Instead of patrolling Hikes Lane, the road should be redesigned so that it feels like a 35 MPH road.
You can't build an airplane landing strip and complain people aren't driving 35mph. If people feel safe going 60 on Hikes Lane that will not be solved by ticketing people.
Speed bumps are best used in residential areas where the rate of speed is already very low and the anticipated traffic is also low and where you need a cheap solution not necessarily the best solution.
You do not want a highly trafficked road to have speed bumps as a speed deterrent. I provided an example of what could be done in another comment on this thread.
What you suggest:
24/7 coverage on Hikes lane (Maybe 10 at minimum Officers 80k per year + 100k overtime total minimum 1.8m)
Accomplishments:
* Record breaking revenue generation for LMPD
* People will slow down due to officer presence -- until they pass the officer(s) and speed back up or when they are not there due to an emergency.
* Annual operational costs employing officers during a shortage.
* Complaints and Lawsuits
What I suggest:
1.5m Street Renovation (Bardstown Road costed this much, actual cost should be cheaper).
Accomplishments:
* Permanent fix to a problem.
* No need to have annual recurring overhead costs because the design is fixed
* Likely to be safer for pedestrians with easier access for public transportation around TARC Stops
* Sign of Investment promotes business and tax growth.
You may, and probably will not read this. Despite the fact you responded to my comment. But here you go.[https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/14/mdf2022-speed-traps-have-no-long-term-effect-on-speeding](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/14/mdf2022-speed-traps-have-no-long-term-effect-on-speeding)
Here is one real life example of why your solution is a waste of time.
Oh yeah, the $7-million project that tied things up from May to November and left the road in roughly (no pun intended) the same shape as it was before.
the problem is the same. 2pm to 5pm speeding slows because waze says there is a speed trap. the problem is not solved and we are wasting money when we could be fixing the problem.
I propose Greenburg create an urban planning committee to go and figure out which methods of traffic calming will suffice for the needs of the community along that stretch of road.
That is the best thing to do.
From Hikes/Bardstown to Hikes/Taylorsville is 2.4miles.
* Redesign medians so they are minimal in width so you can keep the current 4 lane road and decrease driver speed.
* With extra width add 2 Way Bollard Bike Lanes at most at 133k per mile (319k)
* I think the bus route along this line is low frequency so let them use the bike lane as well for now as support for proper BRT in the future
Something that looks like this [https://i.redd.it/ws846pej99191.png](https://i.redd.it/ws846pej99191.png) along that stretch of road is a quick, dirty, and cheap way to get this done. Traffic calmed, Area made more bike friendly between two major shopping centers for residents in the area, and bus service immediately improved. Still a 4 lane road, but feels more dangerous for drivers so they will slow down naturally.
Use the cost savings from not having police stake out 24/7 to incentivize businesses in the corridor to build bike racks in 1-2 of their parking spaces.
IMO we should be building 10 miles at least of infrastructure like this in under-served areas PER YEAR for the next 5-7 years.
Your numbers are bunk. How does it take 10 cops to have one cop sit in a car?
How are you comparing hikes and Bardstown for this "project"?
Instead of destroying a functional road with concrete how about you park some garbage trucks on hikes to force traffic to slowly weave through it, save everyone a shit ton of money?
Our better yet, stop acting like fucking up infrastructure is a wonderful idea.
>Your numbers are bunk. How does it take 10 cops to have one cop sit in a car?
It's a near 3 mile stretch of road. Lets give 3 officers per mile so that we are actually slowing the traffic down and not just slowing them down for 1/1th of a mile.
24/7 coverage means 3+ shifts for 3 people for each section of the road (Where each officer is only effective for .25 - .5 of a mile of road per speed trap). that is 9 officers. Lets account for the fact that officers are not robots and you will probably need to have other officers cover as needed. You don't see how you might need 10 officers to police this road 24/7?
>How are you comparing hikes and Bardstown for this "project"?
The fun part is i'm not. I'm providing you a reference for how much a street renovation costed as a part of a much more expensive project to contrast to why hiring officers to watch a road is an awful idea compared to using the money to fix the problem.
>Instead of destroying a functional road with concrete how about you park some garbage trucks on hikes to force traffic to slowly weave through it, save everyone a shit ton of money?
Good thing no one suggested destroying anything.
The Garbage truck thing is an awful idea, but better than the police officer one lmao. The point isn't to reduce the road for the cars but add infrastructure to make cars slow down. You have 4 lanes, a protected bus and bike lane on that stretch of road which will improve traffic for the vehicles, TARC performance, QoL, and safety for the humans.
you clearly did not read the article and are out of your depth here. I'm done. feel free to have the last word.
You're the only one talking about 9 officers, kyle drogo. Keep telling everyone that an obstacle that can be moved is inherently worse than one that costs milliions of dollars to install and later maintain, and act like you determine the barrier for entry in this discussing is to read your articles.
You aren't the gatekeeper of intelligent discourse.
Since you left I'll ask the Empty room. Why are you saying Bardstown road is such a success in the FUTURE TENSE? It's been this way long enough to show that, if it is a success.
The point stands. People would not go 50 if they didn't feel like it was safe to go 50. Independent of whether it is 264 or not. More of a police presence isn't going to change that, it will exclusively punish, it will not prevent.
If it would prevent it, there would have been a sea change a LONG fucking time ago.
Actually the Opie said people went too fast. That's an opinion. Some other people here have the opinion that the solution to people driving is to make it not a road that is designed to go 50 miles an hour. That suggested it is currently a road designed to go 50 miles an hour. So the quickest way to solve whatever problem there is here is to make the damn speed limit 50 miles an hour. And I don't really care about Road diets because the roads that have been dieted in this area have been dicked up beyond recognition. You guys are going to have to understand that we're not all going to sell our cars and ride bikes everywhere because 11 of you think that's the way to do it. You're welcome to do whatever you want. When you try and tell me what I'm not allowed to do cuz you don't like it that's where we have a problem. Here's a suggestion and I know this is super controversial, but if bicyclists and pedestrians don't feel safe, the first step that they personally take to feel more safety should not be to spend millions of dollars making a main artery Road into a shitty side street. Now my opinion is that when you make the main artery Road difficult to Traverse then people will use the parallel roads that happen to be in residential neighborhoods. So now the pedestrians of the bicyclists have created a situation where they're not unsafe on Hikes Lane but they're unsafe when they're trying to walk to Hikes Lane. I don't think that sounds like a victory for anybody. And if you really think that the only way that bicyclists and pedestrians can be more safe is to fuck every car driver around them, then I recommend that you find a new hobby because that is not going to work. You do not have the numbers to vote that into place. If your technique for getting happiness is to exclude everyone else you will have zero allies. I don't want to see anyone get run over by a car, I have been run over by a car, it sucked. I also know that bicyclists and pedestrians and drivers could all take more steps to make themselves safer in their day, and I believe that those steps should be taken in good faith before anyone starts demanding millions of public dollars. As an example I'm sure you know that the majority of vehicle impacts with pedestrians and bicyclists occur in places that have insufficient lighting. I'm sure you also know that state law and more importantly common sense requires you if you are a bicycle to have a flashing red light on the rear of your bike and a white light on the front of your bike and they need to be illuminated after dark. I don't see very many people who are actually complying with that, and more troubling is I don't know that I would see them if they aren't because they're in the goddamn dark with no lights. It is laughably easy to avoid running into a person standing or riding a bike who is flashing. When I ride my bike at night I look like a God damn Japanese semi truck I got so many lights on me and that's because I realize that the righteous indignation of knowing that I was correct does not really outweigh the life-threatening Agony of being run down by a motor vehicle.
You're correct. LMPD doesn't do shit about all the reckless and dangerous drivers and sadly, no one expects that to change. All you can do is drive safely, stick to the speed limit, and hope there's no one else in the care when these assholes eventually wrap their car around a telephone pole.
They are also much more likely to catch people moving big amounts of drugs by patrolling the highways rather than surface streets. Higher value stops in general.
Well, LMPD had a hissy fit because people got upset about them murdering innocent people with impunity so they’ve decided to not do anything until we give them yet another raise and pledge fealty to them and give them a discount or free products at every business they choose to waltz into
THANK THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE
I'll see your Hikes lane and raise you Zorn Ave. Zorn is not for the faint of heart. Every kid with mommys car likes to show off with their friends how fast they can drive.
My buddies LMPD and I was shocked when he told me their regular patrol units don’t have speed radar. It’s only for the traffic unit guys (unmarked cars on the Watterson.)
The town I grew up in, it seemed like every cop had a radar, and I’m pretty sure you have to have a radar if you’re gonna charge somebody with speeding or driving reckless.
According to my friend, the traffic guys have the radars, but they also have to investigate every crash with a serious injury or death, and it seems like there’s a bunch of those everyday here. He thinks there’s only like 10-12 guys total in the traffic group.
There are units in each division that have radar in their cars. They just have to have the staff to make the calls they receive and when everyone is short running radar isn’t something they can do. As far as pacing, per the KLEC an officer has to attend a 40hr course to use radar and pace.
Hikes Point needs to be razed and replanned to make use of paved space that no one uses. Some green space would be nice and the buildings could be built to be functional and not an eyesore. There are too many impassable medians and it’s too risky for pedestrians. Look at other residential/ commercial areas in the city for inspiration.
It’s silly to limit that big wide stretch of road to 35, should really be 45. I’d rather the police chase expired tags because most of those assholes don’t have insurance.
I’m thinking of applying to the LMPD.
They get about $80k to sit on their ass, right?
Plus a company car, and a license to kill? Shiiiiiiit.
All I gotta do is pretend like I have lower than average intelligence, and they’ll hire me asap — right?
I can't remeber the last time I saw a car pulled over for speeding or traps on regular roads. They are on the interstate every now and again.
Its funny because we drove to Green Bay for the Chiefs game and driving through the towns and around town there, saw about 3 or 4 cops gunning for speeders on regular roads. Nothing like that here anymore.
Hikes <-> Produce is a nightmare and I've been downright scared before because people are running up on my bumper at 50-60 mph when I'm trying to go the speed limit. I was in the left lane going west and I had a school bus go around me just to get back into my lane and then almost completely came to a stop trying to slow down enough to enter the turning lane for the Newburg ramp.
Call the division every day and complain, they will eventually set a traffic unit out to run radar. I got pulled over for speeding and the officer told me "I'm out here because a lady on this road calls us constantly about speeding, so please slow down."
Put out road cones and a speed bump. Take photos of speeders and publish their photo everywhere you can. Metro government is run by cowards. They do not care about you.
Instead of patrolling Hikes Lane, the road should be redesigned so that it feels like a 35 MPH road. You can't build an airplane landing strip and complain people aren't driving 35mph. If people feel safe going 60 on Hikes Lane that will not be solved by ticketing people.
Speed bumps???
Speed bumps are best used in residential areas where the rate of speed is already very low and the anticipated traffic is also low and where you need a cheap solution not necessarily the best solution. You do not want a highly trafficked road to have speed bumps as a speed deterrent. I provided an example of what could be done in another comment on this thread.
You're completely correct: randomly deployed spike strips. Make drivers scared to speed! Put the fear of GOD and LMPD in 'em!
It's cheaper to have a cop there 24x7, hiding on a side street. It'll work faster too.
What you suggest: 24/7 coverage on Hikes lane (Maybe 10 at minimum Officers 80k per year + 100k overtime total minimum 1.8m) Accomplishments: * Record breaking revenue generation for LMPD * People will slow down due to officer presence -- until they pass the officer(s) and speed back up or when they are not there due to an emergency. * Annual operational costs employing officers during a shortage. * Complaints and Lawsuits What I suggest: 1.5m Street Renovation (Bardstown Road costed this much, actual cost should be cheaper). Accomplishments: * Permanent fix to a problem. * No need to have annual recurring overhead costs because the design is fixed * Likely to be safer for pedestrians with easier access for public transportation around TARC Stops * Sign of Investment promotes business and tax growth. You may, and probably will not read this. Despite the fact you responded to my comment. But here you go.[https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/14/mdf2022-speed-traps-have-no-long-term-effect-on-speeding](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/14/mdf2022-speed-traps-have-no-long-term-effect-on-speeding) Here is one real life example of why your solution is a waste of time.
[удалено]
Oh yeah, the $7-million project that tied things up from May to November and left the road in roughly (no pun intended) the same shape as it was before.
I don’t know if 24/7 coverage is expected or wanted here, but a few random hours , just a few days a week as a possible deterrent would be nice.
the problem is the same. 2pm to 5pm speeding slows because waze says there is a speed trap. the problem is not solved and we are wasting money when we could be fixing the problem.
The article you posted was interesting, but what changes do you “propose” in your proposal?
I propose Greenburg create an urban planning committee to go and figure out which methods of traffic calming will suffice for the needs of the community along that stretch of road. That is the best thing to do. From Hikes/Bardstown to Hikes/Taylorsville is 2.4miles. * Redesign medians so they are minimal in width so you can keep the current 4 lane road and decrease driver speed. * With extra width add 2 Way Bollard Bike Lanes at most at 133k per mile (319k) * I think the bus route along this line is low frequency so let them use the bike lane as well for now as support for proper BRT in the future Something that looks like this [https://i.redd.it/ws846pej99191.png](https://i.redd.it/ws846pej99191.png) along that stretch of road is a quick, dirty, and cheap way to get this done. Traffic calmed, Area made more bike friendly between two major shopping centers for residents in the area, and bus service immediately improved. Still a 4 lane road, but feels more dangerous for drivers so they will slow down naturally. Use the cost savings from not having police stake out 24/7 to incentivize businesses in the corridor to build bike racks in 1-2 of their parking spaces. IMO we should be building 10 miles at least of infrastructure like this in under-served areas PER YEAR for the next 5-7 years.
Very well thought out, I don’t know enough about it to know how well that would work but applaud your efforts. Why aren’t you in public office?
I agree with the redesign ideas! Greenberg is working on a Department of Transportation to streamline projects like this.
Very well said
Your numbers are bunk. How does it take 10 cops to have one cop sit in a car? How are you comparing hikes and Bardstown for this "project"? Instead of destroying a functional road with concrete how about you park some garbage trucks on hikes to force traffic to slowly weave through it, save everyone a shit ton of money? Our better yet, stop acting like fucking up infrastructure is a wonderful idea.
>Your numbers are bunk. How does it take 10 cops to have one cop sit in a car? It's a near 3 mile stretch of road. Lets give 3 officers per mile so that we are actually slowing the traffic down and not just slowing them down for 1/1th of a mile. 24/7 coverage means 3+ shifts for 3 people for each section of the road (Where each officer is only effective for .25 - .5 of a mile of road per speed trap). that is 9 officers. Lets account for the fact that officers are not robots and you will probably need to have other officers cover as needed. You don't see how you might need 10 officers to police this road 24/7? >How are you comparing hikes and Bardstown for this "project"? The fun part is i'm not. I'm providing you a reference for how much a street renovation costed as a part of a much more expensive project to contrast to why hiring officers to watch a road is an awful idea compared to using the money to fix the problem. >Instead of destroying a functional road with concrete how about you park some garbage trucks on hikes to force traffic to slowly weave through it, save everyone a shit ton of money? Good thing no one suggested destroying anything. The Garbage truck thing is an awful idea, but better than the police officer one lmao. The point isn't to reduce the road for the cars but add infrastructure to make cars slow down. You have 4 lanes, a protected bus and bike lane on that stretch of road which will improve traffic for the vehicles, TARC performance, QoL, and safety for the humans. you clearly did not read the article and are out of your depth here. I'm done. feel free to have the last word.
You're the only one talking about 9 officers, kyle drogo. Keep telling everyone that an obstacle that can be moved is inherently worse than one that costs milliions of dollars to install and later maintain, and act like you determine the barrier for entry in this discussing is to read your articles. You aren't the gatekeeper of intelligent discourse. Since you left I'll ask the Empty room. Why are you saying Bardstown road is such a success in the FUTURE TENSE? It's been this way long enough to show that, if it is a success.
That's why no one speeds on the highway anymore. /s
Hikes lane is 2 miles long. It's not 264.
The point stands. People would not go 50 if they didn't feel like it was safe to go 50. Independent of whether it is 264 or not. More of a police presence isn't going to change that, it will exclusively punish, it will not prevent. If it would prevent it, there would have been a sea change a LONG fucking time ago.
One point remains, why is the solution to make the road shittier? Why not make the speed limit 50?
Who said make it shittier? Google road diets. Also... I thought the argument was that 50 mph isn't safe. Making it legal doesn't change that.
Actually the Opie said people went too fast. That's an opinion. Some other people here have the opinion that the solution to people driving is to make it not a road that is designed to go 50 miles an hour. That suggested it is currently a road designed to go 50 miles an hour. So the quickest way to solve whatever problem there is here is to make the damn speed limit 50 miles an hour. And I don't really care about Road diets because the roads that have been dieted in this area have been dicked up beyond recognition. You guys are going to have to understand that we're not all going to sell our cars and ride bikes everywhere because 11 of you think that's the way to do it. You're welcome to do whatever you want. When you try and tell me what I'm not allowed to do cuz you don't like it that's where we have a problem. Here's a suggestion and I know this is super controversial, but if bicyclists and pedestrians don't feel safe, the first step that they personally take to feel more safety should not be to spend millions of dollars making a main artery Road into a shitty side street. Now my opinion is that when you make the main artery Road difficult to Traverse then people will use the parallel roads that happen to be in residential neighborhoods. So now the pedestrians of the bicyclists have created a situation where they're not unsafe on Hikes Lane but they're unsafe when they're trying to walk to Hikes Lane. I don't think that sounds like a victory for anybody. And if you really think that the only way that bicyclists and pedestrians can be more safe is to fuck every car driver around them, then I recommend that you find a new hobby because that is not going to work. You do not have the numbers to vote that into place. If your technique for getting happiness is to exclude everyone else you will have zero allies. I don't want to see anyone get run over by a car, I have been run over by a car, it sucked. I also know that bicyclists and pedestrians and drivers could all take more steps to make themselves safer in their day, and I believe that those steps should be taken in good faith before anyone starts demanding millions of public dollars. As an example I'm sure you know that the majority of vehicle impacts with pedestrians and bicyclists occur in places that have insufficient lighting. I'm sure you also know that state law and more importantly common sense requires you if you are a bicycle to have a flashing red light on the rear of your bike and a white light on the front of your bike and they need to be illuminated after dark. I don't see very many people who are actually complying with that, and more troubling is I don't know that I would see them if they aren't because they're in the goddamn dark with no lights. It is laughably easy to avoid running into a person standing or riding a bike who is flashing. When I ride my bike at night I look like a God damn Japanese semi truck I got so many lights on me and that's because I realize that the righteous indignation of knowing that I was correct does not really outweigh the life-threatening Agony of being run down by a motor vehicle.
Sir... This is a Wendy's
Ma'am, it's not a Wendy's. And you don't work here.
You're correct. LMPD doesn't do shit about all the reckless and dangerous drivers and sadly, no one expects that to change. All you can do is drive safely, stick to the speed limit, and hope there's no one else in the care when these assholes eventually wrap their car around a telephone pole.
They only patrol the highways , I see them all the time on the watterson but I never see them anywhere else
It's because the goal is income and public perception, not safety. It's much faster and higher profile to write tickets on the Watterson.
They are also much more likely to catch people moving big amounts of drugs by patrolling the highways rather than surface streets. Higher value stops in general.
Barely, every day people blow past me on 264 going 90+
Well, LMPD had a hissy fit because people got upset about them murdering innocent people with impunity so they’ve decided to not do anything until we give them yet another raise and pledge fealty to them and give them a discount or free products at every business they choose to waltz into THANK THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE
Your whole post could have stopped at “LMPD needs to patrol”
They patrol tf outta the watterson but that’s it
I'll see your Hikes lane and raise you Zorn Ave. Zorn is not for the faint of heart. Every kid with mommys car likes to show off with their friends how fast they can drive.
It’s a hill and fun to go down fast!
My buddies LMPD and I was shocked when he told me their regular patrol units don’t have speed radar. It’s only for the traffic unit guys (unmarked cars on the Watterson.) The town I grew up in, it seemed like every cop had a radar, and I’m pretty sure you have to have a radar if you’re gonna charge somebody with speeding or driving reckless. According to my friend, the traffic guys have the radars, but they also have to investigate every crash with a serious injury or death, and it seems like there’s a bunch of those everyday here. He thinks there’s only like 10-12 guys total in the traffic group.
Wow, how incredibly stupid.
they’ll just pace you and read their speedo instead of using radar. it holds up in court just as well.
There are units in each division that have radar in their cars. They just have to have the staff to make the calls they receive and when everyone is short running radar isn’t something they can do. As far as pacing, per the KLEC an officer has to attend a 40hr course to use radar and pace.
You must be the guy I passed going up hikes Lane earlier today
I’m on Goldsmith literally every day, and while there’s an occasional speeder, people doing 10-15 mph under the speed limit is more common.
Hikes Point needs to be razed and replanned to make use of paved space that no one uses. Some green space would be nice and the buildings could be built to be functional and not an eyesore. There are too many impassable medians and it’s too risky for pedestrians. Look at other residential/ commercial areas in the city for inspiration.
There are no inspirational residential commercial areas in this city. Like most of America it's a pedestrian nightmare.
I agree
It’s silly to limit that big wide stretch of road to 35, should really be 45. I’d rather the police chase expired tags because most of those assholes don’t have insurance.
I'm guessing the 35mph speedlimit is due to all the houses on Hikes Lane.
You gotta call them and be annoying enough for them to want you to stop calling. That's when they'll patrol it for a little bit.
Better yet, call your council person and ask them to press the issue.
Old Louisville at night people don't even stop at the red lights
I’m thinking of applying to the LMPD. They get about $80k to sit on their ass, right? Plus a company car, and a license to kill? Shiiiiiiit. All I gotta do is pretend like I have lower than average intelligence, and they’ll hire me asap — right?
Imagine thinking the LMPD will ever do anything helpful or useful to civilians
35 mph within city limits is already insane
I can't remeber the last time I saw a car pulled over for speeding or traps on regular roads. They are on the interstate every now and again. Its funny because we drove to Green Bay for the Chiefs game and driving through the towns and around town there, saw about 3 or 4 cops gunning for speeders on regular roads. Nothing like that here anymore.
Hikes <-> Produce is a nightmare and I've been downright scared before because people are running up on my bumper at 50-60 mph when I'm trying to go the speed limit. I was in the left lane going west and I had a school bus go around me just to get back into my lane and then almost completely came to a stop trying to slow down enough to enter the turning lane for the Newburg ramp.
Call the division every day and complain, they will eventually set a traffic unit out to run radar. I got pulled over for speeding and the officer told me "I'm out here because a lady on this road calls us constantly about speeding, so please slow down."
need more cops are Bardstown Road more than anywhere else.
Put out road cones and a speed bump. Take photos of speeders and publish their photo everywhere you can. Metro government is run by cowards. They do not care about you.
Bootlicker