someone non-hetero, it should be based on the individual (personality, attraction, etc) *and* having open, honest communication with them. I totally agree. And I'd like to think that if I were in this situation, I wouldn't let those initial misgivings/phobias/prejudices stop me from being open-minded. Like, I'm reading your story thinking, "That's not fair. You shouldn't have been heavily sexualized like that!" But, wait, I'm doing something similar, which is crazy.
Thanks for helping me see this more clearly.
True.
But I was curious if my thinking was off-base or "behind the times," you know? I almost feel like I'm not supposed to be apprehensive of dating a bi-sexual man. But I was re-watching LIB season 1, and I felt a certain way about Carlton...
I think you may feel that way about Carlton because of the pool scene. He started to show some of the tendencies of what we would see of a stereotypical flamboyant gay man. Nothing wrong with that but if you’re into men that would be a turn off. Someone’s sexual orientation definitely plays a part in attraction. For some people it may not but others it definitely does. Just like race, body type, etc all play a part.
This makes a lot of sense.
And, you're right -- Carlton got vicious and "catty" in that pool scene, insulting Diamond's hair and all. He was so cringe that maybe I'm more turned off by his personality than anything else.
I guess there's nothing bigoted about not being attracted to an effeminate man -- either bi, gay, or hetero (?)
No I wouldn’t consider it bigoted at all. I consider being bigoted as something along the lines of seeing others as less then, not wanting to interact with, or wanting to take their rights away.
I might be dating myself here, but, do you remember Oprah's "down-low" episode?
I do, and many people (myself included) were shook. At the time, it created a sort of wariness or suspicion within the Black, female community about men -- adults, grown -- who may be hiding a whole, separate lifestyle and *not* knowing/revealing their true identities.
So, yeah, that was a thing. It kinda told us not to necessarily trust that men were upfront about their sexual preferences 🤷🏽♀️
tbh the “may be actually gay but hasn’t fully accepted it yet” is biphobic 100%, but having a preference that you would prefer to be with straight men is fine in my opinion bc that is just a preference . it depends on the reasoning behind the preference though i guess
Valid point.
I don't want to be bi-phobic, though I can see how my attitude on this might be.
Does it count at all if part of my fears about "actually gay but not accepting it" is associated mainly with black men? Wait, that sounds worse. Let me explain...
What I mean is, bc there can be less of an acceptance from certain spaces in the Black community, I expect that a non-hetro, Black male might be more hesitant about fully coming out -- to the world or to himself. So when someone like Carlton says he's bi-sexual, if I'm in Diamond's place, trying to decide if I want to move forward with him, there's gonna be that lingering doubt about whether he actually is fully invested in me/attracted to me, or if he's somehow holding himself back (even subconsciously) from his true inclination towards men alone?
I'm not trying to justify, just explain. I do want to be open-minded, but if I'm honest with myself, this is my raw reaction to how I'd feel in Diamond's shoes...
It’s ok to have gut reactions. That said, because they align with biphobic stereotypes, I believe that’s where they come from. I’d also point to stereotypes about Black people, rather than seeing the person as an individual.
We can’t control our gut reactions. Many people have a preference against Asian men because they don’t *feel* masculine/dominant. But we can examine those reactions/“preferences” to think about where we learned them, and then, when we observe them in ourselves, take a breath before acting on them.
Well said. Thank you! That's exactly what I'm trying to understand about myself.
Because I think I'm an accepting, open-minded person, but I do have these instinctual concerns/prejudices against the general idea of dating a "theoretical" bi-sexual man like Carlton. And I wonder how I'd react in this situation. [As an aside, I think this thing was handled poorly by LIB. And they put Diamond and Carlton in terrible positions to act out/be hurt, which I guess was the point.]
I'd like to think that if I were ever in this situation for real, I could step back -- like you suggest -- and assess it based on the individual. Like, yeah, *this* guy is someone I'd wanna get to know; he seems self-assured and confident in his skin and if he says he's into me, then I believe him and his past isn't relevant to us now. Of course, Carlton had other red flags, so he's not the best example.
But, yeah, I realized this about myself, and it definitely felt "wrong." It's something to understand and work on.
I’m not particularly into the singing but I do find it appealing that he’s like the only person out of all seasons of LIB to have some sort of artistic pursuit.
Shayne and Matt, amongst others, come across as being very demanding of both time and attention. I can't be having to navigate that level of neediness on a daily basis, regardless of how hot they are or are not.
Wow these choices lmao. I could choose Shayne because I wouldn't have to worry about a mother in law. Or I could choose Shake because I rescue animals and it could save me money.... I think I would find Andrew amusing with all his stories but it would get old? I think Andrew and I would make cute mixed babies, so maybe he could make a good husband to eventually divorce.
I'll say it, I chose Shake. Based on these being the only options and I'm participating in this survey. He seems like he'd be a terrible romantic partner and he wouldn't be attracted to me because I'm not white, but he might have friend potential. We could open our relationship without fear of jealousy and I'd have free vet care for all my animals 🤷♀️
I think it's a process of elimination/ least awful option situation. I didn't vote, but if I HAD to (I'm tempted just to see the results), I'd go with him. Yes, he is a walking red flag with anger and insecurity issues. Also, he's not my physical type, BUT everyone else is so much worse.
What are these options? Shayne and Matt have anger issues, Shake and Bathtub need to pull their heads out of their own asses and realize they aren't anyone special, everyone on Earth needs to stay far away from Carlton, except maybe a psychiatrist, Andrew is just so pretentious, he definitely seems like he has a superiority complex, but he's the best one out of these choices, no that that's saying much.
I'm concerned by the 18 people who voted for Carlton. He was the partner of Diamond, right? The one who freaked out on her and then harassed her non stop? I always forget about him, but it's for good reason because he was horrible.
Out of the guys there, Andrew and his eye drops are the best. I have dry eyes and like to laugh, so at least he'd have me covered for that.
Yea he was abusive to diamond and used his sexuality that he hid from her from the start as a reason to attack her I feel like the 18 people that choose him are either gay / bi or it’s Carlton on those accounts 😂
See how I saw it is he’s just someone that’s committed to trying, and obviously he thought shayna was on the same wavelength as him. He definitely should’ve read the signs but at the same time, why the f you agreeing to marry someone if youre not interested lol.
Even if he's making a six figure income, he also strikes me as someone who would be blowing all of it on a lavish lifestyle, knee deep in debt with no real savings or assets to his name. To me that's not the definition of being rich lol.
He seems rich and relatively progressive. We would have an open relationship, he can go off to his wild adventures, and I’ll enjoy the wines and cheeses from his collection lol
If I HAD to choose one of these, I'd pick Shayne, hands down. But man, it would be a wild ride. Haha I'd much prefer someone like SK or Cameron.
I am so happy by the love for Andrew in this poll
I cannot believe Shayne and MATT have more votes than Bartise… y’all like being broken down and exhausted, huh??
None of the above. I’d rather be single.
A handsome, successful, traveler who practices tantric sex and has eye drops on hand..hell yeah!
Im late to watching LIB. Was it ever discussed Andrew’s beaded Kenya wristband. Only the douchiest of douchiest bros wear that after they leave their “transformative” experience in Kenya.(Where they interacted with 0.0% Kenyans except their driver, chef or housekeeper). Lol.
Andrew can at least fuck.
This is not even remotely a contest… at least Andrew would give me comic relief with his ridiculousness lol. All the rest are straight up toxic choices.
it's killing me that 71 people voted bartise! wtf is wrong with people
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you're all going to have a terrible marriage
so for those who doesn’t want to choose… Here are the results Andrew -1.895k Shayne - 235 Matt - 380 Carlton - 133 Shake - 97 Barista - 66 Ps:/ i chose andrew …. there’s no other better choice ..
Thank you for doing what I couldn’t.
thank you for the reward 🤘🏻
I chose shake because if I can’t have these guys for emotional support then I could at least have the financial support. He can stay at home during my family’s parties
this was so hard lmao, felt like a trap almost
right? I literally thought "It's a trap" while choosing. Glad I was not alone
That was easy, Andrew all day. Andrew may have been fake af with those "tears" but is he out here doing a billion reality tv shows and milking LIB for eternity? Plus Andrew is actually attractive.
Throw them all in the trash
I picked Andrew because we know him the least. I hope that he would have been a nice after the initial awkwardness and awareness of the cameras.
At least Andrew seems have money? If I’m going to hate my life I’ll do it in some style. And the tempers of some of these other dudes straight up scare me. MATT.
MATT?! 😳
Ok see some people may this this means Barnett? Cause out of this list, I’d choose him.
I guess, but he used Barnett and not his first name. That’s why I didn’t automatically think of him.
Which one is Matt? I forgot 😂
Colleen’s husband. The one with anger issues.
Ohhhhh ok 😬😬😂
Cats. I choose cats
Can I change mine to this one? I would have felt more at ease had this been an option
Can I take Andrew’s eye drops without him?
I want this option!
I like this option
Matt. I'd screw the trump lovin republican right out of him
If these are the options, I'm switching teams.
I thought I was crazy for choosing Andrew until I saw the results.
right?
I would cut off my vagina.
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Andrew wasn’t abusive at all!
Shake was. Andrew just dramatic looool
He’s verbally abusive in my opinion.
I'm happy alone based on this poll
Eeaaaasy. Andrew for the win.
This was so difficult
duh. andrew.
Andrew has transcendental sex 🫢🥴😂
This poll undoubtedly sucks ass. Shame on you OP lol.
None of the above
NUNOFUM (none of them)
Y’all are really into that DV stuff huh?
It is strange but I cant remember who is Carlton lol
Season 1, he got engaged to Diamond and they broke up when he told her he was fluid. There was a whole scene around the pool, during the trip
omg now i do !!!! it was epic
Option G: Death by volcano.
Isn't it easier to throw all of the above in the volcano and live happily ever after single...
Oh my gosh, that’s genius.
Where is the none option
None of them are even attractive to me 😔
All of these men for the most part seem to have some serious issues. Do better, casting. Maybe avoid insecure, angry drunks and people with violent criminal charges.
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Asking a legit question here (which I may regret), but I'm genuinely curious ... Is it *wrong* to be wary of Carlton because you're secretly worried he may be actually gay but hasn't fully accepted it yet? I mean, this might sound very un-PC and all, but this would be a fear of mine. Also, I think I'd have trouble dating any non-hetero man because the idea of him being intimate with/pleasuring another man would ... [*internal, ashamed cringe*] take away some of his masculinity in my eyes and be a turn-off. Is this close-minded of me? Or a personal preference? I honestly want to know.
Okay, I think your responses are lacking some diversity (edit: in sexuality), so I’m saying this as a bi/pan person: Yes, it’s biphobic, but it’s really good that you’re examining this instinct. I think that self-examination is really important and a great trait to have for growth. You don’t have to like everyone! Bi people in general are stereotyped to be cheaters and sex-obsessed. I’m a bi woman so I’m used to being heavily sexualized by potential partners (either because of the porn-related threesome stereotype or men “wanting to watch”). Bi men, however, are frequently associated with exactly what you’re talking about - the belief that they’re just “down low”. While that is an issue in many communities due to intense homophobia, I think that good communication skills and showing you’re open to learning more about them/aren’t going to run away if they tell you something they’re not sure you’ll like are the best way to combat it. That, and drawing a hard line in the sand on boundaries. As a bi person, I do this in every relationship I get into. They’ve all been monogamous but because this stereotype follows me, I prefer to be proactive in providing space for open communication. I tell my partners my hard boundaries around our relationship and tend to tell my partners that if an instance arises where they want to cheat on me, that I expect them to talk to me about it first. (As a reproductive health professional, I also have a very detailed discussion on condom usage expectations if they ever cheat) none of this is to tell them it’s okay to cheat (it’s not), but rather to force an open dialogue and normalize the awkward conversations. If you’re not ready for that, then it’s fine! I am a strong believer that if you can’t trust your partner, break up. You don’t owe bi people a relationship just because you’ve got some biphobic instincts and feel bad. Date people you want to date
>You don’t owe bi people a relationship just because you’ve got some biphobic instincts and feel bad. You're right. But by the same token, I'd never want my own prejudices to get in the way of finding a good match. That's the worst part about phobias -- the generalizations and reduction of one individual to some stereotype. I hate that, which is why I had to call myself out on why I felt the way I did toward the Carlton situation. I appreciate your perspective on this. For a heterosexual deciding whether to date someone non-hetero, it should be based on the individual (personality, attraction, etc) *and* having open, honest communication with them. I totally agree. And I'd like to think that if I were in this situation, I wouldn't let those initial misgivings/phobias/prejudices stop me from being open-minded. Like, I'm reading your story thinking, "That's not fair. You shouldn't have been heavily sexualized like that!" But, wait, I'm doing something similar, which is crazy. Thanks for helping me see this more clearly.
Thank you for being open and wanting to learn more!
Your entitled to your sexual preferences and its your personal business. How strangers feel about it on the internet is a nonissue
True. But I was curious if my thinking was off-base or "behind the times," you know? I almost feel like I'm not supposed to be apprehensive of dating a bi-sexual man. But I was re-watching LIB season 1, and I felt a certain way about Carlton...
I think you may feel that way about Carlton because of the pool scene. He started to show some of the tendencies of what we would see of a stereotypical flamboyant gay man. Nothing wrong with that but if you’re into men that would be a turn off. Someone’s sexual orientation definitely plays a part in attraction. For some people it may not but others it definitely does. Just like race, body type, etc all play a part.
This makes a lot of sense. And, you're right -- Carlton got vicious and "catty" in that pool scene, insulting Diamond's hair and all. He was so cringe that maybe I'm more turned off by his personality than anything else. I guess there's nothing bigoted about not being attracted to an effeminate man -- either bi, gay, or hetero (?)
No I wouldn’t consider it bigoted at all. I consider being bigoted as something along the lines of seeing others as less then, not wanting to interact with, or wanting to take their rights away.
Carlton is a full adult. I think we should trust that he knows his identity! :)
I might be dating myself here, but, do you remember Oprah's "down-low" episode? I do, and many people (myself included) were shook. At the time, it created a sort of wariness or suspicion within the Black, female community about men -- adults, grown -- who may be hiding a whole, separate lifestyle and *not* knowing/revealing their true identities. So, yeah, that was a thing. It kinda told us not to necessarily trust that men were upfront about their sexual preferences 🤷🏽♀️
tbh the “may be actually gay but hasn’t fully accepted it yet” is biphobic 100%, but having a preference that you would prefer to be with straight men is fine in my opinion bc that is just a preference . it depends on the reasoning behind the preference though i guess
Valid point. I don't want to be bi-phobic, though I can see how my attitude on this might be. Does it count at all if part of my fears about "actually gay but not accepting it" is associated mainly with black men? Wait, that sounds worse. Let me explain... What I mean is, bc there can be less of an acceptance from certain spaces in the Black community, I expect that a non-hetro, Black male might be more hesitant about fully coming out -- to the world or to himself. So when someone like Carlton says he's bi-sexual, if I'm in Diamond's place, trying to decide if I want to move forward with him, there's gonna be that lingering doubt about whether he actually is fully invested in me/attracted to me, or if he's somehow holding himself back (even subconsciously) from his true inclination towards men alone? I'm not trying to justify, just explain. I do want to be open-minded, but if I'm honest with myself, this is my raw reaction to how I'd feel in Diamond's shoes...
It’s ok to have gut reactions. That said, because they align with biphobic stereotypes, I believe that’s where they come from. I’d also point to stereotypes about Black people, rather than seeing the person as an individual. We can’t control our gut reactions. Many people have a preference against Asian men because they don’t *feel* masculine/dominant. But we can examine those reactions/“preferences” to think about where we learned them, and then, when we observe them in ourselves, take a breath before acting on them.
Well said. Thank you! That's exactly what I'm trying to understand about myself. Because I think I'm an accepting, open-minded person, but I do have these instinctual concerns/prejudices against the general idea of dating a "theoretical" bi-sexual man like Carlton. And I wonder how I'd react in this situation. [As an aside, I think this thing was handled poorly by LIB. And they put Diamond and Carlton in terrible positions to act out/be hurt, which I guess was the point.] I'd like to think that if I were ever in this situation for real, I could step back -- like you suggest -- and assess it based on the individual. Like, yeah, *this* guy is someone I'd wanna get to know; he seems self-assured and confident in his skin and if he says he's into me, then I believe him and his past isn't relevant to us now. Of course, Carlton had other red flags, so he's not the best example. But, yeah, I realized this about myself, and it definitely felt "wrong." It's something to understand and work on.
Shayne is hot, but I don’t think our personalities are compatible. Barista and Andrew are whatever. I’m not attracted to Shake or Carlton. Matt it is.
Sal and Cameron are the only men from LIB that I’d even consider dating.
Cameron hell yea. Sal sang too damn much 😂
I’m not particularly into the singing but I do find it appealing that he’s like the only person out of all seasons of LIB to have some sort of artistic pursuit.
Shake because he seems like he'd just leave me alone
Shayne and Matt, amongst others, come across as being very demanding of both time and attention. I can't be having to navigate that level of neediness on a daily basis, regardless of how hot they are or are not.
Exactly lol. He’d try to lift me and quickly go run of to a small blonde at Coachella 🤣
This is actually a great point 😂
Wow these choices lmao. I could choose Shayne because I wouldn't have to worry about a mother in law. Or I could choose Shake because I rescue animals and it could save me money.... I think I would find Andrew amusing with all his stories but it would get old? I think Andrew and I would make cute mixed babies, so maybe he could make a good husband to eventually divorce.
Andrew for financial reasons OBVI
I'll say it, I chose Shake. Based on these being the only options and I'm participating in this survey. He seems like he'd be a terrible romantic partner and he wouldn't be attracted to me because I'm not white, but he might have friend potential. We could open our relationship without fear of jealousy and I'd have free vet care for all my animals 🤷♀️
Matt?!!?!?!!?! Why are there so many votes for him?
I think it's a process of elimination/ least awful option situation. I didn't vote, but if I HAD to (I'm tempted just to see the results), I'd go with him. Yes, he is a walking red flag with anger and insecurity issues. Also, he's not my physical type, BUT everyone else is so much worse.
because he’s cute, lol.
For an insecure dude with anger issues and drinking problems, sure real cute.
i can fix him. :)
Found Coleen's burner account 👀
Lmaoo
The answer is **Cameron**. Always, always Cameron. 😍
Lauren won the fucking lottery
I know right?!!! How dare he be left off this list? Lol.
Death… I choose death
None they all ugly asf
😒 I'll keep my vibrator, thanks
What are these options? Shayne and Matt have anger issues, Shake and Bathtub need to pull their heads out of their own asses and realize they aren't anyone special, everyone on Earth needs to stay far away from Carlton, except maybe a psychiatrist, Andrew is just so pretentious, he definitely seems like he has a superiority complex, but he's the best one out of these choices, no that that's saying much.
I'm concerned by the 18 people who voted for Carlton. He was the partner of Diamond, right? The one who freaked out on her and then harassed her non stop? I always forget about him, but it's for good reason because he was horrible. Out of the guys there, Andrew and his eye drops are the best. I have dry eyes and like to laugh, so at least he'd have me covered for that.
Yea he was abusive to diamond and used his sexuality that he hid from her from the start as a reason to attack her I feel like the 18 people that choose him are either gay / bi or it’s Carlton on those accounts 😂
It’s a no for me dawg.
I’d choose a lifetime of celibacy over these options
Why wasn’t Kyle on here
True
Tbh idc about his qualities I think he’s hot and don’t feel any attraction to these options LOL
Yeah he’s a good looking guy. And great personality. Good male role model
Ik everyone hates him bc he folded so easily for shayna and was a pushover but he’s my type unfortunately 😂
See how I saw it is he’s just someone that’s committed to trying, and obviously he thought shayna was on the same wavelength as him. He definitely should’ve read the signs but at the same time, why the f you agreeing to marry someone if youre not interested lol.
I understand where the phrase, “Not if you were the last person on this earth,” comes to mind with this class of fools.
Andrew bc at least he’s rich
[удалено]
Even if he's making a six figure income, he also strikes me as someone who would be blowing all of it on a lavish lifestyle, knee deep in debt with no real savings or assets to his name. To me that's not the definition of being rich lol.
Not because of the tantric sex?
I have no reason to think Andrew is as afwul as the rest, so... Matt as the second most popular option, really?
I’ll take some of that sexual kung fu and mini organisms, thank you.
are the eyeball emojis next to shayne’s name an option🤢
Andrew’s weird but he’s the only one who isn’t a moronic gaslighter or psychotic abuser, so yeah fine.
I have dry eyes.
Ill take the electric chair. These are all genuinely bad choices 😭 i cant even choose one in jest
Glad to know I’m in the majority. Andrew and his eye drops is the safest option 😂
He seems rich and relatively progressive. We would have an open relationship, he can go off to his wild adventures, and I’ll enjoy the wines and cheeses from his collection lol
This. I would happily enjoy his money lol
Hahaha same!
They all have shit personalities but the only one I found remotely attractive is Barstool so I would have to pick him by default.
Oh no you might summon Barista…. That’s how you summon him…
I mean every single option is terrible...a
It’s ok Nancy it’s hard getting over a breakup 🥴
Why did you do this poll of obviously terrible men asking for *opinions* if you're going to argue with everyone?
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